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Welcome back to another episode of the corporate Cowboys podcast my name is Alex for the next half hour you’ve got me as your career consultant granted it’s not a question you might have asked but it’s a question somebody else brought up on their own path to professional development maybe it’ll
Help you maybe it’ll edify you maybe it won’t maybe it won’t if you have a question on your mind you think you need some help on making your next move within corporate maybe you haven’t even broken into corporate yet and you’re doing some reconnaissance of your own
Right I hope and it’s our mission here at the corporate Cowboys podcast with the corporate Cowboys that’s you know just Associates incorporating Associates right it’s our hope that this podcast helps you on your journey to become a better professional and to move like a corporate cowboy
If you have any questions would like to reach out to what by all means you could do that we’re on Instagram that’s at corporate Cowboys with a z again that’s corporate Cowboys with a z we’re also on patreon that’s the corporate Cowboys podcast and you can find us also on uh what’s the
Other one Rumble you can find us on rumble on YouTube we’re out and about come and listen come take a listen um write to us even P.O box 3372 Rancho Cordova California 95741 today’s question interestingly not really not really interestingly comes from r slash career guidance right I mean I
Think it’s interesting because of uh the predicament that this person finds themselves in I just read the title and it says do I still have to pay back my sign on bonus just right off the bat assume that you do assume that you do when they say when
They when somebody asks do I still have to do this right it’s as if they agreed to do it and then after here after they left prematurely we’ll call it that’s what I’m thinking that’s the conclusion that I’m arriving to in my mind when somebody
Says do I still have to do this in quotes do I still have to I can brush my teeth right it’s because they know they know and they agree to whether it’s expressly or implicitly they agreed to brush their [ __ ] teeth they agreed to give back to their
Sign-on bonus if some condition was satisfied if if they left their position prematurely or if they gave no notice if they were fired for cause right maybe they were booted out of the [ __ ] job and corporates now like yo I’m clawing back that [ __ ] sign-on bonus that we
Gave you when we first hired you on that’s what that’s called by the way that’s a claw back provision if in your employment agreement there is a provision that says that states any sign-on bonus or any property that was given to you as an incentive to work for them
Any of that information that has to be returned if you should happen to leave prematurely you have to return that is a claw back provision that they’re clawing back whatever little benefit they gave you when they first hired you on assume that you do even if you got a hundred thousand okay
Maybe that’s an exaggeration right because very few people get very few people get a hundred thousand or a million dollars sign on bonuses I’m talking about top shotters I’m talking about like actual corporate Cowboys who are putting in stupid amounts of work they might be getting those figures but
But for us and I’ll include myself for we the little people we probably get what anywhere from five sometimes less 5 10 20 grand I mean 20 grand is pushing it I’ve heard of 40 right and that was with government contracts too like I mean we’re talking military
But in the private sector you could see them in from various ranges you could see that occur within various ranges right from zero to 100K and then 100K up onward you’re pushing it you’re pushing you’ve got to be somebody special doing special things um assume that you do even if the term is
Only for a year and you’re like I thought I’ll hack it I’ll make it through this year don’t go blowing that money don’t if you can’t pay it back if you don’t have the funds to back that up to uh to pay that back don’t go don’t go wild spending it right
You might have five at least five thousand in your bank account and you get a five thousand sign-on bonus I mean do what you want you’ve got five grand to pay it back with it’s not like it’s gonna put you out or we’ll take you to collections
But if it’s part of your agreement that you have to pay it back and you don’t have that money on you you may you may this is not legal advice you may become liable for that money that you agreed to take when you were hired on and you agreed to
Give back if you had to right simple simple as that work work conservatively here you don’t have to think conservatively but you have to work conservatively that’s that’s the notion of a corporate account of a corporate Cowboy that’s taking care of business in order to have business take care of them
You have to work conservatively think liberally if you want but work conservatively work in a way that can be reproducible that could be Universal lot universalizable is that is that how it goes Universal universalable universalizable I think that’s that’s the term I’m looking for in a way that you can universalize in a
Way that’s sustainable anyways I was a rant on just the title I didn’t even read the body the body is probably something similar oh I would I agreed I agreed to pay this money back if I didn’t stay on for three years and I left at two years do I still have to
Pay back my sign out about yes yes you do yes if you’re a professional right of course it always depends but me personally I would say yes you do again not legal advice because it always depends on the situation on the circumstance because it may be it may be that you were
Unlawfully fired wrongfully fired right you being let go or or you leaving the company was for good reason and so you don’t have to pay it back maybe you can just keep it you don’t you shouldn’t expect them to try and quiet back by I don’t know sending you to
Collections you know that’s a little extreme but you shouldn’t expect them to come knocking at your door or giving you a call or sending you a official mail or an email not none of that it may just be that may just be the fact but again if I’m giving you a a legal
Answer it depends it always depends it depends all right the body says when I got hired at my current position here we go that’s where it starts there’s a climb there was a 5 000 sign on bonus yeah okay the caveat was that if I left within one year here
It is I would have to pay back the bonus the location for the job is hybrid with two days at the office and three days being remote recently it was announced that we’re going to three days in the office and two remote what I need to pay back the bonus given
The change to the hybrid policy I feel like I’m still going to need to pay it back but I didn’t know if there was any chance of avoiding that because of the change thanks for the advice now this is not legal advice but I’m giving you now it may be professional
Maybe corporate Cowboy advice so you can move in a more professional manner but it’s not legal don’t rely on my words right any I always leave the disclaimer in the description any any content pushed through this podcast should not be taking this legal advice nor meant to condone any wrongful activity right
So in regards to the change in the work conditions something that you may or may not have impliedly agreed to you’ve got to go to the employment agreement right if you’re if you’re moving if you’re moving with intent if you’re moving like a corporate Cowboy you you
Ought to know what you signed up for you ought to know what you signed on the dotted line for and that is your employment agreement whether or not you can make a case to keep that money that depends that depends on what the employment agreement reads whether or not the scope of your
Work being hybrid is subject to change right quote unquote that might be some operative language in there it’s subject to change depending on circumstances depending on guidelines depending on uh if if there’s if there is some kind of state order or something coming down from the county in terms of I don’t know
Health and wellness quote unquote I mean I’m not gonna claim it to be a mandate or anything like that in terms of like public policy but your employment agreement is going to control first because they’re more often than not more often than not is going to be a
Little more restrictive a little more conservative than what’s coming down from government bureaucrats at least in the organizations I’ve studied organizations I’ve audited policy tends to be a little more on the conservative side than that government does so this language is going to appear in your employment agreement
And it’s up to you to go back find what you signed for I mean it hasn’t even been a year me personally I would have read that from from cover to cover read that from cover to cover and then negotiate and then negotiate you can maybe not Redline the [ __ ]
Contract but you could strike through some language add your own initial it send it to them have them sign it and agree whether or not they need to initial it I mean that’s that also depends on what jurisdiction you’re in but these are terms these are terms that
You should be hammering out with a hiring manager before even signing on if if the hybrid situation if the work from home in the office situation should happen to change I mean the fact you never contemplated it changing at least to me lets me know that you that you drop the
Ball you let it slip between the cracks it got away from you I’m not saying it’s a bad thing because now you’ve got to reconcile with the fact that depending on what your employment agreement says you’re likely to end up paying back that bonus right and the reason I say likely is
Because the fact that you don’t bring up your employment agreement here lets me know that you you might have signed it right I might just be jumping to a conclusion right but it’s meant to expose you if it offends you it’s because it’s meant to expose you if the shoe fits lace that
[ __ ] up and go back and read your employment agreement because that’s gonna be necessary regardless you really want to know whether or not you should pay this back go look at your employment agreement you’re gonna end up reading it if not you’re gonna end up with some type of collections letter
Requesting that money back or because you breached because you breached your own agreement having not read it and having performed on it not substantially right because you breached on the on the performance of it by not returning that bonus you’re opening yourself up to problems to problems
They could be legal it could be professional they could be personal but they’re going to impact your career how do you address this going forward [ __ ] read what you sign it can’t be that hard can’t be that crazy I mean I’ve I’ve heard of companies not coming back to get the bonus
But again circumstances vary your mileage may vary and circumstances are different from case to case maybe they didn’t think that the bonus was big enough to come back and get or maybe they they I mean management maybe management just deemed it not worth getting because of the circumstances that led to you leaving
Maybe you had more right to leave than they had rights to keep you and that bonus right so whatever claw back provision they had was looking was looking rather weak if the reason you left was for for example as an example the reason you left was because they’re doing some
Shady corrupt [ __ ] and you didn’t want to be a part of it so you left and you didn’t pay back the bonus it doesn’t mean that that’s hush money it doesn’t mean it’s blood money nah you just kept the bonus [ __ ] them you did it moving your reputation I presume would largely
Remain intact for you to continue looking for work and working as a professional it shouldn’t impact your professional image you know what would impact your professional image as if word gets out again dependent on contacts dependent on the facts available if the industry that you’re in is small
Tight-knit and they know you as an executive I mean a five thousand dollar bonus I doubt you’re an executive right this this really may be more entry level engineering maybe some type of managerial position a supervisor but I mean when we’re talking VPS on up of substantial organizations
Anything from lower mid size and higher 5K is Starters 5K is starters let’s take a look at these comments real quick and I’ll critique them but like I said at the very beginning you want to plan as if you will be paying that [ __ ] back and then after you
Clear whatever hurdle whatever condition that you had to satisfy after that condition lapses well then you’re sitting on 5K cool and free to use free to invest free to buy office supplies and heavy metal with I mean that’s what our money goes to you want to shoot us a dollar
You want to pitch us a mill there’s some there’s some money apps floating around if not send it to the PO box whatever value it is that you’re sending send it to the PO box man we’ll figure it out later help keep this operation non-profit all monies received
Go to business expenses and legal fees okay the first comment here says they’re going to ask for their money back Point man you have to read that employment agreement if if this organization halfway knows what the [ __ ] they’re doing they’re already planning ahead that if you leave early they’re going to want
Their money back and so this comment says they’re going to ask for their money back that said it continues that said I think you’ve got an interesting case and you could fight it in small claims court if you were interested though does the letter they sent you include any provisions about them
Changing terms about your work location and it’s not just the letter it goes back to the employment agreement whether or not any of those Provisions in the employment agreement include language authorizing or giving the company discretion to change work location sometimes it’ll say within reason but the fact that it opens the door
Giving the company discretion giving the company authority to just change it on you unilaterally without you having to agree or to consent and they just claim within reason and sometimes within reason that language all that just means is just giving you notice giving you like a month notice
Maybe even giving you a week notice depending on what the industry practice is depending on what the industry standard is so maybe you guys have uh some kind of work group chat going and through there they communicate hey folks next week expect to show up in
Person one more day we’re going to cut down on hybrid and then they justify it I don’t know with the fact that we’ve we find that metrics look better when folks are working in person and interacting together across departments as opposed to using this chat right something something relatively official an email
Some type of official correspondence a newsletter when you’re in the office in person they’re handing out a newsletter stating that next week or next month next quarter folks will be one additional day in person in the office right keep an eye out for that language and if there isn’t if there is not
Well well if the language in there can be interpreted in a way that does not give them a discretion that does not give them the authority to change the scope to change the terms of your employment without your prior consent without your agreement you may you may have a case on your
Hands again not legal advice not legal advice this person is saying you can take it to small claims court I said you I say if it were me and and it happened to me in my agreement the agreement was in my favor my employment agreement was in my favor I had taken
[ __ ] to court I’m keeping the money well they’re going to come back and ask for money that doesn’t belong to them I’m treating it as if it belongs to me and even then I’m sitting on it for a cool minute because they’re gonna they’re gonna contest it it may become a
Little point of contention right so the money might be hot I’m not going to go out of my way and spend that money because if they do start some [ __ ] try to litigate it file a suit take me to collections or whatever I might I it might be
In my interest in my better interest to just give the money back it might not be worth the headache just like some organizations it may not be in their best interest to pursue this bonus like this five thousand dollar bonus it depends if your salary if your salary
Was like a six-figure salary 5K is a drop in the bucket they might just dust off their hands and chalk it up to a loss but if your salary is what like 60k 60k compared to a 5k sign-on bonus was something that they had to hook you in
More than likely they I mean again the facts all the facts matter and that might just be the reason to have a claw back provision if the if the sign-on bonus is substantial given the size of your salary given the proportion of of your salary
This is all but I mean this is a high level technical strategy right this is this all depends on the facts because this person if they’re again sitting in front of me if we were on a one-to-one if this was an actual consult you don’t think I’d have these questions for them
Their experience their salary their education the industry the organization and we would break that down what level what title any any additional pieces moving parts to the comp plan to the Compensation Plan these are all facts that you’d want to know before I gave an informed opinion something actionable to the client
I’d want to know these facts but I’m answering in generalities here which is plan to pay it back [ __ ] plan on it take whatever sign-on bonus put it in a money market account put it somewhere where you can flip it okay maybe not flip it right put it
Somewhere where it’s at least sitting on some interest right okay come over go buy some Zips and flip it no no no no don’t do any of that go buy some peas and some keys just let it sit while it’s hot while it still has strings attached let it sit
Until it’s clear until it’s free and so whatever conditions that have been imposed on this sign-on bonus all laps and then you can walk away with your sign-on bonus free and cleared so this next comment here says I would plan on paying it back there you [ __ ] go
Let’s go Alex the dude doesn’t miss corporate Cowboys At Your Service how can we help again that’s speaking of generalities I would plan on paying it back it continues here I think it’s smart to start looking now Nothing is Stopping them from ending hybrid altogether no that’s not exactly true if
It might take you until your one year anniversary to find another role and saying yeah it might take you your entire year to find a new role you can also bring it up during the later interviews or once an offer is made for a new role and see if the new
Company will match the bonus to make leaving less painful for you but but don’t count on it they say let me break that down for you real quick that the first part it says here yeah I would plan on paying it back obvious obvious plan on paying it back
At least hold on to it don’t let it [ __ ] Escape between your fingers like sand like water right don’t let it get away from you because if your ass out on 5K and you have to pay it back and you don’t have 5K to pay back
Your ass out your ass out you’re exposed it says here I think it’s smart to start looking now Nothing is Stopping them from ending hybrid altogether that’s not necessarily true you want to look at your employment agreement because now just because I started the podcast on the defensive
Planning to pay it back doesn’t mean you can’t go on the offensive doesn’t mean you can’t be dictating you yourself and enforcing the contract and forcing the employment agreement the way you agree to it which was to work three days hybrid and two days in person
You don’t want to change the terms you don’t change the terms the end but that depends again and uh and I’ll harp on this I’ll Hound you on this as my client it depends on what you agree to by signing which is the agreement go read that [ __ ]
Go back and read it you need help deciphering it I can interpret it for you send it to us the rates the our rates are more than reasonable you want to know what you’ve signed on for first of all you should know what the [ __ ] you signed on for because this is a
Corporate war and you sign the line you become a soldier of sorts you become a Merc on the payroll for somebody else if you’re not working for yourself you’re working for somebody else and in this game in this game you need to know what the [ __ ] you signed on for
What you’re obligated to do what your duties are what your rights are if any what if you signed away your rights what what if they can and uh remote work what if what if they can end this hybrid Arrangement altogether and you’ve got [ __ ] to show for it other than
A complaint I don’t want to show up to work five days a week [ __ ] that’s because you fumbled the bag you [ __ ] up by signing not knowing what you’re getting into it sounds it sounds repetitive but this is this is a common theme it’s a common occurrence unfortunately
You could mitigate this beforehand by having a representative by having a uh a consultant not a representative because I mean we’re not even though we could be legal Representatives right if you know God forbid we got to go to court why don’t you want a consultant in your corner first
That you can send this employment agreement to to interpret the agreement to give you notes on it what portions of it might be [ __ ] you over what portions of it are actually in your favor and what you can do about it to negotiate the next comment here says it’s all in
The wording and how much fight you can afford it’s all in the wording and how much fight you can afford yeah I said that it’s all it depends what the words on the actual employment agreement say and as far as you being able to afford it really that’s just a headache
It’s whether or not you can afford this [ __ ] headache because the company is thinking the same way can we afford this [ __ ] headache of having to go get this 5K is 5K actually worth it [ __ ] because push may come to shove and they only want 25 of it back you know
What keep 25 of it we want 25 of it back you don’t know where the chips are going to land and that always depends on the context you need the facts you need to know all the circumstances they go into informing this situation that’s it fam not these three I’m gonna
Just keep it to these three comments it’s been 30 minutes and I haven’t missed once I haven’t missed not even once my name is Alex you need help you need a strategist in your corner you need a facilitator you need to learn how to move like a corporate cowboy and
You only do so by associating with one come on over we are more than happy to help oh today’s proof of life before I forget it’s Tuesday February 7 2023. have a nice day I’ll catch you next time all right
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