The marching band has been suspended from performing since Robert champions death now as Jason mentioned both he and Brianna are believed to belong to this subgroup in the band called the red Dawgs with the red dog order which is made up of band members from Georgia there there are other groups each kind
Of enforcing its own brand of discipline each kind of fraternity unto itself let’s talk about it more with Professor Ricky Jones director of the Center on race and inequality at the University of Louisville and author of black haze violent sacrifice and manhood in black greek-letter fraternities also joining
Us CNN analyst Roland Martin so professor a University like like Florida AMM they say they have this no hazing policy but clearly it’s an open secret that this is happening how much does a school do they know about what’s going on how much do they care about actually
Stopping it well I won’t say how much they care about it but let’s cut cut to the chase everybody at that school from the band director to the students to the administrators all the way to the president they know that this is a practice that goes on in these bands it
Also goes on and gret black Greek letter organizations which the bands are mimicking they’re very clear on that when they say they don’t know about it they’re either lying or they should be fired for negligence this is going on throughout the south to HBCUs is going on and predominately white universities
Where they’re black Greek letter organizations clearly the policies do not work and you’re having people injured throughout around the country and you’re having people killed and so what the bands what other organizations are really saying to these schools and these administrators is this is the way
We do things this is the way we’ve always done things and this is the way we’re going to continue to do things and so as an administrator or even an elected official in a state that’s concerned about this the question is what are you going to do with these
Organizations once you take that into account so role and what can be done is this something that’s just existed through you know through the years at these schools and is always going to exist well first of all with all due respect to Professor I think you have to
Broaden this conversation it goes beyond HBCUs it goes beyond black leather fraternities and sororities look I’m a graduate of Texas A&M University two years ago two members of our Texas A&M Corps cadets were charged for hazing in 1984 a corps cadet actually died of going through some exercises what you
Have here so you have a historically white fraternities and sororities we have hazing as well hazing is about culture it is about institutions where you largely have young folks who are in control these institutions and so they’re doing what they what they need to do you have two things going on
You have also alumni members graduate members who have a belief that if you want to go through what I went through I have a great appreciation of you as a member so if you don’t go through it then I don’t regard you in the same way
So that kind of peer pressure is applied I steal people right now my Facebook and Twitter page saying that we’ll have you you’re a paper member of a fraternity if you didn’t go through that sort of test that I went through what what is needed is obviously for peers you can have all
The rules in place but an assay but you have to have peers who are saying I cannot allow this because you’re not going to tarnish our reputation and put us in jeopardy by your actions that’s the most important aspect of this professor do you believe hazing is worse in in
African American colleges and fraternities than it is in non predominately African American ones yes and that’s what I was about to say with all due respect to rolling I’m not saying the hazing does not exist in other organizations but but the physical brand of hazing that we encountered I’ve
Been researching this for over 20 years at this point I attended the u.s. Naval Academy before I transferred to Morehouse College so I went through the plebe experience I went through the fraternity experience and that I’m a member of Kappa Alpha side what you’re seeing and yes you do have hazing in
White groups but you find a lot of alcohol abuse and pranks going on in those groups there are no student registered student organizations at HBCUs or at predominantly white schools where we with with the frequency that we see with this find the levels of physical abuse in black Greek letter
Organizations and an HBCU day well is it just we just don’t find it but wait hold professor are you saying that the for the bands at a school like Florida am that that that behavior is sort of migrated from or been learned from the fraternity and the band is kind of
Mirroring that fraternity yes because at HBCUs if you go to any college campus around this country the most popular people are usually the athletes and the fraternity members returning some the Greeks if you go to HBCUs you have a third element there you have athletes
But to a much lower level than other PW eyes you have have Greeks and you have band members people don’t go to HBCU games and see the football game they go see go to see the band and let me be clear I’m not saying this happens at all HBCUs and all
HBCU bands it is predominant at HBCUs where the bands are a very desirable commodity the FAMU Southern’s Jackson states of the world and this is why you know I work with Frank Deford on that story on HBO last year and there was an incredible blowback from the black
Community accusing the people at HBO of prejudice and myself will be a missing forum and now we have somebody dead and I said then it’s not a question of win it’s a question of a question of if it’s a question of when somebody else will be
Angela killed and that’s what we just in it and legend showed me where our viewers are HBCU is a historically black colleges universities and I think you guys predominately white institution I understand for me this is not a debate about an HBCU predominate white institution I’m looking at a story right
Now for the Brian conversation eagle where in 2002 from Calvary members the Texas A&M Corps cadets beat six six students with ax handles and use horse manure and water on students at misbehave so you know what Texas A&M predominate by institution my point is regardless of whether you’re predominately white institution or HBCU
What is required to confront hazing you clearly have to have state laws where people understand you could go to jail if you’re engaging this behavior but secondly and most importantly you have to have individuals who say we’re not going to allow this culture to go forward when I pledged in the spring of
1989 Alpha Phi Alpha I made it clear to my flag brothers I’m not getting beat by somebody it’s not going to happen but here’s what was interesting when I went to my national convention that summer and we talked about hazing I had some brothers in the chapter who said hey man
Don’t tell anybody you didn’t get hazed or you didn’t get any wood which is mean paddling because it may not come out right and I said wait a minute if we pledge me in the right way why should we not say it and so that is a
Culture you have to have people in bands it’s four turnings and sororities look at somebody else to say you might be my brother or my sister or a band member but you’re not going to do that you’re not going to jeopardize us by your actions that’s what it’s required and we
Need young people coming in these bands saying I’m not taking a beating so simply because I want to play an instrument this is also trickling down to the high school level how do I know Anderson because I went through this in 1988 for what some folks said you didn’t get
Beat but cuz you’re in the band I said no I’m not it’s not going to happen professor and I’ve gone through stuff with again with all due respect Rolla none of that has worked none of that has worked not policy changes not this approach to individual psychology the
Point is these students want to belong and this is a culture now do agree we’re not fundamentally disagreeing but the culture is so deeply entrenched that there is no way to dismantle it so this is the argument that I’m making it not many people are making this argument I
Am simply saying that no policy no laws remember hazing is a felony in the state of Florida I had some of my fraternity brothers in this very at this very same school go to jail a few years ago because of hazing it cannot be stopped so the next question is when are
University officials and in legal officials going to take steps to disband these organizations across the board not just it as I said because in our society right now bird there is no other option follow me here in our society burglaries homicides take place we have deterrence
As a part of that so for some folks a death penalty life imprisonment the reality is when you have individuals we can talk about police brutality where people protect their own police forces we have a natural thing a way of life in our country where we protect
Institutions people are afraid to be a whistleblower or being ostracized by the people in the corporation rapid I’m saying is you got to have procedures in place you might not say I can’t end it all but you can least stop a lot of it
If you take a hard line to say you got to disband the organization exactly they’ve taken they’ve taken hard lines since policy changes in 1990 through our Penn Hill in a different school with HBCU bands it simply has not worked so what are the enrolled for solos families
For system with potala t that’s apples it has apples and oranges I’m saying we cannot let emotion get in the way of the facts and the facts it don’t matter that nobody has been able to stop this today and so if we want to save black lives in these organizations and utter lies
Period get rid of these organ but this is a particularly black problem no it’s the last manners ourselves college campuses absolutely Allen black green we’re gonna not not in this level two predominant white schools I pretty much know I wanted to vote I appreciate both your perspectives I want
To continue this conversation because it’s a really good one an important one to have we will have you on both again professor Jones thank you really interesting points Roland Martin as well
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