Hello welcome back to the Masonic Round Table a weekly program where masons from around the world get together to talk about Masonic news and opinions in a friendly and social manner as a reminder the thoughts and the opinions expressed here are solely the opinions of the participants and and do not represent
Any Grand La statements or positions make sure you keep your conversations open for the public and on the level to interact with us we love seeing you every Thursday night so uh hop up in the chat on Facebook or on YouTube and we always have a good time there and
Remember your chats might make a not to the show and if you can’t catch us live you can always catch the replays or in your favorite podcasting app you know me my name is John ruark I am a pmas of the Patriot l number 1957 in Fairfax Virginia all right next
Up for his introduction Joe Martinez how’s it going Joe wow I’m I’m never next um you threw me you threw me for a loop I did I did hello Namaste and welcome uh Joe Martinez let’s see still worshipful master of Manassa LGE number 182 member
In a whole bunch of other places and uh yeah not in in an undisclosed location like uh like John so damn glad to be here yes all right super cool and next up for his introduction Jason Richards how’s it going Jason it’s good how are
You John I am great yes I am I am on travel but having a good time wouldn’t miss the show yeah unlike Robert unlike Robert was out tonight um my name is Jason Richards I’m past Master vacation LOD number 16 in clipton Virginia and current honorary Tyler of Manassa Lodge 182 in Manasses
Virginia ameritus for life I mean I’m okay with being Tyler or merus for Vanessa it’s fine at least until December from Antarctica Antarctica wow I know awesome it’s pretty cool got do that again I don’t know Doug might keep me outside the door next year we’ll see I was kind of
Looking forward to sitting outside okay you can that’s fine and I I think we’ll still have our or or Tyler Meritus but yeah um I can I can take it like you don’t me I get it I I do anyway let’s shout out to the patrons
You guys rock my socks so support the show head over to patreon.com theic Round Table and keep this education going for many years to come yeah or until it stops being fun yes almost 10 years in not do it l and it’s still fun it’s still fun all right it’s that time
Again tarot card of the week Jason what deck are you pulling from tonight all right tonight we have the golden black cat tarot yeah it’s pretty and it’s huge which means it’s a royal pain in the booty to shuffle but uh there’s a there some big black cards it’s it’s not the
Size it’s your intuition yes and how you use them so all right so going over to the handy dandy tarot cam with our awesome TMR coaster let’s see what do we got here o that’s exciting I can’t wait we’ve got the Two of Wands look at that oh
Nice so Two of Wands recognizing that you’ve got a choice to make you you know wands are associated with the element of fire you know often emblematical of manifestation and creation and spiritualism yes absolutely project management manifestation creation I mean so you have a choice to make Discovery
Yeah like go out and go out and discover something be awesome yeah twos are always those binary ones where you get like the lovers you get the the two of Swords the Two of Wands they’re always ones for me that are like you got have a hard choice
To make like unlike the two of Swords where she’s blindfolded yep right where it’s like you’re you’re you’re stopping yourself you’re holding yourself back from making a choice Two of Wands is much more active right like okay you know you have a choice to make you better go make a good
One well and and you see the the cat essentially has has the the world in his paw right and so it’s really like you can you you’re between two paths but you can really manifest your your own destiny across the world and the Universe I love it cool boom
Cool well thanks for that no problem all right tonight’s topic so this is one that’s uh kind of interesting something that’s bothered me for quite a while which is is how come things don’t always line up the way they’re supposed to be done or the way they’re said they’re
Done or the way we’re told they should be um so you know what grinds my ears right so it’s just it’s just so strange because the more you start going deeper down this Masonic rabbit hole and the longer you’re Mason you start finding things that may not always be as they seem May
Contradict the ritual Believe It or Not So tonight we’re going to explore some of those some of them are jurisdictional some some of those are just Flatout Curiosities of our fraternity so let’s dive into it um Joe you want to pick one to start with and we’ll get all fired
Up oh yeah let’s let’s do it all right so let’s start with um start with an annoying one aprons two are aprons so yeah so all of us here are Travelers and we travel to other jurisdictions and we love to do masonry in other places yes uh we’ve all
Been in many lodges across many jurisdictions in this nation overseas we’ve traveled um so we get to wear our aprons in a lot of places and my biggest pet peeve is that no no one has decided how to wear their apron in a masonic lodge uh you go to
Some places and they wear them outside their coats or outside their their jackets right and some other places like in Virginia they wear them inside the coats and inside the jackets um so yeah so if we’re all uh if we’re all supposed to be the same yeah why are there so
Many different ways to wear we are a universal Brotherhood with lots of different ways to do it yeah Brotherhood and name only sometimes um yeah yeah yeah the past two times that I have gone out of state to present um I have been informed in one case rather
Rudely that uh I was wearing my apron incorrectly and what just so you’re aware like that’s not a way to like make friends with the speaker I know one of those one of those times yeah were like no the latest the latest one in in Colorado the the master uh made a
Comment in I serve at the will and pleasure of the master of his LOD well that’s nice but um I’ve had people that have come to lodges in Virginia to come visit and they wear their aprons uh you know how they want and this that the other thing
And the common consensus I’ve seen and I’ve been to many jurisdictions and so have you guys is for the most part unless you get a cranky dude that wants to be in your face is you wear your apron according to the rules of your jurisdiction interesting cuz I’ve heard
The because you’re not a prick as Master I’ve heard but I’ve heard just the opposite my mentor early on said you do the one in Rome play you know do what Romans do it’s true and so um you just kind of look around and follow along
Right so but you’re still not a Roman right so you’re a you’re still a a Philistine when you walk into that right so you’re not a Roman you get you don’t get to sit at the big boy table and make decisions and vote and things you are a
Guest so do you do you act like a guest or do you act like a member you know a diplomat yeah exactly yeah which then related right you have the Opposites true usually most jurisdictions they will have a separate formal ceremony like for for public events Cornerstone
Laying parades that kind of thing and you might find that to be the opposite case of what they wear in a tile Lodge versus then they would do the opposite so again in in Virginia we wear our aprons under our coats ex Lodge except for except for public
Ceremonies that take place exactly my point Outdoors right so yeah so that’s kind of strange but then the opposite is true in other jurisdictions and you’re muted Joe it wasn’t me this time I actually I know I actually like Virginia’s rule um because that was James mother Hub um you’re gonna get
Me to really not yes no as you were saying before you so rudely muted yourself twice in a row yeah okay might happen again so you’ve been in other jurisdictions Joe yeah um you’ve been all around those jurisdictions right so that was my point yeah so um Virginia are there any other
Jurisdictions besides Virginia where you wear it on the inside have yall been to one I’m trying to think okay so that’s good for if you’re watching the show throw it in the chat yeah chime in when when you’re in Lodge is it under or over so something to think about we
Watch that we’ll keep Mo said Israel they wear on the inside look at that there you go brother Mo for the save Florida Florida wear I’m on the inside all places I’m I’m gonna visit because then I don’t have to butt in my coat indeed yes agreed New Hampshire love it love
It cool okay well while we’re on the topic of aprons um there’s also times during the ceremony when I going to give anything away where we wear aprons differently as we go through the ceremonies and some are some are some real head scratchers yes they are where did this
Come from I don’t even know wait you say master Mason’s wear him that way what I don’t see right okay so so we were gonna be vague on this but so and I I literally had a head scratch I went to uh can’t talk we can talk
About him because he’s not here I went to RJ’s Lodge a couple weeks ago and they did a Master Mason degree and they did the apron correctly and which cemented my my anger over doing the apron incorrectly right because it makes no damn sense right right you put this apron in this weird
Way and then 10 minutes later wear wear as a dry cornered hat yeah you just gave all the secrets oh I violated my obligation wait which one we’ll get to that later remember your oats so yeah I mean and again that’s another thing I find extremely
Ironic again if we supposed to be a universal fraternity with recognition we should at least get something as simple as how to wear your apron right you know that’s a basic thing it’s kind of like the EM mode of recognition right yeah you know I think that well I mean for me
What what especially with this this particular not the just wearing them everyday to meetings because we know things change over time but when did this actually diverge right back in the day like you’ve got your early 18th century Freemasonry I’m sure people were doing kind things kind of sort of similarly
Like when did it diverge is my question yeah so yeah I mean what I would default back to is like a Mason’s words right by Robert Davis when you look at how Preston web were like just going up and down the coast and everything trying to spread
Ritual right how much of that got adopted because you know even us as traveling men when we go to different jurisdic like oh we use the same ritual as Virginia and I’m like well that’s not what I heard because it still changed a little bit and so you wonder the 200 300
Year game of telephone that once they started writing it down then um yeah it well it becomes a hard to trace sorry I thought you were done but you’re you’re actually breaking up um we we tend to forget too we had this thing in the 1840s called the Baltimore Convention
Right and that where some people got some some jurisdictions got together and decided things for everybody else and not all of them were there and not all of them were represented so there were changes made there you know with grips and words and things and you know just
To spice things up and change it around you know so it could have then it could have been a byproduct of this wanting to change things around as well I agree all right Jason what’s the next one so you know on writing on the coiles of the Baltimore Convention of
1843 how about the fact that you are pronounced a brother at your enter Apprentice degree but at least in a bunch of jurisdictions you can’t attend the Brothers meetings until you raised a Master Mason that’s a good one you’re a second class citizen not necessarily I mean
Well no I no he’s no I I I see what he’s saying well it’s uh that’s that’s a bigger contradiction in and of itself I mean we’re we’re both a member of a jurisdiction where they can meet for business on the Entered Apprentice degree yep and your entered apprentices
Come in and they have they can take officer chairs and they can do most things that a Master Mason can do but then we’re also a member of a jurisdiction where everything happens in a master Mason’s Lodge um yeah that’s nice but some of them one pays dos and
One doesn’t there so I mean that’s that’s the big difference there I can’t even pronounce that name um yes so whoever that was yes a brother is a brother until he gets a dues card so um unless he’s not yeah but yeah it’s just I find it interesting
That um some jurisdictions will and I think many jurisdictions now can open on a lower degree to do business and have her have it be more inclusive and things like that but some are just not there yet well we’re not talking about the jurisdictions that have to open on one
Degree and then go up and then go up again for a degree and then go down and down again that’s poo that’s also how to how to waste six hours in a lodge oh yeah takes a long time to go walk through those degrees
Yeah uh next one I want to talk about is temperance right we teach about the Masonic virtue of temperance and how we have a stationed officer whose sole job is to promote Temperance and keep an eye on the brothers and Jason your keyboard is so loud tonight you are you it is
It’s like it’s like it’s like you’re playings no clicks from Joe’s rings so anyway um yeah so Temperance right we have we have a stationed officer who is responsible for keeping an eye on the Brethren and making sure that uh they don’t have a little too much sauce at
The the Afterparty or the uh the the fested board but yet in some jurisdictions specifically I’m thinking of Virginia we are a dry jurisdiction so we have in our except for uh like table ritual yes ritual but we have in our bylaws that you uh you can’t even have alcohol on
The premises means if you have a whole football field of property like manasse you can’t have a a closed alcoholic container all the way you know on the other side of the field yeah do not have a six-pack of beer in your trunk while you are parked in a you know parking
Lodge of a masonic lodge yeah so that there’s an obvious contradiction there right because um because then we all say oh well all the all the brothers just go leave Lodge and go to the bar great so then why why can’t we uh do that responsibly at the lodge right why have
A junior Warden yeah why have that the responsibilities of of of the junior Warden right and then again being traveling man going to other jurisdiction where they not only you know have uh they embibe after Lodge they also have it downstairs in their basement with a fully stock bar and it’s
It’s a fantastic experience right because they are being their Brother’s Keeper they are being responsible and they look out for each other I think that’s that’s just a beautiful thing and it works so so no I I completely agree and and we’ve all been present in lodges where the fellowship is amazing and
We’re all responsible for one another and we don’t act like you know idiots um so you’re allowed to be a grown-up in the presence of alcohol and not do stupid crap it’s amazing it it happens infrequently but you know in a masonic lodge it actually happens all the time
But um yeah I I find that super interesting that we it’s in our ritual to be temperate but it’s impossible to be temperate when you’re told no I mean it’s like absence only education right that’s funny right and someone well and I think I won’t name individual jurisdictions
But I can speak for one that you know the the common misconception is that oh it’s a hold over from prohibition no it’s not I mean a lot of the jur some jurisdictions you know have been dry since prohibition and I get it that’s you know it’s it’s a throwback to
A time where it was illegal to drink in this country but for a certain jurisdiction that I’m a member of it became law in the 1980s so somebody just got a wild bug up their butt and said noas alcohol and so it has nothing to do with prohibition it has nothing to do
With alcohol being illegal it’s just somebody um you know like got a wild hair and and ended the party so poop indeed all right who wants the next one what’s the next one it back to you Joe or Jason go ahead Joe no no no uh let’s
Go with um oh this one I just saw recently uh so we’re all Masons and we recognize one another yes for the most part in in most regular Prince Hall jurisdictions there is some sort of recognition y but if you travel to different jurisdictions and listen to degrees you will hear slightly different
Obligations what yeah so which which is weird sometimes quite different yeah entire section’s missing looking Pennsylvania yes or and and I just recently traveled to Illinois and I sat for a Master Mason degree and there were some big chunks missing from there and I was like oh we’re all on the level
Though right there so many of them are we the same kind of Mason if we took different obligations yeah that that just seriously that one irks me just from a like the literalism part of it like yeah that they took a different obligation and so therefore I’m not saying one is
Better or worse I’m just saying there is an inequality that we are just going to look over it’s like you know I’m trying to like relate it I mean guess a really bad metaphor here would be like you know your your local state driver’s license gives you the ability to drive in other
Jurisdictions that may have different laws right so you passed your driving test that could allow for right turn on red but in other states they don’t allow right turn on red so you know you’re still allowed to drive we’re all in the same road together but some people took
Different driving tests I will still make a right turn on red no matter where I am so because that’s me because I got stuff to do and places to go so okay then yeah so that just from a logistical standpoint that just blows my mind I don’t know well and it it causes
Problems on social media to just from the standpoint of PR so Jason everything causes problems on social media you’re not wrong no but you know we get we get the provincial Masons as Nick Johnson liked to term them in the Facebook groups they’re like well hey I remember
My obligation but nobody else here does it’s always like which one it’s it’s kind of when someone’s like well it’s in the Bible and I’m like which translation exactly yes ah good times good times oh I got another thing about obligation um oh yeah there are some jurisdictions that
For a while now have taken out major sections uh like the penalties yes that’s right there are some jurisdictions quite a few jurisdictions um and many overseas too that no longer have the penalty aspect of the obligations there anymore what if it’s an allegory what if it’s a spirit of the obligation
Well can can the spirit of something be binding upon you like if you think of the if you think of the obligation as a contractual binding agreement with we’re not legally married we’re just spiritually married so you know don’t worry about it which is like the
Same kind of rationale that is uh yeah it it’s the same rationale for why the Holy Bible in some jurisdictions must be on the Altar and you can’t use you know an empty book emblematical of you know your preferred vssl because there’s there’s a binding contractual um piece to to that
Obligation well there you go there there’s another contradiction right just going to keep chomping my my alligator hands I think um Hungry Hungry Hippo cuckoo kangaroo I think uh in Illinois they were trying to bring up the addition to change some of the wording so it doesn’t
Say the Holy Bible and allows the right the Brethren of different faiths to hear the words that represent their vssl so well there are there are jurisdictions that use terms like volume of sacred law in place of you you know an actual name scripture which I think is inclusive and it doesn’t disparage
People um you know but the the converse of that is you go to lodges that and he’s playing World of Warcraft again because I hear him on his keyboard um you’ve got jurisdictions that will I typing back to n business oh um Man level 70 butt elf on WOW Jason
Richards excuse me I’m a rogue dark elf mistress thank you very much anywh who uh I forgot my point no what I was saying was um what were we talking about you’re UK Rogue dark vsl vsls vsls yeah dsls not dsls yeah so I mean it’s it’s we all have
Broadband we’ve all been to lodges where it’s extra extra dogmatic in the lodge room that night you’re like I’m like am I in Lodge or am I in like Sunday Revival like what’s going on here like you get the antithesis of you know um universality in certain L and it it’s
Like this flavor that takes over the whole law and it’s like where am I we’re tolerant of all religions as long as they use the King James version of the Bible as we are tolerant of all mon ISC albe it trinitarian religions in this particular jurisdiction that meet on Sunday and
Have barbecue after boom yeah yes that do the full dunking not the sprinkles yeah Jason next your next one oh my goodness um can we talk about the use of the square encompasses in your business um there are there are a number of jurisdictions um one of ours included that has a
Prohibition on Brethren using the square encompasses um as part of their advertising for their business yeah so we it makes sense makes perfect logical sense right we are not here to network it helps helps us from a fraternity but not to exploit the fraternity for financial gain right so
Profiting off of The Craft right profiting off of the square encompasses I think we would generally agree that yeah you you you know I mean I’m I’m All About capitalism but you know not in not in a you know a it’s been a long day exploited way
It’s been a long day yeah I don’t yeah in exploitative way yes thank you John I get the spirit of what you’re saying even if the words don’t come out yeah but what about what about companies that Masons and lodges and Grand lodges buy from why is it okay for them to well
Obviously they don’t ever use Compass they what if you make and sell regalia what if you make and sell Masonic artwork and t-shirts like what if your name is JP Luther or McCoys I wasn’t going to name names we were all thinking of I I didn’t
Either these are just friends of mine no okay cool um yeah like you know that’s that’s such a huge contradiction like we are we are okay and very okay with shelling out tons of money for apparel but it seems but it it all other forms of you know Masonic advertisement you
Know for a for a vocation or business are are shunned even like I’m I’m going to bring up um you know want saula does apply Freemasonry program which is an excellent program to to go through um he got and and I believe continues to get a lot of flak and
Consternation um and he’s called exploitative and really like he’s providing an incredible service to brothers and helping lift Brothers up yeah I from it exactly agreed right all right I got okay yes so yes we all agree that is kind of there is kind of a contradiction that
Especially if you Mass produce or mass sell Masonic items then that’s that’s okay but otherwise for everybody else that’s a bad thing yeah back to the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law so oh wait before we before we do this okay can we talk about Kenneth
Beer’s comment oh okay so if you are advertising and the money is going back to lodges that should be okay how much right because this is still a for-profit company I’m assuming and they are advertising Masonic Services then yeah if you’re doing like you know hyrum’s Plumbing um how much of
That is going to charity or back to the lodge right yeah is that okay and if so how much 100% 90% And then you know if you’re if you’re putting all of your money from your business back into the lodge are you then violating your obligation because you’re not taking care
Of you know the people who really need your money that’s true like your wife like your family yes so that’s good good question let’s um let’s move on there’s another one that I that I found fascinating so there I was reading yes stop the skull hate stop skull there’s there’s a mic
Contradiction right there we love skulls not because it’s spooky and cool we should talk about that before we get to John’s yeah prefer means Dylan interrupt so thanks Dylan are there skulls and masonry Dylan are there skulls and masonry well they’re they’re have been since the earliest 18th
Century tracing boards John and before the the first Grand in the United States was formed yeah like you know I think you know our our historical knowledge you know especially among provincial Masons is only back as as far as they can remember and when you don’t when you
Don’t actively take part in reading and preserving your history like you lose that that ground truth and that knowledge and so we have we have folks that swear up and down that the the skull in the chamber of reflection is a York right Innovation like like or you can go back
To like the time when masonry was founded right before York right existed right before the 17s right so yeah I mean it’s it’s it’s I I’ve thought about this a lot and you yeah I have and SK say otherwise I didn’t know you could think yes
So you know we all like to talk about how the The Glory Days of Freemasonry really weren’t the Glory Days of Freemasonry it’s just when we had a lot of people and money and did fancy crap right so because there was nothing else for people to do except like spend time
With their families that being said I don’t think it’s the fault of those people why were having issues with emblems of mortality shall we say because when they joined the craft all of this was gone and it was immaterial and it was irrelevant right because it was party time it was let’s
Have a Gala and let’s have a a fancy dinner and let’s get in tucks and tales and let’s party all the time and that kind of thing and that’s the kind of masonry that they grew up with so you know for us to shock them back into this
No we’re actually talking about are you muting me no I’m muting he muted me I was typing again click you know it legitimately scares the crap out of some of these people when we talk about things like death you know and mortality even though they’re kind of this intrinsic part of masonry
But again it goes back to you’ve got guys a whole generation or two of people that came in where it was basically a play right and they got to see it and that’s cool and they moved on and they went on to to Social Hour and had a drink or two and
Party so I understand and you just got to put your arms around them and give them a hug and then say shut up because this is what masonry is yes in that order boom done let go next what were you gonna talk about John well before I was so rudely and kindly interrupted
Yeah dyl good good suggestion it was that good um another one that I had that I was kind of curious about again diving deep into the ritual and why we do things um we explain a lot of the symbols right we have ritual that goes into at least a par paragraph long
Detail on every single symbol and emblem that we see as we go through the degrees except the second half of the third degree and so we don’t have explicit explanations of some things that happen in that second half which I was validated when I cracked open my copy of esoterica
Written by Albert Pike and before it got into any of the symbolic blue Lodge like explanations and and philosophy let me just uh mute Jason there there we go um there was like 30 pages of rating he’s rating of Pike is traveling all around and there’s copies
Of his speeches going I joined this awesome fraternity I was told I was going to get explained everything why don’t I can’t why can’t I get a straight answer from anyone anyone on what happened on the second half like it’s like it’s like you go to like a Christopher Nolan movie and
You’re like what did I just watch like you’re like go to Wikipedia you’re like that didn’t help and you go on like fan sites and you’re like that didn’t help and then you get into The Fringe conspiracy the you’re like oh that really doesn’t help that’s really good I
Don’t know if it’s right but that’s what I’m going with which is what led Albert Pike to actually write um a lot of his explanation of what he believes and he says hey these are just my interpretations like unless someone better comes along I’m just going to go
With these this is what I believe these characters and symbols represent and that’s where we got esoterica yep so good book if you haven’t read it um good book but uh yeah and so again I felt validated audible yeah when I saw a pike was just
Like I don’t get it I don’t know so if No One’s Gonna if No One’s Gonna explain it for me I’m gonna I’m gonna try and figure it out myself and share that with the world so good for him for doing that but that certainly um still exists today
Where we explain what this working tool means we explain what this symbol means and then we get to the end we’re like wasn’t that nice was a cool ceremony you’re like yeah but I I don’t I don’t know what I’m supposed to take away from that but it’s Sublime bro so Sublime
Well Sublime you do have some in the defense of people who actually care about our fraternity you’ve got some awesome brothers that do an amazing job of explaining who those players are in the second section of the Master Mason degree um I mean shout out to uh if
You’ve not heard this talk I I urge you to do it uh brother Shan Bradshaw pass grandm North Carolina he does a talk about the three Ruffians that will knock your hair back like hard like you go from Jason to this whoa it is awesome so boom so that’s mine that’s a
Contradiction that I still have not had resolved yep cool but it’s a good thing like with the symbols we do have they are consistent even like across the pond too right like working tools are all the same and I mean I I for one really appreciate the the beauty of the
Pencil my my favorite my favorite is the skir yes can I tell you how I first learned that people use different working tools how did you first learn that people use different working tools Joe yes so I was a uh a new new officer so this was going back quite a few years
And I was gifted a little working tools y’all seen those they’re like in the little jewelry Bo kind of thing little tiny things yeah and I opened it up I was super excited and I saw the square and the compasses and I saw the the gauge I saw all the regular working
Tools and then I saw a little pencil I was like what the hell is that and then I saw another little pencil with a little stringy thing around it I’m like what the hell is that and I had actually go Google that to realize that other jurisdictions use different working
Tools than we do which is um again I don’t know I don’t know why Universal Brotherhood until we’re not sigh aible it is for mini golf yes Sun card is in Fuego tonight I mean he’s usually yeah yeah so again that that is a huge contradiction again if we’re going to
Say the obligations should be similar then then uh yeah certainly our our tools should be similar okay well what is masonry that’s a good one what is masonary masonary oh like like who are brother I’ve heard that’s brother medy love you man yeah I’ve heard masonary
Quite a few times in lodges in Virginia I don’t know what the hell Mason area is can we just say the folks watching the live tonight are like on freaking fire yes the chats are awesome tonight chat PT said the ending of the third degree teaches the importance of reading the minutes
Banhammer because that’s what masonry is all about let’s go what’s another one it’s a bunch of admins Banning stupid people so I got another one uh so touching on different working tools why do no two jurisdictions have the same ancient landmarks if they’re ancient and they’re landmarks y immovable ancient landmarks they never
Move they never Chang time emorial from Memorial or 1859 when they were first written but yeah that’s fine too I I like to say in all of my presentations that you know masonry has existed since time immemorial because Masons are terrible historians and they just like figured that that sounded
Good that’s right if we’re gonna gloss over the details these are this is not the researcher looking time in Memorial Jedi mind trick Adam was amazing oh really Adam Noah and his sons were all Adam left Eve and went to go go listen to the minutes and argue about
Crap Kane killed Abel because Abel’s green beans were slightly undercooked and I have no problem with that if that is the truth um that is funny you’re a terrible person yeah but so again in all seriousness right like we’ve had lots of discussion about the landmarks and how they’re inconsistent
They’ve evolved over time they’ve been added to subtracted to each jurisdiction may or may not codify them right which gets into like the whole point of having landmarks was to promote recognition and Harmony and yet now we we’ve got something that we think there’s a baseline from the conference of grand
Masters of North America that to be kind of recognized in that group you have to follow this the short list but yet still um like 28 items right yeah up to yeah and including yeah and not all jurisdictions list them they’re not in right you know
They’re not in the law book um some some jurisdiction have them on their website I guess just as a suggestion but some make them part of their their code or their Law whatever it’s called in their jurisdiction some don’t so well and and ALS also too like many jurisdictions kind of Define regularity
Along the terms of adherence to the landmarks right right and so now I I tell people Freemasonry is is like the UN it’s all about who recognizes is who um but there are there are jurisdictions that uh like ugle which um you know you know state that you know the
The women’s Grand Lodge a HFA um are regular in all things except for that which they uh you know they admit women and so like not only are landmarks a moving Target but we also don’t recognize you know bodies and jurisdictions that may have the same landmarks that we do
Awesome so let’s see uh I’ll go I’ll go to one one more the um conversations about clandestine versus irregular this versus regular versus recognized right to build on on what you were just saying Jason um can we talk about how uh how you got in trouble for your presentation on George
Washington where you said he was regularly made Mason he was you had a very upset set of District deputies dress you down after that not only was he irregularly made he was also in a lodge that was not chartered by a Grand Lodge so therefore at the time was also clandestine
So he was both a clandestine and a regular Mason up until the lodge healed itself about seven or eight years later yeah I would call that trailblazing not clandestin okay but it’s it’s it’s our boy GW so that’s okay I mean that’s the Pinnacle of I’ll start my own Grand
Lodge with Blackjack and hookers rules for f Futurama style but not for me right yeah so but back to the the regularity the clandestine The Irregular like you’d think there would be a common definition of those and yet still to this day you’ll see brothers fighting on social media
Of they they don’t have the specific definitions per their grand lodge right so each Grand Lodge also interprets those words like clandestine irular Etc differently which I find which again I find fasinating from like can we just agree on common terms I don’t find it fascinating I find it annoying as hell
Because when I get into one of those Facebook arguments that last for hours we’re not even speaking the same vocabulary so right no progress is made in the discussion whatsoever right and it’s it’s it’s frustrating as all hell but to your point you know there is this
You know at least in the United States we have this bare minimum of landmarks that that we’re supposed to agree to so that we can play with each other why can’t we just agree on what’s a clandestine Mason versus what’s an irregular Mason and just put that out
There maybe make it a blog post or something and politics write it down politics codify it put it in a power point it’ll be it’ll be real Jason did you know that we’re all on the level in Freemasonry absolutely that Harry Truman when he was president
He attended the lodge and while he was in that Lodge he was on the level with all those other brothers so if we’re all on the level why do we have so many of them Jason take it away because I know you love to say that it’s your favorite line I was
Trying to trying to throw your softball there but I I know no I just like swing in the M um no that you know that is one of the core tenants of the fraternity is is right that um you know Masons there there’s no one above the other but then
You get into Masonic Affiliated organizations also known as app pendent bodies and then you’re like oh you know who’s wait he got an invite to the you know Royal Knights Adept priesthood of the Ark of the Covenant Indiana Jones style like what why didn’t I get one those
Right you have you have Invitational bodies um you have honorary degrees um and like to me that you know I I get that there are I get that there is some exclusivity to those and there’s there’s like some you know draw to the exclusivity of
Those groups but to me a lot of that just seems to undermine some of the core values of of Freemasonry if if not you know I agree you know if if not in principle but but in practice right and to to pull that point right even if it’s even if it’s
Explicitly said like hey don’t call me Grandmaster or don’t call me most worful just call me brother it’s like yeah but you know I’m not going to do that right cuz you you you know kind of have that title right and so forever these these people will be most worshipful even
Though you know even if they if they truly honestly mean it then you know then it it certainly um it has a an air of a different level of masonry that’s for you John we do we do stop we’re going to get hit with like a copyright
Strike yeah so again but when I was when I was a young mason right I go into Lodge and everyone’s like oh here’s this past master I’m like okay I don’t know why he’s a big deal but like oh but past Master you got you got to listen to him
And you know in some jurisdictions they have like a whole like seating seating Row for p pass master and let each past Master get a chance to to uh bring up anything they want in Lodge and it’s like but we’re all Brothers right we’re all we’re all on the same level
Right maybe maybe not maybe kind of well not if you’ve got seating charts for People based on the color of their apron I would have to argue that point a little bit all right we got time for one more who wants to do one last topic let’s do Masonic tattoos let’s doic
Tattoos yeah oh we’ll get you there buddy we’ll get you there so Masonic tattoos um M why there’re contradict first of all love tattoos um your body is is your temple and and your canvas love it uh I definitely have lots of symbology on my arms but I think why
We’re bringing that goes against your obligation that’s exactly right right you shall not do this this this there is y’all can take this clip whether in its audio form or video form and play it at lodge next time I’m about to explain it for all of you okay this is make it
Into a TI all those oh you know what we got we got the Tik Tock plugin right we can bring this out so oh yeah here it is brother Joe is saying this for everybody so listen there is nothing in a masonic obligation that says you can’t draw crap
On your arms or your legs or your face or your neck or your belly button anywhere you want if it’s allowed to be on the sign of your Lodge on the city sign as you’re driving into the city on your on your monthly newsletter or Trestle board or
Whatever the hell you call it if it’s allowed to be there and McCoy sells it okay allowed to go on your body okay no violation of your Masonic obligation you can’t put ink on your body but you can buy it for $9.99 in m co yes it’s if
It’s on one of the Myriad of lapel pins that you can buy you can put it on your body okay there you go boom done and done Joe said it it’s got to be true got to be true all right let’s take it home so final
Question of the night of the ones we’ve talked about and if we didn’t cover it you can also pull from that uh that Rolodex which do you think would be the most bang for the buck if we got this contradiction resolved and everyone was on the same page which
Would promote the most Harmony or the most uh consistency in the Masonic experience that’s a good question I know I thought of it that’s a great question we’ll start with Jason tonight which contradiction that we talked about would give us the most bank for the buck in terms of what uh promoting
Harmony and resolving the the the disparity which would be the the best one to fix first no I I get what you’re saying he’s thinking um yeah I do it from time to time these are filler words that I’m using yeah your face is a filler
Word as you wish thank you as you wish oh these inside never get old it’s it’s definitely macroaggression man we don’t go big or go home yeah like I I feel like some sometimes folks on the show don’t understand like the four of us have spent the better part of
The past 10 years in constant contact every single day daily daily so we bring you into our friends group and we are this mean to each other off camera that is true yeah we have the Mystic tie that binds us together Thursday nights anytime you want to answer the question that’d be great
Anytime I want to answer the question I’m just vamping um I would say landmarks okay that’s because they are so often used as a foundational underpinning for what is the right masonry and the wrong masonry yet they are so often not immutable and different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and I
Think if we can all get ourselves on the same sheet of music then I think we we probably have a good bit you less misunderstanding and hostility among jurisdictions but that would require people to set their EOS aside what I don’t think that will happen no
Way yeah good call though that’s a good one Joe he stole mine um yeah so I I’ll pick a different one so I will say and this started out as a joke but I think if we remembered this more and remembered the reason why we are supposed to go to Lodge then things
Might be better and I’m going to go with the one again that was a joke that we’re all on the level and that’s why there’s so many of them um because again we we I don’t even know the word for this we we make grandiose and we make important
Pontificate pontificate on things that um we say over and over again during our Masonic degrees don’t matter um you know we talk about the internal and not the external uh reasons for why someone becomes a mason or why they join and then we just cover these people with gold and glitter and shiny
Things and lapel pins and metals and bling bling and all this crap um so do we care about the internal or do we not care about the internal um you know what about brother Jose’s question um ID D GF that is my answer wow in or out however you want
Brother Jose you wear it sideways perpendicular at a 47 degree angle whatever tickles your pickle my friend because again yes so caring about the internal and actually being on the level you know as opposed to um you know 45 minutes of introductions for people that you already know so true boom it’s a
Good one awesome all right uh which is good because that is not the one I was going to pick I think for for me I would have to say that resolving the whole clandestine versus irregular conversation would actually resolve a lot of what it would resolve a lot of the
Conflict not only ac across uh jurisdictional boundaries but also um you just recognition RIT large across uh you know uh specifically you know PHA right we’re still trying to work through PHA recognition and how it’s sometimes Universal sometimes it’s not and yes if we could fix that clandestine versus
Irregular conversation that would go a long way and then we wouldn’t care if George Washington was clandestine or Andor irregular and underage just be a brother yes no we would just postumus expel him go ahead and bring that up in aw22 all right let’s do that um good show tonight lot of good
Conversation both uh with us and on the chat so good times let’s let’s see you next week and remember keep searching for more light have A wow keep searching for more light
source
