Well we want to continue on that note and we are very very honored here to be joined as we continue to talk about Haiti by edwidge danticot who is a haitian-american novelist and the one the wound son melon professor of humanities African-American and African diaspora studies at Columbia University
Miss dantika thank you so much for being with us oh thank you so very much for having me it’s really an honest with us I was actually talking with several people before the show about how much we love so many of your novels but uh obviously this is a a huge moment
Happening right now you know for Haiti I think also for the Dominican Republic you have so many things on the table you probably heard some of our past conversations so I’ll just maybe ask you why has this this issue of building a canal in the northern portion of Haiti
Becomes such a rallying cry for Haitians uh in the way that it seems to over the past week or so well I think the the issue of the canal as uh Dr Prospero said it’s such it’s so important to Haiti in so many ways first of all
Um as as she mentioned the 1929 treaty uh between Haiti and the Dominican Republic allows first of all for the canal to happen it um and there’s been attempts before for to to build the canal uh in 2018 when uh uh started it and they had a firm from
Cuba uh come in complete about 60 of it but when he passed away the construction uh stopped and then uh people then you know needing this canal then decided to start building it on their own but um the canal issue I think it’s something the whole world should be paying
Attention to because first of all IT addresses this issue you know I’ve heard most of my adult life that future Wars will be fought over water and resources like that and you’re having an example right now in Haiti because Haiti is always in a way at a Forefront of
Certain movements and revolutions you’re having this play out right now where uh people with more you know with more backing with more funds are saying we’re going to stop you from building one Canal where the Dominican Republic has built 11 waterways off the same river and even
I’ve been out there when he addressed you know to say we’re going to close all the borders to Haiti said that they control something like 88 of this river which flows which starts on the Dominican side but flows through Haiti and is enriched in many places by
Haitian other Haitian rivers and I think that the the gold mine should very much be paid attention to this week it was reported that there’s a contract with bear gold and unicode to build a gold mine right on this on this same border where this uh where this river is and
That because of this there’ll be you know water there’s this just gonna be the water it’s going to be poisoned that area will be a desert if that gold mine comes there and in addition to that they’ve announced in addition to closing the borders that they’re going to build
A dam further up that then will close the whole area to the river at all so I think the these farmers in Haiti who have been you know quietly trying to get this done for for this plane which is which is a very important area for
Feeding the the you know the rest of the region they represent I believe you know what it’s it’s a David and Goliath fight really I’ve been there is a nil is an election mode he’s using anti your Haitian Pro you know for for his own benefit and
But at the same times you have this group of people who are resisting and at the on the anniversary as Dr Prosper mentioned of the LA santacion that stripped many of them of nationality who have been there for Generations but also on the close to the anniversary of the
Massacre of of Haitians that were ordered by the Dominican um dictator tour here in 1937 and he too too here said that he that Massacre happened because they were protecting Farmers which is something that’s been very much repeated this week you know I think it’s really interesting
How um just reading about the story the uh Dominican leadership has been denouncing the Haitian leadership even though the Asian government isn’t doing anything at all to protect uh their own citizens uh living in this area can you talk a bit about what people in this area are doing to pushback because
They’ve kind of you know taken matters into their own hands because it says of course their livelihood yes I mean this is uh this is an area that I know somewhere well because I’ve gone quite often and I used to go quite a bit when I was researching
Um a book that I wrote on the on the mask on this massacre um it’s an area that you know the Dominican policy from to here on uh especially in the Border areas is always they based it’s a policy for them of contrast so they want to you know the
These and not Dominican people I think there’s a really wonderful relations between the people themselves you know neighbors like they’ll call it each other like Haitians was impressive you know I’m going to the neighbors and and and there’s that you know if you will but these governments have always used
Corrected a policy of contrast you know they’re African we’re European they’re you know they practice Voodoo we’re Catholic and they they really use those types of um they use tropes in order to to separate people but they also when the election time is coming as it is for
Um I’ve been idea then if you want to win you sort of hold up this this Haitian Menace and I think the people on the border who are used to like these this fraternity uh between each other then they and and also are abandoned really by their state for the last 10
Years we’ve had a really predatory state in Haiti where the people in power in Haiti have actually seen themselves more in Dominican Elites than they have and and the poor especially the rural people of Haiti so you know so these people after waiting I mean I think waiting for
For for the government to do it like they’ve decided to do it on their in their together and that’s a you know we have precedent in a Haitian culture especially in Haitian rule culture uh for this and and con beat where people you know you work my land today I’ll
Work yours to more people are used to working each other you know know in this in this raw space they’re used to working together they’re used to this system of like who is of communities because for you you’ve they have not been able to count on their stage you
Know they’ve been able to count on their neighbors so I think with this canal it’s become such a a rallying cry and a symbol for all of us in Haiti and diaspora because it’s you know people um acting fully together and um and I think abhin Nader was hoping that his uh
The the closing the borders and the blackades would um would bring people to their knees but on the other hand he’s kind of you know United a lot of the community you know we’ve had you know because of all the things that are happening in Port-au-Prince people also
Coming a lot of people coming to the rural areas because of the the the par these paramilitary groups you know these the these criminal arm groups in the city so a lot of people including my relatives have had to leave their homes in the city to go to the back to the to
The rural area so then people are looking at themselves you know people like well if we if if we don’t have those places to go um what it what is left and I think there’s a lot of things coming together in this moment to that is rallying
People that is people are coming from all over people are sending money so that the canal could be uh could be completed because it’s more than a canal at this point and and part of it is a Dominican government the abinada has made it that they’ve made it a symbol
Um of of resistance against you know against bullying because the military you know they’ve really militarized the Border too it’s not just closing the Border but there’s like there’s there’s it’s an Army on this border and why you know and who are they going to fight against people building a canal
No I think that’s an extraordinarily important point and we saw uh I’ve been a dare meet yesterday with President William Ruto of Kenya uh who thanked him for supporting Kenya backing into the country but I mean I wonder how you see these two issues intersecting coming
Almost at the same time I mean obviously the canal issue was you know became a big issue they were Dominican Republics but all over the unga trying to you know create their own narrative about it at the same time that everyone from Biden on down is really pushing aggressively
To have this intervention force be set in the next few days I mean how do you see these two issues coming together in terms of what we’re seeing Elites in U.S Canada Dominican Republic and other uh seem to come together at this moment both for an invasion and in opposition
To the Haitian people sovereignty well I think whenever uh people who follow a Haitians politics very closely there’s always an uptick in violence right before these meetings and there was an extraordinary it’s just really a huge Spike right before the expected uh September 15 vote on the U.N resolution
So it’s it’s almost as if sort of like the the people who are behind the scenes they’re just like here you know you know this is why we should come in and and they want to there’s an effort it seems to almost push things make the people so
Desperate that you know that they leave them no other choice and each time there’s a new element added in and so I think I think the the the Border issue now you know I’ve been out there for years has been and he he touts this himself all the time going to
The U.N saying you know Haiti must be pacified and um he did it you know he didn’t 2021 he’s got he and he you know when before he left for the for the meeting he said you know that’s what I’m going to say again and and it’s in his you know is in
Its interest to seem almost like he’s trying to I mean even talks about the canal like well you know it’s basically sort of this this Anarchist um building it and I think frankly uh it seems like especially in his election year he’s just salivating for an opportunity to like bring join this
Force that’s going to be in Haiti like I think you know they’re so close already they’re you know and and actually Dominican forces have already entered Haiti during the building of the canal in 2021 they crossed over and tried to intimidate um some of the people who are working in
The canal and that led to uh that led to a bilateral meeting in which they agreed um and they had a a joint statement that the canal was fine based on uh the 1929 Treaty of friendship and um that that both countries had signed so I think
Um as Dr Prosper said it’s it’s trying to find new places new entries into Haiti and I think nothing frankly with all the abuses that are being right now done to to Haitians in the Dominican Republic and and you know and still I mean that they are presenting himself at
The UN at the same one as sort of you know the the one that’s kind of keeping the the you know the the the Savages in check and and we take care of them we do our part now you do your part and I
Think I think he wants sin I think he I think he really wants to be part of this force and that’s what he’s offering himself and I think symbolically for him um that would be such a such a victory to finally conquer Haiti well let me just ask you this final
Question before we let you go uh what do you make of of Ariel on Reed coming out and saying that he’s gonna back the canal uh sort of out of the blue here at the same time where he’s saying he’s going to back this invasion is it just
So much covering of his behind or is there maybe something else there well I mean I think there’s a lot of covering of of the behind because you have also this new development where a lot of these armed groups in Haiti now have come together and they said well
We’re going to stop fighting the people we’re going to stop slaughtering the people and we’re gonna go for our Eli absolutely they’ve really stated clearly so I think um I I think the his backup movement now the canal right it’s uh it’s it’s there’s a lot of people where there’s a
Lot of rallying behind it and I think he’s just trying to join a train that in a way has already left him behind um because a lot of people you know he’s not he’s not popular and he’s not legitimate in their eyes and and and this data you know he’s abandoned the
People and so many other instances you know and and and these massacres in in the city um and and now these you know it’s it’s a people’s it’s a people’s movement and and um and I think that might offer in some cover but I you know I don’t want to
Speak for the people in the movement but I think I think they have um they have so much support and and so much hard and so much fire right now that uh that he had no choice but to kind of you know join in but but one
Thing again you know uh before we leave is that these types of tactics blockades and all of that has been used against Haiti since its independence um and you know when in 1804 Haiti had no friends because they they were they were black Republic that had decided
That black people should be free and the rest of the world just um shut them out so people have created systems for themselves to survive again like I said with the combi which is what we’re seeing in a large scale at the at in the canal and the laku when people
Expressing support so um so I think uh the world should watch this as I said in the beginning because it’s a battle for uh small farmers who are just trying to to irrigate a plot of land who are trying to keep their countries alive again someone you know on the other side
A president who wants to win elections who wants to bring gold mines who wants to dry off water on you know on a very on a very in a very small place but play faced with great spirit and great heart and and with a revolutionary um past and hopefully future
Well I will join you in those hopes uh and we’ve just done to kind of have to say it was an absolute honor to have you here with us and thank you for giving us some of your time here on the freedom side thank you for having me
source
