Black Joy is really a form of resistance in the world that oppresses us and makes us want to feel like you know we’re wrong that our bodies are wrong and we shouldn’t be here and it’s just fighting against you know all the systems you know the media all these different
Things that are telling us you know the narratives about ourselves and just reclaiming you know our identity Our Truth and just basting in in in this world right just being who we are uh being true to ourselves being the reason why they kind of you know they need welcome to vulnerability muscle the
Empowering podcast challenging norms and guiding you to find strength and power through vulnerability I’m your host Reggie D Ford in a world that often portrays vulnerability as a sign of weakness I believe it is a source of tremendous strength and authenticity through insightful conversations and thought-provoking interviews vulnerability muscle aims to redefine
Vulnerability and help listeners develop a new perspective on their own lives lives each episode of vulnerability muscle delves into a variety of topics such as Mental Health social issues and mindset shifts we explore the power of vulnerability in healing building resilience and promoting personal growth as well as fostering meaningful
Connections this podcast provides practical tools and strategies to navigate life’s challenges overcome adversity and create more inclusive and just environments for all people in this episode we have Bas AES Bas is an Ethiopian American immersed in the community in Nashville Tennessee with a degree in Neuroscience he’s the
Co-founder of the black mental health Village as a driving force behind the movement he’s on a mission to revolutionize how we approach mental health within the black community with a compassionate with compassionate trauma-informed and culturally sensitive approach Bas and his team are reshaping The Narrative and eradicating the stigma
Surrounding mental health Beyond this Bas is fervently dedicated to reshaping healthc care education with a vision focused on Health Equity violence reduction and diminishing incarceration rates in marginalized communities all through an economic healing and health Justice approach I cannot wait for you to hear this it’s a
A very informative episode I learned a lot about his experience as a Ethiopian immigrant um and how his identity has uh been shaped um and changed and evolved over time uh and then you know some slory is about how he feels um our society operates and things that it can
Do to be better and so with that let’s hop into it and embrace vulnerability with Banas aay my man Banas how you doing bro I’m doing well how you doing I’m I’m blessed man I’m blessed uh it’s a it’s a a weird time in life um of just transition and
Growth and I think there a lot of lot of Growing Pains that come with that but uh embracing those because I know there’s always been those things and on the other side it’s been a lot of good so I’m I’m embracing it to and expecting the
Good I love I love that yeah man Growing Pains that’s a that’s a topic hey it it is because there it’s grief and growing pains there’s a lot of stuff in Growing Pains but um how this is a question I got asked on a podcast recently and I
Thought it was fantastic and I feel like you’ll give me a answer to it uh how’s your heart today that’s that is a good question just St me in the morning like that I mean um I think my heart is solid uh in the sense of like early in the morning I already
Received an email that was that kind of like shook me up but I like took a walk and just processed it and I was like all right now like we’re going we going to make this work we going to compartmentalize it uh and so you know
I’m not letting it impact the rest of my day so I would say solid because I’m you know solid in my uh in my reasoning and in my uh understanding of the situation so you know just uh sticking to that yeah good question heart is this week
Has been tender I think I said that in therapy yesterday I was like my heart’s been tender um a lot of lot of things tugging on it again with transition I think that’s one piece uh we’re recording this in October and October is a a month that used to be full of
Celebration and now it’s a it’s a month of uh mourning and grief and the celebration was around like all my grandparents were born in this month and so we literally from the first my grandmother on the first another grandmother on the 3D my grandfather on the 22nd like we would celebrate and now
They’re all gone and it’s it’s um a moment it’s moments where even if I’m not thinking about it my body remembers it my body and my mind remember it and um I just feel the emotions come up even when I’m not trying to think about it
But I think I’m I’m glad to have that awareness though because if I if I like snap on somebody I can collect myself and say what what is what’s really going on and so I think that’s that’s good um My Heart is also and uh you know I got a
Friend who’s going through some some mental health struggles right now and I’m being a support system for him uh and just you know trying to provide um support and comfort um and then allowing him to to do the work I think it’s important for people who do
Find themselves in a a place of support for others that ultimately like it’s not my responsibility it’s not I can’t go and do I can’t go and do all the things uh everybody’s everybody has to you know do their own work and so I can provide resources Provide support and do that
And then let it play out how it does and so um yeah uh and then man I’m just I’m I’m excited I’m excited for this conversation I’ve been I’ve been I’ve been excited to talk to you for a minute uh so yeah man I’m excited um I I gotta I gotta jump in
With this because we talked about it but and we can get back to it but black boy Joy is something that I know is heavy on your heart always and something that you like to talk about what is black boy joy mean to you I think black boy joy for me is or
Black joy in general not just boy yeah a black Joy black Joy is really a form of resistance in a world that you know oppresses us and makes us want to feel like you know we’re wrong that our bodies are wrong and we shouldn’t be here um and it’s just fighting against
You know all the systems you know the media all these different things that are telling us you know the narratives about ourselves and just reclaiming you know our identity our truth and just basking in in in this world right just being who we are uh being true to ourselves being the reason
Why they kind of you know they need to copy our culture in order to you know sell their products right so it’s just um us just being unadulterated us right just not wearing a mask for anyone else but just being purely ourselves you know embracing the vulnerability within our lives within
You know be blackness in itself and all that comes with it and just you know really seeking the the beauty the love the safety the the care the community that comes from all of that so it it’s it’s a form of resistance it’s a form of uh like keeping myself sane right like
For me because it’s um sometimes you need to just like yeah do something for your inner child to just you know take care of you instead of thinking about oh how do I please Society how do I you know carry out my role whether it’s you know being a provider being a father
Being a you know son this that so it’s it’s taking time to reflect on your own needs and just you know letting yourself be free so yeah yeah that’s freedom freedom freedom sounds good I like Freedom you mentioned inner child and for someone who has never heard that
Term before uh describe that describe what you mean by that okay so so uh an inner child I guess in my perspective is um growing up you know we we are children and based on the relationships that you had with your providers or based on the relationship you had even
With the world with you know friends this that you create a self-concept of yourself and in that self-concept you like that child wants to be taken care of wants its needs to be met wants to you know receive connection from the world from family from you know those
Around you and often times when people face trauma their inner child is in a state of survival and so as they grow up they still have that inner child that wanted to be safe right and when we get in patterns of uh behavior that are you
Know like when that are harmful to us it’s because instead of reacting to it as an adult who now has this new understanding understanding based on all the experiences that we’ve had we kind of revert back to this inner child self and that inner child feels the you know
The unwantedness feels the lack of safety feels the you know loneliness feels the you know not having needs met and instead of reacting as an adult would right we act as of a child would and so you know we’re angry we’re yelling we’re you know doing all these
Things that adults really shouldn’t do but it’s because you know we’re oper from a place of hurt and so it’s um yeah so inner child is um is you know who you were when you were a child and that’s that self-concept uh that we often carry uh
With us once we grow up absolutely man that’s a great description great uh I I do a lot of inner child work and like just to your point like growing up so much of our identity and and self-construct is is tied to those early years and personality and behavior and
All of that and like some of the things that we didn’t get as a child I at least through my healing and my therapy uh I’m providing that for myself now so sometimes it’s called reparenting Uh I might do some parts work or uh internal family systems and
Things like that just different types of therapy play therapy even uh but like I got one of when I I got um remote control car and a coloring book cuz those are two things that I I had a lot of joy around having remote control cars growing up and then coloring was
Something I enjoyed but it it became this burden because it had to be perfect and like like overly perfect and so I I my first time getting a coloring book as an adult and I just like scribbled and none of the colors made sense and none
Of the like but I finished it one like there’s another one I tried to do before that and it was like Perfection and get in the lines and all that and I still haven’t finished it and that’s been like a year and a half two years but the one
That I just like had fun with and colored all over I finished it and it’s cool and I’m proud of it like and so uh just doing things that like your child your inner child needed is so important and I think just like playing and frolicking and doing whatever you
Got to do is so important how did you get on this journey of uh one you could speak to the mental health Village but how did you get on the mental health tip and being an advocate and being the the person that you are professionally uh I I think um
Personally just experiencing the world and um and there’s the term black identity development uh so I’m an Ethiopian immigrant uh moved to the United States probably when I was five or six years old I’m 29 now so you know live most of my life in the US and so
Growing up as an Ethiopian immigrant uh you know and we retained our culture my mom cooks Ethiopian food all the time we’d go to school and people would be like why does your clothes smell like onions right because Ethiopian food is cooked a certain way right so there’s uh
So there was that bit of like understanding that culture shock and then that want to kind of assimilate so that you can fit in more via with um you know the people in the US so that was something that we experienced um but at the same time my parents were
Very strict about us not losing touch with our Roots so we we still speak amark and I thank him uh for this uh but so we grew up in you know very traditional Ethiopian household and in that like my mom I would always remember her saying you’re not black you’re
Ethiopian you guys are not you know and should make this distinction and growing up I realized just how harmful that um statement was and I understand why she said it because she wants to bring in the cultural aspect but you know in the United States we’re you know seen by
Every white person and everybody else as a a black person you know no one’s going to be like the cops especially are not going to be like are you Ethiopian or are you black before they shoot and so uh not understanding that that um created a dynamic where it was almost as
If my mom was trying to create a uh like oh we’re different than them and Ethiopians have this uh like understanding of like oh if we do that we can protect our kids from the same harms that black students are facing and black families are facing right so they
See it as a protective thing but the way they do this like div the way that they create divisions it’s more in line with white supremacy right uh and and so I started realizing some of these things but more it’s when I started getting in trouble right and just seeing the ways
In which these systems were intentionally designed to make us feel worthless and make us feel like you know like oh this is the best that you can do right like you can’t be better than this and I was almost starting to believe some of these lies that they were
Feeding me about myself right and this is when I realize yo like all black people are being fed these same lies and these lies are being fed on a systematic level and because it’s on a systematic level often times we’re seen as just oh you’re the
Bad actor rather than the system is you know at fault right and so it leads a lot of kids to internalize these negative self-concepts and you act out based on these self-concepts right and so that was when I started realizing just how much uh this all affected my mental health uh
Also around the um I was living in Houston Texas and I was probably 17 or 18 I got a uh license and within two years I had been pulled over over 20 times Wow Wow for what were there any causes or reasons that they gave so so we I
Mean once it was like in a Drive-Thru of a Burger King we had a we had a uh cop from the front cop from the back they sandwiched us what are you doing who’s in your car and and I’m like a burger yeah we’re getting food I had to give every
Person’s name in my car and where they’re living and that I was their ride right just to go home wow and they let us go because there was nothing um other times they would like we get pulled over and and they would be like oh sis somebody called in for
Suspicious vehicle or whatever and then um they would come check our records and be like you’re free to go and I’m like can you tell me what was wrong and they’re like you said you’re free to go boy you want trouble and I’m like all
Right so we’re done here I’m going to go home yeah so it was really not for a particular reason at all in any of the cases uh other than driving while black yeah yeah yeah ewb this continue to like form my understanding of like how Blackness is viewed in this society and
How we’re seen as a threat how my you know how I’m a threat as a black man just inherently just ex as your existence exactly and so that and the mental you know impact that it has on that I I anytime I saw lights flashing I
You know I had uh race based stress where you know police come in anxiety right like sweating like almost like I’m having a panic attack every time right yeah it made something like that’s a joy like driving such a pain for me because I was just like what if this happens
What if that happens right so I begin to you know really understand the ways in which these kinds of experiences impact the mental health of black people and you know going back into the history and learning about the Green books it’s for a reason right like people have always
Explain the Green books so the green book was a a a set it was a book that was published by black people that outlined uh certain stores certain gas stations certain you know food establishments that black people can frequent without being discriminated against um during you know the time the
During eras and so black people have never had the chance to travel freely without being bothered because our you know Soul existence has always been seen as a threat yeah so like and and I feel like that in itself shapes our mental health and and that was when I was starting to learn
Wow like there’s some real psychological warfare going on that is impacting the mental health of black youth and black children black families right and I mean we we can get into the family reporting system and how they police families and tear families apart uh and how all of this is rooted
Into the you know history because the way they breeded black families and separated them and used them for labor right and we still continue to do this because really it’s in the form of prison labor right and we know black people are disproportionately uh imprisoned falsely imprisoned and we
Know prisons are billion dollar Industries yes and I started to make the connections that the reason why our communities are so underfunded and underresourced and the reason why we don’t have adequate you know Health Care Mental Health Care is they’re waging psychological warfare so that we act out
Acting out being you know just responding to the the violence that’s already in your community with whatever you know responses and based on that people get incarcerated right and they have a whole system that’s benefiting off of that and so that’s really when you know I started
To you know better understand how these systems were interconnected and how you know the schools were designed to kind of teach students how to be controlled and how to be obedient rather than how to flourish in whatever topics that they’re you know most proficient at and
So even the way that we teach people is aing to the way that we hold people in prison right it’s very a and it’s very let’s control them rather than let’s cultivate them to be the best version of themselves yeah yeah no that man that’s fantastic and I
Think my book and what you described you just described the the big theme in my book um is like I there’s absolutely acute familial trauma within you know my unit um of things that I can pinpoint and say this is this happened to me by this person or you know this
Circumstances occurred and that was very traumatic uh but in writing my book I go back and I’m I’m trying to understand why did that happen why did my dad go to prison why was my uh why did I experience you know know see people using drugs and um why just why and it
Goes back and goes back far and Far uh through generations and seeing um how Minds were shaped and how people’s uh sense of hope or really learned hopelessness was was created and that leads to very dire thoughts and uh destructive Behavior because if you feel like you can’t get out of a situation
And it’s it’s constantly being you know pushed over your head and beaten over your head that like you’re stuck in this in this dark place um then what do you do what do you turn you get desperate and I so like I 100% agree with with how
You just described um that but for somebody who hears the word white supremacy who hears oppression and doesn’t live your life how do you help them understand what you mean by like uh like it’s a movement it’s a resistance movement like like those terms for someone who may be fragile have some
Fragility or have never experienced living as a black person how do you communicate that to them to where there is empathy built there well I would kind of even if you don’t feel that it’s needed because I think sometimes we to yeah tone down
Things but I want I want to I want to I want to hear if you if you if you even if that’s the answer yeah no so generally through so through black mental health Village I censor black people so those kinds of questions I wouldn’t necessarily answer um so through black mental health
Village I don’t really Center uh whiteness so that question would not be answered through the lens of black my Village but through benayas I understand that like we have to uh you know talk between different people in ways that people really understand and not really
Use these kinds of Buzz words so what I would kind of uh say is like explain to people how white supremacy affects white people right and how these like these different systems right because it’s not just white supremacy it’s paternalism right and we see that or the patriarchy
Right people talk about the patriarchy one of the ills of the patriarchy is white men are dying at alarming RIS from suicide right because they’re so lonely because they have a hard time creating connections right so I would argue we’re all suffering under these systems because these systems don’t favor
Anything but domination right and we cannot live in a world of domination and use these tactics and expect results that are anything but violence whether yeah whether it be you know interpersonal violence whether it be you know intrapersonal violence people you know doing harm to themselves that is a
That is a consequence of people learning that it’s okay for other people to treat them poorly to other people to harm them it’s okay for political violence to occur it’s okay for economic violence to occur right so when somebody’s homeless they’re like if the government doesn’t
Care about me why should I care about me right and so I harm myself yeah so it’s it’s it’s understanding that violence comes from the society first right people are not inherent violent people learn what’s going on in their environment and they learn to cope in ways that keeps them
Surviving yeah and so what we need to do is create a society that is not so inherently violent and the ways to do that is to censor everybody you know to censor everybody’s Humanity not just the humanity of those who have been chosen you know like on the basis of like they
Have the different systems working for them to make sure that you know they’re not disproportionately impacted by some of the harms that exist but it’s I guess another way is I mean getting people to understand this whole issue of like privilege in a way that you know white
Just because white supremacy exists in the society doesn’t mean that there aren’t white people who are suffering right right white people are suffering and and just it’s more understanding what the cause and effect relationship of these things are right like white people are suffering because we’re not investing in
Rural areas yeah right not because they’re white because yeah white people are suffering oftentimes in states that haven’t you know for instance expanded medicaid right because there’s so many black people that live in those states that the practices that we use to be intentionally racist also impact white
People negatively right so that just so we won’t get a majority black population health insurance we’re also screwing all the white people that live in that state as well right so that’s the way that we got to see it and there are different books um that I can cite later on
Because I can’t remember at the top of my Dome yeah talk about the ways in which um you know white people are giving away their self-interest just on the basis of like racial resentment what’s up vulnerability muscle fam we’ve got amazing sponsor to talk about today and
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And seeing how white women voted you know like just like and and you can have your political views but I think when you look at a candidate who is the most qualified candidate we could have had um but is on the other side of the political Spectrum from from
Uh whatever uh people have historically voted or believed in it’s just like it was absolute no and they gave up their self-interest wow that that’s that’s a powerful statement uh I I uh I think I I I agree with you and I think I love that like black mental health Village is
Focused primarily on black empowerment and not necessarily appeasing ing anyone else like it’s like let’s focus on us let’s heal uh and I I that’s something I’m so radically for is like healing myself healing ourselves collectively um because I think that’s how you make um real change and real progress in the
World you know um what have you have you experienced your personal mental health um on the back side of you know you mentioned some of the things that you know getting pulled over and being you discriminated against has you have you seen like mental health conditions arise
From that that affected how you showed up every day uh definitely I would say anxiety was one of the things that um showed up for me and so just learning how to manage the anxiety and you know there have been ways that I’ve managed my anxiety poorly using you know poor
Coping techniques um I like pledge the fraternity so you know there was a whole drinking uh that goes along with that and even that led to some of the mistakes that I made where I got in trouble for that right and um but at the
Same time not only did I get in trouble but I I also saw the different ways in which I got treated differently than the white kids who were you know at the college that I was at um like I would literally be um you know like I had campus police
Like grabbing me this that whereas white students would break you know black students nose and be okay to you know walk home alone or this and that so there was a lot of different issues and um so like drinking definitely was one of the ways that I
Coped uh in college because I was also a transitionary period for me we were talking about transitionary uh periods but I was um living I graduated high school not uh living with my parents so we were not in the best of uh terms and
So when I went to col College you know I pledged cuz I wanted that like family you know fraternity the Brotherhood right uh and cuz I cuz I was feeling lonely right I like I was not even talking to my own family I was like you
Know my bank account is my bank account whatever we got from here is US let’s make this happen you know like which was kind of the case since probably like 15 or 16 but it was just a lot more Salient so it was just um yeah there was
It was I lived a different reality than most of the kids that I went to school with uh a lot of them came from wealthy families and I had some friends who like their parents would sell them like 5K a month allowance right uh and I’m over
Here working at the dining hall like Wasing dishes yeah doing uh you know working at the mail room all the different things um but even you know even I had my own privileges I admit I had some classmates that would also work but they had to send money back home
Right so privileg comes at different tiers and even somebody like me you know I was privileged in that instance because I saw what they had to do with their money I use that money to party and to like you know work hard play hard so um you know there was those instances
Um but really the um the anxiety the drinking um definitely got me into some issues where um like I remember one time I was uh really drunk and the campus police said we didn’t have a good conversation so then they take me to the drunk tank uh the town drunk T yeah
Instead of letting me go home like they do like most of the other students right so then from there I like I’m like yo like please don’t kill me please don’t like I’m just pleading right and then next thing I know I’m being rushed to the hospital and the hosp like the doctors
Are trying to figure out how how much blood I lost right so so that further put me in a state of you know trauma and I felt unsafe and so in that moment what occurred do you know well so I remember like me try backing up trying to get
Away from you know the officers I don’t exactly know what happens but I is there’s blood all over my shirt and all over my pants and and and I was saying you know please don’t hurt me please don’t kill me so I wake up and there’s a campus
Police still in the bed of the hospital and then and then they finally leave once they realize that I’m like okay right and then the H the doctors are trying to figure out how much blood I lost um and and I’m like yo don’t run any
More tests cuz I’m a broke student you know like I don’t I’m not trying to get it you know any more hospital bills I already got to pay for this ambulance right so I’m just worried about the money and they’re like we’re trying to figure out how much blood you lost and
The campus police is there right so then uh in the morning I get a cab ride back to the school I talk to the person um at the school and I’m like yo what happened I need like the videos of that and they were like oh it’s against our policy to
Give video I’m like no that’s not and so they were like really pushing back on that and then um and then they were like uh um you had a nose bleed that was all and I was just like that that was not a nose bleed they like no you just
Had a no nose bed does not look like all over your shirt and pants like my shirt I I came back with my shirt and pants and it was you know like so there was that experience um that I had where then they like finally let me go into my dorm
And they buzzed me in what they should have done the night before um and I got in but it was so then that was like another strike on me right so but at the same time like I didn’t get arrested I just had an ambulance bill so I was like
Well you know as a black man this is somewhat a win right I was like I’m cutting my losses um so I I let it go and just went on um but it wasn’t until the school actually had uh something called amorist Uprising which was when all the black students
Came together in the library and started speaking about the horrors of what they’ve been experiencing that I like realized like this is a systemic thing like I thought this is my individual pain that I had to shoulder on my own right like I was like and I had to be
Quiet about it because it was like I’m on scholarship I’m not trying to ruin my opportunity right like I’m like all right like I’m not good with my family right now this is my only way out I got to secure you know this degree and make
Sure that I you know I like my goal is also becoming a doctor so I was like all right we got to just continue going with this we gotta you know make sure that this doesn’t affect us and so I just you know didn’t make a fuss about it because
I really didn’t have the agency I was like I’m beholding to this financial institution or this institution that’s like you know giving me this opportunity so but when we had the Amis Uprising and all the other students started to talk about their experience you know I was finally able to you know
Discuss mine as well um and that in itself was very cathartic and that’s when I started realizing the power of like black spaces right uh because before I was like you know it didn’t make any sense to me like what but like I was like oh it didn’t make any sense
To me because I was kind of growing up in the lens of like white proximity as power right and then I started realizing no it’s it’s power but they they still going to treat you differently right you can you can be as close to them but you’re not
Going to get the same you can’t make the same mistakes that they make and get away with it and and so it was it was a powerful real realization for me wow wow I want to point out some some things that you just said because so you were you were
Going to school in the Northeast this wasn’t like deep south this was in the Northeast the more quote unquote maybe Progressive part of the country uh studying to become a doctor you studied Neuroscience right yep here you are studying neuroscience and then because of the effects of the the mental health
Toll that your life had dealt you alcohol became a part of your coping and then led to certain situations but even still like when you were treated it was treated differently than other people and led to a very traumatic experience and I’m sorry you had to experience that that no one should ever
Have to go through anything like that um and but then finding this community uh it’s good to find Community but it sucks that the community was built around this oppression and this this this Mal treatment um and and leads to some of the great stuff that you’re doing now
But like that is when when I hear stories like that and I read some of my comments or people like like whenever I talk about mental health it’s like okay whenever I talk about race it’s absolutely like that’s not real that’s not your experience and I’m like how can you deny
Someone’s lived experience right you cannot deny someone’s lived experience and you have actually lived through this and so anyone listening who felt who’s felt you know any type of defensiveness as it comes up like this is a man talking about his experience I don’t want that to be known in like this is
Real life um so thank you for sharing that because I mean I can imagine what it’s like to even think about those thoughts and going through that um I’m proud of you for being the man that you are and who you show up to be like
Honestly I really am um I and I and I you you mentioned something that I want to touch on um that at the time like as a teenager you and your parents relationships had taken you know had fallen apart a little bit and I don’t
Want to put words in your mouth but can you talk as much or as little as you like about that relationship and what kind of Drew the wedge between y’all yeah I mean the biggest thing was religion so I grew up a PK what is that a pastor’s kid
Oh so my dad was a prer and uh it was essentially at a certain point I started questioning certain things and um didn’t want to attend church and that was a big thing for them because that was you know my family’s very devout we would go to church Sunday school this
All third uh so I guess the sentiment that it created in within my family is uh how or at least for my dad was like how are you going to preach to you know the crowd when you can’t get your son in line or something like that so so he
Took it out on me and there was a lot of resentment built you know uh and then uh you just issues with just not seeing eye to eye and then the whole you know if you’re living under my roof you know kind of rules sometimes um even
Like hey you know like like getting angry and like being like get out then so I was like all right that’s it like I I rather not live under somebody’s rules when I don’t know you know if they’re going to be constant right uh so that
Was the what really drew a wedge um just the sing of our relationship um through the different conflicts that we kept experiencing yeah it’s tough I my last uh recording actually was with um um they were um folks who grew up very religious and had had struggles with
Religion but ended up ultimately uh being very devout in in their faith and we had almost an hour discussion and I not intend on that but just about how they recog IL their um you know love for religion with the harm that it may have caused them uh and it was beautiful it
Was beautiful to to experience that and I and I just was with an open mind and heart Tred to absorb that and take that in but I think in families especially where uh any religion is so strongly rooted and there’s someone who thinks independently from that it causes
Division uh in some way and so how is your relationship with your family today um now we have a good relationship uh I still don’t call enough so I you know there’s still some issues on my part but like we’re we’re on good terms um yeah
So there’s it’s all love and and and that was kind of what I had to reconcile was like regardless of what happens like if something does happen to them and I don’t reconcile my relationship I’m G to be more hurt later on right and so I was
Just like let me not have regrets let me you know be the bigger person because sometimes you have to realize that you know your parents sometimes you know tried their best or this that they could not that like that’s okay and that you know you didn’t deserve to get your
Needs met but like sometimes not everybody’s able to meet your needs and you have to compartmentalize that you know like there were some things that you couldn’t have done but you did a lot for us you know you know I’m a son of immigrant so you know they can be like
They can use the whole we traveled all this way and sacrifice our lives there so I’m like yeah I’m understanding if what they’ve given up for us so yeah so I let’s come to a resolution of and we just uh we started talking more during Co actually we we were talking like
Every week and family meetings and stuff like that uh wow so yeah it definitely did a lot of things to amend that relationship wow how did that initially start because I can imagine I mean I’m a person who I’m a strange from my my parents and uh but how did that emot or
That um first interaction or first set of interactions began what did that conversation look like who started it and like I don’t know some pointers for people who may want to mend those relationships I was Faking It Faking It faking it till it wasn’t feeling as fake
Anymore right it was uh cuz I emotionally numbed myself so that it no longer could they no longer could hurt me so it’s like diffusing a bomb almost right because that or diffusing a trigger because that trigger has disappointed you so many times that I was just like I need to disconnect your
Ability to control and impact me um and that was my way of coping and so I had to figure out all right how do we you know put the circuit back on and reprogram it to work in a way that works for me and and so it
It had to be with the boundaries with the setting the tone of like this is what I expect kind of like modeling the behavior that you expect right uh but but it felt fake it felt fake and I felt like I was just doing it but then you
Know you keep doing it you keep doing it it’s like all right like this is okay now you know like I can do this again and so I was able to um allow them to affect me more but it it was it was yeah it was almost like I had disconnected um
From them so that they couldn’t affect me anymore so I was trying to see how to re connect that and on their part was there compromise was there change in Behavior was there change in thought pattern yeah I I think particularly my mom especially she did a lot of her work
Uh I remember you know so I grew up to a to a OG Ethiopian Mom right so I Remember one day I was in college and she calls me out of the blue and she’s crying I’m like what’s going on she was like I’m so sorry that I like spanked you and your brother wow particular one time wow oh she’s talking about one instance that she remembers yeah yeah
This this one particular time she would like she went OD right like we like one of the we’re in Ethiopia so there is no rule there are no rules right and uh she um the neighbors had broken the glass uh like the door had like a like metal
Frame and then it had glass on the back and they were trying to like kind of knock and this kid got locked out so he was trying to kick his way to get our attention and his leg slips and it breaks the glass all the kids run home
And me and my brother start cleaning the house because we know we about to get the ass who of a time right and my mom comes in she’s like this is sus you guys are reading right like none of this makes sense so then uh um the so we have
Housemaids in Ethiopia and the housemid like uh made the lunch for her she sitting and she looks at the door and she’s like what is that and then man so she my mom was she was like go upstairs take off all your clothes she brought
Out like a luggage strap wow she told us to get wet in the bro that’s the worst oh that’s the worst and then and then we were like we we had told the um the housemate be like yo if you hear us like please come help
Us right oh man she comes to help us and my mom’s like unless you want some too you better leave right wow so wow we had got the ass open of a lifetime that day and so my mom calls me like sophomore year of college and she’s crying and I’m like
I’m so sorry like and she was like I don’t know what was wrong with me like and so she was dealing with some of her mental health challenges which was like she had anxiety um and just dealt with like her her her way of coping with anxiety was being a control uh of
Everything and so she was dealing with a lot of that and that’s where you know the forms of punishment came from as well and so there was a lot that she was realizing and then you know apologizing for um so I I think there yeah one those kinds of moments really showed
That hey like we are all just humans trying to figure out out and sometimes we make really stupid mistakes um and sometimes it’s like like those are the lessons that I want to take moving forward right um is like not saying the wrong thing just because you’re angry because people will
Always remember when you know what you said to them and how you made them feel and I and like that’s the kind of experience that I took of like what are some like I’ve had so many people probably like three or four people uh like wreck my car right and
I’m always like are you okay right instead of immediately going off about oh you did this you did that because it’s like we gotta always prioritize people’s Humanity over the objects that are you know broken and kind of like the coloring thing right like we want to be perfectionist and
Color in the lines for me it was like you know messing things up you can’t mess things up you can’t break things uh and it’s just like no like it’s okay people are what matter the most right and we can’t say really hurtful things that we can’t take back on the basis of
Like meaningless objects being broken or meaningless things being you know ruined because really like like we are what matters right we are what we got and so um those kinds of experiences but this definitely setting the boundar setting the tone uh because like I’ll well I’ll yeah they’ll
Know when I’ll start retreating right when like if I’m not dealing with something or they’ll know that like I will argue back and forth till the cows come home if I don’t agree with something right and so I’m very which is healthy yeah I mean it is healthy
But like I don’t want to not like a authentic version of myself just to keep the peace it’s not a real peace and I’m not keeping the peace within myself so it’s like facts oh yes yes yeah that that’s kind of um the ways that I’ve had
To deal but a lot of it was fake a lot of it was just like all right we in this we doing this you know I’m I’m glad to hear that you know even just to get that apology even no matter how many years go by to have an apology from somebody who
Hurt you physically right and I’m sure emotionally through all that as well um to get an apology um is it means the world so I’m glad that she had the space to be able to do that with you and being able to go back into that relationship
Was there any did you go to therapy did you did you have you been to therapy what what are your thoughts on that so uh currently going to therapy I have my appointment tomorrow at um but I had just gone U Back to therapy recently uh I’ve been uninsured for a
While so that has been like a barrier and um the other things uh when I was when I’ve gotten in trouble with school and things like that ironic so I was seeing therapy there but then ironically um when I needed therapy the most like you know oh you no longer have
Access to the health insurance or this or that so that was the other big piece for me is understanding that like this the way systems are built when you help the most you lose it especially for somebody who coming from a low socioeconomic you know background if you don’t have access if
You’re not in these schools you don’t have you know steady access to health insurance right if you’re not always employed like you know 40 hours you don’t have steady access to health insurance these are the barriers to people who are feeling you know distress or you know feeling difficulties during their time
So I wish I’ve always had access to Insurance when I needed it the most but it’s not always been that way uh currently seeing it and we haven’t really focused on my family because I feel like that’s something that we uh dealt with but at in the moment um I did
I was seeing somebody when I was at ammer uh and the first therapist was oh I didn’t really care for her she was just doing a lot of validating and I was just like all right so how do we work on things I’m trying to I’m trying to yeah
Exactly because it’s like you can’t just be like wow you’re you know you went through so much like I’m like all right I don’t need that you know we uh now deal with you know the aftermath because yes our experiences are you know impact our brain like they cause
Neuroplasticity changing of the brain in the ways that we’re now reacting to you know different stimuli different experiences differently I want to react in ways that’s you know conducive to Better Health for me to creating better relationships and so um that was my thing and then the next so then I was
Seeing somebody outside that one he was a lot better uh and we were talking about you know uh work kind of working through some of the issues with my family and kind of the decision that I had made to like you know all right let’s just uh let bygones be bygones and
Not like forget things or act like you know we’re all good but you know start the step so I I think that session and yeah that therapist was uh helpful in getting there good in the in the same Spirit of that in your bonas’s thoughts not not representing a black menal
Health Village what are or even you could actually come speaking from a black menal Health Village perspective what are some steps that we can take as a society to to better the mental health issue that we Face the race issues that we face um what are some productive solutions that
We can do to address those from a system level from a system level Lord okay so from a system level I would say that we need to First recognize the ways in which all of the different systems are impacting different groups of people disproportionately right
And in doing that you know we would see how the education system and the lack to teach black history is causing us to not really understand ourselves and we’re essentially accepting whatever the media tells us about ourselves because that’s what’s most prominent in our experiences right and whether it’s when it’s talking
About health care we got to talk about the ways in which our Health Care system is is is keeping us from having access to it right not only that when we do have access to it we got to talk about the ways in which for example mental health system we’re being restrained and
And like violence is being enacted on us when we’re going to seek care right so we got to talk about that we got to talk about the ways in which the family policing system you know they’re using social workers to break up black families when the real issue of neglect
Is about not having the economics to you know provide for their families right so instead of seeing people as something that you know that’s that that as people that have something wrong with them or some you know that they’re deficient we got to see people and humanize them in
Ways that we’re like What are the resources that they need right what resources would my family need in order to secure you know a safe and healthy environment for them and a future for them so in those ways if we analyze each system and the ways that it’s you know
Waging violence against black bodies the ways that you know even our names can affect whether or not we get employment right unless we act on these kinds of things unless we act on the fact that they’re black women getting sued right now for the Fearless fund right a fund
That’s trying to give uh black women grants but they think that’s racist and against the Civil Rights Act and and we know there’s like less than one 1% uh VCS who are black who are focusing on black women so it’s right we have to understand that there’s these systems
That exist that are enacting violence and they don’t want us to be great and and that’s what’s in us right our destiny is greatness we come from greatness we got to learn our history right because if the system won’t do it we got to realize that like hey I I come
From greatness and I have the ability to exude this greatness I just got to not let myself get brainwashed by Society by other people and I really got to you know figure out what my passion is and be in line with it as you started in the conversation this morning
Yeah definitely definitely what um what is black mental health village doing in that regard because you’re doing so many Fantastic things can you talk to some of the events some of the programming uh Partnerships that you have to address to affect change in the community absolutely so uh so we operate
Under uh healing and health Justice lens and so healing Justice is not only do you know black people have to come together to heal from the harms but it’s acknowledging that these harms have been rooted in you know white supremacy oppression right and so the way that we
Heal oursel have to be culturally sensitive to the ways that we’ve been hurt right and so one creating spaces where black people can feel safe to come together uh things like support groups things like our you know Community Mental Health discussions where we just talk about things openly right uh
Creating different opportunities for healing through you know Partnerships like nationville PC sa we do our healing for healers meditation and we also have a partnership with melanin and mindfulness uh and we do yoga together right so just creating more opportunities where black people can come together and make themselves and
Their healing the focus um so those are some of the things that we do we are also helping people get connected to therapists who look like them right so we have a directory that helps people get connected in Tennessee uh it’s creating initiatives for the HBCU students you know who are struggling
With their mental health both here in Nashville as we’ve seen you know two suicides last year uh at TSU but also you know in Tennessee Statewide so making sure that we’re not ignoring colleges like Lane College and making sure that everybody has additional resources to get their needs met and
It’s also you know we’re working with Elders who are raising grandchildren right because as we know the elders right now they’ve already seen you know they have already seen Jim Crow they’ve already seen the hardest they’ve lived through the hardest part of you know being in the United States and now they’re suffering
Again and now they’re trying to care for another generation right and so we’re trying to make sure that not only are they getting their mental health um and and their needs uh met but we’re also trying to make sure that the needs of the children are take are being
Addressed so that we can take care of their mental health needs because often times you know when you’re dealing with parents who are not there because they’re incarcerated or because you know there’s substance used in the family or something like that these kids act out right and the system what that system
Sees is oh this another black kid we got to put them through the school to prison pipeline but we want to make sure like no that’s a kid that’s traumatized that’s dealing with you know a we got to make sure that we provide you know positive experiences we got to make
Sure that we provide positive connections to help them you know build resiliency to overcome that so that they don’t become a statistics so it’s making sure that the village is really coming together right to ensure the safety of the people who belong to it yes wow beautiful I love all the work that
You’re doing you know I’m supporting 100% man uh I want to switch gears for a little segment I do it’s a quick rapid respon response of first thing that comes to mind and so I’m going ask a couple little questions and you just like whatever it is that you can think
Of let me know all right all right what comes to mind when you hear the word vulnerability uh I don’t know Shame Shame if you could have a conversation with anyone living or dead who would it be uh France fenan I’m not familiar who’s that he’s a French psychiatrist uh he has he’s
Written the book uh wretched of the earth and uh black black skin white mask okay all right I’m G have to check that out yeah very very interesting insight about uh the ways in which being oppressed in this Society affects our mental health and our psyche so a lot of
Black mental health Village uh the ideologies I I definitely stem from the way you know he’s described some of the theories in his books that’s what’s up what is one of your favorite childhood memories um so I was little I remember in Ethiopia uh my brother and my cousin
Were playing or watching a movie and they wouldn’t let me like watch movies with them so I’m like all right I’m going to just go outside exploring and I go out exploring and it’s like a kind of like a meadow and I go like I walk
Really far and then I see a goat tied to a stick and I’m like I want to ride it so I untie it and get on top of him and I ride him for a little bit but then he like knocks me over and then I start chasing after and then I get
Lost so that yeah and and I was like man that is probably the most joyful like young me story that I can remember so oh I love that shout out to Black Joy right there o man um I know you’ve mentioned a couple but what is a book or movie uh
That everyone should read or watch yeah I’m gonna just go ahead well you’ve mentioned this uh the body keep score I think mental healthwise that’s a pretty good book uh rest is resistance okayish yeah yeah yeah definitely okay uh what is one thing you do to relax when you feeling
Stressed I think probably go on a walk although I don’t do it enough but like because I’m dog sitting I’ve been doing it at least twice a day oh you just reminded me of something oh that is so funny so when when I saw you last I
Think in person was uh in in the neighborhood and I was at my I was with my little brother cuz he was having a birthday party for his daughter and we in the hood right we in the hood and my brother and his uh friend they they saw
You walking the dog or whatever and I’m sitting there I’m like like why are y’all so on edge right now and they’re like man who the hell is this dude keep walking around here with these dogs and like I’m like like for real like this is before I knew it was you
And saw who you were and like they like yeah we strapped up this and this and that I’m like okay like what’s going on like and this is me like I’m in a different space mentally I don’t even think like that no more but uh and so
You walk by again like look there he is he looking over here and I’m like I’m looking like it’s Banias come on like bro like I cannot tell you how like it was such a I felt the growth in my life right the growth from a very
Uh hard hypervigilant mindset to where I am now to be able to see a stranger look and not think it’s threatening or think that I need to to be on guard uh and then to know like it was you and to know like the work that you do I’m like that
Is so ironic um but it was it was a powerful experience so walking the dog that’s hilarious I had to bring that up that was a good uh that’s hilarious uh story I remember that yeah all right and last question what is the number one podcast you’ve ever
Experienced man I’m gonna have to say embracing vulnerability with Reggie Ford you gotta come on the show hey appreciate that my dog appreciate that my dog um how can people get in touch with you black men on health Village how can they get plugged in you want to talk
About some ways to contact you and reach you yeah absolutely so www. bmv.org or bmh Village on social media all platforms we on Twitter we’re on Facebook we on Instagram definitely um man Bas I appreciate you Blackman Health Village I appreciate all that y’all do uh with all
The things that you can be doing and all the places you can be I appreciate you being here with me embracing vulnerability absolutely man thank you so much for having me yes sir love bro have a great day man take care thank you for joining us for another powerful
Episode of vulnerability muscle I hope you found inspiration and valuable insights that resonate with you if you’re enjoying this journey of self-discovery and empowerment there are a few ways you can support the podcast first make sure to hit that subscribe button so that you never miss an episode
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Stay vulnerable and keep flexing that vulnerability muscle
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