What’s up it’s way up with Angela y I’m Angela y my guy Mayo is here I was like may you got for this one because we need you here all right and we have uh Courtney B Vance and Dr Robin L Smith here talking about this book The
Invisible ache oh man listen love it I have all my little uh quotes from different parts of the book that I wanted to talk about but I felt like uh for Mayo cuz a lot of this book is about black men identifying their pain and mayo I feel like it’s somebody that
Hasn’t tapped into that you know no I’ve tapped in wa minut yet I’ve tapped in he says that he’s cured no no I’m joking but I tapped in understandable that as a black man that there’s a lot of issues that we hav address right I I spent a
Lot of years in prison so that alone you know you know you couple that with just being in the type environment that I grew up in there is a lot of things that we haven’t dealt with and you don’t know until later on until you see certain
Things happening with you you know so I I I I went through a period of time where I was getting a lot of therapy because I had needed it at that time but I I think therapy is is is you you can continue to get it right I don’t think
You can get it for a time a certain time and it stop oh no right oh no that that’s why we’re here that’s what the invisible a is about but and let me just say something I love amen um what you just said uh about being in prison not that you were there
But everybody’s in prison whether they know it or not some people are locked up which is different than the prison we have in our minds and it is that prison that many black men black boys and black people do not realize that just because we are no longer enslaved does not mean
There are not shackles that’s right on our thoughts on our minds that we are not living into lies instead of the truth that’s right about who we were destined and Born to Be So yeah so so sometimes people end up in a a physical prison right because of the prison that
They were surviving long before that big house right you know mental mental uh shackles absolutely that actually has longl lasting effects yes you see I read a book I’m sorry I read a book called chains and images of psychological slavery and it talked about you know um
Some of the some of the things that we took from slavery right some of the way we spoke the way we thought some of those things and how we dealt with each other came Which derived directly from um slavery but it was it was like a
Revolving door it kept us down so that’s that mental shackles that you’re talking Abol absolutely absolutely same thing with like fraternities and I know angel said wait a minute you you all where y going two people we’re listening this what I wanted but I will say also if we look at
Black uh fraternities and sororities in particular and Courtney and I write about this in the invisible ache black men identifying their pain and reclaiming their power our new book um what where is it that black men in college learn to put their hands on other black men and call it a fraternity
And call it haing yeah well that when when you’re pledging and well it’s it it’s it has its own and the reason I bring this up is because as you’re talking about what happened in slavery that we brought with us that revolving door when people are in college or in a
Gang wherever it is and we are harming ourselves and each other we don’t realize that we are reenacting a part of slavery that made us hate ourselves and and hate the other people that look like us indeed think about The Branding that goes with that the paddling yeah and all of those
Things I want to ask because the way you guys put this book together is uh very unique you know we have um Dr Robin who we’ve all seen and very acclaimed uh therapist psychiatrist from Oprah um and in your own right you know you have your
Own show on serus also and then of course Courtney B Vance who by the way besides being just an extraordinary and I know we can’t talk about much of that because of uh sag after and the strike that’s happening um right now and that part of it but you guys came together to
Do this book um and Courtney you shared a lot of things about yourself that also led to you seeking out therapy and then Dr Robin you also explained in each chapter as he was talking about things from his childhood and his adulthood um that led to you guys kind of coming
Together to do this what made you decide this was necessary well it’s necessary for me because I I was was in sh I was Shackled um and didn’t realize it until my mother asked my sister and I after we spent a month getting my mother’s Affairs together after my
Father passed away um she challenged us as we were about to leave she said I want you to go back to our respective cities she said I want you both to when you go back to um to New York and to Maryland to um um get some therapy find a therapist and
Because daddy Vance died by suicide by Suicide so he didn’t just pass away he died by Suicide so that’s why mommy said we going to do we got to do about we got to break this and so neither one of us knew I had never heard about therapy so
I was okay Mommy cuz if mommy says it it’s it’s done so we both said okay but you know the the actual going back and how that happens um um you know gratefully uh thankfully I was able to afford I was on Broadway doing six degrees separation so I was on top of
The theatrical world but with my father’s suicide and death I was unmowed and so the question was simply well everything came up then it was I was remember sitting on stoop outside my therapist my vental therapist office and you know in gry park and it if you know
Anything about GR Park you can’t get in there you know unless you you uh you one of the property owners around the park there’s a key so I’m sitting on the stoop waiting for my therapist time my therapy time and uh I’m you know I’m on the quote unquote top of the theatrical
World and I’m sitting on a stoop and these white people are walking by me looking like looking at me like I’m about to steal something from them or what is he doing on the what’s he doing in this area right you know and I so I
Go go into my therapy session I’m like I feel so bad I feel I’m nothing and she said Courtney wait a minute what what are you you’re you’re on top of the what are you doing what’s wrong so I now to explain to her she said oh you know and
You know just the you know it’s it’s all of us all of us are Shackled we we talked about that prior to the the the the beginning of the show all of us is Shackled the question is what are you going to do about it so we we began to
She began with you know just seeing where I was she said um Courtney do you how do you make decisions and I said I don’t know I just I flip a coin isn’t that how you do it she said okay because she said Courtney sometimes you know there’s there’s
Nothing to do you just got to wait is it go tell me something courney do you have the patience to let the mud settle in the water and the water become clear I saw that that was loud to you said that said that I said what water become clear patient oh no no
I got to go right so she said got to be patient and just let everything settle I have like 20 questions from what you just said number one from the book you talked about even getting a therapist the right person that’s important to discuss right because sometimes you can
Be turned off if you have an experience you go in to talk to somebody you had that experience where it just wasn’t the right fit and getting those recommendations so just talking to people who are listening sometimes we feel like our therapist has to look like
Us no right and you know do I need to have a black person so I want you to discuss the process of finding the right therapist for you and if you don’t have the right person to make sure that it’s like dating kind of you have to yeah find somebody that you’re comat
Compatible with so can you talk about that process it’s it’s you which is why you’ve got to be ready for the journey you’ve got to say I’m I’m I’m doing this for me and I’m doing it for I’m in it for the long haul and whatever that
Means because it there’s there so many obstacles even when you find a therapist it’s like oh it’s my therapy night uh you know there’s so many reasons to say I’m not going to do it um but you know I I had gotten to the place where I was at
The end of my rope but not the end of my hope so I said you know every that was my time I I so looked forward to my time and I I moved everything out of the way for that you know and so I I’m my life centered around my therapy session and
Uh and my therapist Dr cornfield Margaret cornfield got AR rest her soul um she she challenged me and in so many ways but she challenged me she said Courtney I need you to get your dreams cuz that’s how we met we met on a dream because the night before I went to meet
Her uh I had a dream I never I don’t dream at least I didn’t think I did in a dream and there was a certain pattern in my dream and I well whatever and uh so when I met her when I shook her hand at her office and turned to the left there
Were two offices that she had right and left and turned to the right hand to sterile to the left I saw the pattern in my dream on a pillow in her on her couch so I said I knew I’m I knew when I shook
Her hand I knew I was home but when I saw that I I said this is me right here and I just started babbling just back cuz I I had sat down with a a sister mhm and just sat there with my head in my hands cuz I for an
Hour she she wouldn’t help me I said I didn’t know what to do right what do I say what do you say in therapy I don’t I don’t know I didn’t know anything I you know are you going to help me right what do you mean you were looking for her to say
Tell you something I was looking for her to said how do we do this this is your first time doing this I don’t know the process the protocol what I do she was not she was not gentle with me she just was sitting there and then finally when
I had my head in my hands she said do you have a headache I said no I don’t have a headache I just don’t know what to do we’re just sitting here looking at each other like okay 50 minutes cuz you know oh yeah that 50 minute
Hour right right right you know so you know I mean it’s just it’s it’s it’s and then don’t even talk about paying for it you know the the whole I mean my f my therapist said Dr cornfield said if if your father had been my my patient I
Would have put him in the hospital to save his life you know and my my my my godson who um during coid his parents couldn’t go into the the session with him to Advocate and he was fine when he was going to he would go to the the
Doctor’s evaluation visits for 2 hours he was fine but as soon as he left out of there maybe a day or two later he had an episode and he said we we we just we you you honey didn’t you get any a prescription did you did you tell them
You have episodes you do you get a prescri no Mommy I was fine I’m fine so that’s you know that I mean how many young people people in general slipped slipped through the cracks during coid because they couldn’t get you know go to funerals couldn’t go to weddings only 10 people you know
Couldn’t go to school couldn’t go to school I mean it was see their friends I mean the well and it’s in his godson Courtney’s godson was 23 years young and you know one of the things we talk about in the book is what is it that Courtney’s father and his godson were
Saying um that maybe we couldn’t hear right and so part of the invisible ache is about calling all black boys and black men and the people that love them um but particularly black boys and black men to the floor of their own life it’s
Like an alter call um not for God but an alter call to re-engage with yourself that’s right in a way that either you never have or you haven’t for a very long time there’s you know when we talk about how to find the right therapist people will say angel as you were saying
Well uh maybe the person needs to be black cuz I’m black they need to be Christian because I’m Christian and so I will ask people when you go for if you have to have heart surgery or eye surgery do you ask for a black surgeon
Do you have no what you want to know is can you get me off the table alive looking for the best right can you get my can I keep my eyesight right um can you keep my heart beating so that I can live and so many of us miss out and I
Understand why and Courtney and I talk about this because we as black people have been experimented on literally experimented on Health Care System ABS well and it’s not there’s no there’s no care in right absolutely I mean black women having to deal with maternal Health Care well maternal Health Care
Having hysterectomies that they didn’t need having C-sections I mean right so no right absolutely so there’s no question that our suspicion makes sense and it’s our responsibility to understand that that’s just another way to keep us out of the game of our own lives meaning to make us afraid so
Afraid that we don’t go to doctors and and black men you know who are dying and and get this dying more of prostate cancer but diagnosed because they’re not diagnosed because they don’t go so we get it less but we die more we get breast cancer less black women but we
Die more what we see now with suicides is that black not just black people and not only black men we you know have Courtney’s godson and his dad in twitch you know from Ellen there’s so many right uh black men who have died by Suicide but the other thing we don’t
Know but we know now from the research is black children children not adolescence black children are dying at a higher rate of suicide than any other population in this country say they they depressed absolutely depressed anxious social media the way in which you can be bullied and taunted and you can also see
This airbrush life that you think everybody else is living except and like I was telling Mano how often have you heard man up like said or Boys Don’t Cry you’re not supposed to cry you got to be tough and put on this really tough exterior to to be outside and then
You’re looking at social media and you’re thinking that you got to have certain things you think you got to have your life has to be a certain way you got to look a certain way and it and it and it put you in a maybe in a depressed
State because you don’t you don’t you don’t you may not have that you know when we talk about um and the people were watching a lot of them don’t have it either EXA you don’t just looks like right my cousin hasn’t committed suicide died by Suicide the only reason I want
To say that is we are learning to not say committed suicide because that’s like committed a crime so your cousin Courtney’s godson Courtney Sude yeah they didn’t they didn’t commit a crime they ran out of out of heart to keep going so we just want to give new
Language right it used to be very taboo to say somebody died by Suicide like they did something they did something bad wrong selfish right selfish they were on so please I just want how old was he uh 32 maybe okay so young young yeah um so my
Question my question is that how do how do we help you know young black boys and black men you know um be open to getting help you know help and and you know talking to a therapist and stuff like that how do we get them to to to
Address their trauma you know because you we got trauma you know right right at home yes we do you know before we even go outside you then then our environment doesn’t help when we talked about you know social media and all these things because it’s this pressure
To be a certain kind of way this pressure to be to have to be this certain person how do we get them to you know be open to therapy yeah the first thing I’d say and I know Courtney has a lot to share about that as well and
Thank you for sharing about your your cousin yes um so we speak his name you know we mean we let him come in this moment yes um and be with us um so that we can hear what he was also saying in terms of his own desperation but part of
It and Courtney and I had the U pleasure and honor of being interviewed recently for this book by Oprah and there were a number of black men who particip ated in our this um this wonderful Prime Time special that’s coming out and one of the young men
Said I tried to tell my family but they wouldn’t listen I tried to tell my friends but they wouldn’t listen and so part of to answer your question how we get black men and boys to talk about it is to be willing to listen because a lot
Of times we don’t want to hear if you bring your vulnerability I mean I say I want your heart but as soon as you show up as a black man with your vulnerability I’m pushing back on that you know if if black women are telling the truth and I know black they don’t
Like when I say it but I got to say it and I’m not blaming us what I’m saying is we as black women have been conditioned to tell you that we want your heart but when you bring it to shut it down right we do it with men we do it
With our boys uh when girls fall down we pick them up we kiss their boo boos when boys Found Out Boy Get Up You’re all right what you cry right stop crying what are you crying for right be I’m like and so part of it is to let black
Men know that tears and pain are part of your Divine Birthright like it’s part of being a whole human being yeah but we not condition we’re not but this is why we’re but this is why we’re here to start washing our brains of the lies that say that when we were enslaved we
Were only and right out of slavery Jim Crow we were 3 fths a human being black men you were good for your strength but not for your heart so we have to re-educate ourselves that part of our strength part of the strength of a black boy and a black
Man is his vulnerability as part of his superpower I mean and Courtney will talk about this but part of why Courtney B Vance is Courtney B Vance is because he has leveraged his pain I mean he said we have to convert our pain into what I call usable
Currency so all that broken shattered stuff has some place it has Redemption well that’s that’s that’s what it is is that it’s it’s recognizing that that pain is a part of your your your spirit it’s part of your Redemption it’s part of reclaiming that that that the more I
I I go into the the the vulnerable part of me I mean acting saved my life during this time period because it was someplace as I say I I like to go to musicals and uh anything ballet or you know theater anything that allows me to sit there and what let some Opera
Whatever is happening wash over me because as a as a as an artist everything is a part of my bot everything MH is a part of what we do just like as a therapist everything people are a part of our work and so the more I’m involved as John done the more
I’m involved with Mankind and womankind the more I I start I live and I’m rejuvenated and so you know but it’s recognizing that that that as people I’m I need I can’t be who I am until you are and you are what you are will be so
That’s John dun again the the more I can you know I was you know uh when we the the Bible says that the poor will always be with you and why is that because we don’t do what we’re supposed to do if someone I’m not judging whether or not
You need the dollar I’m about to give you I’m you you just said I’m supposed to help that’s all that’s all I’m called to do I’m not called to to do you need what you going to do you going to get a drink with it just not on me that’s if
You take what I give what you do with it right right but you said you needed it mhm I I’m taking you on my way now that’s on you that’s on you now what you do if you go to do something right if you’re going to do drink or drugs that’s
On you I I I was on the street today this morning and there was a woman and you know all I had was of 20 mhm that’s all I had I’m not she had no just barely had anything on I said I’m not going to
That’s here what if if I walk by her and said had was a 20 what what what am I doing that’s all I had that’s here you need this you know you need this right so I’m not going to give it to you because it’s a blessing
To be a blessing let me tell you to be in a position where you can but you have to recognize that I mean and it’s it it’s not about the money it’s about the spirit of it I’m here to help that’s what I’m here for that’s what that’s
What my wife to showed me you know why why when we first got married I was like you know you know you know men you know she’s both to take she both how come she don’t do for me you both to do and and I
That that took me about as far cuz and you know Angela Basset she’s you know there’s no way I’ll ever make any more money than she is it’s not about the money it’s about emotional you know she she she counts on me to emotionally be there whenever
Courtney I just I you know I got claustrophobic and you okay baby what what did you do are so so that it that that’s what I got I got if I don’t do for her there’s no way that she’s going to turn around it’s not the other way
Around you do for me then I do no it don’t work that way what do you need it’s not transactional what do you need and sometimes it’s 200% nothing that’s that’s something else that I had to get over myself that’s emotional though it feels good there you
Have to start there somebody to help you too that’s that’s a whole another transition a whole but but but but my Godly coner at the time said Courtney that’s who you married no what you going to do and then it’s on me to you so but you
But that’s who so what are you going to do that’s your situation what are you going to do about your situation and that’s life what am I going to do about where I am in life I know what my issues are I know what I’ve come up against I
Know what I just did and I’ve just ran away a messed up a wonderful relationship now Courtney what are you going to do about it are you going to keep doing it are you going to prepare yourself for the next beautiful young lady that comes into your life and I
Take I say I don’t care how long it takes I’m going be ready for this next one and that’s that’s my spirit that’s my that’s my journey that’s my my my my work that I’m emotion it’s not about the money the you do right and the money
Flows seek the kingdom of God and his righteous and those things will follow you I’m not I don’t seek the M the money is going to come to me if I take care of what I’ve been given yes also if you grow up because a lot of this is also about maturity not
Age but what does it mean you know a part of being healthy uh particularly again for black men and black boys is self-care and that people look like self care like when has a black man thought about self you know taking care of himself I don’t I don’t again I’m good
So it’s a new thing to say actually I’m not feeling so good right now yeah yeah come tell me the my issue with that is the in the world that we live in right and having them having responsibilities you know being a black man and having so many responsibilities
Is almost I felt like I I don’t even have the luxury to be able to not be okay not be okay right but let me tell you this I hear you I really do and in many ways you haven’t had the luxury to not be
Okay but if you don’t find and you asked this question about you know how do we get people to go to therapy and I don’t even mean traditional like go in and see a therapist this is therapy yeah yeah yeah definely you know what I’m saying this is therapy like conversation conversation
Hon right Honest yeah and they’re right there because you start off the book talking about how black traum can play hide and seek and a lot of times we do self-medicate and try to do things that maybe aren’t really going to help us you know work on longm longterm and and so
It’s important just I want to just suggest M that you consider what might what the long-term effects will be on you and your your life and I’m glad you’re saying this I think it’s all the women too is like a therapy for you no for real right but the thing is I’ve
I’ve I’ve been I’ve dealt with so much and I deal with so much that it’s like I’m numb it’s like I’m numb to certain things like to issues to problems it’s like I almost expect to deal with them it’s like I’m numb right and and I just
Kind of I don’t ignore things I I deal with them but I feel like like I said earlier I don’t have the luxury of not being okay I don’t have the luxury of being able to just you know say all right I just want to take this time off
To to deal with with with me or self-care like I don’t think and and that’s fine and that’s fine but but it I’m talking about I think we’re talking about little bitty start small just with I was this it was telling you today this
Last night m i you know I was just in my in the hotel room I like I need to go get some air just for me I mean and and and it’s it’s not it’s it’s I’m and I do things you know for myself I say I got to do things that are
Healthy for me cuz I mean just just want to get some air could be I’m going to go to the club I’m going to go do something go drinking I don’t drink but I mean just do something this is this I’m not going to do nobody no harm I’m just
Going to I’m just going to go out I ain’t going to get in no trouble I’mma look both ways so these these bikes and these ebikes don’t run me over and and I’m going go out and I’m going go get me uh um um a city bike and I’mma just ride
Around right right right right and and and just when I come back I know I feel better cuz I just I know what it does for me and so as I was D I got ebody got in got going I said well I’m up here where’s my my college roommate my
College friend lives on you know up 7677 in Broadway area I said let me just call him and he happened to be home and so I just I ended up you know trying to get some air and ended up being completely blessed by somebody I didn’t
Expect to even talk to nobody and we talked about 20 minutes I said I ain’t trying don’t put on don’t put on no clothes I know you got your PJs on don’t try to change nothing just I’m just hey I’m just going to his wife was in there
Said hey don’t come out here I’m doing it she came out give me a hug right back in you know but it’s it’s it’s small you got to start small to do for you yeah and then you start to grow into it becomes more you know more specific more
You know but what she I think what she’s asking what she’s saying is that you need what you know what you need to do for yourself and sometimes after everybody else is taken care of everybody else is done mom you good Brown Slater everybody good young I’m
Going to go for a bike ride and they know that about me Daddy’s going to get on the bike and he’s going to and I’ll be back and if you need me you know how to get me text me call me whatever but I
Need to go do for me or I’m going to walk up the block that’s right just something for you something for me and so this is this is what when you said you don’t you know have the luxury MH and I said to you you don’t have the
Luxury not to do it small things small things small things like if you’re thirsty to not make yourself wait too long for that glass of water M if you need fresh air and someone else needs something from you because the issue of worthiness I mean really of black boys
And black men feeling that they are worthy of being uh cared for care yes cared for right and that they are worthy of caring for themselves indeed even if the people around them mothers fathers women whoever even if someone and a society that sees you as a threat and
Danger there is something about rewiring your own brain right that’s the that’s the thing it’s rewiring your own brain so that you’re like no no we don’t grow up feeling wor no we don’t we don’t grow up feeling that we can show true honest emotion yes we we we we shy away from
That it could be dangerous literally I mean people lose their lives yeah right so it’s it’s it’s so many different elements you know in in this world that pre helps to prevent us from being able to be as vulnerable yes you know but if that’s my superpower right but we have
To learn that right right we do have but wouldn’t that be just like the system to want me to not claim what will make me even more and power got no I no I follow I no we’re saying the same so that’s part of the thing it’s it’s to keep us
Thinking I can’t afford right it’s to keep me thinking afford not to right that that I better I better show nothing you know I always say the where it says never let them see you sweat and I’m like that’s good for a commercial but it’s not good for a soul
That’s good for I mean a deodorant commercial but never let them see you sweat I mean can I I’m just just imagine if my if my mother had gave that to my sister and I we and I went yeah nah I ain’t doing that and I would I never tell them where I’d
Be I mean I’d be alive because I’d be I would have I I would have keep approaching life right with the tools that I had thinking that that thinking that it was adequate enough and that got me that got me to where I was but it
Wasn’t enough to be able to get me past where I had come to there’s no way I would have been able to overcome knowing that my you know Dr cornfeld she was a little Jewish lady she challenged me she said courtne need do you have the
Patience to let the mud settle in the water and the water become clear I said what is that mhm patience no how do you make decisions Court just doc I just flip a coin don’t is that what most people is that what people do that’s good for acting right but for
Life life right it could be devastating M and you know I didn’t I didn’t I didn’t have tools this is what you what you you were saying I had I had tools but only to to for achievement yeah only for getting selfcare tools I have nothing I I didn’t know how to make
Decisions I I didn’t know nothing that was but and no judgments on my mother and father they did they did they did what they could do based on what was afforded to them trying to make things better they coming from a hell of a time absolutely right so it’s absolutely you can’t never
Look back and say well they didn’t you know what they had to deal with oh yeah the rest of it is on me that’s right right they brought me this far as far as they could absolutely now from here on that’s right when I left home to go to
College they they the last thing my daddy did before he he died he died of suicide was pay off my college loans he didn’t pay off none other bills he couldn’t pay off nothing he paid off your there was 10 credit cards charged up to the max but he paid off my heart
Talk about pressure pressure that’s I’m saying pressure that no one knew that his dad was right so he pays that off but the pressure of wanting to take care of his family 10 credit cards maxed out man that pressure is that pressure your cousin that pressure whatever you
Know that pressure twitch right I mean we don’t know right that pressure right and it they not communicating and what I would say is it’s our job to create a safe space for every black man and boy that we say less and listen more yes and I think
Sometimes people also think when you’re success when you’re quote successful that you shouldn’t have any problems and people definitely have less sympathy for misconception I mean it’s a lie that’s such a bad misconception now Courtney you got very personal about your house right you were at home and the neighbor
Called the police and they came and that had to be a really difficult situation no the the I think the the um the security called the police somehow the popo ended up at the house they thought you were on vacation okay and we were we
Were and my wife was out of town the Twins were three and they were sleep thank God and uh I thought I heard you know black person when they they hear noise in the house they go in the kitchen get the biggest knife they can find and we start walking through the
House and that’s what I that’s what I did and holy spirit said put that knife down and go across go go to the back which but in order to go to back I had to go across a big big old PL glass window so I put the knife in the kitchen
Window across then I said you know what I bet there’s something on the porch I went on the porch I went to look on the porch but on out side the front door there’s this glass so you can look to see I I said bet somebody threw a script
Or something there for Angela I said let me look I don’t see let me look on this side let me look on the other side then see I said I got to take the alarm off and open the door five or six police officers were out there with guns just
Screaming at the time this is midnight screaming at small little town that we living come out of here with your hands up I said and I hav seen enough Law and Order episodes and been in a couple been in right and say so I came out said yes
Ma’am yes ma’am yes yeah you know and you know quiet I said you know I live here oh come out here I said yes ma’am okay get on your knees okay get on we’ve been in that neighborh for a year maybe get on these in front of there was a it
Was a African-American uh police officer to my left and she recognized oh lord lord lord no no no she recognized was who I was and was married to and then she said here’s my badge number if you ever need anything right you know and So eventually they you know they found out
Um but you know I mean I you know and come to find out there were five or six or seven police officers in the back so if I had gone across that PL glass window anything could have happened they shot they were shot me yeah and the twins
Were three in the bed and they I mean then Angel’s out of town so you know it it doesn’t it doesn’t matter you know it does I mean no money is not what this is about you know this is just about you know taking learning how and and it you
Know it’s good I get it everybody don’t know I didn’t know but the main thing is that once you know if once you you know you once you know you got to do better if you know better you got to do better and now with our book we’re saying that
As we’re going around talking that you know I didn’t know and thank God my mother challenged my sister and I to get some help and that we that it became part of our Sav our life blood the the talking things through learning how to talk learning how to communicate
Learning how to I mean cuz as my little other phrase is if it wasn’t for the people it would be a Wonderful World you got to deal with the people you got to know how to deal with people that and also Courtney your your mother did something very powerful often I call her
You know the the mama lion um a lot of times parents say do what I say not what I do when they don’t want us you know say well you did it Daddy or you did it mommy be better than me you know right well right his mother did
Something very different in the midst of all of this trauma of her husband Dying by Suicide her children are distraught she’s distraught she said we’re all going to therapy meaning everybody’s going home you know back to their respective cities Courtney his sister and the mother would be at home in
Detroit and we’re all going to get therapy and so what’s important is that if we want our children to be free and you’re doing this you and Angela with your kids we can’t tell them about Freedom we have to become the walking example of what we want them to be and
So your mother did that for you you and Angela are doing that for your children my family the same I mean like me Dr Robin I have my own therapist people are like well again why do you need a therapist you’re a therapist I said because I’m a human being right and I
Have holes h o l e s and I want to be whole w o l e which is a whole h o l y journey so like right I want to take my stuff somewhere and look at it without judgment and shame with compassion and curiosity so it’s also important as
People are hearing us to recognize that if you as an adult are broken which we all have Brokenness if you want your children to have something more then become it you become the freedom you become The Liberation don’t talk to them about it be it be it you know where you’re like
Why are you giving yourself away and you don’t take care of yourself well let me look in the mirror as the parent and see have I shown them anything about my worthiness of self-care or or am I expecting them to do something that I myself right I’m not practicing so just
To point out it’s so important that parents are are thinking about what message they’re sending and we have a quote in the book that says the lion story will never be known as long as the hunter is the one to tell it yeah the lion story so our story black boys and
Black man your story will never be known as long as the hunter is the one to tell it and so the invisible ache black men identifying their pain and reclaiming their power is about imp empowering all communities but particularly black boys and black men that they are the lion they are telling
Their own story and that the hunter will no longer be the one narrating for any of us got it you know um before we end this I want to ask about you reframing forgiveness and the idea of forgiveness because we always talk about this and how important forgiveness is and how
Important that is for ourself but sometimes that word can be weird for people to be like like I forgive you and they’re like how can you forgive somebody for doing that can you just talk about that a little bit yeah I mean I will and I know Courtney has his own
Um experience with this I think that forgiveness we misunderstand what forgiveness is um first of all forgiveness like Deliverance you know when someone says I’m delivered from that or I’ve forgiven someone what I always either say out loud or whisper is for this moment meaning you might be delivered from
Drugs or womanizing or man whatever we’re doing for the moment because life has a new Fresh moment to see where I land there forgiveness is the same way you could forgive someone and then watch something or hear something and get all stirred up again so forgiveness is not about becoming someone’s
Doormat again forgiveness is really about having clear boundaries regarding your worthiness what you will and will not tolerate you can forgive someone and still have nothing to do with them ever again in life see that’s very hard they’re like well if you forgave them then you could
Still be their friend well you don’t need to be their friend that’s my Ministry yeah I mean you know you don’t need to be that’s not what forgiveness is that’s like that’s like cheapness you know like it’s an easy thing forgive is I’m at peace and I’m free and my freedom
Will dictate what I do and whether or not your being in my life serves God’s purpose in and through me that has nothing to do with whether or not I have lunch with you ever again I return to a marriage with that’s not about that it’s about how clear am I
About my Divine Destiny why I was born who God has called me to be not whether or not I can say oh I forgive you and then what do I do create chaos because it’s mess it’s it’s about it’s it’s cuz there’s that there’s an energy to
Holding on to grudges and it turns into something else right so I I’m I I’m I want to let it go I want to get it off me if I’m if I messed over you if you messed over me you know what you know I’m letting it go and as the the the
Beauty of what you said is I’m letting it go but I recognize I don’t need to be around you it’s not going to happen another time so I you go with God I you know I bless you and I appreciate you but for for for you know I I look at
Life like a bullseye yeah it’s like a bullseye there’s only certain people you let in that inner circle yeah and those people have been tested through time and there’s other Rings you may be able to be in another one of my rings but you ain’t coming into my inner circle
Because of what we just went through for both of us right right but I’m letting it off of you I’m it’s off of me now yeah I’m I’m I’m sorry or I forgive forgive forgive you but you know you we both know let’s let’s goes agree to disagree and go separate ways definitely
So yeah yeah no no no I mean I think the other thing I just want to say which is I’m I love Courtney when I hear you talk about the energy around what we hold on to MH um and you know what we what we focus on uh becomes our life
And what becomes our life and what we focus on actually has dominion over us it’s the it’s those shackles again and so if I’m in a relationship of any kind and I’m focusing on something negative or something negative keeps getting created and I don’t ask the question
Courtney said which which is what am I going to do about it not when are you going to stop doing what you’re doing not when are you going to change not when are you going to care about what you’re bringing to our Dynamic but when
Am I going to care when am I going to care I had a friend who said to me that her husband at the time said you know I don’t give an f about you and she was devastated I didn’t say it to her in that moment but shortly thereafter I
Said you know the issue isn’t really whether or not he gives an f about you but do you give F about yourself I mean that’s what the invisible ache it’s like I have an ache and maybe you don’t care about it and I didn’t used to care about it but I I
I’ve gotten some new intelligence that’s right I’ve some new news that my ache I like care about what hurt me I care about my trauma and I don’t want to take my trauma and bleed all over you because that’s what we do when we haven’t taken
Care of our trauma we bleed out on other people and other people bled out on us I mean okay but what am I going to do about it right sometimes you have to take control of your own when you’re sitting on the edge of your bed at 2: in
The morning everybody does yeah you know what you need to do yeah and you know what what you’re dealing with nobody does but you and God at that point you sitting on the edge of your bed at 2: in the morning you know what you need to do you
May go out after at at 6:00 in the morning you get up you put your mask on you back to but at 2:00 in the morning we know exactly where we are and what we’re dealing with and the question is what we going to do right really
That’s me all the time I’m like all right let’s make a move well and Courtney I want to ask you as president of the SAG after Foundation what do you what do you think about like it’s been tough with all these negotiations and that has to be hard for
The actors too and for the writers so what are some things that you’ve been seeing and what are you hoping for I’m hoping that the strike is over very shortly right that’s that’s the only thing I can hope for and I think it I think we’re very close that’s what I’ve
Heard um the negotiations are secrets so you know we’re the foundation we’re not the negotiations are are happening between the the streamers uh heads and the studio heads and the Union right so um as soon as they let us know I mean our job is the the foundation I’m
President of the foundation is to raise money for these a s such a time as this so that folks who are on the picket lines who are out of work for five 6 months now that they can their bills can still be paid yeah that’s a tough time
To be in so that’s what we do we we we for the pandemic we raised uh you know about $910 million for this one we raised more than that and so that the the the the membership can survive that’s right so that’s I’m I’m grateful that we that our our our high earners
Were able to in the studios and all were able to step in and help us do that so because that’s even when we think about an invisible ache like and credit cards that are maxed out and whatever has happened with your cousin and twitch and the things we don’t pressure without anyone knowing
Right that we are feeling like we’re going to explode inside or we’re going to lose everything we’re going to lose our house we’re going to you know lose our our marriages and so what your found what the SAG after Foundation is doing is so important because it’s giving relief right it is
Sometimes people think you’re on TV and you’re rich and you’ll be okay and that people don’t have sympathy or empathy for that but to know that there are people who are certainly job to job check to check just most people most membership the majority exactly so it’s
Important to note that absolutely ab and the shame that some people who are in front of the camera feel about letting someone know we talk about this in the invisible ache as well not do you hurt we’re not asking black boys and men do you hurt we’re asking where does it hurt
Cuz it’s not about do you right we know you hurt so the same thing you’re saying about you know people in front of the camera this isn’t you know do you need help it’s how can we help you because we know you need it right because we know you
Need it I mean there are those 15% that may not but in general what does it mean to let people know they need other kind of help well right right we all need help yes we do some of us need some help yes well thank you guys so much for
Coming through the invisible a uh courney bance and Dr Robin L Smith um just amazing to have been able to read this I highly recommend um black men identifying their pain and reclaiming their power in particular Mana who is a very close de friend of mine I wanted to
Make sure apprciate thank you so much he was here for this I could already tell it meant a lot to you definitely yeah no I appreciate you I really do yeah I had this fantasy um you might say oh where’s she going but um no but I had this
Fantasy when you said about you know not feeling that you have you know the luxury and I thought what would it mean when Courtney said about going outside last night um I’m not going to do this but you know to take your arm and for
You and I to just walk a half block together talking or not you know what I mean maybe saying nothing um but what does it mean to you know whether it’s walking with our dog or or walking by ourselves or you and I walk just a half
A block or just downstairs not even outside um but in a way that says that you’re your heart matters and I see you um and you see me you have time today Mayo cuz look he really really wants to be in love and but it’s it’s true get
You okay may get you she get you she right she right I be I be playing with with certain things like you know what I mean right I be throwing some stuff out I be joing have serious well let me just say this we do joke about what we mean
Exactly we do joke in some in some way you know and that yeah we’re going to get through oh yeah well no I have you’re I’m I’m excited about you just the fact that you shared you didn’t have to share right no when when they told me
First of all we was reading some of the book and she was reading off chapters and stuff I was like Mana listen to this cuz I really wanted him to be here uh I I really believe in this you know yeah you know with my background and and and not
Having Outlets or not feeling vulnerable enough to even look Outlet to to deal with some of the things that’s going on right but see when when you come through this and look I’m going to speak prophetically it’s it’s it’s already done you got a what a what a Ministry
You have to be able to talk to people from that that that know you and be able to say this is where I was this is where I came through come on you can come with really can we do it you know I mean it’s
That’s why I said for me yeah I 30 years ago you know I’m getting ready for I I was in prep for today you know so our children are 18 and if I hadn’t done the work I I wouldn’t have been there I wouldn’t have met Angela but you so I’m
I’m you and prep work for what about to right yeah you know so that’s that’s why I said it’s it’s it’s it’s life work and you know I mean it’s you you know I you have to do it you you know cuz you know you you don’t know what he’s got planned
For for you you got some you got to get ready you got get you and Angela That’s what I heard Angel’s out you angel I appreciate y’all thank you appreciate you more thank you thank you so much guys
source
