I do see that let’s go welcome to the first of a series of podcasts about American Polish connectivity structured around Dr Bogden cotus historical novel Cass War love and betrayal I’m Robert tery and I’ll be the moderator for a series of conversations with Dr Bogden kotnis
I enjoyed reading C and I noticed many parallels to Modern events so I contacted the author um we had several very interesting conversations about the book and about geopolitics and uh uh Bogden made me see world events uh from kind of a fresh perspective and I thought it would uh
Appeal to a wider a wider audience so we agreed to record this series of interviews Dr kotnis welcome thanks for sharing your insights into Global and polish history and geopolitics from a Polish perspective so tell us what C your book Cass is all about hi Bob and and and greetings to
All who decided to listen to us and and watch us uh I appreciate all your interest in in in Polish American Synergy through history uh my book C War love and betrayal is a story of kir palaski I called him Cass in the book to make things easier uh he was a
Trailblazer of the American Polish Brotherhood in arms and the book is a historical Adventure that shows the beginnings of American and polish ties which are so critical I think especially today given the Russian aggression in Ukraine that threatens the world peace we have enjoyed since the end of World War II
Actually bnan you mentioned the United States Poland Russia Ukraine and the world how do they all fit into your book and how important is it to consider these countries well I I I C the main protagonist confronted confronting Russians on the territory that including today’s Ukraine Po and Russian fought
Over this land for at least 800 years and uh Ukraine is a country only 30 years so all all three countries are intimately involved in Ukraine today and understanding their longterm complicated relationship should help us here in the United States um uh resolve the conflict so the the world peace is not
Compromised I I believe that we we should carefully look at all these essential countries to understand the context of current Russian aggression and remember like a lot of us I was shocked when Russia’s Little Green Man annexed uh eastern Ukraine in 2014 ripping apart European peace uh from from the beginning of the
Conflict the role of Poland was mostly uh downplayed while Germany and France LED an effort to appease the Russians sadly this approach didn’t give us much it actually encouraged Russia and they attacked Ukraine in 20122 even more bruty uh the shock that the 2022 attack caused shows us that our
Analysts must study the region more carefully and I believe that reading c will help us understand the the root causes of today’s war before we go on U viewers let me introduce our novelist uh Bogden lived about 30 years in the Poland and then 30 years in the United
States he holds a master’s degree from the yalon University in Krakow which is the oldest U polish University and a PhD from the State University of New York in Buffalo he speaks Polish English Russian Ukrainian Danish German and Spanish and listens to Global News and all of these
Languages so you can imagine what kind of insight this kind of in uh experience yields well Bob thanks for that generous intro and and you the viewers should know that Robert Terian Esquire is a retired US Government attorney who closely follows National and Global policy developments thank you
Bogden I see three main themes in your book uh correct me if I’m wrong but I see the novel’s plot uh a Polish perspective on the Russian threat then and I guess today and uh American Polish cooperation do you agree I I I think you got it you got it
Bob I had all these three things in mind uh when writing Cass let me tell you a recognized author James Conroy Martin noted in his Amazon review of C that it’s a hybrid it’s two books in one it’s a combination of an action and adventure novel and and the historical analysis of
Events well we’ll explore all of these themes in Greater detail throughout subsequent uh interviews but let’s start today with the the first which is the plot what what’s what’s Cass all about uh C the book tells tells a story of a patriotic Paul kmir pki fighting Russians who are attacking Poland then
To grab more land my novel starts with the uh manipulations by Russian Empress Katherine the Great to ensure that her Prodigy of Polish nobleman Stannis Augustus patski was elected polish King elected that’s a surprise is that what you said you elected the king yeah elected the king you know it’s
It’s a it’s it was a long long tradition po decided that when the king died without an heir they would elect a new king the first election happened in uh 1573 so so last year is actually was the 450th anniversary of the first election of the Polish King uh and the King also
Had to agree to a long list of privileges to uh the citizens reducing his absolute power you can imagine that all countries in Europe ruled by absolute monarchs hated this polish practice but interestingly the the concept of election ultimately found its way into the US Constitution and that of Poland
Which which which was the first European nation to draft a constitution about 5 years after the US that’s quite interesting but I did interrupt your response about the origins of your novel please continue no no problem Bob um so going back to Katherine Katherine’s manipulations weakened Poland so much
That Russia along with Prussia and Austria were able to eliminate Poland from the map for 123 years in a three-step partition in the first half of the book I tell a story of Poland’s resistance to this Russian incursion through the experiences of a Polish nobleman count Casimir Pulaski Caz hoping that readers would
Learn about Poland’s historical opposition to an Ever aggressive Russia Benton territorial expansion Russian actions in Ukraine today for me uh mirror what Katherine did in Poland over 250 years ago and that the second half of the book taking place in America shows how kaz’s experience and involvement helped the United States
Fight for a country against the British in both countryes C fought for National Independence against absolute Powers wow um so tell us a little bit more about how writing and historical novel in English about polish and American history some 250 years ago connects us to some of those other events you described
Today first I wanted to to show the beginning of this continuing Brotherhood and arms and shared political values between the United States and Poland uh and since we all like stories I decided to write an hopefully exciting story about one of of those military Heroes who spilled blood for Poland and
The United States found Casmir pki uh C was a a Coronel in the Polish war against Russia and then a general in George Washington’s Army playing a crucial role in the American war of independence he was you look at it he was the first American General to fight the Russians and then
Second uh I intended to excite curiosity about Poland and its relationship to America I think is missing now I’m convinced that Poland and the United States are siblings in democracy and absolutely vital to each other’s national interests mainly as they cooperate in opposing Russian aggression today and my novel describes events that
Set the stage for understanding the origins of the Polish American Bond and the mutually advantageous partnership that is is so critical to both uh and the world today I hope to resurrect American interest in Poland and and capture a desire in America to recognize and celebrate its common bonds with Poland more
Fully they seem like noble goals but uh can you tell us a little bit more about uh General Cass palaski who’s the protagonist in this novel sure uh in Poland cas is famous for engaging in in a fiveyear long War called the bar Confederacy against the Polish King and Russia the navoo follows
Him from the election of the last polish King King stanislav Augustus patosi or King Stan as I call him in the book uh so we are in Poland with Cass from 17763 to 1772 and he had to leave the country at the war’s end and then in
1777 has arrived in the United States and we stay with him until his heroic death in Savannah Georgia in 1779 so who was this King Stan exactly yeah King Stan well I I I I think he was a Russian puppet installed on the Polish Throne by Russia’s Katherine the Great you know
Much like the Russians recently installed president lukashenka in belus and then president yanukovich in Ukraine King Stan’s election and Reign were disastrous for Poland and eventually led to Poland’s partitions between Russia Russia and Austria in 1795 uh when when when Russians and King Stan forced cast to leave Poland he he
Traveled through Europe including turkey to raise funds and support for the bar conf federacy which was the name of Il legally registered opposition to King Stan and his catastrophic obes sence to Russia U Pez was introduced to Benjamin Franklin in France who at that time was looking for experienced officers willing
To fight for the United States so uh we go from Poland to the United States I I gather that meeting Franklin uh is the reason you ended up talking about CA in the C in the United States you’re right Bob uh Franklin recommended Cass to Congress and General
Washington consequently C sail to the colonies and met with Washington uh but had to wait for Congress to uh Grant him a commission in Washington’s Army first but even before he won the commission kez was able to convince Washington to change his plans for the brandine battle
And let kez lead a cavalry charge during that battle and this decision saved Washington’s Army as Su say from a total defeat during this largest battle of the Revolutionary War and expedited K’s commission to the rank of Brigadier General uh he then trained our caval according to the Polish standards he
Wrote the first US Cav manual and introduced uce a new military Doctrine which use caval as a strike force rather than merely a transport and reconnaissance outfit how the British were using it mostly and these accomplishments one car the name of father of the American
Caving well I bet most of uh my fellow Americans don’t know very much about that history fascinating but what I’m hearing you say is that the novel is telling how the emerging us and fading Poland um shared some of the same military Heroes and strategies for fighting for National
Independence and seems to reflect a pretty positive uh example of us uh General deferring to Unique polish experience and uh suggests that the two Nations joint commitment to the revolution AR idea of elected leadership or democracy uh is deep is is this where you’re headed exactly uh the Polish American
Bond began then and then has continued as the enduring fraternity of shared ideas tested on the battlefield uh and in this Bond continued in subsequent world events in which the US played a leading uh substantive role in supporting Poland so streng strengthening this Bond diplomatically and in the eyes of the
Public is strategically more important today I believe than ever since the 18th century so you’re trying to tell us something about how caz’s Adventures relate to the current time can you uh can you elaborate yeah you know those events afford me a platform explaining how the Russian motivation has remained the same
Over centuries I wanted to reveal Russia’s leading political motivation which uh has been to fight their way west until they control the whole of Europe and Russians have repeatedly stated this intention lately but the West has not responded in any meaningful way I believe uh and again understanding this historian unwavering
Russian expansionist commitment should help us formulate a winning strategy for stopping them in Ukraine today the strategy is missing in our debates uh believing that we can appease Russians with anything is a mistake they consider any appeasement a sign of weakness and it motivates them to continue their
Conquest so you’ve used the word appeasement a couple of times and what do you mean by it and you what are what are the Alternatives uh I I believe that appeasement is a way to avoid war by agreeing to aggressor demands and the calculation is kind of that these concessions will satisfy the
Aggressor and the war can be avoided but in the case of the war in Ukraine much like in the case of the war in Poland at the beginning of World War II this concessions were a mistake and and gave the aggressor time to get even stronger before the actual attack uh so
I believe it’s a it’s a bad strategy it sounds a little like you’re saying the Russian invasion in Ukraine is a Deja Vu experience that inspired your novel exactly Baba you can you can definitely say that uh for me the Russian approach to Europe has has remained the same since the 18th
Century uh when you look at it closely uh you would see that U well first of all my novel start cause starts starts in the final years of a process similar to hybrid Warfare today by which Russia ended the the longest lasting elective monarchy the uh the largest European nation the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth and I believe that understanding this process helps
Discover Russia’s undying commitment to his long-term strategy leading to today’s war in Ukraine and I let me just uh go back to history a little bit it was the Zar Peter the Great who formulated the Russian Manifest Destiny over 300 years ago and and Russia remains committed to
It until today through Wars revolutions and name changes of the country they keep on pushing West well that’s interesting Bogden but changing direction just a bit didn’t you actually experience Russian rule firsthand when you lived in Poland yeah but I certainly did and these were brutal times very depressing
And and then when writing the book my personal experience was constantly on my mind I witnessed the same P of threats corruption and lies that Cass suffered in the 18th century and that Russia employs Today in Ukraine uh our American and most western analysts I believe
Uh they are unwilling or unable to see this wellestablished pattern instead they focus primarily on current events uh imbued with this gullible attitude of regarding Russia almost as a meladjusted child who needs love and respect to make it change its ways consequently I I see that our experts are constantly surprised by
Facts underground in Russia and around and around them uh but Russians understand this weakness and use it to their advantage so so this narrow focus in the West’s is is from meia the West’s aulis heal in dealing with the Russians we should dig deeper into history to see
And deal with Russian core motivation effectively and understand their use of hybrid Warfare and not just pay attention to daily comments they make what do exactly do you mean by hybrid Warfare well hybrid Warfare is a chain of of manipulations propaganda and terrorist attacks that done under a threshold of
Classic kinetic Warfare and the the objective is to confuse the victims country so that it cannot clearly describe what’s going on and it’s very confused sometimes you don’t even know who’s blame to be blamed for the mess and Russians have been consistently using this this strategy uh and I look today Russia is
The largest and the most aggressive country in the world but they consistently oppose the world order the Free World has built since the end of World War II why would they do it I think it’s because this world order does not give Russians what they wanted when
They started World War II uh which was the The Total Domination of Europe and remember that our American soldiers rushed to Berlin in uh 1945 to defend the Germans uh to to to I’m sorry to defeat the Germans but uh but also to stop the Russians from advancing further
West at that time we americ Americans and our Western allies bought into the Russian propaganda that Russia was merely was merely defending itself when it invaded Poland in 1939 so still the Cold War confirmed that Russia did not share Western values and they just Bamboozled us into working with them well you
Startled me again you said that Russia started World War II that surely differs from what I learned uh guess this is a Polish perspective and it’s quite interesting you say a few words about it uh I understand what you’re saying Bob I read books I watch the news but here I’m
Just trying to be very open and and and clear because we’re missing that that point of view and I want to focus on Russians uh which were the Germans Partners in the crime of invading Poland in 39 uh and I see that the US under Plains this German Russian partnership in a
Misguided effort to smooth the edges of history and American mainstream narrative uh I see that the American public education mostly omits the Russian brutal attack on Poland about by skipping Russia’s role as a German partner in crime from our mainstream narrative we avoid admitting to appeasing Russians after World War II in
Part with polish Independence uh and and you know that Poland bashing is quite popular in the United States uh ER but Russians knew it was an alliance of convenience not based on any shared values or commitment to a particular World Order uh so they pushed as hard already in
1945 which then led to the Cold War uh but for domestic consumption in the United States it was never honestly explained and a lot of uh of their atrocities they committed never really saw light of the day for the for the aage American public so so we continue hearing mostly about
The Germans as the so aggressors but uh I think that to explain our post World War ii8 to Germany we started using the term Nazis when describing the Germans in World War II and this labeling or rebranding helped us the idea of to the Germans but today this
Ruse enables the Russian leaders to sell the idea that opposing Nazism and the West Justified their attack on Ukraine in 2022 it’s pretty bizarre uh they said that they were merely defending themselves against Ukrainian Nazis well that’s a lot but but you are saying that Russia and Germany both
Attacked Poland in 1939 absolutely absolutely Russians and Germans planned the September 1939 attack on Poland together and carefully coordinated the the assault and arguing who shot the first shot only helps Russians manipulate the facts and support their propaganda uh the truth is that the Russians annexed half of Poland then and
Killed quite a number of people uh whatever Poland lost to the Russians in 39 today belongs to Ukraine Belarus or Lithuania even before the start of World War II Russians killed hundreds of thousands of Poes in the Soviet Union in a genocidal campaign of ethnic cleansing just to prepare for the
War so I’m beginning to understand that polls have a pretty long time view of History uh that shapes the Polish perspective uh and you and you assert that that perspective is being overlooked yeah you know what I I Poland’s perspective is defined through over thousand year
History and it doesn’t hurt kind of like looking at the whole time during which Poland has persisted as a distinct culture and identity and this polish perspective is a Missing Link in in in the current analysis of the Russian invasion uh Russia actually entered the world stage as a dominant power after
Destroying Europe’s largest country the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth uh if you do the math uh the Commonwealth collapsed in 1795 so it shows that Poland had an 800 yearlong track record of success and then 123 years of lost Independence and then the enemies of Poland used that time when Poland was not around to
Create this grotesque image of Poland that we see most of the time today and Cass is my vehicle for drawing attention to to the past to understand the present so it shows a wellestablished Russian aggressive posture and practis and honors the Polish and American Patriots resolve to stand up to oppression
Um I see the Polish perspective to the Russian invasion of Ukraine as a proof that poch uh quickly recognized this war as a continuation of long-term Russian strategy aimed at Conquering the whole of Europe uh the Polish perspective is broader revealing similar patterns in Russian strategy and tactics over
Centuries and if our leaders and public better understood and carefully consider this polish perspective I think we would be United in formulating a winning strategy concerning Russia and the meaning of its invasion of Ukraine today so when did you start thinking about the importance of Polish American
Cooperation I I remember I had a Fullbright professor in Poland in the 70s Eugene mataf Professor Mata from Miami University Ohio and he traveled to Poland then and taught us American literature amid those gloomy Soviet times and I was impressed by how much he taught me and how much he
Trained to learn from us the students and he opened my mind to looking at events from multiple perspectives both in Poland in the United States and the world and then when when I eventually came to the United States I found that this polish perspective was mainly missing in the American debate and
Especially since the current Russian aggression in Ukraine neglecting polish view is a strategic oversight so I’ve just decided to open my mouth so if by incorporating the Polish perspective uh we would more clearly see through the Russian uh technique what what do you call that well they they use the word
Maskirovka I like to to uh to describe what’s going on there and uh incorporating the Polish perspective in our American analysis helps us more clearly see through Russian maskirovka the term they use for manipulation we’ve been living under a delusion created by our shortsightedness and Russian propaganda
That Russia was a peaceful nation and seeking equal partnership in Europe and would never attack Ukraine remember so how many times are we going to fall for the same line uh so I believe that recognizing the Vitality of the Polish perspective throughout history allows us to see how
The fate of Poland and the United States is connected through shared interest in democracy and the bond of Brotherhood in Arms from the first days of the Revolutionary War wow that’s so interesting we’ve got a lot to unpack but we’ve been going for about 30 minutes so I suspect that we
Ought to stop here thank you for this first interview and let’s pick this up next time and explore some of these uh many issues that you’ve mentioned um and you as the viewer if you want a broader context of current events than you can find in our mass
Media tune in to the the following interviews we’ll focus in more detail on the book explore the roots of Polish American cooperation and that polish perspective on the continuing thread thank you so much for uh for your interest in today’s broadcast we appreciate your comments and questions please do submit them we
Uh they’ll help us make these interviews more relevant to you uh please join us in the continuing dialogue as we reveal more insights into Cass and the global situation of affecting our way of life until next time yeah thanks Satan and uh hopefully see you again uh goodbye
source
