I’m really excited to welcome tonight Kylie Reid celebrating her new book Come and Get It Kylie Reid is the author of come and get it and such a fun age which was a New York Times bestseller and longlisted for the 2020 Booker prize her writing has been featured in The New
York Times The Wall Street Journal Playboy the guardian and others and Reed is currently an assistant professor at the at the University of Michigan in conversation with Reed tonight will be our very own marketing director here at politics and Pros Glory Edam glory is the author of two books well read black
Girl and on girlhood so please join me in welcoming to politics and Pros tonight Kylie Reed and Glory [Applause] Edam thank you very much for being here I’m going to start by reading um I’m just going to dive in this is in chapter two you guys can hear me right yeah okay
Great Millie pulled out a chair she began cutting out little cards that would go on the desk of each resident green slips of paper with the ra on duty phone number a crisis hotline the dorm address and so on Colette got to work on the resident door decks Millie wished
She’d observed Colette’s handwriting before she’d given up this task but when she looked up she was promptly relieved Colette had written the name Morgan on a pink in tube and her handwriting really was quite nice it was as if she were good at doing an accent the Letter’s
Curves were feminine and round Millie crossed her ankles so where were you last year Southgate it was such ass we hated it you and Ryland yeah I’m hoping this will be a lot more chill it will be students here already have friends or they’re on that housing scholarship or
They’re in a sority which sounds annoying but it’s not because they’re always is out Colette placed sunglasses reading Kira to the side holding the edges so the ink wouldn’t smudge I don’t mind that I’ll be good as long as there’s no freshman and if I don’t have to communicate with Joanie Millie
Laughed through her nose with Joanie and Southgate with you no thank God Colette said but we both worked at clubh house Fitness last summer and she was annoying for obvious reasons but then okay so when the minimum wage changed from 8 to 850 I made this presentation on how I
Should be getting 950 because I was killing it over there I got like four old people to start taking Pilates probably added years to their lives and they love me but whatever anyway the management ate it up and they were like ooh PowerPoint look at this initiative
And they gave me 9116 an hour which was dumb but I was like fine but then Joanie was like how is that fair I worked here longer than you blah blah blah and I was like K you worked here like four months longer but if you want to raise then go
Ask loser and she was like that’s not the point that’s disrespectful at this Colette looked up with a shark be in her hand she did that quick listless motion for someone jerking off and she was just a huge dick to me all summer she’d be like hey Colette the spa water needs ice
Like woo cool thanks for telling me Millie smiled that’s really dumb she said I know she’s such a pill she also got pissed because this one time I don’t even remember what I said but I had always assumed she was gay because like [ __ ] duh and I said something about
It and she was like what why would you say that and I was like whoa my bad but I’m gay so chill out but yeah when I saw her name on the dorm list I was like wow I’m going to jail this year but then I asked Amy who
I was paired with and then I was like okay fine she seems normal at this Millie experienced what she knew was a surplus of flattery and what felt like an adolescent Intrigue at learning that Colette was gay in order to not draw attention to Colette’s gayness something
She hadn’t considered one way or the other Millie picked up another sheet of cards I’ll stop there okay so with that I want to jump right in because I love how you do dialogue I love how you structure your sentences and you have encapsulated what it means
To be a college student I read in an article where you call this your dorm novel yes yeah ex tell us why you decid to set this on University of Arkansas’s campus and have it be college students well what was that about sure so I lived
In fville from for exactly one year from 2016 August 2017 my husband had a job opportunity and I had just been rejected from nine graduate schools and he was like do you want to come try again and I said sure and so I worked at a coffee
Shop and I wrote articles for a magazine there um and just lived in fville so I love the town and I love a college town and I think that there’s something really interesting about fville and that it’s in the South but a lot of people who I later interviewed about a lot of
Things for the novel would say to me oh F that’s not the South the south is like Clemson the south is Auburn fa is not the South that’s like Denver and I thought that that was a really interesting Dynamic to be geographically Southern but not philosophically in
Everyone’s eyes um I think a big state school that runs the town is really interesting as well but you’re right I do I am difficult and I call it a dorm novel I I love a a campus novel I love prep I love secret history I don’t know
If you consider the sellout a campus novel but maybe kind of yes yes but I do think that this is a novel that is not concerned with Academia at all this is not an IV League this is not students in classrooms there’s like half a page that
Happens in a classroom this is what happens when you are alone freaking out about who you are inside of your room yeah all of those things were coming into play well I throughout the whole novel I just felt all the anxiety of trying to learn how to adult and be
Present and there’s all these things that the characters are contending with it’s there’s race their sexuality um there’s just this pressure of performance how did you decide how to bring all these things together and make it cuz they seem to collaborate and come together so seamlessly but I mean
Clearly that’s not the case who was the first person that you created was it Millie was it Agatha how did it come to be I Millie and Agatha were kind of born from each other and so Millie is an RA she’s our protagonist she’s 24 and Agatha is a visiting uh assistant
Professor and I read a book called paying for the party how College maintains inequality it’s written by two sociologist Laura Hamilton and Elizabeth Armstrong one of whom goes to umu ofm and I haven’t met her yet so I need to do that um but they wrote this five year
Interview study where they interviewed young women in a Midwestern dorm about their socioecon ecomic background their finances their insecurities and they followed their Pathways and their opportunities and career choices and I was really moved by the book the information one of like who College like works for was really interesting for me
But also I just really loved the premise of really academic women interviewing young college women there’s a quote in the book where one of the girls says you guys haven’t been to my room why hasn’t anyone come talk to me yet and I thought that was so tender and and intimate and
I wanted to to have a strange relationship where an academic woman was was found in a dorm so they were kind of born from each other um but then that book really inspired Agatha but the one that really inspired Millie was this book called knocking The Hustle against
The neoliberal turn in Black politics written by Lester Spence it this is one of those books it’s really hard to say what it’s about because it covers Civil Rights era um inevitability politics hustle culture um but that’s where Millie was born out of Millie is a hustler and she believes working hard
Will always benefit her more than not working hard and and some things happen to shake up that that belief for her yeah that that theory yes well I it made me also think of such a fun age which I we read that in our book club and I
Absolutely loved it you always look at power dynamics and the relationships between a younger and a younger woman and an older woman a black woman and older white woman like you had like these power dynamics that are happening well how a I wanted I wanted you to address like would the situations would
Have would they be the same if the visiting Professor had been male cuz I kept thinking about that I’m like was act if I was a man would like this still be like happening and then what draws you to like explore these kind of power dynamics okay okay I’m going to answer
The first one okay okay listen I have a lot of patience for certain tropes the one that’s like someone was it was a bet to fall in love with someone and then they fall in love I’ll watch it every time like that’s fine I’m totally fine with that
But the one of like the older male teacher and the younger I’m a little I’m like a little tired I’m not saying it can’t be done well but I’m a little tired right now so I don’t know if if that would have been as interesting here
Um I think Millie is in a place where she sees someone sophisticated like AGA and she’s like oh I want to be you I want to like emulate you like everything you do like your clothes like everything you’re doing I want to buy those things
And so I think it’s a little bit U more intricate than just like like a teacher student relationship that we see so often and there you such a good second question I just the power D Dynamics in general because you I see the parallels from your first book to this book it’s
Just like how do you contend with trying to find your footing and like as you said Millie’s trying to be become Agatha but also there’s things in place that kind of resist that from happening just because of the you know of her background and where she is yes those
Things are part of the reason why I write I feel the class Dynamics between the two women will always separate them I think Millie is a really hard worker but if she works her bu off and does everything right where she is she’s still never going to like own an
Apartment in Chicago like Agatha is so I think that something that helps me Define the power dynamics is looking at the entire structure of the world that these characters are living in Millie is an RA I was an R for a year I’m sure there’s AR in here I look like
Responsible people in here yes okay so that’s a position for students who want housing and payment right I mean I’m really interested in jobs where you’re on all the time and when you’re an RA anyone can come up to you and be like I’m sad my roomate’s
Fighting with me and you have to like contend with that the fact that some students have to be in ra and some don’t I think that’s the real issue here that’s at play so then whatever happens between my characters it’s not IM material but it’s like well they no one
Should be in this position to begin with in the first place so then I can kind of let my characters behave a little badly within the circumstance yeah how did you decide to you know write the particular voices I really enjoyed Kennedy’s voice and she just always felt like anxiety
Driven and had all these like neuroses and it just it felt real and earlier you were mentioning the research where you like really pulling from interviews for I was like were you trying to really imitate the way people talk like even in the page read it feels like you’re
Listening to like a young person just have a conversation versus reading let’s just reading a novel you know a little bit of both so it kind of worked out really neatly those were the two books from my two other main characters and Kennedy was not going to be that big of
A main character and then I read a book called this is the last book I’ll site that’s way I read monoculture how one story is changing everything by FS Michaels and it’s a book that’s all about capitalism but she refers to it as the economic story and she talks about
How it infiltrates certain parts of our lives from our education family life our creativity and there’s this one section where she’s talking about like living in a class Society we look at each other and we say you are a rational human being and the decisions that you made
You made the best ones for you and the shirt you wore and the things you’re eating those are all the things that you know is best for you but it’s actually not so much like that and it’s more she complain Compares it to a really good Chinese food restaurant where there’s
Literally like 400 things on the menu and you’ve only ordered three or so but you’re like oh this is the best one but you don’t really know if that’s the thing that you like the most and that really inspired me with Kennedy and her voice and her being kind of crippled by
Choice I wanted to take the economic story and put it in the dorm and the currency became friends like how do I get friends and how do I meet people Kennedy when I started writing about the weird gross stuff she does in her room by herself that’s when I was like I
Think I want to spend more time oh yeah you guys will that Stu she is a transfer student she’s coming from University of Iowa she’s had something traumatic happen to her and she wants to start over completely um within this there’s three main characters Millie wants to save save save everything she makes
Agatha wants to splurge a little bit and Kennedy thinks that she does not have a relationship with money but she’s deeply connected to consumption and buying stuff and if she gets a little panicky she finds herself wanting to go purchase things that’s where Kennedy’s voice was
Coming from yeah yeah yeah and you feel it like it just it feels very intense so you brought up money why do you enjoy writing about money in this way are you trying to all the books that you cited are more um academic if you you know for
Lack of a better word like are you trying to make a statement about capitalism that is a great question and no no no um that’s really just not my bag like I I tell stories but I’m super inspired by the world that we live in I
Love like I love I don’t read a lot of Science Fiction but I love watching science fiction movies and I like the limitations that a world has like when’s the comic coming what do we have to eat I like to work with those like on a
Domestic level um the novels that I like to read do not leave you with one thesis or message um they just kind of haunt you throughout your day or I think like a weird portal forms when a novel Nails a gesture or a a moment of embarrassment
And you feel it and go oh I’ve done that I know that person that’s kind of of more of the goal of my work um that and what you’re saying about people talking I when when I can hear someone talking in a book that’s a huge goal for me so
That’s more important to me than to get into my beliefs on capitalism yeah can you talk more about your research process and the interviews and how you and how you selected the people to interview yeah I started after I read paying for the party I wanted to
Interview people and I I do not have any journalistic like background or anything but I just asked some of my old students if they would talk to me about money I paid them $15 for 45 minutes of their time I asked a few students who I could
Tell enjoyed my class and then one of them said oh my roommates and I are always talking about this and I was like oh they talk to me and they all talk to me I went in their apartment and they had this big sign on the wall that said
Let’s get weird I was like okay here we go um I really wanted to interview students from a bunch of different socioeconomic backgrounds and there were a lot of kind of similar incomes in my classes so I had to search a little bit so I had friends whose students were
Open to it I interviewed a young woman who worked parttime in a grocery store while she was still in school the young woman at the high ve Starbucks that I went to every day and who I would talk to we ended up talking and I put some
She said right into the book um so which what you put I so there’s there’s Kennedy comes from a really big family and they at Christmas go to a dollar store and while one kid sits in the car the other one go in the store and and
Shop for the kid for Christmas and then they all switch and that came from my Starbucks worker I said that is beautiful she was like oh it’s just silly and I was like No it’s it’s going in right in the book so and they were all very excited at the idea of like
Their lives being a line in the book so that made me excited too but after the students I kind of brought it out a little bit I interviewed um baton twirlers optometrist uh Missouri natives Arkansas natives as well just yeah about 30 to 40 interviews yeah oh wow was there
Anything that um from those interviews I know you said you mentioned you put that in the book but was there anything that really surprised you or like you took away that was like oh that you weren’t expecting yeah I think more than anything that people always ask me like
How do you get people to talk to you about money people love talking about money they love telling me that they shouldn’t but then they like talking about it um I learned that there’s a surgery like a major hip surgy surgery that a lot of baton tlers get because of
One move that they all they’re all doing I had no idea um there were moments that did really shock me there was a young woman who was in a sorority and I was asking her about recruitment process and I was asking her about the two black fraternities and sororities on campus
And I said okay are the black sororities like involved with this recruitment process in the same way and she said oh no it’s just like the normal ones and she caught herself and just the way that she kind of tried to cover you know what
I mean like and in that moment I need to be a good journalist and just let her do what she’s doing but there’s so much in that heavy lifting going on there and so those things would definitely surprise me there was another moment that’s in the first chapter where I was asking a
Young woman how her parents give her money I was really interested in like just the logistic like is it venmo is it check is it cash I wanted to know those things and she said I get like a practice paycheck from my dad’s dental office but obviously I don’t do anything
And I was like wait CU they told me about she was like yeah it’s like a practice pray paycheck and it’s like out of the dental office I was like I’m so sorry I feel like that’s fraud though like right like that’s that’s and she was like I don’t know
It’s like a practice paycheck and that went right into the novel yeah yeah yeah practice that’s hilarious that that one was real I okay back to the book so can you tell I also really love the title like my mind I’m like come and get it you know like can
Like I I had this kind of like Wheel of Fortune type thing in my mind like when I was when I immediately saw the title can you explain elaborate why you chose the title sure I don’t have a title whenever I start out but same was such a fun age I
Did not have a title till the end and then maybe in the last two years I wanted the title to be sooie as in woo Pig sooie the Arkansas chant so I was calling it suie everyone hated it everyone like my editor agent was like let’s keep going back to the drawing
Board and I was like nope it’s soe there was something so like violent and simple about sooie but then when we started saying the word to people they would say shoy zooie and like no one could get it and I was like okay maybe we do need to
Go back so then one day my agent and I were texting and I said I still love suie and she said okay but what does suie mean it’s like this aggressive here Pig come and get it right and I was like a first chapter that teaches a reader
How to read your novel um and then here I was wanting the first novel to say hey like you’re you’re listening here like you’re Eve dropping in this book um and that’s what everyone here is doing as well and this is like a book about
Gossip and and money here and so I also like a first chapter that kind of shows most of the characters and the layout so that was super important to me and I did that with such a fun age as well well and then I kind of pull back and dip
Into people’s quieter lives this one was different obviously because I have three characters um but this was also work I feel like such a fun age had these kind of big traditional set pieces of these like like Thanksgiving and grocery store and news thing this one maybe it’s
Because I was pregnant this one worked like contractions almost like ramping up um and things having like a lowl dread from from page one so I do plot things out a bit um and write what going where and who’s doing what I think where to deploy information about characters
Really changes a read so I definitely write things out but if things are going too according to plan that’s usually wrong yeah well I it’s really interesting that you said this like feeling of ease dropping because it does have that kind of alert where you’re like you’re in the scene but you’re kind
Of covering over it especially the scenes with Agatha too like I feel like there’s a lot of times where she’s making uh assumptions about her the subjects and you get really um do a great job with getting her interor dialogue and in my mind I felt like her
Character was being a little bit exploit she was exploiting them was that your intention or does that but maybe like I’m reading for my own bias right of course I mean talking doing Publications step and talking to journalist they’re like what is she doing because Agatha does make some journalistic like
Integrity mistakes here I love issues in novels that are like not misdemeanors but you’re like oh that’s wrong though right yeah like it’s like it’s like a fine line of like is this moral injury are we crossing over a line that is like very very thin yes that’s where I like
To live I feel like she’s in that area Agatha is listening to young people and using their words incorrectly in articles that she’s writing however Millie this young ra has made some new very cool friends and sometimes they say things and she repeats them as her own
Words this is a book about taking other people’s words and and the ethics around that a little bit yeah and so that brings me to another question about like CU that is actually happening in real time with social media and all these and II we’re having so many conversations
About like who owns the words or like do you know what it means like how does that come into play W with this book like what is the the ownership of language I mean I mean I know I’m getting all theoretical right here but that’s a great question though
Especially as we see all the time like authors getting in trouble for like taking other people’s stories whether it’s like a caption or reposting I’m thinking primarily about social media but it’s also H it’s such a huge conversation with AI because everyone’s like you know it’s pulling on to this I
Don’t even know how to explain Chad GDP but you know what I mean like it’s happening yeah and so but we’re but it’s also happening in conversations like you overhear something and then it’s a game of telephone right exactly exactly this is I I’m so in the middle of this though
Because as like when you’re starting out writing I actually think it’s a great practice to try and emulate the style of people that you like I think that’s a great thing that you can do because you’re going to bring all of yourself with it and so copying in that way I’m
Kind of okay with that I’m not okay with people exploiting other people’s stories um at all like everyone that I interviewed their identities are completely hidden and they were excited about being in the book it wasn’t like I’m taking their lives I think that there’s something wrong with that I
Don’t think that for the sake of art you should just exploit people at all um but yeah Agatha she’s lonely she’s just had a breakup and her journalistic Integrity get definitely gets questioned here um and I think that she feels protected by Arkansas I’m super interested when
People go to a different place and they’re like this place doesn’t count like back home counts but like this is like fine yeah that’s where she’s basically everyone who moves to New York yes exactly wait I really want to know were you in ra no I wasn’t but I was a
Um like what at Howard you I was an ambassador like so like a campus pal so when when freshman would come I would like welcome them this makes sense yes yeah yes I am a very enthusiastic individual yeah I did I did do that um and also there’s such there’s something
There’s another quote I’m going to read it out to you um the thing about a campus novel is that you’re watching drama play out in a strange Utopia and I love the description of college being like a strange Utopia I always have a theory that we’re always like playing
Out like different versions of high school like you are like lives you know you’re like in high school then you’re in college and you’re in corporate study like you’re just constantly playing out yours you know and so like this idea of strange Utopia what is it about our
College Years that feel so nostalgic and like almost just like it it doesn’t count almost like you anything you do on a campus doesn’t feel like real life even though it is okay I have a lot of thoughts on this okay college is a Utopia for a few
Reasons I’m in a okay I’m in a I’m currently my biggest interest is urban infrastructure and I’m in a very weird corner of YouTube right now that I cannot pull my way out of however I think that because college is like an island and a walkable community that you
Can get around and go grocery shopping go see your friend and then go play lacrosse like it feels like a fake Paradise when you’re in college it’s like the only time in your life maybe that you can have free time and shared like expensive like gyms and libraries
That someone’s grandma like gave money to or whatever and like everyone is living in the same little area and you like have this weird community and I think that that’s why College feels so special I do think on the other end that college like Mass our financial status a
Bit because we’re all using all of those things all of the time of course soon you realize like your roommate like has a lot of money or whatever but I do think that college is this very special um way of living that seems very separate from the way that we live most
The rest of our lives yeah it does feel like a safe bubble yeah like at at one point I was like apping to PHD programs I’m like do I just want to be back in college just be like safe you know but like it does feel safe though it’s
Strange like a weird but I I’m really excited the way you explored it and the fact that you focus on women because that is I feel like when we talk about money and the power and influence and impact of it the the idea of womenhood it just gets like disconnected you know
Like and I don’t know what are your theories on why that happens in real life and in this novel I think one of the reasons I’m drawn to writing about women mostly I I think I surround myself mostly with women maybe that’s why but with this novel I was really interested in
Consumption and buying things and I feel like women are pushed to buy more things in their lives from pressures to get married wear makeup when you have a baby like all of those things I feel like there’s more things that women are like oh should I buy that a little bit often
So I do think that this is a novel where I explore women trying to buy things from each other um whether it’s words or youth or beauty or other things and so I think that’s why I was drawn to writing about so many women here yeah I love
That I love that we are going to take questions in a second so if you have questions keep them percolating go have the mic up there um the other thing I really wanted to explore is how let me pull my my like a list actually maybe I yeah I know I gotta
Get if there was anything that was like left on The Cutting Room floor like you had mentioned like the ra scene that like you wrote for 80 pages and because there was there’s a scene after um Kennedy okay Kennedy was one of my favorite characters yeah yeah and and
Taylor too yes so I was there was scene after they were they’re having an interaction and I’m having in my mind I’m like okay are they friends because even though this they’re in this community they’re all connected I didn’t feel like there was actual friendship does that make sense yes like they’re
All close and they’re in same proximity they’re doing all these things together but they don’t seem like genuine friends and yes okay this is funny because it kind of goes along with your first question there’s always lines that come out to you when you’re starting to think
About a novel and some of them stick and some of them go away and the one line that came but then I had to cut was about Millie wondering were they really friends or did they just live in the same dorm and I think we’ve all had that
Experience of like oh this is like heartbreaking you know when you have a really good friend at work and you feel like close and let’s say one of you moves jobs or whatever and you get together again and you realize that without that tie there’s kind of nothing
There between you I think college is really right for that and so is a dorm as well so yeah that’s one thing that was left in The Cutting Room for and yeah friendship is friendships here they’re not super secure yeah but I also feel like in a dorm you’re figuring
Out who you are and making friends is so difficult as then also on the other side of that like you know it made me also think about just like the culture of like sororities and things like that where you can also make like lifelong friends too so but why was the choice to
Make Millie almost this um to make her her connection so fraught like they felt really fragile Millie is a person who is always working and her jobs are where she sleeps her like whole life is like work when she was like an inkeeper when she’s an RA and I think that she’s
Looking for really intimate relationships but always within the confines of work yeah and I think that because she’s such a hard worker and like when other people on the same values I think it’s difficult for her yeah a little bit yeah and that brings me to another question is like value
Systems so with Millie you described her and it’s very clear in the book that she is like hardworking she’s committed she wants to move like she’s looking for a for trajectory so she can be in a different status in life and have more power more influence so how compared to
Some of the other girls where their values seem to be um more conservative or more have like more of a foundation is Millie what is she supposed to represent in terms of upward Mobility that’s what I’m trying to get up Millie for me it always represented hustle and Millie almost forget sometimes that
Yes working hard is great I think it people should work hard I work hard that is great but I think that Millie within her hustle forgets that people are not not starting off in the same place with their hustle and sometimes just getting out of bed in the morning is a hustle
For a lot of people her as a worker I wanted to mess with those values that she has around work and how you get what you want some names of characters come to me really quickly Millie was not really quickly had all these other names and then I was flirting with Millie and
I looked it up that it meant worker and I was like okay that’s it oh wow that was a nice one yeah you did this is so random but you did ask about deleted scenes and I just remembered another one which maybe maybe is good maybe he’s not
There’s a character named Ryland um Ryland is very low income he’s from Louisiana he’s fun he loves abusing prescription drugs and there’s this one chapter where he’s going on and on about he’s very much on Aderall and he talks about Chick-fil-A for like half the chapter and my editor was like do we
Need a whole Chick-fil-A chapter and I was like yes we do and at the end of that chapter he was talking about something that I learned about in an interview this is wild called Covenant eyes has anyone never heard of this yes okay great Ryland was on something called Covenant eyes I had
This whole section he Ryland is gay and he his his family doesn’t know because they’re religious and his brother was like Hey man like what’s going on can I pray with you like what’s going on and he’s like I didn’t want to tell him I
Was gay so I was just like I’m addicted to porn I don’t know and his brother’s like okay we’re gonna work through this together like I got you and they download this software that exists called Covenant eyes where you have an account ility partner and if you look up
Naughty things on your computer the other person gets a report of everything you are looking up so Millie’s like asking him like but you’re gay like you don’t even like porn like and he’s like I know but I just like will Google like wet boobs once in
A while so it like comes up and then my brother is like hey man I saw you slipped up like can we pray together like you’re going to beat this like so I had this whole scene written out my editor was like no Covenant eyes will make it into
Something that I write I promise So yeah thank you for letting me share that with you I love all the pieces of random research and things that you come across that could like be on The Cutting Room floor or it could be in your book
Covenant I yes oh my gosh I love that loveon so much um oh gosh oh gosh okay let me like get back to my I know I I I threw us I’m sorry Covenant I just came back to me and I had to share it with
Somebody wa when it comes to the the aspect of the I want to get back to Agatha because I also think that you know we we addressed her her thin line of possibly exploiting some of the information and not being as like forthright when it comes to certain
Things in in the book what is okay what was your goal with having her be that a certain age too because I also thought that kind yeah because I was just like again this Dynamic of like the her being older and and um I was thinking about as we women
Get older like their space or status their beauty everything seems to kind of quote unquote diminish as you get older right and so I kept thinking when I was trying to visualize her and see like is this a a bre because she’s getting older and feeling like less prominent less
Important and trying to kind of grasp that was that was coming across but I didn’t know if I was misinterpreting no I don’t think you’re misinterpreting there’s a chapter by Agatha’s failed relationship that she’s kind of coming out of and she was with a woman who was six years younger than her
But not just any woman like a super hot dancer woman who’s like terrible with money and very youthful For Better or For Worse so I think Agatha comes off of that relationship saying one like you know what I can do whatever I want I can be fun and she’s kind of reaching for
These youthful things she kind of not fun she’s not fun I just want to make clear I love all of my characters and I love Agatha a lot she’s neurotic and like weird and so serious and like she’s the kind of person who like when a joke
Is funny she doesn’t laugh she’ll be like that is funny you know what I mean like that kind of and I I think that’s great yes exactly and so I think that her reaching for this Youth and like just because she’s interested in it she’s at this
Place where she’s like I could be interested in that maybe maybe that’s my my next book yeah yes um I think that’s where the youth is is coming for her but also she’s she’s 38 I think that I mean I’m 36 it’s a strange age and so she’s
Trying to have like a Resurgence of her career at the same time as well and all these things are coming into play yeah and 38 isn’t old I don’t want to make like it’s not old but compare to when you’re talking to someone who is 19 and
You’re a different season of your life like there is like a there is a stark contrast there and you can go down this like rabbit hole of comparisons of like if I had made this choice if I had done this relationship things would be different yeah you know so that that was
Like what I was like deing as I was like reading her character I think that’s correct I think that’s correct and I do think she dips in and out of acknowledging properly these young people are very young like that’s a big difference of I remember when I was
Working at a coffee shop in fville this is 2017 yeah and then these young guys would come in saying they want cigarettes and I have to check IDs and I would take their ID and I would say okay what year are you born and they’d be
Like 1998 and i’ be like oh my God you can oh that’s fine then like I have to give it to them CU they’re 18 or whatever it is and I couldn’t believe that that’s like the the range there um so I do think that’s a big difference in
Those 20 years um I think okay you ever have a relationship and you have a breakup and there’s things that you know your partner wouldn’t expect you to do and it gives you a little joy to do them afterwards I think that that’s where Agatha is floating yeah again I can be
Fun I can be fun yeah yeah are there other parts of the the book that you feel more people gravitating to like I think obviously we’re talking about money we’re talking about capitalism like the youth you know campus aspect of it what else do you think people are going to take away from
This story uh I think there’s an enjoyment at acknowledging the insanity of living in a dorm and living within such close proximity to other people in a tiny little box and the things that you think you have to buy um one thing that I love talking to people about is a character
Named Peyton um so Millie is a black ra on her floor and there’s one other black student on her floor and that’s pton and Millie sees her and just feels like oh I’m going to be like this girl’s like big sister like I’m going to help this girl like she’s a little socially
Awkward but like I got you and Payton’s like I don’t I want nothing to do with you she wants nothing to do with her and so I think that that Dynamic a lot of people have talked to me about out and it was really fun for me to put them in
The same room with one another um there’s a lot of very specific items in this book um that I think shape the way you see a person and certain people are like jamming me about certain items like the Patagonia jacket or the Ning bottle
Or like what that means to them um and I think when I objects speak to you in that way that’s super interesting yeah well I’m glad you brought it Pon because that’s also a thing too it’s just like one I I went to a historically black college so that like that necessarily
Wasn’t an issue but when you’re at a pwi predominant white institution and then there’s only like a limited number of black people the expectation is like okay you two should like each other you two should be friends and if that’s not happening like what does that mean or
Like the assumptions that are being made because you happen to be like the only two black girls in the class or like in the DOR it’s a Hu it’s like there’s pressure either way if you’re the person who doesn’t want to like be friends or if you do there’s there’s a ton of
Pressure I remember I was in a class in college and there was one other black girl there besides me and the TA for the class was my girlfriend and she told me after class one day I need to tell you something I talked to our teacher and he
Was complaining that no one talked in class and she said that’s not true Kylie talks and he was like who’s that and she’s like you know she sits over there and he goes which black girl I can never tell him AP part we when I tell you we looked
Nothing alike when I tell you that I believe you I could I could not and so it’s like she we weren’t like friends fighting anything but it’s like immediately we have this like connection that everyone sees that we don’t it’s like so much pressure on our relationship and like I can’t see her
Pass through the hall without thinking of that at that point I think there’s so much pressure on black students in pwi that way and and this was just one way I wanted to explore it yeah it so so when I initially picked up your book I was um
I was really John S mil’s character but she she’s she’s black girl and I was like you know Making Connections there but I do feel like this is a story that I don’t want to say it sounds dramatic to say transcends race but like I I
Don’t know if her race was at the Forefront as I was reading it and that feels very intentional on your part I just kept thinking them of them as call like students in a collective and thinking about her like individual circumstances that brought her into the
Space and I think that’s just it was brilliant how you did that because sometimes I it just wasn’t as like I wasn’t thinking about her race necessarily I think that’s that’s the read that I wanted race was such a prominent part of such a fun age because
It had to be with the circumstance I think with this is more class I think this is more class here I also feel that Millie if my character is not thinking about race that often I it it feels an appropriate for me to have that be the
Story that I’m telling um a reader and also just like black authors are going to write about race a lot in some books and not the others and like but I also think because Millie wasn’t thinking about it as much it was more fun for me
Not fun but it was it was more effective when racism does has happen to her it felt because she’s like oh wait I thought we were all just hanging out and then someone’s doubting why she has the job that she has or someone’s saying something about um you know um oh that
Thing is ghetto or or you know however it happens in the book and so this wasn’t a book where I wanted to explore race as much I really wanted to explore consumption and and gossip and I but at the same time when you have black characters and there are several it’s
Part of their lives and race does come up as well yeah and it also made me think that perhaps if you had put the setting at Ivy League Grace would have been more of or just it it might have had a different space because like you know at this University is what there’s
Probably 20,000 students at Yale there’s probably like 5,000 you know what I mean just like the numbers of it that would have been different different um so it was interesting that can you talk more about the setting and I know you mentioned you lived there for about a
Year and a half but did you do any research and going back there like when you were doing this this round of just trying to like yourself familiar okay I knew I wanted it to be in 2017 and then I planned on doing trips when I would go back because I that
Helps me so much just like being in that space But then the pandemic happened and so I said okay it’s definitely in 2017 now and I went on Google Search and took pictures just to make sure that I was getting everything correct for how it
Was like in that period um it was a huge bummer but it did inspire me to reach out to more people and and interview them and I I’m happy with how those things inspired the book too did you interview any professors too I interviewed a few a journalism Professor
I interviewed yeah a few at the University I interviewed a um Paton twirling coaches as well I would just email people and say hey do you want to talk to me and most of them would say yes I was very surprised I love that I just appreciate like your research
Process and being so thorough and so thoughtful about like getting the the sound of the characters making sure they sound authentic and like you could see their worlds around each person you know so it it it just allows for like a very seamless fun read oh good yeah and then
Afterwards like I this literally is my like group text book like all like my group text I was like did you get to this part what do you think about this character and we’ve been reminiscing about college a lot like we’ve been talking about like our experiences and
The things that like stood out for us and you know comparing some folks went to Ivy League schools and went the state and just like the differences in the that experience and living together yeah that’s a huge goal of mine with the book when a book reminds me of something that
I completely forgot about or a person or a place that I have not thought about in years that’s a success to me that and when a character is so specific that it like ignites something in you I had a a now friend who wrote the uh part of the
Poetry and the epigraph of the book Lucy Beerman she said she read the book and she said I knew a pton I knew a pton and she hated me and everyone else and her parents would surprise her at work by driving 4 hours to come and see her and
They would have lunch with her and then they would leave and she was like I haven’t thought about that in years and that to me is like the best thing my gosh I love that that’s also kind of creepy but yeah like it’s very loving but smothering all at once yes yeah there’s
A lot of mom parent things in here as well yeah yeah which also like leads the whole other conversation about like mothering because that then it makes we we were just talking about like Mom stuff and like our our kids are so small but you’re like how do you raise them so
They’re like efficient reliable adults and so when they get to College they’re resourceful and not like some of the characters and I think about that a lot but we both have little babies and like my my child is one and a half but I’m
Like how even now I’m like how do I let her know if she’s at a restaurant and people are cleaning up that it’s time for her to go like why am I thinking about that now but I like want her to be like a polite person in the world and
College is where all of that is like put to tests all the time right right but it’s like only so much you can really do as a parent because like what they sort out is going to be on that campus and they have to do that independently but
You’re hoping like all the small things you do up until that point like shape and mold them exactly exactly I’m so obnoxious I’m like Mommy is cleaning up right now it’s like trying to show by example but some of those things they got to learn for themselves yeah okay so
We’re gonna take some questions from the audience don’t be shy yeah go for it yoube than right there they can line up hello is this working yes hi thank you so much for being here um you mentioned that you write a lot of characters who make good and bad choices
I was wondering if you could talk about whether you actively think about like this character is too unlikable or this character is too is acting too well and behaving too well if you like really construct how they make these good and bad choices or if you just kind of let
Them act the way that you think they would act and see where the the the chips fall that is a great question I’m a bit clinical when it comes to characters and I do think about that that’s I don’t think a likable character makes for a good character I don’t think
A book needs a bunch of liable characters like we all love succession and like they’re all awful you know what I mean like you don’t need a bunch of like great people to have a good book with this novel in particular I was concerned after having a friend read the
Book and early draft about Millie being you know a perfect protagonist kind of character and I think that that’s an issue when someone’s a little bit too perfect it doesn’t mean shoehorning like oh let’s have her like steal a book or something like into the doesn’t mean
That at all but it’s just like what parts of her personality do we want to bring out more or less in what moments so I definitely think about having characters that are too like well I want to read people who are super real and when an author is telling me like isn’t
She so nice I’m like oh God leave me alone I feel like it’s little like manipulative um so I do think about that a lot um Millie is one of my more likable characters but I can also say that like if Millie and Amira were roommates like they would hate each
Other I think so that was kind of nice too but yes I do think about that a lot thank you so much hi hi um I was struck when you said that you paid your interviewees $15 to talk to you for 45 minutes about money so like back when I was doing interviews
As a grad student in 2009 I had a grant to pay people $20 to work with me for an hour and a half which to me as a grad student making $155,000 a year was like Fortune um and I realized now these were 50-year-old men who owned their own law
Firms and they were like 20 bucks oh thanks um did you notice a difference in how people reacted to to the possibility of getting $15 and then did that relate to what they had to tell you about their experience with money that’s a great question
Um I feel that a lot of students are used to receiving sums like that from babysitting or or house sitting or whatever A lot of them didn’t blanch too much I did want to make it $15 an hour honestly I was excited that I could do
That I I wasn’t in the position to do that with my first book and it was just like will you talk to me please like friend of a friend kind of person and I wanted to make it worth it I also feel like in general like when you’re paying
People they are inspired to do a good job and that’s why people should get paid well for what they’re doing um it was a little bit dicey cuz I had like a script at a certain point like I’ll pay you this for talking to you for this
Song Blah Blah blah and then when I would talk talk to people of a certain age they’d be like Kylie you don’t have to give me $15 like I’m an adult you just it’s mine um so it was that was kind of a strange line um but some of the girls I
Remember I gave $15 to the group of Roommates with the let’s get weird sign and when I handed them them cash they said one of them said oh I didn’t realize you were getting paid let’s go get froo and I put that into the novel immedately I I don’t know if it still
Lives there but it was in the first draft it is it is there thank you guys yeah um I think it was more of a symbol sometimes you know uh how do I say it you know when people want to prove like how normal they are to you um I think
Sometimes I had students say to me like like really telling me like oh I can like eat off of this for like eight days I’m like that’s weird so I did notice comments like that which were more fodder for me honestly um yeah those were the biggest moments with money
That’s a great question though thank you oops oh hi yeah um I actually really really enjoyed the book I was actually a little nervous because the the reviews like I read was like it’s a little iffy but I read it and I feel like I really
Like it and but however I do agree with some of the reviewers saying like there was minimal plot in this book like I’m a very big character-driven person so like I don’t really mind that but like I can see why some people were saying that I’m just wondering like what’s your view on
It and is it like how you were when you were starting to write this books this is how you were Envision as in like this is going to be a minimal plot it’s going to be revolved around characters got you okay with this book the wonderful and terrible thing
About publishing is that it takes forever okay so there was 18 months between selling such a pen agent and coming out and I was in graduate school and I didn’t want to waste like The Graduate School experience I really wanted to write so I started writing it
10 months before such my age came out because I was so nervous about such of my age too and I just like wanted to not think about it and like what do they say the best way to get over someone is getting under someone else you know what
I mean so I was just like let me do let me get into this I did not go into this book thinking I’m going to have minimal plot cuz I like plot a lot and there’s a lot of aspects here I feel like it’s a different level it’s there more interior
I feel like it’s a different level but there’s also really classic plot points within this novel of M um wanting friends wanting a house wanting a boyfriend and then there’s Kennedy like okay she leaves the dishes one time okay her her roommate’s getting a little bit more annoyed with her there
Were definitely aspects that I wanted to pump up because I really like plot as well I don’t go into a book saying I’m GNA do this kind of story I think that I don’t know how I could write that way you know what I mean well I also think
Because so your first book it was like I don’t know what debut like it was mega mega mega mega successful and this book is going to be on the same plane you know but like it’s I think people automatically start comparing I think so
And the plot with such a fun age is like it’s a different pace there’s different stakes and it’s like this feels more about proximity and the interior and the closeness of the characters versus like it it there’s way more not drama but there’s just a different energy in such
A funny age I think that’s correct I think that’s really correct and um K from lit Society I don’t know if youen L is a great podcast she’s reading both books and she said to me okay let me tell you something such a fun age is so
Fun and it’s a sitcom come and get it is a film and I think that that’s correct because guess what I love sitcoms but I also love films you know I love that that’s a good I think that that’s where I was thinking about plot in those ways
I but I don’t go into it saying I’m going to do this with this book this is just what came out of my brain at the time yeah yeah thanks there are good reviews you guys yes yeah yeah there’s lots of good R um I just want to say that um thank
You for including uh baton twirlers I am a former baton twirler and I don’t talk about that like ever but I did competitive baton twirling for many many years like I was in a baton troop I mean amazing when I got to college and people
Were like oh were you in the band I’m like in the band I was like oh but I did do extra curric yeah I was The Soloist the marching band what was your troop called uh Virginia bat Nets o batet so out of Richmond Virginia uh so
That starts it in the South and then it goes deep south I mean baton twirling is like such a thing and so for you to like even get to the coaches I mean it’s it’s a I mean at one point I thought I wanted to be like a majorette like on a college
Team even or a feature twirler and then I went to the University of Virginia and then like after I left we had like a pep band um but then they got a true marching band and Baton twirler so I like I missed my shining moment in life
If you will um I know um but it seems like if you’ve had um different levels of the college experience kind of with this book like not only were you at you were in Arkansas um around students you’re currently a professor um with students how have how do you see the the
Interaction of the students if you will um in in in those settings you said you were in well I would say like just being in Arkansas it’s a college is a different experience there than in Michigan and so as you are the Observer of seeing how campus relations because
That’s what the book is mostly about their interpersonal relationships how that plays out right it was very I’ve lived in yeah yeah I’ve now lived in four college towns for like a significant amount of time Arizona in Tucson Iowa City fville and now in Arbor in fville I I was
Fascinated by like the Aesthetics and I felt like there was a true like subculture within the students there I remember seeing a lot of young women walk around and they all would be wearing like the same version of like an outfit like the big shirt with like the
Uh muted colors and the little shorts and then the first time I saw them I was like oh there must be some event they’re dressing up for okay and then the second day I was like the event are still going they were just always all dressed
In this way and I thought that it was so fascinating that like no matter what clothes you came in now you’re like this is how I dress like and an Iowa it was different and that everyone was wearing the Iowa logos everywhere it was fascinating so I am a professor now I
Like teaching I think students are really fascinating and seeing all the different subcultures has been Illuminating for me especially now that I have a daughter and thinking about those things as well um with this book there are satirical elements in tiny Parts but not with the students this is
Not a pure satire no what matter or what any magazine says this was not me making fun of the South or students I just think that that’s like a lazy boring Choice um I wanted to get to the heart of who these students were from what I
Saw them as which is complicated and bright and strange at the same time yes also baton twirlers I did get to talk to a baton twirler as well and she was fascinating and at one point I asked her um what do you do if you drop the Baton
What do you do and she said you make sure your coach didn’t see you squat you never bend over and you keep going like it never happened and that went straight into the novel so baton trolling is fascinating Sparkle Sports in general I couldn’t I could not imagine
And when I tried to reach out to a team the coach stepped in like they will not talk to you I will talk to I was they that could be you if that you want that b yes I hope that answer okay good hi hi hi thanks for tonight Kylie
Um two-part question I’m interested that you wrote the book just before well in the year before uh such a fun age came out and I’m wondering whether had you have known that such a fun age was going to be such a huge success internationally I know it was massive in
Australia I heard you on the podcast the book show the other night yeah um would you have ridden it with a you know such an American culture sort of college Centric culture which is something that the world knows about but obviously doesn’t connect to in the same way that
An American audience would would you have made it perhaps more International so to try and reach in to that International audience or are you kind of glad that you didn’t know that such a fun age was going to be such a big success so you just wrote what you
Wanted to write the lad the lad I mean I when I wrote such a fun age I never thought that it would reach any you know what I mean like and I think that harnessing where you are with just cuz you are writing for you and that’s it
That’s where you want to be yeah um not all of my books are going to be for for everyone but I also think that I personally love reading about you know something I don’t know about and like diving in and seeing how it’s portrayed there I
Think the success was such a fun age was Al was it I believe it’s about the book but I also think that really strange things were happening that year I now know that the black lives matter black lives matter movement made it a different thing for certain people and a
Lot of black authors had to contend with like what does it mean that white people are picking up my book as like a bomb for like a huge situation that’s been going on for hundreds of years also people were reading more in 2020 than they like ever have been and then the
Pandemic happened and it was like where we at home like let’s read some more and so it come and get it was honestly like I felt like a freebie you know like my thesis adviser said to me just write the book that you want to write like you did
The big book so this is like a freebie so I’ve been kind of the four years of making it was kind of like I snuck out and my parents found out and they’re like we’re going to talk about this in the morning and I’m like well I’m
Already out so I’m going to get [ __ ] up you know what I mean like so just like do whatever like this is a freebie that’s what this one was and and I’m really proud of it so it’s definitely have you had any insights about whether it will or is doing well internationally
Or whether it’s going to have that same am internationally I have no clue I’ll find I’ll be in London soon see I’ll find out I hope thank you yeah take your time you’re awesome um so I have like two completely different questions so like for instance like for the fluidity
Of how you write like it’s so easy to grasp like it very much makes me think of like black Flamingo and like all boys aren’t blue and like any Matt heg novel but more towards like the Matt heges like because of how fluid you write and
How I can just like read it in like a day or two would you ever consider like doing a more Memoir esque or even like a Samantha Herby like kind of like okay fair enough fair enough I so appreciate that first of all and that’s what I want like that is what
Like the hours go to is like making sure that it reads perfectly if you are a writer in here you have to read your work out loud it is humiliating but you have to do it and just making sure that everything works out I am so aggressively not interested in writing
About myself maybe one day I I could be your child will my child will yes yes unfavorably too yes uh for the time being no but at the same time I was an RA for a year I was a transfer student I’m a professor now some of those
Experiences make it into my work but I I just find myself being much more interested in places that I’ve been and like jobs that I’ve had and I’ve had a lot of jobs so I think that those will will show up more um it’s just not like
My my pension I don’t know what it is I get like KY about it but yeah if that makes sense but you had another question I do have another question it’s completely different um so like with this book you obviously have like obvious queer characters and then in
Such a fun age and this just me maybe because I’m queer I’m looking for it but it it felt like there was almost like a sexual tension between her both of those characters and I’m like my question is like was that deliberate in both to like
Have like a main queer character in this book and then also possibly have these like undertones in this book or like was there a reason for that or like any like Direct towards giving that character that Essence towards them if that makes sense that makes sense that makes sense in this
Novel Millie’s sexuality is really wrapped up in how she views adulthood and like people who are cooler than her and at one point she she says she’s feeling feelings towards some another woman but she feels like she can’t tell her friends because it seems like it’s their
Thing and not hers and it’s like a lot of people like are queer it’s fine um within such a fun age there is a little bit of crossover and I see what you’re saying this is what I think when it comes to talking about women I feel
That a lot of women have such an intense friendship and infatuation with each other that the lines become blurred between like I want to be you and I want to like you to like me at the same time um I feel that the intensity of thinking about other
Women feels sexual even if you don’t want to like be sexual with them I think that’s a very normal feeling that a lot of people have where you’re just like man I’ve been thinking about this moon for an hour am I in love with her like what’s going maybe like well I think
Also like what you’re writing to was what I read was just intimacy and I think that like you know when you’re with your bestie and you guys are like on the couch like watching bouette and like you’re cuddling but it’s like your best friend you know what I mean like
Those like lines especially in college where just like everyone’s like one big like mosh pit of like hanging out all the time yes yes I think I was I was fooling around with like what Obsession looks like and sometimes you’re totally right Alex is so obsessed with the
Mirror that it’s like the obsession feels like a crush CU that’s all like that’s the only thing you can like compare the experience to I’m super interested in the way that women relate to each other in those ways and I know like as someone like who is like some
That somehow the best outfits I’ve ever had have been because a woman I hated was going to be somewhere you know what I mean like and I feel that the intensity of that emotion sometimes feels sexual and I think that that’s that’s how people are yeah okay does
That make sense yeah I mean like I get that cuz I feel that about Greece cuz I’m like apab and like queer and poly and all that and I’m like oh I want to be Sandy and I want to be Danny but I also want to be with Sandy and be with
Danny so like I get totally get it that’s it completely and then you throw buying stuff in there too and you’re like there’s this part where Millie goes in Agatha’s cabinet and she’s just looking at her salt block deodorant and tampons and she’s like what kind of
Person would I be if I use these things yeah I think you get it thank you much yeah any any more questions before we start signing if not let’s give a huge round of applause so [Applause] much
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