I’d like to take a moment to thank all of the channel members I appreciate you guys so much if you’d like to become a channel member the link is below and to everyone in the live chat tonight or watching the replay thank you so much for your Support All [Applause] All [Applause] Four students found each had multiple stab wounds some had defensive wounds showing they fought with the attacker and there was no sexual assault County coroner Kathy mbot is describing the murders as Personal Okay guys so oh my gosh can you hear me I hope you can I’m going to try something a little bit different today that’s why I was just trying set up just to improve the quality of the live stream and all the things that we can bring to you without it buffering or
Fudging up or all those fun things that streamyard likes to do to us creators and community at times right so we’re gonna see how this goes so look there’s me and there’s me and there’s me live my like background not set up so great oh but maybe there’s not
Truly me just give me one I get my friends and I promise you I will get this all figured out can you see me can you see me waving to you let me know if you can because that’s going to make a difference um so
I have a camera up there this is going to be super weird I don’t even know if I can pull this off like mentally but it’s so great to see all of you guys I’m so happy you’re here let’s see oh great instruction thank you Tina thanks for
Being here um nope you can’t see me okay so maybe I’m not even going to try to do this fancy stuff going try to do that another time so um I’m going to be ready for it next time remove that all good okay so as long as
You can still hear me we are good to go just trying to improve the quality of things for you I know I have not been doing as many um live streams and videos lately because had some other stuff going on too of course just life stuff nothing big or traumatic or anything but
I’m behind the scenes trying to improve things for you and also preparing to do some totally not totally toally different things but different things with the channel so yeah now you can see my picture okay can’t see your picture um you have more problems with your
Podcast you know this is like my side dayg so I just do my best if you want to be here I’m so happy to have you here if the problems bother you I totally get it sometimes I’m bothered by problems too it’s all good right so it’s all good but
Like what you get is what you get though so you can hear me now you can see me and it’s all good okay so um welcome everybody it’s great to see you moderators you’re the best members love you subscribers welcome and if you’re just checking out the channel we love
For you to click like subscribe and we definitely want you to come back so hope to see you glad you’re here hope to see you again hi fluffy Muppet Hi basnik how are you doing Kevin hi Soul Shine for Jesus Christ how are you doing um doing nightly chores and listening I love
Doing that kind of thing um Soul Shine for Jesus surpris like listen to a good podcast or YouTube channel and just doing what you got to do nothing like it hi Joan love you so much same to you m and jod is cool Brandy Wine true cry I’m
So happy you’re here my darling always wonderful to see you hi Angel D how’s it going Edward same to you and I’m just going to say hello to the people that are kind of on the bottom here so we can get going um and if I miss you I’m sorry
Just say hello and try to say hello back let’s see awesome hi DC Prime Time how are you I try to be you know it’s like is hard guys I get it you know people can be a little bit nasty and sometime I mean not saying that with
That person just said it was totally nasty but being a channel creator you definitely find that and I know that you as human beings find that in everyday life and I just try to remember that life is really freaking hard for all of us and I really do believe that people
For the most part are really doing their best you know um and hey AR sweetheart how are you doing yes please do hit that like I would very much appreciate it hi Mitch how are you sweetheart great to see you as well and let’s see py Cy be
How are you doing great to see you also um yeah so you get that you like to to listen to something and get some stuff done too absolutely so let’s talk about the Idaho case a little bit so you know there have been some things going
On a number of different things so I want to try to focus this evening on talking about the FBI’s role in this entire investigation so a few things we do know right off the bat it was announced that there were initially I think the initial reports and we’re
Talking in the first hours definitely within the first days of the investigation starting 25 and then 26 FBI agents correct so that is like a really that’s a lot of FBI resources um you know from go obviously this was a high-profile case this was a
Horrific case this was a case that had a community and a region and a nation and really people across the world terrified because it’s one of these what if cases oh my God I relate to those people what if that was me what if that was my best
Friend what if that was my mother brother sister child whatever the case may be the Idaho case definitely brought that element of humanism and fear to people across the globe so the fact that there were such a high number of FBI personnel and resources on the scene
From start was not surprising to me I don’t think it was surprising to many people in fact um in the very early days we heard through former FBI analysts and you know people that worked with or in the FBI that their assessment of what
They were able to see as far as what was going on right at the crime scene at 1122 King Road and from what they knew and they heard as well um was that the FBI had the fullblown capacity of their mobile Prime lab up and running right
Outside that house so what that does is it saves a lot of time it saves a lot of guessing work and ultimately right you’re trying to save a lot of hours a lot of Manpower you’re trying to cut down you’re trying to cut that gap between the lead that the as salent had
On law enforcement and actually identifying who that is um apprehending that person in custody and beginning the process of serving Justice for the victims and peace for the families which is what one of our primary goals and and pillars of beliefs is here on this
Channel um so you know none of that was too much of a surprise although you know there were people who were in The know in law enforcement former FBI or in those higher ranks of law enforcement he said wow hot Dam like that is a lot of
Manpower that is a tremendous amount of resources what is going on here I remember in the early days there was speculations people were saying you know and I remember thinking this had to be the case a while myself I remember talking about it on this channel oh my
God are we dealing with a serial killer here because the the indicators in my mind that was making me think that was a real possibility was the amount of Manpower of resources you know directed immediately towards this case so we come full circle almost one year later on
November 13th 2023 in a few days from now it’s going to be one year since this horrific tragedy happened can you believe it um and you know the FD is still and has been throughout at the Forefront of this investigation well of course and also you know making news and
Headlines as it pertains to this investigation which is now you know a trial um and oh gosh honey bun I didn’t see your answer would you like to come up soon and talk about that experience or towards the end sweetheart one of our um value channel members subscribers long
Time she’s been with us for a while as part of the True Crime Community had a forest fire very close to her house in threatening distance of her house and actually had to like get in with the um fire responders with with the the firefighters and help them fight that
Fire to save herself her property her animals and her neighbors so I mean I’m sure that was a really harrowing experience I know honey bunny wants to come up and say thank you at the very least um you know to those firefighters and just tell us little about that I’m
Gonna I’ll bring you up right now honey so we’re gonna bring her up and um just let her let her say her peace I think that this is this is important so come on up honey bun I just can’t even imagine um I just can’t even imagine you
Know there’s where I live in Upstate New York there’s some you know forest fires occasionally nothing in the way of what we’ve seen in um California for sure I think out in Australia right some other parts of the world where these forest fires are just absolutely devastating
And they pose a constant like seasonal or sometimes not even seasal it’s almost like year round threat um it’s just it’s pretty wild um let’s see yeah Brandy Wine says so glad you’re okay honey bun absolutely yeah I mean we certainly all feel that way Jones say honey bun you’re a hero
Absolutely she is oh did I put did I actually send you or did I put the link in chat so here’s a link if you come up now we’ll catch you now if not we’ll hear from me in a little bit for sure so whatever you want to do is great sweetheart
Um yeah I don’t know if I put the L in um Edward says oh that’s right Eastern Canada was smoking out New York state for two months this past summer um sorry about that that was freaking nuts I don’t know if some of you had seen I had
Posted some pictures in a community post of a location that was just you know 20 minutes from me where somebody took you know a picture of this this beautiful scenery I do believe it was from like their their back porch you know on a day when everything was all clear and then
The day when it first settled and over a period of 4 days and it looked like the I just my grandmother was a heavy smoker and I kept thinking of how you know what she she moved into a new little house and every time I go back her walls were
A darker color of that like nicotine Tarin I that’s just what it reminded me of it was really wild so anyway here’s honey bun hey honey bun how are you sweetheart hey I’m great how are you good and thank God you’re okay so tell us about what Happ yeah okay so I I
Didn’t tell y’all this um my grandmother was actually the one that started it with the firework oh goodness oh boy oh Grandma I know but I to I kind of took the blame for it I I never said her you know I just didn’t I didn’t want she
Already yeah yeah so she got burnt a little bit on her arm but it was not like a direct burn it was just from being close to it but uh but she is okay she just she put some aloe vera on it and she was all right but go so so it’s
Really dry here in the South I’m in Alabama and they have they have a no burn right now but never did we suspect that one single firecracker would would do anything and uh she was a she was wanting to make a video us when they put those when they
Put those Nob burn warnings out in a community they mean it they do they do they mean don’t even St lighter if you smoke don’t don’t throw them out the window it’s it’s that bad so uh we have volunteer firefighters because I’m a small town and um we we
Don’t we don’t have a whole lot and there’s not hardly any help hardly any volunteers so what had happened was one of the fire trucks showed up and it happened to be my town and it was just one person and those fire hoses are so heavy and he was struggling and and one
Person can’t do it so I just I had a bucket of water and I just dropped it I said you want me to pull that hose for you and he said if you want to he said please that would be great so I just dropped everything and I ran over there
And I started pulling hose and the other fir truck came I pulled their hose and we had about seven fire trucks here and uh and it was about 20 feet on one side of the house and 30 feet on the other from being oh my gosh oh my goodness yeah but I think
Okay that your grandma’s okay that your animals are okay and that everyone’s okay and and that was really Brave to do and we have to than our First Responders all the time water were were useless I mean so I was like I was like I don’t even think
Oh and we have a business too here so it was also threatening that and and it was just insane so my I the only thing I could think of was just help them because they’ve got everything that that’s going to put this fire out so um
They had to call in bulldozers and and I just who if there’s anybody in here now that’s firefighters or have family that’s firefighters man that’s a rough job it’s a very rough job and I just wanted to shout out to them and just thank them from the bottom of my heart
For getting here on time and getting it out and helping everybody and I it was just insane but I did have a point where I couldn’t do anything else um I had helped all I could without a suit on and uh I just I went in there I had a case
Of bottled water I threw it on the back of the four-wheeler and I just started going as soon as they would come out of the woods I was handing them water and which was the best thing I could do for them um for for doing for us like they
Did you know my animals were also amazing because they they individually was one-on-one with all of these firefighters just they were loving on them you know and they were they were good to have like for emotional support guess um absolutely everybody was wonderful and and that’s that was
Another thing I wanted to say it says no burn here in the South let’s just not do that let’s not burn nothing yeah I remember I had to cancel a camp camping trip with my my son and his friend I was going to take him camping but they you
Know the one of the whole big draws was that we were going to be doing you know the campfires and stuff and they had no burn policy I was like sorry we’re just not going like you know so yeah what’s a camp what’s a camp time without a campfire
Exactly well I’m so glad that you’re okay sweetheart thank you for being here thank you thank you for sharing your story and thank you to all the First Responders and brief people who are fighting fires and fighting crime all over the world we are so super grateful
For you yes thank you so much for having me on I’m glad okay all right take care are you bye bye oh God we’re so glad honey Bun’s okay she’s special and thank god um so let’s see Richard Mullen says come bath with massive fakery and BK case there
Was comparison test between the sheath DNA profile and BK’s DNA from the cheek swab and I think you tried to tell us a little bit more about that let’s see what you had to say Mr Richard Mullins who continues and saying the test with ASW doctored all of the
Markers in the sheath DNA did not match BK for in what he’s trying to say is that it was someone else they were removed moved from the sheath DNA profile so you know if you do have more information on that I would love for you
To send it me please email me at WS subsession gmail.com I have heard claims like that and you know I’m happy to hear your opinion you’re welcome to have your opinion here everybody is the welcome a range of opinions and everybody please be respectful in chat but I do have to
Say to this time I have not found anything in my research that substantiates that not to say no everything because I do not but I wanted to give you a chance to say your piece there so it has been said all right here we go so let’s take a look um I was
Going to do more of a deep dive into the until this evening when I got home and I saw the abundance of discussion that is happening right now about the FBI’s role in this investigation right now which I knew was happening but it seems like
It’s picked up a little bit and as I tuned into it I learned some additional things so we’re going to go to that for right now um so without further Ado because I’ve been doing enough oops bring that back in and again thank you so much honey bun for coming up I really
Appreciate it here we go tonight FBI investigators wrap up the first of two days they’re spending at the Moscow home where four University of Idaho students were killed nearly a year ago they’re on site today and tomorrow to collect Visual and audio data that will help construct a model of the
Home chief journalist I’m sorry this report was one of the most recent and most I could find creme 2 was the first news channel that was on the scene at 1122 King Road when this tragedy occurred they were one of the they’re one of the only news organizations that
I can actually find footage from from the date of November 13 2022 and they’re still of course going at it so this is very very recent Amanda relly joining us now live from Moscow tonight where the FBI has just left for the evening well since the trial for the Moscow
Murder suspect has been delayed indefinitely the FBI is taking advantage of this extended time to gather measurements of their own of the home to construct a model now throughout the day we saw Crews Gathering images coming in and out of the home and even bringing
Out what Le what’s left over as far as personal belongings and moving them outside the home where zaner kodal Ethan Sha Ben Madison Mogan and Kaye gonalves were killed one year ago still stands today the plywood securing the windows and door of the house has been removed and a
Specialized team with the FBI are on site collecting measurements and images they launched a drone over the house this morning and appeared to be collecting images using 3D scanning technology this will all be used to construct a model of the home we won’t learn much more about what the FBI is
Doing because it’s still an ongoing investigation so I asked Idaho’s former State Attorney General and County prosecutor David Leroy what he makes of this collection of evidence in this instance it appears the prosecutor is going to put some significant emphasis by virtue of a model and videos in terms
Of helping the jury understand how an alleged perpetrator might have moved through the house to get in to go to whatever is alleged to be the first crime scene to pass then to the second crime scene we noticed investigators are using farro 3D laser scanners the company’s website says this technology
Can be used by law enforcement and prosecutors to reconstruct a crime scene and present it in the courtroom this is the diagram of today’s courtroom everything you see here is measurable a demonstration video from far’s website shows a few different ways to present the images including a fly
Overview or virtual view of the scene but most importantly you can create a specific Viewpoint what did that first responder see what did that witness see or what could the witness maybe not see from that perspective it’s not clear what version will be used in this case but far’s demonstration does give some
Insight into the possibilities now in the meantime the house will be re secured once the FBI is done here as really as tomorrow now the university says it still intends to demolish the home but it does not plan to do that this semester reporting in Moscow Amanda relly k 2
News okay and we’re going to pick up a little more on that I just wanted to give you a sort of I find creme to news to be a rather like kind of like an NPR or an AP News locally there in um Idaho I feel like they are pretty um I feel
Like they’re pretty shoot straight from the hip right um Angel D ask question interesting you ask um I actually intended on talking about this a while ago but then I stopped talking about anything having to do with the um that family specifically or anything that I had learned from the two fraternity
Brothers that I’ve been in touch with forever as most of you know um because they started getting some weird kind sometimes things just get heavy with that I’m going to be honest um there are definitely people that do not like that I not myself personally but a a
Channel um anyone that has a platform in this case strangely enough and it always feels weird to me it happens to be my channel um that has a connection that is maybe that is inside the case there’s like no two ways about it that’s just how it is
Um that is willing to share information and hopefully Tastefully and discerningly disseminate that information as through conferencing with themselves myself and usually legal council we see fit um that is our right according to our legal council it is not underneath the restraints of the gag order so anybody who’s starting to type
Get your fingers all tingly and hot getting ready to threaten me with that don’t worry we are thoroughly covered on that um to that end um so I stopped talking about it but I am going to answer this question because I do think it’s important and I think it’s a piece
Of information that a lot of people would like to know to have a better understanding of what happened um and what was seen by the eyes of the perpetrator that evening and I do think that this is something that this channel has unique insight into into just by the
Random not totally random but the not usual virtue of myself and my friend Alex who is an attorney having that relationship with the two guys who are um on the inside there so Angel D says Kelly do you know if the red Jeep was driven over to 11:22 that morning by
Hunter chapen so that’s HC so the per wouldn’t have seen the red Jeep outside at 400 a.m. okay so the the two guys that I have primarily been talking to and you know in talking to them I’ve talked to a few other people not nearly as much or intensely as them but the
Consensus among them is that that the red Jeep was not there when the perpetrator was scoping out the house and then arrived and the reason is this that vehicle was shared between three siblings who were all attending school on that campus as y all know okay two of them were in the same
Fraternity um the sister was not too far away way um you know she was in a sorority all of them you know hung out in a similar area definitely on Greek row and in that area um anything that you know about that beautiful beautiful amazing family the chapen family um if
You know anything about them you probably know that they’re very close that the siblings were very close they did a lot together since since they were born since before they were born and they all went to the University of Idaho together in the same fashion that they had always lived their lives and
Maintained their bond between them um they kind of hung in the same circles they weren’t those kind of siblings that were like you know if I see you out and you see me out we’re going to we don’t know each other that’s embarrassing um they from everything I’ve learned and from everything I
Imagine most of you have learned they really embrac the bond that they had that very special and unique Bond I don’t even have brother or sister I’m an only child I can’t imagine having a twin or a triplet and it was a sacred bond to them and they cherished it and they
Valued it and it was part of their lives and it was a it was a blessed part of their lives with all that being said that was a vehicle that they would use between them and with 1122 King Road being in you know obviously zanna’s residence Ethan spent a lot of time
There people have asked questions about his so-called permanent residents I don’t have anything more to say about that at this time although there are answers to that question um you know there was more parking available at 1122 King Road obviously than a lot of other houses or residents
Or um fraternities or sororities in that area because they had that little like I don’t know I’ve never like counted exactly how many spots it’s supposed to be was it supposed to be like four or something but you can certainly fit a lot more cars in there and you know I
Don’t know if you know I’ll remember when you were in that age or if you went to college you know you have talents at that age or when you’re in college for fitting things like cars into spaces where that many cars are not supposed to fit so anyway they could always seem to
Find a parking spot there and having that vehicle being shared between the three of them it was a common place where that vehicle would be parked sometimes for a short time maybe you know let’s say Ethan is going to Zas he’s going to park the car there maybe
Maisy is GNA want to use the car to take her friend somewhere I I don’t know I’m making this situation up you know he’ll text her here it is they had a situation of how they would leave a set of keys um if that was needed and off they would go
So the point of the story is that’s an awesome question Angel D Kelly do you know if the red Jeep was driven over to 11:22 that morning by Hunter chapen so the per wouldn’t have seen the red Jeep outside at 4: a.m. that is correct and
It is the widely held belief by those who were actually there that the red Jeep was not there when the perpetrator was scoping out the house absolutely children should outlive their parents so sad my God I know um Aries Park it’s breathtaking hi American princess welcome how are you doing um
Yes that yeah you’re right American princess you’ve been coming in with some great facts yeah they don’t just have that one car between them but but they um they did share the vehicle so does that make sense yeah um I appreciate you sharing Kelly absolutely there’s so much speculation
About it and I was sure I’d heard his mom say they drove over that morning um yes um from everything that I know and this has never been in question that is absolutely the case and I actually um at some point had a more focused conversation about that and if I had
Talked about it right after having those well was a setup conversations I probably would have felt comfortable giving you more detail but at this point it’s been a while and I I do want to revisit that but I will be happy to find out a little more about that for you if
It’s something you guys are interested in my boys can’t even share bottle of Coke without a fight I know yeah yeah um yeah it it was not there when the house was being um um you know scoped out that evening yeah Cecil great question yeah I mean you are allowed to sayate your
Opinion please be respectful that as our rule there but you know if you are going to be stating things as fact we do ultimately want to know where you are sourcing your information okay all right so look who it is it’s my girl you know I don’t intend I’m going
To play something from Nancy Grace I don’t intend to be like the you know um constantly promoting Nancy Grace material but it just so happens that when I sit down to you know say okay where’s like this material on this topic that we want to talk about often times she just came out
With something that I find to be interesting on the topic so here goes our girl DC new stove is the FBI the Federal Bureau of Investigation tearing apart the crime scene of the Idaho 4 sleigh why is that happening why is the FBI out in Idaho tearing up carpet looking at the
Walls looking at the windows taking pieces of board what are they doing this is Brian koberger the doctoral student charged in the slaying of four beautiful University Idaho students in their sleep or half sleep in the middle of the night the we early morning around 4: a.m. while he
Sits in his cell getting a special vegan diet watching whatever he wants he has control of his remote on TV and Gathering female admirers on the internet what’s happening when is Brian cobber going to trial and is the death penalty still on the table I’m nany Grace this is crime stories thank you
For being with us here at crime stories and on Series XM 111 first of all let’s kick it off we’ve got an allar panel to make sense of what we’re learning right now but listen first to victim Zanna kot’s mother there are things like uh in the investigation that I would have
Liked to see go differently I would have liked to see um I would like to see more coming from the kids that attended school there the people that were at the Frat party um the fraternity member members um what what were they all doing what was happening at the party
Before and you know what I’ve got to say to Zan Colonel no’s mom saying this and I don’t know what her intention is for saying this um if she’s wondering because she’s suspicious of them and if she was I don’t blame her um you know those same fraternity members who know
That there is no reason to be suspicious of them because they had absolutely positively no hand in this crime also desperately want to be speaking out because they are in many ways suffering because they cannot speak out in memory of their brother um their literal brother um their you know their their symbolic
Brother and their brother in their heart is their fraternity brother and um you know for for the sake of their um own um reputation and lives at this very formable age in that Community because of this in my opinion overly Broad and overly strict gag order they came home
Um I I really just want and and anybody who was at the grub truck with Kaylee and Maddie or at the bar with Kaye and Maddie um I would like to see I would like to see answers coming from from those people um it just it it kind of
Bewilders me that we haven’t heard anything from any of them because they were the last people to see these kids alive you know I’ve got such an incredible panel joining us right now but I want to go first to Jean fiser for former Chief Deputy prosecutor in Boise
Idaho Idaho is this jurisdiction where the slaves the four murders went down she specialized in murder and you can find her today at building hop today.org Jean you’re hearing Zanna kol’s mother who has lived through complete hell you know Jean I thought I knew it all about
Grief and suffering when my fiance was murdered shortly before a wedding but now that I have the twins John David and Lucy I didn’t know anything because the worst possible thing that could happen is to lose your child and I’m sure about That Jane you hear the mom you hear zanah corot’s mom talking about things that she would like to have seen done differently in this investigation this is Caren Northington and she’s focusing on the parties leading up to the murders that night the fraternity sorority parties we know that uh several of the
Four were at a food truck really really late at night like after 1:00 a.m. they stopped to get food at a food truck before they went home have you in your practice Jean talk to victim’s parents and you listen to what they’re saying and it may or not may not be
Relevant to the case like the DNA shows that Brian koberger handled the murder weapon and the sheath because the sheath has his DNA on it and it’s practically under one of the Dead VI victims so maybe what zanna’s mother is saying is irrelevant maybe it doesn’t matter who
Was at the party five hours before who was at the food truck three hours before on the other hand Jan maybe it does matter because zanna’s mother thinks two people were involved I don’t she does but I find the significance Jean what if coburger was lurking around around
Either of those two places wouldn’t that solidify the case for the state good morning ncy yeah I mean I I really feel for um for her for the parents for the survivors in this and the common it’s so common to have parents um victims asking some of these sort other questions and wanting
To know exactly what she’s asking who was at the party who was at the truck those sorts of things um because because what’s happened is unimaginable and and you just want all the answers and everything that you possibly can to understand how this could have happened
Now as you said some of that stuff is is irrelevant um it isn’t as though it’s certainly not here and not Nationwide have just SE there hasn’t been substantial amount of of um reporting on this of law enforcement in the Moscow Community um you know the photos of the
Girls at the food truck trying to find everybody and anybody who talked to them and they did do some followup as you recall you know they did have a well yeah and they thought that they had you know the I think it was the Uber driver
Y and that that was a suspect and I mean they did do a lot of that and how do you with victim’s families I mean for you and I we think that is irrelevant because we believe we know who the Killer is and it’s not the
Guy at the food truck and it’s not some drunk frat boy at at the whatever house the sigma Kai house or whatever house it was but she’s right we have to exhaust as prosecutors every single Avenue what if someone at that part of your food truck saw coburger what if they were
Were connected to cober somehow so I understand where the mother is coming from I completely understand as a l person especially that’s not in the investigation every single day she thinks hey is there relevance and maybe there is as of right now there’s not but you hear zanna’s mother speaking out and
Later I’m going to let you in on her statements regarding she thinks that there is another person involved uh A lot’s happening in the case against Brian coburger right now uh first of all there has been a very powerful motion to dismiss the indictment in other words throw out the
Chares and the judge whose name coincidentally is Judge it’s John judge so he’s judge judge that’s it I want you to hear what the judge says about the defense’s slew of arguments to have these charges thrown out listen the Idaho criminal rule specifically rule 6.5a uh expressly states that probable
Cause is the standard not Beyond A Reasonable Doubt for a grand jury’s indictment and I think I have three or four recent because this this argument has been circulating in the state I think I’ve had three or four District judge decisions uh denying the motion and the argument
So I am going to deny that argument okay look uh we may think that there was no grounds for the charges to be thrown out but you get one crackpot judge up on the bench you don’t know what they’re going to do I have had judges
Well one of the times I was held in contempt the judge was completely ruling against all the black and white letter of the law and I said and his Nancy Grace held in contempt No Way name was Judge Presley may he rest in peace said judge Presley just turn around and right
Behind you is a bookshelf and on that bookshelf is the ocga the official code of Georgia annotated not just the code but the annotations all the law supporting the law and the interpretation if you would just swivel your chair around and grab ocga 30- bl- blah and look on page 356 you’ll see
That your ruling is completely contradictory to the law I was held in contempt but I was right it didn’t feel very good saying I’m right when I was getting fingerprinted but you never know what a judge is going to do this judge did the right thing what were the claims the
Defense what was mounting and they had a lot of claims listen hours of arguments between cober’s lawyers the prosecution and the judge have occurred in private behind closed doors without cameras but in court papers Brian cober’s defense team claims the grand jury was biased there was insufficient evidence to
Charge coburger in the first place and that prosecutors withheld evidence that would exonerate cerer while the defense has made these serious allegations they have yet to show any of the evidence to back up their claims joining me right now uh an expert who has been at the scene of the crime along
With me in fact he showed me he directed me to a lot of points of interest and I don’t mean like um I’m looking at Niagara Falls that kind of point of Interest I mean look at this this proves X look at that that proves y drive this
Route not that right look over here not over there that’s what I’m talking about Chris mcdunn is with me director of The coold Case Foundation former homicide detective at least 300 homicides under his belt host of a YouTube channel where I found him the interview room Chris McDonna how highly recommended by this
Channel as well upsetting you know it never failed to upset me when the defense would claim oh she’s with holding evidence when I had handed over my whole file except for my own work product my notes my questions my own theories and but yet that argument would still be made and
It’s a black ey for you the homicide investigator and the prosecutor because it looks like you’re playing dirty pool that you’re going to win through nefarious means and that’s no win at all because it’ll be reversed on appeal we really take the punches in the gut don’t we
100% Nancy and one of the worst things that could ever happen uh to your point is a rogue judge taking all of these oh and by the way this recording from Nancy Grace is very recent all of these points uh of the sorry Nancy I don’t like to take things that just came
Out but um she’s just she’s got her own viewership um what your me I will give her credit of course in the description everybody knows who Nancy Grace is but I think there were some very good points brought out in this particular broadcast law uh into consideration and
Even giving them a valued weight I mean it’s every family’s nightmare it’s every Prosecutor’s nightmare every investigator public safety’s nightmare that the defense is able to say hey they still are not giving us evidence when in fact you know they’ve turned over all the evidence under Brady uh to the
Defense and they they know what they have it’s right in front of them and you know this I think this is the big push that’s taking place right now and uh we’re just going to you know like always just see how this kind of plays out here
Well bottom line you don’t sign up to be a homicide investigator or a prosecutor to win Mis Congeniality Chris McDonna nobody’s going to go home Crown Miss sweet potato that’s not happening we are going to take the hits and keep on going I mean listen if I paid attention to everything
That said about me or our program on Twitter and Facebook and insta and wherever I’d be hiding under the bed right now just if you don’t have a thick skin you better develop one and quickly guys not only in the last days has the judge denied the defense motion to throw
Out the charge is the FBI has been back at the murder scene some call it the murder house it’s the crime scene the FBI has been back sniffing around and tearing apart sections of the home including all right I want to pause there another nice pause Nancy does some
Good nice pauses like you just said Angel but I just have to read this comment because guys this is where this is why I I have I I have to take breaks from talking about this cas occasionally from taking in information about this case in the form of across
You know the very platform that I have my channel on or any other social media because this makes me go absolutely [ __ ] out of my mind Angel D ask why are there people talking about the defense trying to suggest a secret identical twin allegedly I seriously seriously because of course as
You all know an identical twin would be the only person that would have the same DNA is Brian cerer so when the facts start to close in when the evidence starts to stack up when it starts to tell a story that adds up to a strong
Case you grasp for straws and if I’m one of those straws there is the fictional story of Brian cober possibly having an identical secret twin that’s the only one you got to pick up that’s what you’re picking up some people yanking up carpet and more take a listen
To our friends at crime online FBI agents have entered the King Road home in Moscow Idaho hoping to gain more information as the prosecution prepares for trial according to NBC News the University of Idaho says investigators asked to go back into the home and gather documentation as they construct
Visual and audio exhibits as well as a physical model of the home experts say this will help as the prosecution explain exps where evidence was found and why the placement of said evidence is important families of the victims have worked hard to prevent the King Road structure from being torn down
As was originally planned the family of kayy Gonzalez and the father of Zan kodo said they were grateful the university is waiting until after the trial to demolish the home because it Remains the biggest piece of evidence I want to Circle back to Dr Angela Arnold to renouned psychiatrist joining us about
The why the victim’s families may not want this home torn down but first I want to talk about something that I understand and that is the probative value of this home do we still need the home why do we need the Home what if anything can it prove it’s been combed
Over with a fine tooth comb so why do I care that it’s not torn down well for one reason correct me if I’m wrong joining me Dave Matt crime online.com investigative reporter the house was to be demolished uh but that’s been delayed espe especially since cobber waved his right to a speedy
Trial now this delay I believe has allowed prosecutors and investigators to create a very detailed 3D model of the home and that could potentially spare Jar’s a visit to the crime scene that was left literally quote dripping in blood you know what I would want them at the crime scene but
That’s just me I would want them to see the real thing thing but I would also like Dave M that 3D visual in court for me to use as demonstrative purposes that’s in the law you’ve got demonstrative evidence and you’ve got as I call it real evidence real evidence is
Like fingerprints DNA things taken from the scene demonstrative evidence is evidence you create to demonstrate something to the jury um Dave Mack tell me about why is the FBI sniffing around the King Road address well Nancy they’re building as you mentioned the models okay the 3D
Model and the real issue here is it’s a three-story house on King Road and for some people uh including vanan grod’s mom they just don’t see how one person can accomplish all that happen stabbing to death four people in in that building in a very brief period of time what the FBI
Is doing by building this model they’re going to be able to walk the prosecution will be able to walk the jurors through it one by one and show them how it could be done and was done by one person they believe Ryan cobber they’ll be able to show them with that
Model exactly where he came in where he went the timetable they’ve built inside the house and how he exited they’ll be able to do all that with this 3D model that’s why they’re there that’s going to be some 3D model because you know okay now not everybody is of the same opinion
That that is why the FBI has truly recently gone back into 1122 King Road I would love you to answer the question I just put up on a poll for those of you who are in the live chat and for those of you who are watching the replay
Thanks so much for being here I’ll let you know the results at the end and it ask why do you think that the FBI has recently gone back into 1122 King Road do you think that they are building a virtual 3D model do you think that they
Really lost evidence do you think that they are planting evidence or do you think it’s something else the those are kind of the things that I’ve heard people speculating on I would love to know what you think what the defense is probably gonna do the defense is probably gonna turn
Around and ask to take the jars to the crime scene and so help me I would not be trumped by the defense if anybody was going to demand a visit to the crime scene it would be me the prosecutor and you know why because I would want the
Defense to be able to argue en closing arguments they didn’t want you to see the crime scene we did what were they hiding no no no and no who’s that jumping in Jean is that Jean Jean fer jump in well you have to remember too I don’t
Uh I really don’t believe that this case is going to take place in Leah County and the small community in Moscow Idaho um boisey is 300 miles south and 6 hours on the Mountain Road um Idaho Falls which is maybe the next biggest um is 10 hours uh north of cala
North of moscow’s calan Cy County it’s quite small so I mean there are there are some of those issues as well quite frankly as well as far as the crime scene and getting back up there um and what that actually okay let me ask you a lightning round has the venue been
Changed yet Jean fiser no because they still haven’t set the keys for trial is there a motion to change venue there won’t be one till the kid up the trial so no so let’s burn that bridge when we get there but you’re right if the trial is moved say five
Hours away it would not be expedient to take the jury five hours away to see the crime scene that is why I predict if they do get a motion to change venue it will be moved maybe 3 hours or less away so the jury can go see it in one day and
Return now of course we learned that visiting a crime scene is fraught with danger and reversible error because when you see the crime scene it’s not the same as it was the day of the crimes number one that can be argued on appe pill you don’t know if somebody will be
Standing outside how easy would it be for some jackass as to yell out cobber did it or cober’s innocent or something and that could ruin the whole case and me grounds for a motion to dismiss the case and and get a whole new jury so when you take people to a crime scene
You never know what’s going to happen and dare I remind everybody on the panel when the my colleague Johnny Cochran may he rest in peace took the OJ Simpson jury to the OJ Simpson home and they had completely done it over no more pictures of OJ with busty models around there
Were pictures instead of a Norman Rockwell painting and him with his mother and I think a giant Cross was put up on the wall you don’t know how that scene’s gonna be altered by the time the jury gets there so Dr Angela Arnold joining me as I mentioned earlier a
Renouned psychiatrist you can find her at Angela Arnold mb.com Dr Angie there may be more at play with the victim’s families not wanting the home to be torn down now as I’ve told you before I have never once sought out the spot where my fiance was murdered I don’t want to go
There whenever I think about it sometimes it still gives me a horrible horrible like a migraine headache and uh I I I don’t want to go there I don’t want that in my head with everything else but the significance of this home I I don’t know what it means to the four victims
Families well Nancy right now it it stands as a sort of a shrine to what happened and this is this isn’t over I mean the trial hasn’t even started yet and I imagine what it signifies to the family is this if the if the house is torn down and
Demolished it’s over where this happened is over and and like it never man and the exactly and the man hasn’t even been brought to trial I mean I find it very disturbing that they want to tear the house down and you know what what’s being said right here in anthy
Grace um kind of parlays into a really good point that I think that Sarah jeene just made Hi sarahan how are you doing says what I find strange is I thought it wasn’t a crime scene anymore they had cleared it and were going to bulldoze it so maybe they’re really just doing the
3D thing or looking for anything miss you know that is really good point with all this conjecture that I’ve been hearing different people theorizing about why the FBI is really going back in there now first of all I think if it was anything that was like off or I just
Don’t think they’re doing anything nefarious personally I mean has Law Enforcement done wrong absolutely um I would talk about it I will tell you when I think it I think in this particular moment in time right now in this instance that is not the case it is no
Longer a crime scene so people you know said oh you know they you know they Lo they lost all of this evidence and so they’re going back fact it is no longer a crime scene it is not you know it is not replete and fertile with you know
Crime scene evidence the way it was nearly a year ago um those things you know that people are saying that they messed up on and I’m not saying that they didn’t mess up um or that they lost or that they’re lacking well they’re going back to do that now just kind of
All fudge it together those possibilities are no longer available um and I think that Sarah Jean’s Point whether that or comment whether you were saying that’s what you were saying or not um that’s kind of what I took from it and I think it is a very good point
Um I think that’s also what the guest on Nancy Grace is saying and somebody in um the comment just said oh my gosh you know she asked a question and then she just keeps talking you know that this is part of the um you know the both the
Blessings and the curses of Nancy Grace and you were also observing her her variable uh emotional um uh State yes yes yes I’m not standing by um I am not swearing Nancy Grace is perfect um but here she is but you don’t there also doesn’t need to be a
Jump that goes from let’s not tear the house down to oh we’re going to bring the jury there but I think the house needs to stand as the place where this happened I hear Dr is that Dr Monty Miller no that Chris Chris Chris MCD you’re saying you agree and Dr Angie um
I can’t explain to you why I don’t want the house torn down yet maybe something along the lines of it make it as if it never happened or I mean to you Chris M Donna director Cold Case Foundation I’m going to circle back to Dr Monty Miller and Dr Michelle dpri joining us
Chris it ain’t over until it’s over and I don’t want any destruction of evidence till this thing is over yes and well I think what’s happening right now I want to ask another question of you guys because I mean I personally do agree with Nancy Grace on that with everything you know
That I just said in response to Shar Sarah Jean’s comment what was being talked about and Nancy Grace’s broadcast that you can there are some things you absolutely cannot recreate it is not a crime SC in this kind of like robust and fertile and you know giftgiving sense of you
Know the way it was almost a year ago with DNA that was available to be tested and things you know hadn’t been clean they hadn’t dried they hadn’t this they hadn’t that um there was I can’t even imagine the amount of evidence that was um there to
Be discovered um hopefully in my dreams and prayers properly collected and then properly analyzed and evaluated do I think that that process happened without fail in this case hell no um but you know that is the goal right um you know I do think I I think that there are
Things about that house even without it being an crime scene evidence Rich environment the way it would be in the hours and even days after the crime occurred you know there is something to to be um understood about appreciating you know just kind of the the the spacal situation I mean think
About you know the um the jurors in the Murdock case although we know that their minds may have been tainted now you know I still am going to go I still believe um several of them reporting this I absolutely believe this was their experience I know other jurors had said
Have said similar things when visiting the crime scene and it just makes sense oh my God I was envisioning Mosel as you know the house being so much closer to uh the dog kennels or you know the um you know that barn or the airplane hanger whatever it is be being uh this
Kind of a distance from the dog kennels you know talking about where Paul and Maggie were you know likely positioned when you know horrific things started going down but when I actually saw it I was like whoa they are really far apart or you know to a different jur oh my
Gosh they are so much closer together than I was thinking in my mind because before actually seeing something that um you know provides you know something concrete the minds of two different jurors could add more space and then one takes away space so they might be envisioning something completely
Different from one another than exists in reality we do want our jurors to be as grounded in reality as possible right and I think that it could possibly be determined as the pre-trial phase goes on and the trial begins that there might be some value to experiencing you know that physical
Space that and that opportunity will be lost forever should the house be raised personally think it’s a terrible idea what do y’all think see yeah Angel D really good point it’s like people saw the rental photos and the CGI walk through of 11:22 and then they visit the house outside of course
And they it’s way smaller than it looks online right yeah yeah remediation of the house happened I believe they sent in the remediation cruise on December 30 it was this like December 30th right which happens to be my birthday as well the right it was it
Was like right on the day I think just before we knew he was arrested or right right around that time and then um something happened I’m not clear on how that all actually went down I think at one point I was at one point you probably were but a lot of things have
Been said that aren’t true at this point and I would want to go revisit my facts before saying anything more Tina says I believe they are doing the 3D model and to be able to destroy the house and what they’re hiding D Morton’s statement doesn’t match the layout of the house
Jia I’m very interested in why in your statement here um that’s a really interesting statement and I think you could have something very interesting to say if you said a little more about that Tina would you be willing to tell us a little more about your thoughts there
About um specifically why Dylan mortson statement does not match the layout of the house and I I can kind of speculate about some things you might mean but I don’t want to put words in your mouth yeah please do um please keep it respectful in chat be respectful to one
Another um victims and their families and what the moderator say goes right now Nancy there is why the FBI went back and let’s just talk about a couple of things real fast is one you know they’re doing a laser Recreation right to create this 3D model and that’s
Called a far f a r o That’s the device that they use but what else they’re doing is you just like hey hey hey far explain that please don’t just throw something out out and drop it on us like a bomb and not explain it sure sorry
About that well what this device does is it spins in a room and it can literally go down to an exact uh you know Dimension within an eighth of an inch uh and so it it’ll basically uh mirror everything with inside of that room but the other test that they’re running in
There I would assume is an Acoustics uh test and they’re going to correlate that back to any video that may have been in the neighborhood if there is sound on that video and they’re going to correlate that to the exact spot of where that sound would have originated
Inside of that house so to tear that house down right now uh to doctor’s point and and I know you talked about this early on um I think that would be a very huge mistake uh ultimately uh until the trial is completed and at that point
You know let it be what it what it needs to be I I know the state thinks they’ve gotten everything that they need and the defense has had the same opportunity as the state to to inspect the home but I would ra them wait till till it’s all
Over Dr Monty Miller joining me director forensic DNA expert you can find Dr Monty at forensic DNA experts.com Dr Monty Miller I I believe they’ve gotten all the DNA evidence that they’re going to get uh once you let a lot of people in the okay so before we move on to the
DNA evidence just for those of you who are curious about far light measurement um technique that is said that they might be um utilizing right now to create these 3D images um let’s see here let me find you just a short little something I had it up earlier let me see
If I can find it here I don’t want the article I want the video okay I think I got it here well here let me just show you before I I can’t find the video want but let me just read you a little bit of this I
Think it comes to the video real quick so one of the advantages of this far far lighting measurement um capabilities is forensic analysis and pre-incident planning digitalizing crime scenes and structures with 3D reality captured Solutions quickly capturing detail of a crime scene for thorough investigation reconstruction and legal persecution also understand the
Structural and positional details of a building for safety planning purposes visually ACC I’m sorry accurately visualize any scene or building with Farrow maybe you’re under pressure to capture complete accurate views of a crime scene you investigate or reconstruct or maybe you need to digitize the details of a building in
Order to develop a safety plan for emergencies either way you probably know that 3D reality capture technology will do that job well but you don’t have time to learn how to use it so this is the solution they’re offering um and they tout speed of scanning accuracy of data
Data um reliable post Sal support well that’s something we don’t really care about really um and they talk about its abilities to reconstruct crashes the um many things it can do in crime scene investigation and hey maybe this is why they’re in there right now because it is
Also handy as this sales website tells us in courtroom presentations create Vivid 2D and 3D presentations that make powerful impact in court courtroom presentations based on 3D scanning technology can help a jury understand the facts of a case in a clear and visual way with the help of pharaoh courtroom participants make informed
Decisions um so I mean obviously this is something that this is moving towards um and far as this case goes Fric Cruz had a few challenges and they were limiting their efficiency and quality of their client deliverables meaning their Court presentation they’re spending too much time on the scene
Collecting data um they sometimes found that they miss measurements it’s human they did not have a method for documenting scenes in a way that provides compelling courtroom presentations and they had a problem of maining higher levels of precision and accuracy when they had to copy the point of
Interest um which I think leads to Anna flaxes this point who is retired law enforcement saying that maybe they were trying to create something that was too scale right all right take it back to Nancy homeid is ruined they’ve gone through the home with a fine tooth comb whether
They should demolish the home well I mean just from a crime scene DNA perspective um you wouldn’t want to destroy it because you don’t know if you’re going to need uh that house again you know the defense could raise issues the prosecution could raise issues and
At this point you can always go back and look at it once you demolish it you know you can’t and there’s no real benefit uh to having it destroyed at this point so why not just keep it till the trial’s over guys a lot happening in the case
Right now but I want you to hear more we’ve had the motion to dismiss by the def defense has been denied we have the FBI swarming the crime scene again now listen to this yeah no I I don’t want them to not until after the trial I mean for all
Vious reasons I mean obviously the jurors would maybe want to do a walkth through or you know maybe there’s something they missed I mean obviously yeah I I definitely do not want them to tear down not yet eventually yes but but not until this is all this is all blown over you’re
Hearing xanna kot’s mother Karen Northington agreeing with us don’t tear that house down now her feelings I don’t know if they’re based the evidence or if they’re based in emotions but she wants the house standing let’s move forward listen Brian cober’s defense team now wants to know exactly how DNA was
Collected at the crime scene that prosecutors say places coburger at the scene of the crime the term IGG stands for investigative genetic genealogy and it was this process that was used to collect DNA from another source and then match it to the DNA found on the knife
Sheath that was found on the bed next to the bodies of Kay gavz and Madison Mogan the sheath was found face down partially under Madison mogan’s body and partially under a comforter on the bed the DNA found on the sheath was initially compared to DNA from trash recovered
Outside the coburger family home in Pennsylvania last year using IGG allowed investigators to build a family tree of potential relatives of the suspect once a cheek swab from Brian cober was obtained investigators used a more direct DNA comparison using technology similar to that employed by services like ancestry.com or 23 and me
Okay Dr Monty Miller with us Fame DNA expert Dr Monty explain and also if you could give us uh dummy down for me I’m just a trial lawyer you’re the scientist explain IGG and what are they talking about so what happens is in in criminal investigations and with criminal DNA
Right before we go into the murky world of IG I do want to address the footprint because I see you’re all talking about chat and I think this is is it’s it’s worth discussing um so you know kind of I picked up the conversation starting at um let’s see Gordon welcome Gordon how
Are you doing says uh come on think about it footprint cleaned outside D Morton’s room who did that some of their people kind of responded I was just noticing um kind of his comments because they were things I wanted to respond to and have a conversation about and gor
Just says that’s my understanding that the footprint was cleaned and that is the understanding of a lot of people and I mean that it it and it is in the realm of all possibilities that that is what happened um let’s see uh you know then Cecil said Gordon
Lon doesn’t imply that it’s um intentional cleaning has happened so you know here’s the thing with the footprint so the footprint is mentioned in the probable cause affidavit it is um problematic for a number of reasons of course you know I mean we could probably you know brainstorm a list of them right
Here and now it is one footprint it is not a strong footprint it was not found upon the first look it had they had to use um God what the hell is that called the I mean uh what whatever it is chemicals to actually find it it wasn’t
Like a standout footprint you would imagine in a scene like that with how it has been described To Us by um First Responders and others that it was a it was very it was a blood soaked scene um you know there questions like how is there not uh victim’s blood outside the
Home how did the uh salant get away without tracking all over the place and why in God’s name would there be a footprint and what or a footprint of interest if it wasn’t like very bloody like a lot of the scene was um from our reasonable understanding well we don’t
Know that that footprint was laid there that evening and I think I talked about this last time we did a live stream on this case and you know just my thoughts on it you know like being realistic just upon thinking about it very casually you
Know this is a house where a lot of people lived they were college students a lot of them you know had a lot of energy they were very athletic um you know they were running around they were drinking University of Idaho happens is it University of Idaho or Washington I
Think it’s Idaho happens to be a college that is known for students drinking too much and falling off of balconies to their horrific like ungodly unfortunate God Rest their souls demise so you know like things happen all right so there’s also a lot of people that say you know
There was recreational drug use I’m sorry YouTube I just I can’t baby talk anymore but like that’s what is said you know going on in that drug house I certainly do not think that there was like you know cartel connections and these major profiting outfits happening that were headquartered in that house
But I’m certainly not saying that I do not think that that was going on in that house well you know we know from watching Pulp Fiction and of course we don’t know from any reason other than watching pul fiction if you snore a substance you might get a bloody nose um
Women menstrate people bleed um you know you might be you know they you know they like to cook there you know you might be slight there’s a video where Maddie is slicing she’s making soft Peppers someone might be slicing the pepper and they might slice there finger and you know there are other
Reasons why there would be a footprint found in that house even a footprint with blood on it right um so I I do think that’s all that we know about that footprint there is no guarantee that that footprint is from that night um I think it’s talked about a lot because it
Was really one of the only traces of the as salent other than a microscopic Speck of DNA that was located on the button snap of the knife sheath partially located underneath Madison mogan’s body and partially underneath the comforter on the bed upon which Madison mogan’s body and
Kayy um cons solas’s bodies were found God Rest their souls um I think that’s what we know about that footprint guys um I’ve given a lot decent amount of research given a lot of thought I’ve listened to what others have said I really think that is all that we know um
Jody says um her shot phase probably wasn’t three seconds long the PCA doesn’t say you know I can tell you from being having a background psychology being a behavioral therapist and special educator knowing something about the condition that I believe she was referring to as being in a frozen shock
Phase um I put a video out talking about humans the five different responses we call them the five FS they all just happen to have like a a little analogy that starts with that has a word related to it that starts with f freeze flop Fain fight and flight um this is
Something that is determined not by your conscious mind but by your parasympathetic nervous system that is not run by your conscious mind it is a survival mechanism that is intentionally um designed by our brilliantly intelligent designer to not listen to the conscious mind because sometimes our cerebral
Thinking Minds do not tell us to do the correct thing if we are talking about a matter of life or death in fact often times they do not weird right um so it is perfectly feasible that she went into any of those five states none of them
Being her choice none of them would be your choice I truly believe that unless you were a highly trained first responder or member of the military or something like that maybe someone like I don’t know anaphylaxis could handle you know some kind of fear like that because she is well Tred and
Experienced um we thank her for that service that she has given to to society um but most people aren’t going to be able to make decisions when they are faced with something that is truly of shocking fear value um that being said there is no prescribed duration that that shock
Phase is going to last for however and I have done you know um American Psychological Journal level research on this after this case making sure that I was knew what I was talking about um being in that state of shock for eight hours is not how it goes um even talking
In time in terms of hours um is not highly documented okay so that’s what I can say about that is typically used in court uh they use one kind of technology to read the DNA a completely different kind of you know technology is used for um the
Ancestry the IGG top type DNA and so what they did was they took the DNA and they ran it for ancestry uh in order to um you know develop the suspects and they used that to identify coburger as one of the suspects then they collected TR from the house to connect it to
Cober’s father and they could tell from that that the DNA uh at that point when they identified that it was probably a son of the father they were able to get DNA from cerer himself compare it to the DNA uh by traditional uh genetic forensic means and they were able to
Identify him that way so the genetic genealogy the IGG stuff was used to find him that’s not what was used to identify him as the person in the house um but the same DNA was used but it was used first for genetic genealogy to find him
And then it was run a separate way a different time by different technology to identify him as the source of that DNA at this juncture the state is claiming they’re not going to use IG that type of DNA process at trial but the reality is if the questions are asked on cross it
Will come into play to Dr Michelle Dupri joining us a forensic pathologist medical examiner former detective in Lexington County author of money mischief and murder The murdog Saga the rest of the story and and she literally wrote the book homicide investigation Field Guide Dr Dupri weigh
In Nancy you know I I think I understand it sort of from from both sides but keeping the house especially right now is so important because things could have been missed and I think that they need to go back and be able to I would want the jury there I’m totally with you
I would want the jury to see this but if you’re the defense attorney I guess you wouldn’t um I don’t know I think the defense may be able to argue all sorts of things once the jury gets in that home big question is the jury going to
See the home a lot of rulings going to impact this case are happening right now listen the DNA matching Brian cobber to the knife sheet could be the prosecution’s strongest piece of evidence tying coburger to the murders ktbb reports cober’s lawyers claimed they need the information about the DNA
Collection to help prepare their defense but the prosecution says they did not use IGG to obtain any warrants and they are concerned about innocent relatives identities being made public Judge John judge said he will consider the interest of the defense and the prosecution as he reviews all of the IGG information the
State and the FBI have and then he will decide what can be disclose now listen the pro this and and I have mixed feelings about this but this is this is something that you know I have been able to follow the the chronological line of what what the
Defense and the state have said it is checked out and I think that this um line of reasoning like in their defense kind of is very logical the so the creators or I mean okay so IGG is very upand cominging um field of forensic science
And study right I think we can all agree on that there are not a lot of laws laid down about it right now that is why you know I I think it’s it’s easier for people to get a little sneaky with it or step out of bounds with it or maybe it’s
Not intentional um there’s there is not a lot of there’s not a lot of road signs for those practicing investigative genetic genealogy right now as far as you know you have crossed a legal threshold okay I mean there’s some not nearly as much as other forensic investigative Technologies and
Methods so all along the state has said well listen you know defense I know that you’re asking these questions of us you want you know these profiles that were developed that and we have learned that it was by FBI that led us ultimately to find Brian cober’s father’s DNA
Sample in the trash and Link it to the suspect that allowed us to take the bual swab from coburger that was the 5.37 acan percent chance greater chance it was him than any other human being That Ever Walked the face of the Earth that huge probability number um theyve said all along that
They did not I’m sorry let’s start with with what I first said the people who are the founders so to speak that is my term of investigative genetic genealogy say that investigative gen genealogy is a tip it is an investigative step it is an investigative technique it should by
No means be the be all and all in fact um you know it’s been said by several of the most renowned Professionals in that upand cominging field that they don’t even feel comfortable as having the genetic investigative genealogy results being part of a probable cause affidavit um and I believe them um you
Know the defense I’m sorry the state and the prosecution have said all along that we used IGG in just that way is the way that the creators or the founders so to speak again my terminology have touted that it should be used as an investigative tool as a step as a way of
Generating leads and you know possibly eliminating some no-go Avenues um we did not use it as a basis for the PCA we did not even present those findings to the grand jury that was impanel before the pre-trial hearing could take place that ultimately indicted Brian coburger what personally
Think um by using the proper standard in my opinion after reading through boring parts of the Idaho law um so I I just I don’t see a problem with all of that I initially felt personally that the defense was right for wanting to see how those profiles
Were created I still think that they should be able to see that but at the end of the day it truly is going to be a move point because it was an investigative tool that they used used to generate a lead as the founders so to
Speak of IGG have said it should be used there is no foul there in my opinion um if somebody thinks differently go ahead and put in chat I will try to catch it and I’d be happy to speak your opinion this is what’s happening um the state has used IGG
Science to Nar narrow down potential suspects a wellestablished bule or Buckle School swab was used to positively identify Brian cobber coburger was already ident I’m sorry to break this up again but I have to before this Angel says lots of IG picks of D mortson wearing Vans Lon Vans
Print outside the second bedroom where she said she stood as a witness oh yeah it could have been her shoe so you’re making the right Point dude kids of people of that age group I work with them on the other side of the country like they all wear Vans and particularly
At the University of Oto you can see so many pictures of so many students wearing Vans have a pair of Vans just sitting there on the floor in the background fans is just a very very very very popular brand of shoe all with that all of them having a similar looking
Soul that could have left that print that may or may not have been left on the evening question or not I I personally think we’re making too much of a deal out of the late and footprint I could be wrong about that it’s just my sense identified by his
Car isn’t that correct Dave Mack so the state could have gone forward without the IGG test at all based on the car being probable cause right they were able to track yes that you’re absolutely right Nancy the they had other means of going about this which is what they’re
Pointing out now saying that this IGG stuff is irrelevant it’s not part of our case it was just a tool but they had other ways of identifying and as you mentioned the car it is the perfect you know it actually puts him where he needed to be in terms of what
Prosecution is looking at so you’re dead on right they had other ways of going after cobber besides the IGG they’re just using all the tools in the toolbox guys the case is culminating the case is rapidly moving toward trial when will the trial date be we all know that
Once the death penalty is announced then the delay will be even longer take a listen to our friends at crime online the parents of Kayla gonz recently spoke out about the death penalty for the murder of their daughter and three others Steve Gonzalez said they wanted the death penalty rather than a life
Sentence and he mentioned how BT DK dentist raater gets special treatment in prison because he’s smart he writes papers for other inmates but a death penalty sentence would put the killer in a Cell 23 hours a day waiting regardless of how long it takes before there is an
Execution in the midst of all of this one of the victim’s mother has been forced into the position of defending her daughter’s reputation how is abuse beautiful young girl who was murdered half asleep or fully asleep somehow become the target of derision and false rumors listen to carara Northington
Defending her daughter I think there’s a lot of rumors going around that um she was a drug dealer or um this is somehow like a cartel hit because she owed the cartel money um that’s just not true she she wasn’t a drug dealer was going to school she she had a
Job she was working she was she was doing all the right things you know she wasn’t she wasn’t on drugs or or dealing drugs um she she did like to party she was in college she drank with her friends in party but but it wasn’t anything like drug dealing or anything
Like that so I think I think those rumors just really those those been those are what I would say have have wronged her you know and I just have to say here because I I do have some like deeper connection to people that actually knew these victims I stand
By Karen Northington completely in her statement there and um you know when this first all happened and people were bringing up you know drug connection suspicions and I certainly looked into it and I’ve heard stories and I’ve told stories and I don’t tell those stories that I’ve learned from people that
Actually knew the victims because they have been blown out of proportion and in a couple of cases I’m using my channel as the source which is false um exactly like Cara Northington mother of xan canal said she was in college she had fun lots of people that age are drinking they’re experimenting
With things it doesn’t like that’s what’s up anything beyond that from the account of everybody that I have spoken to personally or heard talking about out you know any of these victims on you know any any of the except for you know two people that spoke out who
We who were proven to be con artist catfish Liars promoted by a couple channels in particularly particular you might know what I’m talking about other than those people um with their very clear motives for lying everybody has said the same thing um and I I just do
Want to say that is The Stance of the channel that we find no connection between any of the victims being drug dealers or Cel activity or anything of the sort I think any kind of conjecture in my opinion honestly at this point is a waste of time if you think differently
I do respect your opinion but I am going to tell you that I feel I feel as the channel creator I feel pretty strongly in that so I’m not willing to go very far down any road that implies you know against what K Northington is thing here I don’t understand that why Crime
Victims as young and innocent as these four are are being dragged through the mud Dr Angel Arnold to top it all off here you hear the parents of these victims having to defend the reputations of their children who who are these trolls attacking the victims it’s hideous it’s absolutely hideous Nancy I
I believe that people start rumors for a lot of different reasons and one of the reasons is so that they can feel like well if I have never done that if I have never participated in that kind of activity or if my children don’t do that then they’re less likely to be murdered
So there’s a reason why she was murdered and I’m going to tell you from a psychological perspective this person speaking here is spot on this is one of the great defense mechanisms that our mind has readily available to protect us from the possibility of the horrors that happened to these victims and it’s
Something that your psyche employs all the time on you know a a a scale that ranges without you knowing it we are always protecting ourselves psychologically as tough as we think we are mentally I’m telling you it is a proven tried and true fact in Psychology it’s happening all the time
That it’s just it’s the most hideous thing in the world to all of a sudden create a story about a victim girl is being was murdered because she’s part of the cartel course had just turned 20 and she’s what connected to a Colombian drug lord it’s
Insane right and you know Nancy okay and so what if she par kids are supposed to party when they’re in college and you’re supposed to have a good time and so this girl gets slaughtered and now people are going to say ugly things about her why weren’t they saying ugly things about her
Previous to them if she was such a hideous person I mean Chris McDonna you Pro you have investigated so many homicide cases this is straight out of the defense Playbook attack the victim don’t look at my client look at the victim they’re horrible and you could
Not find any more beautiful and pre ious college students than these for so what she had a couple of drinks nobody cares she was slaughtered in her sleep where is this coming from and isn’t it true you see it in practically every homicide case yeah the but I think we’re at a a
Different point here Nancy I mean and it the civility of what’s taking place here in in our society this is just an example of it this poor mother when we hear her heartfelt pleas about defending the reputation of you know her daughter what’s her crime her crime is she went
To bed that night and she was in her bedroom and yet this poor mother and I know that feeling I know the depth of that feeling you know to you Jane fiser uh veteran trial lawyer that always happens is it right right no it’s horribly wrong and it always happens um blaming the
Victim somehow yeah I mean it happens all the time but I think in this case it has really um I mean it is it’s really bad I mean some of the things that have been written and said um about the victims in this case um you know idea even the
Surviving victims I mean it’s not it’s one thing that they’re they’re they’re attacking the victims but they’re also really attacking the surviving victims and coming up with these wild wild stories and and I think that comment about the lack of Civility really does show a sad a really sad state of where
We are right now in our in our in our nation quite frankly as long as I can remember uh as far back as I can recall trying cases the victims were always attacked I don’t think it’s anything new it’s always happen and it’s always been horrible listen to more of zanna’s
Mother now in the position of having to defend her murdered daughter listen well Zanna Zanna was an amazing girl she was just she was really funny she was fun to be around she always made sure everybody around her was having fun um she was just very happy very happy go-lucky
Person she loved her friends loved her family very much um she’s very dedicated to everything she did she was just an amazing person I hate I hate that the mother is in this position where she feels like she has to defend her murdered daughter’s reputation some world class
A-hole is spreading false rumors about Zanna and the other victims and the survivors but zanna’s mother has come up with with a very unique theory listen to me it it seems like more than one person did this in such a short amount of time the time frame that they’re giving um
There’s just no way that one person could have done it um so I think that if if he is responsible if he is um that he had help so try to figure out who would that other person be to Dr Monty Miller this is why the DNA is so important no other
Identifiable person’s DNA is at the scene other than KOB barkers well I did find some DNA from some other people but they weren’t able to identify it um you know that was a house that other people were in it wasn’t isolated with just the the residents in there so it’s natural that
You would find DNA from other people that that were in that house um but they weren’t able to identify it so they wouldn’t be able to to know whether or not some of the other DNA was attached to the crime or whether it was just attached to somebody visiting that’s
Different with the knife sheath where that was clearly something that that was probably a part of the crime and had the DNA from whoever brought that knife there uh the other thing is that I wanted to bring up about the DNA is you know with the defense wanting the you
Know DNA from the ancestry uh testing uh part of what they may be looking for too is is did they develop any other suspects other than Brian coburger so they want to know you know do we have any any value in that information for us to find somebody else
Rather than our client so um there’s a lot going on with the DNA here more than than you would think and they certainly are going to try to identify any of the DNA that they found in that house but they don’t necessarily have a connection
To the crime with any of the other DNA exactly where the other DNA was found I believe uh is nowhere near the dead bodies but we’ll see and Dr Michelle Dupri a forensic pathologist and expert isn’t it true that the wounds on the victim’s bodies indicate one type of
Weapon yes Nancy that is true um and we can often tell that of course by the by the wounds themselves how do you do that with knife wounds this is very critical because it’s right to question the evidence Z’s mother’s correct you got to test every piece of evidence see what it
Proves or disproves and she should Wonder was there more than one person as far as I can evaluate the evidence and analyze it it seems like there’s one person but you have to test the evidence so what do the wounds wounds prove if anything well we measure them we measure
The wounds and then we we can actually make a cast or a mold of the wounds many times and then we can compare that to a cast made from the actual weapon itself and they’re similar or um similar enough that we can say that that is the same
Weapon Justice moves forward as we wait for the trial of Brian cobber goodbye friend guys thank you for watching crime online with Nancy Grace here on YouTube to get the very latest subscribe to Crime online here all right guys just give me one second here I was just looking for a certain Video all right all right that’s that’s cool okay ah so so you know that is all of the talk about the FBI going back into the house and um I am also working on just going over the history of um the FBI’s role in this investigation from the start and I I
Actually think it kind of paints an interesting picture um let me see you guys have to St here in chat and welcome to everybody who’s coming welcome everybody who’s watching the replay so glad you are here with us oh hey thank oh thank you very much yes the channel reached 40,000 subscribers
And thank you guys so much for being a part of it I’m honored and I appreciate y’all so very much oh hey dizzy Lizzy thanks for becoming a new member I appreciate you and um I’m really sorry to hear about you know what’s happened to you that sounds horribly traumatic
And I’m I’m glad you’re okay DC Prime Time thank you so much for the Super Chat thank you so much sweetheart thank you for your support always she says 40K wow congratulations wat the obsession thank you and you’ve been here since like the beginning of it thank you so
Much and Angel D member for two months thank you so much hey I appreciate I appreciate every single one of you guys thank you so much um I know I just can’t even believe can’t believe like 40,000 subscribers that’s awesome remember when I started this Channel and I was like I just want
To learn how to do video editing and this Watts case I had been working on some aspects of it for um master’s degree program I was finishing and want to talk about it I know thank you DC it was a while I just said to my son I said oh you know
Sometime I think in the last week or something when I was working or sleeping because that’s all I was doing I hit 40,000 he was like oh cool H hi Karen G I’m so glad you’re here um Karen G says as a journalism major I want you to all know that you
Should not trust this stuff they keep putting out all the time because it’s not about truth and it’s about money I think that’s a really great Point what exactly are you talking about my friend and again I’m so glad you’re here um trying to go back to what you’re saying
Okay the fact is the media is a news hole and the speculation never end until it’s closed and even after might not end great Point hopefully they prove things so it’s not questioned so much like the Watts case a freaking Moon yeah thank you Karen yeah and Karen G makes another
Great Point says Hey guys hen bunny did a lot of damage breaking into thority house houses and people’s homes and killed multiple people all by himself I agree and it is my opinion based on the evidence and where the evidence is pointing us guys you know I I’m willing
To listen to your opinion you’re welcome here regardless of your opinion but I am going to tell you that this channel is a fact-based channel we work really hard to you know walk that fine line straight a straight fine line I think I just mixed analogies we just
Want to keep the facts facts here and when it’s conjecture one speculation and that’s fine try to let you know that’s what it is um this Channel’s Mission as well is kind of twofold it is to stand by Justice for the victims and greater peace for the
Families um and also to study the Dynamics of human behavior because that is my jam um through this you know story of True Crime that is told again and again in a number of different ways in our society because people are fascinated by it including myself and
Probably a lot of you here for reasons that I’ve talked about before the wise of why we are attracted to this genre um and you know that’s just what we do here um but we will always remain fact-based that’s why I ask you know if people are
Stating things as fact and they seem a little you know off the wall to myself or moderators you know we just ask that you please site the source and you know we can have a conversation about it but if there is no Source then there is no
Source and it then it’s just speculation and that’s okay but we need to call it what it is is Um um what I don’t I’m not sure what that Sophie’s mom I was just reading your comment but I’m not sure again I don’t want to even it’s about victim family I don’t even want to post pin that and without knowing what that’s about but thank you for being
Here um oh thanks guys I hey I really appreciate appreciate it thank you so much thank you for being part of the channel you guys are all amazing and you you’re it you are it um see Aries Park would you like to why why do you think Brian cerg can’t
Possibly do it all by himself I personally think he can and all the people that I’ve talked to um you know just in my personal life are in law enforcement I work with a lot of them I know a lot of them I some of them a family um
I think across the board they’ve said it’s POS they they they believe it’s possible um whoops hold up just a minute here sorry sorry about that my bad bad whoops my fault um you know and those law enforcement professionals having varying degrees of you know knowing varing degrees of information about the
Case um I think every single one of them has said that they yeah they do believe that that is possible it’s possible that he committed or one person has committed this crime on his own and hey Joan thank you so much thanks for the Super Chat congratulations you deserve all and so
Do you and thank you for being here from the beginning too Joan I really appreciate you thank you so much you guys are the bomb thank you you um cleaning up is going to Tom van says the more people involves the more people involves involved increases the chance of bloody
Footprint and yet none and cleaning up isn’t going to fool the luminol or amino black great Point Tom absolutely that’s right that’s right and you know know Tina I’m not sure what you’re talking about here but just makes a great point in general just speculation we have no idea what will be
Unleashed in court and we truly have no idea because as I’ve shared with you I personally think based on what I know now and I could be wrong about this I could change my mind but I don’t think I’m going to just because of my beliefs
On um our our freedoms and Liberties I think that the gag order is too strict too broad um and for that reason we we truly have have a lot of we don’t know what’s going to be Unleashed in cor great Point hey Le thanks so much she
Says love your channel thank you very much um BK I believe is innocent I do not believe everything was a coincidence would you like to say more about that I’d like to hear it thank you for being here Leila we all part of these social experiment as you all know she’s an
Actual genius well GE thank you I think Angel um well Sarah says one person would be covered in blood batter and there would be a Blood Trail in my opinion and thank you for saying it my opinion and and I respect your opinion Sarah and I’m glad you’re here
Um but that is your opinion funny because someone I work with um without giving too much information about exactly where I work I said to him he’s a retired um um law enforcement person and I said oh when you do your when you have your
Um you know the part of your course on blood splatter which is coming up real soon um that he teaches with somebody else I said let me know I’m I want to come in for that because I want to learn more about how all of that is um figured
Out so I’m like really excited for that um if he’ll let me bring any of it in to put on the channel I would love to do that but I was just thinking about how I’m going to ask him that today I was thinking about that today I’m not
Going to ask him today but maybe maybe I’ll figure out a way um interesting U Mike Applegate who I I trust is that usually don’t prove me wrong says the mass media has outsourced their content creation to PR firms they create content for free or cheap and push particular narrative the PR’s
Firm’s payment is publishing their content propaganda or PR I believe it’s something like that and thank you for that splatter cannot be predicted or controlled well I’ll let you know after I take the course with my my my friends who are teaching it who are both highly qualified to teach
It Karen G says mike Applegate thank you for adding to the discussion of the mainstream Medias and involvement thank you both I appreciate both of You um well interesting Sarah if a crime has happened to you do you call the police or do you call a friend I know which I would do I told a story and I’m just going to brush over it that um when I was in law school I it was
Early in the morning there was this perfect set of circumstances I had broken my key in the door the night before I was waiting for um it was in I went to law school actually in new Yark New Jersey I didn’t live there but it
Was in you you wanted to lock your door you know um and I was waiting for you know like the apartment complex fix the guy to come around to you know fix the lock provide me a new key and whatever so it’s very early in the morning getting ready and a downstairs neighbor
Breaks in my door and assaults me all right so charges were pressed it was long and it was a horrible event and I don’t want to start to get into it too much now because if I get into it a little bit I I just find that I have to tell
More details or it feels incomplete somehow I don’t know um but what I want to share with you is um that what do I want to share with you my gosh oh I was crucified on the stand by the defense attorney because I called my boyfriend before I called um
Before I called the police I was able to because I had just watched this Oprah Winfrey about I had taken some like you know martial arts classes in the past I don’t know if it would have kicked in um when I needed to but I did know that I just watched an
Oppr Winfree about self-defense and I just remembered some things that the person said and that she said and I they were in my mind at the moment and I was able to get the attacker off of me I was able to free myself I was able to get
Outside and like you know all kinds of disheveled without going into detail and I had a phone and I just I want I called my boyfriend I may have called my mom after that before calling law enforcement I think my mom would know I don’t remember to be honest but um I was
I was I was harshly attacked for that but I know I did and I did it honestly um was I called I was scared and I called I did I didn’t want to see a cop I wanted to see my boyfriend I wanted to see my mom you know so interesting question always
Sarah okay guys well I am going to get wrapping up but I am definitely going to be doing another let’s see what’s it Tuesday I’m GNA definitely do a live stream on Friday and I want to do one on Thursday or Saturday because I still owe
You that watts and sharing I was going to do around Halloween sharing my story of the what I believe was paranormal experience and some other things and I have a couple guests that are going to come on for that um I just haven’t been able to do it yet because of my work
Schedule and some family responsibilities definitely want to do that this week I have some time coming up by Friday off and then I’m also going to do a live stream either Thursday night or Saturday don’t know which one for sure definitely for 100% sure so you have two more live streams from the
Channel to look forward to this week hope you do look forward to them I’m so happy you guys were here thank you moderators you’re amazing thank you so much members thank you subscribers and if you’re just checking us out maybe you want to click subscribe come back hang
Out with us again and I’m sure we’d like to have you come back um and yeah I just appreciate you all so very much please be safe lock your doors and be good to yourself because life is hard and I know that you deserve it because you deserve it for
Sure please do hit like on the way out I greatly appreciate it there are more answers than you know [Applause] [Applause] All Four students found each had multiple stab wounds some had defensive wounds showing they fought with the attacker and there was no sexual assault County coroner Kathy mbot is describing the murders as personal
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