Welcome back to another episode of the corporate Cowboys podcast my name is Alex as always your host and for the next half hour you’ve got me at your disposal well more like I’ve got your ear at my disposal because this is a free console you walked into my office
Asking me these questions Alex how do I get promoted Alex how do I move up Alex how do I make more money Alex how do I work with my family if they are causing our business to fail [Laughter] business is war man everything goes in business and War
Or is it Love and War well you take care of business and business will take care of you you’ve got to love business you’ve got to love the game you need to have a love for the hustle and your struggle will seem all but short term the hustle is for the long run
You want the struggle to be short-term and the hustle to be for the long run but you need to have a love for it it’s not something you graduate from it’s something you grow old in it’s it’s the love it’s the love sure you graduate at different levels different degrees of professionalism but
But the drive the motivation striving the conviction the commitment in and of itself to be a professional to attain consummate professionalism that’s forever so if you don’t know the form of this podcast I mean we used to do longer forms like an hour hour and a half
Sometimes two hours man your boy alex was putting in work right back when I thought I was being philosophical with the [ __ ] turns out folks don’t want so much philosophy they want the here and the now not really instant gratification but they don’t want Delayed Action either you delay action that’s procrastination
Is it not so taking it upon ourselves to form these 30-minute consults where we come across questions we read through them we think about them we answer them as best we can with the context that we’re given right now we treat these questions as if they come from hypothetical
Clients so we give you an inside look a sneak peek behind the curtain on the blueprint of how we approach every case on a case-by-case basis every client is unique and comes with their own unique set of circumstances right today’s question comes from R career guidance and they’re asking
How do I work with my family when they are causing our business to fail that’s difficult man you work with family saying goes you there’s a proverb there’s a saying that goes you don’t want to do business with family don’t lend your family any money don’t borrow any money from your family
Because that’s how you get Bad Blood amongst other methods amongst other ways and that quickly could become Blood Money I’ve seen family relationships go sour become messy because of business transactions because money exchanged hands or money did not exchanged hands when someone believed that it should have it’s difficult it’s a difficult line
To balance on it’s a difficult it’s a tightrope for sure and just like walking a tightrope you need to be grounded go ahead Google how to how do you balance on a tightrope what you need is some gravitational pull in order to ground yourself you’re not touching the ground but
Directionally that’s where you’re headed and so you want to ground yourself as you walk across this tight rope of business especially if you’re dealing with family if you have family of as Associates I mean it’s fine I guess to have them as Associates but to have them as business partners
Right as business partners where you share a combined intermingled entangled interwoven interest legally on paper that’s pushing the bounds you see there’s a difference between business associates and business partners right when you enter a venture together when you start on a venture together and your names both of your names or
However number however many of their however many of you there are I don’t know why I got caught up in that sentence whatever number of Partners there are who’s ever names ends up on these business transactional documents bats were disputes can start that’s where arguments can take hold those scenes for for infighting
Get planted it’s difficult it’s difficult having to do business with those that are closer to you than your average business associates especially if they’re related to you by Blood by marriage as friends right it’s not too often I talk about friends but in business you don’t really have too many friends
You have Associates with like interests with common objectives Mutual goals that you can complete together in collaboration but friends nah I think it’s a boundary that few people ever cross and an OG that I knew once told me that you can count the number you can count the number of friends
Real friends not people you call friends but people who are actually friends your friends who would shoot rob steal for you help you bury bodies that sort of [ __ ] I mean you could do that with business associates too I suppose but those that that appreciate you unconditionally you
Can count those people on one hand no matter how old you are such a trip and the older I’ve become the more I realize that the OG was right it was it was right absolutely on the money so let me let me read through this prompt here because I’m eating a lot of
Time for this console but hey you walk into my office you’re like listening to this you want to follow us you want to share it by all means the buttons are there you know how to work whatever app it is that you’re using to listen to what’s on
You want to donate to the operation do that there’s a couple of donate links there’s a PayPal a cash app that all comes to me and it goes towards business expenses and legal fees you know anything we could ride off in the name of professional development follow us on Instagram it’s at
Corporates Cowboys with the Z on patreon the corporate Cowboys podcast and so our hypothetical client writes I’m 28 years old they’re not that much younger than I am right I mean I’m still older I’m 28 years old and I have been working alongside my dad for five years now
My brother also joined about three years ago and my fiance is also part of the business as a manager that that there is one paragraph and I think the fact that they call him dad maybe it’s a cultural thing but I’m not going to make any assumptions again if we had the
Hypothetical client in front of us we would be taking down this information as far as the biographical background experience education all of it and if you’ve been listening to the podcast long enough then you know not only do I drop gems but I drop patterns too
Right that should be a pattern that you should have picked up within the first five episodes of this uh of this new form of podcast is that you need to know your client in order to serve your client sure you can go out and market and Target
But if you don’t know who you’re marketing to or who you’re actually targeting if you don’t take down this demographical information and that’s everything from biographics to to background if you don’t take down this demographical information how exactly are you going to know the best way to inform your opinion
Right and I say this every episode as a disclaimer everything we say everything we say in regards to this question the the advice the opinion that we appear to give our opinions are not legal advice nor should you The Listener be construing them as legal advice right we do not condone or promote
Any wrongful activity wrongdoing all right you assume any risk of uh finding that these shoes fit you and lacing them up you assume the risk of that we don’t so we find that the family business is thick son brother father and the fiance all working together again we don’t know
What industry they’re in yet but they continue writing maybe we’ll find out they say we are a building company and cash flow a Building Company like a construction company I mean we are a Building Company okay 28 year old come on get with the program we are a Building Company
And cash flow is always an issue and clients don’t pay us as well as they should myself and my dad are directors and he has always wanted it to be a quote family business and for all of us children to be involved we have also made a few of our
Managers directors recently so some of the managers some of the ones who are actually putting in the work and have a little bit more uh technical knowledge of what goes on on the ground floor or at the ground floor at the ground level just on the ground in the trenches right
Some of these managers they are now promoting moving up to become directors again we don’t know we’re not privy to the compensation plans or that that they those directorship positions come with but I would imagine it’s something you know worthwhile something to keep directing their departments unless they’re continuing to
Hire and replace those managers as they move up again more questions to ask a follow-up with the hypothetical client which if we had them in front of us it would be a thorough thorough and fleshed out interview to get all this information before we could even venture to pose an opinion right Continuing my brother works from home around three hours away and this is a big issue damn that sounds like a big [ __ ] issue but if they work from home I hope I imagine that they’re taking on those administrative duties or those executive duties that they can manage from home
Whether it’s emailing clients keeping up with them following up Zoom meetings conferences again we don’t know they’re three hours the [ __ ] away and we would ask if we could but we can’t unfortunately no one in the company respects him he basically gets to do what he wants
And we have clear facts that his department is losing US money but my dad won’t hear of it okay well sounds like short-sightedness for the sake of family business right if you have clear facts and your father wants to hear nothing about it and your brother doesn’t want to show up to work
That’s an issue that’s an issue continuing we tried to discuss it in our manager’s meeting last week and afterwards I got a phone call from my dad saying quote he’s your brother quote and to basically watch what we say because he’s upset [Laughter] he’s losing the company money what he’s
He’s not pulling his weight what he’s not developing himself or what he’s just running on those Vapors getting high on those Vapors of being the owner’s kid the owner’s son right I mean and it’s not saying much this 28 year old hypothetical client is also the owner’s son
And far be it from me to say that the situation is going to improve I mean they’re pretty deep and entangled they’re working there and their fiance is working there I think they should be uh thinking as a team instead of having their father direct their lives but but because they are
There now they’re making a check earning money from them earning their livelihood essentially right that’s where they feed their family from or their potential family from that’s where they feed and clothe themselves for the moment I get it you want to abide by your father’s wishes as best as possible
But if they are not making good business sense what you’re gonna go down with this burning ship you’re not the captain you’re not the captain you want to present this evidence present these facts to the owner good luck the person whoms you’re presenting these facts against just happens to be your brother right
And so if your brother is coasting along on the fact that they’re the owner’s kid what prospects do you have of the owner actually doing anything about it to address it I mean we corporate Cowboys we are not suggesting that your father kick your brother’s ass into shape
Tell him to pull more weight but as an owner your father should be asking questions of your brother’s department and your brother has your father trained you both how to lead how to be managers even and it sucks that I have to point this out that they’re your father and you’re their son
But put the family relations aside they are your supervisor and you are their manager you are their subordinate you are their middle manager and this other middle manager the one you have adverse facts about the the negative facts the uh the the the cash bleeding facts the negative cash flow facts about
They’re also a middle manager and they’re on the same rank as you are and you are in the same organization together questions you should be asking should be directed to your brother and your brother’s Department to this other middle manager to find what they are doing right what they are doing wrong their
Strengths their weaknesses opportunities for improvement is there more training needed more resources in a certain area I mean it sounds too easy of a scapegoat too easy of a justification to just say oh they’re working from home they’re three hours away from work they must not care about the job because
They’re not here physically they’re not here physically present we don’t know what they’re doing at home right this this career counseling [ __ ] gets a little deeper the plot thickens when you’re dealing with family I mean Beyond career counseling we’ve counseled families before I’ve canceled families before Sometimes what’s needed is someone to take the lead Take the Lead but not assert themselves but just take the first step show you have those attributes of a leader show you can lead but as a professional demonstrates that you’re working together as a cohesive unit notice how I left out family
As a cohesive unit as an organized firm a Building Company there’s got to be a better word for that I would definitely be railing on the hypothetical client over that what the [ __ ] is a Building Company you mean construction you mean development you mean Contracting we don’t know
Too General too vague we would love to know But ultimately that’s secondary to the primary issue of lack of leadership now I’ve been around enough to recognize that tends to be a common unfortunately somewhat patterning issue in family businesses is that the parent still wants to assert themselves as the parent
So they’re not just the boss or the owner but they’re also the dad which is why you’re calling them here the dad and that’s kind of what I was alluding to in the beginning with the factor 28 you worked for him and still call him dad
You have a fiance again I’m not bagging on you I don’t know too much about you you got to grow the [ __ ] up right and if that hurts it may be because your dad your dad wasn’t leading you into business your dad was just parenting you into the family business which is why
He comes back with this retort after the manager’s meeting but he’s your brother and he’s upset go [ __ ] could talk to him talk to him about what his Department [Laughter] because this is business we’re not talking about oh he ate dad he ate my lunch out of the fridge no we’re talking about
Dead dead or boss we’re losing every quarter and it’s coming from this department what do we do how do we address it how do we triage the [ __ ] to stop the bleeding the hemorrhaging but that requires everybody being involved everybody taking apart recognizing the role they play not just
As family because you could always lean I don’t mean rely sometimes you cannot rely on family but you could always lean lean on that family tie until it [ __ ] snaps oh well I’m family oh I’m your son or I’m your dad that’s your brother [ __ ] who gives a [ __ ]
If he’s losing you money you need to address it as the money that’s being lost the opportunity to both be a dad and a leader in business is right there but again I’m not in the box I’m just thinking outside of it for you it’s what you paid me for hypothetically right
It’s what you came into my office for to ask it’s what clients and you’re not my client it’s with this hypothetical client would be paying me for it’s the even show the owner the father how to investigate opportunities for improvement opportunities to develop professionally we don’t even know what the brother does
For him to be fumbling the bag so [ __ ] bad let me continue reading a bit I mean we’re almost done here and I’m sorry I’ve kind of gone off on tangents but I’ve said it before this serves as a form of both practice for me and cathartic therapy
I’ve worked with family before I’ve seen family work together again I’ve dealt with families I’ve counseled families it’s difficult it really is So we tried to discuss in our manager’s meeting last week and afterwards I got a phone call from my dad saying he’s revolver and to basically watch what we say because he’s absurd [ __ ] all of the other directors agree with me and they don’t like the fact my brother was
Made a director also without them being informed and my dad promised people transparency as directors but it seems like it’s still him making all the decisions sounds like a shittily run Corporation and well I mean we don’t even know what type of entity they’re in right but but if it
Is a corporation and there are directors these directors are shareholders I mean your your dad’s kind of exposing himself your dad is showing the soft white underbelly that’s primed for a [ __ ] shareholder’s suit a lawsuit because they’re making these decisions which again we don’t know right what the what they’re incorporating documents
Look like you see look at me now I’m digging into into legal Theory we don’t know what the what their shareholders agreement if they even have one looks like their bylaws if they have them what they look like but if they have directors and this chairman
The CEO the owner your father is just acting unilaterally making these decisions when they should be presenting them to the other directors to the board of directors to decide together and vote if he’s just making these decisions unilaterally that’s a lawsuit baby you need to you need to move very carefully tread
Very carefully if you don’t you’re liable at least your father is and in turn your family is because you all work together not just monetarily but the reputation in the industry the building industry if it’s that big or if you’re that known continuing on top of this my dad spends money like crazy
Our company has already failed once and we owe money and we owe people money but instead he spends money on clients events fancy hotels in London training days and materialistic items yeah it just sounds like it’s shittily run I wonder if you guys have an accountant
I wonder if you guys uh engage with CPAs I mean that’s how you keep all that [ __ ] in line you create budgets keep balance sheets again we don’t know how big the company is we don’t know how many directors the total number of directors there are the employees under them
The number of departments you see this this could be a company that’s doomed to fail or a company that’s just going through a rough patch because they have this family bubble maybe next quarter next fiscal year they get voted out and the company won’t have this problem anymore
Maybe maybe then the family could take a step back and recapacitate and realize that they were the ones with the issue not the company and when they were in the company they should have been thinking corporate they should have been thinking professionally instead of emotionally but it’s what you get when you
Deal with family just an extra layer of emotion and emotion is good emotion can be nice you must learn to control it I’ve said this before you have to move calm collected cool calculated going into business and if you should so choose to go into business with family
They’ve got to be moving the same way otherwise they’re a risk and if these are people you grew up with then you should know that’s why they say it’s some of the riskiest business dealing with family because you assume the risk knowing who it is you do business with
And then being family you can’t just cut ties but you can do fire them and then you have all this emotional repercussion or blowback to deal with I mean it’s enough that you can get a disgruntled employee walking up on you now imagine family that’s the risk for Bad Blood
And they end here by saying I feel like I see another failure coming and I don’t know what I can do to stop it I feel defeated and like what’s the point anymore and like Okay and like what’s the point anymore like yeah you write like uh like a daddy’s
Boy you ride like like the owner’s son which again I’m not judging I’ve been there before again I come from a family of workers hard workers we’ve owned businesses before and that’s where I get my work ethic from if anything because yes while I was given some
Privileges they taught me how to work since I was young I wasn’t allowed to just talk back or talk [ __ ] to the employees because I was the owner’s kid nah and I didn’t even get paid I mean I got my food for free breaks I guess whenever
When I first learned if I had time to lean I have time to clean and then when I went to work got my first real job W-2s and everything I got my first real job it was with uh a famous burger company on the west coast very famous burger company on
The West Coast I’m sure you’re thinking of it now when I got my first job there I already knew how to do everything I just needed to go through the motions of the training to learn their specific procedures and policies but I already knew how to wipe
Tables down how to take orders speak to customers interact with them customer service mop sweep Grill even I already knew how to do all that but I think my family for it they were geared a little more towards the business operation towards the professional operation of it and professional development
I mean they may not have had that in their minds because they weren’t formally educated mbas and had that in the Forefront than their foresight and planning for it nah nah but with time I took a step back and realized that my family wasn’t the issue it’s just
A lack of perspective a lack of technical knowledge and know-how lack of expertise lack of counseling a lack of career Direction now that I’m older and I can look back and see young Alex I know he did right and he was done right by his family his managers his employers
If you find yourself in a similar position and I get it working with families is a difficult thing you might choose the jump ship if it’s sinking you don’t have the correct leadership it’s like any other employment it’s like any other employer any other company what would you do
They’re driving the company into the ground and you are a director you are a manager will the company be there next year will you have a job or should you be polishing your resume it’s a tough question but obviously we’d need more specifics before I tell you outright yeah go do this [ __ ]
Or refer your family we’re here for you this is Corporate counseling not just career counseling career counseling is very broad very general professional counseling take care have a nice one
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