Hey Chris yeah Fred what’s a Mason that’s a really good question Fred you’ve reached the internet’s home for all things masonry join Chris and I as we Plum the depths of our ancient craft from the common gavel to the trout nothing is off the table so grab your tools and let’s get to work this is on the level well
Brother we are back Chris how are you brother you know I’m having a little bit I didn’t realize I was recording everything we just did uh so oh cool I’m starting a new one now okay all right well we got some b-roll there that’s what they call that’s a little inside
Baseball for you there I’ve destroyed all the footage so clearly I tell people people who talk to me all the time about uh you know the podcast and and we’re very thankful for you guys uh shouting out to us and telling us you like it but
I always tell them you know we you realize we have we have no idea what we’re doing right yeah yeah I mean I don’t think we we don’t pretend to know what we’re doing well this intro anything do right is like we got lucky something went right something because
It wasn’t well we did our best but uh and I have another confession to make uh brother Chris uh I have had a horrendous week oh man a horrendous week yeah yeah yeah just um you know as a project manager in the construction industry it’s basically my job to drive around
And yell at grown men all day so and that’s what I do and today was an espe this week was a especially um rich with lots and lots of yelling so I’m yelled out I’m yelled out this good for me and good for you I guess are listeners who won’t yelled at
Proba as you know Chris I don’t yell on you I don’t yell at you on camera so that that’s the good part I’m just going to record everything from now on I don’t I don’t yell at you ever no you because you are the worshipful master of the
Lodge I attend and that would not be the right way to go yeah and I’m I hopefully don’t do anything that is deserving being yelled at often hey uh shout out to Campbell toi from Canada oh yes shout out Campbell wow that was awesome to meet that was so awesome to meet you
Campbell if for those of you who don’t know Campbell emailed us uh from the podcast from Canada and um and he came down on vacation coincidentally to Sarasota the mighty 147 and he attended one of our EA degrees thank you Campbell U brought us C happen we were both in
That degree we were both in that degree correct officers yeah so we got to see us in our penguin suits uh in the wild doing Freemason ritual work looking good in our we did look good yeah we we look good uh one more uh one more
Note uh that doesn’t really matter uh is that we are not in the other Studio of the other Studio we are in Chris’s office yes that’s why you see all of the Star Trek memorabilia in the background and for those of you who are listening uh worshipful Chris Burns is a trekky uh
Big time so and as evidenced by this office it’s everywhere let me just go down a rabbit hole sure and explain this to you because it’s pretty deep for deep person Tre we’re about to go treky deep not treky deep this is personal um oh I
Grew up with without a father so my father was a criminal who wasn’t around when I was growing up uh he had he set up franchises all over the US I have multiple families that I’ve met over time half brothers and half sisters all over the country uh that we found each
Other um as adults and uh his lack of presence in my life caused me to not have relationships with men because I had an older sister and a younger sister my mother we grew up uh because she was a single mom living with her mother and her mother’s mother lived right next
Door okay so I’m talking about one two three four generation of women is what I grew up with and you no men yeah okay and me so uh Freemasonry was my outlet into having some kind of good men relationships with men because in my whole life I was never had real close
Relationships with men but where Star Trek comes into play is when I was growing up in that house full of women uh I would go up stairs to my room and watch reruns of Star Trek over and over and over again as a kid the original Star Trek the original Star Trek and
This is where I developed all of my ideas about how men are supposed to behave I thought all men acted this way because this is like James Kirk their relationships you know they always had each other’s backs it doesn’t matter how bad it get no man Left Behind like we’re
Family I got my ideas about how to run a company how to be a good man how to be a good husband all that from my Star Trek growing up watching it so as an adult I became obsessed with meeting them in person and collecting their signatures
And just having a a sh a handshake and not being the guy that says you changed my life because I’m sure they get it all the time right yeah yeah I didn’t but you’ll see me uh there’s picture of me with William Shatner and uh you know
Some of the NextGen cast and behind you you’ve got Lu fno and some of the non-star Trek people that go to those conventions is that Henry Winkler right there that is me and my wife hanging out with Henry Winkler that is so cool and above that folks he’s got a picture of
The fwn yeah Jumping the Shark jumping the Jumping the Shark that’s him Jumping the Shark in one of the Happy Days episodes so I’m a nerd um but it’s very personal to me I’m not just a nerd nerd like I have a a deep connection to this
Stuff in my life I I just want to tell you brother um that Story from beginning to end all of it is why I love you man it’s why I love you bro because I’m an authentic guy you are an authentic human being I don’t tell people this stuff but
There’s a reason for everything that you see it’s not it’s not just a I’m a fan uh connects to me very deeply well now I’m a fan and uh so not only of Star Trek but of you U my friend and worful master of the lodge that I attend um so
Um I know everybody out there is saying shut up shut up who cares Chris and about all this is um talk about Freemasonry talk about Freemasonry well here’s the thing about Freemasonry um fellowcraft we’ve been working through fellowcraft and here’s what we want to
Say um this is going to be four this is our fourth and final regardless of where we get and here’s why guys because as Mason’s out there open up the material and get into it and start reading it as we have um as you know you should and
And really dig into it I am finding for me that and I’ve heard a lot of people say this the fellowcraft degree is I think my favorite degree yeah and you know we tell people right after the degree hey this is going to go fast that degree was fast your catechism your time
Here is going to go fast but keep coming back because there’s so much here I hope you see we did two episodes and the Entered Apprentice degree we’re going on our fourth hour of talking about the fellowcraft we haven’t even scr we’re not done yeah we’re like okay we have to
Move on I’m so sorry but we could probably do another 4 hours with our eyes closed talking about the fellow craft degree absolutely so that’s how involved this degree is and it goes by so fast and you know another good thing that uh somebody discovered our podcast
That we both know um and this is some that had been very critical of me so far this year in my r as worful master and indicated that I was failing uh to provide education to the lodge in any meaningful way yes all 30 days into it
Yes I get well we do 30 minutes pre uh we do 30 minutes of Education before every meeting but I guess it’s not enough for some people and they discovered the podcast and came and apologized and they said wow you are doing education you’re just doing it in
A different way um and they were really apologetic that they judged Me Without Really knowing the full extent of what we were doing here and they’re huge fans of the podcast and and shout out to this person because humility uh is uh is a trait that is
Very Masonic yes it’s t it’s tough to say I was wrong about something uh but what they suggested is that we do 15 minutes of Fred and Chris in the lodge room uh yeah not just me and you talking but us bringing a subject up having a
Brief com and including the whole Lodge in a 15 minute conversation about something all right I’m down with that I like the idea I’m down with that yeah 15 minutes with Fred and Chris at Sarasota Lodge 147 come on um give me the stage baby anytime anytime put me in front of
I don’t care 10 people or 10,000 people just give me the stage you know I don’t see it as like being about us so much is we’re facilitating a conversation that the lodge can have because they don’t have it they just need somebody to pull it out of them sometimes no that’s right
Man and I I’m I’m 100% behind you so so you set it on air yeah I’m planning this right on the 28th to do it you just got to figure out or yeah I was thinking we talk about uh the working tools and go ahead and ask people what their favorite
Working tools are and why and hear from every single person there oh I love it all right all right deal deal look for that one guys out there uh that’ll be uh that’ll be forthcoming we’ll we’ll hook that up in a big way all right so fellowcraft degree fellowcraft degree so
I thought we’d just jump in at um in the book in the book it’s a 4.13 uh which is published so all everything that’s in this book is available for anybody who wants to read it because uh you could go to the uh Grand Lodge website and you could download this entire thing
Anyone can what book is it Fred uh oh sorry it’s the mentor manual ah okay this is the mentor manual gl27 perfect um so um so I want to go to uh 4.13 which is the winding stairs which everyone’s favorite lecture everyone oh absolutely did I say
Everyone’s Le how many have you had none it’s been a long week for me too F we’re we’re recording on an off day we’ve never recorded at this time on this day I think we’re both off a little so we apologize that’s right that’s right now
I’m gonna put I’m gonna put on my glasses no we’re we’re gonna give me Chris as somebody who has the lecture nailed and ladies and gentlemen my worshipful master I’m very proud of him um when it comes to memorization especially of these lectures the man has done the work and has absolutely nailed
It sorry he’s blushing he’s blushing yeah yeah I have gas that’s what that is what I yeahoo you smelled it give give me give me your overview the winding stairs when I say the winding stairs where do you go where’s your mind go what’s what’s happening
There I see the history of mankind from our earliest Beginnings to our most modern State that’s what I see in the winding stairs lecture what are the things that are important to us as a race how did we get here and uh what are the things that we should be working for
As people that’s 30 seconds I can tell you that’s what I see the the winding stairs lecture as what does the mentor’s manual say about the winding stairs lecture uh well it’s brief it is um yeah it’s it’s it’s it’s brief uh and it needs to be
Because there’s so much that you can expound upon once you you kind of get the the gist of it uh I’m a little hesitant to just read straight out of this okay okay um well but here’s here’s what the the the first three steps the next
Five steps and the last seven steps yes talk about the first three so none of this is secret okay right uh this is stuff from our history as a people the first three steps uh are the three uh degrees of Freemasonry right and we explain what the are Entered Apprentice
We’re on the now talking about it we’ll talk more about the Master Mason soon I can’t wait uh there’s that’s going to be a yearlong one but yeah and those steps also uh talk about uh The three principal elected officers of the lodge not in any detail in in the beginning of
The lecture we’re just saying three steps means these three things that we don’t really explain it and then we move on very quickly to the five steps right so let’s let’s go now if if you’re out there thinking what are they talking about if you just imagine a
Staircase that has 15 Steps if you go into any Lodge you’ll see it you’ll see almost every Lodge has a painting of the whing staircase some of them are really beautiful and some of them are like ours um you know just kidding totally kidding ours was painted by one of the brothers
I know I you it’s very obvious and it’s it’s awesome homemade in that it’s been there forever and it was done by one brother but I went to a lodge uh and they had their picture up there and it was like wow that is that is really
Impressive anyway sorry I be even more impressive is to have a winding stairs that you could walk while you’re doing the and if my comment about the picture hanging on our wall at our lodge offends you please feel free to email me at Chris oh hey now they’re not that
Stupid they’re like I just want to tell you what that guy Fred I disagreed with what he said about that so some somewhere is in the five steps yeah uh are five columns yeah and those are usually represented somewhere in a lodge too where you can see them yeah now talk
About the columns so the five columns are are actual orders of architecture in human history and uh I’m not an architect but it has sparked my interest in it um and so we talk about the Tusk and the Doric Ionic the Corinthian and the composite and we break down where
Those were created in time and history and who we should attribute that creativity to and who who gets credit for things maybe they shouldn’t get credit for in architecture and history that is part of our lecture um I won’t go into detail about the orders of architecture necessarily unless you want
To no uh because it’s pretty straightforward if you’re interested in architecture you can go read about these things you can read who created them um and you know I think it’s pretty cool I went to Greece I stayed in Athens and you know I could see the pantheon from
My where I was staying right and uh Athena’s Temple there a completely Doric Temple everything in Greece is built in the Dork style and it’s just so beautiful uh especially having the background now in Freemasonry that I have that I’ve researched architecture a little bit more and I understand that
The Greeks invented you know this type of architecture which is the foundation of the architectures that we still use today the White House is pulling from those you know some absolutely is the the entire all the architecture in Washington DC including the way the street is laid out uh from point to
Point is completely Masonic as every every Mason knows and is very proud of and what does masonry do but honor the traditions in the history of mankind yeah that’s right and if you’re gonna honor the traditions in the history you’re always GNA want to go back as far as you can
Uh because that’s probably going to be the most original thought that man had was in the beginning and then it’s modified and adjusted over time and to rever something is to rever the original right that’s true of anything collect collectors want the oldest thing the thing that’s the least printed or
Whatever yeah uh that’s what masonry does we rever the original um and the creative thoughts that man mankind had uh it blows my mind think about what was done in the culture of the Greeks from architecture to literally inventing um the amphitheater and arts oh I know and
Philosophers who created entire ways of thinking about the world and and each other uh it just blows my mind of how much originality and creativity existed in that Greek culture that gave birth to everything that we take for granted in society today yeah that’s right they
They were the first to uh corporately uh pursue um human thought you know deeper and deeper thoughts why are we here you know and and you know why is there something rather than nothing now that’s L light nits that came M much later but Aristotle um who explored all of these
Philosophies I don’t agree with everything Aristotle did or or Socrates or any any of them but that’s good that means you’re a thinking man that means I’m a thinking man but the fact that any man who’s who studies uh the you know the classics uh Classic Education or the Seven Liberal Arts and
Sciences um is is training his mind in a process of critical thinking of of thinking for himself through every issue and and as you guys know you’ve heard me talk about this before I’m a big proponent of that know what you believe and know why you believe it and be able
To resp responsibly articulate it with gentleness and Grace to anybody who asks you because we all have we all believe stuff um and I’m finding more and more men who strongly believe stuff who they can’t explain but when I press them they cannot explain it to me well they don’t
Believe it they’re they’re just telling you what somebody else believed well and what they heard somebody else say true that that’s the truth uh but at the end of the day I I want to press people not to in insult them or humiliate them or make myself look like anything better
Than them but I want every man especially Masons to clearly know what they believe and why they believe it masonry uh is not a religion but we have lots of religious people and I want them to clearly understand what it is they believe and why they believe it so that
All of us can benefit together corporately from what we’ve all learned about our sincerely held beliefs and I think I think that that that Pursuit Of Education and knowledge uh and thinking critically um is is what sparks that that’s what sparked an entire world yeah of thinking
Men it’s what sparked you know the higher education the The Higher Learning you know and and name the what the Seven Liberal Arts and Sciences go grammar rhic logic arithmetic geometry music and astronomy excellent excellent see I told you guys um and and the the beauty of uh I guess we’re
Getting into the seven lver Arts and Sciences next makes sense it’s the last seven steps it makes sense and and just a side note going back to the the five steps and the columns um if you’re new to masonry or if you’re wondering anything about masonry looking into uh
The way masonry weaves that into the learning and teachings of masonry is brilliant beautiful masterful utterly brilliant I would encourage anyone to take the time to go in there there’s there’s a famous poster of the pillars um and in that poster it has all kinds of masonic uh teachings I I if I
Can find it I’ll try to post it so uh so you guys can look it up and see it but uh anyways the five the five steps and the Five Pillars take the time do yourself a favor take the time and try to understand what that teaching
Teaching is the one thing you’ll come away with is that uh if you’re if you’re not a Mason but you’re considering masonry the one thing you’re going to find out right away is this is no joke uh this is not um this it’s no joke man
It’s Ser it’s Ser we’re serious uh about education and and and and the things that we want to learn and teach each other and it’s all for a very specific purpose that was interesting yeah this is uh fun that we’re good we’re still good we’re we’re good it’s fall falling
Down but we’re good nobody got hurt we’re fine no no no host was hurt in the filming of this podcast uh I don’t know where I was let’s go let’s go just totally interrupted your thought that’s that’s okay because it was going nowhere no it was you’re right what you’re
Saying is right that this lecture alone is the reason people come to a fellowcraft degree okay they come to hear this lecture and I’ve heard this lecture given by a gentleman a brother sorry who uh did it in 15 minutes I recorded him if you can imagine I was there uh it
Starts to lose a lot of potency when it’s just words that are monotone delivered and in that short of a time frame I think it needs to be 30 to 40 minutes probably I we we had the fortune to have a grand orator come to our lodge
And deliver this oh I remember that yeah that was great he didn’t take 15 minutes he took closer to 40 minutes right right and when you can take the time to animate yourself to uh use your hands and your body to assist in telling the
Story uh and we in our lodge even use light shows and uh other ways of uh highlighting some of the points in the story it’s it’s just like a magical experience I don’t know how else to put it oh it really is it really is yeah it’s something worth coming and
Sitting through just to that lecture and once you start learning that lecture you’re going to spend a lot of time going down many rabbit holes to try to understand what it is you’re saying what does that word mean fully right I’ve never heard that word used in English
Language but right and it what it speaks to is that masonry believes that unless you pursue um critically think through and pursue knowledge um you will remain in darkness and that is the basis of all higher education higher learning and of course Society has benefited uh the
United States of America was founded uh on certain very specific principles of Higher Learning uh of you know of Truth and Higher Learning and and men who who sought and and dug you know through truth and and educated themselves that’s what that’s what we teach that’s what we
Encourage it gets lost I mean it I I talked to a lot of men uh in masonry and it’s lost on a lot of guys I’ll be honest with you and um God bless them they’re not doing anything wrong but people come to Freemasonry for for different reasons
Yeah and but if if you’re if you’re out there and you’re the kind of guy that likes to dig into into things and wants to educate himself then masonry especially the fellowcraft degree is for you you’re not going to get any of this by not being a Mason I can tell you that
Right now so uh that’s my my pitch go down to your local Lodge uh and and talk to them and uh and ask some questions get your questions answered and and jump in and uh and do this because that’s we’re serious masonry is very serious about educating yourself out of Darkness into
Light so that you could be useful for the grandm um right for you know for for the grand architect of the universe so that so that you could be useful because if you’re in darkness and you don’t understand and you’re not able to reasonably articulate the thing rhetoric that’s
Rhetoric that you can art reasonably articulate that which you believe then then you’re not useful um in in the things that you believe so you can learn and learn and learn but if you cannot articulate them to the masses to your friends to anybody they’re they’re really not useful to anyone but yourself
And that’s a rabbit hole that I’m glad I went down yeah I mean that’s you sound like you could be a Pitch man for Freemasonry now no no no no no you need to come to the open houses and uh do exactly that uh that’s exactly what
People want to hear that aren’t Masons so I hope they’re listening to the podcast I hope so too I hope our podcast is reaching out to I know we do have some yeah we have some I know a couple people that I because they know us I
Guess they listen but they’re not Masons and they’re interested and they say oh what is EA what is FC why you guys say that you should say what it means so try we’ll try to be more mindful of that for you guys that don’t know what EA is
Entered Apprentice talking about the FC which is the fellowcraft and uh right now we’re talking about the winding stairs lecture and how important it is as a representation of Freemasonry now in the seven Lial Arts and Sciences what does one of those seven stand out to you as
Important or touch you as like a something close to your heart to me rhetoric going back to rhetoric I love to speak um I’ve spoken in front of large large crowds and it doesn’t phase me um I AB I absolutely love it and I think I there are some men um who I
Follow who are absolute genius orators they can when they speak um they can just they can drive a point home with uh you know with such Clarity and with such uh with such um uh just such power you know and it just it just touch some men have that ability
You know they said Spurgeon uh was a he was a a preacher uh in the 18 late 1800s um and they said that he could he could make you cry by pronouncing the word oratory really that he he was so good wow uh at and he was and he was and and
The the proof is in in his life and Ministry but anyway so to me that word that that one sticks out the most because like I said H like I was saying all the knowledge that you’ve acquired um it it doesn’t help anyone but yourself unless you can articulate it
Clearly with gentleness and respect you know I can articulate what I believe and why I believe it with gentleness and respect to anybody who wants to listen so for me it’s rhetoric what about you you know I thought rhetoric was a bad thing when I started learning that
Lecture and I had to actually I mean I know what we say about rhetoric right doesn’t sound bad rhetoric’s fallen on Hard Times yeah I mean it got a bad R cuz I thought it was a negative thing whenever I hear rhetoric it’s usually oh the rhetoric is blah it’s in a negative
Thing right but it’s not it’s just what you said it means speaking in a way being able to articulate that which you believe in an effective Manner and it’s important to mankind that we develop this skill of exactly speaking in a way that can influence people and and get
Them to do things or not do things depending on your goal yeah and I think one of the reasons why it’s fallen on such hard times is because um we don’t know how to disagree with each other anymore right right there is no more communicating eloquently between people disagree anymore and if you’ve
Listened to this podcast for any like the time you know you know I’m big on that I I want to be able to sit down and talk with the people that I disagree with and still remain brothers and Friends yes and we had a worshipful master uh up in Bradenton who uh wants
To challenge us on uh I’m not going to use his name so just in case because I haven’t spoken to him about this but uh he wants to challenge us on something we said on one of our podcasts and I and he’s he’s yes and he’s not to be this is
A man who knows his stuff so uh I really really that’s the point of the podcast that’s the point of the podcast you thought about it you heard something and you were like I don’t think that way I I don’t agree with that way I think his words were if and and
Email us brother I know you’re listening if uh if I get this wrong but I think you said you’d like to challenge us on a couple of points and I would say to that thank you and uh yes and I would even be willing uh if you are to to have you
Come on and we could talk about it because first thing the man uh he’s a great or he’s his rhetoric his ability to speak and to engage a crowd is is really well he’s really good at it so you’re saying good things now we can say
His name his name is worful Brian Miller of manity lodge number shout out to worful Miller I was afraid you were going to say bad things and that’s why you didn’t want to say he kind of intimidates me a so maybe that’s why I’m I’m being a little doish here it’s the
Mustache it’s the mustache he has an impressive mustache indeed he does all right so cat out of the bag hit assist with this rhetoric uh but yeah rhetoric is uh I don’t think you can be a great man in society if you haven’t developed those skills of communicating I agree
And and the person who has good rhetoric needs to be a gentle soul with it yeah because you can really run over people oh yeah and I’ve done it I’ve done it um when I get going I’m very I feel very strongly about the things I believe and
And once I get going I can really run over people because I’ve thought it all through um and I’m able to articulate it because I’ve done it so many times it is a power that you have to have like responsibility for that power absolutely because we don’t want to win an argument
We want to win the man yes right that’s the hearts and the minds the hearts and the minds of of men and and help them to find that you know that what do we want to say we’re in the fellowcraft degree so we want to get them to that inner
Middle Chamber where they they can finally get paid the wages of a working man that’s it man that’s that’s what we want we don’t want to win an argument we don’t want to talk you into anything that you don’t want to do what we want
Want you to do is to find what we have found yeah light light in the darkness light in the darkness so you asked a question what’s mine and uh it’s it’s going to be strange but music um I didn’t think about about music the way that I do
Until I got the fellowcraft lecture and they explain music and I’m not going to give that explanation on the air because some of that is probably coded and not to be said but everyone’s heard music okay so we can talk about that experience of hearing music and it is a
Science because you can manipulate someone with sound just like you can with words you can use your words to get somebody amped up to go into a fight you can use music to get somebody amped up to go into a fight AB you can elicit that same emotion with sound yeah and
You you said uh a man can make him cry by saying this word eloquently well music can make you cry without saying a word just from The Sound um and there are base elements of mankind in music for example uh I do a lot of research
When I learn lectures if you can’t tell uh music music uh and that’s why we love you it ties into nature so when you hear a chirping bird that high pitched it sounds beautiful to you because you know that it’s safe and it’s not something you’re going to eat it’s something you
Just want to appreciate but when you hear a bar tone you know that’s a big animal probably scary probably going to eat me and it elicits that fear sensation where spine you know the chill goes down your spine and the Hair St up in your neck cuz you’re terrified for your life and
Your testicles get sucked up into your cavity because you’re about to fight for your life all right there’s a there’s an image for you it’s true that’s a natural reaction you have to a sound and so using those sounds in combination with Melodies produces music which elicits
Emotions and that is a science you can almost guarantee a person will react a certain way if you combine the right notes and Melodies uh and you I’m not a musician which is why I said this will see seems strange to you I don’t play instruments you do uh so I’m sure you
Can reaffirm what I’m saying to a certain degree or maybe you can crab all over it see so first things first uh worshipful Burns taught himself uh to play classical piano so yeah he’s not much of a musician just saying I mean in that I don’t understand music theory I
Can’t read music I’m not a true musician you know people that have put time in and have talent I’m just memorizing things that’s a great point because true musicians are the people that actually do the work I’m musical just as you are but I have not put in the work either
But I can tell you this um music as We Know It uh is it’s it’s mathematics first thing it’s advanced mathematics um and it’s it is like you said it is so tied into to life and nature um the the Triad you know the three note Triad that
Makes a chord you know the the chord of a is a c and e if you play an A and A C and an e simultaneously it makes the chord of a uh and and when you look at the neck of a guitar and you see how the
Scales a b CDE E F G and the way the notes the half notes and whole notes run together you look at this thing and you think to yourself This is clearly no accident this is and and like you said and I love your analogy the birds the
Birds are out there singing notes yeah that you can play on a piano hello is anybody is this thing on I mean I mean it’s it just it speaks to and so if it’s in nature where did it come from well and it it came from God of course it
Came from the Creator and uh it it says in Psalm 19 um which is Solomon’s father David wrote that uh the heavens declare the glory of God and the sky speaks uh of his wonders and and and it really does everywhere you go speaks that there there’s an architectural engineering design to all
This stuff even the bird chirping in the in the key of E and and and some of those birds I I’m absolutely mesmerized by by the music that they sing yeah I mean how can you not be all right that’s kind of the point but mine’s rhetoric
Yours is M go ahead personal that’s how we feel right those are the things we’re drawn to but that doesn’t mean and again we’re not telling you what Freemasonry thinks we’re telling you what Fred and Chris think that’s correct yeah keep that in mind they’re all
Important I’m sure uh all of them are I think the the most important to masonry is got to be geometry though right I agree I mean that’s that’s science that’s mathematics that’s architecture all kind of rolled into one yeah that’s right geometry and and geometry is is
The basis of how we how we originally discovered everything through uh geometry and and it it is literally the study the study of what what did Newton say he said it’s thinking God’s thoughts after him right that’s that’s what it is you’re thinking God’s thoughts after him
Um and you’re pursuing the thoughts you know that he would have you pursue and geometry is is the the application of that thought yeah that’s good I like that that’s too deep for me I’m not that smart guys that’s good but you know Freemasonry and geometry are very closely tied
Together uh operative Masons use geometry to build things so speculative masonry uses geometry to teach things right it makes sense um and you know the use of geometry throughout history like you said uh it came from an observation of nature right that’s how we discovered geometry and how we refined it too by
Observing nature nature and how it was employed and how you can repeat that and that’s where science comes into play science is Where You observe test and if you can record the same outcome you’ve got a proven scientific method that’s been applied to to prove that this is a
Thing and that’s how we learn the nature of God is through observation and testing um and you know that goes to these are the things that we know because we have tested them through time and we’ve used them and we still use them there’s a lot of things uh when we
Get into astronomy that we don’t know and astronomy is where my brain starts to hurt uh because I don’t know I’m not capable of fully understanding the concepts of what they’re talking about in science when you think about astronomy uh but I do like what Freemasonry talks about with astronomy
Which is more of like your creator created these things that are there and not everything is meant for you to understand its purpose but it absolutely serves a purpose and is there for a reason and all we can do is Observe and test and and and record the outcomes of
The things that we look at and it’s very difficult because we’re on an object that’s spinning around a thing that’s spinning and a universe full of things that are spinning and so you don’t have a a very easy way to study things in space uh but we’ve been trying to do it
From the dawn of mankind many religions are based on what people observed in the heavens right like we see objects and so we assign them things that relate to us and this is how you get a strong uh I don’t know what is the word for uh uh
When you were born you look at it and you’re like oh you’re that sign it’s a oh astrology astrology yes I’m a Scorpio apparently are you really yeah yeah everyone’s saying oh yeah yeah he is I’m a Pisces so it makes I think we’re definitely fitting those
Descriptions right I I don’t know I I never paid much attention to it uh but my wife says that uh I am living proof that astronomy is real it’s true I mean it is Eerie sometimes how close that that is right right but the reality of
It is kind of silly when you think about come on well but it’s based on observation the Stars weren’t in the same place though when b as are so you know it’s all kind of nonsense in reality a scientific perspective as a I mean as a Christian I have a very
Specific set of beliefs that I’ve investigated and and that I hold to Astron astronomy is not part of that yeah but I find it fascinating yeah because it’s correct like what that’s so me I know can’t believe it but numerology too comes from you know similar kind of ideas that you can
Assign these everyday things bigger meanings that you can then predict what’s going to happen based on you know where the stars were or where the numbers align yeah I you know and there are people who hold to those those kind of but but numbers mean a lot yes I mean
You know the number three the number seven the number 10 those are very very if you’re out there and you’re a Christian like I am then you know what those those numbers represent um because they they have meaning to us you know and other religions um and you know
Other people those they have num numbers numerology it it’s meaningful I don’t want to go down the numerology rabbit hole right now but um there could probably be an entire podcast just numerology it’s deep I mean it goes really deep but again we it comes back
To the same thing you know what is it that you believe and why do you believe it you know and are you able and willing um to articulate it in a way to a brother or a friend or a neighbor uh in a way that’s gentle and respectful that
They they might say hm that’s interesting I I’ll think about that you know because no nobody nobody wants to hear uh you know what they have to believe or what they’re supposed to believe or any of that stuff cramming beliefs down anyone’s throat is the
Wrong way to go it just it just doesn’t work because it’s a belief it’s not authentic if you haven’t yeah come to that point of your own accord I’ve come to the conclusion in I’m 60 years old I’ve been doing this a little while I’ve come to the conclusion that
Living living yes living and dying I’m not sure I think at half the halfway point do you go from living anyway actually I saw a documentary we start dying the moment we’re born oh cool yeah oh thanks for that that’s really positive I know that’s nice that’s nice
Definitely want to show that to your seven-year-old all right I’m I saw I’m just going to hit the reset button we’re going to leave all those rabbit Trails where we went I want to read this final um fellowcraft the responsibilities of a fellowcraft uh it’s in the manual I want to read it
And then let’s uh let’s go out kind of expounding a little bit on that okay uh and then again guys Chris and I are we’re kind of rambling on about the fellowcraft degree trying to touch on the points that mean something to us but I’m gonna I’m G to
Spend the next several months like I did in the EA degree I just got through going through the EA degree and I spent a long time in it just studying it for myself trying to understand what it means to me I’m going to do the same thing in fellowcraft I’ll probably spend
The next year just going through it on my in my personal time you know just just to understand it uh and I would encourage every man uh to to do that because I did it for like three months when I was learning the lecture like deep into the ideas in the lecture all
Right so in in the manual the uh the section on fellowcraft ends like this uh the responsibilities of a fellowcraft are are to be found in his obligation and the candidate should be asked to review the obligation of both this and the first degree so Brothers get out there and review your
Obligations review them over and over again and if you’re amazing you know what that means yeah however the fellowcraft is reminded that he is committed to both the acquisition of knowledge and the application of that knowledge to the discharge of the duties of his life so that he may so that he
May fill with satisfaction and honor his place in society and that’s really what we’re all about uh you know we all have a place uh in society uh and masonry teaches us to to honor uh to to live a life an honorable life uh of of Aid to
Others uh you know that’s our our stock and trade is mankind you know I uh if you ever have a chance to read uh Jacob Marley’s uh monologue from uh from A Christmas Carol it it’ll it just it’s it’s lifechanging and it was just so good Dickens was such a genius I’m um
Possibly gonna give a 50-year presentation award at our next sted meetings so I’ve been brushing up on that ritual which is in the Blue Book okay the this blue Masonic monitor which is written out which ritual this is uh Masonic this Blue Book includes prayers uh charges funeral ceremonies and award
Presentations and it’s all uncoded which means nothing in here secret if it’s written out and um this is what it says in the 50-year presentation 50y year presentation that’s what okay that in youth you were taught your duty to God your neighbor and yourself in manhood
You applied those lessons so that in age you can enjoy the happy reflection consequent upon a life well spent nice that’s the meaning of life learn your learn your lessons do your best to apply those lessons because then you get to reap the rewards in age of not looking
Back with regret about all the poor decisions that you made and the people that you hurt and the opportunities that you missed and the times you could have stood up for someone and you didn’t uh you won’t be that person you’ll be the person looking back thinking it could
Have been worse I did I did my best I let it I laid it all on the table when I’m judged for mys I’ll stand by everything I did yeah um right I I I couldn’t help that struck me and and D it I’m almost Without Words which is
Almost impossible um but uh find some I so I so wish somebody in my life would have introduced me to this yeah I mean I know as a young man because um if only you had been watching repeats of Star Trek exactly exactly uh I mean it really
Would have impacted my life in such a big way and that’s one of the reasons why you and I are here man we want I want to see when I see young men um approaching uh masonry and taking it seriously there’s a lot of young men in
In masonry but when I see these rare jewels of young men who are taking it seriously and wanting to apply to their lives um you know the the things that it teaches uh it does my heart good to know that you know there’s hope there’s you know there’s always hope there our hope
Is in God okay first and foremost our hope is in God but uh through uh through through Men of Integrity uh who are willing to sacrifice uh for their Community um is is that’s the path man that’s the way and that’s that’s one of the main things that masonry
Teaches this will sound cliche I it it sounds cliche in my mind before I even say it so I know it’s going to but I truly believe it but could there be a more important point in time where we need to learn the lessons of Freemasonry
Than today if I had a bell I’d be ringing it right now like respect tolerance education thinking seems like oldfashioned ideas now that just aren’t really right you look at any it’s not just America you look at any country almost any country in the world and it just doesn’t seem like anyone values
Those things anymore it’s all sensational ISM now now quick quick laugh judge yeah and how’s that going horrible horrible but it only seems to be accelerating yeah oh it is it absolutely is I mean could there be a more important and the thing is that people don’t believe a thing until they
See a thing and I think we might have talked about this before uh you know this there was a a track record that was held for years that was thought to be unbeatable for so long and when it was finally beat it was beat again like three more times within the following
Few years because people don’t believe a thing is possible until they see it oh yeah I love that analogy somebody’s got to do it somebody’s got to do the thing that everybody else think is impossible and right now I think everybody thinks it’s impossible to live a life of
Integrity I think they think it’s impossible to live a life of Truth and Justice right the step on somebody you know they just don’t believe it’s possible in this day and age to live that life so if you can be the guy to show them they can do it that’s how you
Can make it actually happen because people need to see it first yeah that’s right that’s right generally they’re they’re just not capable of doing it until they see a leader step up and do it and you can be the leader I um I I’ll I’ll end with this personal note um
About I don’t know five years ago or so I just had this I I spend I spend my mornings about an hour every morning studying um through you know prayer medit ation and studying um the word and uh because that’s what Christians are supposed to do Hello uh let’s get on
That people um I spend mind studying a masonic ritual there you go there you go hey man know what you believe and why you believe it right um and this this this overwhelming sense came over me that uh my I started to pray Lord I I
Want to know 10 good men yeah 10 10 strong good men that I can rely on uh that can rely on me because I think times are going to get tough yeah and I think we’re going to need a group of men uh who are willing to sacrifice for each
Other protect and provide for their own families and for the families of others um and I’m going to get in trouble for this but within their own tribe within their own Community within their own group and I’m not talking about colors of skin or anything I’m just talking
About relationships you have people that in your realm that you know to take care of each other and and I just kept praying about that and I I looked in all the everywhere I looked I just became more and more disappointed until uh I came to Freemasonry and I
Didn’t find 10 good men in Freemason I found hundreds of them and I got to tell you I could I could get emotional over this but last night we were at a Master Mason association meeting yeah and I was sitting in the back corner looking over
All these guys and it hit me again that same feeling 10 good men Lord Lord I want to know where do I go to find 10 good men who who in times of trouble will rally uh to protect each other to protect whatever protect the the flag for goodness sakes protect the country
Um protect whatever help you protect your home help you protect your own home yeah and I found that uh in masonry and and I’m so grateful for it and and to all the brothers um that I run into and that I talk to I I know they got my back
Yeah uh and and I’ve got theirs and where you going to find that bro where where else in the world you going to find I haven’t either to be honest with you I just haven’t I mean and I’ve had ideas about thinking this was reality since I was a child right and I’m
Walking around in life going uh it was TV this is not real uh until I got into Freemasonry and that’s what really connected me to it is I had these ideas from childhood right and this science fiction thing it was teaching that Integrity honesty standing up for what’s
Right being part of something bigger than yourself tolerance for other people you don’t understand like these were Concepts that were getting drilled into me as as a kid and they’re here in Freemasonry so that’s why I take it so seriously because it’s very personal to
Me and um that’s why I take it so seriously when I see others not taking it seriously I know I know and that can get me in trouble sometimes because like you said in the beginning everyone’s here for a different reason they they they shouldn’t be here for the same
Reason I am not everybody no that’s right that’s right we we hope that every everybody listening everyone we run into can catch the bug like like worshipful Chris has and like like I have I hope um and really just kind of get just get to that place uh in your
Life where you want something more you want you want to be what man doesn’t want to be in a Band of Brothers yeah and we all want a Band of Brothers well well I I believe that uh this upsurge uh in masonry because that’s a fact it is definitely on the upsurge
Uh throughout the whole country maybe even the whole world and I think it is this hunger um that men have for that Band of Brothers man I want Brothers in my life that I can trust that I can I could I could trust with my wife and my
Children uh you know with with my home with my back you know and that and that they’ve got me that’s my Band of Brothers well I I have that and I hope you listening out there have that too and if you don’t then uh I would suggest
Get outside your Lodge and visit some more get get get out you’ll see it if you get around a little bit yeah that’s right that’s right come to Grand Lodge and see us we’ll give it to you oh nice plug nice segue bro nice I’m getting
Good at this he’s getting good at this money no there’s no money here there’s no money in this actually um I hope you do come to Grand Lodge and I hope you do meet us because we really want to meet you guys we want to hear from you and just shake
Your hand and get any kind of knowledge or feedback we can from you because it’ll just make it better and your criticisms will make it better too so don’t hold back you don’t have to play Kate to us we want to hear the real deal of what you think of what we’re doing
Because we want to do a good job uh and you know you’re going to see more on our social media uh we’re trying to be uh we we’re funny guys we’re not just in into the intellectuals and not just funny looking well that I I maybe
Me more than you but one of us is uh being funny looking is not all bad that’s right some people make a good look in it being funny looking uh sorry I totally bumped you off your mark go you our podcast is the purpose of it is
For us to get an outlet to talk about our thoughts on Freemasonry and we do that yep but being joke and funny and entertaining isn’t necessarily what we’re here to do if we do it that’s just because that’s who we are but on social media we can you can see a little bit
More of that side of us and how uh we can use free masonry to be funny um and make points through humor you were saying that memes are the last true method of what were you telling me about M the last vesage of free speech Free Speech uncensored speech our memes yeah
Yeah and we’re going to use that to talk about Freemasonry what we think about Freemasonry it’s going to be awesome yeah um and we uh we’re really excited to get in front of people that because we’re just talking to each other right but when we talk to you like he said we
Had a woral mess that heard one of the podcasts and podcasts and said I disagreed with something I want to challenge you on it man that that’s like I got excited yes absolutely let’s do it on the air especially the man that we’re talking about the caliber of brother that we’re talking
About worshipful say I was listening to what you said there and here’s what I think about it and he told me and I was like man so many good thoughts out there so many different points of views and we want them we want them we want you to
Articulate them to us with gentleness and respect yes please with the gentleness gentleness and respect please uh but we we we would love to sit down with anybody and talk with anybody to wrap up the fellow the fellowcraft uh degree personally Fred speaking here uh my favorite degree I’m just GNA head
Long dive into it over the however long I want to uh and really understand it and and get inv and and get into it um I’m going to read a lot of books I’m going to ask a lot of questions and I hope you will too what about you Chris
What are you doing okay uh I’m excited to get into the Master Mason degree but we don’t want to just bore you guys with all ritual and Masonic degree Deep dive so give us some subjects that you are curious about our opinions on yeah show topics out there yeah send them
Absolutely you want to hear what do you guys think about this or this what I think about something and I’m curious what you think about it send it to us because we’re we want to actually shoot a few of those out there before we delve into the Master Mason degree absolutely
And just just for the brother uh who’s shouting at his uh at his iPhone right now because early on he sent us an email giving us several topics and suggestions we have not forgotten about you brother and those will be included perfect that’s exactly what we need other than
That uh I’m about to go on a birthday a weekend birthday trip camp in so I’m going to go get some nature and OBS observe god wow no kidding so what 35 37 going be now 48 48 I’ll be 48 actually on the night of our next day of
Communication 48 and my wife’s coming to dinner because she said wait you going to Lodge in your birthday and I said uh I kind of have to it’s been on the calendar for six months I told you about it I’m like this would be one of those
Times maybe you could come and we could have dinner together so she will be at Lodge for dinner on our next day of communication Tuesday always awesome to see your wife so that’s that’s great that’s a treat man all right my brother we are an hour in and I think that’s
Enough uh down with the fellowcraft uh next would be um The Master Mason but we’ll probably throw a couple of uh I don’t know something in the in the in the mix there let’s let’s do a couple of fun podcasts and then we’ll jump back
Into Master Mason um well I want to go deeper and I want to be a little more organized with it but I do like our organic janky kind of back and forth I don’t want to I don’t want to mess with this too much but I do want to bring a little
More deeper deeper subject matter when we get into Master Mason because that one is heavy it is yep Chris I love you brother love you too and I’ll see you on the next show man all right looking forward to it
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