A family a community an organization and a country are better when everyone has an opportunity to succeed our diversity our equity and our inclusion programs provide that opportunity an opportunity is not a promise or a guarantee and it’s not an entitlement it simply opens a door my guest today is Jonathan McCoy
He’s dedicated his life to giving people an opportunity let’s let’s meet him right now Jonathan is director of the center for diversity equity and inclusion and an instructor of history at Mars Hill University in Weaverville North Carolina he’s going to talk about that he’s also an experienced High School social studies teachers which
Demonstrates his commitment to education he is a skilled athletic coach classroom management lesson planning and educational technology he is a very strong public speaker as you’re going to hear in a few minutes and he holds senior leadership positions with Madison County and the Rotary Club of Madison County where he advocates for civil
Rights and social action Jonathan welcome to life walking events well thank you for having me I really appreciate it um here now I live in weberville and and Mar Mar Hill University is actually in Mars Hill which is 10 miles up but it all we all
Get lumped together here in West one yes Metropolis yes Jonathan we spoke a couple weeks ago you told me this intriguing story about Mars Hill which I was in awe listening to it so please tell the listeners what you told me okay um we were talking about the history of
Mars Hill and it was founded in 1856 um so just before um on the eve of the Civil um Civil War um the two things it was founded by um Baptist um because most of the teachers in the area that were teaching young people um were methodists and so um the parents were
Scared that their their children would convert to become methodists they would leave the Baptist Church so they decid that they would build Mars Hill and in that era and era most of the people who had means had money were also slave owners again you know especially here in
North Carolina here in the South and so the the trustees that came together to build Mars Hill were um um slave owners and um the main trustee Mr Anderson had um a um man that he own Joseph Anderson um and Joseph Anderson was a well-known Brick Mason of not just Mars Hill area
But of the western um North Carolina Eastern Tennessee in this region Joseph Anderson was known renowned for his Brick Mason skills and so as they had the first building built Mars Hill um Joseph Anderson worked with the contractors and we understand the contractors by also had enslaved labor
And so the first building was built at the completion of the first building the trustees of Mars Hill did not have enough money to pay the contractors that they had had um do the work and so um a lean was put on the trustees and so the
Sheriff um um was brought by the contractors to take um the collect on that lean and so the most valuable property amongst the trustees was Joseph Anderson because again as a slave person you seen as property and so he was he was taken by the um the sheriff um and
At this time was you know bunin County was in in Mar was incorporated with b and they basically took um Joseph Anderson to to jail and um held him in captivity and were about to sell him to pay off the lean and um the trustees got together and raised enough money to pay
The the lean and get Joseph Anderson back now again it was not to free Joseph Anderson Joseph Anderson did not get Freedom until after the Civil War but it was a way for to get his property back get most valuable and so Mars Hill holds a distinction in Ripley Believe It or
Not as the only school that um we know in the United States that a person was actually held in bond for the the the cost um of building it the building the first um building on the University that this man um was um held now other schools were built with slave labor and
Built with money from um slave um sales but this person was held in bondage for the building and um as the story continues his great great great granddaughter um orene Simmons um as I as as I say you know the L the Lord has has his way of working um
Orle Simmons was um Mars Hill’s first um African-American student in 1961 she integrated um Mars Hill so the a direct descendant of Joseph Anderson actually did um then integrate Mars Hill and then in um 2022 um um Orleans Simmons was awarded an honorary doctorate from Mars
Hill and so Joseph Anderson is buried on um Mars Hills property in fact our um residents Hall a large portions on the hill we used to call men Hill but it’s on Joseph erson Drive and his his um grave is there and um um Dr Simmons went
And took a picture um in her regalia with her um honorary doctorate diploma there um at his grave there or Joseph Memorial sign talking about and saying how you know I you know I did at granddaddy you see that we we’ve come and this whole full circle that this
Person held him bond in his descendant and a number of her children three um three of her children have graduated from Mars Hill and things so you had this connection and actually Mars Hill has incorporated the um Anderson family Joseph Anderson family is now has been
For a number of years on our our wall of Founders is seen as a founding family of Mars of Mars Hill University um but um so from this this dark beginning you you see some cracks of light but this just that ironic um story um and um unique
Story of Marshall that we that we try to tell again which goes into why I also I have this position of you know when we talk about diversity inclusion what is the diverse ways that we get here to go forward but also the diverse experiences
And how they shape us exactly it was 105 years before an African-American student came to Mars Hills wow and it just happened she she did not purposely try to go to integrate Mars Hill um um she was doing she was in Ash lived in Asheville um but that was one of the
Places she applied and she first was denied because she was was black and she said that then what happened was somebody realized kind of who she was and it was also this time that Civil Rights was kind of moving and was kind of like well wait a minute what are we
Doing this you know now she did not have it easy here again this a school in the South but um she but she said you know I I didn’t purposely go I’m going to break the color barrier at Mars Hill but it was something that when they gave when
They offered her um a chance chance to come after denying her she said yes that’s where she wanted to go she had always wanted to go to Mars Hill and she was sad when she first was denied and then you know happy to have that opportunity so being the first person of
Color in a woman what was that like what what did she endure was it was it what we saw on TV in Mississippi and Alabama and in in in some ways um she um was isolated um marsill always been um even in his founding was um co-educational but of course we know in
The 1850s and 60s into the early 20th century really very rare for um for women to come to Mar so that didn’t really start until more into um into the 1900s but when she was here most of the students she would say probably about 99% of the students would not talk to
Her or have anything to do with her um she had a um a um room at at one of the first floors of the residence hall but you know there’s no air condition things like that so she would have her window open and and people would gather
Outside her window and um would talk um to one another loud enough for her to hear like you know maybe we need to run her out you know maybe we need to string her up maybe so there was always a con concerned by um like staff and faculty
Administration you know she we you know how are we going to keep her safe but she said a lot of people didn’t talk to her there were a few people that did um and then they would be ostracized um so it was almost anybody that was already
Seen on the on the outskirts of of the community they would they would talk to her but um but she she she made it through but she said yeah um um but it it was you know a lot of times maybe go to the dining hall and eat by herself
And things like that and um um she said you know teachers would call on her in class but you know people wouldn’t want to study with her wouldn’t want to walk with her to any else and things so it it it it was definitely not for um the
Faint of heart and then you know you have to think about this is a um a person just out of high school but she said one thing that helped her she was part of a score which is in in Asheville was a high school movement um that was
Um inspired by um um Dr King’s work in um Montgomery and and things and so they were they in high school they went on um to start doing civil rights um work as high school students so as in high school she had been part of you know starting stins and and protesting of
Trying to bring um um a a racial change in Asheville so she said that helped her you know as she came to Mars Hill said she had had this training she had had this participation so she had this um stamina to take this on wow that’s incredible now you
Enrolled in 1980 you were a student athlete and what was the environment like when you got there so I I came I I came in 1987 I was um 17 years old I’m I’m I’m October baby so I I didn’t turn I didn’t turn 18 until I already had started at
Mars Hill um I always remember you know registering for the draft um sitting you know sitting in my room filling out that that that card in the middle in in October but um it it was unique Mo um Mars Hill um probably at that time there were about 3% of the the student
Population was probably African-American um most of most um students even now here at marille if you’re a student of color usually you’re coming because of Athletics that’s the big draw and that was what have pulled me to Mar say yes I I I earned a football scholarship that’s
What pulled me from durh and most of the um um my fellow students we came um we were at that time it was predominantly male that came um at the time I as a freshman we might have had 15 um African-American um women on campus as students and then probably about 80 85
Of us were were D that were either football and basketball so you know for so even as as B you know you know you think 15 15 young ladies you know and and 80 85 guys Tred to compete you know that that was all we always used to
Laugh about that um but um it it was it was different you know Mars here I came from Durham North Carolina so um that’s over 250 miles away so it was 4 and a half hour drive when I first came on my first recruitment visit here um I came
And I was like you know I’m not I’m not coming to this place cuz it’s out in the middle of nowhere you know it’s you know fall off the edge of the Earth and nobody know what happens to you I mean it’s it’s it’s in we’re right here in
The Blue Ridge um right on the edge of Blue Ridge Parkway in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park I mean it’s it’s in the heart of of the mountains um it’s um it’s a rural area and um being walking we have um a highway that
Kind of goes through the edge of our um our campus but you had to walk across it to get to the main Park 213 and you know nowadays I tell I tell students now days they have it easy because they have crosswalks back then you just you had to
You just you know you just had to take it you know you you had to go and um but you had to be con as as and even even today we talk about as as a as African-American student cars would stop for and sometimes they would speed up
You know even even today you can be at the crosswalk and you can see it um our students our students of color realized that even as they get to the crosswalk the best way to cross is with a white student because you can get to the crosswalk and stand there for a while
Because though there’s a crosswalk though there’s a sign that says you know people drive through and they’ll drive through looking at you and everything but then when they see a a white student especially a white female student they’ll stop so that’s that’s hey you see a white F St about to cross cross
And you speed up so you can walk across there make make sure the but um there were things you know you didn’t when I was here you didn’t walk down that road 2113 at night or as it was getting dark because again somebody might throw a
Bottle at you and things like that we playing football I played offensive line and our um we would meet or our practice area um was right next to a street that went up to the elementary school and two things you knew you wanted to get down to the
Gym before having to cross the street and you didn’t want to go out early waiting for practice because it was timed up when the buses were coming by if you if you were crossing the street or if you were outside waiting for practice in our area and it was again
The street where the buses went by more than likely um kids were going to yell N word out at you as the buses went by and so did you want to go through that and so that that was you know that was a given that was common so there were you
Know the racial reality yes of you know coming here but um you know there the racial reality that not everybody welcomed you not everybody wanted you there and not everybody understood um how you were a fellow human being and and again that that goes into you know this whole idea that you
Know somehow by your color um or all these other you know marks or or categories makes you different or less um and that was that was that was a reality you know there have been talk one one year um the clan had um um applied to to march in Mars Hill they
Got denied um I I think I told you about um Mars Hill’s history in in the um early um 70s um through the early 70s Mars Hill used to play Dixie at at right at sporting events basketball games football games and they would play Dixie and there be people in the crowd that
Would wave the Confederate flag and so um in the early 70s some of the black basketball players um approached um president Bley who was president of the University or he was president when I was here and said that they felt it offensive you know here we are trying to
Play and they’re playing Dixie and we this Confederate class and so president Bley right then and there said okay we’re going to Outlaw we’re going to stop that he says um if this is causing hurt this is not what we’re going to do I’m not going to take it to the trustees
We’re not going to debate it this is this is something that’s wrong it’s hurting our students and we’re going to put an end to it right then and there and if you talk to any of those um students those alumni from that early 70s when um president Bentley did that
You know they hold him in higher esteem because he stepped in and said you know I heard you we’re going to make this right because there’s there’s nothing right for you to be at this place and feel harm from this place and especially something that we can
Change that was so exp wow he was way ahead of his time yes was wow now we’re starting to see growth um and things are starting and you’re starting to see some changes now some people Jonathan this makes me crazy some people still think that Dei affirmative action programs are
Simply about race and you had a great theory on this show the world why it’s not just a race issue right I I I really talk about this um one thing I think I’m purposeful and trying with my conversations um to get people to understand the disingenuous linkage that
People have put you know Dei you know race all this race all this they’re trying to bring up this um divisiveness of race but um that takes a way to understanding what diversity really is um if you don’t have Dei then you don’t believe in financial aid financial aid is providing money so
People will have an opportunity to hire it so if you had financial aid when you went to school or if you’re a parent and you’re or your your child is um filling out that fast for so they can have financial aid and go to school that’s Dei that’s a diversity of income saying
That because you might not have the income to pay for that school we’re going to provide a mean s so if you if you don’t believe in D Dei you don’t believe in financial aid if you don’t believe in Dei um you don’t believe in religious diversity marsill was founded by Baptist
So if you don’t believe in Dei you just believeing that only Baptists should be able to come here well we have students who are Methodist Lutheran Muslim Jewish Buddhist Catholic across the board so you’re saying well they shouldn’t they shouldn’t be allowed just Baptist so you don’t believe in other other religions
Or at least the freedom of religion which again is what our our nation stands for if if you don’t believe in Dei then you don’t um believe in international students foreign extension students from another country should not be allowed to come and study here and also our students from America shouldn’t
Be allowed to go study abroad because you know that’s a diversity that’s a diversity of people and beliefs and cultures ethnicity you don’t want that because you don’t believe in Dei um and again that affects Mars Hill Mars Hill has um all you know 22 different um
Sports a lot of our we have a large number of international students um we have a large number if if we didn’t have financial aid most of our students we wouldn’t be able to come in um race again now 30% of our students now are African-American or of of
Another um um racial ethnicity we we have um Asian American Pacific Islanders we have um Native Americans um you know so we have um um Latino Latina um students so we we’re going to do away with them because you don’t believe in Dei you don’t believe in Dei so we
Shouldn’t have anybody that is dealing with a disability be it in a wheelchair be it on crutches be it um sight impairment be it um Neo diverse we have students um that have um uh individualized education um plans because they learn differently they need extra time on the test they need um
Maybe a read aloud they need um they might have dyslexia or something else Dei accounts for all that for them to have a chance of Education you don’t believe in Dei so we can’t allow those students to come in you you know um the list can go on and on of the
Diversity of humanity and so when people say oh well do away with Dei because it’s racial well no that’s disingenuous what you’re saying is do away with all these people and only allow people like me but even when you say people like you most of the time you’re not realizing
The diversity you have you know because if I oh well we need to do way with Dei unless it looks like me but but you know does that mean that they have to wear glasses what looks if they have contacts with you know you know you know facial
Hair bald you know there is diversity to our existence and so what Dei is really about is recognizing that and saying that everybody should have this opportunity and that that opportunity should be limited and and that that is um the the the Crux of it and so that’s
Why it’s so frustrating when people want to oh no it’s just this well no it’s not and that’s why I say it’s disingenous um exactly and so EXA it’s uh I talked to some people and they’ll say that and I said what about veterans that’s a specialty group right that’s right what about
LBGTQ that’s a Specialty Group everyone is different everyone is different and that’s what makes us better as an organiz as as a country the other thing you told me Jonathan was equality or Equity excuse me Equity is different than equal right expand on it we were talking and I was saying again
As you look at the diversity of again you know as you’re saying this diversity we we traditionally Mars Hill have has been a school that that students came right from high school but now we’re getting like you said fed now we’re getting um people who are coming back to
School they’re their parents you know they you know their child care you know all we’re dealing with that we’re getting um students who are coming out of community colleges and things like that are coming that’s part of this and so the equity is understanding the that everyone is their Pathway to Mars Hill
Is different they their Journey here has come a different way and so I I say it’s like saying okay well we’re going to have disabled parking we’re giving every we’re we’re giving parking that’s specific for disabl people see we’re doing Dei yes but if you if you look at this parking
And and then the way into the building most of the time it’s you see the sidewalk has a dip in it so that if the person’s disabled in using a wheelchair they can actually go up if you want equality hey okay we gave them parking but here’s the curve there’s no dip
Equality is hey everybody everybody’s got a dip Equity is we understand that some people have trouble without the dip so we put one in so they will have access they will be able to be included and so Equity includes it’s just like saying again if somebody’s in a
Wheelchair and you say okay well we’re going to make um all the the resources available for everybody but we’re going to have it at the height of six feet so most people course standing up they can grab and well what if that person is in the wheelchair is 6 feet I can’t reach
Up that high well it’s equal we’ve made the resources available equally to everybody but it’s not equ because it’s not accessible for everyone or whether and again it comes into not only that because the diversity didn’t change you know agism you know that that’s ableism but agism the the workforce is getting
Older so there there was always this this there was this movie that came on when I was when I was younger it was called Logan’s Run it dealt with the society that you got to an age and basically you were killed off You Could Only You Only Live to a certain age I
Think might have been like 35 or something like that and then you would die and so Logan became that age and he went on the run because he wanted to live you know there was well aesm the same is the same way are are do we
Employ people and say oh you can only work here until you’re 40 then you have to go well no you you have an older Workforce but also a younger work force so do you make it you know so yes I played football I don’t I’m not as spry
As I used to be so sometimes walking upstairs I do walk upstairs but sometimes you know that hip might be hurting so I might need to use the elevator things like that we you know those things things you know what’s written or we’re going to use the small
Print or the big print you know why is there why is there Braille in elevators you know why you know why do they have a bell you know why do you know now you have crosswalks when I was working in um Raleigh last I was at a high school and
Bradney was right downtown and right next to it was a shopping center um there used to call Cameron Village and I can’t think of what they renamed it to but they had um they installed crosswalks that um that Ted and so there there was there was um the Morehead on
School for the Blind and they would bring um the students there to teach them how to walk with their service do s how to do the crosswalk how to hear okay you can walk now don’t walk in this whole TR because are you going to take that assets away oh well people can’t
See so now they can’t get out and be independent that’s all Dei and that’s all also though understand that equity and equality are different you know oh we’re all equal we all want an equal opportunity but the equity we have different needs to have a chance at that
Um opportunity have access to that opportunity and um so but people want to roll they want to say well is diversity equality and well no um equality is not going to allow inclusion Equity allows the inclusion because you recognize the uniqueness of each individual and you’re
Trying to give them the access so they can have be included to um have those opportunities I love that answer that Equity allows inclusion I love that answer now Jonathan we’re in election here we’re hearing all kinds of stuff here that opportunity in advancement should only be based on Merit and you
Tell me this is flawed explain this um I explain I I’ve had a couple people you know tell me so you don’t believe in I said well first of all we have to we have to be realistic and we have to be honest and so there is a a
Typical um habit habitual I’m GNA say typical a habitual um process that people do not being honest when when we look at this you can have Merit if everybody starts at an equal cor if you look if you look and you understand you’re realistic and you’re honest about
Our society we know that there’s different starting points for everybody when women did not get a chance to vote till 1920 they they could not get a credit card on their own till 197 there’s still restrictions on what they can and can’t do on their body so to say well a woman
Just needs to work hard well their starting point is that a different point than a a a white man from a a family that has a u income of $250,000 which is a different starting point for a white man whose family had net income of $50,000 which is different
Than a black family that you know is already under that profit so 4 so there’s a different St point and then say oh well you know everybody just has to work harder but again you’re you’re saying that everybody has the same opportunities when you you we already
Know that if you come from a rural school there is a tendency by people to say oh you’re coming from a r so you haven’t been exposed to all the things that will make you well educated makes you well vered just because you’re coming from this rural area doesn’t mean
It’s true we just have this this Viewpoint we have of people so they’re already starting with a chip because they could came from a school that is producing no Nobel PRI um Prize winners but they coming from Madison County here in Mars Hill which you know it’s this
Small tiny place so this idea of Mer everybody just works hardw in everybody’s equal that that’s that’s not true because the reality is isn’t that way you have people that are working hard and just say oh well everybody just get why why do we why do we then tell
Everybody the best thing you need to do um the the move forward in the job is the network why do people have join fraternities and sororities why does it why does it matter that you’re that you know hey I was I played football here and we’re on the championship te because
Those are all points that you can make with somebody that all oh well hey yeah I’m in the fraternity and yeah I played football too maybe I’m the same team but I know that and so that networking oh hey you know you know so and so yeah I I
That networking then gives you the edge over the same competition that that’s why you name drop that’s why you have this that’s why you make those connections so to say oh well everybody just works hard they have the same opportunity well then why are we networking why you know why are we why
Are we joining the fraternity and all this things and so the starting points where you come from from you know is influenced to the opportunities that you offer you know people hey you know and and that’s what we we talked about here at Mar because we we said we our
Job we have to reason de is important is you we want our students to be able to know how to work with a diverse group to get that experience while they’re here at Mars Hill so when they go into that um job interview and other people in that pool
Is somebody that graduated from Harvard or from um University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill or you know University of Tennessee and they’re like well I’m coming from Mars Hill this small little division too I can compete with them because I can go into that employ I know
How to work with a diverse group not only do I know about it that’s what I’ve been doing for the time I was at Marsh Hill in the different programming and and and things that I have developed the school I didn’t I just didn’t get the
Skill or hear about the skill I worked on developing the skill and that’s important because now in the 21st century employers realize and recognize that they’re going to have a diverse team and that these you know that the their their new generation that they’re hiring wants to be in places that
Understands their diversity they want to be in place that understands them so if you know employer this is I had a coach we had a coach when I was here um he he grew up in an era that men did not wear earrings and if they wore earrings there was that was a
Problem right and so we as recruits would come in we would hear back from you know as players that come back you know we would take them around and come know coach was staring at me in my earring and you know I I just felt uncomfortable I’m not going to come here
And things like that and so as as players we went to the coach and said you have to understand you know wearing an earring in in this new generation is not does not mean the same thing as you and if you’re going to judge people on that to understand what kind of program
You’re going to have what you’re limiting yourself what you’re handicap same thing you know with hair I I was I was going to school at a time where guys were starting getting dreadlocks and they were being told don’t get dreadlocks in your ha because people won’t hire you same thing don’t have
Tattoos people won’t hire you don’t have because it was SE as they’re they’re culturally wrong there something you know something wrong about we don’t want them those people but now in this generation that is what those places people are looking for I’m looking for a place where my tattoos are going to be
Welcome where my dreads are going to be welcome where this and so as you as our Mars Hill students go in and and try to get these jobs they want to let those employeers know hey I know how to work with people like that I don’t have a
Hang with people I know that’s what going to have here and how that’s an asset to the production of your company and that’s what you want and because it doesn’t matter that person might graduated of Harvard but have they been working in diversity for the time they’re at Harvard unlike us here at
Mars Hill been doing so I might think oh man I’m small this small school but I’m just as competitive as that name dropped to Harvard because I got the skills that the employer wants so that their business can Thrive and that’s the important because that’s not what’s
Going to you know that’s again going disingenuous of Dei people oh we got to do away with it the world isn’t going to change it’s you know that’s what’s has changed we’re not getting away from Dei it’s becoming more diverse more exactly exactly right I also hear affirmative action getting an unfair
Advantage and I’ve had some conversations with somebody I won’t name the school he was from but he said um well this is not there and I said your parents went to this college didn’t he said yeah he says they donate to the college didn’t they he said yeah you’re
Considered Legacy aren’t you he goes well I earned that and I said how how did you earn that right well and and and so there there’s this idea there you know un people talk about Dr King’s dream people have this dream um uh um of this
Um of this reality this dream of this reality that you know everybody is is like you said this that if we allow something like affirmative action if we allow something um if you have a problem with affirmative action then you have a problem with College athletics you have a problem with
Academic scholarships you have a problem with scholarships across the board because that’s also allowing certain groups or people with certain talents in you know if you want to say well you know affirmative action is all about about race or gender well Athletics is about athletic ability you know hey if
If you know if you’re not a football player then you know and so that’s what I remember we were talking about I said that is the genie that has been Unleashed in the bottle that I don’t think people realize yo we do away from inaction bigger schools all sudden said
Oh okay wait a minute there’s a problem because now somebody’s going to come and sue us and say it’s not fair that that football player got a scholarship and I don’t play football and I didn’t get it why is he getting money I’m not and so
All a sudden you’re GNA have these suits and all a sudden you’re not going to have and you know I’m in North Carolina with basketball is King all a sudden you don’t have you know anybody going to March Madness and all a sudden you don’t have anybody going to the bowl games and
Everything else and so that’s why you saw all these big schools were starting to do what they’re starting to say okay well now any student that applies that comes from a family that makes under $770,000 they can come here for free why because it takes away that problem but
It hurts smaller schools because Marcel can’t afford to do that we can’t AFF you know but that’s how they’re that’s how these B schools are trying to get around that because now all a sudden people wait a minute it’s not this you know and that then goes back to the opportunity
You know and so a lot of people want to guar T you know we see it all the time come the time of of application well I I was in AP class I was in this class I was you know president student bu all
This I should be able to have my pick no the whole idea is you did all that for a better chance but it wasn’t a guarantee and so also when you have something like affirmative action or um other scholarships it seems like you’re losing that guarante I’m losing out they’re
Taking it away taking away from what because after school with airm inter action is overrun with you know people of color is overrun with you know even when they you know they when you look at it in the numbers who are they taking it away from and anyway the whole idea is
That it’s about people who already meet the criteria but because they might have been from a rural area that might have been from the inner city or something else they were being ignored like we talked just talked about ear earlier this social stigma that we have oh well
They’re from here they don’t know but they have all the credentials but we won’t look at them because they’re from over here or they look like this or they believe like that or they um they U identifi this way what the the the whole process was no take away that barrier
And say here are people who are qualified that you were weren’t looking at because they were this race or this religion or this U sexual orientation you need to look at them and give them the same opportunity that you were denying them because of that social
Stigma but now that’s oh wait a minute that means I’m losing now losing now from what so you had a guaranteed seat that was taken away well uh no so you didn’t have a guarantee but your whole attitude is that you had a guarantee and somebody took it away so this whole so
You know so you believe um this fairy tale and you want the fairy tale to continue and so you’re you’re mad that if if we talk about the reality you all sudden you have to become re you have to realize that you believe in a fairy tale and not a you
Know not the truth so what what what people want to do is they want to hold on to the fairy tale don’t tell me the truth you know lie to me you know that and that’s what it is this is this is whole is we we got to believe and this
You know and that’s why you see this all we’re we’re not a we’re not a racist Nation we’re not a sexist Nation we’re not a homophobic Rel we’re not really and and show me where when we haven’t been show me when we weren’t even that
Way in in in colonial times I was just teaching to my class the other day about how Ben Franklin wrote um the address about um editorial about um German immigrants coming to um Pennsylvania when it was still a colony he wrote a letter to the king said why are we
Having established an English colony and allowing German people to come in here because they’re going to germanize us instead of us anglicizing them that’s Benjamin Franklin talking about German immigrants even before we became a nation so this whole idea that if we let too many of these folks in they’re going
To change us they’re going to take away our opportunity that’s the fairy tale the the reality is no they’re not no we’re not the the reality is supposed to be if we’re going to be a place where everyone has an opportunity where we believe that everyone should have an
Opportunity then it has to be everyone and not certain ones but you see this resistance to that reality I rather believe believe in the phir and so then when that’s put out and when you’re confronted with it then oh we you have to start tap dancing and spin oh no
We’re not that way oh that’s that’s them not me well if we’re soring about it then it’s us you know it could be them doing it but if you’re not saying or fighting against it then it’s us then you’re actually you know condoning it which you believe so um so that’s that
That that that thing with the you know affirmative action and all these things well no it’s it’s they’re they’re stealing they’re stealing from what from who how and again you’re picking and choosing because you sure ain’t saying that when I see you on the Jumbotron um
Jumping up and down because you just won the national championship and th those those um um players that don’t look like you believe like you are the ones that you know were on the court that W it for you oh now you love them but that’s
Right but as soon as the the season’s over now you hate them exactly exactly now you do a great deal of work in the community now you’re very heavily involved so as you started to reach out into the community what was that first step it had to be challenging what did you
Do well I think the main step has been that um people know Marsh Hill is here and so it’s it’s creating this this bridge creating this this Avenue that Mars Hill is part of the community and how can we work together to help one another students come to Marsh Hill they arrive
In August they leave in may they do that for four to five years they’re Mars Hill residents they’re Madison County residents because out of the 12 months of the year you would say really look at it 10 months they live they live here so they need to understand the
Community’s um ideas community’s Visions um the community wants and work to be part of that but the community also needs to understand that they’re part of how do we help them because they’re part of and so there always been this reach out to how do we collaborate how do we
Make sure people understand that this is what community is all about it’s not uh it’s not Transit and even if it was trans this person was coming in and out this share space we we we share a time and space me and you are sharing a time
And space right now we are a community it might be oh well you’re only together for you know 10 minutes 20 minutes 10 hours 10 days 10 years but the time that we share is a community so how do we share this time and space together better and how do we recognize each
Other’s wants and needs and desires and work to help make them you know happen as best we can you know we’re not going to make it 100% but how can we go about doing that um again close to it and so that that’s really been the reach out of
How do we how do we unfold that how do we um um as they talk how do we make life a vend diag the overlap you know and when you start looking at your life and all that our whole life is a VIN diagram there’s all these overlapping things and how do
We how do we recognize that and work to enhance that because that’s the reality and so um there you know there’s hesitant because again like you know we we have about 900 students on on on campus and then you know about 200 50 that might be communist on what but all
A sudden you you’re getting 900 people come pouring into this town all this dver you know International you know there people that live here um that wait a minute what’s you know what’s going on how do you how do you you know fight that fear that angst and everything else
But also you get you know you get people um like I said how do I convince if I’m if I’m a coach and our soccer coach say how am I convincing these Scottish parents to allow their Scottish child to come across the Atlantic and come to the
Small little school in the mountains of North Carolina when what they’re seeing on TV of America and everything that’s going on and what they might have heard about the this say well man they’re going to be safe and not just in Scotland or International place out of
Atlanta or Miami or New York we’re getting no students or even right down the road in Ashville you know how because we say Well they’re going to come here and we’re going to make them part of our community well what does that Community really what does that
Mean and how do we do that but then understand people here in Marshal and mass county buin county western North Carolina and Eastern Tennessee and all that understand they’re also part of your community because when they come off the campus of Mars Hill and they go into Weaver bille to Walmart you
Know and they don’t have a Mars Hill shirt they’re just you know they’re just wearing unidentified clothes people see understand that there’s this diversity that’s here how are they going to be welcome how how do they feel protected and and and so that’s that’s the thing that has to be looked at so
That has to be you know worked on with these different groups as they recognize how do we help our communities grow and understand um the realities of the 21st century you know this the realities of um being United and you know again we’re going to be United how do we how do we
How do we gain that Union and then how do we make that Union stronger exactly you told me the conversations are are Geared for acceptance not necessarily understanding because you may never understand right what what it’s like to be a black minority woman right yeah but it’s all
About acceptance is that correct right it’s it’s it’s about you know is um a developing term um emotional intelligence yes and is being basically is just is is being aware of the diversity that people have and understanding that their experiences aren’t the same as yours and that should
Help guide your interactions like I I I talk about with my wife if I if I if I said to my wife you know bras are aren’t uncomfortable they they all they do BR help help with um you know support and they’re not they’re not uncomfortable at all and I don’t
Know why people say that because that’s not real my wife will look at me like I’m crazy not that I know if her bras AR comfortable or not but be like well when have you wore a bra when have you gone bra shopping when well I haven’t but you
Know I I’ve I’ve been around people who worn bras and they haven’t seen uncomfortable so you know emotional intelligence understand wait a minute what do I know and don’t know what am I SP what do I might need to ask you know hey can you inform me what can be
Realistic understanding if I look at the history of BR and who developed was developed by a man if you look at some of those you know if you look at some of those braws from the 50s it looks like they were uncomfortable and had you know this this whole idea of understanding
This the diverse experience that these people that people have then I’ll be intelligent enough to know okay how do I be empathetic sympathetic how do I how do I be understanding how do I is people say now give Grace give uh uh room to say okay I don’t know everything and
Even if I have that opinion maybe I need to keep that opinion to myself because I might find out my opinion is wrong and actually be open to listening and so um um accepting the differences accepting the different points of you know one thing that we that we’re um that we work on
Hard in this you on this campus is that um where marsho is located because of the diversity comes in here and because a lot of people see that oh universities are liberal Mar marm about the school is not liberal it’s not conservative it’s moderate but we we have mix but we’re in
A uh congressional district that is very very rich Mar was located where um Mark medals was the congressman then M caror the congressman who wasm um the wheelchair that everybody’s very very R very conservative well again you’re bringing in a whole lot of diversity you’re bringing in some people who that
Are quotequote liberal or Progressive how do we have conversations of trying to uh accept different people’s point of view might not agree about it you know but accept Okay this is why you why you feel this way this is why I feel that way we might not agree but I can see why
You’re feeling this way let’s talk about you know is there a way to change but also not be about well I got to change you or you you’re you’re wrong I don’t agree with that I I I I might really think that’s wrong but also you know as
Long as you’re not trying to cause me harm or try to create harm for others hey you know you’re not saying we got to pick up a weapon and go you know kill people you are entitled to op P now again is it harmful are you saying something that’s
Harmful you know racist homophobic and things like that now wait a minute you know understand we can we really need to have a talk about this about trauma you don’t have the right to cause trauma to somebody but I need to also accept that that you you might have a different
Point of view if you’re coming from you know this this this background compared to my background I have a different background than a lot of people my my father was one of the first of um um three um African-American um um chaplain in the um Federal Bureau of Prisons um
And so um I grew up around around prisons you know I I we we went into we went into the institutions and had service you know we were amongst the men so I I have this understanding of what it means to be incarcerated and the trauma that caused what caus you to be
Incarcerated but also the life that goes on as you’re incarcerating things so I have a different that background shapes where I am but that’s different than somebody else who might have grown up in a farm or even grew up in in a a city so that my emotional intelligence is recognizing
Those differences and so as I recognize it as we interact keeping that in mind so even as I say something I might say well hey as I’m saying this I need watch what I’m saying because you you know I can’t remember we if we talked about this right but um
Um eight well going on nine years ago I had bariatric surgery so at the time I had um um surgery I was 560 pounds so I’ve lost over 320 pounds so but my emotional intelligence tells me as I talk with somebody and we talk about weight and size and how people react to
That and you know being aware of my experience that shapes how I how I talk with folks it shapes how I hear folks and and how I try to guide in conversations the emotional intelligence is also you know being aware of my background might be different and my
Experiences are different but how that should shape my interactions with other people but also trying to get them to be aware of their differences and how it should see their interactions with me exactly you hit a point where um now you can have a conversation even if someone
Say something and they meant no harm by you can now at least say you know I know you didn’t mean any harm with that but did you consider this right and you can have a dialogue as opposed to a confrontation right right that’s that’s a thing um I remember I had a professor
Here um um Dr Lindberg and he says you know he goes he was talking about abortion right he goes if you ever seen um because you never you you have never seen a discussion on the board you seen arguments he says either side is yelling at the other this is what I
Believe and you’re wrong he says there’s never been he says you never see okay let’s discuss we don’t agree but let’s discuss and see he says he says that that that’s a lot of times the problems in conversations and that’s why I I talk about a lot of times with um deal with
The the the uh of having hard conversations I said the first thing you have to decide are you going to have a conversation or you going to have argument you know conversation might mean yes I feel uncomfortable I might get upset but we’re we’re again at the
End the reason people don’t want to have hard conversations because the conversation there’s no again goes back there’s no guarantee there’s no resolution or guarantee we’re going to talk and we’re going to come to an understanding and reading no we can talk and we still disagree and still haven’t
Resolved anything people don’t want that they want boom you know there’s going to be a solution and you know and doesn’t happen so they avoid having hard conversations so then we avoid dealing with those hard topics you know we can have hard arguments because I know I’m
Not going to change you so I’m just yelling at you and I’m venting but you’re not changing me and I’m not changing you so there there there was no expectation of a solution in the conversation there’s like oh well we we talk you know you think about when
People say well I I thought we were going to do this we talked about it like you know since we talked about we came to agreement it’s like well know we just talked about we had a conversation I mean and so when people realize that’s not that guarantee well I don’t want to
Have that because I want to guarantee that we talk about it there’s going to be a solution and usually we want the solution in my favor so you know so that’s why I rather not talk about it but you know if we never talk about it we never move forward so the
Conversation has to be that it’s not a oneoff conversations might you know be you know multiple it’s will be multiple times multiple days months here a it’s a journey trying to find that common point where we can then move together but it it’s a journey and
And and that that is a reluctance and so then that then shapes decisions of policy um decisions of access and opportunity because again you have to have conversations about to to change the goal and to set the goal and and no I just read boom and and so therefore if
You avoid the conversation then the goals are never where they need to be and there’s never a process put in there to actually reach it in a way that is Progressive and uh and Progressive for all parties that all parties are gaining something exactly right this is incredible Jonathan after people see
This they’re going to want to get a hold of you how do they get a hold of you well the easiest way is um email me at Mars Hill um you can come to our website you’ll see um Mars Hill but um it’s um
Jonathan umore McCoy so I’m j o n a t h n as my as my aunt you say Joe Nathan J Jonathan then McCoy MC y mhu.edu um so my my email is the easiest way also if you when you come to the marshill website um if you you’ll
See down on the left bottom left you’ll see the Center for diversity Equity inclusion and you can click that and that has my contact and that has my um the office number um and so um I I get reports on where whoever calls my office number leaves a message I get a report
On my cell phone also so I’ll I’ll see it then I’ll be able to get back so um and that number for my office is um 828 689 1508 and so that’s the office number for um um the Center for diversity inclusion at Mar again 828 I can assure you ladies
And gentlemen when you when you contact him he gets back to you quickly and as you’ve heard for the last close to an hour here he is intriguing speaker and is somebody you need to know you need to know this man now as I said we’re just
About out of time I want to thank Jonathan and again for showing us that we’re all better when everybody has an opportunity to improve their position now you could see this show on my podcast which is called life altering events you can see it on my YouTube
Channel on Parade deck and I’ll send links to Jonathan he’ll post it wherever he posts things um in his world if you use the YouTube channel Please Subscribe and let me leave you with this as I do every week none of us are in this alone
And the secret to walking on water is to know where the rocks are and today Jonathan showed us where many many of those rocks Are
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