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Welcome to the old-fashioned Masonic podcast where we talk all things Freemasons while drinking an old-fashioned I’m Brian and I’m Russ and I’m Tracy Tracy’s back you saw him on a previous episode uh past Grand Master of Kansas Uh current Grand Secretary of Kansas so anybody’s been a secretary of
The lodge with the Grand Lodge love you know he’s busy so um he’s actually in town so we wanted to suck him in for a podcast and when we get one we’d like to get two and this topic today is going to be about Masonic investigations what does that mean right
So we’re going to kind of give you some topics that we’re going to talk about and kind of dig in just a little bit deeper so on our agenda we’re going to talk about the ask we’re going to talk about in the discussion after that the petition the initial background check
Receiving the petition the investigative committee the report committee and then the vote all of that really happens when somebody is seeking out masonry Fair did I miss something in there is that a good high level I think that’s good good bullet points all right so let’s go into the ask so
Um most watchful on your podcast you talk about being in a parking lot it’s like what do I have to do to join right and then you said within a couple of seconds I had a petition so that’s the number one thing fair is the ask yeah
Absolutely and uh you have to come of your own free will and Accord you can’t be coerced to become a member otherwise it doesn’t mean as much to you when you do that we agree so let’s ask this question we agree on the coercion
Would it be wrong so Russ and I we meet with some guys once a week and we go we go hang out and a couple of guys there and they’re always great guys but yeah I got these guys ever gonna ask about masonry if we would say hey Jim
You know we’re Mason’s right you like hanging out we’ve got a lot of other cool Brothers if you ever had any interest in that that’s not coercion right nope would somewhat some would say that’s recruiting which to me yeah I could maybe debate that one way or the other
But that’s not really a problem because some people will say well I’ve wondered if when you’re going to ask me I would love to learn more and that doesn’t make them like well they should ask about if they really want to be because some people like I don’t even know how to ask
Or can I ask it if I ask does that mean I’m precluded right right right yeah and that’s exactly right I mean how many undoubtedly that you if it’s somebody you’ve been sitting down talking with they know that you’re both Masons right and uh you know they don’t know they
Don’t understand the process we don’t talk about the process and uh so yeah I don’t think there’s any reason why you couldn’t say hey does this interest you yeah you know and let him say yes or no so we we kind of posed that question because some people
Say oh you can’t recruit well that’s not really recruiting to me recruiting is well there’s a lot I could argue the whole recruiting thing but the big thing is it’s not under the coercion grandson you’re going to join because Grandpa wants you to join go get your petition
Signed now that’s not really of your own free will in a court today it it’s not and but when we go out and do pen presentations we hear those stories all the time and um you know I’m not saying that’s uh I’m not saying that the person that
Joins any lesson Mason than anybody else is just uh probably not the way we want that to happen if you’re giving them a pin it worked yeah you know what that’s a bear that’s that’s fair it’s like hey if you’re issuing a check on the deal that means
That that loan process worked yeah yeah yeah I like it I like it so from the ask it goes into the discussion because like for me I knew no I didn’t think I knew any mason when I sought out masonry so I sent an email to the upper Pike
Secretary yo problem we’ll have somebody call you Roger Snelling calls me say great well let me stop by your office okay comes and talks to me ex you know what are you looking for he he was such a great sales person he qualified me it’s like well what do you why do you
Want to join so explain it’s like oh well this is where we think this would be yada so really sometimes the ad sometimes the discussion is before the ask right so but those can interchange right but you’ve got that there are also times where we’ve had folks seek out the
Fraternity when I was mastering say hey I have some interest do you know anybody no I don’t here’s what we’re going to do why don’t you come down we have dinner before Lodge we want you to come and have a dinner have dinner with us meet
Some of the fellas and let’s do that a few times and see if this is still for you thoughts about that you’ve heard this before I’m sure I think it’s a great idea because uh you you build that Association and and you can for yourself you can kind of determine well is this
Guy going to work good with Freemasonry or our lodge or does he should he go petition another Lodge or you get to know each other and then you can make some decisions moving forward there are actually Lodges at least a couple lodges here in Kansas that do that they they
Require their petitioners to um interact with the lodge for six months or more before they let them petition yeah they get to know him I don’t know about six months but I like that but you know everyone Lodge does something different um Russ Bob and I we were we did
Membership for Midian Shrine and most people now know this but we did we sent very few people to our own lodge because we would qualify it would be like hey so what do you look for oh man it’s like to be a master in a few years okay well that’s not gonna be
A pike you know because that’s pretty set but right and you know you you we need the Masons not to come in in two years dump out on us we if you’re really qualifying these Masons let’s put them where they every Lodge offers something different we teach the same thing right
But they offer a different experience I think the one thing that we miss sometimes is the financial piece okay and the financial piece is something that we need to talk about yeah because at times in men’s journey through life they can afford a lot sometimes they can’t afford much sure
And at no point in time should you be putting someone in a situation where they’re having to choose between eternity and their family at times and so not only is that a part of the investigation which is later yeah this is actually sort of The Upfront so I
Agree um what what’s your life what’s what’s going on and then tell us and normally you can sort of sniff that out pretty quick that hey um we believe that you are a good candidate for masonry but here are some concerns that let’s let’s let’s team up for
Success right not not get them in and then they just can’t be a part of it yeah your investigative committee really needs to be I don’t want to use the word train because I think it’s this whole orchestrated thing but really needs to be trained about what cues to pick up on
What to ask um Roger Stalin and myself and Donovan blanks we would go and we would investigate one of us would always take a role one would be just to sit back and observe you know not really listen to the words but watching how they’re
Saying it and so then we kind of tie our notes together or that would prompt the next question so so now we’ve got the ask and the discussion now after all that they’re going to submit the petition so we’re going to speak for Kansas because you know Tracy could
Probably talk in other states so in Kansas we have just a beautiful petition it needs some recommenders and it needs two signers um there’s also some questions about their belief and you know but above all else that petition that’s the time you need to be really honest things happen
In life because if you’re not going to start out honest you’re going to have real problems as we continue through the process anything on that petition that maybe we need to clarify tighten up um the only thing would be is that the petition for the Mysteries is in a paper
Form and uh you need to get that from your secretary um we we have them at the Grand Lodge office we send them to the secretaries we don’t charge for those uh because we want them in the original form we don’t want them copied off on a copier and
Handed to somebody in four different pages we want the original petition handed to them it’s a little psychology there right I’ve got to fill out this paper and it’s going to take me 20 30 minutes to fill it out right that’s the first test right fill it out or not you know
Um so yeah yeah and it’s a formal document it’s it’s a legal side well here’s the other thing I like about it when I came in I got copy of a copy of a copy and I looked at I’m like okay you know I like stuff a certain way Russ
Knows me I like stuff a particular way yes but to me that’s your first star that’s your brand it goes back to your brains so I’m getting a something’s been copied four times it may not be straight in the words yeah yeah so I at first I
Was like this slows down the process but the more I thought about it it was a really good move because that’s the first impression of it’s got the cool little look at the seal on there exactly and if you’ve presented a petition to someone also just sit down and go go
Through it with them they don’t need to fill it out in front of you just walk through so they if they’ve got a quick question they’re more apt to just ants oh okay clarify this okay and they’re more apt to actually get it filled out than to
Run into a problem and then they’ll throw it on their Dash and exactly forget about it yep the other thing in Kansas that we ask for so when you go to submit that petition to your um to the person that’s going to turn it into the secretary forget the monies
Every Lodge has something that they require a little bit different some it’s all or portion or whatnot but in Kansas the time that you’re filling out your background or your petition you will submit a background check all electronic 20 25 bucks whatever it is now and you’ll get it back
We asked for it at least there are large to be put in a sealed envelope separate from the petition but also when an envelope turned in the second our secretary opens it up and looks at basically verifies it your background’s not floating around the lodge it’s
Basically to prove what you say is that fair are we handle it the right way exactly that’s exactly and that’s a fairly new the background checks maybe 2010 or 11 12. um started on April 1st 2012. okay I remember that and here’s the thing there was a big uproar Lodge
And one particular member and he’s they’re just gonna kill mainstream and I said hold on let’s walk through this here’s why it’s not going to kill masonry I just assumed when I came in they ran a background check right you would have made that assumption yeah
Right so the new guys coming in they don’t know any difference and if the extra 20 to Russ’s previous point oh that’s an extra 20 bucks masonry’s not for you yeah it is not for you if if 20 one-time background check fee was too much we’re not you’re not ready for us yet
We’re here for you later but get it together and we’re here for you any candidate that I’m a part of bringing into the fraternity I also ask for all the money up front me too because that also is the test of whether or not they can actually
It’s time for them because if they go yeah oh yes or better yet when they go so that’s for a year we get that all the time hold on I thought that was for a month a month yeah oh yeah yeah we get that so we could we could go down the
Rabbit hole about what we feel about fees but I’ve had a couple of guys over the years I brought in there say I saw 150 bucks a month no no that’s a year oh that seems like it should be that a month yeah I have had people do their
Petition and write a separate check off to the side for their Perpetual I don’t push perpetuals anymore so to do the Perpetual once they went through because if you really thought that was the case sign up and do it yeah so yeah so now let’s go back so we’ve done the ask the
Question the petition’s in so folks if you’re not a Mason here’s how we handle the petition so it comes into the lodge to the secretary and at their next stated meeting the secretary will be asked a question hey do we have anything the secretary will say yeah I’ve got a
Petition or petitions they’ll read the petition out loud and Lodge okay so at that time everyone’s going to hear who’s coming in so I’ve got John he’s here he works here he lives here hey and he’s recommended by at that point the lodge will say okay and they’ll decide from there they’ll
Vote a lot of voting in masonry you know we we vote for if we don’t green beans or asparagus lots of voting right we vote to vote we vote to vote right so from there we we say okay yeah this makes sense it’s turned over to an investigative committee and lodges
Should have a dedicated investigative committee and that’s what they do so now it’s turned over to the investigative committee so sometime between the end of the lodge meeting and hopefully before the next meeting in two weeks maybe it’s a month later they are to do their investigation
So this is where I’m curious to see you’ve heard a lot over the years so here’s how Pike has done it when I was on investigative committee we’d have a three-person committee we would reach out to the candidate and say hey we’ve got your petition I’m
Brian what’s a good time for us to come stop by your home and they say okay it’s on this way money great I’m gonna have a couple people with me all right and I’d always get the question hey anything I should wear my always my answer is this I would wear
What you would want to wear the first time you meet somebody if you’re wanting to join an organization I just kind of leave it descriptively vague yes right I’ve never been embarrassed to be overdressed so we would go to the lot or go to their
Home and as much as we talked to the candidate we’ve talked to them as much we talked to us the significant others as well to kind of let them know what to expect and ask some questions no we’re not devil worshiping all you Illuminati followers that’s not us that’s not our thing
Um the other thing we really preach is don’t don’t go tell your spouse you’re going to a lodge meeting you’re out doing something stupid don’t don’t bring us in the middle of that kind of crap so but we have a real conversation what are you looking for
Um we know some lodges that they’ve actually uh looked in cupboards and and uh you know looked in the closet make sure the kids had clothes and shoes to me if something’s triggered me to do that I don’t even really don’t need to because right it’s in my mind that
Questions we’re not looking to see how clean you keep your house but if I’ve got some somebody coming over my house is clean so I mean but there’s a lot of things we’re looking at in this discussing you know we want to know we’re going over your petition again
With you too you know um how do you know this recommender you know there’s just some questions and conversations more often than not I’ve probably talked to the spouses maybe more than the guys because they don’t really have any questions there any experiences yeah so so there is also on
The Grand Lodge website and the secretary can get this I think it’s in the secretary’s portal uh there’s a list of I think 20 Questions suggested questions that you can ask the candidate uh Annie’s family and um they’re I think the terminology on that is uh you’re supposed to ascertain these questions
Um you know so you just uh and and it goes through the gamut right I mean you know it’s the cost going to be detrimental to the family you know uh you know and then there’s several questions so um you don’t have to ask them one to twenty yeah brother Masons don’t yeah
Some answers answer two or three questions yeah yeah be familiar with the questions take the questions with you if you want but don’t read them off one to two so sometimes on this podcast we’ll have a list of questions and Russ and I will have each other’s questions so we
Try not to step over each other as we’re going through and some questions answers the the next so it’s the same type of of things right and I’m not saying you have to go print that list off and take it with you if you’re comfortable asking tough questions uh then you’re on the
Right track right I mean I I personally feel that if you’re if you’re asking questions that you have no angst about yourself right then you’re not asking the right questions that’s fair questions that you ask them should you know uh make you a bit uncomfortable too right to pry into somebody’s life to
That level I agree I agree um your investigative committee folks that have interviewed people over the years like for employment you kind of want to look at them um just to make because they’re used to reading body language and doing different things you don’t necessarily want a bunch of Law Enforcement Officers
Or that could just intimidate a whole another but you need to find a good mixture of that the other thing in my opinion your investigative committee if if this was a perfect world we had 8 000 members I would have probably at least two different Generations yeah there
Very much I’d have a different face so to speak so somebody could see themselves in the lodge the same we talked about with line officers the same way you need to have a makeup of your you need to have a good match yeah and for anybody out there that’s not amazing
And you’re thinking about petitioning uh homemade cookies are a good thing oh yes to have yes that checks off yeah that checks right there it does those are questions like I think one three and five of us you know how good can you bake but yeah you’re right we can be
Bribed-ish yes right yeah so now the investigation’s gone on so the community the committee goes out and they come back to the lodge right so there’ll be a time in the lodge now after they investigating at the next meeting the master will say hey do we have any
Committed reports you have lots of committees and lodges so the finance committee May stand up and all the Committees May stand up so the investigative committee will stand up and they will give their report okay and it’s not like this detailed report it’s it’s usually a couple of words right
It’s either we’re all about the dude or we’re not about the dude something in in that effect but regardless of what they say a vote still happens right group so it can be I love Russ I hate Russ doesn’t matter what they say the vote still happens so
Here’s the one thing that we want everyone to know whether there’s 10 people in the lodge room or there’s a thousand people in the lodge room the votes are unanimous that’s just how it works we’re not going to go into a bunch of details but the other thing we do is
Um you know the votes the vote we’re done there’s no discussion it’s over I mean this is how it is we either we’re all about Russ or Trey shoe or we’re not about it and it’s not it’s not well who did that what we’re not about that life
Every Mason has a right to vote his conscience and that’s one of the coolest things about it um you know I know there’s been you know over the years well you know why do we do that if somebody’s got a problem they should be you know what that’s not what
We do because you know let me clarify yeah every Mason that’s a member of that Lodge that night there can be some guests there that would sure yeah yeah it’s only so don’t stop yeah and and every member of the lodge must vote yeah yeah see that’s the thing
We’ve had the debate I when I was Master at one time somebody said well I don’t want to vote you’re eligible to vote you must vote you must vote um I was challenged on that it’s like I was pretty shy I went back and to read the bylaws I thought man
I wonder if I did something wrong here uh because it was somebody who was pretty senior and been around but you know bylaws turn into urban myths and all the or Urban Miss turning the bylaws and you know customs and courtesies turn into bylaws and all of these things so
And by the way your bro man Grand Master uh Johnson yeah made a ruling on that last year the the the the the Integrity of the vote um there was a issue that came up and then and this his ruling came out and uh you’re right when the vote happens and
The master confirms it and he announces it to the lodge that’s it there’s no discussion done beyond beyond that it’s and the other thing is just cryptically if I were to bring my son in I don’t have a son so I can say it if I
Were to bring my son in went through all the process and everyone loved them and then all of a sudden the vote wasn’t unanimous if I would lose my mind and say you guys are idiots I got problems so there’s your cryptic you can guys all you Google guys out there that think
We’re crazy you go to look that up that’s out there but we take the vote very seriously because yeah everyone has a right to be heard whether it’s Petty or not it is what it is right so uh most forceful did we miss anything on Masonic investigations or is there a component
That we missed that we that the world needs to know um no I don’t think so I think we covered it you know everybody everybody that does join a lodge in Kansas now um whether they’re coming in through the mysteries of masonry or joining as a
Plural or not a plural member but a dual member from another jurisdiction uh they have to do a background check even if they’re a 50-year Mason from Missouri and he wants to join a lodge in Kansas and he’s never been a member in Kansas before he’s got to do a background check
Simply because we can’t treat him different than anybody else and there’s no reason why you shouldn’t yeah you know when when this was all coming about I remember the conversation with some of the wives and they said well we don’t see any problem with it you have to you
Have to be background checked to be a Sunday school teacher now so um you know yeah yeah I I agree and again the new people coming in they know no difference I would argue this if you went non-payment of dues which you should never do that never let
Somebody vote on you twice people don’t ever do that but it just go out on your demit pay it up demit do that but I think if you go out MPD and you’ve been out I’m gonna make the number up is this a bylaw proposal to us if you’ve been
Out five years MPD and you want to come back in you need a background because maybe that lasts five years you’ve been in a pokey I don’t know so or something so the uh so the the Grand Lodge bylaws you know are what they are the services there if
The lodge wants to take advantage of it so if the lodge thinks that that’s what the lodge wants to do your laws can be more restrictive than the Grand Lodge we can add to but can’t take away I have two oh we can redo some bylaw stuff at Albert Pike that’s interesting yeah
Yeah and and precisely for that reason right if you’re not you know if the core bunch of guys in your Lodge aren’t familiar with this guy that went suspended and he wants to come back in background checks the best way to go because that takes care of all the
Public record I would challenge that if someone went um suspended for non-paymented dues that when they come back in you just do it whether it was one day oh you’re saying run the back because you might no one in in our lodge we may not know that guy
Anyway that’s that’s a great point so no idea I was trying to be a little looser on it you’re going tighter yeah well and the other thing is you know how oh that’s crazy you know how you fix it pay your damn dues yeah control your own destiny
Yeah don’t risk don’t risk having to pass that Ballot Box again yeah well Russ and I talked about this a lot um we Russ and I have strong opinions about everything but we think we did good work for our lodge and good work for masonry it’s our
Perception right but I am not naive enough to think that if I went MPD never gonna happen boys but to come back in yeah there there’s no way I don’t get a cube you feel the same way with you you get a cube yeah so you think you’d get a cube maybe because
Somebody would have some sort of petty beef right I’m sure over the last 12 years I’ve probably upset somebody sure sure so more of the story I know you’ve pissed somebody off I did it I did it today I did it today and I know that so
More forceful Tracy thank you your time is valuable all right thanks for watching Sonic podcast what did you think of this episode to continue to promote Freemasonry hit that like button now don’t forget to smash that subscribe button and give us a comment the old-fashioned the Sonic podcast where real Masons talk Freemasonry Don’t forget to like subscribe and give us a comment
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