Then we have to decide is what to do with the time of the Skers you’ve reached the internet’s home for all things masonry join on the level podcast as we Plum the depths of our ancient craft and try to unlock the Mysteries dispel the fallacies and utilize the teachings of Freemason to unlock the greatness with in each of us I have you Now let’s go there it is haven’t heard that in a hot minute all right yeah welcome back to on the level podcast that was cut off on the Applause yeah well you know we have to it’s like a laugh track if you don’t then people don’t know you did something cool [Laughter]
I need to get a laugh track in here so when we say jokes you hear it yeah really oh I I have uh yeah that’s not I don’t know that’s like a the kind of laugh we probably want but no let’s run it I mean the world thinks we’re weirdos anyway so
Might as well babies did you say babies yeah now there’s a sound clip for you take it out of context and use it all you need yeah exactly some bad Minister out of Arizona is going to clip it no I mean listen when I’ll tell the story
Remind me to come back and tell the story but first I want to introduce Our Guest today or actually I’d like you to introduce yourself Matt tell the listeners of unlevel podcast uh just give us your name your your your extended Masonic history and we’ll go from there uh you’re being too generous
So uh my name is Matt Stone um I am from Turkey Creek Lodge 248 um and I was raised December 9th so long ago of 2023 uh so I’ve been a a Mason for all of about a little over two months I think it is um so yeah uh now
Um you know right after I got raised uh to the sublime degree of Master Mason uh I was installed as Junior Deacon I was appointed catechism instructor um yeah there we go oh yeah work yeah the grot already got my petition York rights got my petition so we’ll see what happens it
Two months in and this is pretty pretty typical uh we see the Masons come in we see them join appendant bodies and get into the line and then you look like the [ __ ] peer in three years uh We’ve sucked all the life out of you and your wife
Hates Freemason uh she doesn’t hate it yet luckily uh so my my cable toe is a remarkably patient woman um I cannot compliment her enough um and of course you know we have a 2-year-old here so the 2-year-old keep keeps her busy um you know so so long as I keep that kind
Of back and forth of making sure that I’m a husband first a dad second um you know I think she’ll be okay with me in my extracurricular activities that’s awesome I mean uh communication’s key obviously as long as you’re both communicating and the expectations are set you won’t be disappointed or upset
Yeah and and the thing is you know I try to like on family nights or Lodge nights I try to bring you know my wife and my daughter up to the lodge and you know there’s a lot of of nice sweet old ladies from the Eastern Star that that
Really help us out with food of course if I keep eating their food I’m going to keep putting on weight so they got to become healthc conscious quick yeah it’s rare you find like a salad or anything healthy at a masonic meal we we love our
Carbs and our Meats for sure oh yeah oh yeah I was I was CH chatting back and forth with another Mason and so we were laughing about how the World Views masonry and one of the things that we were talking about I was like you know I I can’t remember talking about global
Domination between plates of lasagna yeah I know yeah I was talking to I I saw I was watching the news when I was working out this morning I now got a TV in the gym so I I just played the news which is really does I mean a lot
Of people listen to angry music yay try listening to the news you’ll get real upset and it really gets your adrenaline going um it works for me yeah I I imagine our current Administration um could benefit from a stair Master uh but that’s a joke that’s about two years old
So like uh at the guy’s 80 something I mean at that point it’s like he’s just as long as he doesn’t walk you’re like oh he looks half decent you know but the second he walks you’re like oh as long as he doesn’t try to operate like a human he does
Well just profit it’s like weeked Bernie’s president Style just yeah exactly like his hand are over there like trying to flail him around throw him in the Corvette it’s good stuff turns out our president’s been dead for three years and they’ve just been bringing him to events news headlines that wouldn’t Shock Me
For 500 Alex like I mean no they were they did like because you know it’s always everything is sports now even politics so oh yeah Channel and they did like a side by side matchup like it’s a fight like age weight BL it’s like wow
Okay uh is anyone gonna pay to go see George Foreman fight like whatever old fat fighter still is out there like no no one’s going to pay to no one wants to see this matchup okay yeah honest with you we want a real competition like what
Is this crap 100% I mean there there’s a lot of things that I’ve kind of tuned out on the last couple of years and politics is yeah politics is among them just because whenever you actually look at it you can see just how whether you want to call it rigged whether you want
To call it selected no matter what like if you look at you know because I’m I’m kind of more I wouldn’t say libertarian these days but I am more centered than I have been previously and so the thing is you probably haven’t changed they’ve changed your positions have stayed the
Same so you’re labeled now a little differently maybe than you were label before but I bet that you haven’t changed your viewpoints a whole lot 100% I mean I got a couple of Hardline sticking points but it’s like they get up there they get their sound bite in
Some Congressional hall and then it’s like oh we’re going to go after him and then nothing happens and then it’s oh we’re going to do this and defend these people and then nothing happens and then it’s like oh we’re going to invade this other country again and I’m like come on
Enough enough is enough it’s true that’s how we were I was telling my wife you know they’re changing election laws and everything’s always getting redone and I was telling her this is how you make a new world order it’s not masonry it’s not what we do trust me there’s no
Connection between what we do in our lodges um or any of the appendant bodies which I’m a member of all of them that I have ever seen that compares to what politics globally are doing to us as a as a species like if there’s to be a new
World order it’s strictly happening at the corporate level it is not it’s not tied to a secret organization that can’t get their rent paid trust me yeah for real yeah that actually brings up a question so I was going to ask you and I’ve asked a couple people this in
Masonry is there a significance of the coins because I haven’t seen anything yet in in my grand two months of being a Master Mason what’s the significance of the coins now I haven’t seen anything well they’re they’re called challenge coins and it’s just a little game that
We play with each other so the premise is that you if you have you should have the coin on you at all times and if I see you at a bar and I demand to see your coin and you can’t produce it you have to buy my drink if I demand the
Coin and you produce it I have to buy your drink so it’s a little drinking game we play with each other called the challenge coin so I the only coin I got was from Florida’s Grand Lodge uh the uh District deputy came in and you know
Gave us a little pen for a lapel and a coin that’s the only one I have is that the one you’re talking about or is there something else like we all of like the Widow’s sons have a coin and many of the different bodies of the Scottish R in
New York R all have coins okay and you know you’ll find Freemasonry has secret organizations within secret organizations within secret organizations and they all want to be special and unique so these coins are a way that it can you it can like make you feel you’re part of the cool Club when
Somebody plays that game with you I’ve never actually seen it happen but then I don’t like hang out at bars a whole lot with G um if I do I’m already buying the drinks so I don’t really care about the game first round’s always on me you know
Yeah I’m I’m not a big bar guy but uh whenever they gave me the door code to The Grotto because I do their um I do some of their maintenance there some of their maintenance work they were like oh we’re going to give you the door code to
The Grotto and I’m like that is a terrible idea that is a patently terrible idea I need a supervisor all times yeah so who’s going to supervise you another Grotto Guy this is the blind so at so the grot is voting on Me on the 19th I believe is uh a Monday
Coming up here pretty soon so it’s funny because the the current Monarch is a buddy of mine he’s the guy who raised me actually uh Chris so shout out to Chris georgees but it was funny okay yeah that that’s the guy that uh you and I spoke
With but uh either way he goes hey do yourself a favor when we go to vote on you on the 19th make sure you’re there and I’m like why he goes because that’s also going to be your first meeting and I’m like you guys aren’t even going to
Have a discussion he goes dude you’re already locked in everybody knows you you’re fine yeah it’s it’s mainly a formality these things you can imagine how many guys are raising their hands if they don’t like a guy it’s not happening that often so yeah oh it was it was
Hilarious I was a I was still a fellowcraft uh when I filled out my petition for The Grotto um just cuz I had interacted with all those guys so much and so our worshipful this year is a guy named Dave Mason Dave Mason is 80 years old and is the picture perfect
Definition of does not care about anything I love this guy to death he’s just one of those you know he’ll tell you to f off faster than anybody so the best thing about him though is as I’m filling out the petition little pocket petition he leans back he’s got no teeth
Leans back Matt what you doing there I said well Dave I’m filling out my petition for The Grotto and he goes you know I’m a member of The Grotto I said yeah and he goes you know I’m going to vote that down I said no you’re not Dave
You want me in you want me in The Grotto he goes you’re right I don’t I’m not going to vote down but I want you in The Grotto and I said okay good he’s a great guy I love that dude to death and what was his name Dave
Mason so Dave Mason what a what a unique coincidence exactly so Mason in his name we have worshipful Mason that Mason wow so descriptive right worshipful Mason most worful Mason he needs to go all the way to the top I don’t I don’t think the the grand line would appreciate him at
All uh so quick little story about that so uh they were in a meeting I’m not going to say who the parties are but they were in a meeting talking and so uh you know Dave Dave and his crew are are group a and then Group B is you know
Complaining about something uh and so at some point and this this is the description I’ve heard from multiple people that he just leans back and just folds his hands like this and leans back in his chair and then he finally he goes are all of y’all done and they go yeah
All of us are done he goes great there’s the eff Andor if you need it d That’s gangster that’s old style gangster I love that I love him I keep telling him he’s my spirit animal so I want to be like him when I grow up my
Emotions won’t let me do that you know I’m leaning forward like blah BL I wish I could lean back and put my hands up and be like oh yeah say your silly stuff yeah yeah yeah and and even still and this is something that I really appreciate within masonry there is a
Level of just Clarity and Purity in what you’re saying Between Brothers given that brother’s heart and intention and so one of the things that I’ve noticed is yeah there is some the some of the political garbage you know especially whenever you get in some of the Grand
Lodge guys or the district guys but uh especially a lot of the local guys like you know you brought in Shan Cooney and and I think Sean’s been on the podcast before yes but um Shawn is I’ve known Shawn for five years and the first time
I ever met me or or sorry I ever met him he beat me up um to be clear he and I both do Brazilian jiu to and he just maed me I mean just destroyed me so that’s where we met the first time five years ago I mean he’s young guy too
Right he’s younger than than you or are you guys the same age I think we’re close to the same age I’m pretty sure it’s just that I’ve got a lot more mileage on me than than he does yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it is definitely the
The the miles not the years I get that but but you know talking to Sean sorry yeah he introduced me to you and uh he he he made a big deal about your master Mason degree you know he brought a contingent of brothers from our lodge in
Sarasota up to Turkey Creek Lodge which is maybe two and a half to three hour drive away i’ say something like that about an hour hour and a half yeah really yeah well I can make it an hour hour and a half I’m not suggesting everyone does it’s it’s Florida so it’s anywhere
From an hour and a half to six days it could be anywhere in that range to drive that is a factual statement and gosh the roads with all the influx of people moving into Florida it’s just getting worse yeah but the good news is with the influx of people moving to Florida that
Masonry can now flourish in Florida as you know so long as we can recruit uh effectively yeah sorry recruit recruit I just want to be clear on that they’re getting a handle on that they they’re kind of getting uh their bearings hopefully on how to recruit properly these days U we certainly
Making an effort to make sure that people know know how to do that but um you know the reason that I I wanted you to be on the podcast is uh we talked before you were Master Mason about some things that was was going on and your
Your journey to becoming a Master Mason and uh you were you told me that you listen to the podcast before you were even a Master Mason and that piqued my curiosity because you know at the at the Inception of this podcast I wanted to talk about masonry to people that aren’t
Masons this this wasn’t meant to be a for brothers podcast This was meant to be a for the world podcast so that’s why you often hear us stop and explain things that the everyday Mason already knows come on why are we doing this well it’s because we want people that don’t
Know about masonry to be able to follow along with us and see that um what we’re doing here is good and um so one of the things I asked you immediately since you were not a Master Mason and you heard all the episodes was was give me some
Feedback what would you recommend and uh you gave me some great feedback and definitely trying to implement is many of those points as I can and today uh I’m implementing one because you said you know it’ be great it’d be great to hear the Journey of a man who came in
And just follow his career as a Mason uh just kind of see how things are progressing for him and and there’s that you know honestly that should be a Netflix documentary series reality show because it’s going to be a wild ride uh you’re going to have ups and downs and
Huge winds and and really low lows um it’s going to be a roller coaster ride in Freemasonry and I’m really excited to have you on the show only two months in um now and you’ve already got the rocket pack strapped to your back and you’re going full speed right you you’ve
Already had your first meeting as an officer in a lodge two months in you already belong to one almost two appendant bodies or you’re about to belong to two appendant bodies uh one of those appendant bodies has three subdivided appendant bodies within it that you’ll probably get involved in you
Know the yorc right has the commander and and two other bodies that it’s expected that you you know they have three separate paths three separate officer groups three separate meetings every month but it’s all the orc right um and then you’re going to get into the Scottish right and they’re they have
Three separate bodies and you’re going to be more actually than three and uh you’ll be tempted to join all of them so now you’re a part of seven and the grot makes eight groups um and you know the the early in your career Master Mason and really this is the problem for all
Master Masons is you want to prove that you’re a capable person and so you say yes and you not only say yes you do everything with exuberance and zealousness um and so that can tax your time greatly and I’m really curious to see how that plays out for you your wife
Has a good opinion of free masonry two months in you’re already starting to get into the impendent bodies and I’m sure you’re going to get positions offered to you once you get in there well so and you’re church too right I’m sorry and you’re still actively involved in your
Church right yes so I’m the worship minister at my church um if that’s even a title um and to be clear I go to the nomination I go to is is much more conservative uh so we don’t use instruments or anything so it’s all AC
Capella so I get up there you know give the four time everything uh sorry I wasn’t doing the the Catholic thing but yeah I get up there and lead the songs and teach new songs assign song leaders you know all that and I teach our Young Adult class um yeah yeah so
Well I I co-teach our Young Adult class with our Minister uh guy named John who’s I I I look at John as more of a brother than I do some of my blood relatives um he is just such a phenomenal guy from Albany Georgia he’s got a great story
But um but yeah it’s it’s a lot um I’m aware that it’s a lot so at some point I’m I’m G to have to say no but I figured while my wife has the patience now yes uh it makes sense for me to do it and then at at you know for example
Back to your comment of um jumping in and doing things and doing them with with Zeal the reason why I started jumping in and I started doing the trussle board so now I’m responsible for our trussle board um which goly everyone has a different trussle board it’s
Insane so doing our trussle board uh doing catechism instruction doing uh the website it’s because nobody was doing it right you and that’s kind of the thing is it’s like all right everybody wants to sit there and complain about are we going to have enough people that are
Going to show up to a lodge meeting but yet nobody does anything right so and that’s why I wanted to talk to you at first in our first conversation was hey I’m just getting into this thing you’ve done phenomenal with 147 down in Sarasota thank you what do I do you know
And so you gave me some some phenomenal advice um which is stuff that we’re starting to implement and look at um we got a fellowcraft degree tonight actually I’m going to play I’m gonna be the Junior Deacon for the uh fellowcraft degree nice um but that’s actually for
Uh for a neighboring Lodge uh number 79 s um but they’re having the exact same issues that it seems like every Lodge is happening with the exception of 147 and 91 in Lakeland there there are a few like like there’s actually a lodge that beats me in membership every year by
Like one or two and man it chaps my high but it’s great you know because uh that just shows you like it can work and it is repeatable in different areas of the state and it really just takes passion brothers that care and are willing to
Put in a little elbow grease I mean the there’s far like what you experienced and what you are experiencing is um people have this idea that masonry is just always going to be there that I really it was there before I got here it’s going to be there when I leave like
What do I what am I going to do like it’ll be fine and they have that mentality and that perpetuates the the continued downward trend of our influence in our community and globally uh because it’s not always going to be there um and the longer people string together leadership that have that
Mentality the worst it’s going to get like we got to fight to keep this this beautiful thing alive and living it can’t just be old documents that people reference and then you go and act like a profane person in masonry no like you need to be a Mason if you’re going to be
In masonry or at least trying to be the best version of a Mason that you can be uh but far too often people are in leadership roles that aren’t even really making an effort to be Masons so it takes it takes people like yourself who come in with a lot of
Integrity um from their normal life because we say we make good men better well let’s do it like you’re a good man and uh people will say hey this guy’s a leader in his church you own your own business you have a lot of clients that
Trust you um so well how are you gonna make that guy better well we’re not we’re not he’s gonna make himself better I think that’s how Freemasonry works it it so uh it’s not necessarily an organizational issue but rather a um I don’t even know if you could call it a generational issue
Because I’ve seen it in J uh uh gen xers I’ve seen it in Boomers I’ve seen it in Millennials it’s just people get comfortable and they just don’t want to do anything and so then you develop the 820 rule where 20% of the people are doing 80% of the work yeah definitely
And that you know that maybe that’s just who we are as a species we just are hardwired and you know that laziness can actually be good for society um so a past master of my Lodge uh worshipful Steph Garcia Morales he and I wrote some legislation together this year that’s
Going to be on uh the Florida Grand Lodge ballot to introduce the Chamber of reflection back into being accepted Florida work nice more on that later but he um he does it security and when he was worshipful master he did a whole presentation on how laziness actually creates opportunities to streamline
Through processes and so it’s the lazy people that um do something about not wanting to do work that create efficiencies uh I don’t want to do the same thing two three times so I’m going to write a script that’s just going to make it all happen so your laziness can
Be harnessed to positive effect but at some point you got to do something about it right you can’t like just you know I I had suggested that I think back whenever I was an EA so the my catechism instructor was uh the worful master at the time Chris that I mentioned earlier
Uh also the guy who raised me but one of the things that I had I had noticed early on is I’m like man why is a worshipful master doing catechism instruction and it’s because nobody else did right and it’s not that I’m bashing anybody in my Lodge like you know the
Guy who was supposed to do my investigation he’s got like five kids or something like that so it’s like people are busy I get it I understand it yeah um but either way I had suggested I’m like man Chris you’re taking six eight months to do catechism instruction once
A week with me and this other guy now granted there was scotch and cigars involved so it was a good time that’s nice yeah yeah you you realize how many complaints we’re going to get on that statement right there if it’s going to be oh my gosh they drank SC while they
Did catechism instruction it’s like yes and I totally forgot all of it by the end of the night but okay as long as you weren’t doing it in the lodge room you’re fine oh no we were we were at The Grotto uh the grot was kind of our
Hangout so uh by the way uh this past Monday I did uh pass my proficiency for uh Master Mason congratulations well done thank you uh but either way I asked Chris about this I’m like Chris why don’t we have different catechism instructors for for each degree you know
So have one catechism instructor for EA one for fellowcraft one for Master Mason because I click remarkably well with fellowcraft but I was horrible at EA I was terrible and he said I would love to but apparently there’s a a law against that or there’s something against that
Like can you explain that a little bit Yeah so the the Grand Lodge of Florida has a mentors manual that’s published on the Grand Lodge website and it’s really a manual for mentors and catechis M guys because they’re supposed to work together the mentor and the catechism
Instructor those are supposed to be your first two links to the fraternity for as you said six to eight months so they should be knowledgeable people and they should be people that are going to stick with you to the end and so this isn’t written into the digest of masonic law
But it’s in the mentor’s manual and the way it’s been explained to me is we take an obligation to um observe our traditions and customs of premon so while it’s not a law it’s in the mentors manual which makes it in the adopted tradition that we’re supposed to follow
According to the digest which and our obligations uh this is how a past Grandmaster explained it to me and uh in the mentor manual it specifically states that it should be the same brother that does all three catechisms for one student it should not be different
Brothers so there’s no law against it I don’t think anyone’s G to get in trouble for doing it with a Grand Lodge it is an adopted custom not to do different people in different degrees so um my advice would be do it just don’t advertise it fair point you know maybe just don’t
Make it obvious that this is your thing but you know a lodge needs to do what a lodge needs to do to get by yeah and and my logic behind it and thinking behind it is if you’ve got a lodge where like every state of communication you’ve got
80 dudes showing up like yeah okay going to have guys that are super dedicated to the craft and they’re going to want to put in that time for the six eight months and even then you might only do one catechism instruction and then next year it’s going to be somebody else or
You might do one year of catechism and then it’s somebody else but these lodges where like our lodge you know there sometimes we struggle to get enough people to show up it lightens the workload on the catechism and structure and then the other positive benefit of
It is that it gives the the the candidate the EA the fellowcraft and then the Master Mason it gives them more exposure to more people at the lodge because you know well as I do whenever you’re there for dinner uh you know it’s like there’s the clicks like you know
Okay it’s like school like we’re going to sit at the center table on the second line and then the Past Masters are sitting at the table behind us and we all sit at the exact same table every single month so yeah it just made sense
To me but then again I’m I’m brand new at this so it’s not like I’m trying to step on anybody’s toes no I mean there’s a there’s a lodge in my district there’s a lodge miles from my Lodge and if you walk in they have a whiteboard and they
Actually have like this guy does ma Entered Apprentice catechism this guy does fellowcraft catechism and they have little dots for what candidates and which ones so um they’re advertising it and they still got a charter nobody’s pulled it and uh that’s why I’m saying it’s that’s not a rule I think because
We got such bigger fish to fry right now yeah in our fraternity of real problems I would be shocked if anyone tried to cause any drama out of the fact that you had a different instructor captain structor and you are it is in short supply and really your catechism inst
Structures according to the mentor’s manual if you’re doing catechism instruction you should have a silver card proficiency first oh 90% of the people I know doing catechism instructor do not have a silver card proficiency yeah I definitely don’t have that either uh so listen we have a lot of rules and
There are some important ones and then there are some not so important ones and I think these all are all following under the not so important rules that are getting broken yeah out of necessity because we just don’t have enough people to do the work and if you don’t have the
People you got to do the lodge needs to survive yeah so you got to do what you got to do and I can’t see Grand Lodge faulting a lodge for you know doing what it needs to keep these brothers moving through the degrees and becoming Master Masons which is the ultimate goal make
Them good make them uh have a good experience uh because if you don’t have a good experience you just went through it uh why would you keep going it’s like I don’t need this crap in my life I got enough stress uh I’m paying money I’m
Doing a lot of work and I’m not having fun N I think I’m out on this and that’s what happens a lot of times they just decide it’s the squeeze isn’t the juice isn’t worth a squeeze as they say in the fraternity for some people well I just
Figured I would take the Jeremy Barnes approach with Amity and it’s just I’m just GNA go ahead and do it and then ask for permission whenever I get caught look at he’s a pretty successful Mason U and there you go that’s his because I took the other approach I went and got
Permission and my project died because of it oh my goodness I was so disheartened whenever I heard that because I was listening to the Jeremy Barnes podcast on my way here to um for because that just posted yesterday but um yeah but either way as soon as you
Said that you’re like yeah Grand LOD shut down you know yours with the you know the business owners and whatnot because it’s for financial gain I’m like no I wanted that so bad because do you realize so many people do yeah especially in construction construction
It is so hard to find good people it is so hard to find people you can trust and to find brothers that you want to benefit and that’s where Cooney and I Cooney and I talk literally every day um and you know because he’s in construction as well so he and I work
Together on a lot of projects so okay oh yeah I get I get so much exposure to that guy it’s insane I think I talked to him Sean c yeah I think I talked to him more than I talked to my wife so but but either way yeah I was I was
So sad about that of of you know Grand Lodge interpreted that of financial gain and here’s what I’ve told a lot of people I did not join fi Freemasonry for financial game but dag um if it’s not there whenever you get in you know it’s you know people need stuff it could be
Yeah uh because it happens all the time it’s a trust Network much like church is a trust Network um if you go to a church and you’re very active uh it’s not uncommon I don’t think for you to say hey uh I need a plumber do we have any
Guys at the church that do plumbing that’s very common right yeah because they know that guy’s not going to screw them over he doesn’t want to embarrass himself in that Community where he’s trusted so he’s going to do fair fair work for a fair price right it’s the
Same in the fraternity happens all the time somebody’s like hey do we have anybody that does plumbing and now you got to go chasing down the rabbit hole of Joe Joe Joe Smo does it here’s his number and then you find out Joe died three years ago and it’s like oh damn
Anybody else and now you’re doing full-time work just to find somebody and eventually you give up and you go to the Yellow Pages and you find someone and you you roll the dice yeah somebody you don’t know but in my mind uh it makes a whole lot of sense for us to work
Together and make it a whole lot easier to connect with each other um is there monetary gain there yes I suppose you could make that argument um but is it wrong is it Masonic I think there’s an argument to be made that it is not unmas well is is
It UNM Masonic you know we we learned about the 24inch gauge is it UNM Masonic to do your vocation that’s what it boils down to and so no it’s not it’s not UNM Masonic to do your job I mean we we literally learned about that uh you know
In our dedicating of service but as you consider that it’s like okay you know for example you or or our lodge I’ll just use our lodge as an example uh worshipful Mason asked me to go in there and give them a price on redoing the
Floor now I did not put any profit on this at all I was going to do everything for straight cost and so I think the material came back at like $88,000 and the and the labor came back at like 15,000 or something like that and everyone Pearl clutched whenever that
Happened does that mean that I joined masonry for Masonic gain or does that mean that our building’s almost a hundred years old and it needs some work done yeah so and it you know this is one of those like old rules I think because
I I get the gist of it is like we don’t want people to join the fraternity just to hand out business cards and like hey did you know that I do this hey did you know like I get that that’s really going to be a problem for us because we’re
Focused on higher things and and loftier ideals uh but at the same time I don’t really think that’s what’s happening nine times out of 10 um and I I’ve done it and other people I’m always referring people I I’m I know a lot of people so
People often come to me and like who’s our guy who’s our guy for this who’s our guy for that well there’s three guys I know that do that here’s the three numbers yeah uh I haven’t I haven’t use them personally but I know they do that
And it’s just an old Antiquated way to get information like how annoying is it that we’ve got to go through that process when we could easily have a directory yeah um you know I think that’s one of those things it’s like uh it is it needs to be interpreted by a
Grandmaster because it’s unclear in the digest now I’m very visible in the fraternity and always have been so I own a business and let me tell you how far people go I like you was very proud when I became a Mason to tell the world that
I’m a mason so I hung a flag outside my building a masonic flag on one side and an American flag on the other is what I had flying outside my building well some brother drove by my place of business and told on me that I was using
Freemasonry for monetary G because I had my Masonic flag outside my business and I’m like well so the district Deputy guy you know talks to me and I’m like look I’m helping the fraternity way more than the fraternity is helping me okay nobody’s coming here like ah you a Mason
Give I’ll give you all my money no they’re like oh that’s weird I know that’s weird I don’t want to go to that guy I’m trying to help build your credibility of the fraternity like I’m a real dude I’m a business guy and I’m a Mason I’m proud they made me take that
Flag down and put it inside the building where it couldn’t be seen out if someone comes into my building they were totally fine with me having it displayed in the building but having it outside the building was interpreted as I’m trying to use masonry for monetary gain so that
Argument I I could see that argument but it also depends on where’s where’s the Finish Line to that argument and I I I do this in church as well whenever we talk Doctrine or you know whenever we’re talking politics or whatever it’s okay where’s the line so by that logic right
There I should not be in this ring right I shouldn’t be wearing you should yeah you shouldn’t have the square encompasses on your car although the Grand Lodge of Florida sells a license plate and makes money off it to display it on your car like it just is very
Off-kilter the the yeah execution of these things so yeah it’s hard to know where the line is it makes it really difficult when they say it’s totally okay to sell place mats with business cards but it’s not okay to list a directory for free like okay like we’re
Like you’re saying like what is the point of this then like how do we find the meaning behind all this stuff yeah it like I said that that just doesn’t make a lot of sense you know for example I’m trying to get quotes on um uh
T-shirts which uh or polos for our lodge uh which by the way I’m gonna reach out to one of your guys down at 147 for that but um nice either way is like okay by that logic I should not be wearing a masonic shirt I should not be wearing a
Masonic ring I shouldn’t indicate to the world at all that I’m a Freemason when the truth is the world can really benefit from Freemasonry yes I mean and back to your your point of okay why did I join you know was it from monetary
Game no the reason why I joined is uh my dad passed away 15 years ago so I really don’t have any older men that I could really be around and say hey by the way I’ve got this thing that I’m facing I need some advice or you know hey what
Would you do in this scenario or even even just iron sharpens iron out of Proverbs you know just I didn’t have that at all especially in the in the groups that I was running with of course yeah I do you know combatives and Jiu-Jitsu and all this other stuff and
Those are great guys and I really enjoy those guys yeah um but I really didn’t have that kind of Brotherhood with anybody but I click really really well with every every Mason that I’ve ever met I’ve always clicked really well and to kind of give you some context and
Background I researched masonry for 10 years before I ever joined the first guy that ever talked to me about Freemasonry I was in my mid to early 20s uh his name is Jesse Carr and Jesse car uh I I love this man to death so he’s he’s like the
Grandpa that I never had you know he’s he’s an amazing dude so either way I think he goes to Hillsboro if I remember right but either way okay Jesse asked me about it so we got to talking about it he was still under the old school rules
Of uh well if you want to be one ask one you want to be one ask one and that’s that’s where he left it so I’m like I’m gonna research it because I’ve heard some weird stuff about masonry and about free masons in general I took 10 years I
Met Masons I went around looked at their buildings I read books on it I you know listen to lectures on it everything I have heard every conspiracy theory that you will ever hear about Freemasonry and I love every one of them because like once you get in there you know I was
Telling a couple people whenever um some brothers from Lakeland I was like hey by the way I’m getting raised you know December if y’all guys want to come to it and by the way I’ve already sourced out the goats that we’re going to need for it so and it’s just it’s it’s fun
It’s funny especially listen to some of the the conspiracy theories my sister-in-law sorry to go off on a rabbit Trail but but uh my sister-in-law whenever I told her that I was joining masonry uh she looked at me she’s like Matt don’t don’t do that whatever you do
Do not join masonry and I’m like calm down I’m like it’s not global domination it’s literally just trying to make you know good men better yeah so it’s it’s been interesting so how do how do they feel now that you are Mason I mean is there still apprehension from some of
Your family members that initially had or um are have they come around or are they just being polite to you saying oh yeah well they they packed up and moved to Arkansas so uh that oh wow ran them out State yeah bye guys no so so I did
Tell them I said hey uh I will answer any question you have within the bounds of my obligation um so it’s like obviously there are certain things that I cannot tell you but there are certain things that I can kind of allude to so they’ll ask me questions about you know
What about the 99th degree Mason and I’m like that’s it’s garbage and they’re like what about gosh what is that one guy’s name Alistair Crowley and I was like alist was never amazing not aming yeah and you know just some of these things that you know that get thrown out
There and they just get put on repeat for example I’ve been listening to a um uh the Baptist Minister out of Arizona Arizona I think I’m not going to say his name just because I don’t want to start any trouble uh but he’s got a seven-part series on Freemasonry where he just sits
There and just hammers it left and right surprisingly he got a lot of information correct uh so for example whenever he was um he was reciting a few things that that we do within masonry and some of the stuff he actually got right and I
Was like wow good for you like word for word nailed it and then he’s like yeah but that is of the devil and here’s why and I’m like okay now you lost me you were so close man you were so close and the thing that got me the most and this
Made me laugh the most is he was talking about the York right and as he was talking about yeah so as he was talking about the York right and he goes and at the end of the York right uh you have to profess a faith in Christ but even still
That’s demonic because of what I’m hold on you literally as a Baptist Minister just said that uh professing your faith in Christ in an organization of men is of the devil break this down for me my guy it doesn’t make sense because it’s not in a church I guess that I guess
That’s maybe the hangup here’s here’s your you’re you’re professing your Christianity in a different group that’s not church and that’s a threat to a church if you think about it 100% And that’s the only thing that I could come up with is what it seems like and even
If you look at like the spat between masonry and the Roman Catholic church and I have not done as much research on this as I want to so interesting my opinion may change um yeah but it seems like and especially in the last gosh I don’t know hundred years here in the
United States that there has been a a feminization of the scriptures uh they’ve softened the message and and that’s why that’s why I like pastors like a guy named Mark Driscoll and I I’ll mention his name because his channel is phenomenal I mean his lessons are great whenever it comes to scripture
And men and how to be a a man of God they’re great but um but either way in listening to what’s happened in the church over the last say hundred years or so is they talk more about the lamb and less about the lion they talk more
About the family of God and less about the kingdom of God and so what did that do you kind of alienated men if you look at and I’m not bashing church I want to be clear guys like I go to church I’m I’m you know active in my church I’m not
Bashing church but well isn’t that kind of a tenant of Christianity and forgive me because I’m not not a pastor and or an authority in any way but my understanding is that Christianity is the softening of the Juda the Judaism um you have a new covenant with God through
Jesus and Jesus is a much softer friendlier loving way than the old way of an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth Smite them strike them down now we have Christianity where it’s like turn the other cheek love your neighbor as yourself like it’s it’s inherently more
Soft so than the older way it depends on how it’s taught and so this is kind of what I’m doing with my young adult class and I think this is why my elders don’t like me teaching the Young Adult class if you look at the concept of turn the
Other cheek if you look at what was happening culturally at the time they had a clean hand and a dirty hand one was an insult one is that I’m mad at you but you’re my equal but the way the church has taught that for the longest
Time is oh we just have to roll over and take it no that’s not exactly what it means if somebody asks you to go one mile go with them too a Roman Centurion could conscript a Jew to carry his stuff with him one mile if he carried them
More than that then the Roman Centurion got in trouble so and even if you look at Christ and how he intera interacted with the Pharisees and Sadducees he just didn’t roll over and let them have or let them you know say whatever they wanted he spoke back and he was
Confident he was bold yeah and that’s kind of my opinion of or that’s kind of my approach to the scriptures uh and it’s my approach to basically life and so for example in our church uh we have a young man who’s in the military uh
He’s currently in Korea um but he one of the elderly people in our church got on to him for his tattoos you he’s in the Army so of course he has tattoos and they were like well you shouldn’t have that because in Leviticus it says that you shouldn’t Mark your body with that
Of the dead and so he I’m like well what was your response and he goes well uh I told them well look at the church I mean the church has stained glass windows and I’m like bro why was that your argument like stay stay in Leviticus and he goes
That to do with your body yeah I’m like stay in Leviticus because you can ask that person hey when was the last time you had bacon when was the last time you ate shrimp or shellfish or anything hey are you going to go out to the local
Town and stone the local gay people because I want to be number two in that line because I want to watch what happens you know so it’s just it it’s funny and it makes me laugh that the teaching of the scriptures um I I don’t know of a single church that that gets
It 100% right and I don’t have it 100% right but just the teaching of the scriptures has kind of been just watered down over the generations different books uh by different authors so it’s not going to be a unified message you got different people with different points of view so
You can kind of understand that one author of one book might see a situation differently than another author of a different book talking about the same situation like that’s common right we know that happens you and I can look at the same thing and you can go like loved
It and I’m like e that was hideous and disgusting yeah like we have different opinions on the same thing but that that’s kind of I guess uh the point of any religion and in my limited knowledge of all religions of the world is to teach moral lessons to
Make us better people and so um I believe that what we should be trying to do as good people of faith is trying to take lessons of morality from any story of how can I be better how can I live a better life and um when you start trying to like
Interpret things in a way that you’re judging how other people should live their lives you’ve lost your way a little bit I think um personally it should be about you and your life and how you can apply these things to your family um to be better but like you said
When you see evil happening as uh you know Jesus is famously flipping over tables in the temp right like what is this like he’s mad um yeah yeah you also have an obligation to fight for what is right and you know when you see something that isn’t hurting people that is bad taking
Advantage of people that’s bad for people it’s kind of your obligation of a just man to stand up and oppose that thing because it’s hurting people and it’s bad for people and you’re lying to people and honestly we’ve lost that as a society we really have um we’ve lost the
Ability to be able to disagree healthily you know you and I were talking about that a little bit before we started recording but for sure you know it just because I disagree with you it doesn’t mean that I hate you you know and for some odd reason we we totally missed
That along the lines somewhere it’s like you and I aren’t going to agree 100% on everything or even worse I actually do hate you and you agree with me that’s even worse that is the worst oh my could you just disagree on the same team me
And this guy damn it could you tell me the sky is green please so but uh but especially especially our young men and and that was kind of you know that’s kind of my whole I don’t know what you would call it Crusade I mean but between my church and Freemasonry
If you look at the at the church and you look at society as a whole like young men are lost like they are so lost I mean and and young women as well I mean you’ve got like a generation of only fans content creators uh which is not
Good for Society at all but the go ahead sorry yeah the deck is stacked against them yes yes and so that’s where I’m I really like the lessons of Freemasonry and I like the working tools that we have is because that can help a young man become a good man especially I think
I heard a statistic the other day that like 50% of young males uh of minor males in the United States don’t have a father in the home that’s not good for anybody because statistically if you don’t have a father in the home you are statistically more inclined to commit
Violent crime to go to jail to not be successful in life you know and so I have a very conservative client who’s a friend very conservative I mean I’ve never met anyone as conservative as him and he brought up a fact to me that I couldn’t comprehend as being true and
That was that children of single parents where the father’s the single parent statistically do far better than children of single parents where the mother is the single parent I refused to accept that as real but then I did the research and he’s absolutely right the facts support the case that a single
Father actually statistically will have a healthier more well adjusted child than a single mother blew my mind blew my mind because I grew up with just a mom in the home you know I have a dad so I was prejudiced by my own experience I had a hard time accepting
That fact it’s a fact um and that that is uh goes back to your point of there is a perception that if the man’s gone oh well good whatever we don’t need him but actually you do need the man uh it is the masculine and The Feminine uh those two opposing views
Create a more well adjusted hopefully if they have a good relationship child it does and again this is where Society has kind of gone off the rails and and excuse me for getting up on my soap box for a minute but uh this is where it’s
Kind of gone off the rails is because like you know my wife and I you know we’ve got a little two-year-old here at home um I love cherish and respect my wife more than any person on this planet there is absolutely no question about
That but is it up to my wife to to do the heavy lifting around here is it up to my wife to instill discipline is it up to my wife to fill up her truck last night at 9 o’clock at night filling up Sam’s Club you know so you know there’s
Certain things it’s like yeah we both have very important roles in this house but they’re not the same and for some odd reason in society and and I don’t I I don’t know where we could attribute this to I mean I have some thoughts but
Um it came to a point where it’s like oh men and women are fundamentally interchangeable and it’s like we’re not though we’re both needed and we’re both needed to do what we are good at doing so like I’m in a pretty Progressive household my my wife is very conservative
Russian Ukrainian Orthodox oh you’re gonna get trouble sorry yeah she’s Ukrainian not Russian there’s a difference um and uh so she had a very specific upbringing that was more like yours probably very structured in the Christian faith um and women have a specific role in a conservative upbringing very clear delineation
Anization I mean our Dynamic here is a little bit different so for example I’m a very logical person um emotions just don’t click with me at all um I’ve never really understood highly emotional males um I don’t understand highly emotional females you know I just I don’t comprehend it I’m like why are
You crying over the wind changing direction I don’t anyway so um whenever it comes to for example parenting uh my wife is phenomenal at being that emotional um yeah you aspect to raising our daughter and rightfully so my daughter for her being two first off she she’s and she’ll have a full-blown
Conversation with you like just sit down with you and have a conversation I’m like you are two you are still wearing a diaper why are you telling me your opinion about anything so but either way um you know my wife is really good at that and I’m really good at being
Consistent on discipline uh so you have our our two-year-old that yesterday you know we we forgot her sweater here at the house and it was a little chilly here down here in Florida yesterday so I take the sweater out to my mom’s house she’s over at nanana and you know I was
Like hey by the way I brought your sweater you forgot it home oh thank you Daddy and it like just thanking me over and over again so it’s like okay we’re kind of doing something right here you know something good is happening because you have a two-year-old that is
Remarkably polite that is and I’m not saying that we’re perfect parents not what I’m saying to be clear um sure but you know it’s like okay that that two what is that I mean what even is a perfect parent is that even a thing is there well it’s just kind of to
Highlight the the dynamic of getting both aspects of it and so for example we were talking about church earlier and you can apply this to to masonry as well but in church it it’s especially in the the denomination that I go to they’re very very adamant that women do not have
A role in the church at all some of the more conservative churches in our area with the same name on the side of the building uh they insist that women actually cover their heads uh they’re like they’re like a step away from Sharia law it’s crazy so right and even
Still the funny thing about that where they take it out of is Paul’s writings and like two sentences later he says by the way we don’t do that here so I’m like guys read the whole read the whole context so but either either way uh a
Lot of the women in our church uh I shouldn’t say a lot but a decent number of the women in our church uh one of them has said to me at one point she’s like I want all the rights in church that men can have and I’m like hold on
First off you do and then secondly why do you want that responsibility and I asked her I was like are are you g to get up and Lead singing are you going to get up and and preach sermon she’s like oh God no I hate being in front of people and I’m
Like hold on that like that Spirit we we need to address that right there that that mentality because in societ it’s like I want everything that a man can do you know and it’s like well you can do you really want to do that should you
Really do that or should a good man do that for you should a good man make you feel comfortable in the roles that best suit your personality traits and of course you know to take it back to masonry you know here we are on the level which by the way thank you for
Having me on but of course but as we’re considering masonry you know there’s going to be certain men within the lodge like we’ve got men in our lodge that they don’t want to sit in a chair they don’t want to in the line they don’t
Want to do anything they want to be a support role I’m one of those that I have never minded at all being the nail that sticks out does not bother me you know the nail that sticks out is going to get whacked but doesn’t bother me in
The least um you know what needs to get done let’s just get it done let’s just get it over with and maybe that’s my time in construction that that has me you know on construction sites you have guys that are like I’m the leader I’m the leader and I’m like I don’t care
Where am I supposed to throw a hammer at let’s go so yeah that’s kind of my mindset behind it and again you know getting back to the tenants of Freemasonry it’s I I really genuinely uh I I want to share the tenant of Freemasonry honestly with the with the
Generation of men that are now lost um you know because again yeah and Freemasonry it really doesn’t have a stance on a woman’s role in society or a man’s role in society it doesn’t really enter into the because what we’re focused on is ourselves like how can we
Be better to our wives how can we be better to our employees how can we be better to our citizens our fellow citizens like this is what we’re focused on is fixing us we’re not really trying to delineate your job or his job or sure her job which is a great thing about
Freemason it really is focused on Improvement and getting better and part of that is tolerance um for things that we don’t understand and you get that for sure in the fraternity I mean that that first working tool is all about tolerance to in a certain extent like circumscribing
Your passions is that’s what that means yeah it means uh you know you believe strongly about a specific thing and that you should according to your personal views and and what’s important to you um but within due bounds right you know I got a funny story about that on on
Tuesday whenever I showed up for Lodge um the York right the local York right has um I guess a storage closet at our building uh and their sign is out on the front porch but it’s laying on a side and you know all this other stuff so I
Was like hey um yeah I said something about York right and cleaning up all the garbage you know because it’s an older Lodge so like we’ve got like a 1970s boom box sitting up there and it hasn’t worked in like 30 years but you know we
Just got like little piles of junk all over the place I’m like guys like let me get a rolloff dumpster here and let’s take a Saturday or two and let’s just get the junk out of here and just kind of clean the place up a little bit maybe
Slap a Fresh coat of paint on like let’s do something like that and I got a little hyper in the conversation and uh worshipful worful Mason he goes now Matt you’re getting a little hyper and I will remind you about the triel and I said okay fair enough and then I
Kid you not it wouldn’t 20 minutes later we’re inside and he starts getting hyper talking about somebody at The Grotto and I said now Dave I’m gonna remind you about the Trav right check them there’s nothing better in this world than using somebody’s words against you I mean
Really that is like the ultimate I’m having the best day when I can throw somebody’s words against them in a situation like that oh no I’m just feel satisfied like no but by all means Dave was just busting my chops and you know whenever he said that and you were doing
The same you’re just following up Us in his and that’s what’s so nice about masonry and being at lodge it’s like look I can for example Dave is 80 years old this man is he’s closer to Methuselah in age than he is to me this man is ancient right I’ve said this to
His face too and then he flicked me off right afterwards but the funny with love yeah exactly with love and comp and he flipped you up but the funny thing is it’s like all right if you look at like there’s a split in the boomer generation so the elderly boomers are typically
Sassy like they’re super sassy um and so if you give them the sass back they like you for it you know that they’re like okay yeah we’re gonna get along really well but you get a younger Boomer somebody who’s in their gosh I don’t
Know 50s or 60s at this um you know and if they give you sass and you give the sass back to them they Pearl clutch they’re like how could you ever be so disrespectful and it’s like hold on I I just did what you did but I did it back
To you yeah so it’s fun and in Lodge you kind of get some of that the older sassy generation you know where they they like the banter they like the going back and forth so I love it I mean I I have I have discovered a a group of brothers
And friends um sacred band or Society if you will uh to where it’s it is so nice and refreshing to where it’s like I’m in an area where with the exception of like one or two dudes in my Lodge I can genuinely let my guard down and I can I
Can sit here I can chat I can you know we can joke back and forth I can trust their word uh more often than not that’s a big that’s a big factor for me um you know if you say you’re going to do it do
It you know just life is that easy for me but um and I I think the world needs to see more of that but back to our earlier part of some of the the greater threats that we need to address within masonry I think a big portion of what we
Need to address actually is a lot of this stupid conspiracy crap that’s going on about masonry um because what you have I think it was last year we had what was it three or four brothers that were gunned down outside of a lodge uh last year so or in the previous couple
Of years in Florida uh in Florida we had two lodges set on fire I think yeah last year and and where they’re getting this from is is these are of course every group is going to have them they’re going to have the extremists and so that’s kind of where you know these
People are listening to some of these preachers or lecturers or whatever the case might be and I am I mean knee deep into all of it uh you know because I want to learn what they’re say so I can combat it and so one of the things they
Talk about um in the conspiracy realm so I’m not going to talk about what masonry has of it but the conspiracy realm is they talk about jebulon now as of right now I have not gone down the Scottish right I have no clue who jebulon is I
Have no clue but they say that it is a deity made up of three individuals and it’s supposed to be Yahweh baale and Osiris from Egyptian and I’m like hold on the little bit that I know about jebulon that’s not accurate you know at all who’s saying this is this a
Religious conspiracy the a religious conspiracy theory but I I I think if we could if masonry could get out in front of people and speak about within our obligation to be clear if we could speak about masonry within our obligation and about what we are who we are get in
Front of the public a little bit more I think it would be phenomenal a lot of these um a lot of these um preachers that are out there talking about this uh they keep referencing different things you know for example they reference um Albert pik’s morals and
Dogma I started listening to that and I had to turn it off it was incoherent ramblings to me because I had not been down either the York or Scottish right yet uh still and really it’s it’s a recounting of the Scottish Wright degrees and their meanings and stuff
Like that why would you listen to that if you’re not a Scottish right it’s completely total rambling incoherent like I could not understand any of it and I’m a master and it’s like how are you some Minister you know how are you able to interpret everything that Albert
Pike’s writing and I’m in it and I don’t understand it you know it’s what their biggest hangup of anything Albert Wright has written or said is is that he references Lucifer in one of his writings and um you know I’m not going to get into the that into the weeds
Right now uh but you know go back and look at what Lucifer meant in Albert Pike’s day and what he was referencing and it certainly wasn’t a but you say the word and itations and meanings to religious people that are clear um you don’t have to explain when
Someone says Lucifer that they could be talking about the devil and uh so it’s just really it’s really easy for them to pick those things out of context and use them against us and there’s literally nothing you can say there’s not a word there’s no situation you can show them
That is ever going to change their mind um how they feel about it so Freemasonry wisely I think has decided um as a system not to engage in those debates with non-masons because you can’t win it all you’re going to do is dig their position in even deeper and deeper and
Deeper the more you try to talk to them about it so I think what you’re saying is uh along with my beliefs too which is let’s just be visible to show people what we do as Masons who we really and let them draw their conclusions based on my take an accounting of my
Life when I die and look back at it and show me where I was doing evil satanic things uh I liveed proudly as a Mason and I helped people and I did my best and that’s what people will say when I that hopefully and don’t use me because
I’m not a saint but use a good Mason and put him in that role and because I attend a lot of masonic funerals and you look back at their life and look at their children and look at their co-workers and look at the things they’ve done and the mark they’ve made
Then they were proudly Masons and that should speak to who we are yeah as a fraternity yeah you can’t sit and have a debate about the use of Lucifer as a reference to the morning star and what that means in history in different cultures in different religions non-Christian uh because you’re never
Going to have they’re never going to listen first of all openly and honestly probably not and uh you know you can’t change somebody’s mind once they they get into that mindset so you’re wasting your time and you’re wasting their time and so what’s the point you know that’s
Kind of where I fallen in the whole thing it’s like why are we gonna what’s the point we we talk about the miss the um a lot of what people say about masonry just because it’s funny to us as Mak hilarious and uh really the scenarios of how that got into the ethos
Is also really interesting and I think it’s a interesting stories to tell and listen to um and it’s also wise to know as a mason how this stuff got out where it came from so that you’re educated when you hear it uh but none of that stuff is changing anybody’s mind none of
It yeah it’s aware I’m more so on the side of what’s right is right you know and and I don’t care who or where it comes from you know it’s just you know what’s right is right um and hearing some of the stuff that I do um about
Masonry and it’s like all right well you want to talk about you know Albert Pike and his and his book or you want to talk about aliser Crowley who was not a Mason yeah you want to to talk about those things but yet you’re not going to talk
About George Washington you’re not going to talk about buz Aldren you’re not going to talk about you know all the good people that have done well or um Jefferson sorry not Jefferson um Benjamin Franklin you know you’re not going to talk about these people who built this nation you know this country
That you are in and even still our government is set up I didn’t realize this our government is set up remarkably the way a masonic lodge operates or it’s supposed to at least we’re living in a masonic experiment this country is literally a masonic experiment in how if
You formed a government off a free masonry could it Thrive and survive this is the country this is the experiment built by Masons on masonry uh and you know it has changed and worked over time obviously but I think the ideals are in there they’re baked into it all men are
Created equal line one yeah under God line two like we care about our faith we care about each other we treat each other with respect we have tolerance for each other this stuff our Democratic process is a fraternal one this is how we’ve run our organization
Since time and Memorial uh we we say that we’ve been around since 1717 no one actually believes that I don’t think um but you got to have a date to start from and that’s the first time we have public declarations so we chose that date uh I don’t think any legitimate Mason
Truly believes that we weren’t practicing masonry prior to 1717 especially when you can find Scrolls and references in the 13 and 1500s uh referencing some of the stuff we do in masonry uh and you know there’s direct tie-ins to the Knights Templar uh which is you know a lot of where the
York right’s coming from and I am a York W Mason um and I went through those degrees and what they’re asking you is not to declare your belief in in Jesus Christ as your personal savior which is the misconception what they’re asking you in the York right is would you
Defend Christianity with your life and if you can’t answer that honestly you shouldn’t be a York right Mason uh but I have Jewish friends that are York right Masons because they said I would defend anybody’s right to their personal faith with my life interesting I believe in
Freedom and so that’s how they justify and and we’re able to truthfully answer yes to that and become proud York right you know it’s interesting you say that especially whenever we’re considering the way the United States is set up is um one of the gripes that the church has
Against Freemasonry is that you can you can have um you know a Quran uh on the altar uh you could swear Upon A Quran that it’s not exclusively a Christian organization therefore it’s of the devil and I’m like well then you shouldn’t join your local YMCA like or local golf
Club um you it’s kind of and don’t vote for any political party it’s kind of like where do you draw the line you know so for example um you know or not for example but uh but considering that of masonry is okay if you swear your obligation or you take your obligation
On a Quran they’re totally okay with that and if you look at the way the United States is set up there was no um even though we were kind of sort of you know founded based upon you know Masonic and Christian values there still is that
Openness of hey here in the unit States of America you can practice whatever religion you want you know it there is not a certain set religion you can do you could be a non-believer if you want um you know so I think that’s that’s probably one of the things that I
Honestly I appreciated even though I saw where the where the preacher was coming from whenever he was talking about like it should be inherently Christian and I’m like hold on our country is not inherently Christian you know the nation in which we reside is not so yeah I
Don’t see any I mean it’s the I would concede that it is definitely the predominant religion in our country for sure and and in Florida masonry I mean most guys I know are Christian they go to church they’re they’re good Christian guys uh uh but you know that doesn’t
Make it exclusively that and that’s kind of how our nation is um although the people that formed it were predominantly Christian no doubt uh they were also Masons and they understood the value of not tying yourself to a specific thing in Dogma uh and so you know our nation
Is supposed to be accepting of anyone’s Faith as long as they follow our laws as long as you’re going to be a good American then we’re okay with you um and that’s kind of how Freemasonry is we have our laws and as long as you’re a good Mason those things don’t really
Matter to us you go home and you go to church for those things you come to masonry for a completely different reason that’s and that’s another thing that they talk about is they’re they’re like oh well Freemasonry talks about that it has its own path of Salvation
I’m like no it doesn’t not at all that’s it’s definitely not true um you’re supposed to have that before you come to the doors here yeah but before you ever precondition in joining Freemasonry actually you have to sign on your petition that you already believe something along those lines before you
Come uh so that that’s easy to dispel you can go on any Grand Lodge website anywhere in the world and look at a petition and see that you have to already believe that before you come here so we’re not giving you any kind of belief in a deity necess neily now you
Would be exposed I don’t think you can deny that uh to other religious ideas in the fraternity because I view it as more of like a picking it’s a moral lesson thing they’re picking moral lessons from different situations and different religious backgrounds to tell a moral lesson and often they pick a minor
Character that’s although it’s there it’s not a big character but they they create a story around it for Creative license to tell a moral lesson I love that and the masteration Dee because as soon as they referenced the character we all know that I’m talking about uh in
The Master Mason degree and I’m like oh I know that’s out of First Kings like I I remember exactly where that came from and I was like Yay I know what this is uh you know and the fellowcraft I I actually like the fellowcraft degree the
Best um you know the fgra degree was phenomenal uh especially the all the information on there and then you’ve got the winding stairs and you know everything that’s on there um it well because it represents more of where you’re at in your life like the fellowcraft degree into a Mason
Represents the a mason in the prime of his life like you’re learning science math um you know arithmetic uh how to speak eloquently like these are all lessons in the fellowcraft degree and that’s where we’re at in our life we’re in the prime we’re we’re working in and
The Master Mason degree is definitely much more about the end of your life um it’s sometimes literally and sometimes figuratively about the end and uh where it’s all going so I think that’s definitely a reason a lot of us identify with the fellowcraft degree the most
Because that’s kind of where we’re at in our life right now speaking of the the masteration degree and how you just described it excuse me um so this past Thanksgiving and I want to ask your opinion on this but this past Thanksgiving uh there was a guy who
Secretly recorded a Master Mason degree chopped it up and then posted it all on Twitter um a mason or a non Amon he was in the degree so for some OD reason he was allowed to sit in the room um he described himself as a journalist I I’ll
Send you the link later on but uh he posted the entire thing but he mislabeled so many things of this is where they ceremon ceremoniously kill this guy there are screams coming from a back room and I’m like hold on I haven’t been through the degree yet but I know
What I know what that is or at least I’m familiar with it at least and that kind of fans the Flames of the negative connotation that Society has towards masonry if someone has a negative connotation but for that specific guy I’m not even going to call him a brother
And my opinion he’s a jackass but for this specific guy what can masonry do to correct that I mean is there something that we can file you know to to get those videos taken down or you know press charges on the guy what are your
Thoughts yeah I mean we we take a we have a digest Masonic law which is published in our case in Florida on the Grand Lodge of Florida’s website for all to see what our Masonic laws are you won’t find in there that you can’t say secrets of Freemasonry um necessarily but we also
Take obligations un under our God and to us that supersedes law and so uh when we take an obligation that we won’t reveal the secrets of Freemasonry that is something that if you break it or any of the other things that we oblige ourselves to in our obligations you’re you’re legally able
To be removed from the fraternity as a Mason because of that so we can file charges against the person and if we can prove that he actually did reveal things that he promised that he wouldn’t as a Mason he can be ejected from the fraternity forever um a masonic trial
Leads to one of three things you can either be censored which means a slap on the wrist like H you know that was bad you can be suspended indefinitely Or for a amount of time or he can be expelled and uh and you know the trial would
Determine the the people that are in the trial would determine the penalty uh and and that’s going to be Case by case but that’s a pretty egregious case and I could see somebody getting expelled for that and then you know you’ve got to fight the fight to get it removed the
Thing is it all the secrets are already out there um they’re all out there and this is what I tell my wife who was very concerned about the secret part of the fraternity is now that I have them it’s nothing to be concerned about we’re talking about we really don’t reveal
These secrets out of tradition not because they’re Earth shattering secrets that are going to change anything for anybody it’s like I’m going to call this a Snicket we all agree this is now a Snicket like that’s the level of Secrets we’re keeping okay it’s modes of recognition it’s ways that we can
Recognize each other and determine where we’re at in the degrees and yes we keep them secret because at one point it was important to keep those secrets and now it’s not but out of tradition we honor our fraternity and our our past and our history and our traditional way of
Keeping those Secrets as a Brotherhood it kind of is a uniting thing we all are on the same page with those few things so so I have another question for you so obviously in the Master Mason obligation um there is a section about uh women Masons or female Masons uh but yet
Whenever you look at the Grand Lodge of England they have a whole group of of um Grand Lodge um acknowledged uh women Masons uh is there no real communication between Grand Lodge here in the United States and Grand Lodge of England how does that work out because again I’m
Still trying to get a lay of the land here yeah most definitely there’s communication so we have what’s called uh every state in the United States has its own jurisdiction and each jurisdiction is ruled by its own governing body we call the Grand Lodge so um our grand uh jurisdictions either recognize each
Other officially or don’t and if they have official recognition then we can have Masonic communication as brothers regardless if we don’t recognize then we are forbidden from having Masonic communication with those Brothers um it becomes especially difficult when you find a jurisdiction that has two bodies
Claiming to be both claiming to be the original Grand and so now we have to figure out which one are we supposed to recognize and and so this becomes a whole big political problem at that level and if you go up there you’re going to your mind’s going to be blown
At how much crap goes on and it is going on right now in fact um with with a a Grand Lodge in I think Paraguay there’s an old Grand Lodge and a new Grand Lodge started up and is much more Savvy and and got a bunch of recognitions because
A lot of jurisdictions didn’t know about the old one and uh and so now there’s some contention about do we recognize the old one or the everyone else is recognizing the new one but we kind of should recognize the original one right and uh this is causing some contention in the States
Among the different jurisdictions about who to recogn Texas so it’s really fascinating but we recognize the Grand Lodge of England even though they have women mases to answer your question so it seems like Texas almost went through that recently uh and and I got to tell
You I I tried to follow it as much as I could you know being well at the time I was I was profane and then EA and then fellowcraft and I’m like I have no clue what’s going on but all this sounds really juicy so um as I was listening to
It and then the fact that 34 or 3500 people showed up and just was uh 7,000,000 my gosh 7,000 showed up that is insane to me it’s like that’s how much those Brothers cared about taking back their jurisdiction yeah the corruption that had really overly ramp
There wow and it happens it happens I mean you’re a new Mason you certainly must start be starting to see it in your own Lodge that there are some people get into leadership positions that abuse that position um and are not acting masonically and that goes on at every
Level of the fraternity it happens at the district level it happens at the Grand Lodge level and it’s up to we have to police ourselves we have to prevent that from happening by not like you said uh in the beginning when we were talking about Jesus he got awfully pissed off when he
Saw things going on that weren’t right and that’s how I believe we as Mason should behave um every time you turn a blind eye and let that stuff go on you’re now responsible for it getting worse the the thing because you could have said something you could have you
Could have tried to bring it to light or you know at least raise a red flag and notify people that you see it going on and you’re not okay with the thing the thing that’s gotten me in masonry because th this I don’t understand so I
I hold an HVAC license here in the State of Florida um I was I’m Nate certified I hold a a certified builder contractor or building contractor’s license so whenever it comes to being uh well qualified as it were um I’ve got some accolades that I could put underneath my
Name but I never do you know anybody that I talk to I don’t care if they’re the CEO or the doorman I’m going to treat them all 100% equal on the level if you will um so either way the thing that I don’t understand um and I’m not going to
Mention who they are because there are so many of them it’s insane is the guys that have the accolades or they’ve got the different color aprons or they’ve got or they’re a district guy and there’s a bit of a pompus you know outside of Lodge there’s a pompus um
First off I I surely do not have all the titles right it’s like am I supposed to call you worshipful or right worshipful or most whatever like Grand alien I don’t know what to call you so yeah there’s that and then there’s like I said some of the pompous nature to it I
Really hope in the the next generation of masonry we can kind of address that and I see that kind of filtering itself out um but I hope I me because because here’s the thing I’m I’m already in line I mean you know realistically probably five six
Years away from sitting in the East if if I even want to do that um you know I don’t want people to sit there and trip over themselves and be like Oh I’m sorry I should call you worshipful dude I don’t care like I’m a bald ugly guy just
Treat me as such like it’s totally fine yeah especially outside like we um you know if you look at our our our government our system of government for example when when a senate is in session Things become very formal and and this is how it is in Freemasonry when we have
A stated communication we’re doing a formal business meeting and so we refer to each other by our proper titles now when you’re out in the street I don’t think anybody is is call like I highly doubt that a senator’s friend is calling him Senator so and so when they’re
Having a beer at a restaurant like they that’s and that’s how it in my mind should be in Freemasonry like soon as we step out the the lodge my title’s in the lodge room I’m just Chris and I have guys that are that are previous students and you know once they’re Master Masons
We we’re still in touch and they call me worshipful Burns and I’m like my name’s Chris that that shit’s for the LOD okay if if you refer to me in a meeting you call me worshipful Burns that’s great but you don’t text me that okay and I’m
Trying to teach them how to be a Mason like I don’t think that should be a thing I don’t think we and I know they’re doing it out of respect because that’s how I was when I started I wanted to learn the titles out of respect and
Make sure I always use the right titles um but the good guys in the fraternity always told me why don’t worry about it just call me brother like that’s the best title anyway you know you did that to me not long ago I think I called you
A couple weeks back and you picked up the phone and I was like evening worshipful master he goes you saved that [ __ ] for the lodge was like so I don’t like it man I don’t like it but there’s a uh there’s a right worship fo that visited our lodge uh from Kentucky uh
This past Tuesday and he said something to me that I thought was interesting and there’s a concept that we can extrapolate from it so I’m Junior Deacon and I also did my proficiency give back on Monday so I had to take off my jewels and relinquish that to somebody else so
He took over that role for me and I asked him I was like all right like do you need my apron do you need the jewels like do I hit you with the staff like what am I supposed to do here and he goes well the jewels are married to the
Chair he goes so whenever you whenever you get up and walk around if you’re not the Junior Deacon at that moment the jewels stay on the chair uh and that and they don’t go anywhere else and he made a big deal about that with like two
Other people as well uh that night on Tuesday and the concept that you could extrapolate from that is whenever you’re talking about the titles um it’s married to the chair and it’s married to the jewels exactly you know so exactly that’s the lesson that I took from it I
Don’t know if I took the right lesson from it but I think that’s exactly the right lesson to take from it the we tell that in the inter Apprentice lecture it’s part of the lecture where we say the jewels will always be found in their respective stations in the lodge even
Though the brothers will change the jewels are always there because that station is like and that’s the same in our government right we have a president I think where we fall off is we have to call a Mr President for the rest of his life and you know do we
Though okay cool I guess you know we do the same thing I’ll be worshipful Burns now in the fraternity for the rest of my life I can’t shed myself of that title because I held it um but again like if I was to hang out with like Ronald Reagan
I sure would like to call him Ron not like President Reagan when I was hanging out having a drink with him uh sure if we did an interview or some public thing or we did an event he would be president so and so uh but it’s kind of a pompous
Arrogant thing to make people call that when you’re behaving on on a personal level or even a you know not an overtly Masonic event it’s kind of shitty to try to make people do that and you know the best Masons I ever met no matter how high they went and I’ve interviewed
Grandmasters while they’re sitting um they’re totally fine with being called a brother if you can’t know their title and you’re introducing them which you will have to do as a Junior Deacon I’ve seen it happen to Junior deacons they’re trying to introduce a visiting dignitary and they’re stumbling over the title
I’ve seen the guy just call me brother and they’re happy with that okay uh you know brother so and so and bring him in uh we’ll figure out the title later a good Mason’s not going to get caught up on that kind of stuff I mean it’s a ritualistic thing and we always
Miss words so and I imagine it’s also based off a personality so to tell you a story that you already know because you were there uh we have a brother I’m not going to mention the brother name and I’m not going to mention the the the
District guy who was there uh but he had to play the role of senior Deacon and he messed up um he messed up part of his role in senior Deacon and in the moment the the craft corrected him uh but the district guy afterward came in and just
Ripped him a new one now mind you the district guy is like half the size and he’s maybe 120 pound soaking wet uh but either way it was so funny the guy the brother’s response because he was like look I love you you are my brother but I will destroy you in this
Moment so it’s I just don’t understand that like it doesn’t click for me it doesn’t compute nobody gets better based off of some of those mindsets and again I have only met maybe four guys from the district maybe four um and I’ve I’ve had Pleasant interactions with all of them
You know so I have not had a negative interaction I’m just going based off of stories that I’ve heard stories yeah it happens 100% happens and you’ll find people and and I know we’ve had this conversation about this exact situation and somebody else will say I don’t
Believe it I never had that experience with that person myself right and it’s like well that doesn’t mean it it’s not happening to somebody else uh you know we have to always as Masons because we really are big on titles and it’s something that’s always bothered me about the fraternity that
We’re on the level but like I got to know that you’re a right worful District Deputy Grandmaster I have to know that you’re a right honorable District instructor that’s I have to know that you’re a most worshipful I have to know you’re the district you know come on man
Like I thought we were brothers here um it doesn’t there’s a lot of things that don’t match up to me um and and I really don’t that’s why I think the heart of the fraternity isn’t about that title meaning anything in reality outside of a business meeting
Because we need delineation of roles in a business meeting there is a hierarchy of order to things uh but outside of that you’re getting into just ego [ __ ] at that point it’s not really youthful to anybody and so I don’t see the fraternity caring about that outside
Of my dad taught me something a long time ago and my dad was a super wise man he was approached by Freemasonry to join and he’s just like I don’t have the time for that crap but um he my dad would have made a phenomenal Mason I mean
Truly my my dad would have been a he would have gone down the district line like he would have gone all the way up to the top but Dad told me at one point he goes son the world needs ditch diggers and it need CEOs and you need to
Treat them all equal and and that’s kind of the way that I look at it is you know we need in the craft we need the guys that are in the grand line we need the guys who are the inor princesses we need them all you know in order for the crap
To succeed do so so I really don’t understand the the concept of giving a negative experience to a brother who’s younger in the craft and again I have not had one yet except for one guy um I told you about that before we started but um e either way I don’t understand
That of hey this guy’s brand new he’s trying to do something he’s trying to step up I’m Really Gonna ruffle his feathers and I’m like hold on like I’m taking on responsibilities in masonry that haven’t been touched in two or three years no one’s done this um or
Trying to grow our individual Lodge uh why should there be a a barrier between me and that goal resistance between me and that goal when you could actually help me with this you know and we could actually do this is it just because you’re not getting the attention for it
Is it I don’t know what it is it doesn’t we need to make sure that we’re teaching ourselves to behave like Masons because if you’re not doing it in the lodge you’re not going to do it on the street yeah well I I always consider I mean
Excuse me um I I mean I go back to the wise words of Batman um and I realized Ronald Reagan said at first but it meant something when Batman said it of a rising TI raises All Ships um you know and so I’ve always told people no sorry
That’s a Russian proverb I’m think of trust but verify sorry about that so having said that um I’ve always kind of told people as a as a reference like Cooney I’ve told this to Cooney a lot um you know in business I want the people around me to succeed you know so a
Rising tide raises all ship and I will be that Rising tide I want to be able to lift everybody up you know and I want to be able to work as hard as I possibly can you don’t want one boat that’s sitting there elevating them above the water first off that’s weird and
Physically that can’t happen but secondly is what you want is okay if all of us are doing well and the whole craft is doing better like then it your first off your title doesn’t matter but then secondly this is a better experience for everybody involved we can have more
People come in and do Masonic education we can have more interaction with the public we can have more young men that are out there in the public that are broken and have no home we can shine a light and say hey by the way the square
Encompasses are on the wall come see us you know that’s kind of my mindset that’s kind of my thought process but again whenever you look at that’s that’s a very Masonic way of thinking about it and really the more people we can get into the world that
Are behaving like Masons the better this world’s gonna be 100% you know especially if we can’t make them in the lodge how are they gonna be that way and especially I mean if whenever you look at uh you look at marriages and divorce rates and and all that other stuff you
Know there was a certain section in the Master Mason obligation that I giggled um about you know a master Mason’s wife and I laughed every single time that I had to rec recite that so it just it made me laugh and then I’m sitting there like going through the line I’m like
Okay so his aunt is fair game okay I’m on it so yeah oh yeah yeah I didn’t get it because I have an attractive wife who’s 15 years younger and uh I would go to a lodge you know I was active even as a fellowcraft and the old guys would come
Up to me and they’d flirt with my wife and stuff and be like I still got a few more months and I didn’t understand what they were saying until I became a Master Mason you know I I’ve always told people this and again I’m an open book you know
So I I’ll be transparent about it um you know a brother and I went out to uh Hooters and we were going over some site plans or something and he is just I mean like oogling and augin over everything walking by uh and I’m like I’m I’m like
Focused in on these plans and I’m like trying to calculate okay then I need to bring the slab up to this grade and compaction rate and everything and he’s like dude your self-control is phenomenal and I’m like what do you mean he’s like you haven’t looked at a single
Waitress that’s walked by and I’m just going to tell you what I said and I was like bro here’s the thing there is not a single woman in this restaurant that can’t do anything for me that my wife wouldn’t do three times you know so like no I’m good like everything’s fine but
Um but no it’s it’s it’s I I I get it’s eye candy but like it’s is that really the focus of your whole Adventure there it’s got to be like oogling and eyeing and staring I know I see it I’d rather look at a set it really is but that’s
What that’s what they want the whole conversation to be about that’s all their attention is focused on it’s like dude yeah all right well sir Matt we’re like an hour and 42 minutes into to this so that was the intro intro let’s start the real show now excellent but no uh obviously
We want to have you back um we’re looking for a more permanent co-host so you know if if people like this let us know if you if you don’t like us you know go have a beer and chill out a little por Scot put my name on it there you
Go tell us how much you liked it after you’ve relaxed a little bit uh but no always honest feedback uh you can hit us up on the website or any podcast service leave a comment on the YouTube channel we see everything it’s really easy to
Get in touch with us you can get a hold of me directly at Chris at on the level podcast.com uh and give us some feedback um and this is how I got mad on the show I asked for his feedback and uh he gave me some and Chris to be uh you
Know as again I’m I’m a brand new hear me say it I’m a brand new Master Mason um but I I do want to thank you and compliment you uh for not only your your dedication your service to the craft what you’ve done with 147 what you’re
Continuing to do you know trying to bring in legislation for the reflection room um you that’s huge that’s awesome super proud of you uh you know for the things that you’ve done and thank you not only for all that but for this podcast as well because there were
Certain things coming up as an EA and as a fellowcraft and even as a Master Mason I am so confused just because no one tells you anything but but then you know I hear you know you guys going through you know the EA lectures the fellowcraft
Lectures and I’m like okay well that all makes a lot more sense and seeing the different um takes on it the different perspectives on it so thank you from the entire craft me as representative as the entire craft to you thank you uh for for what you’ve
Done so i’ I’ve learned in my journey in Freemasonry when someone gives you a compliment to accept it gracefully so I’ll say thank you um I my is to make you stop talking but I will say thank you I appreciate it um thank you uh for listening and and realizing what we’re
Trying to do here it’s it’s a verification it makes you feel good because that’s what we set out to do was exactly what you just said give a little more light when people are coming up through the degrees or thinking about joining the fraternity um and really talk and think
About the things that don’t get talked or thought about all that often um and hopefully like we’re not teaching here right we’re just giving our viewpoints and opinions on this stuff hopefully you can have the conversation with your friends in your lodges and you’ll have a whole whole different conversation than
We’re having on the podcast but it will be worth your time to have that conversation hopefully over some Scotch uh and a cigar if you’re doing it right nothing wrong with that the thing is like um since you know DC has the rule and I think Texas has the rule about
Having alcohol in The Lodges um but I think a stipulation of like you know you can’t be drunk in Lodge um so um so yeah hopefully we could get something like that in Florida because my understanding is we can’t do that at all here in Florida so The Grotto is my choice for
Now no yeah I mean all it would take is someone to propose some legislation and let it go through the proc need the email to submit that to we’ll go ahead and get this thing go ahead and get it going yeah yeah but uh I mean like in
Texas they just passed it you have has to be in The Lodges by law so every Lodge can decide if they want it or not it’s not like forced on you which I think is a good thing and uh if you are going to do it there’s some guidelines
Right you can’t drink four hours before the lodge meeting because we don’t want you going in drunk um but it’s okay to drink after the meeting so you know we’re all doing it anyways we used to go to the shrine after our meetings and and have some drinks and karaoke and stuff
Um and we’d have our officer meetings at The Shrine and have some drinks in karaoke uh and you know it’s like as Masons we’re not supposed to have excesses that are super fluous or detrimental to our life uh but having a drink and relaxing with the friend uh
And not getting hammered and getting naked you know that’s those are two very different things is super fluid so how do you navigate that one so just thank you so much for having me on man uh it has been an absolute pleasure uh and moreover I’m super happy excited proud
That I can call you brother um you know every conversation we’ve ever had has been phenomenal so I look forward to learning more from you thank you for being on and we won’t say goodbye we’ll say until next Time
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