There was this egg thing where you line up like seven or eight guys side by side they lay on their backs with their eyes closed and whoever is like the alpha in the room they crack an egg into that person’s mouth and then they pass the
Egg mouth to mouth until they get to the end of the line and then the last person has to swallow the egg so they’re like they’re all just making out passing this raw egg from yeah one another are they and they’re naked did you say that uh it didn’t say if they
Were naked okay i just feel like they could be Hey everybody welcome back to the podcast this is not so [ __ ] up a podcast about colts murder and other generally [ __ ] up stuff we are your hosts i’m ashley richards and i’m michelle moser i think that we should keep the announcement shorts but shorts um keep them about shorts
Yeah summer out there you guys if you don’t want your legs too hot uh we recommend shorts right now it’s great shorts weather so um that’s the weather report what the [ __ ] am i doing just why don’t you tell your story i would love to do we want to talk about the rating
Reviewing subscribing please do it do that it would help do that i mean please we love it we’d appreciate it i would really appreciate it because um if you if you like this new vibe we have going on um it would make my heart happy
To know that and it would bring me joy every day and if you get if you are a 150th written reviewer you’re going to get one free year of patreon at the 10 level which means you also get a patreon exclusive mug and a free copy of the newest and hottest
Trivia game on the market hexaquest the winner is gonna get one guaranteed all right so it just came out as both yeah check out our discord come get to know michelle and i our community is super poppin and you can find michelle’s sources which she’ll tell you
About in a second as well as bingo for today which is [ __ ] up which you’ll find out why in a second and links to our social media and apple where you can leave a review and all that good stuff at yes if you the podcast.com
Tell them about it tell me about it all about it i’m going to tell them i’m going to tell you i’m going to tell ever the world and tell the world uh so tell everyone you know please you guys tell everyone you know uh so yeah today i’m gonna be talking about
The dark side of greek life and uh you know a quick a quick little disclaimer at the top because you know i know i while making this episode and taking these notes like i generally look back on my greek experience positively but also even in kind of digging in deeper discovered some
Kind of [ __ ] up aspects of it that uh i think maybe through endocrine indoctrination i hadn’t maybe dealt with uh so thanks ash for making me deal with that you still have a lot of good friends from your time in the sorority which is like a great a great thing
So just know that if you were a part of greek life and as we kind of um trash on it today we’re not trashing on you or your experience we’re looking at how gross it is systematically and how it’s like oh it’s a little bit cold but anyways
We’ll just uh yeah so that’s what we’re gonna have you pull up [ __ ] up and go yeah because it’s a little cozy and a little murdery uh and so as a result kind of put them all together we got cults we got murder and we got generally
[ __ ] up stuff so for my sources um my two biggest sorcerers were two amazing podcasts one of them was snapped which we’ll be playing a promo for later in the episode so stay tuned for that and then the other one was a podcast called broken pledge so those are my two
Biggest otherwise i have a lot of articles and studies and those will all be linked in the blog at tsfuthepodcast.com for your viewing pleasure uh and with that shall we dive right into it whoa all right where were you in 1776 which is where two of the nation’s most important things happened the
Declaration of independence was signed and the first fraternity was formed coincidence i think i think not it always goes to the [ __ ] top it goes all the way to the [ __ ] every goddamn time that’s true uh so phi beta kappa was the first fraternity formed in 1776 at the college of william
Mary started as a secret society where students could get together and have discussions and things uh people want to talk about like religion and literature and philosophy and common interests and so fraternities were initially formed philosophizer so it’s like basically like a club for like rich white rich white men powerful yeah old
No not old because it was college no they were young just rich white dudes yeah because i mean not only like this was college in 1776 so the only people going to college in 1776 were probably rich white dudes okay no solid point i guess my point is
That um that’s like still kind of the demographic of um fraternities today so like not a lot has changed since good old declaration of independence was signed i mean in so many ways but yeah anywho for another day it’s another day another time so the uh yeah so fraternities kind of stayed that
Way as like actual places to discuss like important things um until 1825 when kappa alpha was formed at union college and it was the first what we would call social fraternity um and then social sororities followed later on in the mid-1800s and uh actually i think earlier you said frat sister
And oddly enough you are actually not incorrect because so the word fraternity comes from the latin word frater which means brother and sororities when they were first formed didn’t apparently no one wanted to look up the latin for sister i don’t know but they were like we’re we’re a fraternity for women
And in fact the sorority that i’m a part of is technically a fraternity for women so i’m technically a fraternity sister brother sisters her brother sister yeah uh it sounds like a weird like tlc spin-off of sister-wise brother sister this is we’re brother sisters yeah at some point uh in the later 1800s
They they were like oh [ __ ] there’s a latin word for sister we should use that and that word is sorer and uh now that’s why they’re called shorties so if you’re ever like i don’t know what those words mean that’s what they are boom by the mid 19th century the existence of
Greek life was spread so far that they started having lodges for social events these lodges were usually paid for by rich wealthy white man alumni and uh so they kind of became a spot where the fraternity brothers and sorority sisters could gather together um the reason that these became the like living
Hub that they are is because back in cornell university they had basically not enough houses for their students so people were like living with strangers in the neighborhoods and then they were like hey why don’t we all live together in this house we use and uh that kind of created this
Culture of like let’s all live together and have the same ideas in this little bubble michelle did you yeah did you know that i went to cornell did you really no it was just like last time we talked about how we were gonna try to do like a bunch of office
References and you know how andy always tells people he went to cornell like i was like immediately out of the office i was like god damn it i was trying to keep it to myself but i couldn’t i couldn’t you couldn’t it just burst out you know what yeah
Yeah i get it um so in cornell they were like living in their little frat brother sister community bubble yeah because there wasn’t enough housing and boom uh and yeah fun fact u.s fraternities collectively own roughly 3 billion dollars in real estate across 800 different colleges right now so there you go
Put that one in here it’s a money machine it’s a money machine uh i will put that in my hat put that in your hat and read it with your special rock if you didn’t listen to episode 101 i will well you missed that you missed
That inside joke oh you should go back you should go back and listen it was a good one yeah so greek life today is spread out yeah over 800 universities across the us and canada these organizations um are part of the national just us and canada
Just us and canada or at least i mean at least the fraternal system as we know it i don’t know if like i don’t know if europe has any but like the fraternity system that we think of is u.s canada like the i don’t know yes no no means anal fraternity system that
We think of those ones that’s an actual sign hung up on a sheet that’s a real thing real talk hashtag real real chant um or uh well i’ll get to it i’ll get to it uh okay so there uh yeah the national infra interfraternity conference the nic represents 66 men’s groups and the
National panhellenic conference and pc represents 26 women’s groups so a lot more frats and sororities apparently so surprised yeah so we start getting into some of the uh some of the constructs of the culture of greek life that uh make it a little [ __ ] up and we start with the classism
So as a lot of you know um you do have to pay dues to be a part of greek life those vary based on the sorority the fraternity of the university the housing situation um but these places are apparently just like machines for making um making powerful leaders
According to statistics from the new jersey institute of technology 76 of us senators and congressmen are former members of greek life and 85 of fortune 500 ceos are former members of greek life so super doesn’t surprise me because when we get sent into some of the like sexual assault assault stats
Of fraternities and just like i don’t know the kind of person that i think that you have to be to be like i want to torture these people for like six months or however long like i’m willing to get tortured for like six months or what
However long so that i can do it to people for the rest of the time that i’m here like what the [ __ ] like that’s like weird like because you know that’s some people’s mentality well i mean yeah like a lot of people are just like [ __ ] yeah i can’t wait to like
Torture the rushies or whatever the new pledges yeah yeah definitely there’s also a very like appearance-based um like segregation or like appearance-based like preference in the system so thinking about rush for example basically like it’s three nights of you showing up as a as a potential new member or a russian
To these houses and like the girls are you get a you get i think 15 minutes maybe of actual talk time to represent yourself and have people decide if they want you in their sorority uh and then they vote on you and you rank the sororities and then you get
Matched if they liked you and if you liked them and a lot of that tends to come down to a very appearance base because how much do you get to know somebody in 15 minutes so it tends to create this culture of disparity that favors the conventionally pretty um because
The more pretty girls you have in your sorority and the more like cool hot party dudes like that’s if that’s the culture that you’re trying to create in your organization um then that is what you’re going to be looking for and like i thought it was really interesting
That how loose he said in her podcast snapped like what made something a top-tier sorority was basically if like the coolest frat like wanted to [ __ ] that sorority yeah so like that that’s what makes a sorority top tier not because like they do the most um uh what is it called philanthropy yeah
Or that or because because they throw the sickest parties right because it’s the frats that throw the parties it’s like what makes you top tier means that you’re hot enough to be in the sorority that um like the frat dudes want to [ __ ] yeah and i’m glad you called the party
Thing out too because i don’t think a lot of people know that sorority houses actually can’t have parties um i don’t know what it is about the i don’t know if it’s just like in the charter or what so it’s that’s kind of why like a lot of fraternities and sororities kind of
Flock together because you can’t have um you can’t have alcohol on a like charter house property so there’s another little fun but the the frats can just have like all day yeah yeah they can do whatever they want so let’s just like point that out there right now because look like we’re not
Even trying to sister blame like because the problem here is the fraternities because on the behalf of the frats the sorority sisters or pledges are commodifying and objectifying each other yeah it’s and it’s super shitty so like i spent one of my uh one of my formal
Recruitment years as what they call a rogama or recruitment guide so you basically get a group of girls who are rushing and you take them through the whole rush process and it sucks when you have a girl who has her heart set on joining greek life and then
She doesn’t end up getting asked back to any of the sororities and you have to deal it because it’s it’s not a fair system you can essentially it’s like hi so unfortunately you’re not cool or pretty you’re not cool enough to be a part of any of our clubs yeah that is sad
It’s so so sad it’s super heartbreaking because you get some girls who get passed back to every house that they want to go to and then you get some girls who the first night they go and then they don’t get ass back anywhere and yeah i had to like
Call girls who cried on the phone to me because they were so sad like you have a lovely personality if that helps they’re like it got it i know it doesn’t help thanks for trying so um yeah so aside from just like appearance-based classism um there’s
Also a huge culture of racism in greek life uh so until the mid to late 20th century many fraternities and sororities were segregated um initially it was kind of by like actual law of segregation of schools but then when they when schools became desegregated a lot of greek letter
Societies still wanted to keep the uh keep the look of like white male christian students and so it became kind of a part of the organization culture as a whole so it’s like they basically exclude or they basically started including racially exclusionary policies into their constitutions and that became their oh just straight
Up like in the rule books like just like color need not apply also you need to pay your dues so yeah white and okay but poor mm-hmm yeah then yeah yeah so ew you’re poor this did lead to uh black students making their own space uh and groups and
So that led to the nine historically black greek letter organizations or bglos that make up the national panhellenic council um and they’re referred to as the divine nine so you can see that uh yeah it was kind of the the we need our own space and we need our own
Group and uh social opportunities so if you’re not gonna listen to your group we will make our own um and that’s where you see the divine nine where meanwhile uh this was something fun that i learned in my research apparently fraternities uh were what laid the foundation for the formation of the kkk
Turns out that’s a bunch of dudes right yeah so when they were performing we’re in a club when the kkk was formed it was they patterned it after a pre previously prominent college fraternity called kuklos adelphon they basically took the basic rituals of the fraternity and then made a few
Changes um they put took the first part of the name kuklos which is greek for circle or band and they altered it slightly to ku klux and then they added clan for alliterative appeal kkk it just rolls off the tongue kind of you know yeah so thus the ku klux klan was born
Nice gross that’s real huh yeah i wish it got like lighter and more fun from here but we’re that was like the first stepping stone down a tunnel of ick that i’m going to take you down yeah do you want to take the sexual assault boat into the tunnel of ick yeah yeah
Um let’s go so let’s go there so um i included some dates on these studies because i want to make sure it’s super transparent one of the studies that you’ll see all over the place is that fraternity men are three times more likely to commit rape than other men on college
Campuses so that is a study i know right that is a study that’ll be linked on the blog um it was published in 2007 i’m not a scientist so i don’t know how long studies are good for but i wanted to be super clear about like where that came that’s changed over the
Last 13 years i haven’t been keeping like a close watch on actually it wasn’t like 10 years ago i don’t like math isn’t my thing why don’t you i know david [ __ ] off about that but like okay rude calling sorry i didn’t mean to be rude a different number [Laughter] alert nerd
Alert that’s me i was nerd alerting myself okay uh okay so uh it was the third study showing that fraternity men are three times more likely to rape so there’s that that is also three does that no no it’s not a multiplication factor no never mind it’s just gonna say a number
Just ignore me keep going keep rolling carry on my wayward son yes my wayward daughter yeah yeah yeah um also i didn’t realize this until i was doing this research that um apparently research suggests that approximately one in four women experience attempted or completed sexual assault during their
Time at college though actually honestly that tracks and honestly i’m actually surprised it’s it’s only one in four because college so you’re already um like you already have a 25 chance of like getting raped or somebody trying to rape you if you go to college and then that triples if you
Enter a sorority well not exactly but if if so facto if you’re in a sorority mostly hanging out with frat bros like you actually have a number on that thing so so if yeah so one in four women just by virtue of being at college um will experience attempted or completed sexual assault
And sorority women were almost 1.5 times more likely to experience sexual assault with exposure to unwanted sexual contact i.e non-penetrative assault um making up part of that as well so that includes like rape but also just like i don’t know a non-penetrative assault it’s gross it’s not sexual harassment and like you know
Touch that was on um not with consent stuff yep yeah um men and also interesting though men and women in greek life experience more sexual harassment than non-members you know what though would you possibly think that it’s the men sexually harassing the other men during haiti i mean
They do a lot of makes sense like you know uh i guess like homo or somewhat homoerotic uh like hazing rituals like one called the elephant that one group does okay okay yeah so yeah i wonder i just wonder if if that’s who’s doing it if it’s the men doing it to everybody
We yeah it didn’t i’m not saying i’m not saying women can’t rape men but of course they can yeah yeah of course they can but of course i’m just saying like i would not be surprised if some of that sexual harassment or assault that um fraternity brothers reported was by other fraternity brothers
Yeah like weird [ __ ] up hazing rituals or something it very well could be so yeah in fact it says fraternity men were more than three times more likely to report non-consensual sexual contact than non-fraternity men so just a good note that um victimization comes in different gender and sexual orientation
Representation that and that forks forced sexual contact is never okay no matter who you are um binge drinking well while also prevalent in college um apparently male fraternity members had uh who lived in fraternity houses during college had the highest levels of binge drinking and marijuana use relative to
Non-members and non-students in young adulthood and that actually continued into adulthood at age 40 or at age 35 45 of fraternity members who had lived in-house reported alcohol use disorder all also known as alcoholism oh wow yeah i mean because heavy drinking is such a big part of greek life
And such a um leading cause of death in greek life which i know you’ll see i know there’s so much stuff to get into there’s so much though there’s so much um there’s also and we talked about this a little bit earlier the kind of commodifying and sexualizing women as a
Part of greek culture so for example some of the super fun nicknames for the sorority houses that like i’m ashamed to say not only did the fraternity brothers call these houses this but also like the sorority sisters called the other houses this so it makes me feel kind of
Icky that i participated in some of this like gross name calling but delta zetas we called easy dc’s easy dz’s alpha fee was all for free kyomego is kai ho mega that one was not incredibly inventive uh akio was a kai ho and then fun fact so at least on our
Campus um there were two sororities that were deemed to have the um quote unquote fat girls uh which like makes me upset because my friends were beautiful humans but like men are gross sometimes a lot of times so fat fat girl sorority right yeah i’ve seen pictures of you in
College you weren’t fat no like we were we were not we just you just weren’t like anorexic then we just had to like yeah we like weren’t all yeah and i don’t know it’s just honestly it’s gross that like even any of this is a thing that people call people
But ao pi they called ada pie and pi beta 5 that was you you were an ad that’s not us that was the other one and then mine was pi beta phi which they called pi burger fry so that is all [ __ ] delicious okay all everything listed there so 10
Out of 10. i would eat burgers fries and pies any day of the week yeah and feel no shame about it right now yeah um and then i was trying to think of if any fraternities had any nicknames and the only one that i could remember or like
Come up with in my brain was uh lambda chi alpha which they called ramda guy alpha so also homophobia cool cool so the sororities all get nice derogatory nicknames but the frats just get to make the nicknames yeah i couldn’t think of any others other than other than that one for a fraternity
Um also a lot of sororities participated in what they called serenades which is basically where you take your group of new members so all your little pledges and they’d you’d basically take popular songs and rewrite the words to be sexual and talk about all the things that you would do
To the frat guys and you’d make up sexy dances and then they paraded you around to the different frat houses and you performed the serenades for their houses especially their pledges and that was like a thing that you did did you do that um my reader no shame i’m just like curious
Well because that’s amazing right and you’re your sorority was not allowed to haze was super we were super strict about hazing but um it definitely happened on our campus and hazing is very common in a lot of sororities yeah um yeah and there are a lot of sororities
Trying to crack down on it so like if you’re listening and you’re like well we couldn’t do that because we didn’t haze like i get it a lot of sororities were very strict about hazing and also a lot of them weren’t and so i i know for a fact that i have
Seen sororities that have done serenades at our campus so right and the um podcast that michelle mentioned at the top snapped by lucy taylor amazing um we’re actually going to be interviewing lucy at some point coming up here and she shares about her experience in a sorority and um when she got
Admitted as a member um basically they were told or i guess probably when she was a pledge too i don’t i don’t know but they were told that when they went to the frat parties they were quote expected to show the guys a good time which meant be [ __ ] but not too [ __ ]
Yeah so like [ __ ] that but like maybe don’t be a [ __ ] about it we love the devil we love a double standard so yeah not only were you expected to in that situation like sexually please these [ __ ] gross frat dudes but you are also like told not to
Be a [ __ ] [ __ ] about it yeah how does that don’t be don’t be a [ __ ] about it don’t don’t be all [ __ ] about being asleep like dog what it’s it’s a very fine like you’re [ __ ] if you do [ __ ] if you don’t kind of lie to balance it seems
Well speaking of the eb [ __ ] but don’t be a [ __ ] um some of the party themes were also very directed at like get girls to wear nothing to our houses so some of the ones that i remembered were ceos and secretary hoes is a pretty popular theme and you were like
[ __ ] yeah let’s get let’s get it girls okay let’s go i’m not gonna lie i’ve i [ __ ] loved a theme party i did yeah you were like i’m gonna go buy a pinch a pinstripe skirt i’m gonna get my hoe on yeah yep i mean there’s no i feel like i
Can’t even blame that on like sorority culture because that’s just like halloween yeah halloween’s everybody’s night to like dress up as anything or anyone that they want and like the [ __ ] version of it you know my my first sorority halloween i posted pictures on facebook and i told
My mom not to let my dad look at my facebook page i was like i don’t want him to see me like this i don’t want him to see me in this light i don’t want him to know that i wore those shorts in that crop top oh yeah uh also lingerie parties
So again men can just wear like boxer shorts and women are in literal under like panties and bras and yeah corsets and things um oh god anything that close every week every week basically every it was a rotation of who’s having the coolest party this weekend what outfits are we gonna go by
And yeah it was it was halloween every week and if you were not a fraternity fraternity member and you wanted to come to one of these parties you literally brought women like they were access tokens you could not show up all right but you gotta bring at least three checks yeah
If you want to dig for every three vaginas if you just showed up as a as a non-member dude you couldn’t get in but if you brought girls then okay if you’re like a hot non-sorority girl can you go yeah okay but you’re like like you know you know solid chance of getting
Sexually assaulted but you can go but you can go what if you’re like not hot though and you’re not a sorority girl i mean i’ve never seen them they like turn you away at the door i’ve never seen anyone get turned away there’s like sometimes they’d have a
Door guy because they had to like pretend that they were checking ids and only letting people in that were over 21 and like they weren’t but like they had to pretend like in case the cops came so they’d usually have one of the pledges sit outside at a table and like
Guard the door i’ve never seen anybody get turned away but i mean i’m not saying it’s never happened it’s very possible doorman you’re just a doorman doorman doorman yeah so that for my you know that kind of brings i know you’ve mentioned lucy a couple times um and lucy’s experience on
Snapped please give that pod a listen that’ll actually be our next our next ad break but yeah lucy’s story she talks about her rush experience and what it was like to rush top tier sororities um as well as the experience of getting snapped which was a thing where they would find
Inappropriate pictures on your social media and then like comment snap on it and it was basically secret code to tell you that like this picture doesn’t represent the sorority so you need to take it down it stood for so not i can’t remember if she names her
Sorority or not so i’m not going to name it but it stood first so not ap um well now everyone i mean not everyone i guess if you’re in greek life you would know but would people know if they’re in greek life i would know i’d 100 now
Okay also if you google lucy taylor literally the first thing that pops up is lucy taylor and then her sorority name so okay okay well so then fine yeah so um snapped stood for so not alpha fee so it’s like your sisters would go like publicly shame you on social media if they
You did something like they deemed appropriate which in her case was it was like a picture of her in a bikini it’s like um you’re being too [ __ ] like you’re not toeing the [ __ ] line fine enough how is a bikini picture like [ __ ] i’m sorry yeah and yet she probably was dragged to
A like a lingerie party or some other you go there [ __ ] like instagram right now and it’s like first traps that’s what i was trying to say oh it’s a bunch of like low-key thirst trap pictures it’s like oh we’re being [ __ ] but ah super [ __ ] but i
Guess a bathing suit is just like overtly [ __ ] unless you wear it at night over a party to a party to a beach party oh my god there was a frat house that would fill their basement with sand every year and throw a giant beach party and then i’m
Pretty sure the pledges had to clean it up afterwards that sounds really unsanitary like oh it’s disgusting zero out of ten but it was fun yeah and i’ll let you continue but yeah so she also talks about the pressure that she experienced to have sex and about getting raped and the
Response from her sisters essentially being kind of like a don’t tell anybody about this and um and then when she well i don’t want to spoil the ending i don’t spoil the ending of the pod lucy’s experience um was really interesting to listen to because i noticed even though my experience was not
Not as maybe intense as hers was um there were some things that i did kind of relate to and i will say you know like i said at the top like my closest friends back home are still the girls that i knew in the sorority so like i do
Attribute my time to like giving me my like dearest lifelong friends so but that doesn’t mean that like i didn’t experience some shitty things i had kind of my own snapped experience where i came home from class one day and three of my sisters were sitting in our living
Room uh at my apartment not the sorority house at my apartment and um because one of them was my roommate at the time and so it was to intervention me because apparently when i drank at frat houses i got too loud and flirtatious and they didn’t like that so they had an
Intervention for me that is so [ __ ] cold yeah it was i was like are you [ __ ] like are you kidding me like i didn’t like do anything you’re not really feeling your personality you could just tone it down a little bit that would be great yeah i’m like no wonder i have so
Much anxiety about if i’m being too loud and obnoxious like it goes right because you were like [ __ ] right and then you’re all like having to be self-conscious about like oh am i am i being wow am i being too much am i being flirtatious as [ __ ] yeah and like
I’ll depend and all this self-doubt yeah that’s [ __ ] it was it was not not a supportive sister atmosphere uh in that moment and eventually i chose to leave because um a sister and i got into what was what started as a small fight with a boy a fight over a boy um
And turned into her basically rallying as many of our sisters against me as she possibly could it became this very toxic divided atmosphere and so i ended up um at that point i’d been in the sorority long enough that i could go what we call undergraduate alum so i was going into my
Fifth year of college my victory lap if you will and i was eligible to become an alumna even though i was um still in college so i opted for that because um yeah it was basically like a team michelle versus team this other girl and um i didn’t want to deal with
That [ __ ] i was too old at that point to handle the girl drama are you ready to talk about hazing okay wait so oh yeah yeah you got like essentially kicked out of your sorority because like a bunch of the [ __ ] ganged up on you yeah it was like
I don’t know i had my friends she had her friends and it honestly became such an anxiety-inducing atmosphere for me that i was like this is stupid i’m over it like i don’t know and is either of you with that guy today no no he’s married he has two or three kids
I think with another sister that’d be wild is it with a sorority sister okay oh it’s not um it’s funny though i don’t want to say his name because we still follow each other on socials and so i’m like if he did listen to this it’d
Be hilarious that he he was like that was me i broke that house up yeah you hey he got me out of the cult whether he realized it or not yes which um [ __ ] if you guys have listened to the first couple episodes then we’ve probably mentioned that michelle’s
Been in two cults this one and then what was it the other one uh pentecostal christian cult yeah and then she just [ __ ] like drops a bomb on me today that she was also like a mary kay rep in college i’m like dude how did you just
Like casually leave out the third cult like oh i just messed up one of those faces the cold face they’re just like that [ __ ] looks like a sucker get her get her get her she’ll definitely definitely do this she’ll definitely give us her money she’ll definitely buy the whole startup makeup kit
Yeah be your own boss full-time money for part-time hours absolutely episode oh girl last for like a month or six months i don’t know all right let’s talk about hazing because it’s awful and yeah we’re trying to get right into it kind of like well it’s all the worst but it’s kind of
The worst it’s kind of it’s a lot the worse so pretty much what happened was you know fraternities and sororities had these traditions that were based on philosophy and jewish and christian scriptures and military codes of honor they kind of just like picked and chose like a bunch of different things and
They were like [ __ ] we’ll take a little bit of this jewish and christian scripture military code philosophy a little bit of play-doh uh-huh that’s you can deal with it you can deal with that that’s like you can go with this or you can go with that
You can go with plato or you can go with nature i don’t know any other philosopher’s name socrates that’s all i got for you people stop like giving a [ __ ] about the traditions themselves and like where they came from and so a lot of people think that’s how
Hazing started and they’re like all right you’re not going to be bound into brotherhood because of these traditions then we’re going to bind you with like putting you through horrible [ __ ] we’re just going to torture you instead yeah so it started with like menial chores and errands like go buy me cigarettes
Clean the house um and then it turned into punishment if those things weren’t done and then it escalates to escalates i don’t know if that’s in [ __ ] up bingo but escalation to stunts jokes and psychological and physical discomfort and eventually became seen as a rite of passage um at the classic
I had to do it so you should too and it was uh like propagated as like this is how we build brotherhood um mutual torture mutual torture um so fun fun little fact that i kind of tagged in here so you know that blood is thicker than water
Saying and how people always think it means that like family over everything yeah so the actual whole saying is the blood of the battlefield is thicker than the water of the womb and it actually originally meant the exact opposite and that like people who go through [ __ ] together
Are have a tighter bond than family fun fact i actually believe that but i mean it’s like worded really gross and i don’t like the way that they’re using the concept no so the owner of the womb so hazing doesn’t just exist in greek life uh there is at least one u.s school
Club or organization hazing death um there’s been one every year from 1959 to 2021 and um this there will probably be one this year there just hadn’t been one in the first semester of 2022. so that we know of that we know yeah that was reported i mean think of how many of
Those really rich prestigious universities will pay to get that [ __ ] covered up yeah absolutely universities will grow especially with football teams because like that’s usually like their [ __ ] pride and joy and [ __ ] but they’ll often go great lengths to cover this kind of [ __ ] up so that it doesn’t tarnish
Their [ __ ] school’s name or their football team’s name or so would you say it goes all the way to the top um yeah did you get bingo oh oh no okay i was like oh my god how rude like what a good way to like run ruin your
Bingo okay you didn’t go no okay i don’t even think that’s on the i don’t even know that’s going all the way to the top oh but it should be i know it i absolutely think it goes all the way top by the way my bingo board is just like
Ping pong ting ting ah good good [ __ ] up yeah i’m so glad so [ __ ] up bingo was the right choice excellent all right um so i’m going to give you a couple of examples of like high level hazing and then we’ll talk about colin wyan to end his hazing death uh as kind
Of our big story and we’ll wrap it up because we’re there’s a lot of [ __ ] up stuff to talk about here on the sorority end there was a sorority at indiana university where they’d make their pledges stand on top of dryers and they’d put the dryer on the cycle they’d
Be the girls would be wearing their bikinis and uh any part that jiggled they’d circle and if you got too many circles you got kicked out oh my god gross dude everybody’s [ __ ] [ __ ] jiggles oh my god especially on top of the dryer there was this egg thing where you line
Up like seven or eight guys side by side they lay on their backs with their eyes closed and whoever is like the alpha in the room they crack an egg into that person’s mouth and then they pass the egg mouth to mouth until they get to the
End of the line and then the last person has to swallow the egg okay how is that not like [ __ ] sexual it’s a lot of so so they’re like they’re all just making out passing this raw egg from yeah one another mm-hmm are they and they’re naked did you say
That uh it didn’t say if they were naked okay i just feel like they could be you’re like i just want to insert that in my brain i just think they are hey listeners if any of you have done the egg thing let us know they’re not going to that’s embarrassing they’re not
Going to that’s it yeah um and what you mentioned earlier what the [ __ ] yeah it was that was that one we needed a light-hearted moment and like i mean that one’s awful but like of all the things i’m going to talk about that one’s the most like lighthearted of the
Hazing because it’s just like so weird gross it’s so good it’s like why yeah and then the elephant walk which you alluded to earlier where they have the pledges stand in a single file line naked and they are expect to walk in a line with their hands underneath and through the legs
Of the person standing in front of them and grab their penises so it looks like elephants when they lose their blindness wait this is a hard time saying penis plutus uh so like when elephants walk with their trunks and tails looped that’s what this was supposed to replicate
That’s why it’s called an elephant walk and that’s that’s how you form solid brotherly bonds for life aha that’s it those how you doing circle jerk together stay in brotherhood together forever i couldn’t substantiate this anywhere on the internet but they rumored that to get initiated in kyomega you had to like
Lay in a coffin for like a certain amount of time with an owl like a taxidermied owl and then you were supposed to like emerge reborn and as a sorority sister i just feel like they probably use like isolation and all these other weird kind of like psychological torture tactics
Probably in a lot of the i saw one about like people being forced to walk around alone in like pitch black rooms for a while um yeah just like they’re just like psychologically [ __ ] with people sexually [ __ ] with people like it’s like breaking you down so that you
Yeah which is what the military does so it doesn’t you know the military like i could never be in the military because if somebody was like yelling this far from my face i would just like instantly start sobbing but yeah their whole thing is like to like break you
Down and then like build you back up and to like the man they want you to be and so that doesn’t surprise me yeah it was bad um so some quick touches on deaths before we end in our final story all right so at penn state university there was a
Pledge of a fraternity who died after falling down the stairs of his fraternity house the brothers quote unquote left him to recuperate and then discovered him dead the next morning they’re like sleep it off he’s just gotta sleep it off he’s gonna sleep it up he’ll be fine yeah they’re on trial
For a manslaughter and aggravated assault so thank god aggravated assault because they forced him to drink so much probably i’d i don’t know okay that was a short paragraph in dartmouth there was a girl who uh she was pledging a sorority they put her in a car drove
Her for 15 minutes while making her chug alcohol and take shots and then they dumped her in the woods uh she woke up in the icu with bruises cuts two broken teeth she was intubated and restrained and her blood alcohol content was a .399 0.4 is when you go into a coma and
Probably die wait this was um sorority hazing sorority hazing she has no idea what happened that night she has no memory because obviously she had like 0.399 blood alcohol content were gone two of her teeth were broken and she didn’t call it hazing because she was pressured not to refer to it as
Hazing because her sisters didn’t want the chapter to get shut down so she still wanted to join the sorority and i’m sure she did because gotta keep her mouth shut i [ __ ] hope so at that point um and then this one oh this one broke
My heart i mean they all broke like all of this broke my heart but this one like i have such a trigger warning for suicide skip ahead um skip ahead like a minute if that is a trigger for you um there was a student at alfred university who committed suicide um
After he was beaten for revealing hazing traditions um his name was ben klein um so he turned his chapter in for what he considered hazing and he was later found dead in a creek near the fraternity house no they didn’t they beat him for for turning in the frat and that he
Committed suicide oh probably because they kept [ __ ] they were probably like bullying him too absolutely um and it says rather than search for him with rescuers because he was missing um the fraternity members just drank on their porch so this person who was supposed to be their brother
Um so yeah that one was hard for me to read okay yeah um so we’re gonna end with the story of colin wyant this is the story that broken pledge focuses on this story is complicated because colin was both accused of sexual assault and he also is the victim
Of the bigger story here so know that like this is going to be difficult to talk about because he is both he is both victims of sexual assault yeah and a victim but uh colin grew up in the small city of dublin ohio his parents were both involved in greek
Life at ohio university and so he was he had kind of grown up like idolizing and dreaming of eventually going to ou and joining greek life and in fall of 2018 he decided to pledge sigma pi and there is a text to his ex-girlfriend where he said i’m going to rush the
Hardest frat they have the hardest hazing but i’m a do it to give you a little picture of what sigma pi was like they had one of those big sheet banners hanging out of their house during welcome week that said we can’t fist your personality winners ew
Yeah uh colin was popular with the group they made him pledge president but when his parents came to visit him for the first time while he was pledging they noticed he was tired he seemed distracted he was constantly looking at his phone they were really looking forward to
Going to the house meeting his brothers because remember they had both been in greek life so they had like really fond memories of it and they said that the brothers weren’t very welcoming that the house wasn’t really holding any activities for the parents even though it was parents weekend and
They thought this was super weird so like we mentioned earlier at first the hazing kind of started with doing errands cigarette runs cleaning the frat house cleaning the bars that the brothers worked at and now mind you this is like minor stuff but also these were things where they’d be doing this stuff
Until two three in the morning and then they’d have to go to their 8am classes so these kids were exhausted which sleep deprivation hey that’s right pretty culty that’s a culty one yeah yeah that’s a culty thing colin was really excited because he got picked to go on the fraternities trip to
Gatlinburg so this wasn’t something that most pledges got to do and this was where he started telling his friends and family and ex-girlfriend that like things were getting kind of bad so at one point he had texted his ex-girlfriend that he so he was still pretty close with her they exchanged
Messages quite a bit and he texted her saying that he was being being given cocaine alcohol and being beaten with hands and belts he told her that he was all bruised and cut up he also he was being given cocaine like they were making him like they were
Taking yeah or take it yeah i mean i don’t know how like forceful it was versus like hey do you want some coke sure um but nonetheless this is not something that he was it sounds like actively pursuing it was like here take this cocaine mm-hmm
So he told his brother that he was scared he told him that he was being tortured and abused he actually cried his actual brother yeah his actual brother yes sorry he has a real brother he told his actual brother that he was being tortured and abused and cried yeah and he cried to
Him and he told him i just have to make it to december when i become an active because once you’re an active then you don’t get hazed anymore then you can do it to other people then you get to hate other people and at a homecoming party they were the
Fraternity was serving jungle juice which if you’re not familiar is usually just like a mix of boozes whatever’s in the house and like juice they just try to make it taste good and get you really drunk and apparently sigma pie was also known for adding xanax to their jungle juice
Ew and to make date rape a little bit easier because mixing alcohol and xanaxes that’s why that’s good it’s to [ __ ] make rape easier easier because then the girls pass out they’re just passed out and don’t remember anything well speaking like hey welcome ladies can i get you a glass of jungle juice
Yeah you [ __ ] asses so speaking of passing out and not remembering anything there was a young woman at the party who lived about a mile away and colin was nominated by the fraternity to walk her home she woke up the next day to walk her home nominated to walk her home that sounds
Very gentlemanly yeah colin um such and such here is looking a little intoxicated we nominate you to get her home safely yeah [ __ ] right i would not be surprised if part of their like hazing ritual wasn’t to like [ __ ] rape somebody that comes from no place
Of fact i didn’t read that anywhere i just i just it’s just not a good look at all no it’s not a good look because he walks right here right he walks her home and yeah she wakes up the next morning doesn’t remember the night before
She finds two used condoms in her dorm room and her clothes scattered all over and she had text from an unknown number which turned out to be colin she asks if he had sex with her and he says i’m pretty sure she ended up saying that it was rape
Where colin said it was consensual and the police were called in and they were investigating it and while that happened colin was barred from formal pledge activities so he was basically told you can still hang out at the house with the brothers during like non-fraternity time but while this investigation is happening we
Can’t have you as an actual pledge we don’t want you like giving us a bad look a bad name that’s a bad luck yeah so we get to the night of november 18th of 2018 colin came to the house that was it was basically open to hang out in there was no formal
Activities and so he came over it was shortly after 1am and the group was doing whippets which if you don’t know what a whip it is apparently it is the gas that pushes like whipped cream out i think that’s why they call it a whip nitrogen night yeah nitrous nitrous oxide okay
Yeah i was gonna say don’t quote me on yeah i think that’s just natured and oxygen mixed together but scientists hit us up on the discord if we’re wrong after doing some whippets we don’t know how many uh several who knows be safe kids don’t just inhale substances
Um so at 2 40 a.m colin was noticeably having trouble breathing now one of the fraternity members who was with colin did not call 9-1-1 until about 2 50 so like 10 minutes later initially there were reports that he had called the fraternity president to ask him if he should call 9-1-1
Uh later on it came to it there became more evidence that he may have been walking around the house trying to get help but nevertheless he didn’t call 9-1-1 right away and those minutes could have made the difference in colin surviving or not so yeah yeah either way even if you think you’re
Interested it would not surprise me if he called the president first to see what we should do because yeah i know like in lucy’s situation like it’s not like it was dealt with through the authorities it was like dealt with through the [ __ ] sorority association and they literally sent like
Minions that were basically lucy’s like equals in like age and whatnot to um to like deal with her yeah so it’s like i think this board is the whole thing cult like cruelty like it’s like it stays very internal either way he should have called 911
Right away he did not um when he did call 9-1-1 the they were like we’ll bring him outside so he’s outside when you get there that wasn’t to make it easier it’s because they had whip-it cans everywhere and they didn’t want the police to see them the 911 operator was like don’t do
That it’s it’s really cold keep him inside they’ll be there soon just leave him just leave him don’t drag him around uh so one of the brothers was doing cpr oh my god also just like it’s someone’s life so maybe be okay with the consequences of your actions to save somebody’s life no
No don’t be ridiculous michelle it’s crazy the paramedics arrived within minutes but when they hooked him up to the monitor he was still alive but he was apparently barely alive because it was a flat line on the monitor he ended up dying at the hospital shortly after 3 a.m due to
Asphyxiation from nitrous oxide and there were questions of like did he have other things in his system his blood alcohol content was only a 0.06 and there were trace amounts of marijuana um no other drugs in his system so i bet it was the marijuana oh god it’ll get you every time
Every time so the cops came to the parents house in the middle of the night and that listening to that was heartbreaking because the mom basically she saw the two cops at first she thought that they’d left their garage door open and then she saw the police chaplain in plain clothes and
Immediately she started asking who is it which of my children is it because she knew that one of her children must be dead and that’s why they were there um yeah that’s got to be the worst [ __ ] thing yeah in the world so in the i lit i can’t even imagine
After the death um a group of the men gathered together at the an upperclassman’s house and you know a lot of them were very sad they were consoling each other crying again colin was generally popular among um among the fraternity but very shortly after the investigation began but either so even if you’re
Popular you get literally tortured and abused to death yeah absolutely so yeah this is a popular popular guy and this happened and even with that after the investigation started the narrative that sigma pi was perpetuating about colin’s death started to change so december 6 the investigation began and the
Narrative that sigma pi was spreading was that colin was a rapist on multiple drugs who would never have even been invited to return to sigma pi and even if he was invited he would have had to start rushing all over again so they went from
You know oh well just like don’t do any formal activities while they’re investigating to like dead actually that dude was a [ __ ] rapist apparently after um after this happened they also gathered everybody together for like an emergency meeting to hurry up and uh initiate all of the
Pledges so that they could kind of hold them accountable to not telling their secrets but in the interviews that police had with the pledges during the investigation they revealed that in their time as pledges they were screamed at like that face-to-face drill sergeant-style streaming yeah they were forced to exercise to
Exhaustion they had hot hot sauce poured on them and they were made to play like football tackle football in their underwear inside with hot sauce on them um and one of the pledges had actually slipped and yeah he’d actually slipped and hit his head during this football game and
Needed eight staples in his head they had to eat onions oh this was um this is where they had to walk around in a dark room for like hours on end they had eggs thrown at them yeah dude yeah like the dark is scary it’s scary oh i would hate it with your
Mind it does that’s why solitary confinement’s so horrible so on trial these frat members were very competitive and agitated um and they basically tried to disassociate colin from the fraternity but the police had asked for a list of all fraternity members and rather than leaving cullen off of
That list they listed him as pledge deceased and so because of that they were able to that was kind of the nail in the coffin for tying colin to the fraternity and being able to like punish the fraternity as a whole so essentially the men who were involved well sigma pi
Itself as the fraternity was found in violation of 10 out of the 11 rules for student conduct and they were permanently expelled from campus and that also led to an overall overall investigation from ohio university into all of their greek life and they ended up permanently removing i think six of
Their frat houses the in less than 24 hours after sigma pi got kicked off of campus a sigma pi pledge at university of buffalo died his name was sebastian serafin bazan and he was being hazed and had trouble breathing so he was being forced to exercise to exhaustion he went into
Cardiac arrest members carried him out of the house because they thought quote unquote fresh air might help and all of them fled except one until paramedics arrived yeah and then i mean a lot of the dr a lot of the deaths have to do with um pledges just getting forced to drink
So much [ __ ] alcohol that they literally just die of alcohol poisoning that’s just like a tale as old as time and i do want to note that you know like michelle said um it’s a little bit it’s a little bit of a tricky story because of the fact
That he was a perpetrator and a victim but i think something to note is that um you know michelle and i have been talking about this a lot over the past couple weeks and michelle you told me that it’s kind of like a chicken or the egg
Thing like it’s like they it’s like are men who are attracted to fraternities like the men who are three times more likely to rape or does being in a fraternity turn you into the type of man who’s three times more likely to rape like which one is it i
Just want to say that i think that regardless of your nature being in that environment is going to encourage you to at least think that sexual assault is okay if not like pretty [ __ ] cool it’s like the lord of the flies thing like you get a bunch of people who
If there’s a little inkling of something and then that mob mentality breaks out and suddenly it’s it’s it becomes the social norm and it’s suddenly much more okay the fraternity president the guy who bought the whippets and the guy who eventually called 9-1-1 but was delayed
In calling him all three of those men were charged with different counts of you know permitting drug use hazing obstruction of justice things like that the interesting thing is that in ohio so only 44 states have any laws against hazing at all and in some of those
States the laws are a misdemeanor that’s equivalent to like some unpaid parking tickets so after all of this most of them got a negligible number of days in jail and that was about it but the uh so colin’s family are now strong activists against hazing his mom even
Has done a ted talk about the dangers of hazing and something that i did find if we want to kind of close the story out on a on a slightly up note no let’s just let’s head out on a bummer i think that’s always the way to go just
Leaving shitty on a really shitty note i’m just kidding i was like oh okay okay no oh no no positivity um no please do so please do end on the light okay i would love that all right so colin’s family every year on his birthday they all go out and do a good
Deed in his name and then they come back and have family dinner together and talk about what they did so some of the things that they’ve done are buy basketballs for inner city schools um find their favorite restaurants and like overstuff the tip jar just you know little things that they
Can do to kind of take what was a really shitty situation and make some good out of it and that’s the [ __ ] up side of greek life and the story of the hazing death of colin wyant yeah that was just indeed that was a it was a lot
To uh there were ups there were downs we were about to unpack a lot to digest you know yeah we laughed we cried we threw open our mouths a little bit did you cry don’t know i feel like you almost cried yeah you know what honestly you’re
Talking about you cried you almost cried i almost cried i just saw you crying i saw you and so did all our patrons who are watching right now um and i’m just an evil person so i didn’t i just laughed no but um i actually feel so [ __ ]
Strongly about this topic um because it’s tails all this time goes all the way to the top as always you know [ __ ] [ __ ] i mean tail as old as this nation so really yeah i mean 1776 was when phi beta kappa was formed so literally so uh why don’t
You [ __ ] wrap this [ __ ] up jesus wrap it up excellent all right so that’s our story and ash is sticking to it we are sick i mean i’ve gotta because it’s recorded now it’s out there um so check the blog not just for sources but uh also for a little bonus
Content of michelle’s greek life memorabilia nice yeah i want to see some pics from from back in the day hair bumps and all and remember guys uh it’s not a cult it’s just a podcast except for greek life is like definitely a cult and that’s that cat in the hat
Is that making your new catchphrase i think so okay i think it’s yours all right i’m gonna stop bye guys
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