BHL I must say seeing you on the stage in this light and I before we get serious you are still an astonishingly good-looking man I do I do know one trade secret though even though he’s French he doesn’t eat cheese just saying something to think about uh speaking of French the most important
Question to ask you tonight is how are your people uh what is the mood of the French people after the massacre on November 13th um uh how is their Spirit uh how are they responding to each other to their government to their neighbors uh tell us the mood is uh low distressed sometimes
Despaired the idea that the enemy can strike at any time at any place place a lot of my relatives and Friends lost somebody I myself was informed of this attack by one of my best friend a young great photographer who was hiding in the kitchen of one of the restaurant which
Was attacked he was wounded protecting his girlfriend and he called me just at the beginning of the attack number two my people is um nevertheless High Spirit Cold Blood resistance trying to continue life as it was understanding that one of the targets of these criminals is to kill
The spirit of the city The Shining Spirit of our shining City about our hell they want to kill that so we have to revive and keep vibrant the spirit of Paris most of parisians feel that that’s why by the way they finally defeated few weeks after the twin of
Isis of not of Isis the twin of the of the islamists who is a national front one Nish feeds the other and the people of Paris and of France defeated Mrs Len so distressed but High Spirit and number three because for an old normalan like me that is always one
Two three dialectic number three uh probably a better understanding of um what terrorism is is and of what it is in other countries other cities New York 14 years ago T Aviv 14 hours before uh to be under attack constantly well this is true I mean uh
The United States and France I mean I think it’s important to start off by saying we are very much here to see you and I don’t want to speak entirely for our audience but we’re also standing in solidarity with our Parisian cousins um we uh France thank you France I didn’t tell
You this in advance you responded well uh um I uh you know France is our first Ally we are twins of the Enlightenment siblings of democratic liberalism both cities are known for light the city of light the bright lights of Broadway uh we are true creatures Children of the Enlightenment and it
Does appear as if we’re fighting the forces of Darkness did did the French people respond differently this time from the one that happened with Charlie habau 10 months earlier I mean this is like twice in within a year did they did the second one I mean remember the SE uh Secretary
Of State Kerry made an unfortunate comment when he said that the first attack was somewhat legitimate then he backed away from it and he said well there’s a rationale look he broke his leg leave alone uh um but he did say and was and I think you wrote that it was an
Unfortunate comment because it made it sound like of course cartoonists are legitimate and Jews are legitimate but the people in a club in a restaurant are illegitimate did this shake the French in different ways because the targets were different and because it it gave them a sense that no place is perhaps
Safe unfortunately yes I I must say that uh not for everyone uh far from it certainly not in the high spares of power in France uh French president French prime minister the opposition also reacted bravely fairly in the best way possible but there is a a great number of people who
Reacted in the way of John Kerry in the in front of the Personnel of the American Embassy meaning what meaning that at the time of Charlie ABDO and deeper Kasher there was a sort of there was there is today the idea that of course the cartoonist did not deserve of course the
Jewish ladies and men who were just making their buying things for Shabbat are not responsible but in a way by opposition to that the there is the current ID floating in the air of Paris in some circles not everywhere that the young of batac the people of
The stadium of France who were shot in distinctly are innocent victims without any sort of legitimacy and there is a creeping um underlying little stream which U has to be opposed which is opposed by the by a lot of people in France which says that that there are some
Explainable targets but when you explain too much yes you are close to justify and you have some unexplainable therefore unjustify unjustifiable targets which is today there can be this this way and another way of saying the same thing you have in Paris some voices who begin to raise
Who begin to to appear which say we in order to avoid further attacks in order to avoid to be the targets of the indistinct targets of terrorism we should get out of the Game Stop um fighting them uh stop thinking to resist to them to appease is Isis there is some
Voices even in the intellectual circles we even had a few prominent intellectuals who said at the end who who did buy the wording of the Isis propaganda who said we shot you we struck you because you are bombing Us in Syria and we had some intellectual who
Said maybe they’re right maybe we should stop striking them and they would stop shooting us this way of thinking is first not honorable disgusting and number two stupid because it has nothing to do with what we do it has to do as always with jihadism with what we are uh as you well
Said like New York Twin Cities uh cities of open cities cities of citizenship cities of Civility cities of civilization cities embodying the very Spirit of cities there are there there are others cities like this but New York Paris London a few years ago Madrid have in common that they embody
The very Spirit of cities and if you see well all the fascism of the last s years had always designated as one of their main target the spirit of cities the from Hitler yeah or goels to uh the Nazi of today who are the islamist going
Through popot they had a they had a few targets the Jews the women and the cities I even remember when I was in Saro 20 years ago there was a great guy called B bdan bogdanovich who said that in the core of fascism there is a lot of things anti-Semitism the will of
Genocide and the will of urde bdan bogdanovich invented the concept of urbicide BBS City in Latin IDE and it is true you in New York were victims 14 years ago September 11 of the will of fici side we are victim of the wheel ofde T Aviv every day is victim of
Creeping r r how do you say that ongoing desire of herbicide the stabbing which is at the end of the the daily stubbings are a form are cing of beheadings beheading without the big weapon beheading with the weapon you find but it is the same
Thing those who stab in t Aviv have seen definitely the video of propaganda of Isis uh praising beheading praising the the spilling of blood of Jews because of because they are Jews and they have read how the propaganda of Isis declares a total war to the spirit of cities and T Aviv is
Like New York and like Paris embodiment of the city of the spirit of cities citizenship civilization civilities cities Liberty eal fraternity everyone can they pronounce it better than me but they know it it was good but they but everyone knows it just like we know I hope I I hope I have I
Have such a good accent in English that’s FR well you want to you want to do better I’m sorry for my accent by the way are you kidding I was 30 seconds away from saying but we’re moving we got so much to cover I wanted to say that
Since this is being live streamed and since there are probably some expats who are French who are here uh I thought that maybe if you wanted to briefly speak to the French from the stage of the 92nd Street y briefly in part that we get we get to hear you in French uh
What would you say people want to hear you in French they just did and I was rejected they said fraternity um these principles these these important Virtues Of what it means to be French the polity of French how is it maintained in an atmosphere and we look
Believe me we have we’ve had this experience first we went through this first with the Patriot Act and the national surveillance act how do you maintain these principles very powerful principles of civil liberties at a time of War when one is trying to combat terrorism now you wrote recently in a
Widely read essay it appeared in a number of different places including haaretz and hington post and the Toronto globe in mail you wrote France must do by Banning those who preach Hate by placing under closer surveillance the thousands of persons already classified as potential jihadists by persuading social networks
In the United States not to allow calls for kamakazi killings to proliferate in the shadows of the First Amendment now I can tell you you are a a a writer and intellectual of the French left this cannot be said by thean American left you have to be on the Republican primary
Stage to say any anything like that this would never be said this is something that you said and you are to to so many people the darling of the French left and yet we have these fundamental principles of French democracy and Liberty and is it possible to do this to
Take this stance including you have thoughts about how to respond to Isis right now deesh can it be done and can you still remain a quintessentially French society my problem has never been to be the quintessence of whatever uh my problem is not to be left
Or not left it is to say the truth the truth and the just the fairness is to say two things at the same time and you have to to be able to count till two one two one is not to transform Europe into a fortress one is not to take uh argument
Of these attacks to close our border one is not to fall into the trap in which Mr and Mrs Donald which is Mrs Mr Trump and Mrs Leen have fallen this is the requirement number one and I said in the same piece that at the limit I would not
Be against welcoming even more yeah and we’re going to talk about that refugees number one number two we are at war or we are not at War I listened to my president who said we are at War if we are at War there is the enemy is uh outside of
Our borders and as always inside I quote in the article Churchill yeah who is not a fascist as far as I know who is the embodiment of the with general deul of the resistance to Fascism the first thing which Shi did when he entered into
The war was not to watch the suspect was not to forbid uh the Facebook of that time who was I don’t know what to put in jail a few hundred people whom he considered as a danger for the nation so Time Has Changed we are not going to put in jail uh
1,000 maybe huge suspects but to have them under scrutiny to watch them carefully not to joke any longer with the lives of the Jews ofer Kasher of the Jour the free journalists and of the people who like music yes we have to that’s why we have to hold the two ropes
At the same time not to fall in the Trap of Mr and Mrs is Donald and not to fall in the Trap of angelism which would be uh not to take care of these people who are suspect of jihadism today in the situation in which we
Are it is impossible to preach in a mosque salafism uh it is to preach salafism in a in a French mosque or in a French place it is like preaching uh goels in 1942 in in a city of France or England it is the same it is to endorse the
Worst propaganda of those who want to to kill us so you’re wait you’re saying that one literally can’t or simply isn’t happening right now in France or you’re saying it must be stopped if it is to be it it is less and less when it happens and when it is uh
Reported open known it is stopped immediately to to to to preach jihadism is considered today in France and I think this is fair as out of law it is not and I know that in America you live under the the the law and that is great that is a great thing of America
Of the First Amendment okay I love that I I am an advocate of Free Speech but sometimes you have some free speech who who are free criminal words uh you have some words who are like bombs you have some opinions who are just who are not just opinions who are appeal to
Murder how do you have to consider them I’m having a heart attack uh you know I’m going to take him to NYU with me tomorrow uh you’re not allowed to say anything like this at a law school I mean you just can’t I can’t I can’t you can’t you
Can’t say this at a university setting you simply can’t you can’t say this what you just said cannot be said I if I was at your school I would quote Mal the French poet Stefan Mal who was who knew what terrorism was by the way he went on the tribunal at
The bar to defend a real a man accused of real terrorism he was called Felix feno a great critic a man like like you yes critic of books great great critic great reader he went to the and he said at the bar of the tribunal he said to
The judge be careful Mr judge there is a form of terrorism which is much more serious that what my friend feno was accused to do words are the real bom BBS words can be real bombs and I believe that um you know there’s a famous quote
That’s uh that was said by one of our Supreme Court Justices Robert Jackson for the lawyers in the room uh said that the constitution is not a suicide pact uh we don’t hear that quote it’s one of my favorite quotes I’ve quoted it several times in some of my books
Because it’s coming from a Supreme Court Justice to say look let’s not be crazy right let’s not be crazy yes there is there are constitutional freedoms and they should be embraced but there are such situations there are such times um another area where you have been incredibly candid and Frank in ways that
We don’t see very often is in what to call what we’re facing uh you’ve said it’s time to call this a war um you’ve had little trouble linking Islam with islamism uh jihadism with Islam you have been very steadfast in saying that we’re in this case language matters naming it
Matters uh in the United States we’re having we’re having a tremendous amount of trouble with the language of what we’re dealing with uh certainly on University campuses forget it on intellectual magazines forget it the president of the United States is constantly reminding us what we can’t
And can’t say and what we what will Aid the enemy what will be good uh and I think people are genuinely confused uh you don’t seem to be confused by the way President haland also said he used he uttered the words radical Islam tell us why language and naming things is
Important two things are important naming things uh language and memory in this matter language and memory language is important important because it is the only way to draw the line in this circumstance inside Islam between the Democratic Islam and the radical Islam if we are not able to use
The right words we will be unable to draw the line to make the separation inside the world of Islam between those who embrace a a peaceful Democratic Islam and those who use Islam in order to justify a crime so wording is capital and the two mistakes would be mistake number one to
Say islamism and is radical islamism and Islam is the same thing stupidity number one stupidity number two radical islamism and Islam or jihadism and have nothing to do it is stupidity number two so it’s because they’re both untrue the both both are untrue and the the the the whole work of
An intellectual of anyone who has a public parole should be to to to help the Muslim themselves to to encourage them to draw this line between one Islam and the other one to use a phrase of an American who was not my friend Samuel Huntington The Clash of
Civilization the only Clash I know the only clash of civilization I know is The Clash inside the big world of Islam between those who sincerely want uh Embrace much with human rights democracy or Iration to democracy and those who are probably certainly minority who use Islam in order to justify crime wording is
Capital number two memory is capital if we want to explain what is happening today this phenomenon of jihadism it did not appear today MH it did not fall from the sky even if they believe that it did not come from the sky it came from the
Past and you cannot explain the the the flame of jihadism today if you don’t go back long time ago probably to the 20s in the 20th of the 20th century end of the 20s beginning of the 30s there has been a big world phenomenon which we we all know which is
The phenomenon of the Nazism okay it was a phenomenon a revolution which which inflamed Europe Japan some PE little pieces of America you had America first and so on you had that certainly Italy of course Italy and the Arabic world you had a wing of of
Nazism in uh the Muslim world it was the Muslim Brotherhood the Muslim Brotherhood was founded at the end end of the 20s as um a part of this big fascist movement which was the the which pretended to be and in a way was the mainstream of the time but did anyone
The big difference between Europe and for example Iraq Syria or Egypt or Palestine the big difference is that in Europe after the defeat of the Nazism there was a work difficult not completed completely uh hard to do but a work of mourning of memory and an attempt to eradicate from the national cultures
This plague in France it took time in Germany it was done more quickly and it was done in a rather proper way the pro one of the problems of the Arab world is that the work was not only not done but was not even um um begun why because The
Narrative of this part of the world after the second world war was that fascism was just a European phenomenon that as the the SK the The Cloud of chernobil which was supposed in France to have stopped at the border there was the idea that the cloud of fascism had
Stopped at the border of the Islamic which was not true Muslim Brotherhood bass movements in Iraq and in Syria but when you say that the thing did not exist that the cloud arrived just at the border you have nothing to withdraw you have nothing to mourn you have no work
To do so the work was not done and also rejected right you’re saying it wasn’t even properly rejected it wasn’t acknowledged it wasn’t because it was not acknowledged it was not rejected and because it was not rejected it is still remaining and it remains where it remains in Hamas it remains in Muslim
Brotherhood all over this part of the world and it remains in alosra in al-Qaeda and in dases the last Pearl which is which has been dropped by the oyster of the fascism of the 30s is Isis today well are we now so words plus memory so are we now given what you said
And that was an excellent explanation are we much more you’re saying this is exactly what we need to do is to speak of this as Islamic fascism to actually name it because it never was properly named before exactly but we’re being told not to speak of it in terms of
Islam at all okay we have been told but I I I did it I wrote a book uh which I I think is not translated in America in 199 19 94 1994 which was which which which was called Dangerous Purity uh 21 years ago and I tried to
Find the the secret thread the Common Ground between Nazism communism and radical islamism I tried to build the common concept which helps to think the three together and in this book I proposed the formula of Islam fascism I Pro I propose the the word because it seemed to me appropriate number one to
Name the phenomenon number two to say why where it was coming from and number three in order not to um put all the the the whole Islam in the in this basket which thanks God is not the reality I still believe that a big part of Islamic world may probably a
Majority of it has nothing to do with Fascism and you have in the Muslim world as we had in Europe in the 30s a resistance strong one to this Islam fascism but in order to encourage this resistance in order to give this resistance inside the Arab world against
Fascism some weapons some arguments some help we have to name the enemy here’s another uh comment that I I and we’ll pick up another theme here you said what holds us back and then he says as one point you say what is it about this war that the America of Barack
Obama at least for the moment seems not to really want to win now one thought is that I have one of one of my favorite uh BHL books is left in dark times and it uh among its many arguments is to talk about the way the left abandoned the core themes of
What it means means to be part of the left liberalism democracy Justice uh the rule of law in favor of a kind of thinking that is fundamentally anti-colonialism anti americanism anti-israel uh so the F the foundational themes of the left were abandoned for just hating capitalism hating America hating white privilege and imperialism
And I wonder how much of this is played out I mean I don’t know whether there there’s a PC movement in Paris but we we struggle here on college campuses and I my little joke about NYU it’s not NYU it’s every campus in the United States there’s certain things that are just not
Said incredibly unfashionable thing to say what frankly BHL has said for the last 20 minutes um the whole thing um but I wonder whether there’s a way to understand this in that Narrative of the for the the older left you know uh because you know you’ve been a member
Of the left but they’ve been beating up on you for years you you know you’ve been both the darling and The Whipping Boy of the same group um but it does seem is that part of this difficulty of framing the language comes from that as long as America is behind it or Israel’s
Behind it it’s just bad and so we’re just it’s just simply much more fashionable to say we will even be the strangest of bedfellows will support sadan you know B darur because they’re anti-American even though they’re genocidal Maniacs right will support Hamas because they hate the Israelis no
Matter what they no matter what they do if you hate capitalism if you hate democracy if you hate colonialism if you hate White Privilege you’re not our friend and I wonder if you want to talk about this because so much of this has been part of your career fighting
Against this struggle between not just the Clash of civilization but the Clash of of ideas among intellectuals there is two different uh things in your question first of all Obama and then darur and so on uh um and the two your two questions I could I would reply to them
By referring to concrete example uh when I said that about Obama um the war he he does not want to win the war against dases seems to me to be the war strange L of he do what what did I mean I was just coming back from uh
Iraq and Syria a few weeks ago I’m happening to to to shoot these days these weeks this recent point a documentary about the 1,000 kilomet 1,000 kilom of front line between the Kurds and dases Das is beheading jams F and killing the people who music in B but they are also
Fighting on one front line of what kilom the CDs who are fighting back who are fighting back and by the way they are much stronger and uh the the Isis is less Brave when they face real Battlers and and soldiers as the Kurds than when
They are in front of a man with the hands like this on the knees waiting for the knee who who’s a journalist by the way journalist they are very brave terrorists and they are cward soldiers so what struck me when I when I made it took me two months with with my crew
With my camera these 1,000 kilometers what struck me is that it was not an unwinable War at all it not only it was not unwinable but each time I was eyewitness of some clashes between the Kurds and Isis I saw and I film and you will see soon Isis escaping and the
Kurds advancing so I could not prevent myself from thinking that there is not the real will to defeat Isis and to be more precise there might be the will in the Free World in general but maybe in America more than anywhere else there might be
The idea that I at the end of the day um a reserve of jihadists a bin in pel at jihadist and closing their border might not be such a bad thing there might be this calculation that it would be better to contain but not destroy this reserve of
That’s what I meant when I said the war we don’t really want to wait win because it’s winnable it’s more than winnable again if we if we if we give to the Cur the proper weapons the proper instructions the the the strategical command because they belong to a
Coalition it will be done easily you can compare Isis to Nazism for the ideology but certainly not for the strength nothing comparable between the ver which was a huge power and the Isis who are again bad soldiers and cward I was in the I filmed the Battle of sjar few weeks
Ago uh there was no battle nearly no battle because the the Isis run away without battling that is about Obama now left not left for me the the most important the core of the ideal of the left of my youth which is still today is internationalism internationalism means
What it means Unity of of mankind Brotherhood of all victims that there is not good and bad victims and so internationalism what I kept from that from the time when I was a Marxist leninist is that that there is no difference between victims if you are uh white or
Black your skin if you are Jew or Muslim if you are from Europe or from the Pakistan and what strikes me what dispair me what puts me in anger is when I see some of the leftist of today who choose their victims and who choose them
In function of what in function of a so-called supposed geopolitics the same who go in the streets to scream their indignation which I can understand when there is 1,800 uh people of Gaza killed I can understand that They Mourn that myself each child Palestinian child dead by
Collateral um attack is a disaster they never go in the street to protest against not the 1,800 but the 20 and 26,000 Deads Syria of Syria they never go in the street to protest against the million I never saw them when I was in the street of Paris to protest against
The 1 million Deads of Rwanda no one of them was there 6 million congales when the darur 400,000 Deads no one was there this for me is a real Scandal this double standard this idea of good and bad victims this is a scandal of our time I remember a few
Years ago 10 years ago there is a a great journal in France with you all know it which is M and Lon was directed at this time by two great guys Jean Marie colani and Ed plenel and they asked me to make some stories some reportage I said yes on one condition
Which both of them accepted immediately let’s go I I will go to report on the wars of today of which the public opinion in particular the left never speaks because these Wars don’t match with a big narrative According to which you have on one side the Empire which is America on
The other side the former colonies and there was six Wars which was Angola Burundi which was threatened to become another Randa Sri Lanka darur nuba mons nobody spoke about nuba montains uh a slow extermination but nobody cared because the Jews were not implied Israel could not be CRI they they could seek as
Much they could not criminalize Israel and America was on the good side Colin poell at this time made a a little Express trip uh in Sudan to say this is not good so he was on the he was on the side of the victims victims endorsed by
Colin poell are not victims for a lot of people in the world uh victims um who could be um um endorsed by Israel or who could be friend with Israel are bad victims false victims criminal victims suspect victims and this makes me crazy and I oppose to that that’s true the
Real values of the internationalism to which I have been faithful all my life I tell you another story you remember Durban Durban which was a a conference in South Africa South afca the anti-racism it was an anti-racist conference with a lot of NGS Gathering to protest Against Racism slavery and
Discrimination and the only the the the meeting ended with a crowd of extreme of leftist ngos shouting against Israel with this famous motto one Jew one bullet one Jew one bullet this is what the end of Durban this is an anti-racism conference anti-racism conference the end of that was that
Israel was guilty of all the disorder of of the world that Israel was the most criminal state in the world and that every Jew deserved one bullet the conference ended with that it for me it raised two problems number one it was the act of of baptism
Of B the climax I would say of the new anti-Semitism which is based on the hatred of Israel only for that it was a scandal and there was a shame on all the participants of this conference but there was another shame for me and I wrote that immediately at this time 10
Years ago I remember all the representatives of these poor people of Bundi of Rwanda of the Untouchable in India the last cast of tribes forgotten tribes of Mexico or of Nicaragua who wanted their RS to be recognized they came all these people they came to Durban with such a hope with the idea
That for the first time thanks to the United Nation they will have a stage to express their demands and their rights and they were not given the parole they were not given the possibility to expresss because they could not prove they could not take their passport showing that their enemy was Israel and
The America and the US so they were out of frame they were out of debate and they were out of parole and they went away from Durban with a big sorrow in the heart and with still Tears in their eyes and for me this was the second Scandal of
J the other night you and I had dinner uh organized by our friend Michael landow Michael don’t say I never gave you a shout out uh we were sitting with our friend George Klein same to you uh and we sat with a number of un ambassadors uh this is how this guy
Rolls you have dinner bunch of un ambassadors show up um and uh you know we we were having this conversation you may recall and we talked about again this connection between you know having a discussion an open discussion about Islam and jihadism and and terrorism and and these were very well-intentioned
People uh one of the people one was actually Christian although she was an ambassador for an Arab country and there was this sense of how dare you paint us so broadly uh any suggestion you know you’re dealing with a billion and we keep hearing a billion and a half people
And uh you’re now engaging in Collective responsibility and you have recently and so to them this was there’s no connection again between Islam and terrorism but one of the things that you’ve said forthrightly that we don’t hear much about either is we’re not hearing enough from the Islamic world
The language that you frame not in our name simply saying this is not us and we repudiate this and I thought you would want to talk about this more because what we have instead much more defensiveness instead of an open honest conversation you know I mean other than
Bill Maher no one else is willing to say this and look how upset Ben AFF like God it is it is a half through uh number one it is a necessity because if if it is true that there is a battle inside Islam between Islam and
Islam uh it it is the affair of the Muslims first and there is a responsibility for the most Brave of them for the most enlightened of them for the clerics to give arguments to those who might balance who might hesitate and in order to attract them in
The camp of democracy they have to say not in our name it’s it’s an emergency that the biggest number possible of clerics and say to to the PE to to some of the of the Muslims who are like like a lot of people hesitant not so brave at the end
Of the day courage is not and I understand that that everybody is not courageous but there is a responsibility for some to give to those who are who hesitate some arguments some courage and some boldness the only way to say it is to is to say clearly these uh conception of the
Sharia this conception of the of the umah this idea of jihad is heretic is not the Islam which should be embraced in the 21 century if there is a growing number of clerics who say that who do this work on the words again only these three words by the way Jihad um and
Sharia mhm if you had some clerics really explaining to the vast crowd of Muslims that uh Jihad could be is must be I don’t know I’m not Muslim um a spiritual an an intimate requirement a spiritual path and so on it would be a great job
So this is a necessity does it happen more and more in England you had this great movement not in our name which was launched two years ago in Paris it begins prime minister of France Manuel vals launch an appeal in this sense and he was heard few weeks ago you had
400 big eminences of French Islam who said that not in our name uh and you have it Morocco for example I gave the example last night uh not only of not in our name but um some uh human rights reforms which have been engaged in Morocco in the name of Quran
Of a certain reading of Quran so the process begins not enough not strong enough but it um it it begins and it’s absolutely crucial we were a few days ago two days ago we were with my friend Michael Londo who is here tonight and whom you you you saluted before two
Shout out we were celebrating uh participating to the celebration of Nostra which is the this great cath Revolution inside Catholicism part of Vatican 2 part of Vatican 2 who made the peace who who ask forgiveness for the anti-Semitism of two millon and to acknowledge that Jews are not
Forever responsible for the killing of that they are not responsible for killing Christ that they are part of Sal salvation and they are not only the fathers of the Christians but the brothers which make which make the whole difference because the father is is destined is doomed to die and to give
Place to the to the son brother they are equal and so and can coexist the whole concept of interfaith dialogue is traceable to so nost is a great date in the in the modern history because it really began and uh contributed a lot to uproot the Christian anti-Semitism uh by doing that by
Transforming the relationship father son old Alliance old Alliance New Alliance into a relationship between two brothers equal having an equal right to pretend to to to to save the world to save themselves to to repair tun the world and so on okay but what I want to
Say is that if you see at nost two things happened in no number one a reconciliation with another Faith which is the Jewish faith and number two a a work on of of Catholicism on itself let’s imagine a no in Islam it would mean it could mean the two things number one reconciliation
With the Jews as the Christian did because there is a legend a narrative which is partly a legend that again anti-Semitism is only a Christian Affair and that the Islam was never anti-semite which is not true there is a Muslim anti-semitism since long there is also history of friendship I quoted the other
Night again the Sultan of Morocco Mohammad 5 great story great story who refused the red the yellow star of the Jews of Morocco and he was very brave and he he resisted he revolted against the vishi regime to say the Jews are my citizens they’re under my protection I
Refuse the yellow St at enormous personal risk personal risk he own life his own liberty Etc so there is a great story of friendship between Jews and Arabs but also a great story of anti-Semitism so let’s dream of an Nostra in the Muslim world it would me number
One a beginning of reconciliation with the Jews asking forgiveness as the pope did when the Pope John Paul II came on the cotel to put the at the end of the day why should uh the Arab leaders or the Arab spiritual figures who have part of the guiltiness
Of the expel of so many Jews from their judan fry land would not do the same but number two the Catholic Church made a a real work on itself on on its own text a ring of the the the evang it would be great no on the Muslim
No would mean that also a work on the words a reinterpretation of some frozen verses to reopen some verses of the Quran which have been closed and shut and Frozen in a in a meaning which might have matched with anent times but not with our age no just like Christ
Killers went away essentially with Vatican 2 exactly so uh Beyond not only not in our name the real expectation which is not my expectation it is the expectation of so many Muslims in the world I heard so many times friends in Saro uh friends in in Kosovo friends in Turkey friends in Morocco
Friends in Tunisia to say the same a Nostra would consist number one in a reconciliation with the other Faith but number two in a reconciliation with oneself by uh making U um um reorganization reinterpretation of their own textuality in order to breathe themselves better how can you breathe how can you feel
Like a complete free man when you live under a a text and a Dogma which is supposed to have been given once and forever without any possible explanation commentary adaptation the Jews have invented the great thing this is the best the the probably the best invention of the of the
Judaism is not Einstein is not Freud is not Marx orag nothing not Bagels either the best invention is talmud talmud since the beginning means that there is no sacred word which should not be subject to a complexification to an interrogation to a multi-meaning process talmud means that a word Can Be
Saint but that it can be open to a polysemia it can be the stage of a real contradiction and a real dispute one of the greatness of the Jewish people one of the thing I am most proud for my people is that this idea that at the
Same time a word can be Saint and that at the same time it can be the object of an infinite contradiction opposition quarrel and disputes Let’s uh I’m going to take some question before I take some questions from the audience uh let’s let’s talk about Jews and
France um the killings at the kosher market back in January were did not also did not happen in isolation uh during the Gaza War uh uh 200 Jews were trapped in a synagogue in sou of Paris with an angry mob shouting Jews Jews to the gas or Hamas Hamas jued
To the gas uh we know that uh years ago uh Elon halimi was tortured by a gang of Barbarians he’s a Jewish young man who worked in a cell phone shop who was kidnapped and tortured for 28 days 29 days uh there was the Jewish Day School
In tulo where the rabbi and two children the children were I think decapitated uh by an an islamist or shot by an islamist on a motorcycle um and after last year’s uh kosher market killings uh it was reported that 15,000 Jews would leave Paris and go to Israel and that in the
Prior several years 5,000 Jews each were leaving to Israel uh that’s an astonishing number 5,000 incredible hemorrhaging uh the prime minister of France immediately said France without Jews is not France uh you’re not planning on moving uh but is this a serious worry uh is it possible that 70 years after the
Liberation of of aitz that Europe would become jewelist that the largest Jewish country in Europe France uh is no longer a home for Jews is this possible this seems to me one of the real stories of the year 2015 that we haven’t really talked about Jews will Jews only live in Israel and
The United States or will they continue to thrive throughout Europe I will be very Frank with you uh very Frank I it is true all all the examples you gave are true and uh they are more than concerning it is horrible and I would even say that uh even in the
30s uh I think there was not um killings in the streets of tulus or of Paris and not kidnapping of anyal in the 30s that is true and uh I would be the last one to minimize that do I think that because of this France is no longer home for the Jews no
No I don’t think it and I don’t think it for the following reason of course anti-Semitism is strong um it exists and I am um by Philosophy by temperament I believe that anti-Semitism will never disappear even in America by the way mhm even in America and we we
Could speak of America not New York but the rest of America I’m not so sure that America is immune of anti-Semitism so anti-Semitism will not disappear and it is embedded in the French ideology it was a title of an old book I published 30 years ago that is clear
But uh anti-Semitism is weak today it it may seem strange to say that but it is true in the France of today the anti-semites are weak why are they weak for three reasons number one because they are stupid no no seriously when you compare the situation
Of today to the situation of the let’s take two example D draus Affair peak of anti-Semitism and 30s he the the draus affair just to draus Affair draus Affair you had some great big Spirits big brains who were the leaders of ftis like Maurice Barz one of the best French
Writers was a a terrible Arabic enraged anti-semite in the 30s some of the best French writers Paul Louis ferino Seline who was who is who was a genius one of the reinventors of the French literature we big shouters on fantas today who is morrice Barz who is the equivalent of Louis ferino
Mron Mr they are nothing you know who that is that’s the they don’t know I thank God I hope you don’t know because they are nobody they are stupid little activist narrow minded uh rednecks of France there are nobody and and it’s important to point out also that what
What BHL said before about the limitations of the First Amendment in France uh he’s banned the French the French government number one there are nobody number two the great difference is that in the 30s and in beginning of the 20th end of the 19th century the anti-semite parole words
Were open Open Sky and not only open sky but they were um you had some anti-semites in the very body of the Republic you had some EMP is who anti you had some Minister who was anti-semite the more the fiercest French anti-semite of the 30s was called Mr D
Dep pelpa horrible man a few years after he was commissioned by the by the Nazi to be the commissary for Jewish Affairs in Paris in 1936 the year of the popular front the most leftist assembly France had ever July 9 1936 there was the election of the president of the Assembly of the
French Congress he was there was two candidates a good guy who was edu and this terrible anti-semite D PPA he had 160 votes for him this is today unconceivable you cannot quote one MP one Minister one opponent who has the slightest weakness for anti-Semitism when Manuel vals prime minister of
France decides to ban the redneck M balala Jon nobody oppose him nobody says how dare you he has the consensus of all the political forces so this is a second big difference which makes me say that the anti-em are weak in the 30s at the draus
Affair they were at the peak of the State they had the the Keta the P of the anti has been achieved before Nazi they they were already in the state today they out of the institution second difference third difference with the 30s and with the dfus affair the Jews are
Strong in France and in Europe in general they the Jews are strong not strong because of of like Edward Ron and the old anti-em believe because they have some bonds uh in invested in Jewish banks no they are strong of values they are strong of this Talent which I quoted to
Interpretate the to to make the talmud they are strong of this art of commentary which has enriched so much the French culture they are strong of their own Pride which is Rec admitted recognized and praised by most of the French society and what a difference with their grandfathers and Grand
Grandfathers in the 30s the Jews were weak the Jews hardly dared to say they were Jews when they when they said that they were Jews they said but don’t worry Jews means nearly nothing Jews first of all is not talmud is just Torah and Torah don’t worry Torah is just a few laws
Which are very similar to the law of the French Revolution there was a sort of minimization of Judaism which was um uh emptied uh voided of all its content to be able to enter in the wall and to enter in the in the big shadow of French
Ideology today it is the opposite so when you put the three things together not one big voice thanks God voicing the anti-Semitism the whole Republic saying like Manuel vs like franceand and like Nicolas SAR France without Jews would not be France great quote when you think about it great quote nobody would have
Said that in the 30s or in the D and when we add you add to this the strength the moral intellectual spiritual strengths of the Jews and especially of the young Jews it create a situation where the least I can say is that the Battle Is
Possible and it that it would be a big strategical mistake to leave the field notice how animated he was you should know and yes he deserves I think you should know that in March Random House random house will be publishing bh’s newest book which is entitled The Genius of the
Jews and he may have given you a preview of that right here uh here’s a question from the audience that I will supplement a little uh in 2011 you literally spearheaded the United Nations movement and the movement in France to come to the aid of the Benghazi rebels in Libya
In an effort to oust uh Gaddafi and bring about a new regime of democratic reforms hopefully in human rights um of course that was when America was leading from behind the French were out in front and Gaddafi was finished and it was considered an amazing achievement and
This woman or this man from the audience says did we do the right thing in Libya and I suspect he or she wants to know Libya is now filled with terrorism and it is it it there there’s a cause of great cynicism United States goes we get rid of Saddam Hussein the
World is supposed to be better off and now there’s Isis in Iraq uh Gaddafi is gone there’s there’s terrorism all throughout you know Yemen wherever we go and there’s this tremendous failure of Arab Spring there’s a reason to despair it seems as if if you have a choice you
Either have an authoritarian strong man who who beats up on the Muslim Brotherhood or you liberate the country from the strongman authoritarian and then you have variations of the Muslim Brotherhood and it makes one Wonder were we better off before the world was surely better off without Gaddafi but
Are the libyans better off now are the syrians not the syrians the the Iraqis afghanis uh even in Tunisia Arab Spring is now looks like it’s a failure number one U I would reply three things again there’s a pattern in Libya what did we what did the the
France America and Arab League and Arab League did we prevented Libya to become another Syria this is what we have to get to keep in mind which is a huge because Libya is of course disorder in Libya you have two pockets of jihadism and in Libya you had
Probably 20 to 30,000 Deads uh probably less than that Syria the then this is the result of the intervention the result of the non intervention in Syria of the two patterns two paradigmas paradigma of intervention two pockets of of J of dases few thousand Deads and disorder
The model of non- intervention Syria the product is not a few thousand but 260,000 Deads not two pockets to areas of jism but half of the country becoming a jihadist state which is not the case in Libya in Libya you have some cells but
Not a state dases as far as I know is in Iraq and in Syria yeah and number three not disorder but absolute chaos so we prevented Libya to become another Syria mean it could have been much much worse did of course did we do enough no and um
This is my opinion it is well it is known in France I think that we should not have uh considered our task finished after the toppling of KFI this is the first point the second point is that at the scale of the of the big history at the scale of the long run
Time we gave the proof with the westerners for the first time it was the first time in the history of uh the Arab world that we did not show that we were naturally automatically fatally by fatality the allies of the Tyran of the despots against the peoples
Since ages the Arab average people those who we want to say not in our name those who we wish and hope to see declare the war against Jihad since centuries they see the West taking the party of the dictators against them for the first time in Libya they saw the reverse they
Saw that without any interest without any calculation just forance duty of involvement just because of Human Rights some French planes and went to defeat a dictator and this believe me for a lot of young people in this disaster which is the world of today for
A lot of young people in the in the Muslim world this is great news and this is a good seed in in the brain this is what you would have wanted to see with the take false elections in Iran where the symbolic value of showing those people that are interested in Democratic
Reforms that we are out here and we support you we we are and uh uh for me it was it was key that some westerners and some Jews and me as a Jew show to these young libyans that they are responsible of their Destiny they will build democracy
Or not build democracy it will take one century like in France or maybe they will be quicker than the French I don’t know but at least we did not ban them from democracy we did did not believe in a racist way that the world was divided
Into two those who have the right to democra to democracy and those who have no right to democracy the very fact that we said that for the future is a good deed number three we are in a Jewish house in a way when um um AAR and Ishmael are in the desert
When they are at the edge of Dying of Thirst the the god of the Jews decide to save them the Angels say but why do you do that Ishmael is going to have some descendants who will be the enemy of the chosen people of your sigul of your treasure
People and God says to the angels shut up I have to say I have to avoid the little blood bath whatever the consequences I cannot let this little baby uh dry under his sort of Kayon same about Kayon for the prophet Jonas when Jonas is ordered by God to go to to ninive
Which is the worst city in the world which is the tripo of the time n is Tripoli of this time Jonas does not Jonas says like the the question why why do why should I go to ninive why are all my colleagues Prophet Joel Amos jeremi
Ordered to go to speak to the two Kingdom of Israel and me I’m I’m condemned to go to speak to this bastard of nin who are my enemies Whom It is written that they will turn again and God oblig him he goes to the fish then he swallowed on the beach and he’s
Obliged compelled to go and it was the same in Benghazi you cannot because of the possible consequences you as a human being as a Democrat as a believer in the Creeds which we share Americans and France and you as a Jew you cannot accept the hundreds of thousand of
Ishmael of Bazi the hundreds of thousand of nits of Benghazi to be transformed into a Butchery to be drawned in the rivers of blood which was promised to Kadafi if you are faithful to the I I speak for myself and with my heart now and not not geopolitical or philosophical
Calculation if you are faithful to the to the value use which I inherited by the first man in history of mankind Who Bore my name you cannot accept the blood bath in Benghazi because democracy will take time and because there will be chaos and because there will be a fewu
Infiltration of dases you cannot admit nin to be destroyed BHL let me just say I’ve done this for a long time and you and I have been friends for a long time and I’m so grateful that you were here but you are such an an incredibly decent uh elegant
And courageous man uh a true intellectual and moral uh uh treasure on the international scene and the world is so much better with you in it thank you for joining Us
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