Oh whoa good morning welcome everyone this is cof with creators this is 42s 18 Street atama itself and this is Kesha lamper good morning how are you cool let’s uh before we get into that really quick guys I want to thank Boom flasho for sponsoring this you guys know flas
Points the house brand here at Adorama if you guys are looking to gear up and not go crazy on with a budget check out the options I think there’s more options in that brand than any other and it’s all supported here at Adorama itself you guys have seen it whoa I have
Audio coming out of everywhere and I just want to thank Gotham roaster for the coffee Cheers Cheers boom what’d you get I got black coffee yeah I’m always G the black coffee extra ice what’s with the extra ice explain the extra ice it just I like ice
Yeah more the better all right I mean I I I’m I don’t like it to get too watered down so I watch the ice but I also drink it fast so it doesn’t matter anymore but Gotham roastes we like you guys they’re one block north of Adorama like you
Could physically go through to the block you’d hit it and my personal recommendation check out the bobka cinnamon or chocolate um I I it’s like my Sophie’s Choice every day I don’t know do you you a bobka kind of girl um I’m not like you’re not a pastry chick
No I get it I mean I like sweets but not not for breakfast all right fair fair fair all right cool guys so if you guys want while we’re chatting you can check out Kesha’s work right there on her Instagram right here and if you didn’t know Kesha is one an awesome wedding
Photographer a porch photographer you do a lot for brand lifestylish kind of stuff um but the but aside from being a Sony Artisan you’re also a lawyer which I think is like the coolest add-on to our our what we have to do here yeah it’s an interesting path that brought me
Here but yeah uh and interesting that I’ve met other people that are lawyer photographers we are a rare breed but we’re out we’re out here but I think it’s significant I mean look if you’re trying to make a living at this you’ve got contracts legalities copyright you
And I think the biggest one is people skills right because you’re constantly conversing with people you’re constantly in debate situations you’re trying to figure out ways to kind of get where you need to go with somebody when you got a bride that’s losing her mind I’m pretty
Sure you’ve got you’ve got it set yeah so I I and that’s one of the things I say about being my my law background and running a business that like the greatest thing that it has done for me is not necessarily it’s okay bring it in
Okay yeah it’s not so yes it serves me well in terms of like having my house in order but one of the best things that it’s done for me is like everything that falls under soft skills like relationship management dispute resolution like reading the room those kind of skills uh are just super
Important when you’re working with people where they uh where the work is tied to emotion and and working with people who have poured a a lot into their plans and you know they have a lot of like emotional tie to the work that’s exactly what it is they’ve been waiting
For this day for like a lifetime sometimes it’s their I look at weddings as their 15 minutes of fame like it’s all their friends it’s all their look at us we’re Center Stage right and I’m just showing some of your work while we talk for for for for some it’s interesting I
I appreciate so I I do a lot of large Multicultural Weddings But I also do my fair share of people weddings where people are just showing up and getting married they have the simplest plans look at how awesome her look at this like how ex that was one of the grander
Weddings um yeah I think definitely uh it’s a weddings are a a chance for people to kind of show Express themselves creatively and the way they plan out their day and the experience they create for their guests and and for some people it’s just like they look at
It in much simpler terms they what they care about boils down to you know we’re starting our lives together we just want to get married but we want it to be be pretty yeah but they also want to document it right I feel like that’s the
Biggest stress they have as far as our side of things go is I only got one shot at every moment yeah and I better pick the right photographer and I think you have a pedigree of work that shows like what you can deliver and I think uh it
Kind of puts a little stress on us also like oh you want that again I got lucky or like you know well I mean there’s a human element to it this is not like we’re not machines it’s not copy and paste right yes I have a certain skill
Set I have like away I see a scene I have tons of experience but I’m human being so like there’s no such thing as like copy and paste like I could have had I could be having a rough time you know like or you know the circumstances
Of the day every wedding you’re dealt a different deck of cards I look at it you know the those factors those variables play into the outcome um and a lot of things that people don’t understand too is they’ll look at your portfolio and you know what’s in my
Portfolio yes is attributed to my talent and how I see the world and all that wonderful stuff but it’s also attributed to the collaborative effort behind it right it’s also you know attributed to clients that say yes when I ask them you know that that are down to create
Together it’s you know how you know one of one of my things like that often gets overlooked is like people choose they o they don’t put a lot of importance in certain parts of the day so they’ll like getting ready prep space for example they’ll like choose a loc uh like a
Hotel that isn’t the best or something like that oh interesting and it’s like cuz they’re placing importance rightfully on their ceremony and reception but then you know like when you’re not thinking with when you’re not choosing like your location and planning out the details of your day with the
Aesthetic that you want in mind you don’t get the outcome that you want right and they also don’t a lot most of the time they’re not going to have an eye for what you’re trying to get as an end result right and they’re just kind of trusting you for it but then you’re
Like cool you gave me all this junk when I needed this amazing stuff to work with but odds are um you get to a place I feel as a wedding photographer that you get hired by clientele that you know you raise you keep going up and up and up
You get these bigger weddings and they go to amazing places and some of these places are just fish and Barrel like gorgeous like you absolutely slow pitch beautiful um I think though that’s one of one of the things I love about being a wedding photographer is that I’ve learned so much being wedding
Photographer I it’s taken a lot of fear out of unfamiliar circumstances it’s taken a lot of fear out of troubleshooting things because when it comes to running into problems I’ve run into quite a few oh yeah and you have to think on your feet you and you learn in
The process a lot so and I think it’s also very I take it as a personal challenge if if I’m working an event or a wedding that does not have ideal is not you know the prettiest venue or you know it’s cool that how can I make this
Look fantastic like it’s a per you know personal challenge to find ways to push your creativity to push your eye so and then you keep that in your back pocket for like you know I was in a place like this before the wood was this color the light wasn’t coming in through that
Window what did I do that time when you start that’s where you start building right but I I always wondered and also I’m not a w photog i shot two weddings in my whole life I’ll never do it again traded one wedding from my chest piece that’s not the first time I’ve heard
That oh it’s just not my thing you know I don’t connect to it but I do look at wedding photographers as a glamour press photographer you’re trying to glamorize and cover an event and get what happened but in the most beautiful way in a beautiful cated but you’re still trying
To get the truth of the honor like what you know they really do like each other it’s not just for the money right you know so I feel like you’re you’re tuning into their emotions their head space you’re trying to give them what you think they want to remember
About it but I got to ask you cuz I think we’re in a different era and we’re in this world where Instagram shows all these weddings that seem almost impossible almost like a impossible Beauty standard and then they’re showing these like that did not happen those seagulls are put in in Photoshop that
Title Wave against the the lighthouse didn’t exist her dress wasn’t that long do you get these brides and grooms that are like we want this fairy tale that never happened and do you try to rain it in it all so this be good process that it’s a good
One right no no that is a great question so yes there’s a lot of per Perfection and you know and I play into some of that Perfection too even though I don’t look at my portfolio and think that I present Perfection necessarily but I believe on the photographer end we when
You’re trying to attract a client you’re trying to attract the right people to you you show the work that you think will speak to them and you show the work that will excite them and then in turn people are looking at it and creating expectations around it right so yes I
Get some interesting I’ve received some interesting requests but I Reed less and less of them okay um and and I’m very intentional about that um I think I’m very big on I’m very big on open conversation getting a window into people’s heads and making sure we they making sure I effectively
Communicate um all the things that you know that that are possible so I’m very big on creating a space where people feel like we’re going to um do something that is all yours versus trying to create this um this trying to this this ideal that you’ve seen in you know we’re
Going to create your own ideal because I I know there are definitely you see it all the time you see it like there was one there’s one in particular I remember there was this viral wedding that was like kept everybody kept sharing it it was like a
Winter or I think I don’t know if it was winter but it’s like this white beautiful wedding on a train you I don’t know you might have even seen it it was so viral you might not have cuz you’re not in the wedding world yeah I get a
Lot of horror stuff I get May didn’t but if you’re like if you’re anywhere in the wedding space you saw this wedding air quote circulating and the thing is that it was AI whoa okay it was not a real wedding and a lot of that has is you
Know like it was this Perfect Design now so there’s a lot of skewed expectations that can be built around that had people who dm’d me and shared it and said oh my God this is beautiful I want to do something like this and I’m like it’s not real it’s fake it’s
Fake um but so there is that it’s getting really tricky out there these days um and I think that’s where relationship management communication you know so you know really effectively communicating what you do right like I strongly encourage people to look at my work or if they’re working with an
Associate from my team to look at their work right um because that is what you’re signing up for that’s your expectations but they’re also hiring you too right you’re you’re a guest there your demeanor do they want to do they want to work with you for the entire day
Are you going to make them feel like they want to be shot that’s a big part of it I don’t think a lot of people realize that either you want me in your space right and it’s just like portrait photography like you got to connect a
Little bit to get that extra out of them I think it’s the same thing with weddings I and I I think um you know Brides have an idea but really don’t know what they want most of time they just say like this was amazing and that
Was amazing and then you got to show them the stuff you’ve done so they can land somewhere yeah you know I believe there’s a lot we’re over stimulated when it comes to inspiration oh content over and so like don’t inspire me anymore I’m done I’m enough stop with all the inspir no
We I love the inspiration but um I think it’s you know it’s very important for for people to to for photographers to be able to sift through that right um keep expectations real right but also like you know you’ll have someone pulling something from you know from this
Photographer and from that and they putting it all on one Pinterest board and none of it is cohesive it’s different points of views different styles different styles different lighting Styles different all all of that and it’s like you’re trying to get a window into what they like and they
Like a little bit of everything and it’s like let’s rate let’s figure out what what you what you like what you want let’s let’s narrow this down because these are all pretty these are all beautiful these are all stunning but they’re very distinctively different
Well for that in my head what I if I was doing this I’d be like well let me get second shooters that have a totally different style than mine just so they have options of a different point of view but then you might go well no this
Is a team effort to deliver One Vision so which way would you go on that so I’m very big on the end product being cohesive and tying into One Vision so I wouldn’t so and and when I say that one of the expectations of my second photographer
One of the things I tell my second photographers is that you’re not on the hook I’m on the hook right right right I really want you to go play I want you to push yourself I going to I don’t want you to be over my shoulder you got it covered I need the
Extra I need I need the I need you to be in the cut like you know do that you know definitely I feel like a second photographer’s role is fold Insurance on important things so they get a second perspective of it but really you’re there to just push and create yeah yeah
Um but I at you know so even with that though I don’t I wouldn’t for example want someone who has like a very I don’t know what do you call it like uh soft and Whimsical style to necessarily blend in with my Punchy high contrast yeah yeah yeah none of that
None of that none of that Airy stuff here no no no I’m not I’m not no but styles are Styles there is no right answer there’s so I mean and I always I always say that my style is very Gemini is it’s adaptable wow okay
Because in that in that it it it es and flows like what lighting or I may choose to set you know what light whether I choose to use the the light in the space or ADD and created light or how I’ll compose an image definitely is inspiration driven but
It’s still going to ring true to the look I still want the end look even though I’m adaptable to look like my work yeah you want you want to be psyched on what you created it’s it’s got to be your voice a little bit got to be consistent with because one of the
Things I deal with in the commercial makeup world is someone comes to me with a let’s say they want to make a portfolio they drop down a book or or an iPad in these days and they show me all these images they want to create and I’m
Like none of these are real images they’re CGI or they’re overly retouched to a point where the makeup doesn’t even matter and I know for a fact a lot of the wedding photog you see out there is like a curated model that happened to have been more of a production for those
Shots rather than a wedding how often do you get those as references like this isn’t even a wedding these are two models that just met that day and there’s a catering table on the left you don’t see and you know is that something you got to kind of rain in a little bit
And kind of so I don’t have to rain it in okay so I I I don’t think so think the people who present that work if they’re using that work to sell their work right they have to just make sure that they can live up to what they’re
Showing okay um but for me you know I think if someone wants to pull inspiration and say Hey you know and you know this is what I like this is you know or typically I don’t get a lot of that a lot of people are coming to me
Because they pulled in they I’m the Pinterest board right you know so and if I’m not that you usually R you know that usually is kind of an indication that they probably should be looking to book the person that is heavily or the people who fit the style that is heav reflected
In on their board but um I think when people do the you know these style shoots um where it’s like models and not a real couple or even these days I see um again like a lot of um AI inspiration that looks kind of convincing in many
Instances it’s up to the person that’s presenting that to be able to you know be able to live up to what they’re showing you know because they’re very different set of circumstances when you have a controlled environment when you’re doing what is essentially a photo shoot versus right real life event event
Like you do not have perfect conditions in a real life event we are sometimes I I’ll I I look at like a set of photos and I’m like I got all of those photos I did all of those photos in like two minutes like that’s not what you get
When you do a style shoot you have all the time in the world well they’re also focused on the technique there and I think some of the most successful wedding photographers in my opinion have been the ones that are like which is the weird Uncle which is the cousin that
Only shows up to this event and they want to make sure they see them or you know who’s really important they get to know the key figures and they Haw them and they really understand the emotional connection cuz in the end that’s what the event is that’s what it’s about yeah
It’s not you can have the giant grand ballroom and the giant dress and it’s all down those stairs great you live that moment for 3 seconds don’t you want to see how weirdly drunk that cousin got that you hate but you kind of thought he was funny that night don’t you want to
Remember that in 20 years this is one of my things that I’m just like it’s so fascinating to me when you’re a photographer trying to Market yourself the thing that is going to pull people in nine times out of 10 are those pretty pictures right those perfect like the
Portraits an ad yeah yeah um but the things that people care about the things that people choose the wedding album is what tells me a lot it’ll be these things that you know these moments the Messier moments make it into the album like you know messy meaning like you
Know somebody crying ugly crying or somebody doing a split on a dance floor somebody’s grandpa doing a split you know those are the things that people get printed yeah and yet it’s weirdly it’s not the thing that if I were honestly if I were I’m I should you know
I should do a test but if I when I if I were to post that kind of content or sh you know write about it blog about it show that kind of content I don’t I think that would speak more to maybe other photographers and I don’t know know
Necessarily that it would speak to don’t you think couples or to the bride I should say to the bride okay but don’t you think that’s more about how it’s conversed right like you get the beautiful but this is like a series if you actually like called it a certain
Thing like the B sides of the wedding or the Deep cuts of a wedding going like you know I appreciate that you were looking for those CU those are the moments really that’s what people that’s what it’s about that’s the whole point um I’m the space I’m in though I
Think there a lot of importance is placed on the visuals which it you know like and by visuals I mean like the you know Less on those real moments and more on those wow this is a really beautifully styled pose even you know this was a you know like a lot of the
More scripted things are what people will look and judge whether but I’ve had you know I’ve gotten the the best the most beautiful feedback I get from a client that I’ve worked with is when they look at their wedding photos and they’re like I’m reliving my day or you
Know when they say I didn’t even know that happened yes and that feels good to hear and that’s what makes them happy and that’s what gets them telling other people or even strong AR strong arming other people to book me cuz they’re like I’m going to cherish these photos no I
We just came back from Imaging which is a conference in a big big conference you were part of it for a while uh and this this one woman actually said to me she was like one of the reason I actually got into photography was cuz I hated my
Wedding photos when I initially loved my wedding photos and I and I I was so like sucked into this I was like what are you talking about she goes well I got the fantasy I got the fairy tale I got the thing I aspired to think I wanted but I
Don’t remember that I don’t remember that sky looking like that I don’t remember this looking like that I said wow that’s the first time I think I’ve ever heard someone regret the fantasy end of it instead of striving for it and so she was like well now I wanted to try
And see if I could shoot the way I wanted and she just got hired she got hired for weddings and wasn’t even doing weddings so I think it’s really interesting that you in the end you have to connect to the people that are are shooting for you for whatever you’re
Doing so much so important um I’m very big on I’m nosy so I’m very like I’m nosy not at stalker level nosy but I’m nosy you’re lawyer level nosy so I love to find out lots of lots of um things about our the couples that I’m working with and then
On the wedding day I’m super observant and I’m I’m very like aware of those little nuances um relationship Dynamics I’m looking for them on day like so important who like who is the you know who are the who the who’s the matriarch of the family might not be the mother or
F mother of the bride or groom it might be this auntie from somewhere else or like you know who’s the who’s the clown and or who’s this you know who traveled from wherever else to get there and or what little item is so super you know these little trinkets there’s so many
Layers of things happening on the wedding day between not only just the things but the people and so it’s that that being your observation skills are super important to kick your work up a notch absolutely those are the things that the nuances that you know kind of
Bring level up your work I think yeah photographers have gotten a little bit away from observing and gotten into this throwing their ego into images and when I say that I mean like look at this amazing lighting I did yeah but it’s her photo it’s the bride’s photo like let’s
Get what is she looking for oh did you miss the brooch that her dead grandmother gave her that she hasn’t said a word to and like these are the things you kind of got to tune into and I think you uh first of all how do you
Manage all those stories right if you’re doing multiple weddings in a season and you’re like oh no this was the grandmother one and that’s the cousin one like how do you do do you get like tripped up at all with any of that do you connect with them probably you do
Stay in touch with them I definitely stay in touch with a lot of our a lot of our couples um definitely interact with our couples a lot um and yeah I I I think some might weddings are personal so they personal they’re also public right like they want to show it you know
Yeah they do want to show it now mind you not everyone I do have a uh probably could count on my two hands how many but I do have couples that are very very private there are some and I respect that too like I you know this cuz that’s what this is not
About you know they they chose me and they usted me they don’t want to be in the Limelight I respect that um but I think you know it’s it’s it’s important to have that like a relationship because of that personal component and it can get kind of fuzzy
When you’re you’re still a business transaction so you do want to you do want to set healthy boundaries around the transaction component um but in order for the outcome to be you know spectacular you you need to pour a lot of your person into producing the work oh yeah this is
A relationships industry no matter what you shoot it’s relationships even if you’re shooting still life tabletop which you end up having to do anyway yeah we do flatlays yeah all that stuff but in the end you people have to want to work with you and have to say to
Someone actually they gave me a great experience not just a great result I mean portrait photography is 100% like that because you’re taking someone’s vulnerability most of the time and there’s definitely portraits I’ve shot that will never see the light of day but they wanted to show their their burn
Scars from something they endured or um I’ve done a lot of images for double Mass that will never go anywhere but that person they’re documenting something they needed significant and yeah it’s high person I’ll tell you my mother my my sister went through that and I regret
Every day not getting that shot from my sister every single day so don’t don’t underestimate relationships and what you can bring to it with a camera and sometimes it’s business transaction but sometimes you just shoot guys there’s a lot of stuff going on in this chat and somebody actually said the one behind
You taking a lot of notes thank you for coming through appreciate it you know you guys are allowed to come to these and you guys are allowed to ask questions so let us know in the chat if you have anything you want to ask casha
Uh or want to talk about anything as as far as where we’re at in this industry which we were actually talking about AI because I feel like that creeps into everything right yeah but I and you actually said uh you were thinking that when people say hey your camera takes
Great photos one day one day it will literally be literally be true one day yeah but man we we get so you know that’s if you want to send a a photographer into the red just say your camera takes good pictures but like I
Just give my camera go I said go yeah go for it since the camera does all the work no but like these advancements in technology are getting and and it and in AI in particular and how they’re being married into the the gear that we use and and even into our workflow it’s
Exciting in some respects and it’s like you know what can you do you have you know it’s here well you’re going to get to a point where brides are going to be like well they got their photos by the end of the day because AI retouched and
Sent me a Dropbox and I think that’s going to be the first hurdle is keeping up with someone that can deliver faster but then we’re going to deal with I don’t know copyright someone taking our images they’re scraping the internet uh PPA is in Congress right now fighting
For our copyrights because you’ll find watermarks in those images when they’re done with them right you know so what kind of law did you practice so um I’ve did a little bit of real estate antitrust litigation my last job before I went full-time in photography was actually in compliance so working at an
Investment Bank in house so do you feel like you have a bit of an edge on understanding this whole situation we’re in right now because I think a lot of DS are too creative to even think about so um I feel like it’s on a a lot of
People’s Radars and I I you know I see the Camp split I see some photographers that are fully um embracing it they don’t fear it they’re using it right um and then I see some that are very very very very concerned and rightfully so I’m somewhere you know I’m I’m I’m of the
Belief that when things advance in Tech space when these things happen in the industry these shifts you you have to find a way to um function with you have to find a way to move with the advancements right because you’re it’s so you know it’s so it’s so
Widely used and it’s expanding and growing that it’s it’s really not going anywhere and so we’re going to have to find ways to evolve assimilate really yeah and yeah I I mean look I was and when I say every time I go live I tell you guys I
Was raised by well I was raised by 4×5 film photographers and hardcore Studio guys that shot film and stuff like that and I watched a lot of these guys become irrelevant slowly because they didn’t do something as stupid as learn video that people needed for a few clips and they
Wonder why they’re not getting work and then they sell their gear and try to figure something else out if you don’t realize that you have to find out where you optimize the technology for what you’re doing you are going to find a day where you’re not as relevant to a wider
Audience and you’re going have to find that smaller audience that’s still looking for you deliver if you’re okay with that that’s fine but to fight technology is tough what we have to do is guide it in the right way because it’s a bullet once it’s fired and it’s
Out there we we got to watch it but we got to find out where we’re aiming it we have to figure out where AI is going to go for our industry so that we stay human I mean look at this I got kids coming here I guarantee there’s an NYU
Kid back there trying to buy a film camera because they’re just trying to find an honest image again right you know it’s that’s how crazy we’ve gotten so let in the chat do you guys fear AI or using AI I think a lot of people are
Looking as a retouch right now yeah I using it for workflow like retouching and editing it that’s what a lot of people are with it I I I think um oh and by the way I saw a comment that there may have been some questions up above or
Something like that I don’t know if but um no it’s we’re in a crazy gray area right and fast this is probably the fastest transition on things I think we’ve ever seen this was like a few months ago they were talking about like AI is coming by the way you’re all going
To lose your jobs now like what what just happened oh that’s what I wanted to I think real real events and real moments are are safe that is one thing that hi Kesha have you ever had someone something shoot and you can’t is there ever did anyone ever request something to shoot
That you felt you can’t like if for a wedding I’m I guess oh for a wedding yeah um I can’t think of a recent incident but I’m my answer would be yes because I think one thing about you okay you want me to get an Apple box I’m a squirmy
Person I feel short you want me I’ll give you a box to put your feet on no okay I’m okay yeah my feet are swinging down here it’s like a jungle gym down here I guess it’s like nuts she’s playing hop scotch I’m sure um so yeah so the short answer to that
Is yes that has happened um that’s one of the things I like about weddings is that I get put into you know very early on I’ve gotten put into circumstances where I’m encountering something new um so in terms of like a challenge my big thing is always setting expectations
Around things I’m not unwilling to push myself but I’m also very very honest and very very um good about managing expectations I’m okay you know I I like to under promise and overd deliver that’s the key it really is like if if I somebody asked me to do something I’m be
Like hey I’m willing I’ve never done it before um but give it a shot and they if they trust you enough they’ll give you a little bit more like time and patience to get there and nowadays you can show them what you’re doing as you’re doing
It so they kind of get an idea of what you’re chasing a little bit as opposed to like you’ll find out in two weeks you know it’s right I actually had something like that come up recently with a maternity session where is it uh the mom
To be wanted to do some experiment with shoot shooting through different fabrics and stuff like that okay and that’s not something I really do a lot of and and yeah you just I just put one up um but I thought it would be fun to you know to
Do and she you know she showed me some like examples of like the aesthetic and I’m like you know she she said this is just my experimental thing that I want to do and it was very deviated from all the other stuff that she wanted to do
And I felt cool you know fairly okay in in going there with her even though it deviated from like stuff that I would normally do in my portfolio took so and we had fun and you know but it was just about communicating yeah I don’t really
Do this but let’s go for it let’s try if I go down you go down we into this right I mean the way I do my shots is like I give them exactly what they’re expecting from me I I prioritize speed on my sets
So I give them the shot they want I give them a second shot that I know is different that I definitely can pull off and then if I got 10 more minutes I’ll be like cool let’s throw something against the wall cuz that might be my second shot the next time we do
Something and you can only know till you try it yeah you know and that’s how you you know for next time the um the one thing I did want to ask about AI is uh because I know you kind of do a lot with Adobe uh how do you feel about being
Part of the initiative to lend your images for their AI because you know how you they’re actually asking us and it’s like the moral way of doing this yeah I think that’s ethical way of going about it and I I’m I’m not mad at it okay
Would you would you go for it it’s tough right my answer in this moment is probably no okay well the images that a lot of your images are for the people you shoot right yeah there’s a very highly I mean I do some still life as a
Part of weddings also but I think a big part of my portfolio is very very much connected to personal things and um so like even you know one of the things that I you know I I I wouldn’t necessarily use a coup’s um photos commercially without their blessings
Yeah like you can’t you need them to so it’s like and it’s just an interesting conversation to have um because who knows where what what combinations and components of these very personal pictures how they will end up so that’s why in this moment I feel like I’m
Inclined to but I do think they’re going about the ethical way yeah I actually was like you know what that’s that’s pretty chill like at least you understand the creatives that are used your product would not be cool with you doing this any other way and so I think
It’s a PR it’s interesting where we’re going to go it’s going to happen really really fast um on a funner note she was telling me that she shoots a lot with her husband on these weddings yes and I really was into this thing in this conversation because she she’s you know
She’s like here and he’s like here and you got two different perspectives going on he’s got like a good what he’s 65 so he’s like 65 yeah so he’s got like he’s a foot and two inches taller than me or foot and he’s he’s he’s much taller he’s
He like a life guard like radius you like K should get to the far left there’s something happening um we have a very distinct difference in height and it it and and it our perspectives I think it shows in the when we when we shoot together like when we do a wedding
Together you can I can see ones that are the tall person perspective and I was telling Seth that a drone right exactly aerial view um one of the things I would tell him is like you know when when we when he started shooting with me one of my main requests was like shift
Your perspective bring that perspective down so meet me in the middle man meet me somewhere else no because you know it’s like that’s one of the things that at my stature I’m very aware of you’ll find me um often standing on things or getting low yeah um on my tippy toes
Sometimes oh no I’ve seen you at workshops I’ve seen you go for and I I’ve also seen your workshops go the crowd of people that you were shooting to be like like yes yes so you know I’m I’m aware that I don’t like I like my perspective but I’m aware that you know
My vantage point but I I’m also aware that I need to shift it um because it’s very comfortable to like just stay inside of your your POV yeah no I think it’s pretty interesting because I I whenever I look at a team of thers I hope that they’re kind of varied but
Come to the same point so you get all the advantages but you still get what you want which cohesive end result just super funny uh talking about uh all the education stuff because you’re in worship like that we were just talking about this like Hands-On versus demo
Style and I think we’re on like we’re we’re different yeah I mean well I I just you’re you’re you’re incredible that you can multi mul I call it multitasking I I whenever I’m doing a demo it’s very hard for me to or whenever I’m shooting in general right
So even if I’m doing a demo it’s hard for me to like talk through process while shooting I have to talk then shoot then talk and you can talk through what you’re doing as you’re doing I’m from Brooklyn that’s all we do I mean the only the hardest part is I can’t talk
With my hands while I’m shooting and then I’m like you need to be able to do that it’s what is but I think I I because I’ve watched you shoot and I um for the what we do the Sony was it no a7r Five release yes yeah and you were
Way more about the curation than like hardcore technicals and I think people really appreciated that you’re like this chair this look I want this look you just kept it going like you want you were going for this look and that was n so technical but you you’re explaining a
Part that I don’t think people understand that yes exposure great cool soft light here great but you’re like no this look and I thought that was really interesting the way you were to con that back from think about the look you want and then reverse reverse engineer it but
Even gestures you were you were focusing on a lot of things that I think because how many times have you done a workshop and they’re they don’t even converse with the people they’re just shooting going like this to you like like like a like a cat that caught a mouse like and
You’re like no no no talk to them tell them what you’re looking for I thought it was really interesting that’s where a lot of so nuanced magic comes to life right so being one of the I think one of my superpowers when it comes to working with people is that observing and being
Able to offer Direction about those nuances maybe it’s the in in the way they should be glanced or the bend of their wrist or the bend of their way they glance yeah so I’m very like a like when it comes to body language expression things that I want you know
Want it to a lot of things that look like a you know look real and they are real they do have some some direction and curation it curation to it and I think one of my superpowers is being able to bring that out of people in a
Way that is like very detailed and so yeah that is one of the things that I I’m maybe maybe too fixated on sometimes no that’s your style that’s where you get you were looking for an end result if you didn’t have a vision then you’re overdoing it right but I think you I
Think when you overdo something it’s when you don’t have a clear goal and you’re just constantly working it hoping something works out but if you have a clear idea result in your head and you’re going no no bend the fingertip a little bit like this I’m a little bit
Like that too I like it to be a little off I like things to be a little I mean I just showed you the mascara tier girl like I want things to be tragic and they can’t be too curated but when when you’re it’s really interesting when people are shooting while you’re
Explaining this you can see them going like oh I didn’t think about it like that oh I’m too stuck on you need this bouquet or something like they they they’re all the YouTube buzzwords all the clicky stuff but you’re kind of going like take a breath and look at our
Hands I get it her face looks great look at her hands I was very interesting watching new work like and a crowd of people too because you you were like reaching over a crowd of people and all you see is this hat and this hair and
She’s like because I that’s how I spot you in a crowd is the Hat it’s the Hat big hair big hair I was expecting a hat today I was going to have a whole repertoire on hat here wasn’t going to happen there didn’t bring the didn’t
Wear hat Brad is Right body language is key because no one’s talking in an image that image is the language that’s so true yeah everything we put in a frame is a word and a sentence and it’s got to make sense at the end because no one’s reading your caption don’t worry about
You know body language expression and um come on Charles you dropping stuff I need yeah you guys don’t know stealing we’ll get you on here one day we’ll get you on one hi Adama community at work guys so um as far as industry goes because we did the 7 R5 release uh how
Long have you been in the Artisan program and what did you aim for that did it just happen how’d you go for that so I I it’s not something that I set out to do or be um they just grabbed you by the hand and said come with us and sort
Of no so I’ve been in the program for four years and very proud to be a part of the Sony family and I think my journey with Sony is a testimony to you know there are people who are working on your behalf sometimes s that you’re not even aware of people noticing
You that you’re not aware of so I you know I I honestly believe that me being in the Artisan program is the result of one you know like just doing the work put you know doing the work focusing on Def you know having your your doing
Your work and having the you know your defining style and also you’re that people there are people who are rooting for you and I you know it’s the result of honestly I think people floating my names in spaces I wasn’t aware of okay so that’s what got me here um and you
Know it’s been um so far beautiful experience it’s a very uh supportive Community very you a lot of initiatives that are exciting I love the gear we all love the gear love the gear all gear is good gear all it’s so yeah you know that’s I got here no I think it’s all
It’s a one of the things I think people don’t take for granted is people talking about you and what you’re doing when you’re not there and what I mean by that is your impact right and uh that’s one of the reasons I go to the trade show so
Much because we do all these videos we throw them to a void 20,000 views but you got like 40 comments well what happened to the other 20,000 people that watched right and when they come back to you and they they quote something or talk about an images shot that you
Forgot about and you’re like what right that’s when I think you really realize you know what maybe I’m not wasting my life oh my gosh oh Eric bird this guy comes to everything here Eric you coming by later cuz at 5:00 P pm. we got Ana Auntie going live with uh some editing
Right here at the space so you guys welcome to come to that a lot of Cannon Shooters in in the uh where people I saw Miguel up there camera is fantastic yeah you just got to find what works for you it’s not really a brand thing it’s more
About what interface drives with what the way you work and what image result like some different color tones different all sorts of stuff it’s it’s I think that’s kind of the fun of the journey is also fing the equipment that speaks with you yes it can get expensive
And get frustrating but now you can go to a store get in your hand take some shots feel how the buttons are feel nothing’s worse than a tool that makes you not want to do what you’re trying to do when it has when there’s a camera
That makes you want to pick it up and you don’t even think about and you’re just doing what you want to do H H yeah especially on a wedding day forget it you want to you want to be able to create without having to be too caught
Up in the mechanics of what you’re doing you want to be able to like I feel like that’s where the focus should be is on being able to to create your work and you having the tools that make it possible right or make it you know
Efficient or you know ex help you to execute what you want to execute less of a Divide from what you’re trying to get you know I’ve seen a lot of people in these chairs give up after a while because they just didn’t have tools that were making sense for the way they think
And it’s just really interesting to watch people like try something and all a sudden two years later they come back what happened well you know this thing May things easier for me there’s a lot of like imposition like there’s a lot of people out there telling you what you
Should be using and what you should be doing and and so it’s very easy to get caught up in there and it’s not serving you so you need to really figure out what tools you need to create your work yeah and you know a lot of it is just
Noise because a lot of people aren’t sure about opinions for themselves and they’ll just absorb opinions that seem to be popular out there because it’s just every YouTube thumbnail saying the same thing well then that’s what I believe it’s like no no no take a breath
And find out for yourself uh one of the things I want to touch on cuz we’re like flying here Trends in weddings right do you chase Trends do you try to create your own Trend cuz I think that’s the toughest part is like or do you just do
What you’re going to do and if it becomes a trend you start telling people like I did it first I I I don’t I don’t ever I don’t think about Trends and I don’t claim Trends even if I see something that you know I actually I
Can’t even I couldn’t even tell I don’t so Trends me thinking about them are not a part of my process okay I will say but the the clients that I serve they’re very very much Trends are very much on their radar but I think I I would split
It down the middle I attract a lot of people who are similar mindset who are they’re the trend setters okay um in that they’re not thinking about Trends they’re doing their thing they they want to do their thing and then I have people in the camp that are
Like you did this this this wedding or like this this color is the it color or doing these you know like recently it was like which I which which was a trend that I like there was this recent Trend where you know table shots which is the
Bane of my existence I I don’t love they’re important but I don’t you know like the couple your husband come on you get overhead get no but I just feel like it pulls a couple away it’s important because these people came people the guest came to celebrate you but they’re
Going from table to table it’s very timec consuming so there was this trend where people were doing them um you had you had until the length of a song it was like a race for them to get to as many tables as possible and they had to
Do any kind of cookie thing or fun thing or formal thing at each table but they had they picked a song and by the time that song the goal was to be at have gotten a picture with every table so this thing sounds like double dare yeah
It was fun so those kind of Trends are cool but I think couples will come to you they’re very aware and there’s a lot of you know I I split it down the middle there’s a lot of wanting to emulate the things that they and sometimes it
Benefits me and that like you know if for example there’s something trending that my portfolio fits with I’ll benefit from it or it’ll become a drag because I’m getting lots and lots of requests to do this specific thing that’s not really you’re driving with right um so there’s
A lot of weird Trends in wedding because it’s mainly driven by people who don’t shoot yeah so they see things like you like this and you kind of got to understand where they’re coming from but so I mean I’m of the mind that that yes
I want to create I want to do what I do but also I am providing a service so if a couple really wants something I’m not saying I wouldn’t do it for them course I’m gonna do it I won’t show it you enjoy it well there’s a question that CH
Had from Eric he’s like how do you get clients I mean I think this is he has this every time because he’s really trying to get himself out there I love it but you’re talking to someone who’s got a great Client List so let’s let’s
Hear it what’s your take sure so this is going to be a probably a boring possibly disappointing answer or maybe very helpful I don’t know but um I think my my biggest lead refer and the and and in terms of having the highest close rate so the people are are are relationship
Driven referrals so and this and I’m talking authentic real relationships so this is like other vendors that I’ve worked with people who I know like if I’ve done for example a big lead source for me are like um Greek weddings so like my people no not your people Greek as in the sororities
And not your people but as in like AKA Del aka’s Delta like the like so the Frat fraternities and sororities so like you know when you have relationships with individual people those connections those are big um and they’re the best quality leads so people you you you have
A connection with and you can foster those kind of Rel I could do a whole thing piece on this but those relationships even if you don’t have them you can acquire them in a way that is a very quality relationship but that’s a conversation for another day
Okay and then um another uh important kind of thing that I you know people find me through blind Google searches nice and um they also find me through social so Tik Tok Instagram or but they find you like by location based like they’re trying to find it on Google like
Location wise so yes so one of the things and I I would like to who was it he is the organizer behind a conference I don’t know if you remember Mystic seminars no okay so he was his name is Walter his name is Walter I don’t know
How his was forgive me he’s still here I I’m actually not in touch with him anymore but he’s the one who recommend that I do this and I think it’s been very helpful for me which is basically tagging creating hyperlinks to venu specific venues um types of
Weddings genre of weddings like if you look at the bottom of my w website I have ton of hyperlinks to blog posts so for example if somebody’s getting married at chipan they can click on the link and go see every wedding that or not every wedding but see weddings that
I’ve done at that venue nice I and so I’m still blogging and keywording and things like that so I think I’m not an SEO Queen at all um don’t know a ton about it but I spend a lot of time you know like um kind of working on my back
End when it comes to blogging and then I created those links so that is I think why people find me through searches okay um and I do a lot of you know Niche keywording and stuff like that so what ends up happening I will say my close
Rate is like in when I say close rate people who actually end up booking who find me that way is lower than the people who find me through relationships I was just talking about this with a friend people choose you with people work because of emotion because of
Convenience like oh you’ve done the wedding at this place because of a sense of you’re trustworthy oh my 1800 my you know my cousin and my auntie and my cooworker used you so when it comes to weddings in particular those relationships are the best quality leads because they’re trusting you they’re
Giving you big money for future dated service and there’s a lot of trust involved in that so those are better like if somebody finds me that way they’re going to book yeah I think it’s just tough when you’re starting because they they have to you have to build
Those relationships to vouch for you that’s the toughest thing so you have to be patient with that process there are other ways to get work in the meantime it definitely is like planting a seed that’s going to be fruit years you know sometimes months later but you have a
Network when you’re starting we all we’re doing people work you have people yeah we all have people and and you kind of have to look at the peripheral so I actually dated a girl who did a bunch of shots for restaurants and they ended up booking weddings and referring her as
The photographer or she shot for AOW shop once and it led to like years of just endless referrals I was like man she’s crushing it I don’t know where you are right now but whatever but I mean you have to think a little outside of just this what else
Exists to drive into this when I shot for the makeup industry I did a lot of product packaging stuff which then led to other things right so you got to kind of think of peripheral to get into the core of things sometimes I think almost
Any like area of focus that you do in photography those relationships but especially in personal work but any area those relationships will get you a better uh quality of like client referral and a better and it’s like it’s a branch that’s going to Branch out you know because of that relationship tie
And yes in the beginning you’re going to have to be patient with the process of growing growing it yeah yeah it doesn’t happen overnight and you know you also got to be out there opportunities are created by you you know so if you’re just cool with that DJ at that wedding
That you got that one wedding you booked they’re going to remember you get them that extra plate to dinner you like yeah no seriously though seriously like listen we remember you know I think people were even for me as a photographer with other vendors I know
That like Flores you know people who had their hands in the wedding they can’t get portfolio work of the wedding they can’t take pictures of their work that was a part of the wedding so one of the things that I do and I think a lot of photographers do is share photos with
The vendors like you can pull photos relevant to those vendors they appreciate that those are little things little gestures that are easy that people like oh this photographer hooked me up like you know um but just little things like that I think or even just you know yes you’re there for the couple
You’re there for the client but you know maybe I’ll get a really cool vantage point of the you know the favors or whatever because you know I know you know that vendor will appreciate it things little things like that people really appreciate yeah and you got to
Remember a lot of things that we shoot are gone after that day so having a docu they don’t want just their phone photo sometimes you know I think venues are constantly looking for every type of event that happened there so they can show an example and that people can
Visualize and go you know what I could have my thing here you know so oh yeah so and that’s the other thing so venues do request they’re aware like they will request if they can share a photo on social and stuff like that give it to
Them yeah no it’s crazy a ton of people find me on a venue like a venues Instagram page oh sure oh forget it I I’m totally believe that so you know just just look at the peripherals what I I would say um before we jump out of
Here I do want to talk about WPI because we’re both going to be there yes uh you are doing a photo walk I am doing a photo walk uh it’s an engagement photo walk be editorial engagement so it’s just going to be like storytelling beautiful approach to engagement
Portraits so I love doing stuff like that we get to see me do some of that those nuanced directing of body language and facial Expressions yeah the photo walks are interesting I do my walks differently at WPI I I I walk them three whole inches and I sit them down and I
Pull out a travel monitor I’m not kidding you and I just do a demo oh I don’t really like Photo walks and I’m going to be you guys can hate me I don’t care so you don’t encourage people to shoot no because I’ve watched photo walks where people spend an hour not
Knowing how it was set up can’t recreate it get two shots for five minutes and then stand around waiting gawking and then they go to somewhere else and do it another 3 minutes and then they leave there and you ask them what they got out of it they go maybe something from my
Instagram but if you give them a demo and go now you’ve got the entire rest of this show to go shoot something you’ll test what you just learned I love that I love that I will say that when I do a photo walk I tell people that taking
Pictures is optional like I love the person who attends the photo walk and observes that’s smart um and I think it’s important to come to especially if the cuz the walks get large if they well that’s okay first of all if you Fe a 50 person walk it’s way are you kidding me
Like what are you doing hang out don’t don’t try to yeah don’t go and shoot if you didn’t sign up for that class you are inhibiting everyone yeah all right I I hate to be like this but those WPI walks turn into like army ants everywhere and you’re like no one’s
Getting anything out of this and the model’s like this and they come back traumatized we got to give them a blanket right we’re putting them in so I’ve never done a photo walk for wppi really no I’ve done um platforms are I like platforms yeah I’ve so this will be
My first time doing a photo walk for wppi I did not know they get beat I knew they were larger but they just like a magnet they just like they like got static electricity that people and they like how did I just turn around there’s 30 people there’s 12 people on my list
Chill out if you’re going to do that try to be respectful to people who actually signed up for those walks um but the demos I think people get way more out of them you can answer corre questions directly and be like oh you’re trying to
Do this well let’s go do it and I just do it in front of them and they go click click click click click click and they get it you know I just did the demo at Imaging and I you know you got 700 people staring at you no one wants to
Shoot they’re absorbing and then the next day I’m watching mascara tier girls everywhere like people trying yeah it was really cool watching testing out what they dude that’s cuz how can you that goes back like you it’s hard in that period of time that you have to
Like get to test while you’re learning you know oh yeah need more time at a trade show if I see by the end of the trade show people shooting with pizza box reflectors I know it made a difference in this industry so but it really um you have to find the way you
Also learn a lot of people want to sit and watch videos some people need to go do it while they’re being while someone’s next to them so you have to find the format that works for you and it also same thing for us as instructors
If a demo makes more sense to you than a walk but I think sometimes you get a shot someone shows to you and you can work with that one person the problem is you got 50 people that show on the walk at the same time so it’s it’s tough it’s
Tough but the shows I think everybody that’s trying to do this for real should at least go to something at least once and see what the community is yes it’s an incredible experience I remember I was not a very much big into attending conferences way back when like but now
You’re a rockar and like oh to them not not not only go there but I’m speaking at them yeah but like wppi was one of my first like big it was probably my first big conference experience like big and I went once and I think this happens with
A lot of photographers you go once and you don’t stop going you always you want to come back it’s really incred incredible to like meet you know meet people that like you’ve only seen on the internet and to learn from people you admire or whose work you you know is
Inspir inspires you and it’s yeah and you’re not alone you get to actually because I think as photographers we get like this we get very isolated and you know you’re throwing work out there like messages in a bottle hoping it’ll go somewhere but only your mom hit liked
Right so you got to figure out like what else is out there or just hearing different point of views instead of the same three pieces of gear you see push constant everybody using it or the same Styles or you see it in front of your
Face and you go oh it’s not like that my what I appreciate most are like the business education component because that’s one of the things that we want to learn how you know photographers we care about the the art and all that stuff but you learn about things that you can
Apply to like make money right right and which is my worst part of my game honestly my whole career has been what do you want to shoot how much cool um I’m free and that’s my whole business model which I know I’ve lost a lot of
Money I told you I’ve signed a lot of bad deals I’ve lost a lot of rights to images just to get the rent that time I’m sure you’re not alone that some of the things I’ve seen people ask me to sign I’m just like wow yeah but you know
What though you think that’s how it goes you think like cool I got through this one what I’m getting a dollar awesome like you don’t there’s a point I’m giving you everything I’m signing over my you don’t and sometime you got to grow up and actually see how this is
Done by the reality of the industry also it helps our industry be protected as far as people not getting over on us and us being able to that next lens that next camera to feed yourself to retire right you know Insurance crazy idea right but you know
We have to protect this as a profession as an industry and as a community so without the community there is no industry just and you guys are this community you know um whoa you guys said a bunch of stuff uh I like to get set to
Get behind decks and teaching no I am not doing decks um teach okay de you’re not going to do I do not understand PowerPoint it will never happen uh but listen I think you know part of the way people have to teach is the way it makes
Sense for them as well so they can relay it genuinely if you put me behind a Podium and a and a PowerPoint you’re getting the worst version of myself you will ever find I can’t show you a Google graph and stuff no give me a camera let’s get sweaty and figure out how
We’re going to get this shot it’s l that’s great that you know what your teaching style is and what you do where so do you you you just said it are you kidding me I think self aware but I think you have a different you have a
Lot of aspects to it cuz you’re you’re also showing a business side and I think you also have um especially with the lawyer background you can actually help some photographers like really gear them to protect themselves and read contracts read them yep read I should show you some of these contracts you somebody
Mentioned um oh model release but read those venue the wedding venues they ask they uh send out some things for us the vendors to sign I’ve come across some interesting ones really yeah like you can’t share or something or no they own the rights no no like not not only like
Absol you know release liability kind of stuff and um and um things that like basically we shouldn’t be signing because not just the the liab the liability part is fine but like when you’re assuming responsibility for things that don’t fall under your umbrella that’s nuts that you know you
Got to just make sure you read what you sign because I think a lot of times people sign them in autopilot um just just CU it’s like they got a job right which is yeah what happened to me over the years anyway happens it happens oh
My god listen guys if you guys want you can check out Kesha’s work right there on Instagram go ahead follow she loves 10 tons of DMS and every question you ever think about just ask her DMs I do no I know she she’s chill she’s chill but go ahead and follow it’s really
Beautiful work and you can stay up on what’s going on in her world and also if you’re going to be at WP we’re both doing walks yes so you can sign up for I’m doing a workshop also oh what what day um on March 6th so it’s um it’s it’s
Centered around just one part of the wedding day the getting ready part so just going over like you know capturing real moments styled Bridal rope shots and and details like uh doing detail shots so that that’s one of my favorite parts of the wedding day so that’s
Important and I think a lot of people don’t get that you usually get like the the same shot of the bride and groom going like this yeah did you guys learn how to do this yet you can’t be weding phead bump they have to share a thought telepathically or they can’t get married
I want to know what like I say like what’s the divorce shot that like are they ripping their minds apart it’s like Days of Future Past like but anyway guys um later today at 5 p.m uh Anan is going to be here editing live and that’s going
To be on the adom venge Channel if you’re not following that channel you’re missing out that’s what happens in here at events right here on YouTube check out kesh’s work check us both out at wppi we’ll be doing something else we always pull you in at some point if
You’re not busy she’s like um I always got time yeah now she’s chill and uh you know keep up on this channel because we got a lot of stuff coming out all the time if you’re new here go ahead and subscribe don’t forget toit like she
Feeds her family on likes so hit the like button the only way and these are teenagers they they need lots of Life they need so much validation please help my children oh my God I can’t thank you guys enough and if you’re new to this series there’s 15 episodes of this so
Far so do yourself a favor and check the backlog of it but thank you so much for being part of this I really this fun I don’t think we’ve actually sat down for like like ever no like ever like really but it’s cool anyway guys thank you so
Much for joining us we will see you on the next one I what’s oh next week’s Valentine’s I should add you on Valentine’s but my Miss opportunity my Valentine’s gonna be David Bergman we’re gonna we’re gonna be uh Valentine’s I guess I don’t know about love talking
About nerd stuff guys thank you so much enjoy the rest of your day we will see you
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