Corporate Cowboys Podcast – 9.24 Reddit: Got The Counter-Offer After Telling Them I’m Leaving…

Welcome back to another episode of the corporate Cowboys podcast my name is Alex as always your host for the next 30 minutes got ourselves a little uh open half an hour half hour for well for me to go over a question see if I can’t provide you with some General Corporate

Advice right so I’m gonna give you that legal disclaimer up front this time that is anything that I say anything that I relay to you anything that we post across our social media accounts and profiles none of that you should be able to take as legal advice none of it should be construed

As legal advice okay you can’t say Gangsta Rap Made Me Do It I say that a bunch because there was a song Back in the Day by uh Ice Cube actually Can’t say that oh [ __ ] corporate Cowboy said I gotta Gotta Stay strapped or get clapped so I know how to [ __ ] move not don’t don’t right we do not condone any wrongful activity we don’t promote any wrongdoing okay so with that said a little Proof of Life Today is Monday July 10 2023.

And today’s question I’m just going to dive right into it because this is a really peculiar really um really unique question I think all questions are unique right when they come from hypothetical clients because everybody’s case is unique I mean everybody is their own individual person granted you might have groups of people

In similar circumstances but even within those groups even within those groups you have a unique case with everyone I mean I I could extrapolate that further let’s put that into a a larger extreme even within a factory setting even within a nation within a nation of individuals who’ve been

Um conditioned to think one way everyone is still a unique product of experience right and they may have their individual Ambitions but they don’t all have the same Ambitions they don’t all have the same potential either right there are differences however subtle there are differences

So that’s what I try to get my clients to understand our clients understand the value that comes from within and that they try to Aspire to be consummate professionals no more no less but the best better than the best because I mean the goal is to be improving consistently

Each and every day with every passing moment because this corporate [ __ ] is fleeting this corporate [ __ ] is like love why because this corporate [ __ ] is like War business is war and so this corporate [ __ ] is fleeting you get caught lacking you settle you become complacent you

Don’t keep moving up the ladder you will get knocked the [ __ ] off every position is every is every position is entry level forever that’s been a consistent theme of this podcast and one that I try to get the listeners to understand and come to terms with

The goal this podcast is not just to help me improve how I speak how I think how I organize my thoughts and speech to have you understand that you can work with corporate you just have to understand your Worth and be able to elevate your position to that of an entire

Corporations it’s not difficult a corporation is made up of of a select few at the top and then the masses are at the bottom the rank and file are towards the bottom the deeper you go the more people there are to work with now depending on how

You make your entrance depending on how you infiltrate corporate you could go through the top go through the bottom [ __ ] you could come in through the side knock off a middle manager I don’t mean knock off like get rid of I mean I mean flip a middle manager

Have have them working with you have them working with you and together you make moves when I say knock off I’m like I’m thinking you’re approaching corporate as a as a sentient organization I know a lot of folks say like oh they’re just legal persons they don’t have emotion you can deduce

What a corporation’s emotions are by the collective thoughts of those at the top and even then even then you can segment the feeling you can segment the sentiment between the c-suite and everybody else who works salary or hourly on wage yeah I’m giving you I’m giving you the uh I’m

Giving you premium I’m giving you premium content and I haven’t even started the question let’s read the question shall we this is coming from r slash career advice see how I’ll save the uh the higher level strategizing and planning for uh for actual paying clients they tend to give more context more

Nuance in their background so any suggestions that we might provide are going to be more accurate and actionable to some extent so this question is asking I got an offer got a counter offer sorry got a counter offer after announcing I am leaving huh got a counter offer after announcing

That I’m leaving so just based off of the title I can I can let you know what what inferences I’m making from that and if you find yourself in this position I mean you you want to know that that’s a flag what color you make of it red yellow green orange

Well that depends on again you as a professional the industry that you’re in the organization you’re in the colleagues the network around you and uh potential and opportunities that exist inside and outside for you to make your next move got a counter offer after announcing that I’m leaving so say it’s time to

Leave it’s time to terminate your employment after however long her relationship you’ve had working together with corporate it’s time it’s time to call it quits it’s time to split you’ve been applying you’ve been interviewing you know where you’re headed next right because you’ve applied you’ve interviewed and these managers

The hiring manager at the other firm have sent you an offer maybe it’s tentative maybe it’s conditional maybe it’s it’s uh um on the terms you’re actually looking for on acceptable terms that you are willing to jump ship for and upon learning this your employer the one you’re at now

You give them notice that you’re leaving that you got an offer somewhere else or just that you’re leaving right like you just get you just hand in your two weeks resignation and if they’re smart enough they can get to the end faster they can get to the point faster and realize

You might be going to the competition so they got a counter offer for you what do you do well I think I think it speaks to the respect you’re being given right because if they wanted to retain you if they wanted to keep you from leaving I feel that uh leadership

Could always do more to develop their professionals to develop the talent in-house so that it never gets stale and it never gets bored because the moment you’re done learning about your job and it just becomes routine it just becomes programmatic becomes monotonous is when you start looking outside now

It is important to realize that when a corporation says if it ain’t broke don’t fix it it’s because they’ve grown comfortable but they but they haven’t always been at that size they haven’t always had that status that position in their relevant Market or their industry where they could actually take the time and

Sit back and watch right they didn’t get there they didn’t grow there by not fixing what was broken so as a professional as a corporate Cowboy you have to come to terms with the realization that when these words leave their mouth they don’t realize they’ve grown old

It’s it’s like growing up and growing old you don’t realize you’ve outgrown your pants until they don’t fit you no more right pants that you might put away from one summer to the next you don’t realize that you’ve grown slower or grown fatter you don’t realize that that uh

That you’re getting old until someone points out you’ve got gray hair or that you’re balding so in a corporation they won’t realize that they’re getting eight alive until they have Barbarians at the gate just just preying on them they won’t realize it and they definitely won’t heat it

They won’t hear it they won’t listen to to the warnings coming from the internal and from the inside it’s rare it’s rare that they do when they should because the canaries in their coal mines are going to be within their own coal mine do you think they’re

Going to hear you think miners heard canaries and other coal mines not nah it’s got to be in the coal mine you’re in now that only makes sense Alex that makes too much sense what the [ __ ] so let me go ahead and start reading this off for you

Start reading the body and I’ll make some comments along the way and if you have any questions reserve them hold them because I’m not gonna [ __ ] answer them I mean you can you can write them down write them down and then answer them later ask yourself them later and answer them because this

Kind of intuitive knowledge comes from the inside when you learn and understand what you are dealing with and what you are dealing with is just a group of individuals of people who think they’re comfortable who think and might believe sincerely believe that they’re in a comfortable position until they meet

A corporate Cowboy who’s running and gunning so our hypothetical client here writes hello everyone I’ve been working as a scientist in a company for over a year now and I have had very little opportunity to actually engage in scientific work damn that sounds sad just off top I mean they sound they

Sounded so proud in the beginning saying hey I’m a scientist and then within that same sentence they’re like I’ve done little I’ve engaged in little if any scientific work Ah that’s good that’s a soul killer that’s a [ __ ] soul killer no wonder you’re looking for outside work

When I actually sorry when I initially in when I initially joined there was an understanding that I would be involved in research participate in scientific projects leading to Publications and attend conferences ooh they were promised they were promised the career in science is what it sounds like which is reasonable right

So if they signed on to uh to participate in in conducting research and other projects that they could go on to publish and attend conferences where as a scientist myself I’m a social researcher I mean come on hold your horses I’m not I’m not combining uh chemicals and making Solutions and

Precipitates and colloidal no I’m not doing any of that I’m I’m a social researcher at heart you might be able to tell because I like talking I enjoy thinking about The Human Condition Within the context of corporate right so knowing that this scientist which if you

Really think about it is an art knowing that this artist is stuck within the machine that is Corporate yeah no it does it does tug at hard strings just a little bit just a little bit especially when they’re not being utilized if that’s what they want right they they voluntarily submitted and

Signed on the line to become a soldier in somebody’s corporate War and they’re not being utilized to their full potential I mean not only is the corporation in the wrong but this scientist is downtrodden because they’re it’s like it’s like having a safe Queen it’s like buying a gun right it’s like buying

Dude what’s it got um buying a a cult Delta Elite 10 millimeter stainless polished mirror polished stainless [ __ ] it throw Abalone grips on there because you’re stunned you’re flexing and you never use it you never fire it you when you only view it it’s like it’s only it only exists in your

Mind it doesn’t even exist in your hands like you’re not actually putting it to work in this corporate War you’re not you’re not licking shots at anybody the the the the tool itself doesn’t get to live out its intended purpose right so the scientist I completely resonate with so they write however

None of this none of this has materialized during the past 18 months damn 18 months is a minute 18 months I mean I think at six months because you could put like three months say okay I get it and this is like a probationary period I’m learning the ropes to this

Whole organizational culture right I’m learning the ins and the outs the the processes the policies the procedures that go into making this whole thing operate that goes into making this whole organization run right at six months I would begin to question yo when is the research going to come

Down one of the conferences is going to be up for grabs when when when will we work on these Publications that are meant to be sent off and reviewed right at a year at a year I’m I mean I’m spitting out applications and taking interviews regardless at a year it’s

Very few very few few times very rare that I would recommend uh clients and especially hypothetical clients if you’re listening it’s very few it’s very rare that I would recommend not applying and taking interviews unless you’ve signed a contract unless you’ve signed an agreement that you were

Bound for a term of years say two years or three years or five years I mean I’ve I’ve heard of it but if you’re not bound by one of those agreements you have to you have to keep stirring the pot you have to keep seeing what’s out there what’s outside I mean unless

Unless you are a professional unless you are a not a savant you don’t have to be a savant for this [ __ ] but unless you are a corporate Cowboy unless you understand the workings the inner workings of corporate you could apply an interview for positions inside but all the while you’ve got to be

Developing and cultivating and nurturing a network of colleagues on the inside so that when it’s time to make a move if it is to pitch an initiative then you have some support then you have some access to resources so it doesn’t sound like it’s just coming out of the blue you’ve got to

Plant the seeds early really you should be planting those seeds from day one even while you’re in your probationary period you’re learning the ins and the outs of corporate you are assessing its strengths and its weaknesses and and between those two is well you is where you will realize opportunities that exist

Opportunities for what opportunities for your growth for your professional growth now they should they should in theory in theory they should coincide with the growth of the organization but I mean you tell me you tell me how many times you’ve heard a supervisor or an executive say Alex go back to [ __ ]

Work man we don’t we don’t pay you to think we don’t pay you to solve problems that we don’t think exist right if it ain’t broke don’t fix it tell me how many times you’ve heard that and I’ll show you how to get through it not get around it

How to get through it and that requires a little more logic attacks well well they’re right they’re right I repeatedly I have repeatedly informed my superiors about the need for a project that would motivate me and allow me to attend conferences but their responses have always been along the lines of we

Will check or we will arrange it I don’t know man I don’t know I I feel like when you’re when you’re working on science especially because a lot of this [ __ ] a lot of the [ __ ] comes from Grants comes from comes from Grant they could be

Private they could be public but um when when this [ __ ] comes from when it’s when it’s someone else’s money people folks um and it’s not it’s not people it’s these [ __ ] and titles who are entitled it’s it’s people who wear titles that’s what I’m trying to

Get at it’s like they they become less than human they also become legal persons right so they’ll do what they have to to get the grant and then and then they’ll just maintain then they’ll just sustain themselves but if their position is too cushy they’re not going to go out of their way

To to work they’re not going to go out of their way to to expend effort yeah I mean they might expend money and salaries and and fringe benefits and expense accounts but really all they’re doing is just Treading Water they’re not swimming anywhere they’re just staying put they’re just staying

Put and as far as I know every industry just about just about every industry is red ocean right you sit around a little too long and those sharks will come up out of the water and show you why if you haven’t published anything in 18 months you become irrelevant

Right unless the specific research you are working on is something blue ocean right something nobody has ever seen before which I mean if that is the case it doesn’t sound like you’ve cultivated enough confidence you’ve doesn’t sound like you’ve cultivated enough trust credibility Rapport repertoire for the higher reps

To let you win on this top secret research project so they keep deflecting with oh we’ll see oh we’ll arrange it ha but that might not be the case you see I’m giving the corporation I’m giving corporate the benefit of the doubt that there might be a project that you

Just haven’t been assigned to because you’re still a newbie but 18 months no I that’s completely understandable why you want to leave I I get it absolutely I get it so the next paragraph here says consequently I have made the decision to return to Academia as I believe my true passion

Lies there no I think I think they just got hurt I think they just got hurt going into corporate they realized how slow corporate is I mean Academia is just another form it’s just another formal organization it’s just another form of corporate it’s got a lot of bureaucracy and red tape

And you’ve also got political correctness too so your research takes a wrong turn and it doesn’t have to be unethical your research takes the wrong turn right and your research goes against whatever narrative or agenda you can say goodbye to your [ __ ] research because it’s not needed to them so you

Know there’s there’s always options there’s there’s options for scientists for Scholars for academics who want to pursue their passions and do not want to be constrained and bound by an institution by policies and procedures again it doesn’t mean that your research has to be unethical like you have to be

Experimenting on humans for it to get shut down not you just have to ask the wrong question and I had that happen to me way back way back when I lived in uh in uh I lived in Sacramento California for a while I stayed out in Sacramento and I attended UC Davis

Believe it or not and while I was there I took a criminology class and in that class we were tasked with a research project right so this isn’t like I’m doing like some post-grad or doctorate or post doc not it’s just a research project and we were we already

Had limits to where where we could search what we could look at right so we had to use the uh Uniform Crime Report the UCR that came that comes from the FBI yes yes I already know crime statistics are already super controversial because of racist

Ethnicity all that BS right I get it I get it but I wasn’t going after that so I was going I was going because uh at the time maybe I’m misremembering now but I was going to ask and answer like I was going to hypothesize and then do the research

And come up with conclusions as to why why is it that cities and states with the toughest uh firearm regulations have high amounts of crime right and then I was going to correlate that with where the largest Financial districts are right we’re the largest financial

Districts are and then I was going to do a little bit more historical uh not an expose but I was going to do a little more historical research as to why Firearms laws came into existence and it doesn’t have to do with crime right so so I was I was already

Forming and honing my research to give me the answer I was looking for but one that could be substantiated one that could absolutely be substantiated was reasonable was logical with sound right so folks call this uh confirmation bias right but I call it having an idea I I call it

I call it having not not having a a precon is it a preconception or a preconceived idea yeah I guess it’s a preconceived idea and then I’m doing grounded research I’m not just finding uh I’m not just finding a research or a publication that matches my opinion I’m going out there doing the

Research and confirming my hypothesis right so my hypothesis was that firearm laws came into existence to prevent retribution to prevent retaliation right and I was gonna do this this this whole this large this whole thing where I was even going to bring in the this occurrence when like when uh

Farmers would go bankrupt because they were getting [ __ ] by egregious loans through banks where uh when their Farms were foreclosed on and when they were auctioned off the uh the original owners the farmers were allowed to bid and that and nobody else was because the communities would come together right and they would

They would uh they would lay retribution on anybody who tried to drive up the price or they would lay retribution on anyone from the bank who came through trying to collect on this foreclosure why because the farmer who was not as informed as as say the broker or the banker as to

Market conditions right if if they were put in a position to sign for loans at at an at an abysmal userist rate right then a lot of these Family Farms would fold up and come in under their control of the banks and when that happened uh when they were

Foreclosed on and they went to auction whoever whoever tried to drive up the price they got a [ __ ] beat down they I mean on the verge I would say it happened I would say it did happen but on the verge of getting tarred and feathered got their asses handed to him and sent

Off on their way out of town so it’s my belief that along those lines Firearms laws came into existence which is why when you entered a Township like back in like the old west they’d say you have to deposit your firearms and pick them up on the way out because that

Township was owned by a specific family or a specific bank or a specific Society right where they didn’t want people armed I mean you could be armed with knowledge or something similar that’s what I that’s what we promote essentially and that’s what I’ve been advocating through

The course of this podcast is that you can arm yourself with knowledge or something similar and keep something else as a last resort but as far as uh just jumping the gun and um using the last resort first I mean that might not be the smartest because you

Muddy up the waters more than you clarify them by doing that I mean you want the water to be as still and crystal clear as possible do you not and so by getting down to the root of this social issue that is firearm regulation my professor steered me away from it

Though they will steer your research for you they will tell you where to direct your research when I when I told them my intentions um they had suggested I do something different and I said well but I’ve got all the evidence I’ve got all the evidence here with the UCR I mean it

Goes back in time it goes back in time and then I could just cross-reference that with information that’s generally available online as far as banking institutions as far as the treasury as far as the FED as far as all that I could you know I could I could put those Ley lines down

And build a foundation for This research and they did not take kindly to that because a lot of these cities are I mean again this is California UC Davis a very liberal very liberal uh School liberal arts school yes one of the top division one research universities in

The country if not the world but still very liberal and when I when my research would be when my research would essentially debunk Firearms regulations they did not take kindly to that so they felt that they needed to draw my attention away from it so I ended up

Doing some some dumb [ __ ] that was still I guess low-key based but nowhere near what I had envisioned early on what a tangent man what a tangent but still you want to return the Academia caveat mtor because you’re going to take on more loans to do research that you

May not even want to do right you may take on more loans to do someone else’s research that’s only going to get peer-reviewed and circle jerked by individuals who may not even agree or align or like you as a person because your research informs some type of political view right and they’ll they’ll

Make it up I mean you think you’re dealing with a board with a review board but again a board is composed of people and if you take the average perspective you take the average opinion or the average intelligence if you take the average yeah I’m going to say

Intelligence because at this point we’re dealing with the group intelligence you take the average intelligence of the board you will get you will get the board’s personality right and and they cease certainly they cease being just a legal person just the figments of your imagination you can

Treat the board as if it were as if it were a person right that’s how you deal with corporates and not just end up working for it trying to appease and appeal to the board please let me do this I didn’t even [ __ ] wait I didn’t wait for that after after

Leaving school I did my own research I informed my own opinions my own perspectives I met people colleagues professionals Associates along the way who think who think not like me right oh think that’s that’s all I was getting at because there’s some [ __ ] who don’t think if your research is if your

Research has the potential to sway one way they don’t think they just they just eliminate they just they’re drones they’re pit bulls at that point all right so the next paragraph here before I get carried away they say or they continue they write as as I believe

My true passion lies there I have informed my company that I am leaving to pursue an academic position interestingly they have suddenly started negotiating with me opening their computers and asking which conference I would like to attend they have assured me that they can send me to any conference possibly in the

Near future possibly dog dog what the [ __ ] nah I would I would bounce I would bounce I mean Academia might not be it but if you want to be a scientist I suggest you apply an interview for position for science scientific scientist positions scientists positions and other organizations that will give you access

That will give you the resource that will give you the support off the bat so that you’re not having to keep up with them and follow up with them constantly right again this is this is more higher level this is more higher level because you also have to understand that

This is speaking as a social researcher a lot of these individuals when they when they are High when they are high in knowledge and and intellect they’re not they’re not super competent as far as sociability and networking right so gotta take that into account if you’re

On the spectrum that is a little more on the uh what’s the term what’s the term I’m looking for uh functionally impaired right if it impairs your function to an extent that you can’t communicate effectively you’ve got to come to terms with that and you can find help you can seek help

And find help and for that you might need a representative for that you might need to engage a professional consultant maybe an advocate for you if you want to become a scientist of renowned of of notoriety right you want to hold yourself out as one of these that are in the mainstream

Right now you don’t have to start and build Pebble by Pebble uh working for somebody else always you can work for yourself but you need to do it efficaciously that’s efficiently as effectively right and that’s going to take some time but it sounds like you’re in a job now you

Don’t want to leave it without another job lined up and returning to Academia is just returning you into the pool of candidates and Academia is very red ocean in some aspects in a very blue ocean only when they want it to be because again we’re talking bureaucracy we’re talking red tape so

What you want to do does not align they will tell you that oh no this is not this is red ocean we’ve got no chance a but if it’s something politically correct that aligns with their agenda and propaganda that pushes the bounds of normality and [ __ ] social norms and [ __ ] like that

Yeah no I’m sure they’ll let you I’ll I’m sure they’ll let you have it because they’re after that that ESG score too right they want Investments investors from large corporations for their grants too right they want the money coming down and as the money trickles down everybody gets a little bit more complacent

Everybody gets a little bit less effective everybody becomes slightly more incompetent over time and when it gets the point that it infuriates you enough you’ll realize that you’ve wasted your time there might be time to see your way out find us on Instagram that’s at corporate Cowboys with the Z

And um we’re on patreon too it’s the corporate Cowboys podcast a couple of donation links if you want to send something that will help with business expenses and legal fees by all means take care of yourself have a nice week

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