Welcome to another season of the corporate Cowboys podcast this is now season eight and we’re gonna get dirtier and dirtier and grimier and potentially Criminal minded mind you you know we’re stand-up guys just with Criminal Minds so if you find yourself in corporate trying to break in trying
To break up try trying to move up right I’m trying to use play on words but if you’re trying to make a move strategize plot plan in order to be able to negotiate your worth in terms of compensation in terms of professional development in terms of yourself professionally
And you’ve come to the right place there is no red pill there is no blue pill there’s just a gray pill and we all live in this [ __ ] born into a corporate War so you need to learn to move like a corporate cowboy everybody starts a soldier some folks just aren’t satisfied now
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We’re beginning to Archive a lot of the episodes on archives.org and other such sites other such repositories if you will today’s question today’s question is is a special one I think it will involve some some technical some technical uh perspective I don’t want to call it advice nothing that
Comes across this podcast in the form of content that we post or upload or distribute or share with you the listener none of it should be considered legal advice unless we’re representing you personally coming from our slash career guidance this question I I read the title and it
Sounds juicy it sounds juicy already so I’m hoping that the the body to this one is thick we’re given a lot of facts a lot of context so our this this episode can be well informed right again I’m trying to stay away from using terms like opinion and whatnot but
We need a well-formed opinion regardless and if I’m giving you the disclaimer that anything we pull up offline typically is not well informed well then you should not rely on it right the title to this one says the manager lied a COO is furious at me is it time to go
The CEO was a chief operations officer I would say if there was a a trilateral a trilateral of authority a trilateral group of authority it would be uh the CEO the CFO and the c-o-o and obviously from there you have support structures those units that create the infrastructure and system for
Operations you have the CTO CIO and and so on and so forth but this one already sounds good I mean if if a manager lies if a manager lies depends on what the LIE is about and how it impacts you professionally because after all reputation matters reputation
Matters and if you cannot disprove a lie then you could only roll with it for so long before you need to act in some cases it may be extracurricular you may have to resort to your last resort but sometimes uh you can you can come back from a Brink
If you learn to uh use their weight against them their momentum against them especially especially Liars [ __ ] were just Psychopathic or sociopathic about how they move in corporate sometimes they don’t even care about moving up they just want to down people and ruin other people’s professional reputation
Which is why it’s best to have contingencies if not within the organization outside on the parking lot the body to this one says saying hey all I’m a technical recruiter for a series B startup okay okay so the startup is pretty far along in terms of funding we’ll call it
Right they’re not just a seed trying to incubate they’re well on their way from their second or third series of startup depending on on what progress Milestones they’re tracking in order to obtain additional funding right and they’ve been here as they’ve been here around a year I’ve had really good success this past
Year doubled the size of our engineering team and the company overall okay so they’re a technical recruiter that means that they’re hiring talents they’re out scouting and hiring talent for specific technical jobs within the organization and so far so good they sound successful they sound like they’re well on their
Way having gotten in on the ground floor which is with a startup and already um establishing themselves as having created value having contributed to the startup’s success expansion and growth that’s good that’s really good as always keep and maintain records keep and maintain receipts emails texts even
If you’re using a work phone that sort of thing that says here a few weeks ago one of the hiring managers who is well known for being pretty incompetent told me to send out an offer to a candidate at a certain price point this has typically been the chain of
Command so I sent out the offer the next day that hiring manager makes a group chat with our CEO and says he never told me to send out the offer the CEO is very angry at me for what the hiring manager says I did although I somewhat calm
Things down by explaining what happened ultimately the team puts into place new offer mechanisms that make sure hiring managers don’t control salaries anymore what I’m worried about is how this lie has affected my reputation on the team the CEO and director of engineering both are holding me responsible for that
Offer going out my manager the recruiting director told me I have a ways to go to regain trust and that the next month is critical for me is this a salvageable situation I really love my company and I feel invested in its success but I don’t want
To find the group pulled out from under me when annual review time comes and this incident still weighs heavy in their minds yo notice how I took no breaks on that one right granted this is a new season so I’m always trying something new but I
Do so with every new episode that comes out typically I’ll break down the uh the body of facts for our hypothetical clients with every sentence every sentence that comes across I might pause give it a comment give it a once over a twice over and draw whatever necessary reasonable inferences that I
Can right in order to better inform our opinion and I always say this as a caveat as a disclaimer if I had the hypothetical client in front of me there would be questions abound I would be asking tons of questions follow-up questions to do so I don’t always have a script
It’s really more so a guide as to what questions I need answers to in order to better inform what type of strategy to pursue that being said our hypothetical client here isn’t quite the pickle why because they have a c-o-o that is mad at them and it’s the manager their immediate
Manager that has set them up that has set them up for failure one moment the manager is telling them to do something to act right and our client our hypothetical client is not telling us how they were told or they told verbally where they told by email right
Who are you keeping receipts of every action that was taken that’s something that you should take into consideration if you’re moving in with a startup company startup companies are fertile ground fertile ground for for uh disputes if you think regular corporate life is Cutthroat startups are even more so because there’s
There’s a whole viability of the organization on the line with every passing month sometimes every passing week depending on what’s measured and how frequent now it sounds here like they’re saying the CEO and director is of engineering both are holding them responsible so they’re holding the hypothetical client
Responsible for the offer having gone out to me it sounds like in the course of them trying to explain what happened and calm the situation down it sounds like they ate a plate full of hot [ __ ] because they couldn’t get the Target off their back so they had
If their name if their name is attached to that offer and they are the only point of contact to offers being made to candidates they’re [ __ ] why because it’s got their fingerprints and only their fingerprints on it if somehow they see seed the hiring manager
Or BCC to them to make them aware of the offer going out it would it would that would serve as if confirming and acting on the hiring manager’s instruction because why our hypothetical client here gives themselves an out they say that it’s known or it’s practice it’s a standard practice
There at the firm that the hiring manager gives the direction to have offers go out that is the usual operating procedure so at no other point would the technical recruiter be sending offers without approval from a hiring manager in theory in theory but if they don’t have any receipts any support any
Evidence direct evidence or circumstantial evidence such as an email where they see seed the hiring manager or a separate email thread where the hiring manager is necessarily directing our hypothetical client to send this offer out without any of that any supporting without any supporting evidence our hypothetical clients is out to dry
There hanging by themselves in the Wind that is quite the squeeze quite the squeeze so if if they can’t prove themselves legitimately officially using internal channels like email like texts if it was in no way recorded I mean [ __ ] that’s why if you live in a states where you can record unilaterally
Or in some instances it might behoove you to record for your own personal records then you have no other way of proving that the hiring manager is behind this decision and that from one day to the next their incompetency is showing especially if this hiring manager is
Fairly well known it says here they are well known at being well known for being pretty incompetent right so if their reputation can at least support your position that it was then who had ordered the offer to go out then you should have some support for it
I think if you’re dealing with an incompetent manager and they’re fairly well known at being incompetent as a corporate cowboy you should already be working at eliminating them you should already be working at recording their incompetencies you should already have a history an archive of some kind tracking their incompetencies and how
It’s affected the way you work how it’s affected the metrics at the company foreign and how others have also been affected you’re you’re building a case not just for your success but also for their failures so if you should ever run into a situation like this
Or it’s your word against theirs and for whatever [ __ ] reason you don’t have any receipts no emails no Communications no writings no recordings then you have a case at least that displays a pattern of their incompetency and why else if not for standard operating procedure there at the company why else would you
Unilaterally send an offer without having consulted the hiring manager or without it having been directed by the hiring manager I mean the fact that you’re still taking heat from this to at least to me tells me that you may be new you may be a novice or you just maybe uneducated
And that’s not a bad thing you learn by Trials of Fire it’s trial and error it’s unfortunate that you’ve had to experience it but it’s commonplace and corporate you’re dealing with Cutthroat [ __ ] and some [ __ ] don’t give a [ __ ] about the startup’s Mission Vision objectives any Innovative creative ideas coming out
Of it they couldn’t give two [ __ ] what they what they live on what they thrive on is conflict and drama likely they’re not even there to work if they’re well known for being incompetent they’re probably not even there to work they’re collecting a check and also feeding off of attention
From drama they create now it sounds it sounds paranoia sounds paranoid the way I lay it out really it’s it’s being precautious and it’s being prudent it’s being a consummate professional you have to take into account that your standard for professionalism is not the same as everybody else’s
And that’s why you’re worried now that’s why you’re worried now but it’s because you trusted it’s because you trusted in somebody else’s ethics that are not your own now you’re having to rely on a hiring manager someone you’re you’re necessarily supposed to take orders from and work with to relay hiring offers
To relay Communications to candidates but you should be analytical of those hierarchical relationships that exist within the any organization especially your own given the people and the Departments that you work with that it says I’m worried about how this has affected the reputation your reputation on the team
Me personally I wouldn’t be worrying I wouldn’t be worrying but then again I wouldn’t be caught in this tight of a squeeze like you find yourself currently but now that you’re in it this is an opportunity to learn this is an opportunity to act the situation is salvageable
Right but you want to go back and create that case of instances where you were directed by the hiring manager to send offers to establish some form of pattern some form of precedent ideally ideally you as a technical recruiter have not been sending offers without first being instructed by the hiring manager
That way whatever internal procedure whatever internal mechanisms are about to be installed in order to keep hiring managers from being in control of candidate salaries doesn’t impact you and your position as a technical recruiter let the hiring manager’s reputation do the work let the hiring manager’s reputation for mediocrity for incompetency help you
Sink them it’s not hard it’s not difficult it’s very much salvageable but I’m giving you an optimistic opinion again it’s not very well informed ideally like I mentioned you weren’t just sending out offers without first communicating with the hiring manager for some kind of approval or a go-ahead this would establish that offers
First have to go through the hiring manager that the hiring manager is the bottleneck to the operation the hiring manager is the conflict point is the point of conflict where this conflict originates not so much you sending the offer but the approval you get the one who makes the one who approves
What you’re doing is communicating you are the technical recruiter and the hiring recruiter the hiring manager typically is in charge of salary again I I don’t we don’t have much more organizational info for our hypothetical client so we don’t know now who’s going to be in charge of salaries or salary ranges
When offers go out typically that is the hiring manager why because the hiring manager has that category of metrics that they track and the technical recruiter like I mentioned at the opening is the one who Scouts and attracts the talent they’re in Talent acquisition essentially but yeah if if the next month is
Critical and for whatever reason you were not able to free yourself or to uh to immunize yourself to cover to Shield yourself from this target you’re dealing with uh somebody was out to get you to me that looks like the hiring manager but it’s not uh it’s not hopeless it’s not impossible
Your case has to be a strong one and in any case I would say prepare for the worst expect the best and prepare for the worst you expect the best because you’re doing your best but you prepare for the worst and then the other context I would say expect the worst because
That way you’re always pleasantly surprised when it goes right but behind that you’re preparing for the worst you’re expecting the best because you’re doing your best and preparing for the worst in the sense that you might need your resume within the month especially if this next month is quote unquote critical
To you staying on especially especially because this last piece here says my manager the recruiting director okay so I guess they’re not working under the hiring manager still doesn’t change the facts for us the recruiting manager told them that I have a ways to go to regain Trust
And that the next month is critical for me I would be that’s the manager if any that’s the manager who would go to bat for you the recruiting director why because you’re a recruiter and so they know what goes on in terms of channels of communications to be established when hiring Talent
Hiring Engineers or anybody else working for the company they know a little bit about what goes on so if they understand that the standard operating procedure is to coordinate with the hiring manager and you’ve got receipts they’re more than likely willing they would more than likely be willing
To go to bat for you maybe not stick their neck out completely but at least go to bat for you especially if like you say you’re worth it and you’ve brought in a an increased value to the company as a recruiter but that all depends that all depends and those are questions
That we would ask and now they’re questions you ought to ask yourself so you didn’t come to us to help you out personally but if you find yourself in this person’s position in a hypothetical client’s position or you anticipate that you might especially if you’re working with a backstabbing piece of [ __ ] hiring
Manager who’s incompetent and they may not be intentionally backstabbing in a piece of [ __ ] but oftentimes Psychopaths and sociopaths the ones that you find in corporate aren’t even doing [ __ ] intentionally they’re like a cat with string crossed with a hamster and a wheel they don’t know where the [ __ ] they’re going
They don’t have any ultimate goal for bettering business they rarely have righteous motives those are instances that that you have to prepare for those are instances that you need to take preemptive action on and that’s going to be by safeguarding your reputation by safeguarding your work as well as the companies keep receipts
Any communication that’s done verbally you want to follow up with an email and let them know that you will be pursuing whatever action it was that they directed you toward that they instructed you on can you imagine the shield the uh the freedom being free of liability
When they bring you into the office the exemption from liability when they bring you into the office and they claim yeah we’re going to hold you responsible for having sent out this offer but you have receipts in the form of an email saved as a PDF right and the email says
Hey hiring manager this is Alex you’re a technical recruiter just sending this email to confirm I will be sending off the offer with the with the specific salary range to said client no later than this date expect to remain informed as to the next interaction or the candidate’s response
Right so that necessarily allows you to respect the chain of command the the immediate chain of command the de facto chain of command because even if it’s not in the employee manual or in the uh company manual that you should be reporting to the hiring manager the fact
That you are reporting to the hiring manager means that they’re depending on how large the company is other recruiters might be reporting to their hiring managers or to this hiring manager specifically and again that sets precedent that you were not the one with the sole Authority and discretion to be sending off
ERS without including the hiring manager in on the decision this one is a I suppose I started season eight with a somewhat easy fact pattern we haven’t had they gotten we had we didn’t need to get technically extra legal right no need for a shovel and pick just yet
And that puts us at about 30 minutes but it being the first episode I’m gonna read you one or two comments right just for the sake of introducing some additional perspective and I always critique these comments because you know given that there is a specific audience age range and
Ideological demographic on Reddit you know some of the comments May read uh not in the fashion that a corporate Cowboy would write them so it’s best if I just critique them and [ __ ] on them if necessary the first comment here says when someone says the next month is critical
It’s time to polish your resume yeah that’s it funny enough that’s how I took it that’s how I took it it’s a threat and even though I misunderstood who the threat was coming from because it was my my initial understanding that the hiring manager was your immediate manager no no actually the hypothetical
Client here clarifies that their immediate manager is the recruiting coordinator they’re the hiring their uh the recruiting director my apologies I use the wrong title so they’re the recruiting director and that’s who the threat came from now to me it that that signifies that the recruiting directors um
Metrics Were Somehow impacted because of the offer that was sent to the candidate my my the inference I take from that I’m not making any assumptions or conclusions uh any definitive conclusions but the inference that I draw from that is that the salary range was not correct right
It was either too high or too low but I would imagine it’s too high because I mean a few as the recruiter got somebody to sign on for a really low salary I don’t see this having played out the same way but if the salary range was too high and the the candidate
Takes the offer then that would impact other metrics as far as capital and funding that are coming into the organization and that that they may be trying to put a hold on to put a restraint put some restraint on still I don’t see how that could you
Know if if you really Cutthroat about it I guess if you were really pragmatic about it I don’t see why um the offer could can’t be rescinded can’t be retracted from the candidate just tell the candidate you know we’re retracting our offer or no longer pursuing uh this
Salary range or we’ve modified your job responsibilities and also the compensation which you will be offered right any number of ways to to shape that package and not have the company’s image suffer for it right but again this is going off of the assumption see now now we’re moving on
To assumptions on the assumption that you have receipts for it and if you don’t have the receipts if you don’t have emails or Communications from yourself between yourself and the hiring manager you’re kind of asked out and the hiring manager did you uh did you a little silly one
Did you a little bamboozle the [ __ ] Bamboozled you but there are some Cutthroat [ __ ] who think and operate in this way I’ve been in certain positions of power where where I’ve had to uh exercise it in in a fashion that wasn’t as productive but only because the ends
Justified the means the ends were more productive than the means that I employed right I mean I was a Hired Gun then I’m I’m a Hired Gun now but always keep in mind that what what you do righteously others can do just the same but in the contrary
Second comment here that well this was a pretty long one so I’ll go ahead and read this one and then sign off this comment reads talk about shooting the messenger ah I mean whatever it says yeah I would comment on it being being the messenger but again if if you were
Really worth a messenger if you really were a professional about being the messenger then you want to be sure that you’re not [ __ ] the bed and [ __ ] up the bag by acting unilaterally or at least not implicating your hiring manager right and I do mean implicate implicate in the connotation that you’re both
Putting in work together and that at no point in time if your hiring manager is pointing out to somebody to shoot right now I’m getting graphic if somebody points if you’re the order taker another and they are the order Giver at no point in time if they point and you shoot do you
Ever not want to implicate your hiring manager as them having their fingerprints on something on the weapon used on the ammunition type right so somewhere along that chain of command that discretion needs to be attributed to somebody and it and if it isn’t you acting unilaterally to send out offers
Then you’re hiring manager’s name necessarily has to show up next to that decision to send the offer it must it’s it’s a must but talk about shooting the the messenger well the messenger didn’t set themselves up with any contingencies the messenger the messenger got caught lacking by not moving professionally again Lessons
Learned through trial by fire this isn’t the end of your career this is just the start I don’t care how old you are you could be 21 fresh out of college you could be 60. getting started on this series B startup having gotten in at the ground level
Everybody is entry level forever that’s one of the many overarching themes of the corporate Cowboys podcast you could be the CEO and get set up and knocked down just as easily as somebody getting hired entry level and then let go the next day it says talk about shooting the
Messenger and if it was just the hiring manager that was angry I say don’t sweat it however you clearly have a Target on your back with a timeline given if it were me I had to be gone don’t let these people bully you into anxiety and depression sounds like they are typical
Corporate [ __ ] they say good luck edit to add or they edit it this to add before you leave I would make a point to have a one-to-one with the CEO I would not complain but just admit a portion of the default and clear your name at the same time something like this
Before I read this I wouldn’t take any [ __ ] portion of that default you were act you were acting under orders right if if at any point the salary range that was being offered seemed off to you I mean that’s also where you’re dropping the [ __ ] bag because if there is a typical salary
Range for a particular position for I don’t know whatever position it is that you’re hiring in and you know that it’s off or you know that something is is not right about it then you should be communicating you should be the one also communicating but again you need receipts for
Everything and if you haven’t kept any receipts [ __ ] can just charge you to the game and in this case they’re charging it to you it says it says here uh use use that time to admit a portion of the default [ __ ] that and clear your name at the
Same time something like this and they quote some language to include in an email or some [ __ ] it says Mr Mrs c-o-o I want to ensure you heard this directly from me I am a man slash woman of my word and it means everything to me I understand there is confusion on what
Happened and I will take the responsibility for sending out the letter offer on verbal Direction alone ah you see how they emphasize if it was on verbal Direction you kind of have to eat this [ __ ] sandwich because you’ve got no receipts and if you have been listening or if you
Go back and listen and restart this first episode you will find that I set you up for Success if you’ve been keeping receipts right otherwise you can create a case of past instances where you’ve been directed by the hiring manager to send the offers right you’ve
Got to come up with a case and you can drop it off on the CEO’s desk on your way out the door you don’t have to stick around and work with the hiring manager unless you want to stick around for the drama unless you want to stick out stick around for
Uh the events to come right if you really think the hiring manager will receive what they have coming to them and you can be and you can add weight behind the hammer that’s going to come down by all means create your case and pass it on to the CEO
So it says here with that language for sending out the offer letter on verbal Direction alone my intentions were to be as responsive as possible so we do so we didn’t lose the candidates to another company verbal Direction at the time seemed natural and appropriate I now see how miscommunication and intentions can
Be construed I don’t know man this is a this is a little too a little too heartfelt a little too bleeding heart I mean this is a conversation you could have with the CEO in person you won’t even have to like this is too late to be to be
Collecting receipts this is too late to be recording conversations if you’re on your way out of the company what the [ __ ] is this email going to do other than the CEO who’s gonna see it coming from somebody whose email access is going to be denied by the end of the
Week so they probably don’t give a [ __ ] they’ll just send it to archive or trash it the moment it hits their inbox I see how miscommunication and intentions can be construed I think that’s the wrong use of construed too so whatever uh I am willing to work with hiring
Managers and my team to ensure this doesn’t happen again through documenting procedures and training hiring managers I don’t know man that that last paragraph I think is unnecessary if you’re going to be having if you’re going to have a hand in training the hiring managers that that’s not that’s
Not your job that’s not your job you didn’t get hired for that so uh I personally would um I mean there are some good points there and they make light of the fact that you’re acting on verbal Direction alone I mean they called they called the hypothetical client uh that they exposed
The hypothetical client in that sense where I did also and I think that’s going to be the weakest spot the weakest point that you’re going to try and rectify now after the fact by not having had those contingencies in place from the very beginning you [ __ ] yourself you [ __ ] yourself by not
Moving professionally and a consummate professional knows to have contingencies I’m gonna let you go right here if you like what you heard by all means get in touch with us our rates are more than reasonable if you want to donate to the cause keep this podcast free
Send us a little something there’s some it’s a cash app of venmo and other links floating around and all that goes to business expenses and legal fees and office supplies and ammunition and stuff take care of yourself catch you next time oh Proof of Life by the way on my way out
Sunday February 26 2023
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