I don’t think there could be a more important time than this uh to have this discussion um there were many streams in our freedom struggle U they deferred in in terms of the you know the means of struggle there was nonviolent struggle by led by Mahatma Gandhi there
Were Radical left uh streams in the struggle uh best symbolized by bhat Singh uh there was uh the Indi National Army of subash Chandra BOS there was Dr ambedkar whose Central stress was on radical equality but if there was one thing that all of them agreed upon they
Deferred on means but they agreed on the India that we would build when we would be free and and that idea was what that India would be one a country where people of various religious identities and specifically Muslims because of the whole history of partition um all people of all religious
Identities would have equal rights in every way as equal citizens it would not matter which God you worship or if you worship no God uh it would not matter what your what language you spoke about your cast your gender your identity your your your wealth in every respect you
Would be an equal citizen in every way and I think in in very um you know this idea is what I would call the idea of secular democracy and I agree very much with Zoya that these are you know the ideas of secularism and the idea of democracy are inextricably tied together
In a country that has such high vast religious uh diversity this idea is uh as I said is Central to what I what we describe as secular democracy one can argue that that this idea is in in fact at the soul of the Indian constitution it is also
The foundational idea of the free Indian nation and uh as Zoya said so and and this is not an idea simply imported from the West instead I believe it incorporates a distillation of what is bested in India’s own civilizational Traditions the India of Buddha kabi
Nanak of the Sufi Sufi and bti Saints of ambedkar and Gandhi India’s idea of secularism incorporates within it ideas of religious freedom and its limits the place of and the relationship of religion in and with the state but also and I I wanted to underline that in my
Presentation it also Bears very strongly on the Notions of citizenship and belonging Who belongs who does not belong and who belongs on what terms in this uh vast diverse country and you know this idea of equal belonging what I would describe uh for me secularism first of all guarantees
Equal belonging to all with no conditionalities you don’t have to you know I was in Germany for for many months and it’s a country which is quite remarkably has tried to deal with uh with its Legacy of or or or of the Holocaust and all that happened but with
All of it it still retains the idea that if people are coming from outside if they want to belong to this country they must learn the German language they must respect the German culture religion way of life and and and I realized how important our notion at its best was and
That notion is truly that you this is a country we would build where you would be free to be yourself to Worship in the way that you choose or not choose speak the language just uh eat um sing and because of sexual minorities and you know so- called honor
Kings love in the way that you choose no conditionalities each of you will belong equally to this country that is to my mind at the heart of of the secular idea uh I um I was fortunate to spend my uh Early Childhood in in arunachal Pradesh which was mea my
Father was an administrator there and I used to see there were their communities were just 200 people in the whole world who speak a certain language and and have a certain way of life and for me the beautiful idea of India is that those 200 people belong equally with their language and with
Their way of life and they are you know they belong uh to this country without so so I I would say for me secularism is first the idea of equal belonging without conditionalities of any kind of difference to the majority religion culture and way of life but having said that this is uh
This is this this belonging without conditionalities is and I will contradict myself is is Not Without Limits just that the limits are not imposed by the majority religion or culture it is you know like in Germany 25% of ger Germany is now a figrin populations and much of them of Muslim
Identity if I would say is Islam part of German culture people would actually fall off their chairs in sort of consternation our idea was yes the 200 people in arunachal Pradesh following their way of life are part of Indian culture Islam Christianity uh the various you know Buddhism
Sikhism all and all its various various diversities are are part of our uh Freedom a part of our our uh national identity but there are limits the limits are not of majoritarianism the majoritarian uh culture and religion and values the the limits are set by the Constitution and
Its morality and that’s why I’m happy that we started our first discussion about what is constitutional morality I recall uh you know a very beautiful uh judgment uh uh by the Delhi High Court Justice iisha and Justice murar on the question of the you know section 370 and it was an interesting moment
Because people of every religious identity uh which was represented and largely by men all of them were United I’ve never seen them United on anything else except that homosexuality uh is against our religion and culture and what the two judges said is that you have the freedom in this
Country to follow your personal Bel beliefs but those personal beliefs are subordinate to the higher morality of the Constitution the Constitution gives us you know decrees uh equality uh article 14 that n spoke about and therefore uh uh your so the state you know I I wanted to also
Underline that the state in my understanding is new neutral to religion is only part of the story the state is neutral but it but it’s not hands off religion I believe that uh that the secular idea places not just the right but the duty of the State uh to um to intervene
Where religious belief contravenes uh constitutional morality and that’s why untouchability is uncons tion that’s why women must have equal rights and on this one point I do gently disagree with n’s position I do feel gender equality reform of religion for gender equality
Is is is part of the duty uh uh in in my imagination of of secularism uh so um there was another question I think uh and and and uh when I said our secular idea is is derived from a distillation of what is finest in our in our uh in our philosophical and
Civilizational traditions one of these is what Amara sen in the argumentative Indian talks about he says one of the you know the richest ideas that we have in our philosophical traditions is doubt is the absence of certainty and and and how important I mean so I I
Believe in something but I admit that I could be wrong and only when I can do that and I respect your way of life and your beliefs as equally legitimate and I think that is also Central I mean he a quotes uh the rig which is a description a beautiful
Description uh through many many verses of how the universe was created something like the Book of Genesis but what is the last verse in the rig after you’ve described all of this you say but who knows whether the universe is actually created this way I don’t know
You don’t know only God knows but maybe even God doesn’t know and then you leave it at that and I think that yes the secular idea also incorporates the acceptance of of the absence of certainty that there is no final uh belief that must you know superintend uh supersede every other
Except the beliefs that we have sat together and written into our Constitution and into its morality um the notion of vev K the world is my family including uh both uh uh not just other humans however diverse but also the non-human and in fact the non-living world
And uh and with all of these uh I’ve said for me secularism is is the idea of belonging without con conditionalities it is the acceptance collectively of the higher morality of of constitutional morality while I have the freedom to follow my own ways of life it is the duty of the state to
Remain neutral between religions but to intervene where religious belief contravenes uh con tion morality and the last idea that I want to bring in is uh you know for me for my idea my understanding of secularism it is the idea of fraternity uh which is written to the
Constitution Dr edar actually said out of the four pillars this is the most fundamental of all pillars fraternity is a problematic word because it means Brotherhood it leaves out Sisterhood and and and and other genders but the the Hindi word for in the Constitution uh for Fraternity is a very beautiful one
Which is bandhuta uh B is derived from s which literally means we are bound to and with each other we might have different languages religions ways of life uh we might be different in every other way but yet we are bound to and with each other and
That is what is binding us we’re not together because we are the same we bound together because we respect each others in all our in our different uh ways of life um that uh there many sibling ideas of fraternity uh like solidarity like egalitarian compassion I’d like to say
Gity in compassion it’s not a compassion that you are here and I’m here and I’m giving you compassion but that we two human beings meeting each other and you have suffered great pain and I’m there to share it and but tomorrow you can share share my pain it’s the idea of
Caring and know chsky actually put it very well it’s the idea it’s just the idea what is the basis of us living together what should be the basis is the idea that we should take care of each other I remember when the food Security Act was being
Debated um and I was trying to argue for it you know and there was so much anger and I couldn’t understand and finally one person a rich indust she said uh uh why should I be taxed to feed the poor and I realized that yes and the
Answer is because we must take care of each other and that is the idea of secular democracy for me at its most it is the idea of radical love love with immense courage of the kind that Gandhi g showed in the last months of his life when you
Know the country had been torn apart Etc one last and and finally for me the idea of of of secularism and of fraternity of bandhuta is the idea that if they if if there chains on your feet I feel my freedom has been taken away from me uh
If if somebody is lashing your back if somebody’s lashing your back I feel the pain on mine uh if you you know if your daughter has been gang raped it is as my daughter has been gang raped that you know it is that idea when you
And pain tears well up in my eyes it is that idea to my mind which is which is uh which is at the core of the secular idea of thank [Applause] you
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