Embracing the Symbols and Secrets that Shape Masonic Philosophy

Hey Chris yeah Fred what’s a Mason that’s a really good question Fred you’ve reached the internet’s home for all things masonry join Chris and I as we Plum the depths of our ancient craft from the common gavel to the trout nothing is off the table so grab your tools and let’s get to work this is on the

Level well well once again uh my brother Chris we are back yeah oh sorry if I woke you up there the meters went all the way to 11 on that one wow we back baby I love it I love it now first and foremost I must explain uh

To the audience and to you my brother uh my voice is not 100% I’m not sure what happened I’ve been doing a little bit of uh uh holistic cleansing I’ve been doing uh some poop some lotion no no no no no this is more of a lung and sinus

Cleansing using L um using uh milk fle extract uh and a couple of other things um to cleanse out um anyway H you you know me I’m a bit of a health nut so uh there’s an episode of Friends where uh Phoebe gets a horrible cold and she can

Finally sing oh is that right seen that one no she sounds just like you and she gets on the mic and it’s all raspy and like and uh she can’t sing for crap so when she gets better no one likes her singing again so she’s constantly trying to get

Sick she’s like let me lick that off the floor maybe you should try singing for us uh no ah I keep trying guys he just won’t take the bait I someday um I do sing and I do play guitar but not here and certainly not now oh you will but

I’m using my my my my voice voice voice today hey sound like a uh Ruffian sound like a Ruffian that’s right hey uh so anyway um my apologies I’ll do the best I can I’m going to keep the tones low and slow and that way I’ll try to keep it high the

Counter yeah no no cracking voices uh today well brother um we’re receiving lots of cards and letters that’s a euphemism for emails I haven’t seen a card but I haven’t seen a card or a letter in 20 years uh but um and uh I’m really thankful for it I was going

Through a couple of them we are definitely going to do uh a segment in the new season where we read a couple of comments and emails and kind of answer them uh good bad or indifferent the negative ones will always go first because uh we we want your feedback um

And we are not afraid of anything uh negative or disagreements as long as they’re presented with uh gentleness and respect we get it sometimes yeah yeah um but we also will read U the encouraging ones because there’s lots of them um and again overwhelmingly um people are

Telling us the esoteric teachings um are what you guys want um and it’s it’s great for us to kind of frame the show around uh those teachings um it really helps me and I think we could just go deeper and deeper man there’s it’s an endless pool of information out there so

We’ll just we’ll just keep that build the show around that we have to throw some surprises in we can’t let them just they know who we are all the time there has to be an element of mystery and surprise always element of mystery and danger what might they say what the heck

Might they be talking about that’s what you got to huh I wonder I remember that one time they got arrested on the air whatever crazy stuff happen yes for stealing the statue of uh Bob’s at Bob’s Big Boy oh and the people out there probably don’t know where Bob Bob’s Big

Boy is a restaurant in Southern California is it a burger place no it’s it’s a sit down restaurant and there’s a famous little car cartoon character statue that’s out front of it it’s a little boy holding a plate up of like a waiter with a hamburger on it so I

Believe there was an Austin Power movie yeah right the big boy was like a spaceship of some something like that yeah um well these two DJs um uh Mark and Brian uh on Kos Los Angeles stole one and tried to put it on top of the Capitol Records building and they got

Arrested and they turned it in into a whole show oh my God and it was hilarious man those two when it came to on air DJ Antics they were they were the ogs man those guys were nuts I don’t know if I’d steal something for the show

But no we probably won’t be stealing stat I’ll drive the car if you feel so inclined no I don’t know I don’t think that’s Masonic brother I’m just saying no it’s not theft and uh vandalism probably not going to be our our way I’d have to say you’re right yeah you know

Um I just I’m fresh off of 6 hour sleep because last night um I got invited to Phoenix Lodge to do senior Deacon and the fellowcraft lecture my apologies gentlemen I did not make that oh man they uh got special dispensation to do the entire degree by candle light so

They probably had I would guess close to a hundred tiny little candles all over the lotch and then I brought my space projector and the whole ceiling was projecting space with the candle light kidding me and they had uh they had the lanterns so all the officers had

Lanterns and whenever we walked we’d hold the lantern out in front of us and uh they did this cool little bit that’s not part of the ritual but they got dispensation from the Grand Lodge to do it where they uh set the Lodge at ease

So it’s open at that point you can do whatever it’s not necessarily part of the ritual you’re not changing anything and we all did Like A procession inside the Lodge room with our lanterns and uh took our stations and the master comes up and holds the light as he goes around

The whole Lodge to check each officer make sure he knows who they are and then he sits down it was well done who who was worshipful master uh worshipful Roland Yates wow how cool was that it was a past master’s degree so they had all their big shots out there I don’t

Know how I missed that it was in pretty I’m sorry you missed it uh I’m sure you had fun no it’s it it’s my fault I mean it’s it’s on the calendar out there I mean the information is available I just don’t I had I known I certainly would

Have been there see Fred is too big of celebrity his C his calendar is overloaded now with Masonic things he doesn’t know what to do where to go he needs a we have we’re going to hire a Handler to just take him places and give

Him Q cards and be like just go up there and say that all right now get in the car get in the car we got to go to the next place that’s right a personal assistant that’s right a Handler a Handler oh is that what we called them

Now a Handler that person’s going to have their hands full now last night uh was my one of my sons one of my four Sons birthday um and uh yes 3 36 wow and so we went over to the shrine had a couple of premium cigars and some premium whiskies and uh didn’t

Realize it was Thursday night and at The Shrine they have the Queen of Hearts um drawing that they do there and the place was packed there had to be 200 people there I mean there was no room at the end I I mean it was absolutely packed um

And it was a great time man I really like it it’s really cool over there man they’re doing a great job I I hope for those of you listening I hope you’ve got a really active Shrine uh in in your area because it’s indispensable man for Gathering and ours they built a giant

Tiki Hut of course this is Florida so there’s a tiki hut on every corner right next to the Starbucks uh but um they built a big Tiki Hut they’ve got a restaurant it’s got pretty good food and it’s just it’s just in a well established location it’s been there

Since uh I think 81 if I’m not mistaken 1980 I think it was built been there a long time what’s incredible about it is they had been losing lots of money year after there were some bad times and I think they were probably were on the verge of considering selling that

Building uh which is just in a great location in Sarasota and um yeah the last couple years the potentates and their officers have really I mean they had the idea for the Tiki Hut to try to pick up you know they basically got a a restaurant bar in

Order to try to help pay the bills because the dudes just weren’t cutting it anymore not even close uh and they were losing money on that too but they made a smart decision of hiring an actual restaurant tour shout outm Tommy Tommy uh a multi-year agreement and over

The last two years they have 100% 180 turned that thing around I think they’re actually making money they are making money that is correct yeah it’s just popping and the shrine itself is getting more involved in our district y they’re hosting our grandmaster’s visits they work with the Master Mason Association

To arrange that uh so I’m just so excited to be active in masonry while all this is happening I age I agree great times here it’s a good time to be a Mason man yeah and I was able to um as I was sitting there one of my son’s

Buddies who came by um a guy from Jersey another fellow guy from Jersey but anyway um this pretty young kid um he’s he saw my ring and uh and he asked me he said so you’re are you a Mason and I said yeah and I’m

I’m also a Shriner and he’s like wow so I’ve I’ve been wanting to get into masonry and I was like really so uh he’s coming down to the next open house we’re going to sit and talk a little bit aw and do a do a little bit of stuff and

What I didn’t do and what I’m my two two sons that live here in Sarasota um both of them you know are in their in their mid-30s uh and um I don’t say they know I’m a ma a Mason they know they know how much I love it and enjoy

It they know I’m a Shriner but I’ve said nothing yeah by way of recruitment but they keep asking these these intuitive little questions here and there so I’m I’m I’m just throwing the line out yeah yeah and just slowly dragging it back you know so hopefully they’re gonna

They’re going to pop I would say my one son Troy would probably uh want to become a Mason before my other son Eric would but uh we’ll see we’ll see I said that on air to see how see how well I know my kids we’ll see how it goes um

They both listen okay yeah they’re both out there listening and listening they’ll definitely become Masons yeah this will hook them let let me rephrase that they both tell me they listen so I guess we’ll find out if if they listen then they’ll hear this and they’ll call

Me up and say hey man I listen no one in my family listens not my wife not my kids nobody yeah my my wife listens if I tell her hey you should listen to this particular one then she’ll listen but as regularly she does not listen although she has in

Fact she’s she’s a subscriber to it but doesn’t necessarily you know listen to all which is fine uh you know hey some we’re we’re growing I mean we’re what are we now at 6,500 uh downloads close to something like that and it’s growing more and more uh and the the YouTube uh Channel’s

Beginning to get subscribers as well so that’s that’s pretty exciting and again we keep pounding it but it’s true we we are going to do more uh in next season we’ve got some new technology that we purchased uh that we’re going to use and uh yes the advertisements um

That you guys hear in the middle of the um in the middle of our show that’s actually paying us um to do the show so some of the costs that we’ve been footing have been have been wiped out which is nice so we’re not paying any

Right any money to do this which has always been the kind of the goal we’re not trying to make money on it but we don’t want to have to sh shell money out every week either because it can get very expensive oh yeah so yeah so that’s

Um kind of an update by way of update um I do want to I do want to mention that we did get uh some comments about the last um podcast and I just want to briefly mention um and I’m not going to mention who gave us uh just I’m not who

It was but um well the comment was about the uh the Ruffians and uh this person this person’s disagreement was is that we’re not born as Ruffians well this is somebody that likes to argue semantics agree agree yeah he does he gets hung up on words that’s correct I

Don’t know he’s a good brother and we love him but I’m sure and and it’s always good because you get uh the the more somebody U questions things or even disagrees the more conversation has to happen around the topic so who’s winning everybody everybody’s winning as long as

You keep it clean above the board and don’t insult each other it’s awesome and when I go back and I think about my comments about um being um you know that the Ruffian is in all of us um yeah I for me and I’ve said this before

Everybody knows this uh that comes from my worldview which is I am a Christian and from a Christian perspective we hold to a doctrine of you know that that original original sin yes I said it out loud and we hold to that doctr so the Ruffian in my faith tradition represents

That man that old man that I was born with you know the one who does not who has to be taught to do right you know I have to be taught to do right it doesn’t come natural to me there is outside influences that come to me and teach me

Right and wrong there is a law to be followed there is a a thing to you know a uh there is morality there is right and wrong and we don’t by Nature follow it well those comments about the Ruffians that came out of my my worldview you may have a different

Worldview out there and we’ve been very big in this podcast about the fact that masonry is not a religion uh but it is made up of religious people who bring their faith Traditions to it and masonry is a framework um that should when understood correctly send you back to

Your faith tradition as a better as a better man as a smarter man as a more open man so it has for me um I’m certainly uh digging deeper into my relationship with with my church uh and my faith and it’s it’s and and my desire

To do what is right M if masonry is a lot of things but one thing it certainly is is it is a system of morality man it it really is it it it wants us to live good lives and there is a standard to to

Be lived you know I right so sure it’s a universal human standard of morality it’s not tied to a specific faith and that’s one of the things I love about it because we uh even uh like you represent a huge part of I think Florida masonry I

Think the majority of people have a similar background to yours correct spiritually correct that’s right yeah very much so now I’m probably in the second biggest group which is I’m not declared I don’t go to a church uh I don’t necessarily you know pray to Jesus

Or uh any other named you know person of a faith I’m more General I take a general more approach to this and say I think I believe there’s a God and uh respect that and I’m always trying to do the same thing you are like get closer to that relationship and understand

Better uh but not tied to the same doctrines you are and we’re on the same Journey we’re doing the same things and we’re improving ourselves in the same way even though we have exactly the same uh path uh spiritually and I think that’s awesome because we

Sit with brothers who are Muslims Y and uh Pagan and uh probably all kinds of other things out there that I I’m not so good with labels these days there’s a lot of them and I can’t keep up with all of them right yeah there’s I try to respect everybody’s views though yeah

That’s right Buddhists and and Muslims and and and and people who just have made a profession to deity I don’t know I guess that would be Gnostic agnostic right they I don’t know or um you know I’m not sure but I believe there is a

God but I have no idea where to go or what to do you know I’m open um which is which is okay you know it’s that it’s all okay here’s my thing is this might help them even find their path because you talk to so many different people

Something might trigger you and be like that’s really interesting I think I can I come to your church or can I come to your temple yeah that’s right you know my my faith requires me to be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks me for

The the hope that lies within me and I am prepared I know what I believe and I know why I believe it if somebody asks me about my faith because they’re interested in it I can sit down with them over coffee and I can explain it to

Them I’m I’m commanded to be ready at all times to do that and I and I am the beauty about masonry is is I get to sit down with men from all different Persuasions and together we have a common goal which is to better better ourselves in our community our families

And and our lives and you know if that ever comes up I’m I’m prepared to talk but I’m I’m not required within the walls and Halls of masonry uh to beat people over the head with my particular Faith tradition everybody knows where I stand everybody knows what I believe uh

If you don’t know what I believe just uh dig out the Westminster Confession of faith and read it that’s what I believe I mean it’s it’s it’s there but the beauty I don’t know how we got off on this the beauty in my opinion of masonry

Is that all faiths I mean so much so if you think about the founding of this country yeah and the different faith and non-face of men that came together um to to to build the founding of this nation was built in The Lodges uh in the churches and The Lodges

Of of the United States of early America it’s where it all came from that you can’t bring every single Community together within a certain denominated Church it doesn’t it just it it maybe it could work but I’ve just never seen it work uh but you can you can bring uh a

Vast amount of people from different Faith Traditions from all over the world together within a lodge and you can get something done you know and like the building uh and and framing of a Nation based on a constitutional republic which required a lot of wisdom um you know to

Put together you know was based on uh we won’t go into all where what what what it was based on but um it’s like a marriage you know these people had seen multiple form forms of government they’d seen A government controlled by a person a sectarian person right a family

Dynasty they’d seen governments controlled by religious leadership uh they’d seen it all at that point and I look at it as they had an opportunity to start fresh so they looked at all of the experiences they had and said you know what this is probably the way to go based on all

These mistakes we’ve seen right this seems like the best chance for survival of a new country it was absolute genius what they did you know they formed a system of uh of checks and balances within three branches of a of a uh of a government system they knew was going to

Become an absolute leviathon um and and based on you know a it was based on a lot of the the ancient Greek writings about democracy uh but we don’t have a pure democracy we have a constitutional republic which is based on unchanging doctrines or unchanging um uh written laws uh and

Concepts that you know the First Amendment the Second Amendment on and on all the Amendments and stuff those don’t change men change we know King George changed right it’s why we fought the Revolutionary War because he changed he he he did not follow through with the

Commitments he made he’s a king he has the right to do that we didn’t want that they formed a different idea that idea was based on individual freedom and liberty and that your rights are granted to you by God not by another man just

Because has a title of a of a of a government potentate and that concept and all of the details of how they framed it how they put it together they argued it out they hammered it out was genius it’s absolute genius and it lasted in my opinion a good 150 to 2

Almost 200 years I don’t think we have that form of government currently no and I think we’re we’re probably in for a wild ride over the next you know decade uh to see where it plays out maybe it’ll go back to where it was maybe it won’t I

Don’t know know but the point that I was making is valid the The Genius of of the the concept of the Constitution of the United States was in fact hammered out by Masons man in the Masonic lodges I I you know it’s just true you can’t deny

It so this started because you were talking about the fact that there people can be Born Ruffians so that we have Ruffians yeah that’s right that’s right I I believe that there thank you thank you we talked about that before we went on air yes thank you I’m a little slow today all

Right but yeah so so um the argument was the argument against our what what was being said on the show is that you it’s not true you can’t Ruffian never gets the word Ruffian will never be in control of anything including yourself um but that you’re saying that wasn’t

Really the point like like if you listen to the what what was being said if you listen to the show the idea of it was uh not so specifically the Ruffians as pertaining to the ritual like it’s not in the story yeah it’s true hypothetically though you know for the

Purposes of trying to use alliteration to convey a concept or idea you said the aspects of the Ruffians are inside of us all right like the bad things the bad you know the devil on your shoulder the person who’s giving you bad ideas or that leech that feeds you that negative

Thought all day you know whenever you got to do something it’s telling you you’re going to fail this is going to suck like that’s the roughing you were referencing I think yeah and if you if you doubt it um just go downstairs to where your toddlers are um and before

They can even talk look at the way they treat each other and look at how they how they no one has to FAL animals well no one has to teach them um to be selfish no no one has to teach them you know to be all about themselves and and

If you don’t there’s a great analogy um if you a little uh a uh you know a newborn baby uh you hold that child in your arms and he’s he’s laughing and giggling and he sees the necklace on your neck and he wants to grab for it

And you you push his hand away and he gets all red in the face and he tries again and he he’s he’s angry and he starts to cry and his face gets red and His Hands clench well transpose that darling little baby to a 250b man with

The same intellect as that baby that 250 lb man will kill you for that necklace he will kill you it’s in him and it’s there it’s it’s absolutely there so that’s my view come my world view um that’s a good analogy to explain my worldview it’s in us that that aspect is

In us that’s why masonry is indispensable said George Washington for the raising of young men it is absolutely indispensable for teaching young men and women but we’re a fraternity uh for teaching any human being any human society that uh to to get along in this world as a society of

People who want to be productive and safe uh and harmonious and find joy and happiness uh the the rules and laws instituted by men for the benefit of men are indispensable we have to teach them we have to learn them masonry does a good job of that we got to get some more

Of our government leadership into masonry let’s get started on that everybody yes yes that would be that would not be a bad thing they could use this that would not be a bad thing all of them especially the the Illuminati gu shout out to the Illuminati guys you

Guys got all the money man appreciate stealing my images and using them so that you can make money from unsuspecting people you’re lovely I love those guys Illuminati hey what what are we talking about today FR I have no idea well actually we’re going to go to what we always talk about

Eventually out of out of the peanut butter the peanut butter yeah peanut butter and jelly uh on a bagel peanut butter jelly time oh that that just gives me a sugar buzz like off the chart anyway uh yeah right we are just rabbit Trails after Rabbit Trail

And the rabbit trails are getting more absurd so we just talked about Bagels peanut butter and uh God and God so yeah with World Views and all of that and we ended on peanut butter good morning to you good morning hope you’re so we are in the mentor manual the revised 2008

Gl27 uh this manual is also indispens princible if you want to understand the basics of our craft you need to get this out dust it off and begin to make notes if you can see mine mine is riddled with notes and highlights all through it because we

Must know what we believe and we must know why we believe it and the only way you’re going to do that is by taking time uh to study it on your own uh without social media without YouTube actually read the material and digest it into your own life take what works and

Get rid of what doesn’t you know so anyway we are on what is it 5.5 5.22 5.22 thank you brother that’s low 12 low low 12 I’m going to read from it as we do and then we’ll just have a little conversation about it and I know

Everybody on the radio right now is probably like hurry up my God 25 minutes of this you’re killing us all right you can fast forward yeah right yeah yeah but but no don’t fast forward come on robbing yourself clever banter GE all right uh low low 12 uh

5.22 on page 24 of the mentor’s manual uh the number 12 in ancient symbolism denotes completion whether this meaning arose from the 12 signs of the zodiac or because the most stable GE geometric figure the cube has 12 distinct edges is not known the number 12 did denote a a

Thing fulfilled and was therefore an emblem of human life High 12 denoted noon when the sun was at its Zenith while low 12 denotes midnight the blackest of the night just as 13 an evil Omen follows 12 so does death follow life therefore the solemn stroke of 12

Marked the completion of human existence in this life and the coming of death masonically therefore low 12 is a symbol of death I mean that is a great statement that is a good statement man very well I we’re talking about this because it’s part of our ritual um it’s

Said in the ritual at a certain point and then later in the lecture it’s explained that low 12 means midnight but that all happens so fast people probably don’t realize that they get this information so I’m so glad that they put this in the mentors manual it’s just a

Little paragraph but it’s something to think about they also so uh there’s so many symbols that we talk about in The Master Mason degree one of them is The Hourglass which we explain in the lecture is a symbol of human life and now we’re saying that low 12 and time in

General is an emblem of human life right it’s reinforcing what we talk about in the lecture and um we also talk about high 12 right so does that make high 12 the opposite of low 12 does that mean High 12 signifies life if low 12 signifies death uh High 12 um

According to this I believe says that it signifies completion right the number 12 is a is a a number of completion High 12 denotes noon when the sun was at its enith Zenith enith uh enith went home uh Z while low 12 denot so it doesn’t

Really get too much in number 12 did denote a thing fulfilled and was therefore an emblem of human life so so high 12 is an emblem of human life not necessarily the beginning of life but an emblem of Life low 12 is and that’s what that’s what this is discussing low 12 is

The is the end of that life it denotes the ultimate end which we will all meet and and masonry does a good job of forcing us to face our own our own mortality you know that’s why that’s why you know the the people don’t understand masonry they see skulls and they see all

This stuff and they think it’s some nefarious thing that we’re doing but what we’re doing is we are facing our own mortality the what what what was the one thing that they outlawed in the ritual yeah the coffin and the uh the the mirror reflected yes the the uh yeah

The sorry I told room of reflection or the uh I can’t recall the name but you know somebody somebody out there is shouting it email us please yeah chamber of reflection chamber of reflection I I am so sad that that is no longer part of the rich ritual that is so powerful yeah

Can we explain since it’s no longer part of the ritual can we say what it is yeah what it was absolutely the Chamber of reflection was uh before the ritual they would put the potential candidate in the room by himself in the dark and the only

Light would be a candle on a table on that table would be a mirror so that the candidate could see himself and there would also be a skull and crossbones at the foot of the mirror so for about 20 to 30 minutes the candidate was left to

Look at the remnants of the dead body and see his own reflection right I I don’t know obvious that could be to I need to go home and do that like at least once a week man I mean that’ll put you in a state I think of more thinking about

Your own mortality you see the skull of a dead person and you see your own face right so what’s the goal why why do that I think it’s the purpose uh is to put you in a time because it’s the ritual says this isn’t meant to be frivol frivolous or um it’s

Not meant to be unseemly it’s not meant to be hazing but the nature of people is they they live their lives they come to a degree and they’re having some fun they’re making some jokes and the candidate doesn’t it’s not impressed so fully on the candidate the seriousness

Of what he’s doing yeah of what the work he’s about to go undergo so in my opinion the removal of this from the ritual is a detriment to the to the fraternity as a whole because we’re not giving them proper time to it’s a meditative State absolutely that you’re

Putting them into they’re able to settle themselves calm themselves they’re with their own thoughts and it’s putting them into a place of thinking about their own mortality that’s a good point to start from I think so yeah to start anything from but what we do is we shove them in

A room we say change your clothes we say a few words and then we do the ritual and they didn’t have time to spiritually mentally prepare themselves um so maybe we need to think of another way that we can do this in our lodge that doesn’t violate rules of Grand Lodge but still

Allows us to get them to a state where they’re going to have a better experience I saw a painting and I don’t know I don’t know if we could get it but it was uh it was a painting of the mirror with the skull the skull and the

Crossbones and a CLE in front of it and there was no no fa there was no face of reflection but it was a picture of what it would look like yeah so maybe we should hang that in the outer room oh the picture not the actual thing because

You can have art right right you can have art on the wall right and then and then at least you know in the pre-initial you know before when you’re talking to them you can you can bring that moment back to seriousness I get very upset with brothers who are in that

Room yeah with candidates who are cutting up all the time you see it in every live and as the Tyler man I put an end to it almost immediately I really don’t care good it’s like knock it off let’s stop you know I want I want them

To have what I I didn’t get that when we when I most people didn’t I didn’t either right yeah so and this if we don’t for goodness sakes guys if we don’t take this seriously why should anybody else right why should anyone else take masonry seriously if we don’t

And I think um I I you know I I think the the there are those above us and in in the grand line too I I think there there is a a desire that comes down to us from from Grand LOD just say hey take this more seriously more seriously I

Mean yes you know they they want us to and that’s one of the reasons why I know it’s not popular but that that dress code that came down you know bringing us back to hey you know you you’re not allowed to wear shorts in here man you

Know you’re not you you need to wear you you need to wear proper attire what Fred’s speaking about is in Florida our Grandmaster put a ruling decision out that said he did that in the State of Florida we’re going to have a minimum expectation for people that come to

State in call Communications and that minimum As I understood he wrote it is slacks and a dress shirt and tie with a jacket or a lodge polo shirt right right that’s the minimum expectation now in Florida I’ve been in lodges and I’ve seen overalls I’ve seen t-shirts I’ve

Seen shorts I’ve seen Crocs right right yeah uh so I get it I think I get why they’re doing it I don’t think that it’s going to help turn out at lodges uh but I think this might be a signal from our Grand Lodge that they don’t care as much about

That as they do about people taking the work seriously and taking themselves seriously and and I don’t know I’m really not sure how I feel about that I want them to take the work seriously I agree um I think that men if presented correctly um good men are always going

To step up you know they’re always going to step up and do what and do what is right and required of them you know if look look we’re Masons man let’s hope so if Grand Lodge requires this of us then we need to do it we have to do it we

Even if we don’t agree with it we we should do it to show that we are not hypocritical Masons but we are we’re true true Masons man we’re obedient to the line you do it and if you disagree with it you get some other people that agree with you and you write some

Legislation and you submit it and you go talk about it and you get it passed and everyone would benefit from that action everyone would be a better man because of it cu the system is set up in such a way where you if you if you felt

Strongly about it and you were able to affect that kind of change think about the education you would get along along the way and the men that you would meet and the hearts and Minds you would change and educate and inform including your own along the way man I mean that’s

Just what it’s all about even if it doesn’t pass try again reward it figure out what people didn’t like just keep moving forward with you know this is how you improve the Frat eternity is by trying to help uh pass laws that are going to improve it it survives based on

People doing that and and this is how we adapt over time speaking of the number 12 low 12 I guess we got that one beaten down we we beat that one down um but I I I like the the reference to the number 13 you know just as the number 13 an

Evil Omen follows 12 so does death follow life I love that statement I think it’s it’s it’s poetic it’s profound you know you know I was thinking that about when you were talking this I this is the the connected pieces of Freemasonry Boggle the mind the genius

Of this system so we’re talking about the inter Apprentice uh you’re newborn the fellowcraft you’re now an adult in your middle age and gaining education and in the Master Mason degree here we talk about your eyesight failing your teeth falling out your body failing desire going away and your eventual

Death um and so uh we say low 12 is the culmination of that your act the which is the most solemn event in a man’s life is his death right uh and we should always hold that moment of a person’s life in reverence right it’s important

And now high1 12 being the opposite of that uh we reference High 12 when we go out of working to refreshment and so maybe I guess that could be taken to symbol Li uh the turning point in a man’s life where he’s done enough work to Warrant some rest

And that’s a a part you know the season of his life where he’s reached the Apex and now he’s going to start relaxing and the rest of that Mason Master Mason degree picks up from that point where it’s about failing and deterioration and eventually death right beautiful symbolism right it’s absolutely is the

Next one um and I’m reading this cold so I’m I I have not this particular ular one I have not read through with a cold with a cold so uh the Five Points of fellowship and I’m interested to see um um how this how this words out

Because I don’t think we can really there’s not a lot here we can’t talk we can talk about so let’s try it not particulars this is in the this is a published work so what I’m going to read you is uh legal for me to read out loud

Anyone can read it it’s online it’s published so I’m going to do that now the Five Points of Fellowship these five points are symbolized by the the pent by the pentala pent by the pentala or five-pointed Star I guess they don’t want to call it a pentagram right they

Reference it in here oh do they okay the right symbolized by the P the pantella the pant ala pant Alpa or five-pointed Star the connection of this geographical figure with the builder art is not readily apparent reachers research has shown that it was used exclus extensively in determining some of the

Designs for this for the splendid castles and cathedrals of medieval times in the center of the penella as often used by Masons is usually seen two clasped hands these hands were the ancient symbol of the god of fius the entire symbol signifies to the Mason that both Fidelity and Readiness

To Aid each other are the found are to be found in the order thus the star becomes the symbol of true Brotherhood the Five Points of Fellowship becomes a true sign of Brotherhood here’s a couple things on that uh sorry for butchering that I’ll I’ll try to read it again but

Pentala pentala never heard of that so the Five Points of Fellowship we’re told in the lecture are as secret as any of the ceremonies of this degree right so that right there tells us we’re not going to talk about about we’re not going toils what those are correct but

They are important very important to Freemasonry and you see that it has some the Grand Lodge of Florida is telling us we’ve lost the knowledge we don’t really know and so there like we’ve done some research and this is what it might be related to right uh I’m

Disappointed because I see a lot of people posting pictures of this online like it’s nothing Masons sharing pictures of diagrams of people in this position don’t do that uh we’re told that the the Five Points of Fellowship are as secret as any of the ceremonies of the Master Mason degree right stop

Sharing it it’s for us it’s for us and for us only that’s right we don’t even know fully why but it must be important so this I think uh would be great to do some research on yeah I agree I agree really good um but the point of the Five Points

Of Fellowship is to teach us how connected we are and how two brothers together is sharing everything is really the whole point of Freemasonry right I think that’s why they’re so secret because it speaks to the heart of who we are supposed to be right every point of

The five points is specifically telling us how to treat each other right yeah that’s right ason yeah that’s right that makes sense and I I talk to people that come into Mery all the time and one of the one of the main reasons you’re here over and over again is because I just

Want I want fellowship with other men um I don’t have any friends you know I I don’t have any connections and uh this I want to be part of something that’s bigger than myself and and that that entire concept of Fellowship right and and this is the

Five Points of Fellowship it gives us that framework of of how and why we are in fellowship and what it means you know it it and you’re right you could study that and it could go really really deep I think that might be something we might

Want to prepare for the next um esoteric uh discussion group that we have this that would probably be um because we could share it in the presence of of other masons in a discussion group right oh yeah yeah or do it as education in a stated meeting right yeah close it up

And and do and go through it I think it would be indispensable one word of the day by the way indispensable third time I used ible one more Point uh this is a was one sentence in this second paragraph you read these uh is talking about two clasped hands usually shown in

The center of a pentalpha right right uh these hands were the ancient symbols of the God fiis now um if you recall in the Entered Apprentice degree uh during the lecture there is a point where we talk about uh two clasps hands and what that represents right and we say uh our

Ancient Brethren worship God under the name fiis or Fidelity uh so that caught my mind because I give these lectures all the time and I’ve never really researched uh even how to pronounce fiis so I did that and uh fiis was the god of trust and good faith in Roman paganism

Right didn’t know that she one was one of the original virtues to be considered an act actual religious Divinity fiis is everything that is required for honor and credibility from Fidelity in marriage to contractual arrangements and the obligation soldiers owed to Rome fiis also means reliability reliability between two parties which is always

Reciprocal and the Bedrock of relations between people and their communities and then it was turned into a Roman deity and from which we gain the English word Fidelity the Roman deity may have an example in regulus who refuses to save himself at the expense of the Republic

The regulus defied his own best interest for those of his country this act alone he acted with fiis which we say Fidelity right right and in The ined Apprentice degree we say we worship de under the name fiis or Fidelity now on the Master Mason degree we’re relating the two

Clasps hands in relation to the Five Points of Fellowship which is talking about reliability between two parties right and the that represented that in Roman times so uh when Fred says there’s a lot here there’s a lot here there’s a lot here you know and I I just love that

The the symbolism of the female um you know uh and of course in Roman paganism she was known she was actual deity they you know and they they worshiped these deities but I I think about in the in uh in the Book of Proverbs uh the book in

The in the scriptures written by King Solomon you know he he creates this V this image of Two Sisters uh the the Two Sisters I I wisdom dwell with my sister prudence and and if you look down through history all of these imageries they’re always Justice Lady Justice you

Know she’s blindfolded you know and and it’s always it’s always these the the image is this woman um who symbolizes this concept or idea you know and that’s that’s what I see here you know obviously for me uh you know I don’t bow down to the deity uh phius at all you

Know but um of us recognize that this was an an idea that people absolutely to live their lives by at some point right and I just I think it’s just it’s just so profound you know that um the entire symbol signifies to the Mason that both Fidelity and Readiness to Aid each other

Are the f are to be found in the order thus the star becomes the symbol of true Brotherhood and that and Fidelity you know that that concept of being completely loyal uh to your to your brother’s concerns and to his life uh is is where where where are you going to go

And find that today where you going out there bro to find a group of men who who have your best interest at heart and and are taught to do so along with yourself uh in an active Lodge On A continuing basis I I hear this stuff I hear this

Stuff three times a week uh when I go Chris and I go to uh to different uh degrees and we watch degrees well Chris participates in them um you do too I I do too when he when he recruits me in which I I’m very thankful for um we were

At a Master Mason degree everybody standing around in the break and I’m like hey uh you got any Candace crew here cuz this guy’s got nothing to do oh my God thank you yes yes yes and they snatched him up and put clothes on him and taught

Him how to do that immediately I’m in a robe and I’m I’m a catcher man I’m like what’s a catcher it’s like oh a catcher yeah I’m in okay cool that’s what we do for our brothers that’s what we do for our brother and I’m glad you did it I’m

Glad you did it because it just it was so much more meaningful but right um back the the point and what I love about this and I think one of the main things of reason why we’re seeing masonry becoming more and more popular and our numbers are growing is because of that

Reason the men are looking for other men who have their back you know and and in in masonry you have that and and it’s growing it’s it’s growing it’s getting better there are people like me who have recently in the I think I’ve been here

What two and a half years now um or so or less maybe somewhere around there but people like me came in and there’s a wave of people coming in who want masonry to go back to the way it was we want all the rituals to be followed we

Want the concepts to be taught and we want people to take take it very very seriously because we want to we want to put it back to where it was in in our culture and Community because it’s so needed this is ironic to me when you say that

Because I was I’m a little older in Freemasonry so I was there when your class was coming through and um a lot of the elders in our lodge here young guys like from your generation that came through saying I’m not young but we get but in masonry you’re young young andon

Oh hey I’m young again you are young again you’re you’re a yeah and and literally you’re young the age average AG for our you help bring it down uh but you know where was I going with that sorry man I knocked you right off where the

Hell was I going with that point it’ll come back to you uh oh I know what it was yeah you guys are saying masonry’s changing right and for the exact reasons you just explained changing for the better going back to the original being who weed to is what you’re saying

When you sayon changing but what the older guards when you sayon is changing is oh God these guys want to turn us into something that’s not Masonic right right and the irony of it is a lot of the Elder guys are so set in their ways that aren’t necessarily Masonic uh the

Idea of going back to the true meaning of masonry would also probably scare them uh right yeah because they like the way they’ve they’ve changed it to be they like where they’re at but in reality we all got to fight to go back to the truth and and get to the most

Clear light of what masonry should be and the best way we can do that is to live it if you really really want to help Mason re become a thing in the world live it in your life yeah at home with your family at work wherever that

Is and whatever you do in your life live it masonically do everything you do masonically that’s the best way you can help help the fraternity yeah uh and uh one more point you were talking about U law the symbol of laws a woman right robes so there Justice and Justice

There’s a picture in Wikipedia of fiis on a pompeian coin uh so there’s a depiction of what they thought fiis you know how they represented her and uh she’s represented as a young woman crowned with the olive or Laurel wreath holding in her hand a turtle dove

In one hand and uh fruits or grains or a military inen and the other and she’s got a white Veil so the representation of fiis on this coin you wouldn’t know the difference between Lady Liberty it looks you know right at first glance exactly like the representation we use

Of Liberty uh and you know maybe that makes sense maybe there’s a tie between this fight and the goddess of Liberty that we uh put all over our laws and buildings today because we’re talking about reliability between two parties reci reciprocity of trust reciprocity and Justice between us the relationships

Of our community yeah without which no Society can survive you can’t survive without it without reliability and trust between parties everything stops you know and that’s what’s happening now we’re grinding to a halt because nobody can trust anybody and the the those who were who were charged with keeping you know the court

System is in is in absolute mess these days you know and and the way law is is is done or not done is just an absolute mess and without Fidelity without Liberty Justice without all of these representations you can just see the representation of the the statues of the

Ladies you know out there of fidelity and you can see Lady Justice and you can see prudence and and wisdom and Temperance and all these all these Concepts and we’re we’re turning our back on all of them and look at what’s going on out there we’re suffering and

Masonry is is is attempting in my opinion we are attempting to to turn the table back to yes because a country will go the way its young men go and it’s just I know that sounds like a very sexist uh comment and maybe you think it

Is but it’s true a country will always go the way that its young men go and our young men are not going in the way of fidelity uh they’re going in the way of self-doubt and um and and fear you know and withdraw you know most if if one

Word that I could use to explain the young men that are in my life um that have no direction is withdraw they just don’t want the hassle yeah of of communal life anymore you know look at I I was sitting with some young men last night and and they’re all single and and

The way the way they talk it’s like yeah I would love to get in a relationship but I’m just I’m very cautious they’re all so cautious hands off I’m so surprised by that it’s so true they’re so cautious and connected it’s it’s no small thing you could lose everything oh

Yeah as a as a young man getting into a relationship in our society you know and they my son is is uh uh turned 18 and he’s going to college and I was having a long talk with him you know he’s staying with me for a couple months before he

Goes off to college that way you can have lots of long talks with him yeah actually I do captive audience yeah well he wants to you know and he he was telling me you don’t understand dad like I am terrified because even if I meet someone and we’re having a good time and

You know we go back and we’re having a consensual experience in the back of my mind I’m always hoping that this is okay yeah right I’m asking is it okay I’m hearing it’s okay but I feel like that could change at any moment because it can and he’s terrified imagine going

Through life terrified of having an intimate relationship with someone right no because he wants to be a doctor he’s like I could lose everything if somebody thought that I did something inappropriate and so he is afraid to have an honest intimate relationship with someone of his age as in my age

Child an adult child but still uh that’s no way to to go through life we’re our society needs to really we need more Masons out there yeah I I I agree it’s it’s a I mean it’s it’s an absolute jungle out there um for the young man

You know and and I I tell young man I told my son Troy you know focus on your studies man you know there’s plenty of time for all that focus on your studies because we’ve had that I’ve had that conversation too my other son Eric is

Married um and and uh and my youngest son Danny is also married h both of them are happily married they have ch uh my one son has four children my other son after daddy sh shout out to Danny let’s go boy let’s go I need some grandsons

Don’t be that guy don’t be that guy make babies for me make some babies boy guy needs a life let him have his life but uh what I what I told my son Troy is look if you’re if you’re not you know you’re all right so fine you the dating

Scene is is treacherous shark fill Waters you don’t want anything to do with it fine stud then throw yourself into your studies for a couple five years make a plan you know get out of debt save some money you know buy a nice car whatever it is that you you want to

Do work on you don’t get involved in all these yeah crazy relationships you don’t you don’t necessarily need it you won’t die uh you won’t die you’ll probably be a better man for it and maybe somewhere along the way you’ll meet that one woman who’s actually the one who’s gonna yeah

You know stay with youh for your life because like I told him about his mother you know his mother was worth waiting for in my life she was worth waiting for you know and I’ve been through a lot of Hell in those relationships because it

Is a jungle out there but the one is worth it and any guy out there who has a relationship a marriage with the one woman knows what I’m talking about my wife my wife is my very best friend she is my Confidant and always has my back I

Always have her and there’s nothing else in the world gifted To Us by our creator than that relationship and it’s worth working towards and uh and and waiting for that’s my message today for all the young men listening have some Fidelity have some Fidelity so you see this is how we get

Ourselves into trouble two paragraphs in the mentor’s manual most people would be like blah blah blah we know about this we just talked about it for 20 minutes right we could go another 30 minutes on we could go all day on this stuff absolutely we have to try to stay it’s

It’s just so interesting well now a lot of the emails that we get are telling us that these a lot of these rabbit Trails uh you guys like um that the the way Chris and I go down these roads is actually um helpful for a lot of people

That’s good because that’s really all you’re going to get because this is this is it guys yeah this is how it works um I I although I would say that our the Symposium talk that we did was very structured um went Point by point and I thought it was really good and we

Although we did find some rabbit trails uh to uh enjoy along the way um we did stick on task my little gifts to our presentation that’s right that’s right all I got and I’m excited that it is a it is a possibility that we might be asked to speak at Grand Lodge just

Briefly I’ve uh reached back out to see if he wants that to happen I’m down with that man give me the stage baby give me the stage yeah you’ll be crowd surfing out there oh yeah yeah yeah man I will be crowd serving anyways it would be an

Honor and a privilege well my wife told me last night night she she she might not go why so I I just got my son’s graduating this month and we did the KE West thing oh okay she has a trip so it’s just a lot so she’s GNA take a

Break yeah so I think I might be flying uh solo out there for the first time wow which means more time for interviews more time for interviews woohoo woohoo well uh yeah uh there’s a side note well um we’ll miss her for sure we will absolutely miss her I was kind of

Looking forward to her being there yeah we’ll hang out we’ll hang out and and we we’ve got a more work will get done this way that’s true and we’ve got we are going to be very busy because we have an announcement to make which we’re not going to make today about a about

Something we’re pretty excited about around here which we’re really going to reveal at Grand Lodge basically but please check us out at Grand Lodge if you’re a fan of the show there’s going to be some special news for you they’ll be some special news and we just want to

Meet you guys and shake hands and we we want to shake some hands and kiss some babies man yeah yeah don’t be a baby man babies don’t be a baby or you’ll have to have have a big wet kiss from Chris which was not a good thing I will do it

He will do it will do it be for wared do we want to go on to the next one the next one is the LI the The Lion of the tribe of Judah now this one this has a lot in there and I I have a little bit

Of a disagreement sort of in here so well this is going to yeah I’m I’m curious to see how this plays out between us um because I also have some IDE is about this all right all right well let’s do it let’s do it let’s do

This all right so the lion of the tribe of Judah the lion from the earliest times of recorded history has been a symbol of Might and royalty it was placed on the standard of the tribe of Judah because it was the royal tribe of the Hebrew Nation the kings of Judah

Were therefore called the lion the lion of the tribe of Judah this was one of the titles of King Solomon this is the literal meaning of the term but it also has a symbolic one the Jewish idea of the Messiah was that of a mighty temporal King he was designated the lion

Of the tribe of Judah for it was from this tribe that all rulers came the expression does not of necessity refer to Jesus of Nazareth though though though the Christian Mason May so interpret the name uh the name if he desires the lion of the tribe of Judah

Also describes the Messiah of the Jewish Mason or the med mediator of some of the ancient religions of the of the East whose worshippers are masons Freedom of Choice as to the application of these symbols is one of the reasons for the growth of Freemasonry over the centuries

Hya there you go wow Freedom of Choice as to the application of the symbols yeah Freedom of Choice freedom of choice and and one of the reasons why get that last part there uh one of one of the reasons for the growth of Freemasonry over the centuries is that that

Application now for for Christians if you’re if you’re a Christian who holds to the scriptures you know that the lion of the tribe of Judah is in fact the Lord Jesus Christ that’s what we believe there you go and it’s the it’s a prophetic utterance here goes the here goes the

Voice it’s a prophetic utterance of the coming of of Messiah and that’s very unique uh a very unique uh belief of the of the Christian faith actually uh it’s the Jews who term the coin the lion of the tribe of Judah because they thought the Messiah was

Going to be a warrior right they they were and even even in the days of ancient Palestine when the Lord was walking the Earth they were constantly asking him are you now going to restore Israel are you the one are you the are you the Conquering you know uh military

King who’s going to you know are you the the the new Joshua the new Moses and and and and his answer was always that’s not why I came man that’s not why I came you’ve misinterpreted this is the split from Judaism to Christianity happens right

Here well this is it yes right uh the the split yeah that’s a good point the split is over Messiah who’s Messiah did he come has he come yet because they’re like where is he where is he and then Christian said this is the Messiah we

Have our Messiah he and the Jews said I don’t think so he didn’t deliver us you know we that’s what our Messiah is supposed to do well and they were offended because this particular Messiah came into their Temple and insulted them about the way they were doing things you

Know so and but he was a Jew at the time he was a rabbi think about that he was an Insider it’s not like he came in as an outside third party like his mother stepfather his mother and stepfather were from the tribe of they they were

From Bethlehem of the tribe of Judah man right yeah I mean he he grew up in this culture uh was raised in the Jewish faith and abolutely was preaching as a rabbi he was found he he the story early on and I think it’s in uh the the gospel of Matthew where he

Was uh as a little boy they’d gone up to the temple once a year you as a Jew you had to go up to the temple when it was your time to offer the sacrifices and then you come home it was a big event it was like Christmas on steroids for these

Folks and they travel there well on the way home they lost their child they’re like where’s where is Yeshua he’s gone we don’t know where he is so they turned around and went all the way back and they found him in the temple sitting down with the head rabbis arguing

Theology nice and they were and and they and his mother asked him you know why have you done this to us he said did come on Mom you you had to know that I had to be in the temple exact words I had to be in my father’s house you know

That you know and and she was just like oh right right the the the angel spoke to me before you were born that’s right got it this is the heart of Freemasonry it’s giving you multiple ways to interpret the same symol that are true for all sides that look at it right you

Can look at it as Solomon was I mean that was one of his I guess titles he had was the lion it it was it ABS it absolutely was well his father what David um you know this is the line he was a lion he he was clearly a lion but

Let me let me just say say this um it’s like you said um the my faith is is what I believe and it’s and I know why why I believe it but the this only reaffirms it for you you’re like yes yes yes and and you know

And I’ll just say this uh the Christian faith has not done a good job at this and I find that you know CHR men are involved it’s true not their fault not the core Faith’s fault and if you don’t believe everything and stay away from everything else you know you’re in some

Sort of bizarre violation of of all things holy and it’s just not true no it’s just not true the problem with uh the the American Christian faith right now is the same problem with almost all organizations nobody knows what they believe and why they believe it you ask

The average Christian what they believe and why they believe and they cannot tell you so therefore stay away from the world everybody come into the church close the doors and don’t ask don’t let those people in who ask questions because we don’t have any answers and that to me is unacceptable for any

Organization yeah I mean this is a this is a failing of us as people we’re jealous we’re small-minded um but in reality everything is a constantly changing and an evolution and we are no different and you talked about a story of Jesus as a child going into the temple and arguing not necessarily

Arguing but probably discussing the tenants absolutely discussing because it’s a journey to get where you’re going and those things have to happen you can’t not have the conversation right to get to the point where you you want to wind up you have to do the work and that

Includes challenging your ideas um and that will only cement your beliefs yeah because you’ll come to conclusions when you challenge those ideas for yourself if you’re a critical thinker and then you’ll be more secure in your beliefs I totally agree I I meant argue in the in the true sense

Of the word not a fight right an argument is just a presentation of facts that’s what argument is I’m yeah you know he he was probably presenting what what he was given divinely what we’re doing right here discussion of like how does that apply you know how does this

Make sense to me and like this kind of a discussion we’re making cogent arguments which are based in gentleness respect kindness a desire to teach a desire to learn and uh I find I again we are free the reason why Chris and I are so excited about Freemasonry is because of

I think that’s one of the main reasons is we are able to discuss openly amongst Brothers of differing opinions and backgrounds what we believe why we believe it for the for the sole purpose of unity and and service and making ourselves better making of ourselves better I don’t say anything to you to

Change your mind right I say something to you because you asked a question or because I’m prefacing a question I have for you because I want to improve myself I want to get more knowledge I want to get more information and this you’re absolutely right this is what I

Absolutely love it’s a safe place for thinkers because out in the world I own a business I cannot talk about anything right because almost it’s a landmine anything can lead to something that offends somebody or labels you in their mind and I don’t want that to happen in

Business or with my friends so uh there’s nowhere else that I get to exercise my critical thinking than when we have Masonic discussions within a lodge because it’s safe and okay to do it there because we are on the same level of uh we love each other and we

Don’t have bad feelings about each other it really is about trying to understand and get and get light get to the light of my light uh and closer to my Creator and we’re both having that same experience that’s right even though we don’t agree 100% on everything and

That’s how it’s supposed to be yeah I agree and that’s that’s where learning comes from is you you don’t really learn anything when you’re surrounded by people who look like you and sound like you um you don’t learn much but when you’re surrounded by people of different

Beliefs and opinions it forces you it has being in masonry has forced me to go back to my faith go back to the things that I’ve learned and and and reeducate myself on them and I’m stronger than ever in my faith you know I’m stronger

In ever ever in in the things I believe and and my the reason we started this podcast we really just wanted a place to talk we just wanted a place to talk and to grow and we needed a reason to do it we needed to have a thing that made us

Do this on a regular basis right right yeah and it’s turned into this it’s turned into hundreds of people 6,000 of you around the world who are uh who are boggles my mind which boggles my mind it’s at a degree last night and I’m shaking hands with a brother that I I

Rarely and he said you’re in my head all day man and I was like oh what okay I didn’t know if it was a good or a bad thing and then it clicked I’m like oh that’s right I have this podcast right he’s like listening to us yeah yeah in

His head and thinking about the stuff we say I’m still trying to wrap my mind around that’s happening you know because and to me I’m a small-minded person I don’t do this it’s I’m sitting to you talking to you about things that matter to me right think about uh but it

Happens you know we release the podcast and like you said you get positive and negative feedback and to the people that give negative feedback um we don’t get a lot of it some of it is just arguing a Viewpoint and I think this section of the mentors menu also speaks to that

Because they’re telling you right here where was it um that these symbols your given the freedom to interpret them for yourself right there isn’t a definitive right answer to a lot of things in Freemasonry and if you present yourself as having definitive right answers in Freemasonry I want to use softer words

But the words that come to mind are you’re a fool right because nothing you should be sure of very little in life you should be always questioning always seeking more information and more light the second we get overly confident that we know things and other people don’t

And no one can get any information in us our progress has stopped so you have to kind of stay open to other people’s interpretation of things to get more light for yourself um and this is a great example of that because I know this part of this ritual often turns

Non-christians off because they also associate the lion of the tribe of Judah with Jesus right it’s just a very commonly known thing to all of us in it’s a key tenant of the faith yeah yeah it’s it stands or Falls it without it there is no Christian yeah exactly so

It’s very important and non-christians I have seen them get annoyed by this um here in our district I’ve talked to guys that are like I hate this part of the rituals blah blah blah right but it’s like brother open your mind up you don’t have to assign that idea to this you

Look it’s telling you think about Solomon think about the leaders of the Ancient East like there’s lots of other ways you can interpret this don’t get fixated on the one thing that you don’t want to interpret it as or or maybe go to a brother who who does hold to that

And sit down and talk with him and find out you know what he does believe right you know and and and and formulate what you believe based on on the the truths that you hear I mean I you know I mean that’s that’s just it’s right here to

What I’m going to reread it because it’s exactly what you’re saying go our minds must ever be open open to the reception of truth from whatever source and having once received it to always act agreeably to its dictates hence Masons everywhere are devoted to freedom of thought of speech

And of action yeah yeah man love it that’s a good one to end on man right there that’s what you’re getting at right yeah that’s exactly right yeah yeah this is um I mean I could go on talking about this part forever yeah but this is uh

This is the core of if you want to know what Freemasonry is about there you go it is it’s about us trying to get more light and trying to respect each other’s viewpoints but and learning how to do that our own right and and learning how

To do it how how to disagree with a brother and remain in fellowship with him you know without becoming offended like you said there’s brothers who don’t want to hear about the lion of the tribe of Judah because it makes them mad it’s like well well you’re looking at it the

Totally the wrong way masonry wants to teach you how to sit down with that brother over coffee or even an adult beverage and and understand it you you still May Come Away not agreeing with it but you will understand it what you’re currently doing is the reason you’re you

Don’t want to hear it is because you don’t understand it and instead of taking the time to to look into it and to be educated and to learn you’re just rejecting it and walking away from it you’re you’re doing yourself a disservice if you do that man big time

It’s one of two things either you’re so in insecure in your own beliefs that you can’t hear anything else because you’re afraid you’re going to lose your faith or there’s something else going on here I think the the brother that said that to me he is not the first case he is a

Very smart person I think it’s that he had negative experiences with Christians right which he’s assigning those negative experiences he had with Christians to anything Christian and that again youve just shut yourself off to receiving light and uh progressing as a man right yeah and I think in in my

Mind the the best thing I can do for the faith tradition that I hold to is be a good Mason yeah so that maybe that brother who had a bad experience and believe me man I’ve been in I’ve been in church for 35 years I’ve had some I

Could tell you some stories bro it is rough in there um but maybe I can be an ex a positive example of what it looks like to be that man absolutely and I know a shout out to our brother uh Wade botkin who uh holds to a Buddhist uh

Buddhist beliefs he is a he’s a great example of a man who holds to his faith and um he’s an enigma man he he is and he just comes I can’t wait to have him on this show I know right yeah that’s gonna be good especially with that

Accent he is he’s got he’s from Florida but he’s got that like South Carolina draw right I love that so Wade by profession is a psychologist yeah yeah psychiatrist or psychologist I don’t I’m not sure how that works I know he’s a counselor okay um of some professional

Um accreditation I’m not exactly sure if he’s all the way up to a doctor but yeah he’s really good at what he does for sure that’s his profession like he dedicated some time of his life to studying the scientific yeah you know principles of people’s behaviors and

Whatnot but at the same time he’s also a pretty DieHard spiritualist and not cut off to the ideas of many aspects of spirituality and and uh you know things that we don’t understand and can’t understand through science so what a great example of a guy who just keeps asking questions of Life

Yeah and and he didn’t let science dictate everything and he’s not going to let his spirituality dictate everything he’s going to go through life questioning both he’s a critical thinker because he he knows what he’s talking about so the the things that he espouses um the things that he espouses

Are things that he’s considered deeply so you you know he he speaks with a a level of confidence I just I love hearing him expound about his his faith and and uh and his traditions and the and the way he looks at life uh and that’s again we’re we’re beating this to

Death a little bit but that’s what masonry should be within the fellowship you know we we we strive to figure out better and better ways to agree and work together it’s in there you know that’s part of our part of part of the the the things that we commit to you know we

We’re always looking for better ways to agree we’re always looking for better ways to educate each other to hold each other up to serve each other uh it’s just who we are it’s it’s it’s that’s the craft that’s what it is that’s what it should be and that’s what you and I

Chris are dedicating ourselves to through this podcast that’s what we want for the craft worldwide is to get back to that that that place where when you as a as a as a a Master Mason in England can walk into your Lodge and there’s

Five or six or 10 guys in there that you know beond the shadow of a doubt are your brothers to the very end they have your back 100% And together you you teach and learn and grow uh within this this idea of masonry that we have and

Where you going to find that man I keep going back to where in this world you tell me write me write me right now in an email send it to me where where where you going to find that uh for a Men’s Fraternity that goes that deep into into relationships friendships and education

You’re not going to find it anywhere and here’s the thing that I want to say uh Fred talks a lot about his personal belief um his religion he is not trying to convert you okay he is trying to give you an example of a Mason and his

Viewpoints on masonry and his faith he isn’t trying to convert you I’m not trying to convert you either with anything I say um I’m also neither one of us are saying that we know everything about what we’re saying what we’re doing is giving you our two people’s viewpoints on the things that we’re

Talking about and our limited understanding of the things that we’re talking about or we’re pontificating for the purposes of En enhancing the discussion uh so don’t uh for me personally I am not an expert on anything uh don’t don’t try to follow what I say is the way we want you to

Take the example of what we’re doing here and then do this the same in your life yeah just question things um and you know demand we talked about religion a lot today because that’s what the Master Mason degree kind of talks about so that’s we’re doing it but there is a

Societal aspect to this as well like we talked about in the last episode with the Ruffians yes there’s the spiritual side but there’s also the societal side and we are men in a community and in a world and you have to carry these ideals yes into your life yes into your

Philosophy your religion but also to your politics so I definitely don’t want to get into a political discussion but on the subject of politics in masonry I’d say this uh hold your ideals of masonry to every aspect of your life expect people to especially leaders to be of the same

Mind as you don’t close yourself off to ideas is be open to change be open to getting new information and hold people to a a standard of Integrity yeah again stop voting for people that clearly have no integrity and I know that’s hard because they don’t give us any options

Of people other than people that have no damn Integrity right now there are very few options but we got to somehow get to a point where we’re putting people up for choice that have some integrity and uh the same kind of ideals that are going to advance our country in our

Society which is togetherness and listening to people and including people not identifying bad guys identifying enemies and writing people off for Life uh because that isn’t how uh who best can work and best agree is who we should be electing yeah that’s right who best

Can work who is capable and who best can agree with the opposition who can actually get things done that’s what we should be looking for in our politicians and I know we’re not getting those choices right now we all know that yeah we absolutely are not but we got to

Raise up a generation that understands that’s what we demand in this country there people that can work well and agree with each other and get things done yeah that’s make your kids learn these lessons so that they go into the world and maybe they can change it in

Their generation yeah and you said you you don’t want to have a you know a political discussion but actually in masonry it’s the same thing as a religious discussion you can have any discussion you want as long as it’s done with g respect 100% And in with regard to

Politics I’m completely open to learning new things I am neither left nor right in my there’s no left there’s no L or R next to my name um because um I’m I’m simply going back to who can best benefit the community at large right because the government was designed uh

You know it’s of the people and by the people for a reason you know for the common good it’s supposed to be working for the common good there shouldn’t be all these factions and and things within it we’ve got if if masonry truly wants to affect change within the government

Structure we’ve got a lot of work to do there we’re called to right supposed to be standing in our communities we’re supposed to advance our society our culture our species and we’re required to hold men and women accountable to those standards see we let them get away with it because

Most of us are afraid of them and they have all the guns and money um and we don’t we don’t want to stand up to them because they could cause trouble for us well guess what we haven’t stood up to them for that reason and they’re still

Causing trouble for us so at some point men and women need to stand up and say no more change no more we need we need serious change here we’re we’re bankrupt uh morally we’re bankrupt financially um we’re bankrupt spiritually and the the leading Force for good on this

Planet is now is now walking with a limp um and ready to stumble man and we I I believe well pay attention to what’s happening in our country because our fraternity could suffer the same fate if we’re not very very very careful and we seem to be more careful inside of the

Lodge right and yeah we definitely behave better inside the lodge right but you need to carry the take the training wheels off go carry it into your life yeah I I met a brother last night and you know him great guy and uh he just got back on Facebook he’s been off for

Three years because he said a bunch of political stuff and got removed and got mad and never went back on but here’s the thing um say the political stuff say it if you got to say it just remember your Masonic teachings just do it from a

Place don’t be hateful in what you have to say right say what you have to say stand by what you believe in you should you’re called to do that but that doesn’t mean you name called demonize and other people aren’t aren’t aren’t evil because they don’t understand you

They’re not like uh they’re not an enemy because they don’t fully understand you they don’t understand you because you haven’t been able to break through on a communication level and you also have to be open to hearing what they have to say and there’s a level of Tolerance and

Temperance that has to be present in order to do that because society’s training us to trigger and get mad and angry and not listen right fight and it’s always the same thing it’s create the two classes the left and the right and get them fighting with each other

While those at the top continue to piler uh and steal our time and our lives from us and it’s they’ve and it it works every time the crown did it uh the Kings have done it and throughout all of history that’s how it works and we the

People have to stop doing that I have I have learned so much from people I’m I would be more center right Chris would be more Center left and I have learned so much from him um just from talking with him about his perspectives why he believes what he believes and and and

I’m sure he’s learned from me as well absolutely back and forth and and that’s I always do when I have those conversations and I have one other friend that’s hard right uhhuh and he views me as hard left but that’s that’s the way things are but it’s somebody I

Can at least talk to and so it’s funny CU we we will talk for hours about politics and it can get loud heated but we both walk away going you did a good job humanizing your position and that allowed me to hear more of what you had

To say because I see you as a person right and I’m open to hearing what you have to say when I see you as a person uh but when we can’t when we dehumanize each other there’s no conversation to be had no progress to be made right we’re

We’re brothers of the same Creator uh you can call him something different but yeah we’re living on the same Planet breathing the same air we living in the same country State County City we’re we we are countrymen it does and everyone you meet even the ones who can’t stand

You because of what you believe he’s still your Countryman we have to get back to that before it’s too late I think I think masonry has a role to play in that it absolutely does it might be the last best chance we have hopefully I’m thinking that more and more more and

More as I look on the landscape religion is only now tying into the same thing as the politics it’s like it’s getting hard to have for religious people to talk to each other just like different politics is we need a system like masonry that takes us all together and looks at the

Bigger picture and says you’re right right you’re right you’re right and and you guys aren’t wrong you’re right now what do we do together on a Civic level right how do we how do we make this this country this land this place a better place apart from our disagreements you

Know know and I don’t there’s no other Forum out there for that and social media makes it impossible yeah uh but face-to-face relationships um talking with people getting to know them getting to know their families um that’s what that’s what does it and getting back to that

Masonry has a role to play that because that’s what we do we are about face-to-face relationships man we come together and we shake hands we look each other in the eye and we get to know people their struggles their their triumphs and and and that’s what changes

Things because we’re forced to be within this fraternity within this Society of different people from different backgrounds and it’s wonderful and I think we’ve beaten that one to death but obviously guys you guys that are listening you know how we feel about this this is probably one of our

Strongest points I agree I think they probably do we get thumbs up on this one all the time yeah and you know there’s a I don’t know if it’s a blessing or a curse but uh may you live in interesting times uh well probably a curse more than

A blessing be careful what you ask for because we are definitely living in interesting times take a deep breath wherever you are and smell it because you’re living in interesting times that’s right that’s right and the thing about living in interesting times is you have more opportunity to step up and

Lead and be a hero than in in non-interesting times and both in masonry I think masonry at least in Florida it seems to me is trying to get its house in order yeah I agree I agree which is a great exciting thing to see because once we get our house in order

We can then go out into the world again with pride and hold our heads up high that’s right and as an example let’s get out there let’s show the world what Masons are really about once we take care of our house yeah that’s right man we’re living in interesting times all of

Us and we get to be a part of this yeah that’s right engageing it do it be a leader I’m I’m I’m excited about the things that are coming we got a lot of things coming up we can’t really talk too much about them right now but uh at

Grand Lodge and after Grand Lodge we’ll we’ll start in season two we’ll start um you know talking more about the direction we want to go and same same idea this podcast will always be about masonry and what we love about it uh and always always trying to bring you guys

You listeners into this conversation as much as we possibly can and more than that getting you listener to go back out to your Lodge and to do something great go into your Lodge next time time you’re at at at lodge do something do something positive greet a brother uh mend a

Relationship whatever it is that you have to do to make your Lodge experience better for yourself and for all those around you go and do that this week man and then shoot us an email tell us what happened tell us how things went we want homework assignment that’s a homework

Assignment for every Mason listening go Shake somebody’s hand do do something crazy bro seriously bring up an ID in your Lodge that you’ve had that you didn’t want to say I had an idea in our lodge we need to remodel this thing you know and everybody probably had the

Thought but nobody like said it right take it take it on you got to just say it and watch what’s going to happen when you say it yeah your Lodge is going to start to come to life people are going to be like what I could I know a guy

That can do this I know a guy that can do that and then things start to happen bring some life into your Lodge be the guy to do it say something crazy yeah right your worshipful master will be uh interested actually he will he will he

Will they all want to do something great in their year and if they don’t have something great give them something great and if it’s not that interesting that’s why he has a Gabel so go for it let let it rip bro let it rip Tater chip okay not that

Crazy you want to get crazy let’s get crazy oh I can’t wait for that movie it’s another Batman reference but which Batman I’m I’m not gonna say here’s here’s what I which Batman said that quote come on everyone listening knows Fred can get this right I’m I’m on meds

So I can’t I can’t Michael Keaton that was Michael Keaton’s Batman I’m sure it was which was probably one of my favorite mine too my favorite Batman and and the thing about Batman is I had a conversation I think I don’t know where I was but I had a conversation you know

Batman could be real Superman he can’t be real he can’t be real Superman is a fictitious character but Batman oh yeah could be real Batman could happen all right Superman not going to happen Spider-Man not happening however Batman could happen and to me that’s why of all

The superheroes he will always be my absolute favorite have to agree yeah completely yeah all right listen uh guys we have uh I’ve enjoyed my time once again brother hanging out with you talking about our favorite subject I hope you guys have also enjoyed it um

Send us your emails let us know what’s going on at your Lodge get out there do your homework all right get out there Shake somebody’s hand do something uh that you’ve never done before within your Lodge uh to affect positive change and then shoot us an email tell us how

It went tell us what you did and that’s one of the other things we can do we can be a receptacle of light you can send us an email and we’ll say it and everyone will hear your idea we we want to share what works we want to share uh you know

New ideas that people have that other people haven’t heard so right send us that information too and we’ll share it with everybody on your behalf we definitely will all right my brother uh until next next week um let’s uh let’s just keep building build it strong man build it strong build it

Square I love it sounds good we’ll see you next time

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