So Lucas and James thank you for joining us on the Anthony rley show so glad to have you guys join us this is the H fraternity at Grand Valley State University James is a the president of the chapter this year Lucas is also a m he was Quinn’s roommate so we’re GNA
Have a conversation both about the fraternity and Quinn’s story so guys thank you for joining us on this episode of the Anthony Bradley show thank you for having us we’re very excited so I just want to get some background from both you guys in terms
Of how you ended up both at at gvsu and and rushing and pledging atto so just some background stuff James we’ll start with you first where you from what are what are you majoring in and what do you hope to be doing after you graduate yeah so uh I’m from uh
Chesterfield Michigan it’s about 45 minutes uh Northeast of Detroit it’s right on uh the Lake St Clair there on the north side of it um I went to to Lans Cruz High School North uh for My High School uh big shout out to the Crusaders over there uh they allowed me
To do a lot of uh AP programs which put me ahead um and then while I was doing going there I realized that I wanted to go into business to further my education so I did a quick little Google search on like what uh instate colleges offered
The best uh business programs and Grand Valley was up there in thep top three so I decided that would be the best P place to further my academic career uh once I got here I decided to use those AP credits I earned to uh start earning a
Uh degree in marketing with emphasis on sales and finance uh so being dual majored I was able to uh still graduate a little bit early so I’ll be graduating uh after next fall and then I’ll be heading back to the east side where I just accept accepted uh an offer to be a
Financial advisor at one of the local firms over there oh that’s awesome so you’re basically going to do college in three years I heing that right uh three and a half three and a half James what’s the rush Brother come on it’s fantastic being in college no it is fantastic
Being in college that’s uh that’s what I’m starting to realize I’ve I’ve worked so hard for my entire life to try and get ahead and start like going on and being an adult but now that I’m here and my time in college is almost up I just I
Want to pick up another major or maybe a minor and stay here for a little bit longer it’s it’s sad uh sad that I might be leaving soon yeah that’s exactly what I did I did four and a half years really in part in part to to get one more
Football season in I I graduated from Clemson University in South Carolina go Tigers and I just love the football culture there and so I just wanted to do one more football SE season so I could say longer I didn’t tell my parents that though I just told them I needed to take
Some classes some extra classes in order to graduate but it was really just for one more football season which was which was awesome Lucas how about you how did you end up at gbsu and what are you majoring in and tell us a little bit about what you want to do afterwards so
I’m a sophomore here at Grand Valley I uh am in the accounting major program uh I wasn’t always in accounting major but uh that’s just kind of the path I’ve decided to pick now I’m originally from the East side warn Michigan uh how I ended up at Grand Valley I was
Originally set on going to Michigan State but uh it just didn’t really uh align with what I wanted so uh I ended up uh just applying to Grand Valley State and uh now I’m here and when you guys were in high school were you thinking about being in
A fraternity was that even on your radar was your was your dad in one or how did you when you were in high school what were you thinking about about Greek life uh for for myself personally I I’ve known that Greek life was the place for
Me uh once I got to college uh my dad he was in B zai uh over at karing University when he was in in college and uh we have this wall right by the fridge where they’ keep all the cokes and the Pepsis in there so every time I was a
Little kid and I’d run up and reach the fridge I’d see on the wall his composits uh the paddle that his little gave him pictures from his senior year spring break uh the long drive Championship from uh their time doing the golf outing and just like this little Shrine for
What his his favorite time in college being a part of Greek life was and that I could just tell by the smiles on everyone’s faces and like good times that they’re having that I wanted to be a part of a community like that so I
Knew that once I came to college I was going to be joining great but great how about you Lucas uh I in high school I never really uh considered even joining a fraternity uh I always knew I wanted to be a part of uh something bigger in a
Community something that I could uh I guess change the community with uh I just never really knew until I uh started attending college that it was going to end up at a fraternity so uh I guess I just rushed and uh it’s the best thing that’s I’ve ever done so what what
Was it specifically about about atto when you guys were rushing that made you think you know what this is the group of guys I really wna to spend the rest of my college Years with did was was there something unique that stood out about the Brotherhood about those relationships
Initially uh the the biggest thing for me was they at all the rush events they put a emphasis on our philanthropy uh that’s a big thing for the culture of our chapter here is we like to raise a lot of money for charity uh we for the
Past 10 years raised money for the National anas Society we do this annual event every year it’s called ATL walks hard we walk from Travers City Michigan back down to Allandale over a span of eight days uh it’s a total of 160 miles 20 miles a day and uh for the past 10
Years we Rose money for the national MS Society we had a lot of brothers who knew people or related to people who had Ms so we designed the walk with the intent in mind of experiencing the physical that they experience on a daily basis trying to live life but just
Getting a small taste of that over that eight days to sort of try to understand what they go through uh over those past 10 years we were able to raise 360,000 uh for the MS Society um but uh recently uh last winter uh one of our our fraternity Brothers Quinn uh
Took his own life uh and we knew that we needed to do something a little different uh we had good ties with the MS Society but we needed to raise money for something that mattered to all of us um so we ended up changing the charity that we raised
Money for to the American Foundation For Suicide Prevention and uh we’re doing our walk uh from May 1st through May 8th this year uh to raise money uh sort of to uh honor Quinn and his memory um how about you Lucas what was what was it about about atto that made
You think you know I want I want to be with these guys in particular well originally uh like I said I I never really wanted to rushan Fraternity in the first place but uh my roommate Quinn he he rushed atto and he became a pledge
Here and he just kept pushing me to come out to an event just to come out to the house and meet everybody and once I finally budged uh I came out here uh everybody was just so welcoming uh I one thing that did stick out to me from the
Other fraternity was uh the Christian values and I was always raised in a Christian home so that was something that really stuck out to me but also just how welcoming everybody was like Jamie mentioned the philanthropy uh I’ve always liked doing community work and anything just to give back to the
Community so when they’ve put a big emphasis on that uh that really just stuck out to me and just from everybody being so welcoming open arms uh that truly uh sealed the deal for me and you guys have been in for a couple years or so I’m wondering what’s
How would you describe the difference between your friendships in the fraternity that you have now versus the nature of your friendships in high school what’s what’s different about fraternity friendships versus some of the high school ones that you had or or are there any differences how would you how would you describe
That um all my all my friendships in high school uh they’re they’re my same friends that I I had grown up with my entire life like I had uh a lot of them were either neighbors or friends that I had in my uh Elementary School classes
And we just sort of stuck together all throughout high school so there was that that closeness and that bond that was there for from the very beginning so when I came here to college and I didn’t have that experience that’s what I was sort of looking for from the fraternity to see
If I could form the closeness of those bonds and it became very apparent to me even before my freshman year was up and before I even moved into the fraternity house that these guys were going to be my brothers for life that the closeness of our friendship was matching the
Closeness of my friendship from the people that I had spent my entire life with so just the the quickness that those Bonds were able to be formed uh that was a surprise to to me and then just the the variety of people that you get to meet here um because we we we
Have we have a couple characters and uh I got to say they’re some of my favorites uh the stories that some of these guys tell at chapter meeting uh they have the whole room falling out of their chairs laughing so there’s just so many aspects of it that are just
Different um working together with all all the our friends to work together towards some common goals or to try and Achieve something that is an experience that you don’t really get anywhere else so I I couldn’t be more thankful to be a part of it that’s great you know I have
This this book that’s out called heroic fraternities subtitled how college men can save universities in America and what you just said is exactly you’re like I quote in the book almost what you said is exactly the list of reasons I give at at the end of the book in terms
Of why guys run fraternities I mean it is for the for the camaraderie for the fun having something a mission outside of yourself to do things together that forms those Bonds in such a way that do laugh that do last a lifetime and a lot of people don’t understand that you know
They think sometimes fraternities are just guys just kind of hang on getting drunk but there’s there’s so much more and those bonds that you just talked about are really crucial in in in helping you guys thrive in college I mean it was it was for me and so those
Are the sorts of reasons I mean I think I want more people to to know about it sounds like your chapter has a really good culture in terms of in terms of forming your your Brotherhood that way uh Lucas how about you what’s what was the the difference would you say between
Your high school friendships and and the ones that you’ve formed in the fraternity so far so in high school I was I was a part of the wrestling team for four years and uh like you mentioned uh working hard together for uh like a bigger mission was always uh something
With the wrestling excuse me wrestling team that uh you know we were always trying to win we were always trying to accomplish a feat so uh working hard together in that aspect uh really brought us together in high school but difference with the fraternity is just
In every aspect of life uh it’s working hard in the classroom it’s working hard for these philanthropy events it’s working hard to meet new people and get the biggest pledge class and since I’ve moved into the frity house I’ve really felt every aspect of it and I feel that
The difference of it is because they see me on my good days they see me on my worst days so they really are there for you uh you know sometimes even when you don’t want them to be and that’s just the difference I see and so you guys
Have a house I’m hearing that and how many how many guys are able to live in the house uh we get 26 guys that can live in the house and how would you describe the nature of uh that experience I’m assuming it’s fun on the one hand right you guys are smiling
Right now so so that means there’s there’s stories like when I say living in the fraternity house is fun and both you guys start smiling there’s some stories behind that those Smiles for sure and I’m sure that it’s it’s also fun there’s probably some challenges
That come as well with a with a a group of guys how would you describe what’s it like to be in a in your house in particular yeah so this is actually my second year of living in the in the house I after doing the the required G
Live in the house for a year uh for the bylaws I realize that there’s no Community Living experience like this yes you’re sharing a bathroom with 26 guys it’s sort of like the dorms in that sense but that’s the only thing that’s like the dorms
And I I mean just any time of the day you could walk down the hallway someone’s door is going to be open they’re either going to be playing Madden or 2K or something like that or someone’s going to be Mak like we have a couple DJs in the house uh this year so
Someone’s always mixing a beat together or we have a couple guys that like to Freestyle over those beats there’s always something going on um I would say one of the challenges of living in the fraternity house is trying to get that work life balance I learned very quickly
That you can’t do homework here you have to find another place like even though we do have a study room and if you’re able to get in there before 3:00 dur week it’ll be the house will be quiet and you’ll be able to focus but once the guys start getting out of classes
They’ll start playing pool we’ll have guys we just uh made some new cornhole boards so they’ll start doing that like there’s just so much going on all the time you’re you’re never bored here there’s no oh what am I going to do today if you have that thought you think
Oh let me walk down the hallway and find one of my 26 friends that live with me and see what they’re doing and there’s just always someone there to talk to especially if uh you’re going through something and you need it great how about how about you Lucas how would you
Describe the your experience in the house so far uh I enjoy it because not there’s not one carbon copy of another brother here everybody’s their own person and so you just get the different personalities from everybody you know that if you want to maybe sit back and
Watch a TV show there’s a guy for that if you want to play a game there’s a guy for that if you want to go outside and play some cornhole there’s a guy for that and I like that that it’s just very uh easily accessible here uh like he was
Saying it is a it can get hectic at times I know just a couple nights ago uh it was a Sunday night and there the house was blaring with music walls were shaking because we’re trying to mix in a new DJ set and you know it’s comical and
It’s a lot of fun uh but it it is not a place that you could do homework but I appreciate living here because it does instill into your life uh a good balance yeah I mean it’s a fraternity house you’re with 26 of your really good
Friends you guys are having a lot of fun you’re connecting and talking and hanging out it’s not supposed to be quiet I mean the university has spaces for that like the library you can go you can go get a room somewhere when I was in college I would just go to an empty
Classroom I would just go to a building that had an empty classroom and just study in there yeah oh sometimes by myself with somebody else but in the fraternity house you’re not supposed not supposed to be a study hall kind of environment now some houses at some universities are massive and they do
Have these massive massive quadrants of the house where it is quiet but I think in a context like yours if you told me yeah our house is a is a place where you’re not a where you’re not able to get a lot of work done after 3 o’clock
I’m like perfect I’m like that’s the kind of house if I was a parent I’m like that’s the kind of house I want my son in because it means it means that they’re actually connecting and having a good time and being being together right and helping each other and serving each
Other and and loving on each other and that’s exactly the kind of environment that you want to be in which is why sometimes you don’t want to leave and that’s why you don’t get any work done because you’re having such a great time with your brothers which is a great way
To spend the you know two one or two years in the in the house now is your house the kind of place where Upper classmen that aren’t living there come over and hang out sometimes uh typically they’ll come over and hang out when we host Brotherhood events or uh something along the lines
Or if there’s a uh like a super bowl or something like that uh like some big event will host something at the house and that will draw a lot of the older brothers uh GV has a sort of unique structure on how their campus is laid out uh they’re they have their Allendale
Campus and their Grand Rapids campus uh the Grand Rapids campus that’s where the medical school is that’s where the business school is uh so with a lot of the seniors being in the business program and like all their classes being downtown that’s also where conveniently
All the bars are so as they turn 21 they get into their senior year they move downtown uh you always have a group of fraternity brothers that you still live with so it’s like a mini chapter house like it’s not officially an Annex or anything like that but they’ll they all
The upper classmen will go downtown for their senior year uh so getting them out just on a like random Friday night uh that’s a little bit difficult but trust me they’re still experiencing the Brotherhood down there just in a smaller group setting um but for the older guys
That don’t live in that don’t go downtown and live here I would say they they come out uh quite a bit oh that’s awesome so the way the way the the campus is is laid out out it seems that you have opportunities in your Brotherhood to to no matter where you
Are almost in the state right you can you you can be around your brother either on campus there or downtown or even in Grand Rapids if you go to grad school you can still hang out with some of the people that you knew when you were in undergrad there which is super
Super awesome so James I have some questions really just for you because you’re the president I want to want to give you a chance to sort of pitch if you’re you know kind of pitch atto to America here right I mean if there’s a there’s a some high school parents
Listening to this they’re like should I send my son to Grand Valley State if I do what fraternity should he should he rush and pledge James GNA give you an opportunity to kind of give your best pitch for why atto in your opinion because you should be saying this is the
Best fraternity on the entire campus all right I mean you you have to believe this because you’re you’re the president of the thing yeah what would you say what would you say makes makes atto distinctive you mentioned the philanthropy yeah he well but what what else what is it about about atto that
Makes it distinctive there on the campus of Grand Valley State University well uh it’s it’s just the the quality of the Brotherhood uh I’ve had countless members come up to me after they’ve joined and said that they had rushed a lot of the other big fraternities here but they realized what
As soon as they came to our events they saw the smiles on everyone’s faces how everyone wasn’t just cring them asking them a ton of questions it was hey come over here have a conversation let’s get to know you for you and understand what you like to talk about and really making
Them feel like they actually have a place here and that welcoming nature uh that attracts a lot of just a lot of members uh and that increases uh just diversity and personality so it doesn’t matter if you’re a theater kid it doesn’t matter if you’re a business major we have them
All like we don’t have large demographics for each of them but we have little tastes of pretty much every major here one of our members he’s an RA on campus and training to be a GV security guard you don’t really hear many fraternity Brothers working for the security on campus seems like that’s
Something that we would try to avoid but I think that just speaks volumes to the amount that we allow our well not allow because our brothers can they can do whatever they want but we encourage our brothers to pursue their own goals and push themselves to be the best that they
Can be we are a leadership development fraternity we have every year we reelect 20 leaders for our our fraternity we have 11 on our eboard and then we have another uh nine or 10 appointed positions as well so it gives them lots of of opportunities to step up take a
Lead in the fraternity build something that they want to to build take something that they’re passionate in uh introduce it into the fraternity have fun with it grow themselves as a person and come out on the other side uh just as a more complete individual that’s fantastic one guy I
Know at a a different fraternity on a different campus he basically described fraternity as a master class in leadership development yeah and it sounds like it sounds like your chapter is is really intent on focusing on forming guys so that when they get out they’re not learning leadership skills
For the first time after college they’ve already had an opportunity to to De to develop those with in the Contex of your fraternity and my guess is that that might spill over to other parts of the campus where guys are not just leaders in atto but some of them Al also become
Leaders of other organizations on campus as well uh as a as a as a way of of applying those things that they’re learning within the fraternity which is super super awesome man that’s that’s great congratulations on on having that focus a lot of fraternities don’t don’t
Have that and and the fact that you guys do I think puts you guys ahead of the pack in that way it’s so crucial it’s so crucial for guys to come in and know that when they leave the fraternity they’re going to be a much better man
Than when they when they came in and that you guys are committed as brothers to investig in each other making sure that that happens and it sounds like you guys are are more than willing to to do that with the kinds of things that you do and as you mentioned you have fun
While you’re doing it which is so so cool and crucial as as well I wanna I’m G to read the the creative of hoo I got it from the the website and I want I want to ask you and maybe and maybe James I can I can sorry Lucas I
Can get you in on this one as well just like sort of I’m going to read it and then you guys can both tell me what parts of that really mean a lot to you and why so I I’ll just I’ll I’ll lay it out here and then you guys can respond
And tell me what stands out to you in the fraternity Creed and and why that that part is is important important to you so it says uh that at exists to bind men together in a Brotherhood based upon Eternal and immutable principles with a bond as strong as
Right itself and as lasting as Humanity to know no North no South no East no West but to know man as man to teach that true men the world over should stand together and contend for supremacy of good over evil to teach not politics but morals to Foster not partisanship but the
Recognition of true Merit wherever found to have a narrow were limits within which to work together for the elevation of man than the outlines of the world these were the thoughts and hopes up most in the minds of the founders of the alpatow Omega fraternity so hearing hearing that hearing that that Creed
That I got from the website can you guys just tell me a little bit about any parts of that that really jump out at you that are really really important to you and why uh so for me it’s it’s near the beginning it’s to know no North no
South no East no West but to know man is man the whole theme of the Creed I think you you probably picked up on it but it’s we don’t discriminate against anyone if you are someone who can actually add value or you could gain value from the fraternity we welcome you
With open arms that’s the mindset that I’ve taken especially with my leadership in the fraternity since I I’ve gained the president’s chair um but ever just being a general member that’s something that I embodied it didn’t matter who walked up uh during our Rush Event I
Made sure I talk to every single one I tried to understand who they were as a person and then I would sort of like direct them to the person that would sort of match their personality type uh the best um actually like one of the
People we have right now is a uh a foreign exchange student uh from from Britain uh so the fact that we were able to get him over here learn from his culture have him learn from ours it’s been it’s been a really cool experience and I think that just speaks volume to
Us not caring where you’re from who you are but to recognize you as an individual person and to see the potential values that not only you could bring but you could gain from this experience and so what I’m hearing and and I’ve as I’m listening here on our
Conversation it sounds like you guys are not promoting a stereotype that is in order to be an at you have to look a certain way and address certain way way and be a certain way it sounds like what I’m hearing that you actually care about the
Man yes right like you actually care so what you’re doing is what the Creed says to know man as man you care about the person who he is not that he fits this model or this mold right so so you’re not looking for someone to fit into some
Random uh caricature of what you want toone and to be like but you guys actually care about the person who he is his heart his story and things like that that’s that’s super super awesome Lucas how about how about for you what what part of the the create sort of jumps out
To you and why it mentions uh working together for the elevation of man than the outlines of the world and I’m not speaking man uh like James and I right here I’m speaking man as the whole society as a community uh that’s why we put such an emphasis on our community
Service and our philanthropy even uh in our day-to-day lives uh if you see somebody falling behind you pick them up uh we have study groups in case you’re falling behind in class we have a lot of guys in this chapter go to the gym so there’s always somebody that you can go
Get a good lift in with uh it’s just about picking everybody up and just uh giving somebody uh morality I guess around the community as a whole yeah that’s really great I I think a lot of people don’t don’t realize that fraternity Brothers really do a lot to
Support each other and and to keep each other accountable to being excellent men and that you guys actually care about that and and want to do that and like I said earlier you join atto you pledge it and then when you’re a senior and you’re graduating you’re just a much better man
Than you were when you when you started and that’s because you guys are really sharpening each other and and really investing in that and I hope I hope gentlemen that you’re not skipping leg day I just want to put that out there do not Skip Leg Day you can get as soil as
You want you know upper body but you cannot do not Skip Leg Day make sure you’re you’re doing that and that’s part of the accountability right we got to do leg day bro we got to do need to need to yes AB absolutely absolutely and I want
To sort of transition here now and kind of talk about some of the experiences that you guys have had in some of the changes in your culture in in lot of a tragedy that you had uh recently you mentioned earlier James that you had a a member who who tragically took his life
And that that changed some of the trajectory of your of your philanthropy I’m I’m I’m curious to know more about about that story and I’m wondering if if you could just sort of tell us a little bit about how you came to discover what happened and and
Anything that you could in help us uh frame the circumstances of that that event what what would you say in terms of telling us what would happened there um well I I I guess I I’ll go first for this one uh I I had just gotten back uh
From the library that night and I walked into the house and as I’m walking to the house I hear sirens on sirens on Sirens heading towards campus and I didn’t know what was going on I went and I sat down on my like in my room and started doing
My typical nightly routine and I just I heard a knock on the door and uh one of my brothers his name is Jesse he came up and he’s like hey I need to I need to talk to you really quick uh and he asked
Me if if I heard about Quinn and I was I thought that it was uh something to do with like his membership I was like oh he Dro and he just said no do you hear the sirens those those we think those are for him um so we just we got
Everyone uh to the house uh together as a community and uh we just started supporting each other there was a lot of denial in the room not thinking that something like that could actually happen um because uh I think especially for a large majority of the chapter it
Blindsided all of us um it wasn’t something that we saw coming um and it yeah no it was just a a really a really rough time uh especially like at the at the start in those following days and so what what year was he and how long had he been in the
Fraternity um so he was he was a freshman actually and that he just got he just got initiated um right before he took his life um so what what time of year was that would that have been it uh December um early December and how many weeks did do you
Guys normally pledge there uh the the entire fall semester uh okay so yeah he our our Rush events were the first week of the year um like well the first week that we let you do your classes and get your syllabus week done but then uh as
Soon as like like that was done we bring them out for Rush events and he was someone that uh stood out to all of us uh I mean he’s had he had the best hair I’ve ever seen uh he had luscious locks he he looked like a rockar and every
Time he smiled it lit up the room he made sure he had a conversation with everybody he was probably one of the most socialable people I’ve ever met and when I say he brighten the mood in every single room that he walked into just with his presence his demeanor everything like
That I mean I he he was one of the best of us he was someone that we all look to as this is a future leader of our fraternity this is someone that is capable of doing great things and bringing us together as a chapter
Um we just didn’t think that it would it would happen in the way that it did right and and Lucas he was your roommate and can you can you tell us a bit about what you remember about him how you enjoyed him uh you know F first
Meeting him what did you think about you know the kind of guy that he was and and what your relationship was like there in your room that you shared together I mean moving day I remember it uh he jumped up instantly and just started helping me unpack my things he had moved
In uh before me so he uh yeah he instantly jumped up help in hand and just uh just the way he composed himself he was a very confident guy uh he was not scared of anybody anything he uh he would go into any situation with uh his
Head held high he he actually uh helped me break me out of my shell a little bit um he definitely was uh he was a kind-hearted dude he definitely a ladies man as well well uh he had a good way with his words he uh he introduced me
Actually to the fraternity so I uh I wouldn’t be here right now if it wasn’t for him and uh I appreciate him with that we would uh we would always bounce fun facts off of each other we both were very sharp minded people uh we took
Interest in a lot of the same things uh we’ play video games late at night we’d go to the gym together go to the cafeteria together uh we really uh we really kind of intertwined our lives together and uh that was uh that was something I really
Appreciated about him as a friend and as a roommate that uh we both had a common respect with each other and there uh there wasn’t never really a dull moment with him yeah it sounds like you guys had a great relationship as his roommates and you mentioned that it was blind right so
At tvsu they just put you guys together you didn’t sort of is that is that right yeah I had uh I texted him it was like a couple times over the summer once I got my assignment and we’re just like all right I’m moving in on this day you’re
Moving in on this day sweet I’ll see you there and then uh once we move in it was uh people thought we we went to high school together we were long friends we just like that we were just uh hit it off and do you remember a point where
You realize you know what this is I’m I’m actually pretty pretty blessed to have this guy as my as my roommate was that was it immediate did it take a while how would you describe like you know uh if it wasn’t immediate it was uh
It was like a weekend you know uh I mean immediately the bond was there you could tell that we both uh we liked each other and it just it just kept growing from there it was all up from there we uh we just kept hitting it off and the more
And more we talked the more and more we found uh that we had similarities that we took interest in the same things and that truly just grew our bond together uh and we just took on Grand Valley as a whole and what was he majoring in was he studying business or something
Like that I I think he was undecided he he didn’t what he wanted to do but uh I know he was just in his gen Ed classes right then and there great and so for either one of you you know what often happens in these situations is people don’t realize that
That our brothers are struggling and then they they do something pretty tragic and and then you find all this stuff out after the fact was there any indication on your on your side that he was he was struggling internally did you have a sense of that he he never really mentioned something
In the present moment but uh he did mention in the past that he was struggling with something and he would always say that he was over it and not to worry and you know I took his word on it he was very convincing uh and you
Know I always would go the extra step and make sure he was was okay uh but it was just you know I’m fine I’m okay so there was never really a a set indication about something about him and his mannerisms never really changed they were uh they were pretty clear-cut since
When I first met him to you know so I can’t really see any indication I didn’t see him distancing himself it was yeah yeah it’s it’s actually pretty pretty that way in terms of of not knowing because they often are the the liveliest people at the party they’re the most social
They’re actually often are the people telling the most jokes and things like that James you you GNA add something there yeah I I was just going to say from my my perspective like not someone as his roommate like I lived in the house at the time I would see him and
Lucas would come over and practice their pool skills because I mean that’s something that we do a lot here is we play a lot of pool and and it was about two weeks the two weeks leading up to finals week which was um the the weekend
Before is when he he tragically took his life uh he wasn’t coming around as much and uh when we we talked like I I sort of picked up on it but when I was asking around I was like Hey where’s Quinn I haven’t seen him in a while everyone
Just said oh we talked to him he’s studying he’s like wanting to finish the semester strong and I was like okay good on him I’ll I’ll let him Focus up and uh I I guess that wasn’t exactly the case um but I I hindsights 2020 I I
Guess I could have reached out but it didn’t it didn’t seem necessarily out of the ordinary the the night that it happened uh I was actually told the same thing he said I was uh going out with our other sweet mates uh so it was uh it
Was a sweet uh forers I was his roommate and then we had a bathroom that connected uh to two other roommates I was going out with them uh I had finished all my work for the week and he said that he was just going to go to the
Library and he had a paper to finish you know totally normal nothing you’d expect it’s week before finals so there was no reason not to believe what he was saying absolutely and and that’s so so common as I’ve sort of tracked through some of the situations like this and
Other chapters of fraternities across the country it’s just sort of normal behavior and then the person tragically takes their life and I think a lot of times the brothers feel like they should have could have would have you know kind of ruminates I wish I reach I wish I had
Done that but there was really nothing out of out of the ordinary that would have that would have you know primed someone to do that and I think had there been in most cases they would have and so I think sometimes there’s the sort of feelings of guilt and maybe some shame
And a regret that guys did not do as much as they could have but you really can only do the best that you can with the information that you have and if he seems seemed okay and he said he’s he’s okay and and you’ve only known him for
You know just a few months I guess in some cases there’s not not a lot you you could have done how how would you guys describe how it changed both you personally and then maybe the maybe the Brotherhood how how did how would you describe how how it affected
You and in the culture of your of your chapter oh so for myself personally I took it I took it pretty hard um dealing with with mental health uh that’s something that I not to that degree but I struggled with um so to see that he
Was struggling with it and I couldn’t do anything about it or I didn’t pick up on the signs that made me realize that there was more that I could be doing just throughout my day-to-day I don’t need to wait for those signs um so I have been preaching having mental health
Uh in the Forefront of people’s minds uh I’ve been trying to be there as a resource anytime I hear anyone is down I tell them that they can use me as a resource that I may not have the the training of going to an actual therapist
But I will be there to listen I’m not going to try and give you advice but but you will be heard uh and I just try and make sure that message is out there even if I’m not close with you and you just need to place the vent just come to me
Uh so that’s something that I just started doing personally uh as a chapter um we we always we always did something called H small groups where we get groups of six to 10 guys uh together and it’s just a free flowing conversation there’s three or four fun little prompt
Questions that like we would ask and then you go around the room and it sort of like breaks the ice a little bit but then after that it’s just a free flowing conversation you can talk about uh anything that like you need help with uh you can just have a conversation with
Guys uh it’s allowed the chapter to get a lot um closer and meet some of the guys that they wouldn’t necessarily have met in these large group settings because they hang out with different groups so doing the small group uh aspect that is something that we’ve increased um since quin’s passing
We try to do more of them to make sure that these bonds are being made that people know that they can talk to us that it’s an open environment that we’re each other’s Brothers what they say in those rooms aren’t going anywhere else like we’re here for each other and then
As I mentioned before we Chang our our philanthropy event like we’ve worked very in uh closely with MS Society for so long but we reached out to them and we told them what happened and that we needed to make a change for these reasons there was nothing against them
They were very very supportive of us um so now that we’re using the American Foundation For Suicide Prevention um there’s there’s a lot of fire behind the guys and getting that that walk put together and trying to Raise a lot of money um for for Quinn to make sure that a story like his doesn’t have to happen again um that those who need the help can get it and that’s that’s all that we’re really trying to accomplish uh with that how about you
Lucas he was he was your roommate and I’m sure you’re pretty pretty devastated by how did it how did it affect you and and did you change the way way that you lived in the in the house and with your brothers yeah so uh you know I’d see
That kid day in day out I knew what he was eating for breakfast lunch and dinner and his favorite snacks all of that stuff and it uh it really I went through a phase of beating myself up over it because if I could know all those things about him know his
Manorisms and just not see this coming be blindsided by it uh it really took a toll on me uh and beat me up and it made me uh rethink how I how go about my friendships with people and uh it that took a long face to get over that but
How I’ve uh how I’ve grown from that and how I’ve uh changed from that is you know I’ve always uh I make more of an emphasis to reach out not just to go hang out with somebody but you know to know how somebody’s doing like in a
Deeper way I uh I try to be a rock for people that may be struggling with same issues that he was and just know that I I am a person that they can talk to especially in our community uh College can get hard as everybody knows so I
Really just try to uh I try to ensure that you know maybe we can avoid this in the future and that people know that I can be a safe person to come and talk to yeah I think is important for people to to recognize and and remember James I
Think I think you said it perfectly like you’re not there to give advice uh but you are there to listen and people know that in the fraternity because the Brotherhood is so solid that it’s a safe place to be vulnerable and to talk about The Good the Bad and the Ugly and I
Think what’s important for people to say especially because you’re on a University campus there’s a Counseling Center on campus and that and that you guys will recommend that people go see someone you’ll defer to someone right and you can help them get help if they if they need help right some issues may
Be greater than than others but for the the really hard things because you’re on a University campus because there’s resources there you will help your brothers get help and I think I think it’s important for guys to know that when you’re in a fraternity you’re you’re you’re not just you’re not just
With a Brotherhood but you’re with people who are going to work on your behalf to make sure that you get the help and the and the resources that you that you need our our campus is uh actually very very supportive in that in that field we
As students uh as long as you don’t have like you’re not actively seeking help on your own and like have an actual therapist that like you talk to on a regular basis you get 10 free counseling sessions uh each school year um so that’s something that I keep reminding
The chapter that they have those to use it’s already in our tuition so you might as well you might as well go and use it and get that help like it may not seem like the biggest issue in your mind but just talking to someone to deal with the
Stress of college the the stress of just managing setting up your the rest of your life that’s a lot that people have to deal with and I think the culture of just men in general is we don’t like to be vulnerable we don’t like to talk
About what’s bothering us we want to be that rock and that pillar for everyone else but at the end of the day we need to take care of ourselves and using those counseling sessions that is a way that we can do that uh Grand Valley also
Has what they call The CARE program The CARE program is a a portion of gb’s website you just go to the search bar and you type in care and you’re able to anonymously report that someone that you know you’ve noticed they’ve been mentally struggling they’re not willing to go and seek the
Help out on their own but you can’t sit there as a bystander so you can go and anonymously report to the counseling center that someone is struggling and that they should be reached out to so and then that just prompts a call from one of the counselors they try talking to them see
What’s going on and see if they can convince them to already to go in for a session and get the help that they need so that’s something that we communicate to the chapter uh quite heavily making sure that they know those resources are there because College while it’s the
Best times of Our Lives it’s not always the easiest so using the resources that we have available is something that we we place quite the emphasis on yeah I think I think you you said it well about about men not wanting to be vulnerable and not wanting to admit that
They then they need help I I think there’s a confusion that if guys say I need help that they’re that that they will assume that people think they’re weak and it’s actually the opposite if you’re a guy who’s willing to say I need help you’re actually really strong
Because you recognize that in order for me to be the kind of man that that I can be to benefit other people I I I’ve really need to be in a good place and I can’t do that unless I get some help so to say that I need to get some help is
Is really a sign of strength because you’re honest enough to know that you need some resources and and help to kind of be the man that that that you want to be in the future which is really really extraordinary and you know there there’ll be other there’ll be other
People from other fraternities across the country who are listening to this conversation I’m wondering for for both of you what what sorts of things how would you how would you make a case for why caring about each other’s mental health within your chapter is is a really important thing how would you
Describe that I mean we’re we’re brothers for life uh We’ve made this dedication for each other um that’s why we join the fraternity why wouldn’t you want them to to have the best possible life that they can uh part of that is making sure that they can get the help
That they need if they need it making sure that you are there for them when they need you to be there for them it only takes a little bit of your time or your energy to go and make that little step that could potentially save someone’s life so in my eyes there’s no
Excuse to not just go that extra mile because it’s not an extra mile it’s an extra 15 seconds of sending someone to text hey are you doing okay I haven’t seen you around I’m worried about you it’s walking 20 feet down the hallway knocking on someone’s
Door saying hey you haven’t been to the last two chapter meetings you said that you love chapter meetings what’s going on let’s talk things through it’s just that little extra effort that goes such a long way for the people who are struggling and and feeling like they’re alone because they have this community
Here they just need to be reminded that they can take advantage of it uh yeah I feel that uh Brotherhood as a whole you would want them to do the same thing for you if you were struggling so why wouldn’t you do it for them if like Jamie was saying if you see
Somebody struggling if you were struggling you would want them to reach out to you when you feel alone and you feel isolated so you need to get that same support and that same care that you would expect that people you would expect people to inow on yourself I mean that’s what a A
Brotherhood is I mean this is a family right and I think I think if we actually want to be if we want to say it’s a Brotherhood we actually have to act like it and and that means that it’s The Good the Bad and the Ugly and one of the the
Invitations I think of being in fraternity is that you’re pledging yourself to open yourself up uh so that guys can really speak into your life and that and that means that you need to be willing to be vulnerable and to I’ll say it this way to do it when you’re sober because you
Know guys get vulnerable when they’re drunk right it’s like oh man you know like that’s when the tears come that’s when I love you’s come that’s when like I’m struggling I need help but we need to be able to be to be sober and vulnerable at the same time which takes
A lot more courage actually to to do that and so the fact that I think you guys are zeroed in on that I if more fraternities were were centered in on those sorts of things it would just make the the entire culture and I think the
Entire campus culture a lot a lot better as we wrap up here I’m wondering what would you hope for your chapter in the future in terms of of Quinn’s Legacy what would you like to to have the chapter be thinking about and reflecting on in terms of of of Quinn’s experience
What sorts of things would you want his leg Legacy to be in the chapter to remain as a part of the culture for generations and and generations to come on the campus there well I I think part of his legacy is the amount of the impact that he made
In the short time that he was a part of this chapter he made a bond with every single one of the members it didn’t matter if you were the most shy guy in the world he made an effort to go and talk to you and actually make some
Connection he had something unique that he would be able to say and Converse about with every single person in the chapter so his biggest thing while he was here was impact and the impact that he made after he was gone I mean his funeral had like close
To what a thousand people at it insane like are it was almost every single chapter from Grand Valley like Greek LifeWise like they came to support uh we are working together with them to get a memorial place on campus I have a a meeting with the dean uh coming up soon
Uh so we’re trying to make sure that his legacy is not forgotten but part of what we’re doing to honor that is like I mentioned the the philanthropy event that we’re doing uh we’re working hard as a chapter to make that go as smoothly as possible and
Raise as much money as possible but the listeners they they can help uh if they would like uh if they go to the American foundation for suicide preventions website uh and then click on events endurance events and search atoc Capa Lambda it will show up uh with our
Donation page uh you can continue to donate from uh well you can just you can just donate to it there’s not really a time limit but uh this year’s walk will be taking place from May 1st through May 8th so uh Hey follow us on Instagram pay
Attention to the Walk we’re going to be posting a lot about it and continuing to make his legacy turn into something that helps other people as well uh because he helped a lot of us uh just grow as people and we sort of want to continue that
On nice how about how about you James sorry Lucas no you’re um yeah I I wasn’t in the chapter before he was uh but it really brought everybody together it and it still has brought people together and people are still can I restart that yeah of course
Yeah uh I wasn’t in the chapter we rushed at the same time but once that happened it really brought everybody together and that culture has still continued till now uh like James said the philanthropy all of that but it really has uh instilled a camaraderie around here that everybody’s here for
Each other and I just want that Legacy to continue on till after James graduates after I graduate just for generations of this chapter to come I uh I really think that it it’s an important thing to be there for each other and not many chapters around the country uh truly understand
What that Brotherhood means it’s not about just having buddies to go out and drink with but really having people to be there for one another and I hope that culture around this chapter stays for many many years to come well gentlemen based on based on
What I’ve heard today I think if if I was a if I was rushing fraternity at gvsu I’d be a fool not to pledge ATL I mean you be you’d be an idiot right I mean seriously who doesn’t want what you guys just say said I I really am so
Encouraged and I think if if I was a parent and I was standing in my kid to G gvsu I’m telling him hey you at least have to check these guys out even if you’re not thinking about fraternity you can you know Rush a bunch go visit them
But this is one of the ones you have to visit or you’re not coming home for Christmas right it’s like you have to you have to at least go by and tell me that you with these guys and I I think I think you know part of what that that
Legacy is you know you you you mentioned Lucas that you guys are are there for each other and if if that if that alone if that alone is something that carries for generations and generations to come your fraternity will not only be huge but also be sustainable and and you’ll
Be you living out the the exact words of the Creed to to bind men together in a Brotherhood and that’s exactly what it seems that you guys are on the trajectory to do and and Quinn contribution to that culture that we’ll live on for generations to come there
There’s a phrase in the Eastern Orthodox Church when someone passes away that it says may their memory be Eternal and and it’s it’s my hope and and my prayer for for your chapter that Quinn’s memory will be Eternal uh for for you and and for the brothers yet to
Come in your in your chapter gentlemen thank you so much for telling us about your story and and Quin Legacy as as I mentioned in the beginning of of my book I was on Instagram and I saw the posting about about Quinn’s story and it changed the whole trajectory of the project for
Me and so I’m a massive massive fan of your chapter I had some discussion with his mom and she just really was so encouraging about how the brothers came around her and and supported her it was just an extraordinary example of how heroic you guys are I have this phrase
Where one of the things that it means to be a great man is to use your strength your creativity your power your presence to to benefit your brothers and other people the fact that you guys were so caring for his mother in this situation to be other centered even in that in
That sense Beyond yourselves caring about her is really really extraordinary and really was a was a blessing blessing for her so I’m extremely extremely excited about your chapter’s future and I think with the kind of men that I’ve been talking to right now if if your chapter if you guys represent the the
Sort of basic core of of what your chapter’s like in terms of the quality of been there it’s it’s an extraordinary place and like I said I think if I was rushing and pledging and thinking about that as a even as a high school student
But as a as a freshman would be an absolute fool not to pledge this this fraternity gentlemen thank you thank you so much and it was it was a delight to have you on the show thank you yeah thank you thank you
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