All right serious and silliness outcasts have a return uh James I want to pronounce your last name right much deetto is that right yeah dto deetto okay sorry about that but everybody calls you mooch correct so last time you were on we had a pretty good interview and uh a lot of people
Saw it but this time it’s a little bit different because uh you wrote a book and I want them to have you on and talk about talk about this book so the book is called the WR of my life and Memoir Justin mooch deetto what um what made you write the
Book um well so I started doing that kind of podcast stuff you know I had my own YouTube channel that’s right and I think we talked about it briefly before but my goal of my YouTube channel was to kind of tell my story but also you know
How it intersected with uh other people so I’d have some guests on like the singer from my band and but it was all it was all stuff that you know I’d done in my youth or or had had to do with Motorcycle Club stuff and there was a
Lot of interest in you know just things I’ve done and kind of my story and um when I was in Oregon i’ you know i’ been arrested a few times back in the club days and there was this one journalist who was the main one that was covering
All my stories and he had gotten out of Journalism and started writing books and so he had mentioned us potentially doing a book and so you know I started thinking about it um deciding if it was something I wanted to do I was no longer
In the club so there was no rules that I couldn’t do it so there was really nothing no reason not to um and then uh it was kind of a difficult process initially with this author because he had a lot of other stuff going on and he
Does like a lot of True Crime type stuff and then he started getting into fiction so he didn’t really have a ton of time and so my friend Tom D blast had a book out he’s like a big Nam Jiu-Jitsu guy from out there by you he’s in out of New
Jersey and he he has a memoir out so I was just kind of picking his brain about you know what the process was like how did it go for him and uh he just hooked me up with his with his publishing comp he was like hey here’s the publicist
Maybe they’d be interested in your story so we did a meeting and they offered me a book deal and we hit the ground running okay very cool very cool how are sales going because it re only recently came out what a couple weeks ago yeah it
Came out on the 7th so I don’t have access like the actual numbers yet um but you know Amazon does like the different rankings and it’s been uh number one in motorcycles category it was number one in Social Work category it changes hourly but it’s been it’s
Been right up there pretty high the highest it’s been out of all books which is like 150,000 books or something it’s been it was at a thousand um so I think you know sounds like it’s doing really well it definitely sounds like it’s doing really well so for those of you
That those people that haven’t seen our former interview or uh your YouTube why don’t you give a breakdown about um how you got into the biker clubs biker culture and then how you got away from it okay yeah so you know I I grew up with an identical twin brother um and
We’ve talked about it before but you know I think I kind of had a search for identity so so growing up you know I was on a lot of team sports did a lot of wrestling um from there I got into like the punk rock hardcore scene and ended
Up joining like an anti-racist skin head gang and I spent several years doing that um and then when I first started riding motorcycles man I I was hooked um I loved motorcycles I loved riding I started riding with people and going on road trips um and I’ve just always kind
Of been that guy that if I’m if I’m doing it I want to be in the best group there is out there so so um I started hanging out with clubs and kind of moved my way through a few clubs until I I got into the Mongols which ended up being a
Really good fit for me in a club that I really enjoyed and I ended up being in for close to 15 years I I retired just after 14 years of active membership was in leadership for a little over or like National leadership for a little over 10
Um so I stayed pretty active in that club life and then you know towards the end I think Generations you know I talk about it towards the end of my book but you know Generations are changing and the club the land caping clubs are changing um and it just started to feel
My heart wasn’t as into as it used to be and I was thinking there was a lot of Club politics going on there had been a national leadership change and it just kind of felt like the time to step away um you know I had I had spent a lot of
Time in the club I felt like I did a lot for the club I had a really good time and I enjoyed all my time in the club but it wasn’t really aligning with my values and morals anymore um you know in in that time I’d gotten a master’s
Degree in social work and I’d really gotten into becoming a mental health therapist and I work with at risk that are on pear probation so um I was really kind of diving more into into my work and my career you know I got married um
Two years ago and so right I was right around the time I left the club too and so there was just the focus of my life kind of shifted you know okay now you were not always in in the Mongols there was a a previous Club you were in as
Well right yeah so when I first started coming around motorcycle clubs I was hanging out with a local Club in Portland called The Outsiders um I ended up prospecting for them but I ended up moving to Nevada for work and and to get just to get out of Oregon in general um
And when I got to Nevada I joined a club called the Vos which um they’re a pretty well-known major club now at the time they were still well known and they were bigger but they weren’t as big as they are now um and I spent close to two
Years with them and I I just think I probably jumped in too quick I was a young impulsive kid and I they had like The Outsiders and and the bikers I’d seen in Oregon were like uh older guys like a different generation than me right and and I was really enamored with
Club World stuff so I kind of looked past it I was just like wow this is crazy these dudes are club guys this is cool right but I I also got to that point where I looked around and I was like man other than like this club I
Don’t have a lot of C with these guys like we’re different eras we listen to different music we’re interested in different things they’re not people I probably and with all due respect but they’re not people I probably would have been friends with outside of club World
Um so when I met the Vos there was a lot of younger guys a lot of them were like skateboarders and next punk rockers and most of their focus was riding motorcycles and having good times so we had so I was drawn in pretty quick you
Know I was like oh I didn’t know this existed here’s you know this this big club and it’s people closer to my age and we’re just riding and partying and and you know everything you would think about when you think of motorcycle clubs um so I jumped in without knowing a lot
About him and I spent two years in it and although I had some good times in there and met some really good people the leadership of the club and the politics of the club was not something um that I agreed with and so I decided
It was you know it wasn’t the club for me and as I was doing that I was spending more more and more time with some Mongol and I’d met some Mongols and just seemed to hit it off better with them and so I I patched over to join the
Mongols and then like I said I ended up staying with them for almost 15 years oh wow okay when you originally prospected for the Mongols I mean I apologize for The Outsiders did that did you have to prospect for each and every Club you were in or no I only prospected for The
Outsiders um and and never made it to full patch like I said I’d moved before really okay yeah because I I wasn’t in long enough to get there like I I’d hung around for a while then I prospected for a couple months but then I I was moving
Um and when I moved for work they they put me on what they called like an inactive Prospect status which I I don’t think it’s necessarily a thing but what what they were saying was you know you’re moving for work so if you decide to come back you can pick up where you
Left off so I still had some ties to them and they had uh like some some other because they were like a really old school club from the 60s they didn’t claim to be 1centers at the time um but there’s like a network of old school clubs that stick together you know
Because they’re all been around forever they’re not major clubs they’re not everywhere so they you know do a lot of events and runs and parties together okay and they had some friends down there in Nevada that they’d asked me to hook up with or link up with and that’s
What kind of brought me back into that scene in Nevada too okay um but when I joined the vagos I was actually offered a full patch a because I already prospected for a club even though I didn’t make it and B it was a a charter
Member of a new chapter so the the Reno chapter was splitting and caring starting a chapter called Border Town and so as essentially coming in as a as a charter member so you know was kind of skirting the rules essentially but I was coming in so that way I came in without
Prospecting and then with with the Mongols um it was a direct patch over as well and I was also same thing I was I was starting in a new state there was no other Mongols in Oregon there was no mongle chapters in Oregon when we started so there was really no one to
Prospect for essentially um ah okay and then I I came in with the the Mongols have a thing called a a p patch or probationary patch and they’ll do it like if you’re starting a new chapter or just for different reason but um so it’s it’s not the same as prospecting but
You’re a probationary member for a year so you still don’t have the full privileges of a full patch member um you know you’re not being ran like a prospect but you know you’re still helping at events you know doing security and stuff like that so although
I wasn’t a prospect I was still a probationary member for a year when I first came in can you discuss what prospecting was like for The Outsiders Yeah man so it was actually a pretty cool experience it I didn’t know anything about that world right and I
Think a lot of people that don’t they think prospecting is like uh you know for lack of better term [ __ ] work right you hear all this like they’re getting talked down to and running errands and you know all these types of things and so I really wasn’t sure to what to
Expect um The Outsiders are really righteous club they’re very old school but they’re very about Brotherhood and they have a rule where there’s nothing two brothers can’t sit down and work out so they’re not allowed to fight each other so they’re they’re not abusing their prospects in that manner and I I think
The goal was what I at least from what I saw the goal was to be teaching the history and the protocol of the club not to humiliate somebody um you know there would be times where they’d have you do push-ups or you know just silly like historical stuff right like fraternity
Style stuff right but no one would ever ask you to do anything illegal or anything like that it was mainly helping out so like I worked uh from 7 to 4:00 during the day and as soon as I got off work I’d go down to the clubhouse and
Check in usually mop the floors clean wipe down the bar you know check the bar stock and then if there was a member there or when memb started showing up after work you know I’d serve them drinks empty the asteray and then if they wanted to go ride I’d hop in the
Pack and go ride and stand outside do security or sometimes go inside and Run Security um until you got cut loose but that was a daily thing you know you You’ either hang out there till they someone said hey we no one’s going out tonight
Go ahead and go home or if the guys are going out you go out until they say hey it’s time to go home um and then when they had you know events and parties you’re manually work in the bar or security out front um you know running
Trash out stuff like that so you know you’re responsible for caring stuff that anybody might need so like breakdown kit tools cigarettes lighters um so that you know someone could say Prospect you got a lighter or you know so so it was more of like a you’re you’re proving your
Worth but you’re also learning the history and protocol of the club so a lot of the times the older members would sit down and say oh do you know why you’re supposed to be doing this because of this or you know or we’d visit other club houses and and an old school member
Would tell me about the history with that club and um how to act in club houses so it was a really big learning experience more than it was like a fraternity Prett hazing MH and you know I didn’t see a lot of it in the Vos necessarily because I don’t think you
Know I was only in for two years but the Mongols were very very similar um and especially when I got into leadership um my goal was the whole point of prospecting should be to teach somebody something right and and you want the best guy for the job so if we’re wanting
To get well respected you know the local tough guys or the guys from the local street gangs or whatever but if if you’re wanting to get these well-respected dudes that already have a reputation for themselves they’re not going to want to come in and get treated
Like a [ __ ] for lack of better terms you know or they’re not going to um so that’s not the goal the anything that we were asking prospects to do should be there should be a reason for it it should be teaching them something or they’re helping out by like you know
Running and grabbing cigarettes or doing a beer r at store whatever so they’re either helping to prove their Worth or you know we’re teaching them something there’s there’s a reason they’re doing it so a lot of prospecting was was that just kind of un you know learning about
The club life learning about Club protocol how to address other patch holders how to address other clubs security is a huge thing learning how security Works um so it’s mainly a Proving Ground like it’s a chance to learn is this a good fit for me is it a
Good fit for the club do I fit in with these guys um I would say the biggest challenge to that stuff is that you know you have to be available 247 someone can call you and say hey we’re going out and you got to go um but a big misconception
Of that too is it’s the same when you’re a patch holder really so a lot of times you get these prospects be like oh I just can’t wait to get my patch thinking they’re going to have some sort of downtime and they realize it’s no different you get your P yeah you still
Got to be there yeah exactly how old were you when you prospected um I think I was about 25 24 25 it seems like a young man’s uh game if that makes sense because I’m 47 I’m thinking to myself I wouldn’t want to [ __ ] do that [ __ ]
Absolutely yeah well and you know I think it’s a little different nowadays because you know early years it was all young kids doing this stuff right like you look back in the 60s and 70s these were all you know early 20s guys doing it or guys coming back from the war but
They weren’t you know in their 40s um and then there’s a whole generation of older bikers right which was that generation I first started coming around so there was a lot of 40 and 50y old prospects but I think it’s kind of shifted back towards a lot more 20 and
30-y old guys are getting into it you know it’s kind of popular it’s popular in culture right now um but yeah I mean as a prospect ideally it’s the best done when you know you don’t have kids and a wife right right sorts of obligations
Now if you do that’s the perfect time to find the balance to say hey is this club for me can I balance my club life and also be a good dad and and you know a good good husband um so I mean there’s there obviously there’s two sides to it
But yeah it’s definitely a lot it’s a lot easier when you’re just a single guy in your 20s and you’re just like oh we want to go to the bar yeah we’re going out yeah right yeah yeah yeah yeah that would make sense absolutely why do you think there’s a Resurgence with the
Younger generation well I think it’s been back to being popular in mainstream media is a big one you know there’s all the TV shows and um you know so it’s it’s kind of like the cool hip thing I think you know motorcycles have started to be cool again in different scenes you know
There’s a lot of these Born Free and these big like these big events that are going on that are kind of like hipster type events um so I just think cultur it’s kind of like re Resurgence and you know people are always looking for something to do and and people to ride
With and I just think the more popular motorcycles get then people are going to want to be coming clubs and then Club Life’s Been So glorified all over TV and and the internet these days that I think it’s just drawn more people into it yeah I agree but I’m going to I’m going
To throw another theory at you and I want to know if you agree there’s been a huge push back to the feminization of the country if you will there has been podcasters and authors and YouTubers saying no no no no it’s okay to be a man it’s good to be a
Man it’s good to be part of a a group of guys and and and have guy time and it’s been this huge push back and I mean you can you know from obviously the biggest one is um uh the guy who just got arrested in Romania yeah Andrew Tate obviously and
And and I think he is a reaction to the you know feminization of you know the country where it’s like no you don’t need to be you know you need to be Stoke you need to be a man so on so forth do you think that has anything to do
Because when you think of biker clubs you think of the most masculine toughest righteous guys possible do you think that has anything to do with that I think that definitely plays a role and you know a lot of the rules in all motorcycle clubs is what more old school
Men are going to say that’s man stuff right like right be a man of your word show up on time look a man in his eyes when you shake his hands don’t don’t be disrespected never call another man a [ __ ] like you know stuff where it
Shouldn’t be New To You Right like we look at those rules are like oh yeah I mean if if you’re a righteous person you’ve probably been living your life like this anyways and so yeah I think it probably has that appeal I would say the negative side to it is you know we’re
Also now in a generation of people calling cops pressing charges um able to talk [ __ ] on the internet with no repercussions um a lot of people that are too scared to get punched in the face or they pulling G or whatever I just think that generation has changed
So I think there’s a lot of people joining motorcycles clubs as well to say hey do you know who I am puffy chested um which is the negative side of that masculinity stuff you talk about right they’re doing it because it gives them an image that they’ve wanted but they
Probably have never earned where I think in the earlier eras when a guy that joined you know one of the major motorcycle clubs he was likely the local tough guy in town already had a reputation people knew who he was you know what I mean you everyone had that
Neighborhood guy that kind of already had a rep and everyone’s like oh yeah mess with that guy that’s usually the guy that stepped up and joined one of those major clubs um and now because you know for whatever reason over the years motorcycle clubs just kind of sort of
Being in a race for membership and and expansion and you know there’s a bunch of different reasons for that but I think it started becoming where if you’re willing to do what they ask whether it’s prospecting or whatever they’ll essentially take anybody or at least not every chapter but most clubs
And we get a lot of these guys that don’t understand that type of stuff but they want the image that comes with it they want that masculine tough guy image but they’re not that guy so it’s kind of a catch 22 I guess is what I’m getting
At yeah you know i’ I’ve noticed that too uh it’s when you were in the club life did you have how can I explain this did you have those guys that were basically would throw down at any second as well as the guys that were masculine but reasonable
Or was everybody a psycho because uh the reputation of 1% motor clubs is everybody’s a lunatic right and no I mean you can’t have a bunch of lunatics and still will be on the streets without at least a couple reasonable Minds right right yeah yeah and so I I think at
Least you know I can’t speak to the earlier eras but in my era um especially early on I think everyone had a a a piece of being a lunatic in them but like for for me you know coming from the punk rock and skinn scene we were
Fighting and stuff all the time and actually being in a club calmed me down or slowed me down because I had to realize if I if I start [ __ ] in this bar if I react to this guy violently in this bar I’m putting all my brothers at
Risk too um not just that but when you’re not wearing a patch and you get in a bar fight and you leave you’re likely not being looked for or wanted it’s whatever but you do it with the patch on and it’s a big Federal charge
And there’s a man you know what I mean it just ends up turning into a bigger thing so it really you really have to think through the repercussions of your actions before you just react um and so you know I think there’s always those guys that can handle business but I
Think people have gotten smarter about how they do it or at least I would hope so yeah and but there I think there’s also usually someone in leadership that’s going to have that rational mind of okay is this work worth it you know what’s the outcome what do we want to
Get out of this and what are the repercussions I’ve always said when we’ve had to do stuff like that what’s the what’s risk versus reward right is this going to be worth what could possibly happen um and you know if you if you can do something that’s low risk
And high reward let’s get after it um and then there’s sometimes those times where it’s super high risk and the reward is not much but maybe we we feel like it needs to happen um but just someone actually is able to think stuff like that through before we just react
And you know get it put everybody at risk being shot or going to prison right right now when you finally got to uh the Mongols what was the biggest difference because for the people that don’t know Mongols is one of the one of the biggest clubs in in the world basically right
It’s the top well top four top five in in the world or at least in the country from what I understand what was the major difference from going to the smaller clubs to that well so I think there was pros and cons to both like The Outsiders they
Only had two chapters um but they were super super tight-knit so you want to talk Brotherhood well these guys all knew each other inside and out where everybody lived well you know they spent all their time together both chapters so there was you know even though the
Chapters were a couple hours apart there was a club event they were they were the only two chapters so they were always doing stuff together so I think that was a huge plus right um vagos were a bigger Club they also had a rule that you
Couldn’t fight each other but I what I did see is with the bigger clubs sometimes there’s you know power struggles and internal stuff like that or uh this chapter doesn’t like that chapter even if it didn’t turn into fighting it’s just you know it kind of undermined some of the Brotherhood but
Um the biggest thing and I guess what I liked most about the Mongols was it was the only club that I’d been around that the focus was truly on brotherhood what can we do for each other so like in Oregon when we eventually had four or five chapters even though we did our
Meetings individually any events we went to or if we were Bor whatever we did everything collectively so instead of being like oh this was Salem chapter we pretty much were this was war right like we all ran together we you know if we went to National runs or rides out of
State we were always together it wasn’t like oh Salem chapters going Idaho and Eugene chapter says I’ll meet you there we’ll meet up along the way or or if we’re passing other chapters we’ll stop by and pick them up and we’ll roll in one big group so the Mongols were really
Really good as far as like working together strength and numbers Unity type of thing like and because of that I think that propelled the Brotherhood right because we’re doing this for each other this isn’t just me this isn’t just my chapter this is for the group this is
For the we all have the same top rocker and the bottom one isn’t as relevant um and I can’t speak for other clubs I don’t know if they’re like that or not but but I didn’t see that but I definitely saw it in the Mongols and I
Would say that was one of the biggest differences to me is that you know it was a big major Club but when we got together it was still like family there was no I never went to a Mongol event or Mongol party and had to be like man you
Know I hope I’m I’m safe here like it was comfortable you could you know once you got to know everybody you could bring your old your wife or whoever and she was comfortable and um it was a b it’s a big family you know so I think
That that was was really cool and that’s what really promoted the whole brotherhood we’re all in this together you know and and when you’re in together you’re willing to do what you got to do for each other do you think that’s possibly the appeal for the Young
Generation too because you know uh being part of a unit uh or Community or family is basically nonexistent anymore it’s very unless you come from a very very traditional background like maybe Arabic or or Asian or something like that but um there’s a lot of uh young kids young
Men that are basically lost and they don’t know what it’s like to be part of a Brotherhood do you think that’s appealing absolutely yeah I mean I know that’s what drew me to it and you know like I talked in the book and I think we
Might have talked about four2 is I come from a really good siiz tighted Italian family I had family but still having friends and brothers that you can count on with similar shared interests that were W to do the same things so you know I want to go on a motorcycle ride I’ve
Got several other people that are like cool where are we going we pack our bikes together we’re spending time on the road together so um yeah I I think that’s a a big appeal to it for sure and I know like you know I get hit up by a
Lot of people on social media over the years and I’ve had people say oh yeah you know I’d really like to be in a club because I really am looking for Brotherhood I’m really looking for Brotherhood um but the caveat to that is a lot of these guys when I start asking
Questions they don’t have long-term friends they don’t have people that they consider brother and to me that’s of a red flag too I’m not saying big groups but if you can go your whole life and not have a couple of good solid friends you can depend on there’s likely some
Sort of issue with you as a person I don’t mean that in a negative way but what I do mean is the Brotherhood in any motorcycle club is not a given you don’t just get given the patch and everyone’s going to give you a hug and call your brother and treat you
Like their best friend right you know it’s still going to depend on you as a person and your indivi individuality and and the type of guy you are and your morals and values and if you went through your whole life with having lasting friendships you’ve like likely
Burnt some bridges and the same thing could happen to you in club life right so it’s definitely not a given it’s it’s a earned thing but that’s you know that’s mainly what prospecting is for is a big part is earning and get to know everybody and then just your time in the
Club the more time you’ve been in and the more you get to know everybody and you know the experiences we’ve spent together those types of things is what makes that Brotherhood real and then you know that’s what other people see and that’s that Allure right as other people
See us having fun being tight-knit protecting each other looking out for each other other um and that’s what draws people in all right I’m going to I’m going to take this in a different direction and then we’ll get back to the the club um you’ve been writing for in
Clubs for I don’t know how many years I think 2005ish so okay so 20 years give it close to 20 years yeah 20 years what uh what was your first bike well so I started on vasos back in the punk rock days little scooters my first my my first um like actual
Motorcycle was an 1100 Shadow I had for about two months um sold that and bought a 1,200 Sportster and then I started hanging out with The Outsiders and they wouldn’t let people ride Sports sters in fact you couldn’t even Park you couldn’t ride in the pack with them and you
Couldn’t Park your sports St in front of the clubhouse you had to park it across the street really so yeah so we traded those back in pretty quick and um so I had a ‘ 06 Night Train that I bought an’ 05 um and that was my first big twin
Okay okay and then what about uh since then man I’ve had 29 motorcycles over the years so I I’ve pretty much had them all at this point and uh were they all Holly Davidsons or you’ve went to different the majority of them were probably Harley-Davidson you
Know I had a few I grew up in Oregon so I had a few dual Sports y like Yamaha W r250 that I would take like trail riding um at a versus I I sold metric bikes when I was in graduate school so I you know I just love motorcycles all
Motorcycles so I’ve had a few sport bikes and um you know different stuff but for the most part yeah they’ve probably been Harley you never tried any Indian a bule or any other American made bik I had a bule I had the 1125r when it came out which was when they switched
From the Sportster motor to that rotax motor was their race one that thing was sick I had a great time on that bike but it was more of a their sport sportier looking one more of the race looking bikes I’ve never had an Indian um and
And even in metric bikes I don’t think other than that very first Honda I had I’ve never had like a metric Cruiser I figured if I was going to have a cruiser I’d just get a Harley and and the reason I liked some of those other brands is
Because it was stuff that Harley wasn’t making you know right right right right right one more bike question and then we’ll get back to uh you know your life and whatnot what do you think about this super Cruiser that’s coming out from bule everybody’s talk sick man I think
It’s badass I you know I’ve I’ve had two fxrs growing up um fxrs and D have always been kind of my style of bike like I said I’ve had a bu that actually had that same motor in it but it was a smaller version um I I think it’s sick I
Think my concern for it would be since there’s no like bu dealerships is what dealer support’s going to be like if there’s What You Know M maintenance you know you know how most time now if you want to have your warranty you have to get the maintenance done at the
Dealership versus doing it yourself um if there’s recalls or you know stuff like that I would just be concerned to like who who’s going to take care of that type of stuff or how that I just I guess how that would work um but I think
The idea of that bike is sick it looks like the old school fxrs you know it’s got a lot little sportier stance it’s got a huge motor in it it’s lightweight I mean I think that’s what it’s what everyone wants right now right what everyone spending big money into
Building yeah absolutely I I messaged you during the week and I asked you what you think about putting a turbo on my on my uh on my uh uh breakout yeah that bu is like 175 horsepower or something like that insane yeah crazy yeah I know absolutely but
That they want some big money for it it’s like over 20 grand from what I understand yeah but the hard yes I agree but I also think all new motorcycles are over 20 grand on that’s true that’s true that’s true I think for that for what they built in
That price point I was actually shocked that it wasn’t more and I still think it’s expensive but just and the way the market is I’m surprised it wasn’t more because you you want to buy a built FXR Diner an old one even or if you want to
Get one of the new soft Tales you know like the low rider St or you know one of those popular models you’re still looking in in the 20s you know yeah you’re 100% right yeah absolutely all right so let’s get back to uh Club life maybe we’ll talk about
Bikes again but when you were in the Mongols you said you actually were in the leadership role on a national level um how long did it take you to get there and um how what kind of steps with it so you know because there was no other
Chapters in Oregon when I started um I was elected to chapter P so I was a chapter president um but you know I was pretty inexperienced as a young kid it was just because we were the ones that started it right so I kind of learned as
I went there for quite a while um in 2008 after I’d gotten out of jail and I was put on I was put on non Association so I wasn’t allowed to hang out with the club and I knew I was going to keep doing it and every time I violated I
Kept going back to jail so um iconed from my probation and moved to San Diego because my mentor in the club at the time he was a president of the San Diego chapter so figured well if I want to learn how to be a good leader and learn
How to be the best Mongol I can be the best place to do it it’s going to be Southern California that’s where all the Mongols are that’s you know I I essentially being in Oregon felt like I was in a satellite chapter you know early on because there’d be six or eight
Of us in the whole state where california’ be 800 you know so right right right right yeah so I moved down there and just kind of learned a lot I was in um uh just as a regular member when I was there I wasn’t in any officer
Positions the first time I was there I did go back to California when I was uh doing my undergrad at w your college and that’s when I first got brought into mother chapter which is the national leadership when I first got brought in I was not brought in as a leadership
Position it was just mainly like as a soldier so i’ help out with security you know I’d follow the officers around I could have input in in the in the National Club meet you know in the mother chapter meetings and stuff but I didn’t hold any sort of
Position and then some time around that time and I talk about this a bit in my book too so that the club started expanding quite a bit over the years and you know they were kind of learning as they grow what’s working with expansion and what’s not um and one of the things
That I’ve always been pushing like I was saying earlier is that the club runs as one whole unit so if if a guy in Utah has a certain rule that the same rule should be in California or if California Brothers doing this the Florida guy you
Should be able to pick up and go to any state and the rules and regulations should all be the same right we’re supposed to be the same Club so everyone should be acting the same and what was difficult in the early years was like in Oregon for example we had uh you know
Someone that would oversee the state so they’re you know they weren’t necessarily like the title wasn’t boss or anything but they were you know they were representative of mother chapter and their job was to make sure things were going smooth be there if you have any questions make sure that everyone’s
Following the protocol um and most of the time early on that guy was from California and what we had learned or what we were starting to kind of see was you know a guy from California doesn’t necessarily understand the local Club politics in Oregon there’s clubs in Oregon that aren’t in California there’s
Clubs in organ that these California Brothers have never even heard of um there’s also you know a bunch of members in the state that unless you’re coming and visiting often you don’t even know who’s where or where you know what I’m saying like the logistics of it and I
Think the downside to that other than that stuff too was if you were if there was a member that was just kind of the squeaky wheel or wanted wanted it you know position of power just to get the attention and he was in that guy’s ear
Often that’s what they hear is going on where they because they’re not physically there seeing how the things are working so um me and little Dave who was the national P at the time we developed what we called the state representative program or at the time it was called the regional representative
Program and and the point of that was there should be someone with Club exper you know chapter Mongol experience that have been in for a while that knows history but also knows protocol procedures that’s actually boots on the ground in the area so um I got brought in as a Northwest
Regional rep so I oversaw Oregon and Washington so like you know I helped with expansion I helped you know teach chapters how to run the right way making sure that everyone was if there was an event everyone was going um you know that that type of stuff um and that I
Want to say it was 201 11 or 12 and that’s when I got like officially was kind of into National leadership then because I from there I ended up helping oversee all the I helped start Australia chapter so I helped oversee austal impressive yeah and that um we’ll jump right back
To that in a second because that’s pretty a quick cool story but I oversaw um you know all the pretty much all the out-of country chapters there for a little while it was I was the go between between them and mother chapter I was one trying to make sure they were
Following the rules um and and so I was I did that quite a bit and then when I moved out to the Midwest um there was about two Mongols in well there was two Mongols left in Kansas City no chapters otherwise in Missouri in ill in Illinois
And none in Tennessee in one chapter in Indiana so I came out here and started a lot of chapters there’s four in Missouri two in Illinois or three in Missouri two in Illinois three four in Indiana and one in Tennessee since you know I had
Been out here and so then I I became you know then I started overseeing the Midwest so I kind of always once we started that program I kind of was always in some sort of position where I was helping chapters start helping teach people the protocol and the program
Being the middleman between mother chapter and them um you know making sure guys being active going to events stuff like that so i’ had been doing that since I want to say it was 2012-ish wow that’s actually impressive so yeah tell me the story about the
About Australia yeah so back when I was a Vago I want to say this was probably the Myspace day is just a date everybody yeah God but there’s a club really big Club in Australia called the FX one of the biggest clubs in Australia um and I don’t know how the connection started
But there was a couple guys from the FX that I was talking to back and forth just you know another motorcycle club I was a 25 or 26 year old kid so I was just want to meet people and talk so I was I started getting pretty close to a
Lot of them and one of them had gotten um in a shootout at a kickboxing match it was called The Ballroom Blitz it was like pretty big in the in the media back then in Australia CU he he had shot a guy had left the Fink and joined the
Hell’s Angels so the Finks were attacking him and he had shot this guy at this kickboxing match and they were saying hey you know we’re looking for people to ride him he’s locked up just want to keep you know and because I was a new I was also would sit down and
Write the Vos that were in prison so I had a list of people that I would write in prison introduce myself get to know each other um you know I wanted to be the best member I could and talk to as many people as I could and so I added
This dude to my to my to my list and then we started getting to know each other we’re talking a lot back and forth so he was telling other thinks about me and so the ones I became friends with I didn’t know this at the time but they
Were ended up being the national bosses of this FX Club so they were like the main players in the FX really and so there became a time when Australia I’m sure everyone’s heard about it you know how Australia made all these crazy laws where pretty much it’s illegal to wear
Were different states in Australia but it was illegal to wear your patch and you couldn’t hang out with each other and if your club’s considered a organized crime you could you’d get arrested for hanging out with each other and so I think they were trying to find
A way maybe to skirt that and make some changes and they were kind of considering maybe starting a new club or whatever but because of my Rel their relationship with me they brought up the idea of joining the Mongols and so I put them in touch with Mother chapter and we
Worked out to details and the Mongols before that had one small chapter in Australia I think they had five members to being the biggest Club in Australia after that really wow wow that’s that’s actually really impressive yeah and then you know those Australian guys since they came from
Another major club and they’ve been there a long time they have a lot of connections in the club world so they help start like Thailand and Malaysia and you know that a lot of the growth we have over there was started after AUST because of Australia how do how does how does the
Leadership keep up with so many chapters globally I mean it’s almost like a Fortune 500 company yeah and see that’s that’s the part about learning as we grow that’s what um you know that’s why we developed a State Rep program just for the United States alone was that
Same issue like how how is uh someone in leadership in Los Angeles going to know what’s going on in New York you know right um so that’s why we came up that State Rep program and it’s essentially we do similar stuff out of country there’s like Australia has their own
Leadership but then they also answer to the mother chapter here um so you have to kind of trust the leadership there you know we I we I couldn’t get into Australia because my criminal record plus you can’t normally go if you’re a known Club member or gang member they
Can’t get in here so we would do meetings in like Bali um Thailand we well I did Thailand with them Mexico so we would find places to meet up once or twice a year to all be on the same page and so just communication was a big piece wow that’s actually really
Definitely definitely something like a learning as you grow type of thing for sure yeah that’s unbelievable how many countries are the Mongols in uh man I’m not sure now so when I took over overseeing out of state or out of country austral there was a guy in Australia that had started some
Unauthorized chapters and we’re trying to figure out which were good which weren’t good who should stick around who shouldn’t and Germany’s always been a big area for the Mongols they’ve been there for quite a while um Canada’s opened up twice but never made it there was guys in Italy but once we closed
Them down they just started counterfeit patches and still acting like Mongols and there wasn’t a lot we could do from here you know wow um and then there was a small chapter in England uh there was a small chapter in France I think I know they have chapters in Ireland now um but
You know I’m not up to date with it necessarily but I do know like when I was overseeing Europe there was only a few chapters and they were pretty spread out and it wasn’t necessarily a good look right because here you know these other clubs are big Outlaws or Angels or
Bandidos are are big in that area and we’ve got like four or five guys and spread out so you don’t even see them out and about it’s more was like on paper we were there so we really started going through and saying okay wh which ones are active have good reputations
Are following you know doing the way that we do things um and the ones that weren’t we ended up shutting down like Brazil for example they were they had started out with like 20 guys and they were down to like three and and they had
Moved um to San Paulo and I know the guys wanted it and I you know I feel bad that we shut it down but they just they weren’t making it you know right right and and if they’re not going to make it and another club attacks them or
Something like that that reflects on all of us so we ended up shutting a lot of a lot of chapters down um because they weren’t being run properly or or you know didn’t have the proper inside or the good inside or enough enough people
In it in fact there was a um a chapter in England where it turned out that their president had you had come from the Hell’s Angels which isn’t you know you can’t go from the hell angels to the Mongol pretty probably well probably obvious reasons really how did that
Happen well so I’m not quite sure because somehow we didn’t we were unaware of this and so and it wasn’t just that he used to be a Hell’s Angel he had been involved in a pretty violent um altercation when he was a Hell’s Angel With The Outlaws and I don’t
Remember if an outlaw had been killed or just severely injured but the Outlaws obviously had beef with this guy and at the time we were really close with the Outlaws so they were essentially they’re the ones that told us about it hey you know this guy he used to be Hell’s Angel
And not just that we have beef with him and he’s kind of using your club for protection type of deal wow so you know I get on the phone with these guys or we’re sending emails and I’m saying hey you know I know you guys care about this
Guy but he we have rules against this he shouldn’t have been let in in the first place he can’t be in the club and they just started telling me that okay yeah he’s out he’s not in but like I said there’s always some squeaky wheel that wants to impress leadership there’s
Always someone’s going to tell right getting pictures of well this guy’s still in they were just trying to hide it from us um and that’s really I think that was an eye opening that we did shut that chapter down but it was an eye-open experience to us too is how are we going
To do this like how are we going to oversee areas where something like England okay they’re going to decide they don’t want to follow our rules what are we G to do pack up and get on a plane and go out there like there’s not
A lot we can do in a lot of situations right right um so so a lot of that governing the outof country stuff is is still in process it’s gotten better because essentially what they do like I said Germany’s been around a long time and does a good job so they’ll help
Oversee certain parts or Australia’s big and strong so they’ll help oversee other parts um so as long as there’s chap bigger chapters that you can trust out there then then we’ll have you know we can still maintain leadership okay um since you brought up uh the angels and
If you don’t want to speak about this you don’t have to um when you were a [ __ ] were there any were there any serious run-ins yeah yeah I mean not maybe not necessarily well not a lot personal ones but it it happened on a regular basis
Somewhere for sure um a lot of Mongols have been killed by Hell’s Angels a lot of Mongols I was close with were killed by well a few some of the younger members that I was close with were killed by Hell’s Angels um but it was definitely uh always a pretty hot thing
Yeah it seems that the Mongols and the angels kind of always had this this running has there ever been has there ever been voice of reasons from both sides that said hey look you know yeah let’s end this this is ridiculous with just killing each other
This is years of of beef that’s going back and we don’t even know why we don’t like each other yeah absolutely there was you know there’s times when newer members will join and you know they’re f f the Angels or F the Mongols and they have no idea why right um the argument
To that obviously is once you’ve been in long enough you’d likely lose a brother to one of them and then it’s then you’re now now you get it right you’re on but yeah no definitely there was I can’t remember the exact year but there was a time let say 2010 2011 sometime
Around then um where the two clubs started meeting and talking about initially it started with just a standown ceasefire everyone ignore each other um but tried we I don’t think anyone ever assumed we were going to be friends but we were trying to get to the
Point where we could coexist um a lot of people were dying and going to prison over the years and it was it’s not beneficial to either Club um and there were some voices of reason on both sides that were really pushing it and wanted it I think the big issue or the problem
For at least for my my personal experience why it didn’t seem to work is leadership differences where the Mongols are a top- down leadership National President says hey we’re cool with with the angels hands off if you violate that rule you’re going to get disciplined right where the Angels don’t have
National leadership from what I understand they’re you know it’s there’re a one man one vote so every chapter is can do their own thing essentially ah okay so when we would have these meetings they’d say okay well we’re cool here here and here but still haven’t worked out here here and here um
And the Mongols don’t work like that you know we might be cool in Los Angeles but if you put hands on one of us in Arizona now we’re not cool in Los Angeles either so getting everyone on the same page ended up being the challenge and I think
The reason it didn’t work out but there has been some times it’s been tried okay okay what have what have been the biggest allies for the Mongols what which clubs it probably depends on the Generation Um like when I when I joined um the Mongols were getting really tight
With the pagans the pagans were helping the Mongols with their East Coast expansion and when I say hoping I I don’t mean like giving them members or anything but they were just allowing them to start in their areas stuff like that um and they spent a lot of time
Togethers party party together so for a while the Mongols and pagans had had a really good rapport I believe they still do but like I said I’m not in anymore so I couldn’t say that stuff changes on and off even then like I said the Mongols were really tight with the pagans and
There was a year or so that they weren’t and then they were again um but the pagans have always been a pretty big Ally and then for a long time the Outlaws were allies of the Mongols they were they were you know both used to have issues with the angels they’re both
Black and white clubs I know my history with the Outlaws is some of their their leadership were guys that were big in the punk rock and hardcore scene back when I was so we already knew each other or knew of each other um so we kind of already had a really close
Friendship so that also helped build the club’s friendship but even before me the clubs were hanging out spending time together um that you know not necessar like a Brotherhood Club but they all coexisted they were friends hung out together um and that was for many for
Many many years the problem and then we like when I was in the Northwest we were always super cool with the Bandidos anytime I’d visit Texas they’d take care of us um so I I think mainly other than the angels for the most part the Mongols used to get along with pretty much
Everybody yeah it seems strange because I mean it’s basically everybody wants to do the same thing ride motorcycles have a good time hang out with your boys get laid that’s pretty much it you would think everybody would be cool with each other the the problem I’ve seen is it
Firsthand is it’s just ego so all ego and and some disrespect to an extent as well where in the early years every Club had their own area right Tech Texas was Bandits you know Southern California was Mongols and so on and in this this new day and age of bikers or or motorcycle
Clubs everybody’s going everywhere and and it ends up stepping on toes or or violating agreements and then clubs we’ve been friends with forever are no longer friends because we’ve started a chapter in their state without their permission or in their area without their permission um and and you know law
Enforcement comes up with some [ __ ] narrative that it’s because it’s about you know power and control of money and organized crime and stupid [ __ ] but I know firsthand that’s not a fact it’s actually the sad fact is it’s just ego nobody’s nobody’s losing money over it it’s not really affecting anybody um
I’ve started a lot of chapters in other club’s areas and and you know always triy to do it with their permission when I could but even not what I would always tell them is you know with all due respect we don’t attract the same type of members because we’re a different
Club you know we have the Mongols have a different look than this club or that club so the type of people that come to us are probably not people that we’re taking out of your pool we don’t take each other’s ex-members we would you know everyone kind of have their own bar
Their own area so we weren’t really stepping on toes so I I think a a rational mind can see cordial coexistence for sure but I think there’s a lot of ego and older Generations that were this is our area and they can’t be here and you know like I said if you touch
One you have an issue everywhere so might be cool with one Club all over and then there’s an issue in Florida and all a sudden we’re not cool anymore so the and then you know I don’t want to get super deep into this but I will say in
The last couple years what I have seen is it used to be most clubs didn’t get along with the angels and everyone liked the Mongols and now all these clubs are aligning with with each other or with angels because of pagan and Mongol expansion so like these other major
Clubs are working together to try and keep Mongols and pagans out so it just shifts I guess politically it shifts depending on who’s in charge who’s moving where um what clubs are friends with what I tell you one thing it’s h it’s extremely interesting um and I could see
Why people are enamored by it and if you if you notice all the uh biker documentaries are on Sundays I guess because because guys are home and they like watch all the all the biker documentaries and Mafia documentaries are on Sundays I’m only going to ask a couple more questions and they’re going
To be pretty relatively uh you know simple and then I I’ll let you go because I don’t want to keep up too much of your time yeah no problem man nationality everybody thinks bikers are all white is that accurate or no no not at all and especially nowadays um I
Don’t know there’s a a Instagram page called Outlaw archives if you guys are interested in like biker history and stuff definitely check it out but he you know he collects old school biker artifacts photos histories and he knows all the history of it and he’s even
Pointed out the fact that you know in the 60s and 70s the Angels had a couple black members they’ve always had his some Hispanic members um some Asian members so but yes historically everyone thinks it’s you know it’s it’s a white it’s a white man’s thing and you know
It’s it’s American right so there’s that big piece um but then you know I I couldn’t tell you when the rule started but I know early on almost every major Club had a rule that that blacks can’t join and so then that became that it’s all whites but you know
Everyone knows that the Mongols are primarily Hispanic there’s a lot of Hispanics in the vagos I’ve met a lot of Hispanics in the Outlaws there’s a lot of Hispanics in the Angels so I mean and the Bandidos obviously yeah well well the Bandidos are whiter than you would
Think actually really well te it’s Texas right so South Texas is Hispanic and the rest are white but outside of Texas a lot of Bandidos are are white um so I think there’s a mix in all clubs the big the difference I see now now is there’s likely black members in clubs but
They’re not openly talking about it like it’s normally like oh he he’s PTO Rican or he’s he’s Dominican you know what I mean yeah yeah and I’m not saying that to talk [ __ ] by any means but I’m saying that that people are going on a case-by
Case basis but I would say um you know as far as the black thing goes I know the way it was explained to me is it comes down to the United States prison politics you know if you’re going to be you say you’re an angel or Mongol and
You go go to the to the Joint you want to hang with your brothers but if they’re of A different race or nationality then you really can’t so it would start issues there um which makes sense to me although I haven’t been in prison so I can’t say that it it just
Seems to make sense from what I’ve heard right right well it does make sense the Mongols have black members in Australia seen them you know there’s quite a few of them so I think it’s more of an American thing and I do definitely see it changing I just think ego like I said
Ego plays a huge role in this world and and I think no one wants to be the first Club to do it right right right right and that’s my personal opinion um because like I said they’re they are black members in some of these major clubs but they’re just
Not identifying as being black members wow that’s that’s that’s amazing okay now here’s another myth if you will is that uh you can’t leave once you remember you’re a member forever but you obviously were able to leave is that how did you do it or is that something
That’s just false yeah it’s just straight up false I categorically false I can’t imagine maybe that was something back in the day or maybe that’s just because of you know Mafia and gang type stuff so people assume it’s the same um every Club I’ve ever been around members
Quit all the time are allowed to leave um you know and I’m every Club kind of has a different way they deal with it I suppose you know some clubs you could leave and if you’re in good standings you can come back later a lot of the
Smaller clubs will have a guy that’s left and come back a couple times um and then they all have you know different rules about what constitutes what your status is when you leave and you know used to be the out bad designation was were for someone that did something negative against the club
Ratted messed with the brother’s old lady stole from some you know like for for the degenerates that shouldn’t be in the club world they’d be put out in bad standings which back then meant you couldn’t affiliate with any club no other club could take you and no one
Could have communication with you um you know nowadays like the Mongols lost a lot of members after black ran in 2008 so they had a they made up a rule if you haven’t been in for more than 10 years you can’t if you leave the club no matter what reason you’re automatically
Out bad so then there’s guys that okay they’re out in bad standings you can’t talk to them but no one’s there’s no ill will no one’s trying to do anything you know go out and get them it’s just they left before they were in long enough to
Be out in good standings so there’s just different caveats to it at this point but I would tell you I’ve you know I helped a lot with the expansion I brought a lot of people into this club and I’ve seen just as many people leave now what is what was Black Rain Black
Rain was that big undercover um operation that happened in 2008 when the Mongols had several undercover informant or act undercover agents in their club and then there was like a nationwide raids and racketeering charge and really yeah in fact H some of it still going on because that’s when the government found
A loophole or whatever where they tried to use say that the Insignia was that they were able to take it they were saying that they that that they could take it due like say they say they do a racketeering against organization or a a franchise like say McDonald’s they might
Be able to take the logo because it’s been used in concert for the Fran franchise so they tried that with the Mongols and it didn’t work but it still it keeps you know it’s been going on since 2008 it’s been going to different appet courts and back and forth and wow
Okay so it’s it it was a really big thing in in the Mongols and you know I joined in 2007 and I think I want to say probably around 2005 is when the leadership before that doc was in this really big recruitment drive so he was
Bringing a lot of people in in a lot of states and a lot of people weren’t prospecting and um so there was a lot of you know gung-ho Mongols that once people’s homes started getting raided and guys were going to prison were like uh you know what this isn’t what I
Signed up for and you know it obviously rubbed the those are the guys those of us that stayed the wrong way so trying to come up with different rules on when you can leave when you can’t leave what their status is a lot of times it’s Case
By case or at least it wasn’t under my leadership you know if you’re if you’re quitting because you’re scared or you’re a [ __ ] then yeah you’re going to be out bad if if uh you know your your old lady’s sick and you got no one to take
Care of her and you don’t you can’t put the time into with a club then why would we put you out in bed so I see yeah okay there’s always you know we could always figure figure it out it’s pretty Case by casee But to answer the easy answer is
Yes people leave and quit motorcycle clubs all the time with no issues no one’s out looking for you um I mean if you listen if you left the club and you kept your patch and you’re still representing it then yeah someone might want to beat you up I would I would
Imagine right that’s different but if you’re a respectful person and and you know you follow kind of the the protocol and the rules and and mind your own you don’t stir the pot I’m I’m sure that no one really cares do you uh do you miss
It there’s I miss some of the people I don’t necessarily miss the lifestyle anymore and I don’t mean that negatively because I had a blast I loved everything about it um I just like I said it didn’t really M necessarily fit with my lifestyle anymore and I will also say
That I’ve been very blessed with the fact that I’ve got a group of guys in my area that left around the same time as me that I’m very very tight with and we ride together often we do all the like we just Rod to Texas and back we do
Weekend rides so all the all the positives I got out of Club life I still get but I no longer have to deal with the politics the negativity um the police harassment you know PE the the backstabbing for for politics all of that stuff’s gone and now I just have a
Small group of friends that I ride with and party with so um because of that I don’t there’s not a lot I would miss oh okay well that’s good is it true Jesse venturo was a Mongol yeah yeah absolutely not for a super long time but
He was a Mongol in the San Diego chapter his club name was Superman he actually wrote the club’s fight song um or is credited for writing it at least and you know he he’s his status is is retired in good standing so he still has his patch
I’ve seen him wear a club property on like different uh TV like interviews and stuff um I saw him at uh one of the Mongol anniversary parties National anniversary parties he was there wearing his hat yeah a picture of me and him on my Instagram page it’s like the most
Liked photo I’ve got on my that’s awesome yeah you would never think you know back then the the wrestlers the wrestlers in the 70s 80s 90s they were legitimate tough guys oh for sure they were because you know they you know first of all you had to be right and but
They if you really did have a a shoot back uh a shoot fight background or wrestling background or you didn’t have anything else to go into there was no mixed martial arts there’s no UFC you know the the only thing was wrestling so you really did like a lot of these guys
Were legitimate tough guys yep yeah from what I heard Jesse had left the Navy and was had joined the Mongols and then left the Mongols to get into pro wrestling so kind in that inter term there yeah there was there was I I believe there was a there was a promoter a wrestling
Promoter in the 70s and 80s I’m not 100% sure what his name was but it wasn’t Vince McMahon was before he took over everything and back then it was like you know you didn’t say it was fake right the the audience said it was fake you
Said it was real right oh you watch people get smacked for saying it was fake I remember right yeah yeah there’s that famous there’s that famous moment John stasel got smacked yeah that’s right excuse me and um so the guys you know after after wrestling matches they
Would go out they would hang out they’d go to the ball you know it wasn’t like today with his Netflix and video games oh no they were Stars man yeah they would go out they would go and they would drink and they do drugs and have a
Good time and then there was always like the local tough guys that would be like oh you guys are fake it’s [ __ ] it’s fake wrestling and the promoe one of the promoters I might it might have been Vern G but I’m not 100% sure I might be
I might be wrong if you lost the ball fight you got fired you that’s badass yeah yeah because he it was like it was so embedded in them that you have to make make sure that they the people believe that it’s real that yeah if you
Lost the ball fight you were gone and a lot of these guys they were nuts I mean they would they were just oh yeah you hear like a lot of those old school stories or you know even like guys like the rock that grew up around that stuff
You hear his stories what you noce whatever you hear all these stories from back in the day and you said they were rock stars man they went put on this they put they Abus their bodies but they they worked super hard for what they got and then when they went out they went
Out and they went hard you know yeah they and it was no it was no [ __ ] joke like there were a lot of legitimate tough guys so the fact that Jessie ventur was a mongle doesn’t surpr surprised me I know um I know when Hogan
Was in WCW was NWO he had like a pay-per-view where he had a bunch of angels leading him into the ring yeah Mel chansy and the Chicago Hell’s Angels so that’s right Mel’s been uh me me and Mel actually connected recently since we’re both out of Club life and you know
Both have that shared experience of being in a club for a long time and in leadership and then leaving and doing different things with your life so him and I been getting pretty close and he’s told me some of that and then I’ve seen some of those interviews but Mel was so
Big to the bodybuilding scene back in the day oh he was a monster and he was such a huge dude that uh yeah he he knew he met Hulk Hogan he was you know knew the rock he he knew a lot of those dudes back then just from bodybuilding so
What’s funny is I remember hearing those stories of Hulk Hogan was a Hell’s Angel or he knows Hell’s Angels and all the stuff um and now I know who it was I mean like how life works out yeah you know it’s it’s I’ve been trying to get
Mel chy on since I started my podcast three years ago and I’ll I’ll message him on Instagram or Facebook and he does get back to to me he yeah he will never ignore me just say I can’t do it right now whatever the case may be whatever
Busy guy man and he’s still very much involved with bodybuild has his own shows he has his own shows um you know a couple different businesses he just he’s absolutely a super busy guy but he’s been nothing short of awesome and and cool to me so yeah yeah it was it was
Unbelievable so what is your life like now I know you’re a social worker I know you’re big into mixed martial arts and you’re still writing you’re married yeah what is what’s what’s your life like now that’s what I’m doing so you know I uh I work Monday through
Friday 9: to 5 pretty much and then after work I’m either lifting weights or doing Jiu-Jitsu depend on what day of the week it is and then uh the times I’m not doing that I’m with the boys riding motorcycles and being irresponsible and having a good time so um life’s been
Great man I really can’t complain things have been going awesome I think that’s maybe one of the reasons like when you say do you miss it um there’s aspects I miss but I’m really happy with where I am in my life you know when I get some
Fre free time I try and do my YouTube channel which isn’t super often but I still do it and you know I did it was really fun working on this book and now I’m into trying to promote this book so you know I stay I stay busy but I have a
Really good time so the book here it is the ride of my life and one a memoir Justin mooch deetto where could we get this book uh best way to do it’s Amazon just because that’s where they like record rankings and you know all that
Type of stuff so just you can just put in ride of my life or mooch or whatever on Amazon and it’ll pop up and I got hard paperback and Kindle version I’m just about to start recording the audio version so it’ll eventually be on Audible um but that’s pretty cool that
Takes a little bit so yeah well I’m gonna make sure that the link of for Amazon is in the description when this is out so you could just click and go buy it go buy it it’s a great book we didn’t even touch on what’s In the book
From this you know 45 minute one hour interview there’s a hell of a lot more uh mooch is a great guy go out and support bu the book you won’t be disappointed and mooch thank you again really I really appreciate you coming on man absolutely it’s been an honor good
Time chopping it up with you thanks for having me back of course brother we’ll talk soon all right bro all right later Later
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