Welcome back to another episode of the corporate Cowboys podcast my name is Alex today is proof of life I’m doing this [ __ ] first it’s Wednesday February 8 2023. right now you’re listening to season seven episode 18 and we’re plowing right through today’s question it’s coming from our slash career advice
Our slash career advice would you like a professional opinion second opinion another perspective a corporate perspective one of a corporate cowboy hit us up we’re on Instagram that’s at corporates Cowboys with a z you can also follow us on patreon subscribe there are multiple tiers some
Of them give you the option to ask questions and you’ll get exclusive content one-on-one personalized just you and us so this question is asking actually this question is more of a scenario I suppose there’s no question mark that I see it says verbally abused by the head office over an email
So maybe they were chewed out over an email for something they did or for something they didn’t do and the body is pretty long on this one so uh in order to make the most of our free 30-minute consult I’ll just get started it says here I’ll
Try and make this short and sweet but basically I had a business case raised by my direct manager a few months ago for a pay raise I had a business case raised by my direct manager a few months ago for a pay increase okay it says this then needed to be
Approved by her manager that’s the manager who absolutely ripped me apart today okay okay after the case was raised back in August I inquired about the process and how long it would take to expect an answer she gave me amazing reviews said she would get me a good pay raise
And that it needs to go to another level up for approval and that should take two to three weeks and now about five weeks passed so I asked her again where the process was sitting and she told me it was now out of her hands and was sitting with
The national manager for approval and would keep me updated I don’t know man it sounds like they’re stringing you along but let’s see let’s see this it says keep in mind everyone else in my team has received a pay increase this year except me through this business case process
So I guess what it sounds like is a quote business case is usually started by the direct manager and then if it’s to be considered that’s kicked up to the next level to the national manager who either approves or denies pay raises okay okay so it seems like it’s the direct manager
Who’s going up to bat for their employees for their subordinates in order in order to secure them pay increases and it doesn’t sound like they’re guaranteed right because they gave them a timetable of about two to three weeks and it’s been five now just been dead air silence radio silence
Not hearing any updates about their increase so it says it’s almost been three months and I’ve been waiting the outcome I’ve been awaiting I’ve been awaiting the outcome eagerly as it all seemed very positive and likely to happen last night I sent an email hold on hold last night I sent an email
Outlining the extra projects I’ve taken on extra Revenue I’ve brought to the company and the countless hours of overtime I’ve dedicated it was a professional I don’t know a professional well-written email and not hostile or demanding in any way I sent this to the head manager who the case was
Sitting with because I assumed he’d be make he’d be the correct person to ask okay all right the reason I’m stuttering on this paragraph is because something didn’t sit right something didn’t sit right they’re waiting in time they didn’t send this email to uh to their direct supervisor
I mean if you’ve met if you’ve met the head manager you could probably see see them but even then I think cc is a bit of a reach I would send this email to your direct supervisor why because that that creates a record right you’re respecting the chain of command
So that creates a record that you’re continuing to update and follow up with your direct manager so if they if they are stringing you along then at least you have that as proof it says here it was a professional well-written email and not hostile or
Demanding in any way I sent this to the head manager who the case was sitting with because I assumed he’d be the correct person to ask nah nah I think you fumbled it a little bit there this morning I told my direct manager that I had sent the email
And she told me I shouldn’t have done that as there is a chain of hierarchy uh yeah more like a chain of command a chain of communication and you definitely went outside the bounds event um sounds like you’re gonna get a talking to I explained okay so okay okay and now I
Get the title I get the title now you’re verbally abused by the head office over this email so you weren’t abused over an email like you weren’t like they weren’t talking [ __ ] about you they weren’t bagging on you in an email in a written email they they
Verbally abuse you like they pulled you aside and verbally abuse you because you sent this email okay all right so we’re getting to it it’s almost been three months this morning I told my direct manager and they [ __ ] [ __ ] bricks it says here I explained that I wasn’t aware I couldn’t
Communicate with higher management and that it made the most sense that I had to get an update from him since it was out of everyone else’s hands okay okay I see what you did there I see what you did there you took your direct manager’s words and twisted it
Twisted them on her essentially if you were following up with your direct manager and they’re like you know I can’t do anything about it it’s out of my hands now uh and you knew who the case was sitting with I suppose I suppose you can rationalize reaching out
To them whether or not it’s Justified whether or not you were in the right I mean that’s debatable we don’t know the entire context to it I’ve still got questions which I’m hoping the rest of this will answer but again I think you’re always in the right to negotiate your worth and to
Follow up and to keep following up I wouldn’t say pestering and you know being demanding and whatnot unless you know unless you know you are the [ __ ] unless you know you are the [ __ ] you are the Golden Goose and you can you know the demand your worth otherwise you’re just following up
You’re just touching base you’re just checking in you know just you’re just making sure that this case isn’t sitting cold this business case isn’t going cold that somebody is actually sitting on the [ __ ] incubating it thinking about it and gonna hatch it you’re gonna make the
[ __ ] hatch gonna make it happen for you and get yourself a pay increase I get it I get it so you definitely uh stretched a little bit you definitely stretched a little bit out of your reach especially by leap frogging over your direct manager when
They said it’s out of their hands and if they didn’t tell you to follow up with the manager then don’t follow up with them but if you know who the manager is again this depends on circumstance if you know who the head manager is who is actually
Reviewing your case and you’ve met them before and they’ve actually followed up with you and said hey I saw your name come across my desk I gotta tell you you you’re a good employee and all this and this and that [ __ ] then then you can
Finesse your way into it to be able and send them whatever slide deck you have whatever little presentation you have outlining your contributions to the organization and you know justifying supporting your position for a pay increase right being professional but what you did I don’t know that kind of Teeters the line
That that borders on being not professional that’s just that sounds like desperation sounds like desperation I speak from experience I’m not I’m not this old and I’m not this bold I’m not this wise because I’ve never done this [ __ ] right I’ve been both on the giving end and the receiving
End of these kind of emails and you learn through trial and error so it says an hour later this is an hour after an hour after they explained they explained I wasn’t aware I couldn’t contact I couldn’t communicate with higher management and that it was and that it
Made the most sense that I’d get an update from him since it was out of everyone else’s hands and hour later I was called into my managers manager’s office that’s the direct manager was there too so their managers manager so the head manager the head manager right
Either either the head manager or one one more rung between their direct manager and the head manager so somebody in between there so they were called into my manager’s manager’s office and my direct manager was there too as soon as I walked into her office she screamed at me that I had
Dragged her through the mud and sending an email to the head manager okay so then it was another rung I’m just clarifying here because the way this is written not so clear I’m just clarifying where everybody stands everybody’s position everybody’s [ __ ] title at this place
So she screamed at me that I dragged her through the mud and sending an email to the head manager was completely unacceptable I had to ask her multiple times to not raise her voice at me as everyone in the office could hear her tearing me to shreds she said she needed
To do quote damage control now and I asked her how my email caused her damage as that wasn’t my intention okay all right maybe this maybe this person is a [ __ ] newbie maybe this person is a [ __ ] newbie when you could have kept it in house handled it in-house and
Escalated it you know a little more incrementally and not just full out exposing your your head your is it your head note exposing your manager’s manager right as not going to bat for you it sounds like your direct manager was going to bat for you so you could
Have if anybody CeCe your manager’s manager right that’s an incremental escalation not just [ __ ] at this point shoot it to the CEO who gives a [ __ ] right because if you’re gonna LeapFrog the chain of command the chain of communication [ __ ] it send it to the CEO uh ask I mean buy
A couple of shares in the company and then ask for everybody every other shareholders email address and email it to them too [ __ ] it right all right so it says here I could barely get a word in she was red in the face and absolutely livid I told her this is
How I told her if this is how she treats employees then I don’t want to be a part of the company and she said you can leave all right so this person is already is is already rolling over on their back right saying that if you’re gonna [ __ ] yell
At me I don’t think I should be here and the manager obviously is going to capitalize on that I’m going to say get the [ __ ] out get the take the rest of the day off take the take the [ __ ] week off I don’t want to see you right
Now because you’re making our department look bad right now this is all dependent on context and the facts every circumstance every case is different right if you need help with your particular case or if you know somebody who’s going through something similar or may go through something is anticipating getting a pay raise
Is wanting to get a pay raise it doesn’t know the first moves to make the first steps to take have them reach out to us spread the corporate love like a corporate Cowboy should they say I told her I didn’t feel I did anything wrong by inquiring about
The pay raise since it’s been months with no updates she told me she was taking the email and our meeting to HR what so you oh your manager’s manager is going to take your email and that little meeting where I guess she ripped into you and is taking that to HR for what
For insubordination somehow I’d love to see that it says here apparently now there are managers kicking off in the office about the email I sent I’m dumbfounded I copped verbal abuse and embarrassment I ended up leaving for the day but I’m unsure what to do now
I’m pretty sure I won’t be getting the pay raise hold on hold on don’t don’t don’t [ __ ] cop out now right don’t cancel the strategy now you don’t know what’s gonna happen maybe this [ __ ] goes through HR and finally gets escalated to your your head manager who makes the
Decisions because it sounds like there’s your direct manager there’s your manager’s manager there’s your head manager and then there’s the national manager damn no wonder nothing gets [ __ ] done I mean everybody else on your team apparently got done except for you so I don’t know what to tell you I don’t
Know what to tell you maybe I’m not understanding the facts maybe you don’t know which manager to actually maybe you don’t know which door the actual manager is hiding behind how about that all right so apparently there are managers now who are you know making light of the situation and they’re I I
Bet they’re knocking your direct manager they’re saying damn you can’t damn you can’t Wrangle your [ __ ] your your little your little team your little team’s gotta come out here and beg for crumbs if what you’re asking for is crumbs right and then you you’ve got your hands out
I’d like some more and in your hands you have you know a slide deck of all your contributions and look look at my contributions I like some more if I can it says here pretty sure I won’t be getting the pay raise but it’s almost like quote how dare middle Management
Contact Executives how dare she all right well it is what it is now somewhere someone sometime along the way in this email Shane because I mean when when we’re dealing with internal email channels here a lot of managers have access to their subordinate emails so you don’t even know
Where all of this kicked off maybe you did send it to the head manager or the national manager and then there’s like four or five other managers above that [ __ ] who’s seen the email and it’s like yo who is this little nobody who’s asking for more money what the
[ __ ] and like now they’re now they’re bringing the hammer down to put you in your place right again I’m not saying what you did is wrong but don’t immediately turn and run because they got their panties in a bunch so it says the company is obviously toxic no not necessarily But continuing
It says but I just can’t believe the outburst and abuse I received over this an investigation has started with HR but does anyone have any advice or have been through anything similar oh Alex this might be story time I don’t know we’ll see where this goes it says I’m starting
To feel like she didn’t actually send the case through there’s definitely something hidden under the rug in regards to this I’m taking the rest of the week off to get my head straight have never been spoken to by an adult like that before in my life let alone in
A professional environment I’m really shaken up over this man if you’re shaken up over this you got off light you got off light [Applause] at least at least when you sent that email it wasn’t the head manager who had time today like today I got time
Keeping it OG real today I got time but today but today I got time I got time today at least it wasn’t them ripping you a new one via email like if they’re if they’re really on their p’s and q’s they just swatted that email down and I mean
If they’re really on their p’s and q’s and being petty if they were Petty they’re gonna swatted down your request and actually reply to all reply to all to your email so everybody had seen that they made an example of you that that you can’t reach out to uh to the
Executives right so you you may you may have something you may be onto something that maybe your direct manager never actually kicked the case up and was hoping that you would forget about it in a couple of weeks that’s always a possibility maybe the direct your direct manager does actually have your best
Interest at heart and has their hands tied behind their back has their hands tied because it’s out of their hands they kicked it up they escalated it and if you don’t give them that support that supporting documentation that I don’t know what kind of presentation you made
[ __ ] what email you you sent a PowerPoint presentation with an Excel sheet attached to it you know you could have sent that to your direct manager and kick that up the chain of command so that your direct manager has more ammunition to help you to help your business case
Right go back and listen to I believe it’s season four episode 17. ah it’s about setting your manager up not in the way that you think and setting them up for Success so that they can in turn help you on your path to success right if they already went up to
Bat for you stuck their neck out for you and saying hey this guy this person this dude Alex great guy stand up guy with the Criminal Mind but a stand-up guy nonetheless gets the work done is productive as creative as Innovative brings I don’t know Vibes to the office
Just all-around chill person to have working for you right if they stick out their neck to that extent and you don’t pass them the ball for them to run it and I mean the whole ball pass them that email that you’re so [ __ ] proud of it’s so professional not demanding and and
Very courteous all right maybe you didn’t say courteous but you you’re claiming it’s professional not aggressive not demanding okay hand that ball to your direct manager and have them run it for you they’re already in a better position to make the case for you because that’s their job
Right if there is a chain of command you’re meant to respect it it’s there for a reason you don’t like it I don’t see you saying that this was a toxic work environment before you sent the email no you wanted a pay raise out of the joint
It wasn’t until you leapfrogged and some might say that’s toxic Behavior that’s sociopathic you’re not respecting the the titles and the jobs of those that are above you those that are ahead of you you know because there are those work environments those managers that will tell you
You can step on my shoulders right you can use my shoulders to climb on up but don’t [ __ ] dare step on my back there’s a difference there is a difference you can use my shoulders to step up don’t walk on my back right and by you leapfrogging your direct
Because I don’t again I don’t know how many managers you [ __ ] got now I could probably reread it again and break it down with context but you did a [ __ ] job right so I’m being nice I’m saying that in the nicest way you did a [ __ ] job at explaining what the organizational
Hierarchy looks like which would be a question in intake I would have I would help you diagram it out who exactly did you send the email to right because at this point we’re looking at your direct manager your manager’s manager the head manager quote the head manager and a national manager
Now we don’t know if you left anybody out we don’t know how many are left above the national manager right this sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare right red tape all over the place but but hey some corporate Cowboys thrive in this environment the more red tape the better the more
Rules and the better the more rules to learn the more rules you you learn to bend right for some I mean for some Cutthroats for some corporate sharks out there that I know where you where you work [ __ ] toxicity nah man that’s a walk on the park that’s a piece of cake
And to have their cake and eat it too you’ve got yourself a dream job that’s a [ __ ] dream job but what you’re doing is [ __ ] on your cake and then pretending it’s gonna taste good when you eat it why because you want the pay raise sure
You want the pay raise but you want it only your way when you know what you sign up for you know it’s a parent I mean you know there are managers above you and you know what a what this business case system looks like what this process looks like you don’t detail
At all if you followed up with your co-workers with your colleagues who who’ve all and you you claim they have all been through this business case process and they have all got their pay raises how did that happen what did they do are you asking the right questions or are you desperate
It sounds like you’re desperate sounds like you’re desperate right I mean if you are already interviewing outside companies I would be I mean why would you stop interviewing right always be interviewing but um yeah I mean I wouldn’t write it off completely that you’re not gonna get the pay raise
I mean why would you you’ve still got this business case it’s still active unless they shut it down and we’re nearing on 30 minutes I’m Not Really Gonna extend hold on 25 minutes yeah I guess I’ll give you a little story about Alex doing the same thing
And it wasn’t so much for a pay raise right it was uh it was uh it was a promotional it was a promotion it was some promotional language some advertising language so I used to work it on auto parts store that’s right car parts ISO car parts it’s a it’s a large
Brand it’s a national brand right I’m not going to give you the name I mean there are only what two or three big ones and um and you you might be able to deduce where I worked just by some of the some of the language that I tell you right so
A couple episodes ago what was it last episode about white collar White Collar colleagues being cryptic about what they do for work right so the cryptic portion of that is really just jargon maybe you don’t know what the [ __ ] they’re talking about and just think that they’re sitting at their desk twiddling their
Thumbs when in actuality they’re running projections analyzing data creating presentations updating spreadsheets Computing spreadsheets right and that all sounds very very general but there are those are very specific tasks that many need training in to be able to do efficiently many need uh foundational knowledge to even be competent
In what they are and what actually goes into doing those tasks right that’s a jargon whenever you’re working in an industry if there are certain key terms that you use inside of the store like uh as an example as an example a restaurant right there’s going to be
Certain language that you’re going to use in the back of the house that’s everything from the kitchen on back like where the public can’t see into there’s going to be certain language that you can that you speak with the chef the line Cooks and everybody back there to understand
One another it’s like a shorthand of sorts for some it’s a shorthand for others it’s like actual technical terms to get a point across to get a message across to to actually understand one another right so I was working for this auto parts store and uh some of the products that we have
I mean we’re supposed to sell as much as we can right back in the day I really didn’t have a quota but I was a good salesperson and some of the parts for more exotic cars maybe cars that are out of date also like cars that are older
Classic cars if they’re like restoration projects some of these parts we won’t have on the Shelf like it’s impossible to have every single car part on the shelves I mean the warehouse the warehouse space would have been unimaginable would have been impossibly big impossibly large right for every car
That exists out there for every car brand every car make every little model every variation every type right no it would it would be unimaginable the size of Warehouse that we would need so some of those parts we actually have on a list on a system that we can access and go
Straight to the people that make it you know go straight to the aftermarket you see there’s some jargon there we go straight to After Market vendors individuals who have those parts for sale individuals not individuals entities actual companies who either manufacture these parts or Source these parts again there’s another piece of
Jargon they go out there out there sourcing these parts and have and they have them on hand to be able to then fulfill our request for parts and now the the key piece of terminology the key piece of jargon is called vendor direct product right those products that we don’t have on the
Shelves are vendor direct products so they’re vendor direct only they’re only available directly from the vendor and now on the system itself on the system itself and on the advertising that was placed around the store right at certain uh at certain uh not length at certain distances I guess
In down the aisles because you could also walk down the aisles and see uh certain car parts maybe there’s like filters and and uh like other little chrome exhaust modifications and and parts for uh like hatchbacks those struts those compressed gas struts that are used to like pick up hoods or or uh
Service for service doors and whatnot they would place these tags around the store that says uh VDP parts like ask ask if ask if this ask if these parts are VDP or something like that like we’re trying to have the customer learn VDP and what the [ __ ] VDP means
And it was worded in a way like that wasn’t the exact phrase that was on it but it said something like it said it said something cryptic on it like some of these parts are available VDP and like that’s it like it had no asterisk on there like VDP means vendor direct
Product and and then like a little explanation better direct products are available directly from the vendor not none of that none of that it just said some of these parts are available VDP you know just just some like something like that and in the system when we went
To go look up a part the system if it wasn’t available on our shelves said VDP only like it was only available VDP and so you have these parts sales associates right these uh these crew members who are behind the counter looking for a part for a
Customer and the customer may not know what the [ __ ] VDP means so they’re thinking they could either find it on our Shelf or we could recommend them to another part store down the street you know we’re you know just just be helpful just be helpful just Enlighten their day is it available
Is it not let them know uh how soon it could get there right but you have employees looking at the system A system that our customer hasn’t been trained on our customer knows nothing about nothing about and the employee is using jargon talking to the customer the customer is asking for um
Only because I used to have a classic looking for a 1975 Chevrolet Nova carburetor okay a carburetor and you’re looking it up and you’re not going to have all the carburetors for all the years of all the makes for all the [ __ ] for all the models of of this
Particular car sitting on your shelf in the back and this employee has the has the [ __ ] balls has the gall the audacity to say oh oh this is this is VDP only and giving the customer a dead stare in the eye oh no this is VDP and the customers just
Okay like what the [ __ ] is bdp like so I’m not so so you already turned the customer off by using jargon you say VDP and then let them know it’s a vendor direct product it’s VDP only I think that type of jargon should have should have been kept
Only for behind the calendar again you see there’s some jargon kind of like back of house only like only kept behind the counter and then at any point in time when we’re interacting with the customer we let them know that yes we can get them directly from the
Vendor that’s it in quotes directly from the vendor the vendor not a vendor the vendor right because it makes the customer sound important it makes their special order actually sound special like you’re going out of your way to request it especially for them who came into who came into your
Establishment and trust you with this opinion so you’re going to treat them special and request it directly from the vendor it’s as if you’re asking the vendor you know to do you a solid for the customer and you’re vouching for the customer that they’re actually going to pay for
It that they’re actually going to use it it’s personalizing the customer experience you see how technical I’m getting with this I sound like a [ __ ] nerd I sound like a geek I’m already over 30 minutes but it’s a passion [ __ ] me right I’m a corporate Cowboy at heart and I look out
For other individuals who might be corporate Cowboys too so if they’re coming into the store asking for a part I let them know I don’t have it now I can get it for you directly from the vendor and have it here I give them a date have it here by Thursday
How how personalized how unique how special does that sound instead of saying no I don’t have it here that’s VDP what the [ __ ] does VDP mean so what did I do I wrote an email who did I send it to I actually I mean I let my store manager know but my store
Manager is not in charge of the advertising and the promotion material the advertising materials everything that’s printed that we hang up around the store you know to advertise this VDP [ __ ] they’re not in charge of that they don’t dictate what is written on them so I want to know who is
I want to know who’s in charge of that I write an email I send it to my district manager and I believe I send it to one more rung above them because my district manager also is not in charge of advertising again this is a national brand a national name a national store
In car parts so obviously I wanted to go to the marketing department but back in the day this was what like 10 years ago almost 10 years ago young Alex didn’t know right from left I don’t know up from down young Alex was just running and gunning trial and error you learn
From trial and error had I known now that a whole ass marketing department actually exists and types up this [ __ ] I would have CC them too I mean I mean CeCe not directly send it to them because they could just as easily brush me off but the more people that know the more
People relevant to my problem no the better the same goes for this salary increase you didn’t even CC your own direct manager and you [ __ ] it up you [ __ ] it up worse than I did right I at least got my managers involved and they could have kicked it
Over to marketing they didn’t they dropped the ball I’m not gonna rain on them now if I seen them it’s on site but I’m not gonna bag on them now right after the fact you at least had a chain of command cut out for you and you didn’t even CC them you [ __ ]
Up you gotta admit it you [ __ ] up even if it’s not illegal even if you didn’t break the law even if I mean you are doing right by wanting more money by wanting to be compensated for your worth and negotiating wanting to negotiate for it
But you totally just took a [ __ ] on the chain of command it’s as if you don’t care that’s what it looks like you want to make noise that’s about it so of course they’re going to send somebody down to shut you up which is what they did to me right
Now there was a little bit more to my story but I’m making a point is that I learned my lesson CC those people that are relevant keep them in the loop especially especially if they are going to bat for you I mean now now that you now that you got
Aired out now that you got walked into the office and just ventilated now you want to say oh this is a toxic work environment I don’t even think they kicked up my my business case when everyone on your team has gone through the business case process everyone on your team that’s an
Indicator that your business case was started that’s a clear indicator right sure you could be right you could I could be wrong in saying that your business case was not started but you’ve got circumstantial evidence that everybody on your team has gone through the business case and got their pay
Raise so they were all successful you never followed up with them so as soon as you get chewed out because you didn’t respect the chain of command you’re a soldier dog this is a corporate War if when you didn’t respect the chain of command you got chewed out oh all of
A sudden you’re you’re throwing up the flag all of a sudden you’re a victim all of a sudden when the chain of command come back comes back and bites you it’s it’s [ __ ] toxic dog dog you live and you learn that’s trial and error do it right next time
Do it right next time if you you the listener if you need a [ __ ] reality check and you don’t know it yet but you think you do before you send that email hit us up that’s what we’re here for we’re corporate Cowboys we’re about logic we’re about tact
We’ll help you strategize your next move inside of corporate it’s been over 30 minutes I’ll catch y’all next time
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