Welcome to the Tyler’s place podcast the official podcast of the Scottish right of Freemasonry Southern jurisdiction mother Supreme Council of the world I am your host Matt Bowers 32nd degree and also if I may add we were named on feedspot.com in the top 20 of top Masonic podcasts you can check them out
Feedspot.com I will include the link to that website in the notes for everyone to check out but moving right along uh this is part two in my little series that I put together on catechism instructors and up next regarding fellowcraft catechism is brother Dan mum
Dan is a brother at my blue Lodge here in Maryland and also a 32nd degree Scottish Wright Mason and while a lot of the questions are similar to what I asked brother Bob lonic in the previous episode clearly this is a fellow crap Centric conversation Dan’s very first
Class as an instructor was my fellowcraft catechism class A group of nine very different very individual Brothers ranging in age from 29 at the time to over 60 we shared a lot of laughs a lot of fun a lot of learning for sure and a little bit of hair
Pulling out for some of us that still have some left over memorizing all this stuff so without taking up any more of your time with my introduction I’m going to let you listen to my conversation with brother Dan mum What Drew you to be one of the instructors for this degree specifically and you know was it the opportunity the message there’s always an opportunity to be in the line they’re always looking for that that’s for sure why not why not why do this instead of jumping the line
Yeah yeah yeah um just a little little bit of background then as as I was coming in through my initia process uh I I was incredibly impressed by it just all the time and energy and and the enthusiasm of the brothers that were involved in my eventually raising and
All that enthusiasm really helped make my experience a really nice positive experience warm experience welcoming experience um seeing the enthusiasm and the level of commitment from some people to be really welcoming other people to just get the ritual right and and you know everybody contributed in different
Ways and I felt like because my experience was strong I felt it wouldn’t be really nice to pass that along to Brothers behind me and offer some of that same in the hopes that their experiences as you know is is as As Nice And as an
Experienced as mine was and so the ask went out at about that same time from the worshipful master at the at the time Richard therfield but was hey maybe it would be a good idea all incoming Brothers have some way of giving back to the lodge and the lodge doesn’t just
Support itself it’s not an entity it’s that we are the lodge so the ask was well what might we all do to help contribute to that uh the well-being of the lodge and and okay I actually did instructor is one of the things I that I
Stuck my hand up for but I decided hey you know um I getting in line seemed like a bit of a overstepping because I was so new at the time I was six months in six months raised right right not even that long I felt like I knew the
Degrees really well having just completed the process felt like that would be a good way for me to to give to give back to the to the process and so so I raised my hand as a as an instructor I mean I also raised my hand eventually not much later
To join the Board of Trustees for the the physical Lodge itself right and you know then I moved on to some you know attending bodies like Scottish rights you Etc and um and so all of those things combined Take Time free masonry it’s an organization like a lot
Of organizations that you know as much time as you have or or don’t have um you can make it fit your availability your your proverbial your length of your cable toe right yeah and this fits my cable toe well I can commit to to being an instructor once twice a week for a
Portion of the year as that class comes through being in the line for me anyway I’m not at that place I feel in my personal life my professional life that I can commit to doing it justice to be in the line in the blue Lodge for
Example I found out about an hour ago that I need to be in Atlanta on Monday for the for the week and if I had if I had officer commitments next week that would be kind of awkward right yeah so I I I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few
Years as my kids finish college as know work changes yeah I I would I would absolutely consider it but for for me right now instructor seem to be a good way I could get back with the knowledge that I know it’s a great way to to give
Back I I enjoyed it and it’s it’s it’s fun to be able to meet the new bunch of of Brothers coming in you know and and they’re all wide-eyed and un you’re you’re seeing what what you were experiencing you know however long ago each and every time you see a new group
Of brothers come in which is it’s that’s fun to me yeah yeah and it’s I mean not long ago I remember myself looking at the instructor saying I’m supposed to remember all this right really but so it’s it’s fun to walk people through that talk people
Back from the ledge okay look you know let’s let’s address it this way and it’s it’s really not nearly as daunting as you think reminding everybody that look hundreds of thousands of Brothers before us have all done this so it’s it’s clearly not some task meant to filter
Out the people who can’t do it that’s not it’s not the purpose right so let’s figure it out and we’ll we’ll work through the method that works for everybody to come through it right get through the memorization and it’s more than about just the memorization too but the memorization obviously it’s there
For a reason our lodge I think a lot of lodges hopefully commit that that the rituals the ritual work is there and it’s meant to be preserved in its form it was originally conceived in a certain way with certain language and so let’s do it the Justice
It deserves by spending the time to do the memorization but let’s in the process let’s move past it understand more than just memorizing it right yeah yeah and and we can dig into that right now what is what is your method to to teaching a catechism class that works
Best for you and how do you tie the the message of the degree with the task of memorizing everything yeah yeah interesting question because that’s the same question every initiate asks yeah how are we going to do this yeah so for me my own style I I can’t just memorize
Something I can know something memorizing it that I’m not so good at if I know it then okay I can I can remember the specific words so so that’s what I I what I really start with is so let’s let mean let’s understand first how to pronounce it let’s so I
Start just at a basic level look let’s just do a walkr let’s read the words on the page get them out there in the open and then then let’s start come backwards and let’s try to make it conversational so I try to introduce all right it’s not just a monotone recitation right let’s
Inject Cadence and inflection punctuation so it’s more natural speech if you will although we all know who’ve been through it some of the speech is words we rarely have ever used well as I as I like to say you know Brothers back then they had two options they were e
They could either become literate or watch the grass grow you know and when and they were literate they they weren’t messing around yeah yeah right but but trying to make it feel somewhat conversational sure uh for for me seemed to work and for the brothers I’ve worked with seemed I mean
You you for example um I’ve got the unusual or unique relationship that you were my my class yeah uh and so I could ask you did did you feel that having some conversational aspect to it or was was helpful at all conversation is is not maybe necessarily one of the first
Things I thought of but definitely there has to be Cadence there has to be a rhythm there has to and you know as well as I do there’s some of those guys that that have no sense of that just unless there is something physically punctuated on a
Page and and by punctuated not because we we read a cipher book we you know there there’s no secret what we read it’s not actual written word it’s it’s a cipher it’s a code for all intents and purposes and there’s certain punctuation in that but there’s really no other
Punctuation in that so un for some guys unless it’s physically on there like I said they just kind of they just run keep going and I mean I’m still I’ve had three classes so far so I’m I’m still iterating revising my own my own approach but but I I’ve started
Injecting along the way pausing for a moment and saying uh relating as we come across a certain point in the the ritual in the catechism that of course for people who don’t know I’m I’m I don’t know if everyone who might be a potential listener would would know the
Catechism is in large part very related to The Experience you actually had at the time the actual ritual to the time the the catechism is very very related to that right so I try then to start relating it’s it’s very overwhelming for most people when they’re in the midst of
The the process of being initiated or the process of being you know being raised eventually Etc you or passed to fellowcraft in this case yep it’s a big deal that you don’t know what to expect going into it uh you don’t know how long this is going to go you don’t know
Obviously you’ve never seen it before you don’t know in the back of your mind you’re probably thinking how much of this am I going to need to remember and so through all of it you know it it’s kind of can become a sort of a blur so
When when we go through the the the catechism itself I try to relate the points that hey so at this point do you remember that we were doing this that we said these things and so and so came over and said this or for that and oh
Yeah I remember that right so yeah so so now let’s let’s start visualizing it and relating it to your to the experience that you had it’s not just words on a paper it’s it embellishes on the experience that that you had I mean and even now I I I like watching new
Brothers get initiated oh yeah more than just because I like seeing new people join the fraternity but watching the process and remembering it know how how I felt going going to to the same process and the same as getting passed to second degree or being raised to
Third I I like seeing what other people’s you know how other people experience it for themselves and it reminds me you know uh of of the the lessons and kind of um reinforces the the the Proverbs if you think of it that way that that are the are the meaning of
Those catechisms sure well and and that leads a little bit into the next one I I think you know with with Entered Apprentice degree that’s really the introduction to everything you know you’re you’re totally clueless as to whatever you’re getting a cipher book you look at that you go what on Earth am
I getting myself into like you said I gotta memorize all this stuff and Master Mason catechism Grand Finale right right exactly so where does that leave the second degree in the middle right well well yeah and and and the Master Mason is much more of the meat and potatoes
It’s the real business that you’re you know quote unquote going to be performing as a as a Mason I think and fellowcraft strikes me uh a bit more of the it’s a bit more on the esoteric line of the three craft degrees especially with the the pillars and the battles
Portion um are there other portions that of that degree that you of the esoteric is an interesting choice of words what would you use boy foundational sure first degree is your absolute Foundation your your your for first introduction I find in the second degree uh my own experience and the brothers
That I’ve spoken with since have have have related that often times that okay now it’s start I’m starting to get it I’m starting I’m starting to connect some of the the things like the patterns the themes the the the recurring themes and there’s a lot in masonry of
Symbolism and allegory and names and there’s a lot of things that once introduced early on they become part of the Lexicon and part of the that you see them you hear them later right right and so I I like pointing out to people hey you hear this um remember that that one
That one may may or may not be important later especially for if you continue on to some other uh attendant bodies let’s say the Scottish right like in my case for example yep the most people may or may not know that that the Scott Scottish right takes it from fourth
Degree all the way up into the 32nd degree and if for the honored few 33rd yep but 32 is where the additional catechisms proceed through there’s no 33rd degree catechism per se right but but those additional catechisms again the it’s there’s more of anybody who ever read this is going to sound silly
Anybody ever read Game of Thrones or or or some of these Epic kind of novels where the the the themes and the and the everything weaves back together and the the characters recur whoever over time accumulated the body of work that is the know the first
Three degrees but all the way up to 32 seriously put a lot of thought into all of this and and they didn’t do it just for fiction either they they I mean let’s remember it’s not about just the words in the catechisms it’s at the end
Of the day it’s the well we take good men and make them great right because it’s it’s about the moral lessons and well you know I find when I speak to friends of mine or family you know oftentimes people have a hard time separating they think well isn’t isn’t
You know masonry kind of like a religious thing like no it’s not it’s honestly not I feel a lot of people have a hard time separating the difference between a moral lesson versus a religious lesson right because most people learned if you’re a Mason you had some religious background presumably and
Most people in that religious background were taught moral lessons through the lens specifically of a particular religious view well those moral lessons if you look at the classic I’m I’m not exactly a trained Theologian but if you look at the classic religions they all have the same common set of moral
Lessons and it boils down to just how to be decent to people right how to be square with people uh to be trust how to be trustable how to uh how to treat people well and and expect them to treat you those are the moral lessons that are in the they in the
Catechisms that I I really enjoy them now well your obligations yeah yeah and and uh you know that’s actually my favorite part of the second degree is is the second degree’s obligation it’s um without saying too much it’s a bit longer uh and adds a couple of bits more
Than the obligation in the first degree and I like those those comments the the the the couple of things that you stand stand in front of your brethren and you commit in front of your brethren with no no small there’s importance upon the fact you’re standing there making a
Commitment to your brothers and uh it’s not like we’re going you’re I’m committing we’re going to take over the world you’re committing I’m going to treat all of you well and and and U I’m you’re going to be able to trust what I
Say and uh and Trust what I do uh so I I really like that obligation in the in the second degree you know it it this might also sound silly but it actually took me a little little bit of coming to terms with oh geez how can I profess to be a
Know catechism instructor what am I some perfect example shining example of a Freemason well I’m the best example of a Freemason that I can be at any point in time and I’m trying to be better abely yeah right right and that that’s that’s all I can that that’s all I can do
Sometimes I’m more successful than others shall shall shall we say but I mean hopefully that does help help speak to the what I view the process of Freemasonry that’s what it’s about it’s like hopefully tomorrow you’ll be a little bit better than were today and that’s kind of why I like being a
Catechism instructor because I kind of help people read the lesson in in the process of memorizing the catechism responses and things what’s the underlying message it’s it’s it’s thinly veiled message shall we say you know anybody paying attention can see oh that makes sense you know well what does it mean to
Be square with somebody well that doesn’t take it’s not hard to figure out with that right what that what that means but it’s easy to forget to do it and going going to the Masonic events participating in the catechism instruction or the in the in the in the
Ritual work itself is a is for me is a really great way to you know what just keep it top of mind what should I be thinking about what should I be trying to do and and so as an instructor that’s I I feel like I do my small part
To to helping somebody enjoy the fraternity but understand what it what the fraternity is about to the best that I can there’s a second point one of the parts I think that you would call esoteric in the second degree talk theill pillars in the battle Yeah the infamous pillars and battles Infamous to
Some people because it can be a challenge to remember those bits if you’re the one dubbed with oh that’s your question you have a little bit of memorization to do I like the pillars I I I like the pillar because it sets up there are more recurring messages that
Maybe for I think that I don’t recall them in the first degree I think it’s the first time some of those concepts are really introduced you’re exposed to them and the third thing I really like is as I mentioned before the catechism is really kind of uh I really do think
It’s meant to help you remember the ritual the ritual itself right and there is a part to the ritual where you know there’s the return to the lodge I like the sequence that follows from there because that really lays down a lot of that Foundation I’m talking about of the
The journey you can expect to go through whether you realize it or not yet right now right the the journey and the lessons that the next degree for at the very least or next 31 degrees may may lay down and so I like that return to
The lodge portion as as well so your your first class was was my my class correct correct it was first class so that was a large class our C you know I think there were nine of you right were yeah there were nine of us nine very different
Characters absolutely and I will say characters with big air quotes because we had some characters in our class but you’ve also you’ve taught small classes uh the last catechism I saw two two and and I was I was a struck because they needed very little prompting they those two those
Two brothers own hang up job they did they absolutely they knew what they were saying yeah what what do you find have you have you started to notice any advantages or disadvantages to both large Catechism classes absolutely if it were my choice although you know giving paying respect to the practicality of it
Perhaps but if it were my choice it would be a class of one because advantage of a large class is you have fewer respons responses to you that that that are yours to remember a fewer times it’s where know it’s your turn to answer a question however I’ve
Seen some people take that as an opportunity to feel to to deemphasize the the the the responses that are not you know not their response and so not only not remembering the words of it per se which I think it’s important I think all of us should be able to stand on our
Own and recite the whole thing it’s not a Monumental challenge right at least one time yeah yeah at least one time uh but I I I do feel like I’ve seen a couple of guys so I had to kind of remind them you know in in the practice
Go deliberately out of order or no order at all just to make sure hey okay F what’s all we’re all supposed to know all of the responses and there’s a reason for that right so the disadvantage of a large class or I should say the advantage of a large
Class is in itself in my view the disadvantage of a large class at the same time and conversely a small class the disadvantage that for the initiate you have to you know you have more to remember that is in fact the advantage in my view now the other aspect of it
Though is as an instructor I get to know a small Class A lot better than than than one class because you only have so much time when we meet you know it’s nice to it’s really great I think to get to know every face that comes into the lodge I
Get I have a a chance to sit with them and and meet with them for a while and it’s when it’s a really large class your chance to get to know each of the brothers is a little bit less than if you than if it’s a small class because
You know if we only have an hour for example you’ve got to get got get down to business at some point right not to mention too you you you know in a large class you might have some brothers that a little bit more reserved laidback and and other brothers that are clear
Clearly more outspoken that you’re gonna just be by their nature you’re going to get to know them a little bit easier than you would you know the more reserved brother and it may sound how do I how do I say it this way after your class there was another another
Class it was a smaller class and in the course of that class because it was a smaller class the brother coming in one of the brothers coming in and everybody has to coming through the process you’re making a commitment so hopefully along the way you’re taking it with some
Degree of um thought that you’re you’re making this decision with no coercion and of your own free mind yep if decide somewhere along the way well you know this isn’t what I thought it is or it’s just not for me no that’s okay that’s no one’s going to hold it against
You don’t go through the whole process and and being you know somewhat disingenuous if it’s if you find it you’re like I don’t want to be here right with a smaller class now unfortunately a brother did decide he didn’t want to continue he just stop showing but I I I
Would rather someone make the decision for themselves then and and I think in a smaller class they feel well you you you have to show or you have to sit in front of somebody and talk with somebody and if it’s not genuine then you know you
It’s kind of hard to fake it right right right and and some people just out of it sometimes it’s easier not to make a decision to stop something and than it is that they just okay I’ll just continue and and I would rather a brother not that I want to lose anybody
But I would rather a brother say maybe this isn’t quite for me at the time when when we have when we’re meeting one-on-one then then make a decision later on and just be a brother that we never see again right because we would like a brother to join and be an active
Member contributing member of the of the fraternity and that’s I think another Advantage I feel of the smaller class a brother who finishes the process really means to if that message comes out the way I intended it to I hope I articulated that well I think you did
Because you know if if it’s if it’s just one or two you know they’ve they’ve got to own it I mean in my own class I I was a class of five so it’s called a medium class medium yeah but but large enough though one of one of our brothers um two
Of our brothers actually through the process I I think one of them was kind of mailing it in so to speak and because no one really pushed him on it that know hey but you really want to be here right right um and so he he came up through he
Got raised and we’ve never seen or heard from him again and that’s unfort forun everybody makes their own decisions and that’s fine but again I would rather I would rather you make a decision to be an active contributing brother Right big huge enormous thanks to brother Dan mom for sitting down and having a nice little conversation with me about his experience as a fellowcraft catechism instructor and personally speaking he did such an excellent job with my class I I can’t thank him enough
For the hard work that he put into it uh helping us out every step of the way making it as much fun as possible and let’s be honest if if everything that you do is just about the work it’s never going to it’s never going to sink in in
The right way it’s it’s got to have there’s got to be some fun to it now and again and if you’re not having fun why are you doing it it’s it just it never works it doesn’t work for me that way I don’t know how it is for you but it
Doesn’t work for me that way so thank you Dan for for doing such a great job with that thank you for listening the Tyler Place podcast the official podcast of the Scottish right of Freemasonry Southern jurisdiction mother Supreme Council of the world and now in the top
20 of beep spot.com top 20 Masonic podcasts I will include that information in the notes for this podcast you can check us out on Facebook at facebook.com/ Scottish Freemasonry you can go to our main website at www.s Scottish right.org or you can check us out on YouTube Scottish wght
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On there I am map hour 32nd degree Scottish Wright Mason thanks again for listening and we’ll see you next time here at the Tyler’s place
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