The Thom Hartmann Program Live (12/19/2023)

We have a new video up over at Tom harman.com for people who are regular supporters of our program and uh the essence of it is you know I use a couple of examples there there’s there’s hundreds of them out there in one case Alabama is preparing to execute a man uh

Who was not guilty of the crime that he committed with a relatively high level of certainty but still they’re going to they’re going to kill this guy uh you know an African-American and the other story out of New York state where the police officers hog tied this guy arms

Elbows behind him tied his legs together and then threw him down a flight of stairs mangled his face he he he he he looked just he was totally beaten 12 hours later he commits suicide in his cell how is it possible that our prisons do this kind of stuff because the 13th

Amendment says that slavery is still legal in the United States you have no serious stuff going on before The Supreme Court this year uh a number of cases that I just want to flag for you because we will be talking about them as the court goes through its

Docket uh you know throughout the the rest of this year and in into next spring um just just to give you a heads up the first is the is this case around the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau it’s called cfpb versus Community Financial Services Association on its surface this is a case about payday

Lenders uh you know basically you know ripping off and exploiting average working people and particularly our military our soldiers but uh three Trump appointed judges on the US Circuit Court of Appeals for the fifth circuit ruled that the funding structure of the of the Community Financial Protection Bureau is

Unconstitutional um the the Constitution says that Congress has to appropriate funds for basically all government functions and Congress did appropriate funds for the cfpb it just specified that those funds instead of coming out of the treasury would come out of the fed and the FED has its own unique

Funding mechanism uh as does the controller of the currency and you know the and and the FDIC the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation all of those so if these guys strike if this Supreme Court strikes down this regulatory agency the cfpb just because they want to go along

With you know what the banksters want they’re going to devastate uh throw into total chaos our financial system here in the United States that’s that’s the first case that’s that’s absolutely huge then there’s ler bright Enterprise Enterprises V Rond uh which could overturn the Chevron difference the

Chevron Defence says that um it’s okay for Congress to say to uh a federal regulatory agency say the Environmental Protection Agency uh we Congress are telling you to clean up the air and then the the uh EPA goes out and hires a bunch of scientists and says okay

Where’s the air dirty what dirty air do we need to attend to how do we go ahead and clean it up and then they come up with a plan and you know good science and then they execute that plan well what’s happened here is you’ve got Republicans who have

Sued saying no wait a minute that chevr and deference that that the Federal Government Can defer to the expertise of regulatory agencies is wrong that if Congress wants to have the CO2 limits changed or the soot particulate levels in the air changed they have to pass a law that specifically says

That rather than just giving the authority to the EPA in this example to come up with what the standards should be in other words instead of the EPA hiring scientists individual members of Congress need to be hiring scientists in instead of the EPA doing the research Congress needs to do the research which

Of course you and I both know is never going to happen Congress doesn’t have the time the manow the the the the wherewithal to do this kind of thing which is why we have it done by Regulatory Agencies but that’s exactly why the right-wing billionaires are bringing this lawsuit to try to shut

Down these Regulatory Agencies and say no no Congress has to pass detailed legislation telling you exactly what they’re going to do and with its own scientists because they know it’ll never happen it’s a way of destroying the regulatory State what Steve Bannon said the the number one goal of the Trump

Administration was to deconstruct the regulatory state so that’s the second case that’s ler brigh Enterprises V Rond then you got Alexander V South Carolina State Conference of the NAACP this is a case where a three judge panel in January said that this District in South Carolina this gerrymander is uncon

Constitutional under the rules of South Carolina and under the Federal Constitution in fact they they said that it was quote an unconstitutional ra racial gerrymander because the legislators had deliberately moved tens of thousands of black voters to a different District making a safe dis making a district a safe seat for

Republicans there’s another case uh around the Second Amendment this is United States versus rahime it’s a challenge which this is totally bizarre there Republicans who brought this challenge to the Supreme Court are saying that it is unconstitutional for any government state or federal government to say that a man who has

Assaulted his wife and threatens his wife may not own a gun they they are saying that no if a you know if a if a if a spouse is abusive if a spouse has been violent that spouse has an absolute right under the Second Amendment to own a gun and

Use that gun to kill his wife well the last part of that they don’t include but you know that’s where it’s going to go so that’s us versus rahime and their their rationale for this by the way is that because in 1789 when the Constitution was ratified there

Was no such thing as a restraining order for domestic abuse that men who are under restraining orders by their wives or wives of their husbands for that matter although it’s far far more rare um cannot be subject to restraining orders because they didn’t exist in 1789 this this is The Logical

Consequence of the insanity that Anthony and Scalia brought us with the hel decision and then you know there’s the abortion case this is the alliance for hipocratico prone now the Supreme Court has not said for sure that they’re going to take this case and if they don’t then

The availability of meph aistone across the country has been severely limited and then of course there is a a a big tax case more vus that could uh eliminate the ability of the federal government to charge taxes income taxes on foreign money that has not been realized in the United

States so lots and lots of stuff here Clarence Thomas this uh you know has recused himself from one case but none of these ones that have to do with finance and billionaires and they’re calling that they you know common cause and and other groups uh this is uh are calling for

Clarence Thomas to recuse himself from these cases that involve his billionaire donors and he’s saying I ain’t going to do that these guys paid for me fair and square and I’m not going to uh I’m not going to you know go back on my deal with Haron Crow and and Paul singer and

These other guys or at least at appears that that’s essentially what Clarence Thomas is trying to say he hasn’t obviously used those exact words meanwhile in North Carolina when their state supreme court struck down their gerrymander the Republican gerrymander Maps everybody thought oh cool now now North Carolina

Is going to end up you know having a legislature and a Congressional Delegation that actually reflects the will of the PO of the people of North Carolina but then they had an election and a and the Republicans took control of their Supreme Court and their Supreme Court just reversed itself and said oh

No Jerry man not only is Jerry mandering fine you can Jerry Mander even more severely than you have up to this point which the Republicans in North Carolina are doing right now which brought Eric Willoughby a senior in high school in North mecklinburg County Huntersville um in North Carolina

Brought him before the state legislature and this is what he had to say and I thought this is absolutely brilliant this is how a lot of Zoomers are feeling right now he said I’m 17 I should be spending my Wednesday afternoons with friends or family but instead I’m here with y’all I’m here

Because every single day I have to worry about which Liberties Republican legislators are going to choose to gut next they started by refusing to take action against gun violence and destroyed your right to peace of mind about something as simple as sending your child to school then they came for

Your right to make the most basic reproductive healthc care decisions that were right for your family and you this time they’re coming for every North Carolinian right to Fair representation Eric Willoughby goes on to say 17-year-old Eric Willoughby this legislature is made up of the same people who have drawn maps that

Intentionally disenfranchise and limit the power of historically marginalized marginalized in minority voters these are the same people who have proven to us time and again time and time again through their voting records that they don’t care if these people cannot be trusted and protect protect our basic

Rights how can we trust them to draw fair and impartial maps that promote a healthy and vibrant democracy they can’t we can’t trust them the Republicans in this committee and the others in the House and Senate don’t care about democracy they don’t care about Fair maps all we care about are three simple

Things re-election power and dollar signs this redistricting stunt is a clear power grab by Republicans in the general assembly so I urge you now watch your step be very careful in what you choose to do because young people like me are watching and young people like me are fed up

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Can find that wherever you get your podcast normally and then there’s also the podcast of the entire 3our show with no advertisements and that’s available by subscription over at tomh harman.com so check them all out at tomh harman.com and Hartman report.com We Than Our book today in the Tom Harman book club is Richard Wolf’s understanding socialism this is from the introduction socialism is a kind of yearning for a better life than what capitalism permits for most people socialists yearnings are as old as capitalism them itself because they are its products where and when

Capitalism’s problems and failings have ACC accumulated criticism and critics socialist voices have Arisen and so it is now any serious discussion of socialism must begin by acknowledging socialism’s Rich diversity whatever particular aspect of socialism we choose to analyze they need to be located within socialism’s complexity that avoids presenting one’s own

Interpretation as if it were the entirety of socialism in this book I FOC focus on the economic aspects of socialism how it differs from capitalism and Broad out lines I’m more interested in socialist critiques of capitalism and their implications about socialist Alternatives than in the particulars of the few early experiments in erecting

Socialist systems USSR People’s Republic of China and so on that history so far offers finally my own education and work constrain me to concentrate on Western Europe and North America some important aspects of socialism are thus not covered or discussed Here yearnings For Better Lives such as socialism proposes

Are not new enslaved societies the slaves hoped and dreamed of lives less hard and less out of their own control their yearning aimed to obtain Freedom they sought social change that would preclude any one person being the property of another in feudal societies the Surfs free in the sense that no one

Owned them yearned for better lives too their subordination to Lords included heavy labor and other burdens that they wanted lifted they hoped and dreamed of a society in which they would not be bound to the land the Lord of that land and the feudal dos of Labor and

Subservience the Surfs mobilized in the 1789 French Revolution to demand Liberty equality and Brotherhood in effect the Surfs had expanded on what the slaves had called freedom in the American Revolution against British King George the third the revolutionaries were neither slaves nor surfs they were mostly self-employed Farmers Crafts

People and Merchants subject to a foreign feudal Kingdom they wanted Liberty as individuals to pursue their dreams without hindrance from feudalism or monarchism whether foreign or domestic they added democracy to the goals Advanced by the slaves and surfs before them the different systems of slavery feudalism and small-scale self-employment produced masses of

People Yearning For Better Lives eventually each of those systems provoked revolutions many people then sought to break away from and go beyond those systems the French and American Revolutions marked key moments in the social transformations of major pre- capitalist systems into capitalist ones by capitalist system we mean that

Particular organization of production in which the basic human relation is employer employe instead of Master Slave Lord surf or individual self-employment the revolutionaries who wanted and built capitalism hoped and believed the transition to employer employee relations of product of production would bring with them the Liberty equality Brotherhood and

Democracy they had yearned for the revolution’s leaders promised to themselves and to the the people they LED that those goals would be achieved but the transition to capitalist employer employee relations that increasingly replaced the previous slave feudal and self-employment relations of production had unintended consequences capitalism soon proved to be different

From what its revolutionaries had hoped while it enabled some people to be more free and more independent than slaves surf for self-employed subjects of monarchies had been it also seriously limited Freedom Independence and democracy for many capitalism betrayed many of the promises made by its Advocates It produced and reproduced

Great inequalities of income and wealth poverty proved to be as endemic as capitalism seemed a adequate equally Adept at producing and reproducing both wealth and poverty the capitalist Rich use their wealth to shape and control politics and culture Democratic forms hid very undemocratic content the cyclical instability attending capitalism constantly threatened and

Hurt large numbers of people and so on growing numbers of employees within capitalism began to yearn for Better Lives they defined those yearnings first in the familiar terms of the ear earlier French and American Revolutions equality fraternity Liberty and democracy they criticized a capitalism that failed to deliver those to most people and

Demanded social changes to achieve them many people still continue to want a better softer friendlier capitalism where government regulates and intervenes to achieve more of what the French and American revolutionaries had yearned for and promised they are also often self-defined as socialists however capitalism’s development provoked another different perspective that also called itself

Socialism in that view capitalism had not broken From Slavery feudalism and monarchy nearly as much as its Advocates had imagined slaves had M slavery had Master slaves feudalism had Lord surfs and monarchy had King subjects as their key sources of their inequalities lack of freedom oppressions and conflicts the

Employer employee relation of production and capitalism generated parallel problems capitalism installed monarchies inside individual workplaces even as monarchies outside workplaces were rejected Kings mostly disappeared but inside workplaces the owners of their designated Boards of directors assumed king-like Powers the book understanding socialism by Richard wolf This is the Tom Hartman program hey hey let’s talk about the GOP 60-year authoritarian plot perhaps none dare call it treason but I do I’ll tell you about that in just a moment also we all knew January 6 was organized from the top down now we have proof

Proof anybody going to go to jail around this also seriously you can’t make this up crazy alert trucker Carlson is open-minded about the conspiracy theory that Nazi scientists faked the moon landing for the US in the second hour of our program the GoFundMe experts think Clarence Thomas’s sponsorship by billionaires starting in

The U in the 1990s was actually bribery is it I’ll give you the details and you can make up your own mind also the Ohio Republican plot to thwart those who backed immoral and evil abortion rights and geeky science the Dutch are riding their bikes on two new solar

Cycles paths in the third hour of our program Dr Eric faling is going to drop by on the triple debic Co flu and RSV plus there’s a new Co variant out there that uh is worrisome so if you’re traveling for the holidays don’t forget your mask right anyhow I’ll we’ll get to

All that in the third hour of the program but I wanted to start out today and of course your calls throughout the throughout the day uh but I want to start out today with the the piece that I I wrote yesterday afternoon edited this morning and published this morning

Over at Hartman report.com is titled the gop’s 60-year authoritarian plot perhaps none dare call it treason but I do I mean you know now that Donald Trump is openly calling for fascism here in the United States saying he wants to build concentration camps for millions of people which includes Democrats and the

Media I think it’s a good time to kind of look back at the Republican party and ask the question how do we get here how do we end up with a with a Putin owned russal loving fascist corrupt businessman billionaire running for president of the United States with a chance of

Winning I was 13 years old in 1964 when my dad gave me a copy of John storer’s book none dare call it treason this was a book that hypothesized that the state department was filled with Communists and the Goldwater campaign actually had bought over a million copies and mailed them to people they

Mailed one to my dad and he gave it to me after he read it and that book in 1964 was kind of the high Watermark of the anti-communist movement in the United States and it it was actually set into place by an earlier book 1951 by Russell Kirk called the conservative

Mind from Burke to Elliott and uh by Russell Kirk in Russell Kirk’s book the conservative mind uh he lays out this hypothesis that because of the new deal because of FDR’s policies uh FDR you’ll recall in 1935 legalized trade unions so people could organize as unions without being shot by police

Without being beaten by police without being killed by their employers uh without losing their jobs um you know legalized trade unions and it put into place the minimum wage uh unemployment insurance all these kinds of programs and and basically what Kirk what Russell Kirk was arguing was that the normal structure of

Society is that most of most of the wealth of and power political power Society is concentrated in a very small number of hands traditionally in Europe it was the King right in every country and or the queen and then their family basically and their their little In

Crowd that can you know that held most of the wealth of the country and all of the political power and Kirk was arguing that this is what’s normal for humans and that what’s abnormal for humans is democracy is is you know a strong middle class that that when he

Wrote his book in 1951 the middle class had not yet hit 50% of America but we had the fastest growing and largest middle class in the history of the world at that time as a result of Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal and Russell Kirk predicted that that fast growing huge middle class once

It hit a certain threshold probably 50% which is you know which we hit in the 1960s this was 1951 Russell Kirk predicted that when we hit that all hell would break loose because middle class people were not raised with no bless obl they were not raised with the

Obligations of wealth they were not raised to be the the the the thoughtful rulers of a country uh they’re raised to to go me mine I want more according to Russell Kirk he famously and he quoted uh uh as I said Edmund Burke the British conservative who said in 1790 is the

Opening chapter of mind is titled uh Edmund Burke it’s the entire chapter is about Edmund Burke and this is a quote from Edmund Burke quote the occupation of a hairdresser or a working Tallow Chandler a candlemaker cannot be a matter of honor to any person to say

Nothing of a number of more surval Employments such descriptions of men ought not to suffer oppression from the state but the state suffers oppression if they either individually or collectively are permitted to rule in other words if they can run for public office or if they can vote he goes on to

Say in this you think you are combating prejudice but you are at war with nature you know in trying to allow for a middle class so you know Kirk and his followers in 1951 were essentially saying that today’s hairdressers and working Tallow Chandlers candl makers uh the college students women workingclass people

People of color ever got even close to social and political power at the same level as wealthy white men there would essentially be a Communist Revolution in the United States handing us over to Stalin and his PO Bureau now Kirk believed this philosophically but the people who were

Promoting this were mostly very very wealthy businessmen who just did were just really pissed off about the union movement I mean you know at that time well it was 1956 so my dad finally got a union job or maybe 1950 it must been 1957 because I was six years old when he

When he bought his first house and the house he died in you know many years later and uh you know working in a tool and die shop making enough money one guy making enough money to buy a house a three-bedroom house in the suburbs to buy a new car every two years

To take a vacation every year and to to have a a good retirement and to put his kids to school if he you know if he chosen to um this was and in fact he did help out my younger brothers so you know keep in mind this was a time when racial

Segregation was legal and brutally enforced the voting age was 21 campuses were entirely all male pretty much women couldn’t even open a checking account uh or get a credit card without a husband or brother or father signature so throughout the 50s Kirk and his warnings were not really taken

Seriously other outside of by Barry Goldwater and William F Buckley Jr but in the 1960s what happened was 1961 the birth control pill was legalized ‘ 66 we got the war in Vietnam by ‘ 67 all hell was breaking loose the feminist movement which you could track back to the birth control

Pill being legalized was full-blown women were burnt literally burning their bras in the streets the anti-war movement was full-blown young men were burning their draft cards in the streets the Civil Rights Movement was full-blown in some cities black people protesting police violence against unarmed black people were literally burning the cities in the

Streets gay people were having a moment the Gay Liberation movement was a thing all across the United States and at that point Barry gwat and the Republicans along you there were strikes all over the country you know the particularly in the 70s this you know following the Arab

Oaro and Barry gwat and his buddies looked around and said holy crap Russell Kirk was right back in 1951 here we are in the 60s and we’re looking back in to the 1950s and Russell Kirk was right a middle class is going to destroy this country it’s going to turn us into a

Communist nation and hand us over to Stalin I guess by that point it was was Cruise Shi and so what did they do about it they brought in Ronald Reagan in 1981 in the election of 1980 he was sworn into office on January 20th 1981

And as soon as he took office he began the Reagan Revolution what we refer to as the Reagan Revolution which was literally a war on the middle class I mean he he massively cut taxes on rich people he raised taxes on work people 11 times he cut taxes on rich

People from 74% down to 25% he put a tax on social security income so you got to pay for that those rich people’s taxes by taxing Working Class People so if you got Social Security all of a sudden you’re paying income tax on it he put an

Income tax on unemployment income he put in a mechanism to track and tip uh ta and tax tips you know all these middle class things that people you know money they used to get taxfree now are being taxed he ended the tax deductibility of credit cards uh credit card interest he

Ended the tax deductibility of car loan payments he ended the tax deductibility of student debt interest payments again all used by workingclass people he declared war on labor unions he crushed PATCO in less than a week his war on labor was so effective that by the end of his and George Bush’s

Presidency the George Bush the senior you know at the end of 12 years he had taken us from a third of us 30 3% of us being in unions down to 10% and it hit a bottom at 6% a couple years back it’s slowly clawing back he he negotiated NAFTA which Bill Clinton

Signed I mean you know it just it just destroyed the middle class had Reagan not in destroyed America’s unions the median American Income today would be well over $100,000 a year minimum wage households would have a family at the minimum wage working at the Min minimum

Wage if it had kept up with with uh just you know with inflation you’d have a family income of $86,000 a year two minimum wage workers and a single wage earner would be able to buy a house a car and send the kids to college and have a decent retirement like my dad

Did instead today the CEOs keep all that money for themselves and their investors and this destruction of the middle class then caused a whole bunch of middle class mostly white people to say holy cow what happened we used to be in the middle class and now we’ve got

You know we’ both got to work to to to pay the bills and we can’t even do that can’t even get pay the bills and Along Comes Donald Trump who in the Republican primary points out how corrupt the Republican party is which was true he just destroyed them and then when for the

General election against Hillary Clinton he became a Democrat he ran to the left of Hillary Clinton he said he was going to give everybody health care he was going to give everybody free college he said he was going to he was going to raise taxes on rich people so much that

His rich friends wouldn’t talk to him he said he was going to bring our jobs back from overseas these were all lies he had no intention of doing any of them but people bought it and in 2016 even though he lost by 3 million votes and never should have been president the

Electoral College awarded him the the White House in part because of Vladimir Putin’s he and so now this is how we got to this is how we got to Trump and this is how we get to Fascism it’s because these CEOs back in the ‘ 50s wanted to

End the union movement this is the time Harman program because it was cutting into their profits we’ll be right Back and welcome back Mark in Seattle he Mark what’s on your mind today hey Tom it’s Mark Taylor Canfield I want to wish you and your family a happy holiday season and than for continuing to speak power you know truth to power you know voices like yours are

Really really important today we may be headed towards a 1930s style fascist Takeover in this country and it’s really frightening but I wanted to call and let you know um as executive director for democracy watch news we’ve been following what’s happening to journalists in Gaza to like over 40 of

Them now have been killed well according to Jody Ginsburg president of the committee to protect Journal the Israeli Gaza war is the most dangerous conflict since the international advocacy group for reporters started keeping records over 30 years ago yeah so the committee has joined with over 200 other groups

Calling for a ceasefire and I have an article over at David Co about that but as of today Tom 64 journalists and media workers are confirmed dead 647 Palestinian 57 Palestinian four Israeli and three Lebanese reporters 13 journalists are reported injured three journalists are missing and 19 journalists have been arrested and this

Also doesn’t include multiple assaults threats cyber attacks censorship and killings of journalists and their family members yeah and according to the Israeli Defense Forces they told Raiders and aan France Press News agencies that they could not guarantee the safety of journalists operating in the Gaza Strip after they sought assurances the cpj and

Other groups sought Assurance assurance that the journalists wouldn’t be targeted yeah uh they were told they couldn’t guarantee that well if a hostage can’t be safe what what makes you think a journalist is going to be safe I mean these three hostages you know wrote help an SOS you know with

Food on a blanket they they were carrying a white a white flag they were stripped themselves naked to the waist to show that they weren’t carrying weapons they were hostages and they were still killed by Sharpshooters from the IDF Israeli according to international law journalists our civilians who must be

Respected and protected by all Waring parties and that deliberately targeting journalists or media infrastructure constitutes a war crime yeah I wanted to let you know to the Seattle City council passed a resolution which I testified in favor of um calling for an immediate uh ceasefire and a permanent ceasefire that

Was uh introduced by our socialist city council member shamas Swant who actually is retiring from the council this year to work with the group workers strike back and they’re going to be helping Amazon Starbucks and other workers organized labor unions cool yeah other C councils across the US have since passed

Ceasefire resolutions including Atlanta Oakland Providence Rhode Island and then in Los Angeles 18 elected officials uh in that region presented an open letter to President Biden and secretary blinkin calling for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza the safe return of all those who’ve been taken captive and an end to the

Collective punishment of Palestinians yeah so it these resolutions are pretty balanced they’re calling you know on both sides to to do the right thing and I I think it’s uh one of those stories that has legs as we say in journalism it’s going to continue to spread us

Across the country as more more communities pass these resolutions and call for you know human rights that’s what this is all about really when it comes down to it but human rights for journalists as well I mean journalists it’s a very very dangerous job these

Days to be a journalist in a lot of countries around the world and unfortunately in our country we’re now R ranked 45th in the world in terms press Freedom by bord Without Borders so we got to do a lot of work here yeah own

Amen I you know and I I you know I know journalists in the United States in many cases get death threats if they just report on what’s going on with Trump and and his buddies mark thank you for the for the information Mark Taylor Canfield we’ll be right back it’s 22 minutes past

The Hour Change starts with you you can be calling your Democratic or republican representatives to let them know what you think by calling 202-224-3121 it’s the capital switchboard it’ll get you right through to him so Vivic ramaswami during the first Republican debate was laying out his vision for America in and by the way

He was the number two guy in the debate according to the Washington Post in which he was arguing that we should basically do away with all of our federal agencies really virtually all of them just just shut them down and make them go away he’s not the first person

To argue this David KO running on the libertarian ticket in 1980 for vice president was arguing the same thing he had a long list of federal agencies he wanted to shut down this is not an uncommon thing among billionaires and ramaswami is a billionaire uh you know

They basically want to take America back to the 1920s before we had what they call the welfare State and if they do so they will turn America into a failed State they want to make America into into something like Haiti or Libya and that would be a disaster there’s a whole

Article about it that you can read all the details it’s titled is Vivic ramaswami a different kind of Republican cat at Hartman report.com check it out wel back 24 minutes past the hour so somebody says uh why sir please tell me why is it that uh we had two Wars

Against countries that did nothing to US Iraq and Afghanistan and we lost 7,000 soldiers as I recall we spent five or six or seven trillion dollars why did we have those Wars why is it that the assault weapons ban was not renewed in 2005 why is it

That we have Medicare Advantage this new scam that’s that’s running around why is it that for an entire eight years from 2000 to 2008 nothing was done about climate change well the answer is Sandra de o Conor Sandra de o Conor told several people right after the 2000 election she

Was sitting with several people actually watching TV when Dan Rather came on TV and said Al Gore won the election remember it was originally called for Al Gore and then you know down in Florida it was like wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute and then the Florida

Supreme Court ordered a recount said hey there’s a lot of irregularities here not to mention you know Jeb Bush knocking 90,000 African-Americans off the voting roles in the months just before the election and at that point sandre de o Conor watching this on TV that Al Gore

Had just won stood up and said this is terrible because her husband had just been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s this was 2000 her husband had just been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s and she wanted to retire from the Supreme Court so she could care for him but she did not want to be replaced by

Al Gore she did not want Al Gore to nominate her her replacement she wanted a republican to nominate her replacement and so she became the deciding vote the Swing Vote in the bush Vore decision that handed the White House from Al Gore to George W bush and you know everybody is lionizing

Sandra de o Conor I think uh she did considerable harm to this country and uh that the that the record should show that more clearly I mean what I just shared with you is not a secret this is not some you know something that you’ve got to have the

Liberal decoda ring to find it’s this was in the New York Times at the time I mean this was this is you know you can find news stories from well not from 2000 I mean the it came out a year or so later that this had happened but um you

Know like I said it’s not a secret she never denied it so here we are all righty you knew January 6 was organized on the top down and seriously you can’t make this up a crazy alert Tucker Carlson and Nazi scientists on the moon we’ll be right back you’re

Listening to the Tom Hartman program Call 20288 9925 plus your calls stay with us Our book today in the Tom Hartman book club is cand the secret history of coke Industries and corporate power in America by Christopher Leonard this is from the preface on May 18 1981 four Wall Street Bankers traveled to witch talk Kansas they went there to make an offer to

Charles KO the CEO of an obscure midsize Energy company the bankers from Morgan Stanley wanted to convince Koch to take his family’s company public offering shares for sale on the New York Stock Exchange their deal was squarely in line with the conventional wisdom of corporate America at the time going

Public was seen as a natural progression for companies like Coke Industries offering them access to big pools of money and promising enormous paydays for the existing team of Executives all it required from the CEO was to surrender control Morgan Stanley in return would collect a small fortune in fees Charles

KO was 45 years old he had run KO industry since he was 32 and his father died suddenly he was trim tall and had an athletes build he spoke quietly in meetings and seemed almost passive the bankers laid out their plan to take coch public they revealed what to most

Executives at least might have been the most significant detail if Charles KO agreed to the deal he could earn $20 million overnight the bankers seemed incredulous when they prepared a confidential memo about Ko’s reaction he does not want this cash the memo reported Charles KO calmly explained to

Them why their offer made no sense his company was breathtakingly profitable it operated in vitally De in vital deeply complex corners of the American Energy industry during the 1980s Coke Industries was the largest purchaser and transporter of us crude oil it owned an oil refinery it employed teams of

Commodity traders who bought and sold a wildly diverse menu of raw materials and financial products from gasoline to paper Futures contracts this this might have encouraged most CEOs to take their company public Coke Industries however did not want Outsiders to know how much money its Traders were earning taking

The company public would expose too many of its Secrets the memo said certain of K’s commodity Traders are particularly worried that their High salaries once disclosed to the public would be used against them by their trading partners secrecy was a strategic necessity for Koke Industries Charles KO did not want

To surrender it he also didn’t want to surrender control he had a specific Clear Vision of how to run his company and he didn’t need Wall Street investors to interfere if the bankers expected Charles KO to go along with the conventional wisdom of their time then they like so many Outsiders did not

Understand him beneath his lowkey evener Charles KO was at his core a fighter he had unmovable ideas about how things should be and he did not back down when challenged when he was challenged by his own Brothers for control of coke Industries he fought them in a bitter

Legal battle that lasted decades when he was challenged by members of a powerful labor union during his first years as CEO he fought them even as they committed an act of industrial sabotage that nearly destroyed C’s oil refinery when the FBI and the US Department of Justice launched a criminal

Investigation into Koch industry’s oil Gathering business Charles KO fought them with every legal and political tool at his disposal when a liberal Congress and President Barack Obama sought to impose regulations on the fossil fuel industry to control greenhouse gas emissions Charles Coke fought them in ways that changed us politics in each of

These fights Charles KO prevailed when Charles KO dismissed the bankers in 1981 it was just a small Skirmish in the larger War to control Coke Industries after prevailing in that fight he created a company that was true to his vision he avoided the snares that entangled many publicly traded companies

That report their financial results to investors every three months Coke Industries didn’t have to think quarter to quarter the company thinks year to year an internal Think Tank and deal Mak making committee called the Development Group will sometimes think through a business deal on a timeline measured in

Decades this long-term view made coch more Nimble where other companies stumbled in 200 3 for example Coke Industries bought a group of money losing fertilizer plants when no publicly traded company was willing to take the risk today those plants are as profitable as a broken ATM machine that

Spews out cash Around the Clock unlike publicly traded companies Coke industries does not pay out rich in dividends to investors Charles Co insists on reinvesting at least 90% of the company’s profits fueling its constant expansion this strategy laid the foundation for decades of continuous growth Coke Industries expanded continuously by purchasing other

Companies and branching out into new Industries it specialized in the kind of businesses that are indispensable to Modern civilization but which most consumers never directly encounter the company is embedded in the hidden infrastructure of everyday life millions of people use Coke’s products without ever seeing Coke’s name attached Coke

Refines and distributes fossil fuels from gasoline to jet fuel on which the global economy is dependent Coke is the world’s third largest producer of nitrogen fertilizer which is the Cornerstone of our modern food system Coke makes the synthetic materials used in baby diapers waistbands and carpets it makes the

Chemicals used for plastic bottles and pipes it owns it owns Georgia Pacific which makes the wall panels beams and plywood required to build homes and Office Buildings it makes napkins paper towels stationary newspaper and personal hygiene products Coke Industries owns a network of Commodities trading offices in Houston Moscow Geneva and elsewhere

Which are the circulatory system of modern Finance the book kand by Christopher leard chapter one killing a nation the book Fred kaplan’s the Bomb did you know that every weekday we send out an email before the show giving you all the topics coming up so you could be fully informed and ready to interact with our program or that after the show we send out Sue stack a list of every topic I’ve discussed along with

Clickable hot links to every source of information I’ve shared with you on the air it’s all completely free and available over at to.tv t.tv check it out So we all knew it January 6 was organized all the way to the top they have just discovered text messages between Kylie Cammer who was one of the ra organizers of the rally on the ellips on January 6th a representative of this group uh that I believe Jenny Thomas was

Associated with women for America First and pillowman Mike Lindell the text messages lay out that they knew that Donald Trump was going to call for a March to the capital but they notified the Park Service when they applied for the permit that there would be no March to the capital but they knew

That Trump was going to do it and they coordinated this with him now is there going to be any you know legal consequence to this probably not there should be in my opinion but you know probably not but now we know that Trump organized January 6 with help

Of other people and that they planned to March to the capital now whether the women for America first people knew that they were going to then enter the capital and and smear feces on the walls and pee on 100y Old rugs and and and paintings and and uh try to murder the

Vice president and the speaker of the house that’s an open question Trump certainly knew that and the some of the people around Trump I I’m guessing certainly knew that our crazy alert for the day and then I’ll pick up your calls here Tucker Carlson is open-minded to

The theory that Nazi scientists fake the moon landing yeah well operation paper clip was a real thing back in the 1950s when the CIA was recruiting German Nazi you know weran Brown who was the most famous German Nazi rocket scientists for our space program and uh so anyhow he Tucker was

On this talk show with this right kind of conspiracy guy and uh he says uh you know I don’t know what the original moon landing tapes have been erased at Nasa because they needed you know the little tape space so they just kind of taped over them which by the way is true

Although there are copies of those original tapes that are in archives so it’s not like it’s lost um but uh you know he said uh so I grew up in a country where people sort of believed things including their government which clearly had the capacity to do bad

Things yeah don’t trust your govern government says Tucker I say don’t trust Fox News but that’s a whole another thing anyhow let’s pick up your calls and see what’s on your mind today Jerry in Kansas City Missouri hey Jerry what’s up hello Tom glad to talk to you this is

A what’s up long time listener first time caller oh thank you Jerry I’ve got a question um I watch you on on YouTube quite a lot and YouTube is just loaded with all these commercials these days for free money they’re saying I can get 6,000 $400 by calling this number and

Answering two questions oh really and the two and the two questions are are you under 65 and are you on Medicaid or Medicare oh if not just click this button or something and and it’ll get you your free money yeah so it’s a Medicare Advantage scam that’s that’s what I was wondering

It sounded like a yeah Medicare Advantage scam to me yeah the thing is Medicare Advantage signup is over but I’m still seeing the commercials you can still sign sign up for it if you just turned 65 I see and I I believe that it’s possible that you can even sign up for

It outside of the enrollment uh period which is you know October through December but I but I’m not sure exactly what there are some circumstances that allow you to to enroll you know outside of that so and I’m sorry that you know those ads are on our YouTube feed I I

Have no control over them um right you know it’s they’re they’re coming out of Google you know which owns YouTube but you know what can you say so Jerry thanks for the call in the heads up it’s a good talking to you appreciate it okay look forward to Future conversations

Josh and Upstate New York hey Josh what’s on your mind today hey I just want to talk about I seen you talking about unions and um I do I I used to work for a union for a very good company and the bad thing about it was you pay all these union

Dues and the health insurance wasn’t there we were paying out of pocket and every every week paying out of pocket for health insurance and then you go to the doctor and you’re still paying out of pocket because you have to meet like a 7,000 deductible right so you’re

Complaining that your union had not negotiated free health insurance for you uh I came in before they negotiated it and and they nobody it seems funny that nobody wanted to strike it yeah I also wanted Trum I want to talk about uh this was 2022 huh last

Year yeah interesting yeah well I you know all I can say Josh is that you should have gotten into the into the leadership of the Union unions are democracies they are democracy in the workplace they are the only place that there is any democracy in a workplace um

You know some small businesses you know more or less but but you know basically that’s it and you know if you want to if you want to have a say and you got to join the union Josh thanks for the call Jeff in Fort Dodge Iowa hey Jeff what’s

Up hi Tom happy holidays to you and yours I want yesterday you talked about the Border closing idea that the Republicans want and that Biden should take advantage and Nicholas caller uh called in was outraged by it uh I have a tendency to agree with you a little bit

On this uh I believe that the uh this is the uh defund the police that the Republican used in 2016 and 2020 and Democrats kind of pohod it like oh that’s nothing well we saw in Iowa that it just literally the defund the police wiped out uh the Democratic party here

Virtually and made Iowa a red State wow uh I believe that’s amazing Jeff given that there there really were no uh actual Democratic you know elected Democrats who were calling for defunding the police there was one member of Congress who had used that phrase once and then walked it back almost

Immediately but the Republicans turned it into a thing that wasn’t even a thing I mean that’s just incredible that’s right it was the message and and now it’s going to be the message the Border oh I know I know that’s why I wrote the piece yesterday and what what I what I believe

Is that if we can get these if they enact that and and still keep the the uh border ports of Entry open but I maybe if it turns away some of these immigrants and Latinos and nicaraguans and hun and get them away from that border because I’m going to guarantee

You what happens if Donald Trump takes over and the Republicans take over is going to be a complete nightmare for any immigrant for any DACA uh person oh he will end he’s already said that they will end DACA and even how many people that are legitimate uh American citizens with

Latino last names could get swept up into what I believe that Donald Trump and these Republicans will do well he has said he wants to end Birthright citizenship so the the and and he wants to reverse the citizenship of children who were born here to people who were here illegally

And you know in other words first generation Americans uh he wants to reverse that so yeah I mean speaking of nightmares it’s you know if Donald Trump is elected it it’s going to become insane Jeff excellent points all thank you very much for that Sharon in San Marcos California hey Sharon what’s up

Hi well just the opposite here Tom I’m going to uh talk you down out of that plan okay now the keynote of your plan was that uh word will get out that the border is closed it’ll stop the immigrants no it’s not it will not stop them first of all

The Republicans lie about everything they will continue to drop their Flyers they will probably pay mules and they’ll pay people to come up to the Border you’ll still get images of people at the border so it doesn’t matter what Biden’s policy is they’re going to lie about it

Anyway uh it will make it look like uh Biden’s policy completely failed it’ll backfire uh and then the second thing is if if you know some of us are angry with you about just talking about the plan can you imagine what Biden’s base is going to feel about him implementing it

Uh he will lose his base it will hand the election over to the GOP it’ll be a total backfire so here’s you mentioned yesterday to I think it was Nicholas uh okay Nicholas what do you recommend here’s what I suggest uh it is a problem it is always

Going going to be a problem the Dems need to say that they need to say this is a complicated difficult problem it affects labor it affects jobs it affects businesses they need to say that they need to claim it they need to own it it’s crushing put out yes they need to

Put out a policy now Nancy Pelosi passed several bills within the house while she was uh the speaker and so there are there are bills that have been already created they need to put together a policy from these bills it can be simple just basic it doesn’t have to be

Detailed and they need to publish that policy take out double uh page spreads uh in the New York Times The Washington Post whatever making an event say here is our policy we are going to do something about it we are owning it we know it’s a problem we accept that we’re

Going to do something now now Republicans we challenge you to come up with something better they need to own it they need to broadcast it take it over it will never be off the table this is this immigration problem will I got it so Sharon let me respond if I may

Because we’re going to hit a break here in a second um number one you’re doing what Democrats always do which is oh there’s a complex problem let’s offer a complex solution and then nobody pays any attention to it simple solution no well there are no Simple Solutions um

The Republicans are going to rebut with their simple solution which is closed the border and you know it’s you’ve got you would have Eric Adams on your side I mean you know he’s he’s he’s saying this is destroying New York City we you know you’re you’re breaking our budget

Chicago is in in crisis Los Angeles is in crisis because you know and not to mention you know cities in the South um but you know in particular where these where these folks are being sent there is a crisis and uh and I don’t believe that that the Republic an lies that you

Know yes they’re going to continue to say there’s an open border and all that but that’s not I don’t think that’s going to be the narrative I think the narrative is going to respond out of outrage on the left from people saying look at they they you know Biden went

Along and closed the border and I think you’re right it will hurt some on the left it will it will hurt him some with his left I don’t think it’ll hurt anywhere near as much as as dealing with as as taking the Border off the table

Will help demat off the table I think it will it won’t take it off the T that’s where we’re that’s where we’re differing sh Sharon because it will make it it’ll make it worse well you know good luck with that I you know this strategy of countering Republican Simple Solutions

With complex things and saying we’ll hold a press conference and everybody will pay attention to the best of my knowledge has never worked before but you know maybe maybe Sharon thank you for the call I got to go it’s 46 minutes past the hour you’re listening to Tom Hartman visit

Tom harman.com for audio and video archives it’s talk media for the sane among us we’ll be right back with you Call and welcome back Steve in Phoenix Arizona hey Steve what’s up good morning and greetings Tom um I want to speak about Sandra Deo here in a minute but You’ mentioned Mike Lindell and uh the pillow guy and all that stuff and U I’m curious why he hasn’t been

Charged maybe he has but I don’t recall my knowled he has not he certainly should be charged and uh you know Trump was planning this all along because there was no TR transition team to help of a Biden transition team going into the the White House smoothly so this

This was this was from way back when you know um the sander de o Conor issue um I’m glad you brought that up because I was thinking I was the only one in the room who remembered this um you know being being the vote to stop the Supreme

Court um and we she’s like you said she’s being lionized and I see I see nothing good of this um this is the start of of the 20 years of just horrible policies and and oh my god um on top of that bush bush had lost the

Election by a half million votes it this was the this was the first modern election where the Electoral College prevailed and and it established it as something that was acceptable for Americans I guarantee you if a republican had won by a half a million votes if George W bush had won by half

Million votes and Al Gore had been made president by the Electoral College we wouldn’t have the Electoral College anymore CU Republicans would have made such a stink about it I agree 100% And you know we um the U war was going on after the World Trade Center you know the Afghanistan thing it

Started and we oh we better R rally around the president well that’s hogwash if he Lo if he didn’t win that um election legitimately and stuff like that if he had lost it’s it’s exactly like you said and we should we should have been raising holy HL yeah know and

And and you know for one this this we still have this uh electoral college and for the life of me I can’t I don’t understand why I can’t get rid of it well I do know why because he needed 60 vote threshold but yes thanks for

Bringing it up I don’t want to keep going on here but we’ve got a fight like hell we got to fund Ukraine and that’s about it happy holidays to you and everybody Tom thank you Steve it would actually take 67 votes I think I I think

You’ve got to have a uh a two-third super majority in the Senate to amend the Constitution tion and that that would be the way for the federal government to do it you you have to have a uh yeah two two-thirds of the House and Senate and 3/4 of the states um so

You know getting rid of the Electoral College is not going to be an easy job but you know Steve’s point is absolutely right uh Jim in Applegate Michigan hey Jim what’s on your mind today yeah I’m talking about the Border down there you know Trump will be pres

Again I hope you accept that and hate how come people always got to say how come there’s no white hate how come it’s always nobody talks about white hate what do you mean why is that you mean hate against white people or white people hating on yeah ha

Against white people advertising on the on the advertising every day it’s like asking why why don’t people talk about billionaire hate it’s such a crisis people hating billionaires white people have all the Power white people have all the money is that right I don’t have no

Money well then you’re the victim of the white people who have been selling this stuff Jim you need to talk to the billionaire who owns Fox news about why you don’t have any money you you’re the perfect victim of Ronald Reagan and Republican policies Ronald Reagan destroyed the union

Movement in the United States gutted the American middle class we went from two-thirds the middle class being two-thirds of Americans down to 43% right now because of Reaganomics because of 40 Years of Reaganomics and you’re buying this stuff it’s amazing Help support progressive radio if you’re listening to us on a commercial station call their advertisers and let them know you’re listening if you’re listening to us on Pacifica or one of our many nonprofit stations please support them when they do their fundraising drives thanks for supporting Progressive Talk Radio and tag you’re it Click the right button here Paul in woodo Washington hey Paul what’s what’s on your mind today hey uh Tom yeah the the first step to getting rid of the Electoral College is passing the national popular vote act which says that’s what we have to do because that’s when here’s the deal is

That’s the that’s beginning the conversation that most people do not you do you realize this how many people out there in the audience raise your hands if you know you understand that you do not have a constitutional right to vote for president oh I see what you’re

Saying yeah and and that was I mean you know rist wrote that in Bush Vore there is no right to vote for president of the United States well that’s yeah that’s right there isn’t a right uh and all you have to do is look at Article 2 Section

One paragraph two each state shall appoint as the legislature thereof may direct a number of electors it doesn’t have say Electoral College the number of electors equal to the whole number of senators and it doesn’t even say that we vote for those electors which we all do

But it doesn’t even say that and that was the basis of Trump’s attempt to overthrow the the election that’s right which which by the way the the election on December 14 the electors of the the vote of the electors on December 14th 2000 was never in question he was that’s

Why he’s a criminal it’s he all the all of the uh allegations of popular vote fraud is irrelevant because that’s right the State Certified their votes right and therefore those are only state issues those are not federal issues so what I’m getting at is I’ll give you you

Can take money to the bank Tom the the next next year uh and I I do believe President Biden will win if he doesn’t win by just a whopping slugging margin we’re gonna have a Another January 6 a combination probably of January 6th and 2000 in 2000 the Supreme Court in

Intervened to make sure that Florida could certify their vote on time correct by at that in in 2000 it was they needed to certify by December 17th because the electors were to vote on the 18th otherwise the way it would have St stood if Florida could not certify because of

All of the hanging Chads and blah blah blah it would have stood at Al Gore 267 to Bush was 242 so the only way out of it was for the Supreme Court to step in stop counting the votes while bush is ahead and certify by December 17th the

Supreme Court has involved yep yeah because there weren’t any federal issues any federal issues that no it was it was a clear violation of the 10th Amendment for that matter yes exactly that the and article one that says that the states shall run their own elections what the

Only time the federal there are federal issues is is if constitutional rights are being violated somebody’s rights to vote based on uh race uh sex age or pole tax or some some fundamental constitutional right then the federal courts can step in but they can’t come in and tell it was a totally fraudulent

Decision Bush VOR in 2000 and and had that had that decision not stood we know from the recount that was done a year later that was published a week after 911 and thus it got buried in all the newspapers that actually won Florida yes and but either way if they

The Supreme Court stopped the debacle that was happening in Florida from making it so that uh they wouldn’t be able to certify on time uh they said no we’re gon to stop this while bush is ahead and make sure Florida certifies on time so that so that bush who was stood

At 242 electoral votes could get the 29 necessary to put him at 271 and it was 271 to Y vote yeah it was and and this is what you can expect if it’s close enough to steal that’s what they’re going to do and there are enough cracks in the in

Between the the stones is that if they can get a wedge in there somehow they’re going to pry it open along with uh and all of this Rod stuff um I completely agree with you Paul and we need to get ready for it and and we need to be you

Know warning people that it’s coming and thank thank you for doing that Paul good talking to you uh we’ll we’ll continue the conversation on the other side of the break Clarence Thomas in the GoFundMe Judiciary you’re listening to Tom Hartman in addition to bringing you the Tom Hartman program here on Free Speech TV and video media online we also have a whole set of ways you can interact with us and tools you can use to spread the word about the importance of democracy and the threats to it in our Republic

First first there’s your daily homework Su UT puts together a daily email newsletter that has a link to every story I discuss on the air so you can find my sources and you can share them with your friends it’s free and you can sign up at Tom harbon tocom second I

Publish my daily take everyday over at the Hartman report.com website that’s also free if you want the daily five days a week rant in your inbox no ads either third we have the podcast there’s the free one-hour version of Our Daily Show that’s advertising supported you can find that wherever you get your

Podcast normally and then there’s also the podcast of the entire three hour show with no advertisements and that’s available by subscription over at tomh harman.com so check them all out at tomh harman.com and Hartman report.com We take f Oh Our book today in the Tom Hartman book club is cand the secret history of coke Industries and corporate power in America by Christopher Leonard this is from the preface on May 18th 1981 four Wall Street Bankers traveled to wiah Kansas they went there make an offer to Charles

Kooch the CEO of an obscure midsize Energy company the bankers from Morgan Stanley wanted to convince KO to take his family’s company public offering shares for sale on the New York Stock Exchange their deal was squarely in line with the conventional wisdom of corporate America at the time going

Public was seen as a natural progression for companies like Coke Industries offering them access to big pools of money and promising enormous paydays for the existing team of Executives all it required from the CEO was to surrender control Morgan Stanley in return would collect a small fortune

In fees Charles kooch was 45 years old he had run Coke industry since he was 32 when his father died suddenly he was trim tall and had an athletes build he spoke quietly in meetings and seemed almost passive the bankers laid out their plan to take Coke public they

Revealed what to most Executives at least might have been the most significant detail if Charles KO agreed to the deal he could earn $20 million over for night the bankers seemed incredulous when they prepared a confidential memo about Ko’s reaction he does not want this cash the memo

Reported Charles KO calmly explained to them why their offer made no sense his company was breathtakingly profitable it operated in vitally De in vital deeply complex corners of the American Energy industry during the 1980s Coke Industries was the largest purchaser and transporter of us crude oil it owned an

Oil refinery it employed teams of commodity traders who bought and sold a wildly diverse menu of raw materials and financial products from gasoline to paper Futures contracts this this might have encouraged most CEOs to take their company public coch Industries however did not want Outsiders to know how much

Money its Traders were earning taking the company public would expose too many of its Secrets the memo said certain of K’s commodity Traders are particularly worried that their High salaries once disclosed to the public would be used against them by their trading partner ERS secrecy was a strategic necessity

For Koke Industries Charles KO did not want to surrender it he also didn’t want to surrender control he had a specific Clear Vision of how to run his company and he didn’t need Wall Street investors to interfere if the bankers expected Charles kooch to go along with the

Conventional wisdom of their time then they like so many Outsiders did not understand him beneath his low-key veneer Charles kke was at his core a fighter he had unmovable ideas about how things should be and he did not back down when challenged when he was challenged by his own Brothers for

Control of coke Industries he fought them in a bitter legal battle that lasted decades when he was challenged by members of a powerful labor union during his first years as CEO he fought them even as they committed an act of industrial sabotage that nearly destroyed Coke’s oil refinery when the

FBI and the US Department of Justice launched a criminal investigation into Koch industry’s oil Gathering business Charles KO fought them with every legal and political iCal tool at his disposal when a liberal Congress and President Barack Obama sought to impose regulations on the fossil fuel industry to control greenhouse gas emissions

Charles Koke fought them in ways that changed us politics in each of these fights Charles Koke prevailed when Charles kooch dismissed the bankers in 1981 it was just a small Skirmish in the larger War to control Koke Industries after prevailing in that fight he created a company that was true to his

Vision he avoided the snares that Tangled many publicly traded companies that report their financial results to investors every 3 months coch Industries didn’t have to think quarter to quarter the company thinks year to year an internal Think Tank and deal M making committee called the Development Group will sometimes think through a business

Deal on a timeline measured in decades this long-term view made coch more Nimble where other companies stumbled in 2003 for example Coke Industries bought a group of money losing fertilizer plants when no publicly traded company was willing to take the risk today those plants are as profitable as a broken ATM

Machine that spews out cash Around the Clock unlike publicly traded companies Koke industries does not pay out rich in dividends to investors Charles K insists on reinvesting at least 90% of the company’s profits fueling its constant expansion this strategy laid the foundation for decades of continuous growth Coke Industries expanded

Continuously by purchasing other companies and branching out into new Industries it’s specialized in the kind of businesses that are indispensable to Modern civilization but which most consumers never directly encounter the company is embedded in the hidden infrastructure of everyday life millions of people use Coke’s products without ever seeing Coke’s name attached Coke

Refines and distributes fossil fuels from gasoline to jet fuel on which the global economy is dependent Coke is the world’s third largest producer of nitrogen fertilizer which is the Cornerstone of our modern food system Coke bakes the synthetic materials used in baby diapers waistbands and carpets it makes the chemicals used for plastic

Bottles and pipes it owns it owns Georgia Pacific which makes the wall panels beams and plywood required to build homes and Office Buildings it makes napkins paper towels stationary newspaper and personal hygiene products Coke Industries owns a network of Commodities trading offices in Houston Moscow Geneva and elsewhere which are

The circulatory system of modern Finance the book cand by Christopher Leard This is the Tom Hartman program welcome to the second hour of our program GoFundMe experts say Clarence Thomas is being sponsored by billionaires and that’s bribery we’re getting the whole story now prop publica has laid this out the the latest legal bombshell this this just mindboggling

Story of how back in the day excuse me this was in um a late 1999 early 2000 Clarence Thomas was on some junk at someplace with a bunch of Republicans a resort down in the Virgin Islands I believe it was and he flew home with us Congressman Cliff Sterns republican from

Florida and said um you know if you guys don’t raise my salary I’m going to leave the the Supreme Court and others may go with me we don’t know who he was talking about but you know that was the threat so Cliff Sterns uh rushes to you know writes

Thomas a letter saying as we agreed it is worth a lot to Americans to have the Constitution properly interpreted we must have the proper incentives here too in other words okay we’re going to get you some money Clarence don’t worry don’t leave don’t go off to the

Corporate world we need a right winger like you and keep in mind this was in in late 1999 early 2000 who was president then Bill Clinton Bill Clinton was President all the way up until January of 2020 2001 so through the entire year of 2000 and of course all of 1999 Bill Clinton

Was President and Clarence Thomas was saying if you don’t give me money I’m going to leave the I’ll leave the Supreme Court and that meant that the conservative majority on the court which was 5’4 at the time would become a conservative minority and this is why the billionaires jumped in and started

Pouring money down clarence’s throat oh you want your kid to go to a very expensive prep school we’ll do that oh you want your mother to to have own her house and and have it uh repaired and and fix up the neighborhood we’ll buy a couple other houses down the street and

Fix them up so that your mother’s place looks nice we’ll do that oh you want to go with us on on you know on our yachts in Indonesia and all around the world on our you know hunt multi hundred foot mega yacht uh you want to fly on our

Private plane we can do that no problem Clarence oh you want a quarter million dollar bus will’ll buy that for you it’s incredible in fact you know people are saying it’s bribery I would say it was blackmail or extortion Clarence Thomas was basically saying if you don’t give me

Money I’m going to make a decision that will flip this court to the left I don’t know why nobody is pointing that part of it out you know just the just line it up with the Clinton presidency and suddenly it makes makes perfect sense this is a big

Deal and it’s all about partisan control of the Supreme Court meanwhile speaking of control the The Good Men of Texas and some women do not want women getting abortions so far there are I believe five let me track it down here I’ve got it marked up yeah uh so far Four County

In Texas have passed travel bans saying that if you transport a woman through our County on the way to an abortion then anybody can sue you for up to $110,000 lck Cochran Mitchell and goad should be Gilead right golad counties in Texas and now oh in Odessa a population of 117,000

In Little Little River Academy a town of 2200 have also passed uh similar policies Amarillo now with 200,000 residents the home of Matthew casmer by the way the anti-abortion judge uh Amarillo is now considering it uh back in November state senator Nate Johnson a Dallas Democrat had introduced legislation that would have

Prohibited cities and counties from putting into place these travel pregnancy travel banss but of course it never even got a hearing much less a vote because Republicans control the Texas legislature be interesting to see if they still do after next November but this is what’s going on in Texas meanwhile Across the Nation

Republicans are trying to prevent people from putting abortion legalization ballot measures on the ballot in state after State I mean this is they’ve already lost in Kansas Kentucky Michigan and Ohio probably most spectacularly in Ohio although the Kansas loss was also got a lot of publicity so in those four states

We’ have had ballot and issues go on and in every single case the you know the the pro-abortion side or abortion rights side won by large numbers nobody’s pro-abortion but people are pro-abortion rights so now now you got some push backs students for life is for example is uh going to

Uh they’re they’re trying to quote excuse me persuade people not to give organizers the signatures they need in Arizona Florida Nevada and Missouri they’re out there telling all their people you know be alert look out for Signature gatherers tell people don’t sign those damn petitions um additionally quote anti-abortion groups

In Arkansas Florida Nebraska and South Dakota are using a similar approach the Nebraska Catholic conference for example is urging its members to not only refuse to sign sign but also to hamper canvassers efforts to get signatures from others what do you do tackle them to the ground sit on them invite them

Into your house and have you know tea and cookies with them for a half hour and debate abortion I mean how do you hamper them I don’t know but the Catholic uh Catholic conference in Nebraska thinks they they’ve got it figured out Arkansas’s Republican attorney general quote this is according to

Political quote recently rejected the name and ballot title of a proposed constitutional amendment to restore abortion rights saying it was misleading contradictory and possibly redundant so if we can find a technical reason to keep it off the ballot we’ll do that too likewise Florida voice for The Unborn leader Andrew

Shel quote said his organization has deployed 50 captains across the state to pass out flyers in English and Spanish urging people not to sign these petitions for abortion rights and set up a website where people can report citings of abortion rights cand users and alert local pro-life advocates in

The area to counteract their the pro-aborts they call them so okay there’s a guy collecting signatures down the street go take care of him what are you supposed to do shoot him like I said tackle him to the ground I mean I what are they propos you know they’re inquiring minds want to

Know meanwhile I have a geeky science for you this is just great news the Dutch have uh they’re into bicycling there’s 2,747 mil of bicycle paths in the Netherlands 21,000 miles I mean I thought Portland was a big deal because we’ve got what is it three 400 miles Sean of bicycle paths

Here in Portland goes all the way around the city through the city all just all over the place you know never never intersect a street or very rarely but 21,000 miles and what have they done now they’re putting solar panels on these bike paths the bikes are not so heavy that

They damage the the solar panels I mean they’re especially made solar panels they’ve got a rough surface on them so you get traction and but you know they’re big they’re made with glass just heavily tempered glass that lets through the light and they they are generating millions of

Watts right now they they are generating 148 million square million watts of power per megawatts of power per hour I believe this is what it is wpm squ the the New Paths are 148 the old passs are 119 excuse me to quote produce excuse me 160 megawatts a year of

Renewable energy in its first year helping to supply the Dutch grid 160 million watts of power we could do that here I mean we don’t have quite the bik bike pass we could certainly do that here and finally Last Story here and then I’ll I’ll um pick up your phone

Calls uh and a reminder Eric feling will be with us at the top of the next hour down in Florida they are trying to outlaw the pride flag from schools universities and all state and local government buildings the way that they’re doing this is there’s already a Prohibition of political

Mentions in other words you can’t have a uh you know in a State Building you can’t have a disantis for president sign or in a school you can’t have a you know whatever bush for president whatever maybe um you know Biden for president you can’t do that because you know these

Are supposed to be politics free zones so what they’re saying with this legislation that’s been introduced by Republican uh state representative David barrero this is the second time he’s tried to ban the Gay Pride flag from public areas in Florida and public property what he’s

Saying is that the Gay Pride flag is a political Viewpoint I don’t get that I don’t see I mean they’re a gay Republicans there are gay conservatives there are gay fascists there was a gay black guy who got called the n-word and the fword uh at uh at this uh new Turning

Point USA you know the what’s his name Charlie Kirk’s group you know he showed up he’s he’s genuinely a gay conservative who wanted to participate but he was black and he was gay and they called him these horrible words and drove him out but in any case

They you know so if you’ve got gay conservatives gay Republicans gay fascists gay Democrats how can you say that the Gay Pride flag or the pride flag I I shouldn’t just say gay you know the entire quer spectrum that the pride flag is political what does that have to do with

Politics or at least partis I think you know you might be able to build a case that if something’s on the ballot that this is political but to the best of my knowledge there’s nothing on the ballot about the pride flag in Florida I don’t it’s just another it’s another attempt to

Marginalize and ultimately to criminalize homosexuality and bisexuality and trans you know being trans this is this is you know this is their goal if you’re not white wealthy and straight the GOP has no use for you we’ll be right back this is the Tom Hartman program 17

Minutes past the hour back with your calls right after This And welcome back Barry in Phoenix Arizona Hey Barry what’s on your mind today hi Tom um good to talk to you um I I what I want to talk about a little bit is um and we’re talking about control and the border and I’m from Phoenix I’m

Born and raised here in Arizona and I’m a little bit frustrated right now I just found out that they have close the border uh down in um lville which is where Phoenicians go to go down to Rocky Point which is the beautiful um sea of Cortez down there it’s a little

Three-hour Drive I’ve been driving down there for 35 years I go in March and I go in October and that border is now closed I just found out legal border crossing you’re talking about the legal border crossing they have closed the Border in lville Arizona and I just kind

Wanted to say I we Democrats need to watch out for um buying into their narrative because I have never really seen any problem when I cross the border there are not people clamoring to come over um as a matter of fact you know when you cross like the little two

Little Arizona towns here that you have to go through before you even get to lukeville they’re dead and dying little towns there’s heiland there’s AO they’re just dead towns but as soon as you cross into senoa there is a Vibrant Community in senoa with people and business and um

You know and and and they’re making their money off American tourists right well this is the thing that I’m afraid of is we’re going to wipe out the little town of Rocky this is where Phoenicians go you know and I think it’s going to kill that little fishing Town

Phoenicians being citizens of Phoenix I’d never heard that word before that’s interesting what Phoenicians what word Phoenicians to describe people live in Phoenix oh my God that’s yeah guess that’s what we’ve been called Forever interesting I didn’t know that but listen I was just looking too at you

Know they have a pretty vibrant um uh um economy I think Mexico’s economy has a huge GDP it does and when you cross over you know you go down to to Rocky Point there’s Walmart and Sam’s Club and well I’m not suggesting the if you’re talking about my argument I’m not

Suggesting that legal border crossing should be closed I that’s crazy yeah although Katie Hobs has been taking a lot of crap I mean you got a Democratic governor now I mean has she said why this is closed or did she have anything to do with it or

Was it the feds I have I have no idea what’s going on and I I you know that’s when I talk about the moneyed interest and things like that and it’s just the control and and how on a Wham these giant interests can just just close down wipe out whole communities and

Everything else and I think there’s way more going on in this false flag I’m not sure what it is but I’m certainly disappointed I drive down to the beach that warm water of the gulf down there it’s a little three-hour drive from Phoenix and and I’m not sure what’s

Going on and I think we need to be very careful about buying into their narrative you know their narrative being I’m not sure what um that they’re clamoring to come over our borders well I mean talk to Eric Adams the mayor of New York City he says that the

Immigrants have overwhelmed his City and it’s being destroyed that’s his word not mine I’m wondering if you I don’t see this huge border uh people flooding over the Border they might be overstate visas or things like that I think mostly it’s coming through I pop into Mexico and I

Feel vibrant I feel like there’s Community I feel like people have little business not not south of the Phoenix border but I’ve been south of the Texas and California borders and yeah you’re absolutely right Barry uh those those those mexic northern Mexico border towns do really well bar Barry I got to run

But thank you for the call uh we’ll be right back 22 minutes past the Hour missed my opening rant today it’s usually published over at Hartman report.com where you can read it and share with your friends for free check it out Hartman report.com so a lot of people are wondering why is it in America that we can’t have nice things

Why don’t we have you know the same things every other democracy has every other democracy in the world has a National Health Care system of some form and everybody is covered we don’t we’ve got 27 million un uninsured people and over a 100 million underinsured people

Why is that why is it that every other country in the world offers college education very inexpensively if not for free and for here you go to debt why is it that we’ve got our Public Schools crumbling and other other countries are doing well why is it that we’ve got

Medicare being taken apart by this Medicare Advantage scam and nobody will do anything about it well it turns out the reason why has it boils down to one thing one Supreme Court decision citizens united legalizing the bribery of our politicians there’s a whole rant about this over at at Hartman report.com

I think you you’re going to find it very very use useful check it out 23 minutes past the hour picking up your calls here David in North Miami Beach Florida hey David what’s on your mind today hey y’all U glad you’re back from Antarctica I’d like to thank you were

Filming the next Shar NATO movie No No Such CH chance right my uh my question is um brother comment part of my running for mayor of North Miami Beach was that we hollowed out our On’s middle class from the 50s and 60s just like you were describing the middle class of America

Getting hollowed out but here we can point to money flowing North to Aventura and relying on you know cheaper rents and frankly uh labor South in North Miami plus the so-called dnut hole where the shopping mall is that doesn’t pay city taxes so we have all these dead

Zones and my attempt was trying to try to you know short out these ex excesses and try to make them work with each other instead of just splitting us apart because you know especially after covid a lot of us either just died off or some retired to Jamaica but that leaves a lot

Of us stuck here with all of the you know all the problems and none of the resources right so this is what I’m going to remind them at City Hall tonight now that we have a new mayor because I dropped out so they could good off good on you

So they did a bad job covering uh they the local press WPLG they just made up stuff about no one knows anything because he went to the wrong place so thank you sir yeah okay thank you David I’m good on you for running for public office that that

Takes a lot of Courage Gary in Monroe Georgia hey Gary what’s on your mind today um first bear with it first happy uh the best wishes to un your family for safe and great you know real nice holiday thank you back at you Gary thank

You I’ve called it kind of Dov tals what you’re talking about I’m getting a little emotional about this you know I’m an emotional person but that that’s who I am I listened yesterday and I’m listening today and I want to get down again to the in my opinion what the

Let’s cut to the I want to cut to the Chase and I’m not saying you don’t I just don’t want I want you to uh to tell me if if I’ve got this wrong I mean if I got if I got it wrong America and you agree with this

Right we’re on the our democracy is on the ropes would you agree with that yeah and we have about 20 seconds Gary okay well here’s the reality greed has no heart may maybe I to write a book you seriously titled greed has no heart you should write yeah

I know it and I’m going to only ask one person to help me with it I’m talking to him I’m thinking about it no I’m serious I’m seriously thinking about it now before you go here here’s the problem it’s greed but you know what it is also

You know what the bottom line is we are our own not all we are Our Own Worst Enemy we can’t continue to behave like that yeah I get it I get it Gary thank you thank you for the call always you know always thoughtful we’ll be back with more of

Your calls right after this it’s 27 minutes past the hour stick Around you’re listening to the Tom Hartman program called 20288 9925 speaking the churs Donald Trump would really rather you didn’t know all about it I’ll be right Back our book today in the Tom Hartman book club is the hidden history of American healthc care why sickness bankrupts you and makes others insanely Rich by by me I wrote this book uh this is from the introduction the title how is single-payer Health Care Systems help stop

Covid-19 Health Care Systems can be National Security Systems just ask anyone from Taiwan from January 20th 2020 the United sta or on January 20th 2020 the United States recorded its first known case of covid-19 infection the following day Taiwan got their first one too by the end of April over a

Million Americans were infected with the virus but Taiwan had recorded only 388 infections and their last case of Lo local transmission was on April 12th a few had arrived on aircraft from other countries all were contained by quarantine as of this writing in September 2020 there hadn’t been a

Single new case or a single death in Taiwan since April the economy never shut down and as of this writing was projected to have grown nearly 2% in 2020 business restaurants theaters and sports events were all open life was back to normal albeit a maske wearing

Normal and it was made possible by their National single-payer Health Care system and their citizens willingness to do their bit for the collective good back in the 1980s Taiwan was on the edge of moving toward a democracy after a military coup in the 1960s and about 40% of Taiwanese families did not have

Health insurance if somebody in a family got sick the cost of care often wiped out that family and demands for reform were loud Across the Nation yua Reinhardt was a german-born healthcare Economist married to a Taiwanese woman and he attended a conference on Healthcare in taipe in 1989 his presentation impressed representatives

Of the government in attendance and while he was still in town for the conference they asked him for his best suggestion for a National Health Care System he and his wife went back to their hotel and discussed the issue in depth finally deciding that a single-payer National system would be

The most cost effective efficient and comprehensive program possible he shared his thoughts with the government representatives and the next day he left Taiwan to go back to Princeton where he was an e economic Professor six months later though a representative of taiwan’s government called him to say

That they were going to take up his suggestion and asked him to help craft their healthc Care Program he enthusiastically agreed and by 1995 Taiwan had instituted one of the world’s best single-payer healthcare systems today everybody in Taiwan is covered for fully covered for doctor and hospital Services everybody has a driver’s

License like Health Care card which accesses their entire medical history they can book a doctor’s appointment on any computer terminal in the country and the entire cost of the system is a bit more than 6% of taiwan’s GDP for comparison in the United States healthc care consumes 24% of our GDP because

There is no insurance company intermediary sucking profits off the system in Taiwan an when covid-19 hit Taiwan chose not to use the blunt force technique of shutting down their economy and locking people in instead instead they took on the Corona virus with an aggressive Nationwide test and contact Trace program tied into the

National Health Service database every infected person was identified and put into a comfortable quarantine and every person he or she had come into contact with even very marginal contacts were also tested and their contacts traced by April just a bit more than 2 months after the first case surfaced the

Country had the Corona virus isolated and completely under control by quarantining inbound visitors to the nation island of 23 million they were able as of this writing to keep it that way maintaining public health is one of the most important functions of any nation’s Health Care system because America’s is so fragmented it’s

Inconceivable that our nation could respond to an epidemic a pandemic or another Public Health disaster with the speed and elegance of Taiwan or any of the world’s other nations with single-payer Medicare for all types of systems it’s like Stockholm syndrome a friend who’s a psychotherapist said describing the way that Americans have

Clung for more than five generations to a four profit health insurance system while the rest of the world figured out how to provide Health Care to all their citizens at a much lower price people know it and have become familiar with it she added they just can’t imagine

Anything else it’s probably the largest con job ever perpetrated on the American people one that has cost trillions of dollars and millions of lives it’s been going on since the 1940s if it were a scientific experiment it would have been shut down by the ethics review panels Generations ago

This experiment in providing Health Care via a for-profit insurance system has Le led to the deaths of more Americans than we lost in World War II every year over a half million Americans go bankrupt often losing everything they’ve worked their entire lives for because somebody in their family got sick that’s a half

Million families a year every year for the past few decades and the Corona virus of course has only made things worse perhaps most guling this massive RIS ripoff is costing our ENT entire nation and each of us individually a fortune insurance premiums right now make up 22% of all taxable payroll well

Above what the cost of Medicare for all would be at around 14% when first put in into place dropping to down to around 10% within a few years as previously uninsured people get their health needs up to date as the health insurance drug and Hospital parasites pushed their

Suckers deeper and deeper into our body politic spending on healthc Care by Americans went up 20% 25% between 201 and 2014 the book The Hidden history of American healthc Care by Tom Hartman hey if you like the rants that I opened the show with every day they’re typically published over at Hartman

Report.com check it out when I was a little kid my grandmother had a piano and I love to play it I I I I was incompetent but I was figuring out all kinds of stuff and then I kind of got away from it and you know went to school

And things got busy and just lost track of it well now there’s this fascinating new study out the University of of Geneva Switzerland that is making me think maybe I should go back and learn the piano uh what they found was that they they they took a group of 132

Healthy older adults retired 62 to 78 years old half of them learned the piano half of them took music classes without learning the piano and what they found was that those who learned the piano actually had the the strongest increase in their memory in their in their in their mental competence their mental

Faculties those who took the music classes Al also did well but the learning the piano was a huge step so check it out there’s a whole long rant about this over at Hartman report.com check it out 35 minutes past the hour picking up your calls Carmen in Philadelphia hey

Carmen what’s on your mind today hey Tom how you doing good what’s up well I heard a little while ago you had a phone call from a gentleman who seems like he was confused about white hatred right wondering why people hating on white people yeah right people hating on whites I’m gonna keep

It simple and nutshell that hatred comes as a response of all the centuries my people my ancestors have been in this country putting up with negative stuff being forced to work to build this country that white people take all the credit for and continues to still treat black

People to this day like we’re Lo lives this is a response there a hatred it’s Justified I get it right how many years did white people think they could abuse other people and not get a and not get a response from that negativity that’s simple in a nutshell yep I AG you

Did it to yourselves yep so live with it okay Carmen well said thank you very much I appreciate it uh Jan and Spokan Washington you wanted to speak to White hatred also um yeah I wanted to talk about the guy who said about uh White hate and I

Would just like to remind him that there is white hate at least that I remember growing up I’m 65 and it brought to mind about 10 years ago my daughter-in-law was talking about another girl and she used the term trailer trash or white trash so yeah there’s white hate and it’s whites against

Whites oh yeah so you’re you’re a white person and your daughter-in-law is white and she was talking about yeah I it’s yeah another white person and calling her I’m not sure that’s hate I think that’s more like looking down on people yeah but I mean I I seen a lady years

Ago did um like a uh uh uh Speech or whatever and how those origins of white trash came to be in trailer trash yeah and how it was focused on poor white people yeah it was a it was a classist by other white people yeah it’s a classic thing yeah so

If he feels like he’s white and he’s poor then he would be considered in those days you know and that mentality is still around we just don’t seem to use those terms anymore yeah I’ve got it and so he’s got white people looking down on him too I you know I totally get

It and and I think it’s important to realize that what he was really saying or at least my opinion of what he was really saying obviously I don’t know the guy or know what’s in his heart but my sense of what he was saying based on having heard these kind of comments for

20 years on this doing this talk show is that what he was really saying is what about us poor oppressed white people and you know why don’t you like Fox News does whenever you know a white person gets attacked by a black person or whenever there’s you know any kind of

Major crime and there’s a black face involved you know Fox News puts that black face out right out there as if you know whenever it involves a crime against white people um you know why aren’t you emphasizing that why aren’t you talking about that and I’m like you

Know well a it’s not that big a crisis in this country it’s I I see a lot more you know you’ve got Nazis out here terrifying Jews and you’ve got racists who are terrifying and killing black people and racist cops killing black people with impunity um you know the

Fact that there’s a there are some black people who who don’t like white people it just does not seem like an issue to me it’s not and shouldn’t be an issue to him because it’s not preventing him from doing anything in his life I mean it’s

Just uh or or enjoying all the privilege of being white yeah but to me yeah to me but all my references according to this woman it was also because you know that period when um I don’t know when it was when blacks and whites got together and elected you know

I don’t know you know better Barack Obama you’re talking about no no I mean in the past oh when they were trying to divide the white poor whites from the blacks they were co uh yeah Coalition well that’s that’s been going on forever you know conservative saying look out white

People those black people want your job look out white people those black people want to you know rape your wife wife whatever Ian me it it it it goes way way way back and it’s still it’s still alive today so Jan I got to move along and

Thank you for the call Ben and spoke hand Washington hey Ben what’s on your mind today hey not much um hopefully I can get your uh opinion on this I’m with a Medicare Advantage plan and just recently I heard a report that they they are denying Nationwide and uh MSNBC or

CNN had a African-American doctor with an empty hospital is who is in a lwi income area who people have this well I’ve just gotten denied myself yep I’ve got a 5.3 cimer aort aneurism and two more two more points of a centimeter and it’s critical and I got denied let me

Just read this to you really quick okay um right here the information sent it shows that you have an abnormal blood V vessel in your belly aortic aneurysm it does not show leg problems it does not show a result of special testing showing weak blood flow to the legs it has

Nothing to do with that if it pops I’m dead so so uh what what company is it that denied you Ben Molina Molina okay I don’t about but I know that some of the really large companies are now using artificial intelligence to deny claims um and and there was an article

Yesterday maybe it was the day before yesterday on one of the message boards I I might have been daily Co that was titled now we know where doctors with high malpractice claims go and it turns out that uh if you’re a doctor and you’ve killed a few people by being an

Incompetent doctor and you’ve got you know so many malpractice lawsuits against you that you can’t get malpractice insurance anymore and so you can’t practice medicine the hosp the the health insurance companies will hire you to spend up to 3 minutes each with applications like like yours Ben for you

Know pay for my aneurism uh to deny them and they’ll literally deny hundreds an hour you know or dozens dozens an hour or whatever it is they just you know sit there and and they’ve got an MD after their name and and there’s probably an MD after the name of the person who

Signed yours and that’s probably an MD who can no longer practice medicine because they’ve been sued for malpractice so many times this is this is why I tell people don’t get Medicare Advantage because with real Medicare there is nobody in between you and your doctor just pay the

Damn bills they don’t ask you know unless they think there’s fraud they don’t they don’t they never deny anything ever it’s just there’s not even a mechanism for yeah yeah I get extra stuff with this Advantage plan that’s not not doesn’t have to be okayed but I’m I’m low-income disability

And I can’t afford anything better but the Social Security you know I don’t have dental with with Medicare I have dental with with my Malina I get you know that benefits until you drop dead from a burst aneurism right what what a tradeoff right hey I

Can have clean teeth when I die of an aneurysm that my health insurance company refuses to pay for fixing yeah I get it plus I take plus I take plus I take care of my 93y old mom and she needs me around I’m 66 yeah there you go

Well appeal it there is an appeal process well we are we are three times about 80% of the time you win the appeals uh because most people don’t bother to appeal and so you know appeal it and raise some hell and then send a a formal complaint to the insurance

Commissioner for the state of Washington oh okay oh thank you yeah that that will that will chafe them that will cost them because they will have to answer it so what was the name of that what was the name of that again I’m sorry the every

Every state has a an office called the office of the insurance commissioner and these are regulatory agencies that oversee insurance companies because insurance companies are so notorious for trying to screw people that every state has had to create a a bureaucracy just to prevent insurance companies from screwing people another reason to go

With real Medicare instead of insurance company Medicare Advantage but I got it then good luck and you know keep us up let us know how it works out okay we do have a nice day thank you paty in a Royo Grande California hey paty what’s on

Your mind today oh yeah um I just wanted to call about your uh thing about closing the Border I’m only halfway through uh you know there with you but when I was 15 years old I’m quite old I was born in 1940 so I’ve lived a lot of

History that you people just talk about but uh I was working uh picking Bo and berries in Southern California and I was able to uh you know work alongside the brasos which the brasero program was in effect then and uh so I really think you know because the farmers do have to get

Their harvests in and we have old people here that need people to take care of them we need to reinstate that U guest worker program because the way it works is when the the job is over they go back to wherever they came from and I worked alongside the whole families you know

With little children and stuff like that and they would pick uh the work was um like 35 cents a box it was peace work but they were able to pick all this stuff during the harvest season and then they’d go with their money and they were

Able to buy stuff with it so that’s part of it the other part we definitely have to have a separate line for you know refugees I mean we just can’t turn our backs on them and then other than that I say yeah close the borders until we get

You know our stuff together yeah it’s it it’s turning into a more more and more nuanced uh argument and debate and um you know and I’m not uh completely drawing a Line in the Sand here with regard to my position uh because there’s so many so many variables on both sides

But taaty thank you thank you very much for the call it’s 45 minutes past the hour we’re picking up your calls here I’ll be right back with more of your calls right after this stay with Us you’re listening to Tom Hartman visit Tom harman.com for audio and video archives speaking the truths the health insurance companies who are hustling the Medicare Advantage scam would really rather you didn’t know all about I’ll be right back with You and welcome back Kathy in Madison Wisconsin hey Kathy what’s on your mind today hi Tom you’re talking about Sant D Conor she busted our Union oh really in 1987 yeah yeah uh we were with Western Airlines I was one of the officers I was actually one of the uh co-founders of

The union and uh we represented all the ground service personnel and way we used to describe it is everybody who moves in the ground except food service and maintenance I mean it was pretty we had like 6,000 members uh Western food in multiple cities in the uh cities west of

The Mississippi basically Alaska Hawaii and Canada so uh we uh Delta makes a purchase offer and a go an announcement in late uh 86 uh for completion April 1st 1987 we had merger Protections in our contract that said in the event of a merger our people would maintain uh all

Contract rights pending a certification election with the merged group of employees uh covered by that contract and everything was cool so we put him on notice uh this is what we’re going to do uh we’re going to expect that an election will occur uh and go forth they

Said no we’re not going to honor that provision of the contract mind you we dealing with Western not deled at all we had no bargaining relationship with Delta so uh we said fine uh we’ll see in court they even wouldn’t arbitrate it they would not even arbitrate it and

Under um labor law uh that governs the airline industry oddly enough it’s a railway Labor Act but it has to do with intern uh in Interstate Transportation right that uh you can go to court immediately you don’t have to necessarily wait around and wait around until you get an agreement to arbitrate

So we went on what’s called a major dispute and things worked its way delin west are continuing their plans refusing to talk to us and uh finally this is the night before the merger we get a dis we get a um a decision out of the night

Circuit court of appeals in said yes the companies have to arbitrate they put an injunction on the merger and they said uh go for an immediate arbitration oh the company uh yeah and I mean the airlines are freaking out because merer supposed to go down so lobbyists jump into action

And where does sandre de o Conor come into this she was in the Supreme Court that night ah and they took it to her that night the rest of the court is asleep at 2:15 in the morning she lists the ninth circuit injunction wow says no yeah she

Said this order from the Circuit Court gives what she call the airlines a Hobson’s choice in other words they don’t really have a choice they must go forward and there was there was this like I hate to use the term rather paternalistic attitude like oh the

Workers would be better off in the long you know kind of thing oh she was always a a rightwing corporate Republican I mean Sandra de o Conor never made any bones about it she was she was there for the rich people period yeah so what happened is that uh

We didn’t Western was dead the Delta went to uh uh the wherever they go in state of Delaware where they Incorporated they fed the filed the papers that they open a business this morning we were gone that was it amazing Kathy thank you for that story that’s that needs to be memorialized that’s

That’s you should write an artic article about it and publish it over news or something oh you did yeah it’s yeah it’s on the Progressive I’ll send you the link okay great thank you Kathy good talking to you it’s 10 minutes before the hour we’ll be right Back Hey thanks so much for sharing our program and for reaching out to our stations and sponsors and letting them know that you’re listening it really means a lot to us so magam Mike and the Republicans want a religious test for people running for public office they want to know that you are sufficiently

Christian to be worthy of being elected right Maga Mike is one of these seven Mountain evangelicals there are seven domains where these dominionists believe that we need to have religion completely take them over education religion family business government military arts and entertainment and the media seriously this is not what Jesus was

Preaching when he said give unto Caesar what is Caesar and onto onto God what is God’s this is the opposite in fact of what Jesus was teaching it’s the opposite of Matthew 25 where Jesus said the only way to get to heaven is by feeding the hungry Healing The Sick

Helping the poor it’s this is counter Christian anti-christian in fact in fact I think you could say it is the antichrist’s work there’s a piece about it over Harman report.com check it Out nine minutes before the hour picking up your calls here corki in Rochester New York hey corki what’s up hey I wish I had that Ladi Union I lost my leg in a bet you lost your leg in a bet yeah I bet my everybody was sick of

My smok and I told him when I die I want to go die at my kitchen table drinking a cup of coffee and my daughter said Dad that’s a little bit selfish don’t you want to see your grandkids grow up I said yeah and so he made a bet she said

I won’t bu you and I won’t bother you about your smoking you just close your bedroom door and put your rug down uhhuh I said huh oh and the smoking cost is that the deal yeah I went to the hospital septic yeah and me and my daughter had a long discussion about

Life and death I’m 72 years old yeah so uh I said all right I’ll make you bet I’ll quit smoking but a couple more years now I keep smoking and uh over a couple more years you seen my grandkids grow up but I got diabetes and or went

Septic and they took my leg off and I know what those guys over and that war we fighting I seen guys guned around fighting onelegged yeah I know with the pain they were going through yeah so I say give it the money to uh our friends over there are you

Talking Ukraine or Israel take the money no take the money away from Israel they lied to us they were taking our money and giving it to the Palestinian yeah and and and give that money to Ukraine I get it okay cor I’m sorry to hear about your betat in

Your leg I you know it’s uh smoking is a really really terrible addiction it really is I you know I was addicted to Tobacco when I was a teenager and it was the hardest drug I’ve ever kicked and I’ve tried pretty much every drug out

There uh it’s nasty stuff so I’m I’m I’m glad you’re on the other side of it Cory thank you for the call and and happy happy holidays Wendy in Parkland Florida hey Wendy what’s on your mind today hey Tom uh we when you were talking about

The um all the um obstacles that the uh abortion anti-abortion people are trying to put in the way of the petition in Florida right um do you know what the obstacles are because I’m trying to figure out how do you stop people from circulating petitions I haven’t come across them but

I can tell you that the people who are responsible for getting the signatures and I can’t remember the name of the the organization I apologize but they are doing what they can to avoid that I signed the petition several months ago and I got a letter in the mail last week

From them saying we see that you signed the petition there’s somebody else in your household that that hasn’t signed maybe they would like to sign would you be willing to give us their information and anybody else that you think might be willing to sign and I gave them a list

Of 10 of my family and friends who I think will be a you know would be willing to sign so this way they don’t go door to door they’re not quite as public exactly interesting exactly very interesting so I was I was really happy

To see that and and I let all of my family and friends know that I did this it’s not you know it’s not a scam please sign and you know let all of your you know other friends and family know who you think might want to be able to sign

Put their names on it and get this thing on the ballot we need it yeah Republicans are absolutely hysterical they do not want these ballot measures first off they bring Democrats to the polls but more importantly it it legalizes abortion and these Republicans just think that women should not be able

To make that decision that’s a decision that should be made by men in in courtrooms and in legislatures I mean period yeah and I laugh every time you know they talk about you know the Democrats are going to you know have death panels yeah well where are they

Coming from hello yeah yeah Republican oh yeah and and I mean look at Kate Co Cox down in Texas she could have died right and they and they were just fine with that yeah and there are women who have died and who have you know lost the

Ability to have more children because of of the you know not being able to get an abortion when they needed it and women whose lives are just you know economically and and and familywise destroyed yeah yeah and and and and then and then when these babies are born uh

They don’t give a crap about them pardon my language and then you know they want to take away Wick they want to take away everything to help support them yep it so we we’ we’ve got to get out and vote we’ve got to get this initiative on the

Ballot to get more Democrats out and voting in in Florida and maybe just maybe we can get some seats in our legislature and and stop this madness down here I agree with you and and so the bottom line Wendy is if for anybody listening if you live in a red State and

You get a petition that you can sign to put a ballot measure on about abortion you know about decriminalizing abortion in your state go for it and bring all your friends and family like Wendy did Wendy thanks for the call good on you thanks happy holidays thank you you too

Good talking to you we’re hitting the top of the hour here on the other side of this break Dr Eric figing is going to drop by we’re going to get the latest as we you know are here in the midst of the holiday season we’re going to get the

Latest about what’s going on with Co and RSV and the flu and everything else so stay tuned you’re listening to Tom Hartman in addition to bringing you the Tom Hartman program here on Free Speech TV and video media online we also have a whole interact with us and tools you can use to spread the word about the importance of democracy and the threats to it in our Republic first there’s your

Daily homework Su neut puts together a daily email newsletter that has a link to every story I discuss on the air so you can find my sources and you can share them with your friends it’s free and you can sign up at tomh harman.com second I publish my daily take every day

Over at the Hartman report.com website that’s also free if you want the daily 5 days a week rant in your inbox no ads either third we have the podcast there’s the free one-hour version of Our Daily Show that’s advertising supported you can find that wherever you get your

Podcast normally and then there’s also the podcast of the entire three-hour show with no advertisements and that’s available by subscription over at tomh harman.com so check them all out at tomh harman.com and Hartman report.com we say F Back Our book today in the Tom Hartman book club is the hidden history of American Health Care why sickness bankrupts you and makes others insanely Rich by by me I wrote this book uh this is from the introduction the title how a single-payer Health Care Systems help stop covid-19 Health Care Systems can be

National Security Systems just ask anyone from Taiwan from January 20th 2020 the United sta or on January 20 2020 the United States recorded its first known case of covid-19 infection the following day Taiwan got their first one too by the end of April over a million Americans were infected with the

Virus but Taiwan had recorded only 388 infections and their last case of Lo local transmission was on April 12th a few had arrived on aircraft from other countries all were contained by quarantine as of this writing in September 2020 there hadn’t been a single new case or a single death in

Taiwan since April the economy never shut down and as of this writing was projected to have grown nearly 2% in 2020 business restaurants theaters and sports events were all open life was back to normal albeit a maske wearing normal and it was made possible by their National single-payer Health Care system

And their citizens willingness to do their bit for the collective good back in the 1980s Taiwan was on the edge of moving toward a democracy after a military coup in the 1960s and about 40% of Taiwanese families did not have health insurance if somebody in a family

Got sick the cost of care often wiped out that family and demands for reform were loud Across the Nation yua Reinhardt was a German born Healthcare Economist married to a Taiwanese woman and he attended a conference on Healthcare in Taipei in 1989 his presentation impressed representatives of the government in attendance and

While he was still in town for the conference they asked him for his best suggestion for a National Health Care System he and his wife went back to their hotel and discussed the issue in depth finally deciding that a single-payer National system would be the most coste effective efficient and

Comprehensive program possible he shared his thoughts with the government representatives and the next day he left Taiwan to go back to Princeton where he was an e economic Professor 6 months later though a representative of taiwan’s government called him to say that they were going to take up his

Suggestion and asked him to help craft their healthc Care Program he enthusiastically agreed and by 1995 Taiwan had instituted one of the world’s best single-payer healthc Care Systems today everybody in Taiwan is covered for fully covered for doctor and hospital Services everybody has a driver’s license like healthare card which

Accesses their entire medical history they can book a doctor’s appointment on any computer terminal in the country and the entire cost of the system is a bit more than 6% of taiwan’s GDP for comparison in the United States healthc care consumes 24% of our GDP because there is no insurance company

Intermediary sucking profits off the system in Taiwan when covid-19 hit Taiwan chose not to use the blunt force technique of shutting down their economy and locking people in instead instead they took on the Corona virus with an aggressive Nationwide test and contact Trace program tied into the National Health Service database every

Infected person was identified and put into a comfortable quarantine and every person he or she had come into contact with even very marginal contacts were also tested and their contacts traced by April just a bit more than two months after the first case surfaced the country had the Corona virus isolated

And completely under control Ro by quarantining inbound visitors to the nation island of 23 million they were able as of this writing to keep it that way maintaining public health is one of the most important functions of any nation’s Health Care system because America’s is so fragmented it’s inconceivable that our nation could

Respond to an epidemic a pandemic or another Public Health disaster with the speed and elegance of Taiwan or any of the world’s other nations with single-payer Medicare for all types of systems it’s like Stockholm syndrome a friend who’s a psychotherapist said describing the way that Americans have clung for

More than five generations to a for-profit health insurance system while the rest of the world figured out how to provide Health Care to all their citizens at a much lower price people know it and have become familiar with it she added they just can’t imagine anything else it’s probably the largest

Con job ever perpetrated on the American people one that has cost trillions of dollars and millions millions of lives it’s been going on since the 1940s if it were a scientific experiment it would have been shut down by the ethics review panels Generations ago this experiment in providing Health Care

Via a for-profit insurance system has Le led to the deaths of more Americans than we lost in World War II every year over a half million Americans go bankrupt often losing everything they’ve worked their entire lives for because somebody in their family got sick that’s a half

Million families a year every year for the past few decades and the Corona virus of course has only made things worse perhaps most ging this massive RIS ripoff is costing our ENT entire nation and each of us individually a fortune insurance premiums right now make up 22%

Of all taxable payroll well above what the cost of Medicare for all would be at around 14% when first put into place dropping to down to around 10% within a few years as previously uninsured people get their health needs up today as the health insurance drug and Hospital parasites push their suckers

Deeper and deeper into our body politic spending on healthc Care by Americans went up 20% 25% between 201 and 2014 the book The Hidden history of American Health Care by Tom Harman This is the Tom Hartman program and welcome to the third hour of our program on the line with us our old buddy Dr Eric feling the epidemiologist and health Economist with the New England complex systems Institute the first whistleblower on the covid pandemic former faculty member and researcher at the Harvard Medical School

And the Harvard th Chan School of Public Health um fas.org his Twitter handle is Dr Eric ding d r r i c d i n g and Dr feling welcome back to the program it’s so nice to have you with us it’s uh it seems like the U uh the disease

Situation out there is starting to get wild again is it the season yeah it is unfortunately one of these days you need to call me back when it’s not crazy Co there you go so so you know let’s break this out and and and break it down just

To start out with with Co the thing that you and I first started talking about a couple years ago um and and you’ve been I know so on top of over the years what what is the current state of Co how lethal is the are the current strains of

Co how how contagious is it how you know what kind of threat does it represent to us there’s a new variant that is currently causing a worldwide surge it’s called JN do1 jn1 so this jn1 variant is highly evasive um against pre-existing immunity now the vaccines that we got the I hope

Everyone got the new um annual booster shots uh it’s an xpb monovalent Co shots that they released after Labor Day I hope everyone’s got it because that one is the best protection you can have because if you have were previously vaccinated last year um or previously infected before September you’re not

Really well protected at all because this is a radically new strain and it’s causing hospitalization surges Wastewater now is at like the second highest peak we’ve ever had in Wastewater level United States and especially in uh in the in new New England Northeast but surgeon Nationwide

And so I think we’re in a we’re going to be in quite of a pickle over Christmas and and early January because the covid rates are really rising and hospitalizations are rising behind it as well yeah and people are slamming into airports and and and crowding into homes

In the winter time indoor with lousy ventilation for the holidays and things um I I I read about the the jn1 or this you know the the variant you were just talking about there there’s a previous son of amcron that had been the big one just six months ago what is there a

Difference between these two oh yeah the difference so everything is right now is a son or daughter of an Omicron but we’re so far removed from the original Omicron that we should honestly stop using it we we’re so far removed that Omicron is closer to the original strain

Than we are in from Omicron because the jn1 is like a new Str and today just today the who has announced that they’ve elevated the risk of jn1 to variant of interest um previously it was just variant of observation but now they’re really uh concerned about it the variant

Of Interest means they’re really monitoring tracking this because in the CDC also reports now over 20% of us cases but in the New England Northeast it’s even higher than that so uh this is very evasive against pre-existing immunity our current vaccines do neutralize and protect uh against severe

Disease but it’s not that great against transmission and I want to remind people ultimately it’s not how it is to you it’s how transmissible it is to and eventually will’ll find um vulnerable people and so you may think you’re immune uh if you’re even if you’re

Boosted but by passing it on to others you can actually endanger more people who are less protected than you yeah I I recently recently took a trip and there was a a fellow uh Louis I went to Antarctica a couple weeks ago and there

Was a fellow who was on the trip with us who came down with covid and and uh you know on the way back he just went through the airports just like everybody else and he was quite sick um he was he was uh kind enough I guess to to wear a

Mask and to tell people that he was sick and to tell people to stay away from him um uh but still I mean you know you’re sitting next to somebody on an airplane but people are just not going to give up their $1,600 airplane tickets you know they if they and there’s so

Little M mitigation now in certain ways like we actually used to wear mask a lot more last year and two years ago three years ago but now there’s people are much more Laz Fair the the media doesn’t talk about it because God forbid commercial real estate would re really

Prefer we don’t talk about we can’t talk about Co right I get it and it’s it’s it’s become like this topic but it’s still there and there’s a concern because covid also makes you more vulnerable damages te- cells and many experts are saying a lot of the rise of

Many other viruses and illnesses are because the covid has made us weaker in our immune system and and less protected against them now it’s not like HIV but still it’s like a little bit weaker but millions of people hundreds of millions of people infected billions of people infected means a lot more opportunistic

Infections not to mention long Co um how much of a problem is long Co these days and one but I tell people you know even if it’s one in 10 mild people who have mild covid will get long on covid most people 90 95% have not mild if 10% of

95% of people are mild that means 10% you know basically have long Co and and even more if you have more severe so it’s a real concern not just a hand waving thing we’re also reading about um several hundred deaths I think the latest number

I saw was four 500 deaths a day you know in hospitals across the United States from covid are these largely conf find to people who just you know you would expect to die from even the flu you know very elderly very infirm very very sick people are they mostly people who are

Not vaccinated or or what it’s not just Elder infirm because vac vaccinator gives you like a baseline protection but uh vac vaccinations lower your long Co risk but not that much and in terms of hospitalization risk vaccines definitely cut your your hospitalization risk up a lot but less so against newer variants

So it’s still important like I would say cutting your risk by 50% is really important right but it may not cut your risk of hospitalization by 90% anymore that’s the worry with these newer variants you’re protected but not the 90% protection against hospitalization and death that you were before it’s

Probably like 80 70 or 60 and I I tell people look you know 80s 7 60s still better than zero protection compared to not being boosted but you should not assume that the vaccine you got back in 2021 uh or a booster you got in 2022 is

Going to be that much because honestly it doesn’t this jn1 has highly evolved and mutated and unless you had the most recent version of the xbb monov veillance shot that they offered after that Labor Day this year you’re not much protected at all and the last statistic I saw was that something like

Fewer than 20% of Americans something like 16 or 17% of Americans who were eligible for That vaccine had gotten it yeah am I remembering that right the up like the billant last year was only 15% and we’re already at 15% basically and we’ve completely flatlined the uptake of V of covid

Vaccine Des shots completely flatlined people are not taking it anymore and in certain ways that’s very very worrisome because you know it’s before people were more cautious now less people are getting them than originally the first wave and um we’re not actually taking precautions anymore but I think we need

The HEPA filters so you know the best Christmas gift you can give someone honestly is if you show up at Christmas and you bring your own HEPA filter and you open the windows you you actually help your friends disinfect the party rooms around you um because you know I’m

Not going to stop people’s Christmas but at the same time you know we’re not testing enough um so at least bring your own HEPA filters to a party honestly that’s the smartest thing to do be vaccinated and be vaccinated yeah and wear a mask as I did all the way back

From Australia or ar excuse me uh Antarctica um we’re talking with Dr Eric figing doc can you stick around for a little bit sure great yeah because I wanted to get into flu and RSV and these other uh Airborne diseases here um we’ll be right back with Dr Eric Felding

Epidemiologist and health Economist with the New England complex systems Institute you can follow him on Twitter at Dr Eric ding d e r i ding this is the Tom Hartman program we’re right back with more of my conversation here with Dr Eric feling stay with Us so Dr fing we have also flu and RSV let’s talk about flu first um is the flu this year any different than normal flu and and remind us how dangerous or not normal flu is particularly for people who are you know over 50 yeah flu every year flu mutates a lot

And flu mutates even more than covid um and so that’s what you need the annual flu shot as well and annual flu shots have also kind of flatlined although there’s more people who’ve gotten the flu shot than covid shot which is thankfully good news but it’s it’s

Getting people to uptake them it’s very difficult that and all these flu shots by the way are kind of like predesigned nine months before flu season so we kind of hope and pray that it we got the right formula formulation for them and we have so but the flu shot

Is concurrently increasing but you know what protect and same with RSV but you know what protects against all of them masking Airborne disinfection all of these things are agnostic of variants agnostic of what the Airborne respiratory pathogen is right and I really encourage people to consider them especially around the holidays yeah I

Just it just a a personal anecdote for what it’s worth I mean coming back from Antarctica we we it was a 5H hour flight from Yia to Buenos arees it was an 11-hour flight from buenos arees to Houston it was a 6-hour flight from Houston to to Portland and it was um

Hours and hours and hours probably a total of eight or nine hours in airports in between and all around Louis I people were just constantly coughing and visibly sick and we just religiously wore our masks everywhere we went and and you know knock wood I’m not bragging

Here I don’t want to get struck down for hubris But but so far so good and it’s been you know been at home three weeks now so uh I think we we dodged the bullet but it seems like that’s the way to do it right if you’re if you’re going

To you know go out for for the holidays or if you’re going to you know travel wear a mask everywhere you’re in public yeah definitely and especially in crowded areas so this is where you know I sometimes say personal protection as in you know we can’t just bring a giant

HEPA filter but there are like portable things you can also bring in addition in places where you have to take off a mask or if you have to eat in a restaurant there are like TBL siiz little things you can actually bring with you yeah although I’m I’m willing to be just

Hungry I if that’s the cost of not getting sick no but I think we should the RSV shot though is available only for the elderly and for children so it’s not for everyone yet yeah um well I want to get to that in just a minute but but

Just a close up flu here we’ve got about 40 seconds before we hit a a break I have to read a commercial and then we’ll be right back and we can talk about RSV but with flu uh unlike covid is transmissible from surface from touch um

Can you speak to that yeah Co is as well uh surface Airborne is much more predominant but but you know my understanding is that most flu transmission like in airports and things is from touching door knobs and whatnot rather than from the guy next to you coughing Am I Wrong necessarily true

That’s like an outdated transmission we now believe that these small aerosols small micro droplets can actually stay airborne for a very very long time so it’s uh it wherever there’s poor ventilation I I use my ear to kind of listen is there good ventilation right then become extra careful if there’s

Very stale air yeah there you go there you go we’re talking with Dr Eric Felding the epidemiologist and health Economist with New England complex systems Institute Dr Eric ding over on Twitter is his uh the best way to reach him and and follow him I encourage you

To do that I’ll be back with you in 60 seconds I have to read a commercial on the commercial side there’ll be a promo on this side and we’ll be right back back with Dr F change starts with you you can be calling your Democratic or republican representatives to let them know what you think by calling 202-224-3121 it’s the capital switchboard it’ll get you right through to him back in 2010 when Victor orbon took over the fedz party in Hungary uh

That party was sort of like the Republican party it was just a conventional conservative European political party and he has turned it into a Neo fascist Powerhouse um he he pushed through the he alter the nation’s Constitution to push through what we would call Jerry Mandarin and voter suppression so that

His party will always win he campaigned on building a wall build a wall was literally one of his campaign slogans and he did build a wall across the southern border of Hungary to to keep out Syrian refugees who were fleeing the the violence when Russia was bombing

That country um his other two campaign slogans were and I quote restore Christian Purity and make Hungary great again seriously back in 2010 six years before Trump there’s an amazing backstory about how Victor Orban is being cloned essentially in the GOP you could find the article over at Hartman report.com check it

Out welcome back we’re speaking with Dr Eric feling he is the epidemiologist Health Economist at the New England complex systems Institute you can follow him on Twitter at Dr Eric ding uh Dr feling um we were talking just a moment ago about flu and and you pointed out

That uh the old notion that you get flu from not washing your hands often enough there’s still some truth to it um but that mostly it’s aerosol transmission so we’re back to masks and and get your damn flu shots um let’s talk about RSV for a moment I there’s a new r SV

Vaccine that I understand is mostly for older people um but uh you know one of my grandkids had RSV recently I mean this this is kind of all over the place tell us what it is and why we should be concerned about it yeah so we actually

Call RP shot because in many ways the main one we use is a is actually a monoc antibody so um that actually gives you a a temporary protection for like a few weeks or a month so that’s actually um what we’re using um it’s not the same as

A flu or or covid vaccine per se but we that we’re g that’s what we’re limited and we’re there’s a shortage Nationwide shortage of RSV shots and we’re limiting it to justce the elderly and for children yeah I’m in my 70s I was able

To get one it knocked me down it was the the I had a stronger reaction to that than I think any other shot I’ve had other than shingles um but are you saying it only it it was only effective for a month or two for a few months for

A few months because it’s not a it’s not a true vaccine it’s a mon but but it will it will get you through the cold and flu season of the winter and I think that’s I think that’s really key um but you know we call it some people call it

A vaccine and that’s fine uh at the end of the day RSV it’s it’s different from flu and covid but it is something that will strike the elderly and young children down and so we have to be extra careful around around them these are very vulnerable populations and

Sometimes when you get hit with two or three of them you know as a you know double or triple whammy that’s when even though you could be immune or relatively healthy against one if all three hits you at the same time you’re going to be in trouble is it possible to get covid

RSV and the flu all at the same time why not there’s no reason why you can’t really I would think your immune system would be in such hyperdrive when it’s reacting to one of them that it would fend off the others that they would have to come sequentially

Different viruses they’re not the same thing so so like it’s it’s not like some people say you have some cross reactivity against the common cold and then against Co because some uh common cold Corona viruses you have cross reactivity protection no this is different RSV is very respiratory sensal

Virus is very different than influenza is very different than the SARS 2 Corona virus so finish your thought please so so I really don’t want people realize that dur when it rains and pours during winter the G indoor Gatherings you know because it’s cold outside everyone gathers in together so the risk are

Actually higher for for transmission for all three so open your windows get your hea filters and wear your damn masks um there are other diseases that are floating around I’m I’m uh two of my kids uh are uh you know have graduate degrees in medicine and see patients on

A regular basis and and one of them Works in a hospital here in town and I’m I’m hearing all kinds of wild stuff about respiratory diseases that nobody can figure out what they are but they sure are nasty what what’s going on with that yeah there is this um uh there’s

This a pneumonia outbreak in China that started in China but uh so it’s it’s Michael plastic pneumonia it’s a different type of uh um it’s not viral but there there’s real concerns because it’s it’s antibiotic resistant oftentimes in China and uh it’s stricken a lot of kids now some

People were saying oh it’s the Chinese lockdowns or something but I wonder um first of all China’s lockdown was only very temporary and not not within China and also Netherlands is seeing a record high of this same pneumonia in children as well and Netherlands has not had and

And same with Denmark and France who’s also seeing this has not had lockdowns for like many many years so it’s it’s not lockdowns it is really a surge some people are debating the causes um you know one the precautionary Camp thinks it’s because covid harming the immune system and therefore weakening the

Immune system making us more susceptible to all these but regardless like it is going around and if there’s another mystery virus I’ve yet to um you know figure out whether it’s truly spreading but all these together winter cold flu RSV covid uh season it is is always problematic especially it’s always

Christmas is always a super spreading event I’m not telling people not to have Christmas but just be more careful be more mindful take as many precautions as you can because if they all double triple quadruple stack up together it even if you’re healthy it will strike

You down and uh so we don’t want to have too much arrogance and hubris as you said yeah so so wear your masks keep the he filters running and all that kind of thing Dr ER fing it it is always so great talking with you you give us you

Know such great rational non- hysterical thoughtful information I really appreciate it thank you for dropping by Sir than good talking with you thank you and happy holidays it is 27 minutes past the hour I’ll be picking up your phone calls on the other side of the break stay tuned it’s the Tom Hartman

Program the place where despair is not option you’re listening to the Tom Hartman program Call 20288 9925 your media support group for We the People be right back with your calls right after This we’re reading today from truth in our Times by David E McCraw uh Deputy general counsel of the New York Times the uh number two lawyer for the New York Times this is from chapter one titled election day it opens with a tweet from Donald Trump the failing New

York Times has been wrong about me from the very beginning sadly I would lose the primaries oh said I would use the lose the primaries on the general lectured fake News November 8 2016 at 10 I made one last Circuit of The Newsroom our CEO Mark Thompson stood near the political

Desk looking on with his wife and a small group of others connected somehow to the times Pennsylvania Wisconsin and Michigan remained in doubt but the reality was sinking in Donald Trump was on a verge of winning the American presidency I’d been in newsrooms on Election nights before I know how it’s

Supposed to be the only thing that ever mattered was the horse race I think Gore Bush or the historic moment think Obama McCain there was no investment in which candidate was winning he she was destined to disappoint in the long run and the dominant emotion was a certain

Not quite cynical Detachment amid the electric buzz of the vote count and projections in the anticipation of relief that the endless push of the campaign was finally over sure you can’t couldn’t ignore the victories or the big picture moments and the day after stories would be celebratory on their

Way duly restrained but with a nod to Victory itself not unlike the next day account of a Super Bowl game or the or game seven of the World Series capture the Triumph for a night or relish the race too close to call leave the dancing and crying for others for

The Believers but this light night was like no other election night there had been an investment not just journalistic but spiritual Donald Trump had CA campaigned not just against Hillary Clinton but also against the New York Times and the American press the mainstream American Press and his

Astonishing rise to the top of the Republican Party had been built on his near daily attacks on facts on the very idea that facts matter for journalists who approach truth like a secular religion and who have seen a thousand times how before how a single true story

Could gut the political career of a lying politician it had been a year of Faith shaking disbelief a line had not just been crossed but obliterated the shock was palpable as the numbers came in laced for some with the fading hope for a different outcome among people who

Generally wanted nothing more more than a story worth telling and there was still a paper to put out a reckoning to account for it was too much on an already long night I slipped away at the elevators I ran into Sue Craig and a guy who is obviously not from the times Sue

Had broken one of the biggest stories of the campaign she was the one who went to her mailbox one day in September and found pages from Donald Trump’s tax returns in an envelope she introduced me to her acquaintance he had once worked for Trump I didn’t ask why he was there

Like me Sue had decided to get away it’s too weird here she said we all got on the elevator Sue who had written a devastating story about Trump me who’s letter to Trump’s lawyer had L lit up the internet for a week in October in one of Trump’s guys we wrote in silence

A strange tblo on the Tableau on the strangest night of the year 14 hours earlier as I came into the building the times security guard had called me over they wanted to make sure I knew about the plans for the next morning in the quirky ways that things happen at the

Times I had become the lawyer to see for all the things that Security Guys encountered from the Intruder who pilfered women’s shoes to the anonymous letter weaponized with razor blades the times was printing thousands of extra newspapers and tables were going to be set up outside for all the people who

Would be showing up to buy the New York Times for posterity’s sake the headline I later Learned was going to read Madame President we had been caught flat footed 8 years earlier when Barack Obama had made history by the time I arrived for work early in the morning morning of the

2008 election the line was already starting to snake down the sidewalk soon there were hundreds of Obama supporters who thought and why wouldn’t they that the that the place to buy a copy of the New York Times was surely at the New York Times lots of things happen at the

Times building selling newspapers is not one of them employees were pressed into emergency duty to cart bundles of newspapers from the Times Printing plant and queens and the long lines outside the building stretched on into the afternoon but it was Obama’s victory in 2012 that was on my mind this morning I

Vote in a neighborhood that is predominantly black and middle class in 2012 following a drum beat of stories about how Republicans H to suppress voter turnout I walked into my polling place at a local school 8 minutes after it opened the line already extended back to the schoolhouse door did y’ all sleep

Here a guy wanted to know as he stepped into the foyer on this morning in 2016 I had arrived before Dawn I was the only one in line at my precincts table that all seemed like a strangely distant memory at as midnight approached I had made my escape from the building with

Sue and the Trump guy at home I sat alone in the glow the TV screens as the states that mattered fell into place for the Republicans I turned it off Donald Trump was about to become president of the United States the next morning in a light drizzle on a gray November day the

Newspaper sales tables were set upside up outside the building as planned no one stopped the vendors sat idly amid the stacks there was no Madam president front page instead the headline read Trump triumphs and the first two paragraphs of the lead story talked about how the vote threatened convulsions throughout the country and

Made an early mention of those who had watched with alarm the rise of trump nearly half the country had voted for the man I just spent a weekend in October back in rural Illinois in my hometown and for a moment I allowed myself to see the coverage Through The

Eyes of the rest of America where at least for this one night his victory represented a certain kind of hope that change was is going to come at last truth in our Times by David Mcra from International Trade policy to immigration policy to housing we’ve got all kinds of topics the wars between Republicans and Democrats the Republican efforts to induce fascism in the United States a great selection of opinions will be found over at Hartman report.com so magam Mike and the Republicans want a

Religious test for people running for public office they want to know that you are sufficiently Christian to be worthy of being elected right Maga Mike is one of these seven Mountain evangelicals there are seven domains where these dominionists believe that we need to have religion completely take them over education

Religion family business government military arts and entertainment and the media seriously this is not what Jesus was preaching when he said give unto Caesar what is Caesar and onto onto God what is Gods this is the opposite in fact of what Jesus was teaching it’s the opposite of

Matthew 25 where Jesus said the only way to get to heaven is by feeding the hungry Healing The Sick helping the poor it’s this is counter Christian anti-christian in fact in fact I think you could say it is the antichrist’s work there’s a piece about it over Hartman report.com check it

Out welcome back it’s 35 minutes past the hour let’s find out what’s on your mind today Mary in mil Creek Washington hey Mary what’s up hey Tom I’m calling back in a much better head space I called last week about Teamsters uh you know selling out and going uh Medicare Advantage oh yeah

I remember well you you had some callers and uh they certainly inspired me and kind of bumped me out of my Despair and I got on the horn and started looking at my options so we ended up uh not going with Teamsters we dropped it and we’re going with Mutual of Omaha which

Offers a very comparable I’m not paying very much more per month than I was when I was being covered by Teamsters so it’s not bad so this is this a metag gap policy with Medicare or is this a Medicare Advantage policy no no no no no

No no no I was able to buy a metag gap through mutual OFA and get my dents all and all that stuff yeah drug everything I want to tell you something that was bizarre that I learned though Patrick the guy that worked with me he was

Awesome he uh I said he said well how did you find out about Mutual Baha so I told him well I watched I listened to Tom Harton show I called in in despair about uh my Teamster selling out the Medicare Advantage and there was a couple callers and you know they steered

Me towards you and I said so why don’t you advertise on Tom and he said and he said uh if only we could he said only Medicare Advantage is able to advertise they can only have information on their website people offering supplemental packages are not allowed to advertise

Really now what the heck is that about I’ll bet that goes back to the original Medicare law in 1967 I don’t know but and maybe they’re not maybe Medicare Advantage doesn’t fall under it because it’s quote not Medicare or maybe he just maybe he was

Wrong I mean I have seen ads on TV for metag Gap plans the you know I saw one for United Healthcare the other day so I think he might just be wrong might are you yeah it was it was definitely a metag gap plan I I know that you know I

I know the difference and and and it occurred to me that I mean you know when when uh these insurance companies contract with u insurance agents uh you know they pay a commission that’s in the neighborhood of ,000 if you can sign somebody up for Medicare Advantage but

They only pay a commission of $200 or $300 if you can sign somebody up for a metag gap plan so they’re just they’re not as profitable because they’re heavily regulated under the original Medicare law and and Can’t Screw you you know they can’t pre they don’t require pre-authorization all that kind of stuff

And so probably the companies are just not inclined to advertise because it’s not a big money maker for them like Medicare Advantage uh I don’t know I mean he said that he personally used to uh work for an organization or for a company that’s all they did was sell uh uh Medicare

Advantage and he said you know he had to really look at what a kind of a scam it was he didn’t use that word but you know he used every other word he could use without get message yeah so he said you know he got a soul back and went to uh

This company and now he sells metag gap insurance he believes that’s the right way to go for people yeah I agree I I I I think it is I just paid my annual premium on mine so yeah so I just wanted to say thank you because I was very I

Was so discouraged I thought do got it they’ve won yeah but uh uh well it’s a shame that the teamers lot better my husband and I feel like we haven’t sold out we feel comfortable in our skin we feel like we have not betrayed our morals or our you know objectives uh for

We I mean as a Democrat it’s about we us well in addition to that you’re you’re less likely to have an insurance company refuse to pay for life-saving procedures you know exactly I mean we just had a call last hour from guy who who’s got an embolism and uh the his insurance

Company just turned him down you know said no we won’t pay for the fixing it it’s insane it’s insane so I feel sorry for all the people who’ve been duped by this and I’m just so very very thankful for you and your uh regular viewers because they Morris was great I think it

Was a Bobby that told us about you know that’s talked about the other and uh just thank you because I was really in a bad bad head space I thought oh no well I’m glad it all worked out for you Mary now Mary good good I Gotta Move

Along happy holidays Mary and thank you so much for the call um happy you too thank you very much Mike in Seattle hey Mike what’s on your mind today Mike in Seattle yeah hi Tom hey Mike what’s up can you hear me I can sort of hey uh more or

Less two uh two things first one’s quick my wife and I were talking the other day have I been listening to you since the mid90s no we started this show in 2003 in March of 2003 wh Mike just vanished from the board he must have hit

The hang up button by accident uh but anyhow that’s that’s how long we’ve been doing the show it’s been 20 years this year mark in Okala Florida hey Mark what’s on your mind today hey Tom welcome back to the States thank you I uh spent a little time at Thea

Airport uh one afternoon when I worked at the US Embassy in Argentina but I’m um I ran out there to uh help help the Americans get some supplies to the Embassy and as you can probably I don’t know if you did you make it into buen Aries from the airport yeah we were

There for two days it was the day of the election and the day after it was fascinating oh I’m and how how catastrophic that election and uh how sad I I I was right there after the end of the um uh the uprising um back in the

Back in the 80s we actually the uh the Marines actually still had U well we had sniper rifles I don’t know if I should say that open source but they were meant for defense of the embassy I get it I was there in two in

97 96 97 98 right around that it was whatever whatever year it was that they that the peso completely crashed and the IMF cut them off and I was staying a family in an upper middle class neighborhood and about a third of the houses on their street had Furniture in

The front of the house with four sale signs on it CU so many people had lost their jobs they were selling their their furniture and their TVs and Stereos and things to try to just you know buy food I mean and this was the upper middle class neighborhoods I mean that was just

Crazy right and and my my prediction is this this gentleman with his chainsaws about to recreate that y Mr you bet and now he’s authorized the military to shoot shoot at protesters if anybody protests his policies well good God where where did he get that idea from

Exact sorry exactly you know uh with Tom I I just said 23 years with the carpenters union and I primarily worked the nuclear power plant circuit we call it and I was really calling to address the the young guy that called earlier I felt sorry when I I heard him and then

But I do appreciate your question to him you said what you know how long did you when did you join or something and he said 2022 and what I think and and I have to and I kept I kept my eye on on new members the whole time I was working

We we um currently are wrapping up two nuclear power plants uh near Augusta Georgia uh it’s about a$ 29 billion doll job it’s 100% Union bill uh and uh but you know so we’ got new people coming in uh quite a bit and and and and they would have questions about insurance so

And what I would tell that listener and anyone listening you have to work so many hours a quar to be eligible for your own insurance which is not taken out of your paycheck it’s part of negotiated contract it’s it’s it’s an above and beyond your wages this is something that’s provided to you

Automatically through the agreement of who you’re working for um and the project that you’re on so that doesn’t come out of your wages I I actually work for Peter kwit uh based out of Omaha uh and they have a they have a non-union and a union side and I work for the

Non-union side in Atlanta Georgia um for Gilbert Southern and they used to take the insurance out and then I ended up working for Peter would in Omaha at a coal plant where it didn’t come out of my check so i’ I’ve actually experienced both sides of the coin but interesting I

Just I I would just also close with so it it only takes about for Carpenters it only takes about 300 hours a quarter so if you work 40 hours a week uh which Carpenters usually can’t afford to do that we work we usually work 70 or 80s we work 612s or 712s or

610 uh or or 710 uh so we put in a lot of overtime yeah um and so that’s my point and so 300 hours and a quarter and you’re only working um so you’re only so my point is at 40 hours a week that’s 480 uh hours uh straight time you you

Don’t even have to work you only have to work like two months out of three to be eligible for the insurance it’s really they make it a really good deal and the month in the monthly dues Tom I’ll get out of your hair the monthly dues are

Only like $20 a month and all that’s part of the I think he was just somebody who wanted to complain about unions Mark I mean uh I imagine you get those guys once in a while Tom surprise surprise right well goly G whiz all right Tom thanks for correcting the setting the record

Straight Mark I appreciate it good to hear from thank you and thanks for listening to us down there in Okala Florida it’s 45 minutes past the hour we’ll be back with your calls right after this you’re listening to Tom Hartman visit Tom harman.com for audio and video archives it’s the place where smart

People get their news And welcome back Regina in Waco Texas hey Regina what’s on your mind today hi Tom thank you for taking my call my pleasure um I just wanted to share some news um my husband is running for congress um against Pete Sessions oh for a seat in the house and uh we’re

Just now getting started we he’s on the ballot and we still have a long way to go and a lot to learn um he’s a a physician a pediatrician so not a politician so um it’s all new to us as far as that side um I’ve been watching

Your program for years and um became interested in politics um I guess it was about about 2017 2018 uh with Bernie cuz I just love Bernie Sanders and that’s how it all started and then with the pandemic and everything I was home for two years watching you and other news

Sources and um my husband had to listen to me every day about you know what’s going on in the world with politics and he made a decision that he was going to take this on so it’s exciting and little scary the same time so give us all the

Information that we would need to plug him and by the way tweet any kind of official campaign stuff at me include Tom _ Harman and I’ll retweet it so tell us about how to how to find him thank you that’s awesome yeah you’re the my first Contact and uh we got our first

Donation yesterday in the mail on that was like we were ready to go out and celebrate it was so exciting because we haven’t like he we don’t have cards yet and you know lot a lot involved does he have site we’re working on the website it’s not up and running yet but that’s

Crucial we had to deal with the bank stuff and we’re working on the treasure so that we can you know have all that straight and official so that all minute you have a website give us a shout okay um yes absolutely um we will and um

That’s something that we need to get up and running soon because that that’s important but I really do appreciate you taking my call and uh you know I I am just trying to get the word out so um well I think it’s a marvelous thing thing I would like to say about the

Doctor that called earlier um I came down with covid for the first time I’m almost 60 years old I have some some health issues with my kidneys and we went on a trip to Washington DC to a medical meeting it was kind of ironic because Dr FY was there I didn’t meet

Him or anything but he was there at this meeting receiving an award from the Pediatric Association but um I caught Co and RSV I had both and I like wiped out November W I was sick entire November and I’m still I’m I’m much better but I

Still get tired easy and um so I just wanted to to say that um that he was he’s right on point because I thought I was going to die and um I haven’t been vaccinated I guess it was I’ve had three of the shots but were making me so sick

Like I was having such a bad reaction to them that I slowed down a little bit but I think that I need to go ahead and it was interesting what he was saying about you know having it before September a little bit different this newest yeah

The newest vaccine is is going to be the most effective against the variants yeah Regina we’re going to we’re going to be taking some time off until the 2nd or 2nd of January I think um but right after the first of the year when you get your husband’s website up give us a

Shout I’ll put you on the air we’ll plug so much Tom okay thanks a lot Regina and give our best to your husband too good luck thank you it’s 49 minutes past the hour we’ll be back with more of your calls in 60 seconds stay with Us help support progressive radio if you’re listening to us on a commercial station call their advertisers and let them know you’re listening if you’re listening to us on Pacifica or one of our many nonprofit stations please support them when they do their fundraising drives thanks for supporting

Progressive Talk Radio and tag your it the magga Republicans have a plan for America it involves something called fascism it’s a three-step plan actually to take over America and turn us into a fascist state they’re following the example of Vladimir Putin in Russia and Victor Orban in Hungary orbon who is

Held up by conservatives as the example of how a country should be run you know he came to Texas to give a speech to CPAC and got a standing ovation so the three steps number one take over the Electoral systems and basically rig them along with massive gerrymandering number

Two build a fascist Base by mobilizing hate against minorities gender minorities racial minorities religious minorities while merging with one of the large factions of a church um and the the billionaires in the country and number three seize control of state power and turn the criminal justice system against your enemies there’s an

Opad about the whole thing over at Hartman report.com it’s titled revealed the maggot Republicans three-step plan for classic fascism check it Out welcome back picking up your calls here at Charles in Miami hey Charles what’s up hey how you doing good good to hear from you Charles okay um oh good to hear from you too and you know about this um war in the middle class for like what you said 60 years of

Republicans have been holding this and um I just wanted to add an addendum to to your to your column I just wanted to say that hey um I I think all of this is direct result as well or you can add it in the Civil Rights um the

Signing of the Civil Rights bill and I think what they they’ve always done is is try to not make it as normal for people as as it was normal for you as far as your dad being in the Union right you know going to good schools being able to afford healthare

Being able you know just um being able to go on vacation like you said like you know when he could every summer or when he whenever you guys did yeah being able to plan for college and I think also because what it does it also puts a damp on anyone

Deciding to vote Democrats because you know they’re always going to point that well these Democratic policies do not work and look how they’re destroying the country yeah yeah the Republican Poli and um right and as far as what you said yesterday I I I don’t think that we

Should acquest to to um to the Stu that they’re pulling right now as far as um yeah because I heard over the weekend you had a republican saying that well we you know we can’t just sign anything right now it’s more comprehensive now think about it for years they have been

On Fox News up and down the Airways day and night claiming that the board is you know um unsecure and only they can fix it well if I was Biden I just simply put it out there I’m giving them 48 hours you have a plan let us know what your

Plan is in detail and I bet you we’ll we’ll pull a stun out you know and one last thing you said to Dean last night can a minority party which will never get 50% overcome the majority and seize power because they know how to gain the

System and I would say yes and I would say it happened in 2000 with um Fox News yeah in 2016 as well so I mean I think the first you know don’t get mad but the corporate structure infrastructure of this um Republican corporate media it is what is destroying

This company this country it is what separating fact from fiction and what is also propagandizing these young people and and walking away from the Democratic party and walking away from our Democratic Leadership now I’m just going to put Ukraine up there first and last Ukraine the difference between us and

Ukraine I mean and the Soviet Union is basically you know they’re a democratic um country they’re a NATO country and of course every single world war that has started can you tell tell me what continent he started on yeah Europe yeah there you go okay thank you

Okay I got it nice talking to you Tom you have a beautiful thank you Charles happy holidays to you you and yours Cheryl in makao Hawaii hey Cheryl what’s up hey Tom uh I just wanted to thank you for the um monologue you did at the

Beginning of the show on the the history of the GOP and Reagan and all of that I think that’s really important for us to remember and we forget a lot of these things but for me there’s another um pivotal piece to it all and that is one

Day I remember in the the runup to the 2016 election when M MSNBC held a shot of an empty Podium waiting for Trump while on the same day that that Bernie was having thousands of people attend his rallies that was also in the news it got maybe a minute of coverage yep

And um MSNBC didn’t pay any attention to Bernie no but from that time on Trump began parting Bernie exactly I mean that’s why you were totally correct when you said that he ran to the left of Hillary because he was just like paring Bernie to the ma oh he was he he knew

What people want you know he he’s good salesman yep and I don’t think we would be where we are without that and so I will always believe that remember there were all those people who wanted change and they wanted to give a chance to an outsider and there was a considerable

Amount I forget what it was but I think it was enough to turn the election at that point yeah and you know and elect or get Trump appointed by the Electoral College yeah there you go Cheryl I’m sorry I’m out of time I got to run but

Thank you for the call and and thank you for your kind words about my opening rant and thank you so much for being with us today don’t forget democracy is is not a spectator sport it requires all of us all the time so get out there get

Active tag you’re it have a great afternoon be good be good to yourself and the people around you and please stay safe these holidays wear your masks avoid public places if you possibly can let’s all try to make it through you know well and intact have a great One you’ve been listening to Tom Hartman for audio and video archives visit tomh harman.com the past year proves in addition to bringing you the Tom Hartman program here on Free Speech TV and video media online we also have a whole set of ways you can interact with us and tools you

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