On today’s episode of Mile higher we’re going to be talking about hazing and hazing deaths in fraternities we’ve got another fraternity is Accused tonight of bringing shame to its campus investigators say that Marquis broad committed suicide at his home in New York new development in the alleged hazing death of Penn State student
Timothy Piazza surveillance video that authorities say was once destroyed now recovered by the FBI it’s horrifying to hear the things that these guys put their brothers through some of these people are so desperate for that companionship that they’re willing to do anything six months of things like
Having a gun pointed in someone’s head having to drink and fill two garbage pails of vomit what were these fraternity brothers so scared of it doesn’t seem like they get in trouble anyway for none of them to have done something sooner if they did they could have possibly saved his life foreign
Hey what’s up everybody welcome back to mile higher podcast episode 256 and today we are going to be diving into a topic that I find highly interesting and important to discuss and very passionate about this issue we’re going to be talking about hazing and hazing deaths in fraternities highly
Disturbing it’s would be the words I’d use shocking disgusting disturbing and I have covered in the past there are so many instances of this happening I have also covered um Gordy Bailey out of Cu and his death was just horrific um that story in particular there’s so
Many out there that we had to narrow it down to one University we’re going to be focusing on Penn State fraternities and a few people who have died due to hazing um now this is a topic that has always been like I said interesting to me and I’ve been passionate about because I
Experienced Greek life first and that’s right Janelle and I were in a sorority that’s right baby a long time ago and we were in a much more low-key version of Greek life because we went to a really small school so we didn’t experience the like extremes of it all but we saw our
Fair share um it’s a very how do I even word it problematic system and very Antiquated too very Antiquated very sexist a lot of issues there I was not in Greek life in case you’re wondering I was I was staying as far away from it as I could and I even tried
Very very hard to convince Kendall not to join Greek life well you know I was 17 and I didn’t know anyone at the school that I was going to I didn’t play any sports or really have any skills to offer a club so and you didn’t even live
On campus very long either yeah no I didn’t yeah I had to give her a restraining order against my roommate and moved off campus that’s besides the point I wanted to meet some friends so that was my main reason for doing it I actually was just planning on rushing
Originally to meet people within rush I just thought it’d be a fun thing to do and then I got kind of roped into it and overall my experience was pretty good there were definitely some things I have several complaints and several things they look back on now and I’m just pretty horrified by
Um I’ve done I did a video on it right just about my experience and all the things like the pros and cons yeah that was a long time ago it was it was a long time ago I did that um but yeah there were several things
That I noted within just my own sorority that were uh concerning and for the most part I didn’t experience though any hazing I mean really at all um our sorority was so strict about hazing and most sororities at least the ones in Colorado I don’t know maybe
The bigger schools and more schools in the South it’s a little more rampant but um I would expect that the larger the the chapter is the more chances there would be for that to go on you know what I mean probably in a larger scenario where there’s probably less over because who’s who’s
Can you just explain like what’s the governing body within a sorority or a fraternity like there’s a hierarchy to it and but is there actually like somebody looking over everybody to make sure everybody behaves like what stops somebody from amazing but they’re not there very often so what would stop them
Is if they were reported and they got brought up to a council we had something called panhellenic that oversaw all the stories there’s tons of different types of stories there’s social sororities um there’s uh like academic sororities I guess you could call them and then there’s different um councils like Kendall had mentioned
There’s National panhellenic Council and that’s kind of like an umbrella of you know tons of different organizations within it um and so like each I guess campus has multiple or sororities that are by panhellenic Council there’s Multicultural sororities there’s social sororities that are like you know the typical thing that you
Think of when you’re when you think of Greek life there’s co-ed there’s co-ed there’s uh academic sororities which I was a part of um and the regular Greek life one too um so they all kind of have like their own like governing situation yeah but
It’s not the thing about it though is I don’t think people realize it’s not necessarily you know there’s not oversight by the school that these chapters are affiliated with is that right or it just no there is it depends on if you’re Affiliated or disaffiliated a lot of
These you know fraternities for the most part function on campus but they’re not affiliated with the school and they prefer it that way because they’ve been kicked off for some reason but then that actually gives them more freedom to do whatever the [ __ ] they want and I believe that’s more so with fraternities
Yes sensories I don’t I could be wrong I know that in the school Kendall and I went to there were no sororities that were not affiliated um and I’m not sure if that’s allowed because I know that uh sorority panhellenic is different than fraternity I think now I’m kind of
Getting yeah we weren’t like care we didn’t care enough about it to really understand all of this we were purely in it to make friends yeah and again neither of us experienced any form of hazing and they were so strict about hazing that it got to the point where we
Weren’t even allowed to call people that joined we used to call them babies when I first joined I was called a baby and then by the time I was a senior we weren’t even allowed to call new members anything different we were all the same we weren’t there used to be a thing
Where oh the seniors get to sit on the couches by the time I was a senior they’re like that Rule’s done sit on the floor so there was no there was no hazing in the sorority system where we went it definitely could exist in other schools but when it comes to
Fraternities whole different story it is wildly different um and there are just I mean it’s just flat out sexist too the rules for fraternities are so different yeah than sororities like the biggest one that I can think of is that fraternities are allowed to hold parties with alcohol in
Their fraternity houses women cannot even have alcohol on premise let alone have a party so there were there’s tons of examples like that of how the whole system is just incredibly sexist what bothered me about me the most about my sorority about sororities in general is the exclusivity having to you know
People you know there’s recruitment there’s Rush a bunch of people come through and you have to like judge them and people give a ring because not everybody can join if you’re rushed you’re not guaranteed to join them which I will say and I’m not trying to like
Defend I think there’s a a lot of problems with the recruitment process but that is how it is with sports teams with clubs with pretty much anything that’s organized well it wouldn’t be like a exclusive Club anymore if everybody joined right well it would take away with a varsity soccer team for
Example you’re judged on your skills and the players and your academics in Greek life oftentimes you’re judged I’ve not everyone we knew a lot of people that were there to get good people in our houses but there were about half of the members in our sorority that were
Focused mainly on looks and who’s gonna make us look like the hottest girls on campus and that was uh really disturbing to me who’s got the Instagram followers that’s right well I’m sure that’s the thing now too they’re probably looking at your social media I mean it was a
Different world when we I rushed in 2011. now in 1912 you know when I rushed um and the boys are similar too right like they I’m sure their process is even more [ __ ] up as far as what they’re judging the guys on and also like what
Do you bring what are you gonna do for us type of thing just so people are aware um I know I kind of talked about how there’s different like sections the National panhellenic Conference NPC is what Kendall and I were a part of that it consists of 26 women’s sororities
Throughout the U.S and Canada and ours was one of them and I think that when you think of like a traditional sorority that’s kind of the picture that comes to mind but like I said there’s tons of different types of sororities that don’t fall under their umbrella and whatever so
Greek life is huge yes massive in the US and Canada I don’t know if there’s like Greek life in other countries I don’t know I’m not actually sure actually I remember people commenting about it that there wasn’t UK universities I don’t think so I don’t
Think so and a lot of them have like the they’ve seen House Bunny or um neighbors and that’s their idea which there’s a lot of a lot of it’s very inaccurate but a lot of it’s kind of spot on I’d say neighbors is closer yeah House Bunny is pretty like out there but
Um yeah that’s so there’s 26 sororities in the country as far under NPC NPC yeah um so that’s one thing that people don’t always understand so if there’s a alpha fee for example everywhere that there’s an alpha fee they are all under the same they’re different chapters of the same sorority
So they technically fall under the same rules and standards they have the same secrets and guidelines and exactly that’s the big thing is the secrets there’s a lot of secrecy and once you’re a member you’re including on these secrets and they were so disappointing nothing juicy not a damn thing
That’s a shame I’d want my money back I mean I almost did too I was like I feel like this is some boy scout you know I might as well be in Boy Scouts it was like there’s this they told us all the secrets one day and I was like that was it
So yeah overall I met some really good friends some I’ve lost touch with pretty much everyone I’ve like maybe well one Sydney was in our sorority and I you know she was worth she was worth it all because she’s amazing well Janelle is my cousin so oh but that did
Bring us closer I feel like it did definitely because so we just went through college together but like most of my sisters not anymore so also the benefit is if our daughter wanted to rush for the same sorority she would be considered a legacy but she’s not doing that hell no
My daughter’s gonna scoff at that you watch she’s gonna be like I’m on the rugby team baby I’m blasting dudes over on the Rugby field well yeah it’s an interesting culture like I said we went to super super small girl or uh college so most
Of the people in it were very chill and low-key and it wasn’t well if it was like I remember uh in August when remember like Rush talk was huge on Tick Tock oh right recently yeah recently like last year um and they would talk about all the
Things they had to have and all the money that they have to spend even just before joining and how competitive it was and how intense it was and yeah like if it was like that where I went to school I would not have joined same at
All like I could give two [ __ ] about any of that so I think when a lot of people find out that Kendall and I were in a story they’re like what yeah it was so very very different it was small it was kind of a remote area and I mean I
Joined because in high school I had never been a part of a club or organization or sports or anything and um you know I had some friends in high school but a lot of them they ended up really not being great friends to me and I had always been longing for that close
Group of friends I don’t have any sisters um and I wanted a sense of belonging and I’m not the best at making friends on my own if I had just gone to a school where I didn’t know anyone like I knew it would be hard for me so
That’s why I joined and like I said I don’t have any regrets personally and that’s really why they try to how they try to pull you into because so many people are coming from high school and you’ve broken friendships or you’re missing your friends or you’re out of
State yeah that was my thing too is I had like I’d had friendships in high school but I’d really grown apart from them and I didn’t have many friends yeah senior year so going into college I wanted to like have this whole group of friends and they just
Preach you the world and these are gonna be your sisters for life and they are going to always be there for you and stand by you no matter what and and you’ll have so many connections yes that’s what they feel they’ll open doors that you didn’t even know existed once
And in some cases people do get set up with jobs and stuff and it never depends on where you’re at and stuff yeah but again I was I was not into it I almost broke up with her over this always well in my mind I was I was if I was like
This could go south really quick all right you were probably afraid that I would I was like she’s gonna link up with some frat guy and leave me you know leave the game you should have known me I went to maybe two frat parties my entire time
Yeah you would come back I had no interest the frats to me really grossed me I think that’s a lot of reasons why people also join is because um you’re like connected with the either fraternities or the sororities depending on what you’re in and I think a lot of
People will join sororities because of the fraternities and you get to like yeah Frat Boys and everything like I Kendall said I mean that wasn’t an interest to either of us and both of us went in in relationships yeah pretty much so yeah for us it was
Uh friends and it did you know I will say it helped me keep my grades up because they are strict about your grades yep so for the boys too beautiful I think so yeah I think to some degree they are yeah some degree yeah I mean everything’s different for the boys
Though and um we were talking about it before we started here but someone I mean the frats are just out of [ __ ] control as we’ll as we’ll tell you about today especially over there at Penn State man my gosh which is the college we’re gonna be focusing on
Because the The Hazing incidents here often turn turn deadly and it’s it’s horrifying to hear the things that these guys put their brothers through in order to earn that right I guess that’s the thing is that they’re trying to make it like this grueling process so that you
Like kind of do your time in order to become a true brother prove yourself yeah it’s like which I will say you’re also hazed outside of Greek life which we’ve we’ll talk about here in a bit but like for sure your hay Sports and sports
And I mean the whole idea of hazing in general when you’re joining some type of organization in order to be like actually in it and like you you know you worked for this it’s such a weird concept to me that you have to like go through being treated like a piece of
[ __ ] in order to prove your worth into this organization that you’re paying for whether that’s Sports Club sorority you’re you know they’re making money off of you yeah it’s very weird to me it’s at the higher higher levels like college and pro because like I played Sports my
Entire life never once was I here oh no I I never was he went to an intense that’s true my high school yeah I was getting my [ __ ] stolen out of my locker like yeah but it wasn’t there intense about sports as John’s High School was but maybe
Maybe there’s not maybe it’s just at the but it does happen uh really all ages places but um but yeah it’s very much in a sorority in fraternity the real big difference is you are really trying to prove yourself as a worthy member of what you’re joining and so they put you
Through we’re gonna torture you yeah they really do torture you um absolutely sick and I mean if if any of that had had existed in my sorority I would I would have quit day totally like yeah I was never made to do anything I was uncomfortable with
Um but hearing what other people had gone through and actually a close family friend of ours went to Penn State and was in kdr and what he he never went into detail with me so he didn’t want to freak me out but he just said wait really yeah it was in um
God he would have been there in the 80s oh interesting maybe late 80s yeah um and then yeah another family friend of ours went to our school too and he he was in a fraternity he was super hazed I’ll tell you who in a sec
Um but these I think for a lot of these guys it they lose sight of okay I’m trying to make these people prove themselves to us and it becomes like the prison experiment where it just becomes a complete power trip and well yeah because they went through it themselves
So they want their turn my turn that’s that’s kind of the light at the end of the tunnel is like one day you’ll torture others I’ll torture the freshmen coming in it’s just like it’s so toxic man it’s it’s terrifying and they’re not upfront about this no it’s not like they
They tell you what you’re about of course not technically they’re not allowed to join you know there’s a little you’re gonna be uh yeah [ __ ] up all the time and abused sound fun so they that it’s just honestly it’s evil I I think what the fraternities are doing is just downright
Evil and it blows my mind that fraternities aren’t being shut down or all over the country because the things that they make people do will shock you will literally shock you if you if you’re not familiar with this world you’re prepared to be shocked at what some of the things that
They make you do yeah that’s terrible um one of my really good friends growing up he was my neighbor and he went to school in Georgia and he joined a fraternity he would tell me things and I was like what like just brutal [ __ ] I’m sure a
Ton of you guys who are listening to this oh yeah your personal stories tell us your stories we want to hear them want to yeah if you want yeah it’s bad it is it’s pretty pretty intense here so um well like we said we’re gonna be focusing on Penn State and uh multiple
Incidents that happen there before we dive in though we just want to remind everybody that the new space themed merch collection is live at mileharmers.com we’re actually wearing some of it right now all four of the pieces are being wrapped yeah oh yeah yeah it’s selling really crazy though so
Hopefully by the time this episode we aren’t restocking this so if you want something jump on it right now because really limited quantities once they’re gone it’s never going back forever this they are pre-shrunk as well just so you know and they do run just maybe a tad
Big I would say yeah across all the sizes so just keep that in mind when you’re ordering but um yeah available right now my merch talk and if you buy all four of the pieces from one collection you get a 10 discount so if you buy all the mile
Higher pieces 10 same with sash same with lights out and which ones are you wearing you’re wearing the I believe this is the cosmic Explorer I am repping the old far out T Julia’s wearing the we are not alone tea I love that one and I am wearing the infinite campfire long
Sleeve so yeah also before we get into this episode I do want to issue a large trigger warning to some of you that some of the things we’re going to be talking today may be disturbing we’re going to be talking about abuse sexual abuse um animal abuse alcohol abuse alcohol
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So each fall millions of Americans aged 18 to 24 leave home to go to college obviously people go to school at many different ages but that is the majority statistic and about 750 000 of those students decide to join social fraternities and sororities and they’re excited to join a Brotherhood or
Sisterhood and give back to the community but of course what these groups are most known for is partying fraternities in particular are known for wild parties and lots of drinking as we mentioned the sororities literally aren’t allowed to do that so mostly the fraternities are the ones hosting those parties and they’re also
Known for hazing which are rituals for prospective members or pledges that they have to perform to become initiated into the fraternity and this practice is very very controversial fraternity hazing as we know it today usually involves heavy amounts of binge drinking that pledges are more or less forced to do I mean
More for sure it also involves lots of forced exercise extreme humiliation and degradation and psychological and physical punishment and as part of the pledging process pledges are responsible for all of the [ __ ] work that active members give them so that means driving the actives around keeping cigarettes
Dip Vape zins on hand for them at all times zins dip out like pouches basically nicotine pouches those are those are more of a like my age group thing really it doesn’t happen yeah yeah I’m too old for that [ __ ] they’re just nicotine pouches pouches yeah interesting okay
They also have to walk or drive girls home from parties clean the house do errands working the door you know just stuff like that and the purpose of hazing is complex psychologically speaking it’s supposed to instill in pledges discipline loyalty and group Conformity once pledging is over it’s
Supposed to give new initiates a sense of belonging and group attachment but a recent study found that hazing did not have this effect on participants it sort of makes membership more of a reward and more meaningful like you have to earn it it’s the idea that something has more
Value if you have to struggle and persevere and work for it so in theory the more severe The Hazing is the higher the value and group cohesion are but hazing can get so extreme that it involves torturous physical and mental abuse and even animal cruelty and get this 80 percent of fraternity members
Have reported being hazed many young adults have been traumatized injured or even died as a result of hazing but you know what hazing is still the norm for much of the Greek Community especially fraternities most U.S states have laws against hazing but it’s still very widespread and it’s really hard to stop
Hazing entirely because of how deeply ingrained it is in the culture and traditions of these organizations hazing and Greek organizations has been around though since the 1800s today fraternity hazing usually takes place during the pledging process when this is a process that lasts about six weeks or more starting from bid acceptance to
Initiation as full members getting a from a frat is basically like an invitation to join but hazing doesn’t just happen in frats it happens in sororities and other Greek organizations as well but beyond Greek life it happens in organized sports teams especially Collegiate School bands and other organizations and it happens
Internationally not just in the United States hazing often doesn’t get reported because of the Code of Silence among members and the bystander effect members are not allowed to discuss hazing with non-members if they do or worse yet it’s reported to the school or police members are kicked out of the fraternity they’re
Shunned shamed and sometimes harassed and sometimes the entire fraternity can be shut down or removed from campus so going off what Josh said about the bystander effect it’s basically a phenomenon where someone or aka the bystander is less likely to intervene or report you know get involved in some
Type of emergency situation or report some type of misconduct and of course the more people who are present in that given situation the less likely someone is to intervene and it’s because of two things one of them is kind of like diffusion of responsibility where people are you know they think they’re less
Likely to be personally responsible to take action when others are also nearby um and then also there’s social influence so a bystander determines whether or not to take action based on the behavior of the people around them so if you’re in a situation where something bad is happening but no one
Else around you is freaking out then you’re less likely to freak out and take action versus if you’re in a situation and everyone’s you know scrambling and oh my God what do we do someone call the police then you’re more likely to do it because humans want to fit in they want
They don’t want to do something that’s going to make them seem like they’re overreacting or underreacting or you know just reacting in a different way than everyone else around them is and I think that’s a huge reason as to why this is such a problem is because when
There is some type of emergency a lot of people are kind of staring at each other and pointing fingers like what should we do and ends up no one’s doing anything yeah there is one instance in college where a bunch of us rolled up to a fraternity party just as it was being
You know people were fleeing the scene because they had to call police because there was a girl who was unconscious at the front she was like lying in the grass outside of the house and pretty much everyone had cleared the scene I stayed behind with this girl because I had just turned
21 and I thought you know the police will respect me if I stay with this girl and try to help her hers out it was the complete opposite they like threatened to take me to detox and I was like trying to explain to them I was of age
And everything but I’ll never forget having this girl like laying in my arms so unconscious her eyes were like rolling back in her head she looked horrible and I look back and the fraternity president was just standing on the balcony of their house by himself I don’t who knows where all the other
[ __ ] brothers were just watching me didn’t come out to help me didn’t come out to check was just standing with his hands crossed on the porch watching the whole thing It’s like because the second they get involved they know their chances of getting in trouble go up so they’d
Rather just like stand there not do anything we don’t know what happened to her exactly yeah now I wanted to mention obviously it is a rule that they aren’t allowed to share what type of hazing they have been through but all of us have heard of some
Pretty extreme hazing so I wanted to give some examples that we have just heard of um I know someone who had to ride in the back of a truck and every time you know they all had handles and every time they were at a red light they’d have to drink
Until the light turned green I’ve heard of people being dropped off in the woods and having to to drink a bunch and then somehow find their way back Julia’s you’ve heard some pretty crazy stuff too I’ve yeah I’ve heard some pretty pretty horrific things I mean like you know your run-of-the-mill
Drinking hazing those kind of things you know the spray painted puzzles and the strobe lights and the you know you have to finish a handle and complete the puzzle with like metal blasting all night and um um then it just there’s just so many dark things I’ve heard um
Getting locked in a coffin overnight after being dosed with a tab of acid that’s insane and you know if you’re an animal lover you know you don’t want to if this won’t be fun to hear but um when I was a freshman I was looking for a house we were touring houses
And we we get to this one house and it was the strangest thing there was a big cage with a squirrel inside and you know me and all my friends we were like taking videos because we’re like why the [ __ ] is there a squirrel in this apartment you know
We didn’t we didn’t understand and later when I came home I was talking to my stepbrother who went to a school in the South and he was telling me some of the really insane hazing stories and he told me one of them and he wasn’t in a frat but
This is just stuff that he heard and it sounded too crazy for me to believe but now knowing what I know like he told me that um one frat had one of their pledges raise a baby squirrel by hand and then at the end of his bloodship he had to stop it to
Death on a curb for what purpose what does that even prove what does that teach you about yours individual yeah like I don’t it was just so disturbing like I I thought about it you know for days after I heard that because I’m just like why and it was at one point
That memory came back of that house with the squirrel in the basement and I like lost it I just burst into tears because I was like oh my God like I didn’t didn’t realize what it was yeah it’s it’s almost like they set out to be the most extreme
Organization that they can possibly be like there’s such this you know everybody’s got to be macho and you know you’ve got to be super masculine and which none of that really has to yeah but you know what I mean like that like that is the goal right they want to be
The biggest baddest guys on on campus they want to be kind of because there’s competition within the different fraternities as well and I just know groups of guys like there’s always this competitive yeah competitiveness between them so it’s obviously like well our fraternity’s more extreme more badass
Because we do this or whatever and you know we only accept the most extreme pledges or whatever into their into their fraternity I guess I don’t I don’t know I don’t really understand the appeal behind any of that I think it’s also a lot having to do the tradition
Because this type of stuff has been going on in the fraternities for so long so when you join they’re trying to keep it going it’s like oh well we’ve been doing this kind of [ __ ] for years dude so it’s just it’s part of the tradition We’re not gonna
Stop now my grandpa had to do it my dad had to do it my uncle had to do it and I had to do it now you have to do it and it’s this whole idea of if you can get through it then you know you’re one of
Us and you’re in this club and it’s you know very exclusive and you’ve proved yourself and you know that’s how it’s been gone it’s been going like that for years so it’s just how it is and I think also if you’re I could see it being that if you join
And then all of a sudden you’re like I’m not doing that or you stand you take a stance against hazing you’re either not only kicked out but also probably like heavily scrutinized and abused and then you’re also not even in it anyways so it’s like you’ve become a pariah right
Yeah it’s almost in the sense of like when you join a gang and then you try and leave often times it becomes very dangerous for you and I’m not saying this is to the extent of a gang obviously but in the same there’s some kind of Realm of like if you join this
And then you try and leave there will be hell to pay you know what I mean yep and a lot of them in their hazing process and even after your of an official member there’s a lot of pressure to sexually assault women um that’s something that’s also rampant in these fraternities the just
Encouragement the degration of women and how many notches can you get on your belt type of thing I mean it’s just such a toxic culture it’s it’s truly terrifying and um and I’m going off track a little bit here but with Gordy Bailey the way that
His brothers treated him after he he had already died in the house you can look at that story or look at my video on it they literally took Sharpies and Drew all over this poor kid after he was already dead yeah it’s horrific it is it is so so bad I
Truly don’t know how I think what in what was really curious to me is like why why go through this why join this if this if they don’t care about you anyway like it seems like the whole thing is a lie that there’s no there’s no Brotherhood there it’s it’s
Just totally uh fake Assad for some some criminal organization basically like it doesn’t seem like there’s any chivalry you know it’s not like these are the best men on campus or anything like that it just seems like well it’s like a boys club oh I don’t know what kind of boys club that
Is man because I I just don’t I don’t understand what what it is about it that appeals to people like there’s so many other ways to make friends and you know like why well and the thing I think we all have to remember here is when you come into
School most the time when you’re joining some of these things you’re still a kid man you’re looking for acceptance you don’t have a lot of understanding and that’s what’s really crazy at the end of the day is most of these fraternities and sororities are a bunch of kids in a
House trying to govern each other and yes you have like people that are supposed to oversee you they don’t [ __ ] come around like sometimes you have like a house parent but they’re not always there yeah they’re not there to discipline um it’s it’s really a bunch of kids who have no [ __ ] real
Experience and no concept of life outside of where they grew up and then now this fraternity yeah and their their vision is so locked in on that and it’s like in high school you know things seem so extreme to you every breakup every time you lose a friend that
You know when you’re in these situations it’s hard to to look past and see the future right and to realize that you’re only in this for four years like it seems like you’re everything at that point that some of these people are so desperate for that companionship that
Acceptance that they’re willing to do anything and and it it really does pry on children in that way prey on children in my opinion I mean I was so young joining like I didn’t really think about a lot of the stuff that I was you know there were there were things
That went I mean I I wasn’t ever hazed I never hazed anyone but there were things that went against my values as a person that nowadays I wouldn’t have wanted to participate in but I was so young and just wanted to be accepted I understand that to some extent but
I mean you are an adult still at the time of joining of course I’m not I’m not saying I’m saying why would someone want to join to go through all of this because they’re so young and acceptance is so important to you the younger that you are
That that’s why I think a lot of people are willing to do all these degrading things and I think also through had their parents go through and so it’s you know you’re hearing it from your dad like oh you’re gonna grow up to be this or you hear it from your mom oh
You’re you’re gonna join the sorority and so yeah we have a friend who their their mom from a young age told her you are going to be in this sorority period and they had like a fake initiation for them as kids it’s some weird [ __ ] man
It really it’s a whole very toxic world that goes back years and years and years and years my parents were like the devil is in Greek life well Greek life is just they may not be wrong about that for the devil and honestly it’s pretty uh pretty close to hell if
You ask me a lot of these situations are so 98.7 percent of fraternity chapters in the United States operate as affiliated with their University a few schools have unaffiliated ifcs or inter-fraternity councils meaning the school basically has no control over them these ifcs are run by students meaning they have student-run judicial
Boards Affiliated ifcs can use campus spaces and some school resources but the university actually benefits more from being Affiliated that’s because for one great students tend to be more involved in campus and they are also a huge draw for prospective students but of course probably the most important reason is
Money Greek alumni are usually some of the most active alumni and they’re usually the biggest donors Greek life alumni gives four times as much as people who are not in Greek life and they account for an average of 75 percent of the total college and university donation so schools are
Making hella Bank off of Greek life I think that’s a huge reason why even though you know terrible events occur they kind of sweep it under the rug because they’re making money off these people and not only do you make money off of them with active members but then once
You’re an alumni you’re more likely to give back to your school or give back to your sorority or fraternity and so it means a great way for these schools to make money the Carnage going how that who is donating to their school after graduation I’m sorry I gave you so how much
Dude I get hit up all the time from my sorority to the trash but even the college always I get like an email every month I worked at the alumni association association over my college not for the sorority but for my college and I would literally
Cold call people and ask for their own thing oh my God hey we know you’re in debt like 200 000 but can you give us some more yeah it was horrible some people were like oh yeah some people like cussed me out and I was like [ __ ] awkward they can’t even give me
Discounts to the football games now like what the hell where did what you do with all my money and now you want more like no that’s crazy yeah and then and then you’re like where’s all that money going there’s not even enough parking on campus seriously we have so many parking tickets like
Jesus Christ like there’s not even a big enough parking lot for all their students to park in it and with all that money comes influence this means that universities have a financial incentive to keep their Greek Alum happy and a lot of the times keeping those alumni happy Means keeping the actives happy
Pennsylvania State University AKA Penn State gets 80 percent of their donations from Greek alumni and Penn State has the largest dues paying Alumni Association in the country which is something to keep in mind as we go through this episode because we’re going to be focusing on hazing incidents at this
School Penn State has multiple campuses but the University Park campus in State College Pennsylvania is their largest the school is about 46 000 undergraduates enrolled at the main campus and they have thousands more graduate students and students at other campuses making it one of the largest univ diversity systems in the country
And many of those students are members of Greek organizations as of 2022 there are 71 fraternities and sororities on campus and 14 of student body are Greek affiliated as you guys know Josh and I are big animal lovers we have 10 pets total and three of them are cats who are all now
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Code mile higher to save 20 off your first order that’s pretty litter.com mile higher code mile higher to save 20 on your first order pretty litter.com mile higher code mile higher terms and conditions apply Seaside for details but the fraternities at Penn State have had a lot of scandals and controversies
Throughout the years and this includes alarming stories of injuries and deaths that have been associated with them in 2009 Penn State freshman Joseph dado fell down a flight of stairs while intoxicated and died after attending two frat parties after the school’s IFC decided to contract with the security
Firm named Saint Moritz which this was a move supposedly to prevent more dangerous incidents St Morris was supposed to send out employees to frat parties to do random checks these employees were supposed to make sure the frats were following all the necessary safety protocols but the whole thing was
A sham it was a cya move that enabled the frats to continue to party and Haze as they pleased the employees doing the checks were not full-time security guards there were Penn State kids working part-time for the firm so you can imagine how much enforcing was really going on
There if it’s the students not much hazing is really a fact of life at Penn State despite what president and administrators and coaches have said hazing is basically an accepted part of Greek life on campus and so the partying continued as did The Hazing and that included fraternities on other PSU
Campuses which brings us to Marquis Bram he was a freshman studying at the school’s Altoona Campus in 2013 and 2014. he was a happy kid who was very bright and involved with the school and his parents were a little apprehensive when he said he wanted to join a
Fraternity because he was already so busy so here’s a little bit more about Marquis from his father Rich you are walking marquis’s entire life was about service and in his own nature to just lift others such a physically beautiful child such a spiritually and emotionally decent person he never changed until the friend
He was taking 18 credits he was uh um studying to be an R.A and he was also the dorm leader so I was like you know you have enough young man and it’s like you know and then he came yeah but the Frat is the only fun thing that I’ll be
Doing so he pledged Phi Sigma Kappa and the process was nothing short of horrific here are some of the things that the initiates had to do and part of the initiation rights that he had to endure being forced to consume gross amounts of alcohol Chug bottles of Listerine swallow live fish
Fight fellow pledges be burned with candle wax and deprived of sleep for 89 hours in one instance Marquis and other pledges had to do a locked in ceremony for hours they were locked in a room with two kegs of beer and two trash cans they were ordered to finish both kegs
And fill up both trash cans with vomit the disturbing incidents continue in one pledges were told to choose between two options snort a line of cocaine or be sodomized on video Yes you heard that right the video would then be kept as blackmail in case a pledge thought about
Breaking the oath of secrecy a pledge also had a gun held up to his head pledges were even ordered to kill gut and skin squirrels video on marquis’s phone showed a Fight Club where pledges were forced to fight other pledges let’s hear from his dad again about the
Hazing were there any concerns about him going through that process you know we knew that oh gee he’ll do some sort of like stupid rituals but nothing that we thought would could be life-threatening six months of things like having a gun pointed in someone’s head having to
Drink and fill two garbage pails of vomit having to kill and then gut and skin squirrels having to engage in in in in in fights where you’re knocking out your brothers your brothers his phone is speaking to us from the grave the pledging process traumatized Marquis at some points he
Was so distrauty reached out to his dorms ra over text and for those that don’t know resident advisors or Ras or older undergraduate students who live in the dorms and Mentor freshmen they’re also technically um University employees by the way which is important to note
He said I feel like I’ve done so much that it can’t get any worse but it always does LOL a young woman one of marquis’s Ras told him yes it will get worse I’m sorry to say hahaha but it will and these are people who are supposed to help you and Advocate or
Advocate for you instead encouraging him to continue Marquis told her later that day we were allowed to fall asleep last night but I was too scared I think I have a concussion and I didn’t want to fall into a coma and the ra replied stay strong little buddy you’re almost done
And you’ve been so strong Marquis made it through the pledging process and was made a full member of the Frat but the experiences deeply haunted him Marquis was later elected to the frats exact board as a secretary but as part of that position the next semester Marquis had
To be present when the next crop of pledges were hazed he wanted to stay and try to make things better but he couldn’t the thought of that that was too much for him to Bear Marquis went home to New York that spring break he told a family member he was going to go
See a Catholic priest to confess his fraternity sins on March 14 2014 two days before he was due back on campus Marquis sat down to lunch with his mother and at lunch he excused himself from the table and told her he’d be right back then Marquis climbed 11
Stories to the top of a nearby hotel and jumped to his death he was just 18 years old marquis’s family filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Penn State the fraternity and multiple individuals Penn State suspended Phi Sigma Kappa for six years the school conducted an internal investigation but a judge ordered that
This report be kept confidential and here’s Rich’s reaction to this did that to keep it from us seeing it how evil is that how evil must you be to do something like that to let us suffer when you know what’s going on you know what the cause
Is you knew when he was alive that is evil what they’ve done to us when you went to go clean out his dorm room you found things we found a couple bottles a couple alcoholic bottles and the they had numbers on them and they had some
Names on them you have the pictures but what happened to the bottles Penn State threw them out a member of their legal team sent a letter back and said that those um bottles were discarded and I’m like discarded they had pledged names and numbers on them discarded the
Case was brought before a grand jury but they found quote no evidence of criminal wrongdoing related to marquis’s death this was partly because the former pledges were unwilling to name the fraternity brothers who hazed them and here’s what Rich has to say about this what was your reaction to that That’s why this keeps happening that was my reaction to this because no one takes it seriously it’s against the law in the state of Pennsylvania to Haze in the report the grand jury report they acknowledged that Marquis had been hazed the brothers admitted that they hazed him but the Attorney General’s office
Said but we’re not going to do anything we’re not going to prosecute that ridiculous unbelievable I mean just you can just hear the the pain in his voice and the anger as well which [ __ ] pissed you would be as a parent oh my God and the fact that nothing was done yeah other
Than suspending the fraternity which what does that do really not much doesn’t certainly doesn’t help them deal with their grief and then they don’t even get to see the report the next incident we’re going to be talking about took place in 2015 just a year after marquis’s tragic death Penn State
Fraternity Kappa Delta row became the center of a huge Scandal that year James vivenzio went to the police with some serious allegations against his former fraternity one of the allegations stemmed from when James was pledging the Frat two years earlier James was hazed severely and reported this to Penn
State’s office of student conduct this is supposed to be a confidential report but James said that right away the kdr president found out someone reported hazing and he and the other brothers immediately set out to find out who the snitch was the office of student conduct sent their Chief investigator
Out to interview James but despite this nothing was done to seriously investigate until James went to the police during pledging James said that he was burnt with cigarette butts and forced to drink hard liquor without stopping until he threw up he was also subjected to quote late night lineups that featured force-feeding bucketfuls
Of liquor mixed with urine vomit cat food hot sauce and other liquid and semi-solid ingredients here are some of the things the pledges were ordered to do As Told by James lawyer of course to drink a concoction of heated cat food urine hot sauce hard liquor and other unknown ingredients while doing
Nose against the wall lineups wall sits push-ups into their own vomit um uh strobe lights in their face loud music blaring pots banging on metal doors all taking place in the dark uh as members of the pledge class passed out vomited became violently ill and uh were generally made to feel uh
Terrorized and frightened for their life because if James or any other pledge missed a lineup the consequences were severe James missed a lineup once when he came back to the Frat a six foot five member beat him without warning Penn State claimed that they couldn’t investigate James claims because he
Didn’t give them documentation like what was he supposed to do be capturing photo and video and risk being beaten even more James’s lawyer said this isn’t true and James is suing both Kappa Delta Roe and Penn State he said that he has PTSD from his experiences and that he also had to
Go to rehab for alcohol abuse during pledging he failed his freshman year even though he was a really good student in high school but imagine trying to keep your grades up with everything they’re expecting of you that torture having to take all these drugs and alcohol and then go perform while in
School I mean it’s just ridiculous but there was another huge bombshell that James informed the police about he told him that his fraternity had a secret Facebook group for members to share nude photos of female Penn State students some of these students were heavily intoxicated visibly unconscious or being
Sexually assaulted here’s more on this Scandal 144 past and present fraternity members had access to these images One fraternity member boasted the page had more than 370 thousand views others boasted about sexual exploits the president of Penn State University Eric Barron I am very committed to due process I’m very committed to making
Sure that we know exactly who is responsible and then taking action on those that are responsible the men of Kappa Delta row had no interest in talking about the vulgar images on their Facebook page photographs of naked women some of them passed out oh you’re not allowed to do that yeah
You’re on our property at first after James reported the Facebook group to the police the IFC said Kappa Delta Roe could stay on campus this was on the condition that members underwent sexual assault intervention training but Penn State suspended Kappa Delta Row for three years meaning they are now eligible to
Come back on campus and no charges were brought against any of the members of the Facebook group it wasn’t the first time that this frat had gotten in trouble with the school back in 1997 five Penn State students went to student health services with injuries that the doctor strongly suspected were hazing
Injuries the doctor wrote that these injuries had been caused by something that someone else was doing to them their fraternity Kappa Delta row was investigated but it was exonerated since none of the pledges were willing to report what was done to them there already was a Code of Silence when it
Came to hazing and pledges that members were not allowed to snitch about hazing activities themselves but with the 1997 incident there was now another sort of understanding if pledges sought medical treatment for hazing injuries this would invite investigations and attention it would put eyes on them and that couldn’t
Happen so it was understood that taking injured pledges to get medical help was a very big risk for them this was something Penn State beta theta Pi pledged Cordell Davis learned after his bid acceptance night we all live in the digital age and many of us take advantage of Digital Services
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Digital scale lots of free things here no long-term commitments or contracts just go to stamps.com Click the microphone at the top of the page and enter code mile higher and that’s all one word so Cordell was a freshman in a newly initiated brother to beta theta pi as of
December 2016 so he had only been an initiated member for two months by February 2017. pledging was very rough for Cordell the week before initiation pledges went through hell week which is basically a week where hazing really starts to ramp up in one event pledges broke into teams
And had to race to finish three or four different types of alcohol like a case of beer handle of vodka maybe a box of wine and in another event pledges had to drink mush which was a mix of old food and drinks left in the fridge all Blended together and in another event
Pledges were all lined up blindfolded and hit with paddles Which paddles are a big part of fraternities and sororities in fact when I was in a sorority we we never used them they were hung on the wall as decoration but it was still like in our culture to make paddles for other
Members which I assume back in the day even in sororities they were probably used to spank they were you would like hit people with them yeah they’re like wooden paddles essentially I still have mine in our garage somewhere because they at the time it was like your
Your what they would call your big which is like your old older member in the house that was supposed to guide you and luckily I had the most amazing big ever she like really helped me with school and was a really good influence a good
Person but she like put in a ton of work into decorating this thing because I made one for my little and they were like meaningful in our house but the fact that they’re still called paddles and they’re these symbols of what they used to be used for they’re hung up all
Over for turning sorority houses it’s really bizarre to the boys decorate theirs or do they just like they just have blood all they’re like engraved kind I think they’re more like wood cars yeah yeah and they’re like a basically if you find one in a frat it’s like a
Trophy if you steal it but they are really yeah well there’s a lot of stuff that you yeah people will still like composite pictures and [ __ ] I’m kind of condoning it that’s kind of cool to take their stupid paddles okay anyway campfire baby yeah in September of 2016 Cordell was
Actually injured at his own beta bid acceptance night that night Cordell was very intoxicated and he fell and that fall caused a cut on his forehead that started gushing blood blood was everywhere all over his phone and his clothes fraternity members did not call 9-1-1 because that’s the last thing any
Of them want to do instead Tech show that Cordell ended up being in one of the brothers rooms and the brother texted the chapter president Brendan young and said quote I need to go to bed I think he’s fine but he has a bad cut and he’s puking Brendan young replied is
It Cordell and the member responded yeah and I could drive him back but Brendan young replied not worth it let him sleep so nobody from the Frat took Cordell to get help until the next day and the members didn’t take him to the university health services likely because the doctor would have suspected
Hazing instead they took him to urgent care the in incident left a scar in cordell’s forehead that he still has today sadly the next semester’s bid acceptance night would also lead to a pledge being injured and not getting medical care but this incident was fatal Cordell would be there that night
Chatting with the pledge named Tim Piazza neither of them knew that in a few short hours something truly terrible would happen but before we get into that we’re going to talk a little bit more about Tim and the person that he was Timothy John Piazza was born on
September 25th 1997 in Edison New Jersey to his parents gym in Evelyn Piazza he had an older brother named Mike and Tim had lived in Readington Township New Jersey his whole life Tim was a happy-go-lucky kid who was very close with his older brother he had flame red
Hair that he used to insist was brown as a kid but as he got older he grew to love it he was funny and kind always Goofy and pulling practical jokes at Hunterdon Central Regional High School Tim was on the football team and ran Varsity track and when he started out
High school he was shy and always turning red when talking to girls but he had a growth spurt and really started opening up at six foot one his friend described him as a gentle giant he was very protective of more vulnerable kids his age Tim was a very caring kid in high school
He was a peer-to-peer counselor talking directly with fellow students about safe sex and Drug education and this is how he met his girlfriend Caitlyn he also volunteered helping teach special needs children football basketball and baseball Tim’s family had always been huge Penn State fans his brother Mike decided to
Attend the college and the next year Tim did the same at the time of these events it was 2017 and Tim was a 19 year old sophomore at the school he was studying mechanical engineering and his ultimate goal was to use that degree to help create high-tech prosthetic limbs for
Children and soldiers and Tim really excelled his first year at school he continued his work volunteering and helping others Tim’s passion was Thon the Penn State dance Marathon Tim was a member of the thon’s operations committee he was also on the Executive Board of ayuda which is a special interest organization benefiting Thon
Charity dance marathons are student-run events that raise money for youth programs usually children’s hospitals or Childhood Cancer Treatment Thon is a big deal at Penn State they raise money for Childhood Cancer and it is the largest student-run philanthropy in the world actually they’ve raised over two hundred thousand dollars and have over sixteen
Thousand student volunteers Tim was doing well socially but his friends and family believed that he was interested in joining a group with a real sense of belonging so he was attracted to the idea of joining a fraternity of course and he wanted to join for that sense of
Brotherhood and belonging for him it wasn’t the partying timid told his parents that he was interested in rushing his dad was not big on the idea he thought the whole thing would distract him from school and Tim was a really studious kid Tim’s parents hadn’t been involved in Greek life when they
Went to college so in the fall of 2014 when Tim was a freshman they attended an information session at the school to learn more the university official informed the crowd of parents that there was no hazing at Penn State there was a long uncomfortable silence and then one
By one parents raised their hands to tell the official that their sons were currently being hazed Jim sort of tried to talk to him out of rushing but Tim decided he was going to go through with it and after the Russian process he got a bid it was from his top fraternity choice
Beta theta pi and Tim’s choice to rush beta actually was kind of reassuring to his parents that’s because beta at Penn State was supposed to be a no alcohol no hazing frat so they were supposed to be a dry frat what had happened was Beta had been kicked off campus in 2009 by
Nationals for a series of alcohol violations but they were eventually allowed to come back on campus the next year with the condition that they reopened as a dry house Donald Abby a billionaire alumni and beta brother visited the house in 2004 and he was so disgusted by the living conditions that
He gave the house a lavish 8.5 million dollar renovation it was one of the most expensive frat Renovations in history the renovations were completed in 2007 and the interior of the house had stained glass windows and a dining table made out of hand carved Colombian
Mahogany sure the frat house is up in uh where where you guys went to college was just as nice right now there’s no hand carved mahogany no I remember um friends over at CU telling me what their sorority houses were like and I was stunned they were so nice yeah ours
Wasn’t like gross it was just very old but I’m talking about the Frat houses were straight disgusting like should be good like I said I’ve only been to a brat house a handful of times and I was just like were they ever people live no no not that I’ve never been sick there’s
Like dust bunnies everywhere way worse than that the floors were sticky stuff there’s like [ __ ] everywhere and like stains and all the furniture disgusting it’s like hazardous to be in there I could never live in an environment like that I’d be like cleaning the house all day because this
Is disgusting yeah but yeah definitely even the sorority house that we lived in like we kept it pretty clean but it was old it was clean it was just very old it’s small yeah it was a very historical building as well yes Yes actually actually very haunted yeah we have some
Stories but anyway so this fraternity house was I mean eight million dollar renovation is going to be pretty nice unbelievable the kitchens were decorated with copper ceilings and the bathrooms were given heated floors there were even fingerprint scanners installed at the entrances but of course the boys promptly trashed the house and they
Racked up more alcohol violations Donald was not happy so he decided to have 14 cameras installed in all public rooms of the fraternity however the drinking of course continued in full view of these cameras for years you guys know how much we love native deodorant but one thing you may not know
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Recording in 2017 and that’s how authorities were able to see the gut wrenching last hours of Tim piazza’s life and that night was bid acceptance night at 220 North Burroughs Street on the evening of February 2nd 2017 the brand new beta pledges were called in for bid acceptance night it would be
Tim’s first night spent in the fraternity house the pledges are told to arrive at 9pm sharp that evening Tim got dressed and ready for the night he put on the required pledge uniform khakis a button-down shirt and sports jacket then he called his girlfriend but she didn’t
Answer he left her one final voicemail and here’s what it said I really feel terrible that I didn’t get to talk to you today I don’t know how long I’ll be here I’ll be getting pretty [ __ ] up by them I’ll call you when I’m on my way
Back otherwise if I don’t talk to you tonight I love you and then Tim left his dorm for the last time and headed to the frat house that night there were a series of initiation rituals that the new pledges were supposed to complete one of these included The Gauntlet this is an
Obstacle course that pledges had to run through and drink lots of vodka beer and bagged wine much of the night was captured on CCTV and we can piece the timeline together from court documents the pledges all filed into beta’s grade Hall at 8 56 pm and all the lights are
Off except for one in the front of the room the light illuminates the faces of pledge Master Daniel Casey chapter president Brendan young and vice president of recruitment Ryan Burke at 906 PM the pledges are LED out of the room ten minutes later the first pledge begins The Gauntlet Tim begins The
Gauntlet at 9 21 pm and the pledge Master hands him a bottle of vodka and Tim drinks from it heavily then Tim has handed a Beer by Brother Nicholas kubera and he shotguns it at 10 31 so about an hour later the pledges begin to walk up
From the basement they all look visibly intoxicated in the span of 82 minutes Tim is consumed at least 18 alcoholic drinks at the conclusion of that binge his blood alcohol concentration was somewhere between 0.28 and .36 I just want to stop for a moment like and
Really yeah that’s a lot let that sink in in less than an hour and a half 18 drinks 18. that’s unbelievable I don’t even think I’ve ever had 18 drinks in a day a weekend that’s just so much and not just like 18 beers too hard
Liquor how do you even function at that point I guess you don’t no you don’t that’s what they want at 10 40 a brother named Lars Kenyan helped him to a couch in the Great Hall Tim was staggering and hunched over as he walked and three minutes later
Nicholas kubera came over and encouraged him to stand up Nicholas helped him walk through the dining room and kitchen before returning to the living room at 10 45 Tim stands up without help and staggers to the front door he tries and fails to open it then he staggers towards the basement staircase passing
Brothers Jerry Coyne and Luke Visser on the way then Tim in his heavily intoxicated State falls down the stairs and he likely suffers significant head trauma including a skull fracture a brother hears the phone looks down the stairs and seized him face down at the bottom with his legs still on the steps
Brothers Ryan Burke Luke Visser Greg Rizzo and Jonah Newman carried him up from the stairs at 10 47 pm he is limp and there’s a visible bruise on his abdomen the boys put Tim on the couch and little does anyone know at the time the bruise on Tim’s abdomen is actually
From a spleen laceration that he has just sustained and blood is spilling into his body at this point Greg gives Tim a sternum rub which is seen on campus as a test for Consciousness but he doesn’t respond two minutes later Greg throws a beer in Tim’s face but he
Still doesn’t respond another brother then throws shoes at him hard Ryan then lifts him’s arm but it immediately falls back down at 10 55 Jonah grabs a backpack and puts it on Tim to stop him from rolling on his back at 11 PM brother Ryan Foster sits on
Tim’s leg so that he doesn’t roll over 12 minutes later Jonas sits on Tim’s leg to stop them from moving at 11 14 Cordell Davis walks into the Great Hall and seized him lying on the couch he leans over Tim to get a look at him and
Notices that he’s in rough shape he turns to the brothers and looks really animated he points to his head and then points at Tim Cordell testified that he was screaming and yelling at the brothers telling them that they needed to get help and that Tim needed to go to
The hospital Jonah then shoves Cordell up against the wall and tells him things are under control here’s Cordell talking about what happened that night so as I walked into the room there are people surrounding him kind of pointing and laughing and I was I asked I said what’s happening I said
Why is Tim on the couch and they were like oh he’s just fine he’s just had too much to drink and I’m like if he had too much to drink and he was on the couch this is kind of this is kind of a bad situation they’re kind of brushing
It off saying no like he’ll be fine he needs to sleep at all and then they were like oh well some they’re like screaming they’re like Tim fell down the stairs too no one thought to call 9-1-1 you didn’t think to to remove yourself in the
Situation and and and get get your your friend help I did I told I said he he needs to be at the hospital right now I said we we should call 9-1-1 get him in an ambulance and I’m screaming I’m very like I’m being very obvious with my thoughts and
You know it was kind of like shut up I got thrown against the wall um I didn’t I didn’t know what to do after that I felt kind of useless and I felt like I had no say in the situation after that you did feel like you could
You could leave and and call somewhere else go outside or do anything you didn’t think I was told that I was overreacting that was crazy I said I said well if you fell down the stairs maybe he has a concussion maybe worse and we can’t let him fall asleep
And they’re saying oh that’s a myth so I’m questioning myself I’m saying do I really know what I’m talking about like do I like what do I actually know as when they’re when everyone is telling me I’m wrong I just it was just hard to like think that’s an example of the
Bystander effect yeah right there like you just heard Cordell tried to voice his concerns to the chapter’s vice president Ed Gilmartin and he’s like dude we gotta call an ambulance get him to the hospital this is very serious and Cordell said that if Tim indeed had a
Concussion and he went to sleep it’s possible he’d fall into a coma but Ed called him crazy and said that other brothers were biology and Kinesiology Majors so cordell’s words meant quote nothing to him compared to theirs and Ed also told him that the whole Sleeping
With a concussion thing was a myth so then Cordell left the room feeling defeated and at this point Tim is thrashing and making weird movements here’s what Cordell had to say about what he would have done differently and Tim’s mother’s response I would say don’t be afraid to speak up I mean
With like the hierarchy of a fraternity when you have like the exact with all the power and then me only being there for a little bit of time I didn’t really have any power but um when like when you think something is wrong you shouldn’t be afraid to speak your mind and
Unfortunately like I was kind of like manipulating and thinking oh everything’s gonna be fine it’s nice that he had good intentions at the time but I don’t know why anybody didn’t pick up a phone at 11 25 pledge Master Daniel Casey walks into the Great Hall to check on Tim
He slaps Tim’s face three times meanwhile two brothers are wrestling in the great room and they fall down hard on top of Tim after this Tim starts twitching and vomiting at 11 53 Greg Rizzo sent a message to the frats GroupMe chat also Tim Piazza might
Actually be a problem he fell 15 feet down a flight of stairs hair first going to need help so then about an hour passes and it’s February 3rd and Tim is still on the couch dying and again this stuff is hard to hear so please keep that in mind throughout the
Night Tim is in and out of Consciousness still highly intoxicated and thrashing around in pain at 1am the brothers watch as Tim vomits and begins to Twitch on the couch Brothers Ryan Foster Jerry Coyne and Joseph M’s backpack Tim to prevent him from rolling on his back at
1 48 a.m Tim rolls on the floor Ryan Joseph and brother Matt reinmond picked him up and slammed him on the couch Brother Joseph Ms appears frustrated with Tim on camera footage so he takes a shoe and throws it at Tim but he doesn’t wake up
Then using an open hand Joseph hits him hard right on his bruise Tim spleen had been lacerated but after this hit it was shattered Tim does not wake up the brothers leave him lying there unconscious on the couch at 3 22 am Tim regains at least a little bit of
Consciousness Joseph is nearby Tim tries to stand but he can’t get his footing he falls backward and hits his head on the hardwood floor Joseph shakes Tim to see if he moves and then just leaves the room at 3 54 so about 30 minutes later
Tim tries to stand up again but he falls face first on the floor and he lies there until 4 59 am and at this time Tim is able to stand and he starts to stagger towards the lobby but a few seconds later he falls into an iron railing and onto the stone floor
Tim got up again and tried to make it to the front door but again he falls this time headfirst into the door at 508 Tim rests on his knees his head is buried in his hands and then Tim rolls onto his side and holds his abdomen this is just
So it’s heartbreaking I mean he’s trying to leave he’s trying to go get himself he knows oh my God no one doing anything no one at any point they’re backpacking him so that he doesn’t choke on his vomit they know something’s wrong clearly they’ve been told something is wrong but they’re more
Concerned about the safety of their frat than the safety of their brother you know it’s all about the Brotherhood yeah it’s a person like right in front of you suffering and dying and like oh but my frat my [ __ ] frat like and this is the same thing we see with tons
Of these hazing stories where they could have been prevented if someone did something at 5 15 a.m brother Jonathan Martinez comes downstairs for a drink of water and he actually stepped over to him 10 minutes later another brother Frederick steimling came down for water and he watched him for a moment then
Tried helping him get to the Great Hall Tim falls down three steps and Frederick steps over to him and leaves him lying on the floor eventually Tim made it into the Great Hall at 6 44 another pledge walked into the Great Hall and found Tim he watched
As Tim rolled off of the couch and fell to the floor Tim is able to get to his knees and he cradles his head in his hands at 6 57 The Pledge took out his phone and recorded a Snapchat video of Tim and then while Tim Rock back and
Forth on the ground The Pledge left at 7 18 am Tim stood up and staggered towards the basement steps and for a few hours he actually staggers around the basement ending up behind one of the bars Brothers Daniel Erickson and Kyle pechi went to search for Tim around 10 a.m and
Daniel found him still behind the basement bar he was lying on his back with his arms at his sides and his hands were clenched into fists his face is bloody his skin is pale and cold to the touch his eyes are half open and his breathing is labored Daniel Kyle and another brother
Carried him up the stairs to the Great Hall and put him on the couch his body is rigid and his skin is gray the brothers tried to shake him awake Tim remained unconscious they tried to unclench his fists but they were too rigid then they wiped
The blood from his face he was missing the shirt and jacket he wore the night before and brothers tried to dress him but his arms were too stiff to put a shirt on they covered him in a blanket to try and warm him up but nobody called
9-1-1 the brothers then began to clean up the house at this point it looks like they’re trying to make the house look better for when the authorities come in one brother uses his phone to search for things like cold extremities and drunk person and binge drinking alcohol bruising or discoloration cold feet and
Cold hands other brothers stand around on their phones and yet nobody calls for help until nearly an hour after Tim was found in the basement finally at 10 48 am brother Ryan McCann called 9-1-1 and he doesn’t mention that Tim had fallen down the stairs that night
Here’s that 9-1-1 call and notice the lack of urgency and and panic in this person’s voice I won what is the address to the emergency uh 229 220 2q North Credit Street okay what’s your name Ryan McCann and what’s going on today we have one we have a friend who don’t sponsor to
Okay how old is he he is that’s 19. yeah what’s he breathing he is breathing well there any alcohol or anything involved do you know yes sir all right we’ll get somebody over there okay if anything can just call back a month no you’re welcome bye-bye Tim was immediately rushed to Mount Nittany
Medical Center 80 of Tim’s blood had leaked into his abdomen by the time he arrived to the hospital that morning Tim hadn’t come home so his roommate called Tim’s brother Mike he was worried because Tim always came home so Mike decided to call the hospital and ask if
He was there they told him that he was and Mike needed to come right away which he did once Mike got to the emergency room he sought him it was covered in bruises and on life support Evelyn Tim’s mom was at work when she got the call
From Mike he told her that Tim was being airlifted to Hershey Medical Center and that they needed to come now the doctor told Evelyn that Tim was a very sick boy who had a subdural hematoma after that he was taken via helicopter to Hershey Medical Center where he arrived at 3 pm
Evelyn called her husband and they immediately raced to the hospital in the car Evelyn told Jim that Tim’s bid acceptance was the night before and at that point Jim knew that his son wasn’t going to make it that’s because of a conversation he had had with a family’s friend’s son earlier that morning
The son was a student at Rutgers University and Jim was giving him career advice the friend mentioned the gym that he was a fraternity member who pledged that past semester this is what Jim said of their conversation quote he said Rutgers didn’t Haze too much but he had
To get signatures from a sister house at Penn State they made him drink with them he said they Haze pretty hard at Penn State people die from hazing while he was saying that Tim is lying at the bottom of the steps at Penn State that young man was sent to me that
Morning to tell me my son was going to die Evelyn was trying to keep her hopes up she knew Tim was badly hurt but she hoped and pray that they were injuries he could recover from but a chaplain was sent to Jim and Evelyn immediately after they got to the
Hospital and again Jim knew the chaplain LED them to a surgeon who delivered the horrible news Tim wasn’t going to wake up here’s a clip of Tim’s mother and brother talking about seeing him in the ICU that night he was all covered up with warming blankets you were trying to
Find a spot of skin to touch the nurse brought me forward and told me to kiss him goodbye it was hard that’s what you think of when you close your eyes it looked like he got hit by a car he was in bad shape he was on full life support
His eyes were half open he wasn’t there the nurse brought me in a room to see them and and they they broke it to me that he wasn’t gonna wake up ever it’s just so heartbreaking to hear these parents talking about this moment I can’t I really can’t
Imagine especially now being a parent myself seeing your child in that condition after all the years and work you put into raising them and making them the best possible person that they can be and he had such a bright future ahead of him and to see all of that wasted due to the
Incompetence of this fraternity the selfishness the the Pure Evil or none of them to have done something sooner if they did they could have possibly saved his life can’t even imagine dealing with the thought of my son’s death was preventable I don’t know how you recover I don’t
Know if you ever really truly can so Tim was surrounded by his family and they held his hands and told him that they loved him and A Tear rolled down Tim’s cheek so clearly he knew he was there Jim his father actually asked the doctor if Tim could hear him and the
Doctor said maybe Jim took comfort in the fact that Tim could have known that he was with family and that he was loved but he thinks that if Tim could hear he also could hear what doctors were saying and that he knew he was about to die doctors did everything they could but
They determined that Tim’s injuries were unsurvivable and at 1 23 am Timothy John Piazza was pronounced dead his cause of death was multiple traumatic injuries sustained by multiple Falls he suffered a skull fracture ruptured spleen traumatic brain injury collapsed lung and a subdural hematoma the manner of death was listed as accidental
Jim Tim’s father asked the surgeon if Tim could have been saved had someone gotten him help earlier the surgeon said absolutely yes if after Tim had fallen down those stairs the first time after the boys tested three times and found him was unconscious and they had called for help he would
Still be alive but they didn’t and now he isn’t Tim was a member of beta for just 28 hours before they killed him the men who he was supposed to call his brothers left him to die and the next day they were more concerned about whether or not the chapter would be
Kicked off campus after Tim went to the hospital on the third many beta members immediately went into cover-up mode in one text chapter VP Ed Gilmartin texted pledge Master Daniel Casey make sure the pledges keep quiet about last night in this situation Daniel replies they know and Ed says okay good
Meanwhile chapter president Brendan young texted an unnamed person a name person said like what did most of the damage Brendan said he fell down a flight of stairs because he was too drunk the other person said you can’t blame yourself Brendan said how can I not I don’t think
You can fully comprehend the situation he looked [ __ ] dead members of the exec board started removing Tim from group chats in an attempt to get the evidence off his phone they deleted their own group chats text messages and Google searches to try and cover their tracks idiots and they even tried to
Erase the camera footage showing the night and morning of Tim’s death texts from hours after Tim went to the hospital to show that Brothers conspired to erase camera footage from the second and third one member Adam mangden wrote erasing the cameras could be the look as long as no one found out
Member Braxton Becker replied I think the exact same thing the guy told me to check them in like a few days and make sure they were recording I could say I checked and they weren’t and just turned them on I want to talk to Brendan later that day Daniel Casey asked Braxton what
Times did they take the tape of like is the obstacle course in it Braxton replied nah they took the tapes from 7 and 9 30 a.m Casey said [ __ ] yes and Braxton said we should be good on that front at least [ __ ] it’s wow ridiculous on February 5th after Tim’s passing many
Of the boys were still worried about themselves and their stupid house Brendan young was texting with another member who asked between you and me what are the chances the house gets shut down Brendan replied I think very high I just hope none of us get into any lawsuits
The other member asked you think they are going to sue us Brendan replied it depends if they want to go through with it or just distance themselves from us all together on February 6th a fraternity brother allegedly Braxton Becker deleted the camera footage from the second and third
Police were originally told that the downstairs cameras hadn’t been working that night but they actually had been of course and Braxton allegedly deleted the footage while the police were inside the house at that point the brothers thought that their tracks were covered but investigators were able to recover that
Footage the security Firm St Moritz was supposed to save Tim’s life in theory but in fact only a few minutes before Tim fell down the stairs to Saint Moritz employees arrived at the beta house to check the party they walked through the house and saw numerous Rule and
Violations and they reported none of them the checkers left and the fraternity brothers were allowed to keep the party going and these Checkers can’t be identified because both Saint Morris and the IFC claim they have no records from that night in response to Tim’s death the university permanently banned beta
Theda PI from the campus the school took control of the frats out of the hands of the IFC run by frat brothers and into the hands of the office of student conduct the party checks would be conducted by University employees not Saint Moritz a grand jury indicted 18
Beta members on over 1 000 counts including hazing Furnishing alcohol to minors evidence tampering assault and involuntary manslaughter eight of them were charged with felony aggravated assault and misdemeanor involuntary manslaughter charges here’s a compilation video of some of the boys lawyers defending them the video I saw
Fuzzy as it is Joey may have reached down to to arouse him but he certainly didn’t punch him and it does it concern you that Joey didn’t call for help didn’t call him he’s not charged with that it concerns me that no one called for help sad tragic event but for joems
It’s not a criminal it’s not a criminal case 19 year old Luke Visser is charged with involuntary manslaughter aggravated assault and hazing charges leveled against my client Luke Visser a holy and absolutely unjustified unwarranted and just simply without any basis it’s a tragedy but you know that doesn’t mean
There was any intent involved in any of this but the charges the number of defendants were whittled away prosecutors can get the most serious charges of involuntary manslaughter and aggravated assault to stick so they were dismissed when this was announced in court the 16 brothers backslapped and fist bumped each other in Celebration
As time went on over a dozen Brothers pled guilty to minor charges related to alcohol or hazing most were sentenced to probation community service or short periods of house arrest two brothers had all of their charges dropped chapter president Brennan young and pledge Master Daniel Casey are still awaiting
Trial how seriously the school is taking these sanctions on Greek life remain to be seen Penn State had banned beta theta PI from campus but only a week after the most serious charges against the brothers were dropped Penn State beta alumni got an email it was an invitation
For alumni Brothers to stay at the house during fall football weekends the piazzas filed multiple civil lawsuits including a wrongful death suit against many beta Brothers the National Organization Penn State School administrators and Saint Moritz in 2018 Pennsylvania passed the Timothy J Piazza anti-hazing law now cases where hazing
Results in serious injury or death are third degree felonies New Jersey passed a similar law named after Tim in 2021 today day beta theta Pi is still permanently banned from Penn State the former frat house still sits vacant due to a legal dispute the house has been
Occasionally used by Beta alumni to stay in for football games it’s owned by the alumni run beta house Corporation but the school is trying to buy it Tim’s parents hope that the school gets control of the building that way it can be demolished or converted into an engineering building named after Tim
Penn State had talks of getting rid of Greek life entirely and they imposed restrictions on Greek life after Tim’s death this included Banning liquor day-long events kegs limiting socials and deferring Rush events to this spring semester many PSU Greeks were not happy on Greek rank a popular Greek life
Message Board some talked about protesting they were angry at the school’s reaction they knew how much Greek Penn State Alumni contributed to the school Finance so they wanted them to send the school a message but six years after Tim’s death there were reports recently that Penn State University is thinking of rolling back
The rules they implemented in 2017. this will put the control of the chapters back in the hands of the IFC and out of the school’s hands these rules were implemented as part of the settlement with the Piazza family the family always thought that these rules would be permanent and they weren’t aware that
The University was in talks to roll them back so you might be wondering the state of things at Penn State today here’s a post from a recent former student about their experience and why they transferred the title of this post is Penn State could care less about students it says I am a
Current student at PSU up and I wish I could go back three years to high school and unapply to this school the first few weeks here were great the parties the drugs football games everything seemed perfect until one random Tuesday in February my freshman year I lived in Pollock Halls
Right across from the shared bathroom and one night my roommate and I heard screaming and crying coming from the bathroom a girl on our floor was being assaulted so we called the police immediately they caught the kid who attacked her but nothing and I mean nothing happened to him Penn State swept
It under the rug like they do every assault case they have AKA Sandusky and nothing disgusted me more than my best friend getting roofied at a fraternity getting a toxicology report and Penn State still not caring that students are drugging one another coming from a university that got the
State of Pennsylvania to put laws in place due to our hazing they shouldn’t take a roofie incident so light Penn State has absolutely no regard for their students unless they are some kind of athlete the school’s main focus is not on educating their students but making sure football pumps out enough money the
School just in general treats you as if you aren’t a person and I came from a high school that I used to being just another number but this is on a whole nother level of no care for the students if you’re currently in high school reading this save yourself the stress
And don’t come here a Hulu series based on the Atlantic article on Tim piazza’s death in the dark history of fraternities that Penn State is actually in production Jim and Evelyn Piazza are now anti-hazing Advocates who tell Tim story to college students across the country they are sometimes joined by
Marquis bram’s parents who are also anti hazing advocates they miss their voice terribly and they hope that by telling their stories they can prevent other students from becoming victims but sadly there are tons of people who have been negatively impacted by Greek life according to investigate TV within the past two decades alone
More than 60 men have died while attempting to join a fraternity um they also claim that in an analysis of 342 hazing cases at 35 universities since 2017 only 10 of these cases ended up in a frat or sorority being expelled from campus and in three of those cases
A pledge died yeah there’s there’s many more stories that I would like to cover um if you guys are interested in us jumping into some of those I think these are important stories to tell Tim had a whole life ahead of him and he was really looking forward to it we’re
Going to leave you with part of Tim’s letter to his future self and this is heartbreaking he wrote it his junior year of high school and it was meant to be opened in five years and he would never live to read it dear Tim hopefully all is well how is everything
Have you achieved what you wanted to I hope we have made it my goals are to go to a good college hopefully you have a good major too maybe engineering or whatever also hopefully you aren’t sad or an angry person anymore I hope our depressed feelings have been cleared up
Also the muscle pains now I want to tell you some things that I know now that I know should happen or you need to do one good college two good major three girls maybe you’ve gotten better four don’t sweat the small stuff relax a little and enjoy life
5. find happiness not everything is on a silver platter you need to find what makes you happy contact your old friends contact family more I don’t know how long any of us will be around but cherish everyone cherish everyone everyone is important everyone is worthy of being treated like they
Matter it is not hard to be kind which these words coming from a junior in high school to me just seems so it speaks volumes on yeah who he was and his character yeah really good really wise really wise Mike Tim’s brother told the New York Times that Tim really loved his flame
Orange hair he fondly remembers that Tim was excited to get older and grow his version of a salt and pepper beard which he would call a salt and paprika beard Mike laughed at that memory but then he stopped and said I’m never going to see it oh just heartbreaking man it really
Is it’s just so upsetting because it’s so preventable like [ __ ] stopping selfish pieces of [ __ ] and called the police once he fell he probably would be here today or at any time throughout when he was in the house dying yeah dying trying to get help clearly had
Tried to get up at one point yeah what what were these fraternity brothers so scared of it doesn’t seem like they get in trouble anyway even if they they get caught so it’s like there is no point to not get him help period nothing would have happened to him either way well
They’re scared of the chance that they could be kicked off campus that’s all that they care about protecting themselves protecting their Brotherhood it’s you know Shrine but not actually protecting their brothers and their Brotherhood exactly if it means that the rest of them protecting the legacy of the Brotherhood the reputation
Sounds like a bunch of [ __ ] it is a bunch of [ __ ] it really is and like when you think obviously it’s not an excuse but all all of these guys are kids they’re young they’re right out of high school they’re [ __ ] clueless and the I mean I feel like there should be
An adult at the house at all at all of these fraternities and sororities at all times that are overseeing everything they’re doing because it’s just a bunch of kids but it’s not they’re all overeating I know I know but like think of how young of course stupid you are at
That age they shouldn’t be left alone to be making such vital decisions in these moments everything washes over them and they had a living there’s no one’s watching over there someone did someone lived a living advisor but where were they not doing anything that’s what I’m saying they I mean whether they were
There or not they didn’t do [ __ ] someone should be there to stop that [ __ ] in an emergency do something immediately be observing everything that they’re doing well there is cameras too yeah what was the purpose of the camera the cameras for for the damage because the you know
The wealthy guy that donated all the money that’s a PSU Alum was pissed that the fraternity brothers were trashing the house as if they would do anything [ __ ] differently right yeah but it’s not you know to keep anyone safe it’s still preserve this the house service eight million dollars investment run out
And I want to be really clear here when I say they are a bunch of kids I’m not making excuses for them like they’re kids so they sh they should have known better they are adults technically they absolutely should have known I would hope so by the time you’re graduating
College you’re I’m just saying that they’re young enough to where I don’t think they should be alone doing whatever the [ __ ] they want especially when we know that these things happen all the time there should be someone that comes by at least every hour if not is there all the
Time in my opinion but then like there’s Annex houses which are basically just you know homes that a group of them and from the Frat or sorority will go and rent out and live in like they there is you can’t like oh well Dad is here so we can’t Haze
Tonight like they’ll go Haze somewhere else it’s true it needs to be a serious crime that ends you up and that’s like guarantees jail time yeah no the punishment’s got to be heightened for this to stop the fact that it’s just a slap on the wrist
Is what’s what the actual problem is so the [ __ ] schools need to step up their game about this yeah it’s ridiculous but they won’t because it’s there’s money involved there’s donations involved in donors not just the fraternities and sororities like there are there are House parties where yeah
You know people die all the time and no one does anything it’s just it’s [ __ ] horrific it makes me scared for my child to go like I remember my parents feeling scared when I got into Greek life and went to college in general and I never understood why you
Know you trust me I’ll be fine and of course I was pretty responsible but it’s like you just never know what [ __ ] you could get into oh my God there’s there’s literally sexual assault happening in the dorms like oh and nothing’s nothing’s happening the stuff that happens on campus across this country
And across the world is just horrific and like we said there are so many more stories that we would like to cover and and bring light to so please let us know if you are interested in us doing that this I’m trying to Google I can’t find there is a law though
I it might only be in Colorado the safe haven yeah thank you yeah where you report and you don’t get in trouble for it well that’s what I thought was going to happen to me when I I wasn’t the one who actually called the police but I
Stayed with that girl I thought that the police were going to be like you know yeah you’ve been drinking even though I was 21. and I thought they would like appreciate that and I thought I thought of that safe haven law in that moment that I’m I’m here helping someone and they were
They literally almost took me to detox and I was not even that drunk I mean it was just I don’t know I I was just crazy because like I had a similar situation when I was in college and we were literally carrying this girl back to her dorm and you know
Obviously the cops were like what’s this and you know they talk to her and we were drinking and you know I thought they couldn’t tell but I’m sure you could tell that we were also drinking yeah obviously not nearly the same level we didn’t know the girl but
They kind of just let us go and was this University Police or is this Boulder Police uh University most likely see and that that I think that all campus University Police should be doing way more that they’re not that either they’re not big enough like numbers wise to to police
This many kids in a small area or they just aren’t they just aren’t doing enough to prevent this stuff from happening or Patrol these areas to show presence where these fraternity houses are like they should be combing these places up and down up and down looking for for any
Signs of of hazing and things like that and that’s the thing is it’s not a serious enough crime for them to care about really at the end of the day and you know they’re more worried about whatever else they’re doing and so these things just go on and on and on without
Any sort of repercussions but I think that’s how you solve this you make the repercussions so serious that people don’t want to do it anymore because they don’t want to risk not only will I be kicked out of my frat I’ll be kicked out of school my whole life will be over
Because I’m now a felon you know what I mean make make it uh I’m glad that Tim’s log out passed it’s a third third degree felony but it’s like it should be a felony across the country I mean and I I think you’ll start seeing you know all
It takes is for that one frat guy to to go to pre to go to prison and become a felon and his whole life to be over because he was hazing somebody that ended up resulting in someone’s death I think you see a dramatic drop in
It I think that’s the issue and I don’t see why that’s not already being done there’s no reason for hazing to ever even be a thing it’s so crazy too is there are six states that don’t have pacing laws that’s crazy to know that’s unbelievable so kids are just dying and
They don’t care what are those Six States um I believe one is Wyoming um Alaska Hawaii DC I don’t know if that’s also counted in the six or six and DC but um and then there’s two others says Alaska Hawaii New Mexico Wyoming South Dakota Montana wow that’s shocking actually that doesn’t
Even surprise me that those are the states that have it yeah that’s not shocking well we definitely want to hear your thoughts on all of this and experiences that you may have experienced yourself or things that you’ve heard of um because I think people should be well
Aware of these things if they’re going to even consider uh rushing for a fraternity yeah or maybe you’re somebody out there who’s headed to college freshman year is coming up and you’re considering yeah rushing like be careful it’s good to be you know at least know about these
Things and protect yourself and check in on your loved ones too like just working on this episode was so difficult because it’s like I have a brother in college right now my little brother and yeah oh I just I can’t imagine anything happening to him I you know yeah it’s
It’s hard to think about especially because college is supposed to be like the greatest time of your life and you know you’re going there to it’s really the transition from childhood to adulthood in a lot of ways and so it’s supposed to be this memorable time where you’re really growing and kind of
Coming into your own and it’s certainly not supposed to be where you meet your early death and and you just have to be careful out there at the end of the day it’s like nothing is worth your life right like nothing is worth your safety there’s no club or title or
You know friend group that’s worth risking your life for and I mean this also is a great example of just how dangerous alcohol is like alcohol is one of the most dangerous drugs on the planet and yet so normalized yeah and it’s like you don’t
And at that age too it’s like oh my God you know in college I’m not a teenager mindset where I’m invincible and it’s like I look back now in the amount of times I could have actually died is like haunts me you know it’s yeah alcohol poisoning’s real man and look
Out for the people around you even if you don’t know them if you see someone who’s struggling like check on them don’t leave them alone call the police if you need to yeah and we need better Mental Health Resources on college campuses anywhere it’s a really bad problem I mean yeah
Horrible so and if you are in a fraternities or sorority or just on a campus right now and you know of something happening report it I know it can be scary especially if you’re in the fraternity or sorority to to stand up and to do that but you could save
Someone’s life I mean hopefully the school would actually do something with it but it’s the least you can do is is try yeah I mean college is temporary man yeah it’s all temporary and one day you’re gonna look back on it and be like you know it was it was an experience but
It’s not the right you have your whole life ahead of you there’s so much more to life to experience and at that time College can seem like your whole world that’s all that matters is getting into this fraternity this sorority this you know it doesn’t matter it’s not gonna
Really do that much for you at the end of the day it’s just kind of the later on it’s like who cares so depressing um yeah who knows what these who knows what Tim and all these other people that have died in these ridiculously stupid ways you know that
Totally could have been prevented it’s it’s so infuriating thinking of what impact they could have had on the world and it was all lost for what for what there’s got to be way there’s just got to be better ways to like I get you want to like put your members through tests
And stuff but it’s like this is this is like not even the US military’s putting their records through this stuff I mean this is just straight up yeah it’s torture like let’s get more creative here like there’s got to be more creative things that don’t don’t jeopardize someone’s life yeah to to
Create a more engaging challenging sort of recruitment process like how about how about we go back to the drawing board and re revamp this thing in our sorority it was all about proving yourself with your Scholastics and then we’d have like a test on like philanthropy but most of them aren’t like that
Anyway we want to hear from you guys um we will be back next week of course but until then keep on taking your mind a mile thank you
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