He Hello everybody welcome back to another episode of the male perspective I am your host Lana Reed and today today is another one of these wonderful days I get to sit down with another amazing man of five Beta Sigma fraternity Incorporated today I have with me Dr
Michael Thomas he is an educator out in the Cleveland Ohio area and I am looking forward to spending some time with him and making his brain about this whole k through2 thing but first and foremost as I always do sir I take a quick moment to
Pause and say thank you to you for making time for me today time is a gift once we give we can’t get it back so I truly appreciate you setting some time in your day to sit down and chat with L me and with that sir welcome welcome to
The show thank you thank you not a problem have time you give time awesome well as I start off asking uh with these interviews let me ask how long have you been a sigma man and where did you pledge whoa I pledge spring 89 H kstate University Epsilon Epsilon chapter mile mile
89 you’re about you’re about uh well let me see here I started UCLA 87 so you’re about two years behind me you’re 50ish or so yes 58 58 okay all right my I’m 58 I’m happy 58 so what was it about five bet Sigma where you said that that’s the
Place I belong that’s for me uh wasn’t chased wasn’t uh oh yeah you should be in this you gotta be in that they act like they didn’t care like who are you they like who are you we don’t need you I was like whoa because I mean coming
From high school you know I was a high school basketball football Bas no all around athlete you were that guy you were that guy I was that guy and you know I got on campus and they had K State was known to be a party school so
They had some of the you know best DJs coming out of you know Ohio there and I made my way in there and I made a name for myself DJing so I just as a freshman I just thought I was just it yeah everybody want me I knew
Everybody in the fraternities okay and know I just was all around just an allaround guy so it was like what are you going to do had couple of interest and you know because they like H who who are y’all who are you who are y’all who are you like what you know
Y’all don’t know who I had that going on and one thing led to another and then a friend of mine when he became a friend of mine he was like hey man look we may have came off a little you know harsh he said but you know be
Honest we don’t need you and I was like uh he said but we like a person like you awesome awesome you’re somebody that can benefit anybody’s fraternity you know you will be an asset and he made it plain and simple he said so if you want
To come aboard okay now this road is gonna be rough it’s not gonna be easy you say everybody that’s your friends and one of my good friends like go say he’s one of my best friends he was online before before me and I used to see him running and this that and I
Like yeah and he was like Hey I ain’t taking it easy on you but if you want to be a part of this you gonna work yes not a stranger for work for hard work and it was on ever since that’s great that’s great pledging has a
A lot of life lessons in it that carries out throughout the uh throughout the year so that’s amazing that’s awesome story well let me ask you this let me get on to the um your career field because I have a short amount of time
With you today and I want to pack in a lot of stuff I got qu I got questions today um you are in public education you’ve been in public education for many many years and most of us know well most of us should know that it’s very rare
That we see black men in educator roles um so I’m curious what made you pursue that as a profession well it wasn’t my first choice I wanted to I wanted to write speeches for the president I’m good for with writing okay you know and I’m you know I’m I’m a
Character at times so you know I saw myself just behind the scenes writing something you know let me write this speech let me edit this speech or no you’re saying that wrong you’re like hey you know you said the wrong sentence I know what you meant but this is what you
Should say you know okay and that didn’t pan out being at you know kin State University let’s just say they weren’t African-American friendly at that time oh so they kind of you know put roadblocks and obstacles in my way to get to a certain point okay so come back home
Football coach you know saw running to him he was like hey come back and help me I said no problem coach I’ll come and help you you know you know time off vacations you know whatever I’ll come back and help you he said no I need help
Come and help me help me out I was like coach I just said I will help you out what are you talking about and he was always one to say something or tell you something but you have to figure it out m and so we went back and forth for about
A good 15 minutes okay like all right well and then he finally said he just looked at me he said you know I always got to explain something to you I’m like yes he he said I need you to help me out like I helped
You and I was like well yeah you’re my teacher he said no outside of teacher think about it these kids need help just like you did and get home I was like whoa just sat back I sat there I was like uh dropped a tiar he was like now I
Get it now I get it and it makes sense so I switched over from Communications you know to education but I went back and got my communication degree along with my education like been back my first job was teaching at the junior high school that I
Attended and the same desk that I cared my name in was still there like comes full circle life comes full circle has Kent State um because you mentioned that it wasn’t uh friendly for us has has the demographics changed now is it not really not really it’s it’s still
Predominantly you know a white school but there are more African-Americans attending there okay I’m always puzzled because my assumption is Ohio is predominantly largely populated by people of color so when I hear the University don’t mirror that I’m I’m perplexed as to how that happens no no to me that’s not the case
I’ve always felt with a vast vast minority in Ohio Cleveland in Cleveland okay I mean yet there’s a lot of us but no not not okay all right so so let me let me ask you this because one of the things that we’re hearing quite often in
Today’s uh social media news media cycle um students uh parents uh staff are complaining that public education is is going through some stuff right um and something needs to happen since you’ve been in the gang for so many so many years what has change why are we at this point now what has
Changed to make it where where we’re at right now that you can’t say that you can’t speak on I guess I should ask well um a lot of things well some things that have changed is the let’s say parenting that’s number one I hear that often okay so you know coming from a
Time where you know hey everybody could discipline you or you even wanted to learn versus going through now was like hey he is not even thinking about learning it’s not cool to learn it’s not cool to be smart it’s not cool you know hey i’ rather sit here sit on the couch
Play a video game than they come to school suspend me I rather be at home wow oh I don’t care I don’t care you call the parent in and you get the same thing my child said this that like whoa slow don’t let the shirt and Top Fool you please
Look you know and i’ I’m fortunate enough that I have taught a plethora of kids some of their kids and maybe a few grandkids get out of here I may go to a school hey got I want to see this person I want to see that I walk in the
Office Miss Thomas what you doing here oh yeah you need to help me with this teacher I was like excuse excuse me I’m that teacher he talking about yeah your daughter your son is ex man oh and you know how I am nothing’s changed you giving
Him okay so before you do that now let’s talk about this your child is saying this and this is how they’re acting and so me I don’t mind I don’t pull no punches um you were like that too app don’t fall for from the tree
Remember what I told you you have a kid they get acting bad don’t get mad because look how you acting in a couple cases that’s came true and you know so we laugh and we joke about it but yeah there there’s a big problem and then you know
This society as a whole the way things are going it’s it’s just not not good seeing education now education is not education anymore it’s a business education and business are two different things so now when you’re treating the kids as just a business and not educating and you wonder why African-American know graduation
Rate is what 50% it was F wow that’s a problem yeah there is a problem so um in preparation for today’s show I read a article that Cleveland metropolitan school district faced uh some budget challenges this year last year this year um how has that impacted School staff students or has it impacted
School stat well like I say we’re just getting wind of this this budget thing the deficits and things like so they’re dealing with that talking about it so we have a new CEO and who used to work in the district hold on let me I I don’t like to
Interrupt but you said CE o so is the organization of Cleveland metropolitan school district that’s unfamiliar to me that you guys have a CEO is that common yeah yes okay learn me something okay go ahead o f o c h o okay go ahead you know so now he’s in
Charge and this is it’s his baby so once he do his budgeting everything he’s finding that okay there discrepancies here there there or however they do it okay okay um oh well we don’t have money to do this so we got to cut this or we
Got to cut that we got to cut that now us as teachers we see we know what’s going on there’s a lot of things that money is wasted on but every District you know money is wasted on based on those that hire up they do what they they feel how
They do some things that are okay but then some things you have positions that you want to get rid of but you want to get rid of your teachers first that’s C crazy we don’t have we don’t have teachers as it is we can’t get subs substitutes so now they’re you know and
To me I feel they’re targeting certain teachers who’ve been around for a while let’s get rid of them first so we don’t have to pay retirement and such and get out of here there are different things that that’ll come at you they put pressure on the principles principles put pressure on the
Teachers because a lot of times principles forgot that they were in a classroom and right or you have those that never were in a classroom so you don’t understand you’re just a figurehead and so and then some are you know it’s it’s a fear thing you fear your boss somewhat you’re supposed you’re
You’re supposed to fear this person that’s head up that’s in charge a they can just come down and that’s your job that’s your head okay I get that but still there’s the we’re all to know you’re smart you’re educated you went to college just because you went to college smart but um
You uh you should have some level of intellect okay some level of reasoning some some some a little bit to help you a little bit and you know so there becomes a big disconnect and then Here Comes This budget thing it hasn’t affected us yet because we don’t know
What they’re doing so nobody saying how this is going to play out at all speculation speculation now to make to make it matters make sense we know what’s going to get cut can we deal with those cuts some of those cuts you’re going to deal with some people’s
Salary but not the higher ups probably no wow if I get rid of this and get rid of that I can pay me if I was of that mindset of things got got got got you understood understood if I was on that other side of the track you know yeah I do that
Understood now so we you mentioned that we have a shortage of Subs where we’re possibly going to cut teachers to deal with this B budget deficit um but another area where it seems like we’re having problems keeping people in positions is like bus drivers and school
Ta why why why those positions we can’t feel I mean I know the sub teacher and everything but we can’t get the bus driver and and the cafeteria worker all across the board there are problems there are money problems and we’re when you come up on that
Negotiation year oh we always want to make Cuts let’s fight let’s let’s see what we can get it’s a unnecessary battle but yeah wow all across the where you don’t have enough cleaners in your room and then you’re not really you know I’m sorry the economy goes up inflation goes
Up you have to pay people more you have to pay people to live yeah do saying especially teachers I mean there’s so much writing on the teachers job I mean the future of our what our communities look like depend on the pouring into these students in this classroom that the
Teacher is able to do so I mean it it seems like a no-brainer to me it seem but you know hey it’s one of them subjects that nobody wants to talk about nobody wants to get into except for maybe if you retired and you’re not you know double dipping or
Whatever you know I retire I’m telling it all say look I got a book coming out I’m going on everybody show and I’m hey this is problem we got bring back Phil donu for you we got some we got some oh my goodness gracious it it just you
Know it just really is because I keep on hearing it you know and sometimes you know when you’re on social media you’re like okay you know that’s just elevating something that maybe it’s not an issue but it just seems to be everywhere I go I keep on hearing that this is a problem
This is a problem and and it’s such a deep issue that nobody wants to tackle it because hey there there’s a way around you may end up losing your job and if that’s your livelihood you’re in trouble you you will say that is a problem it’s a big problem you want somebody it’s
Like teachers are pleading do something research do something you have the power to do this I can’t but I’m telling you to do this and I can point you in this direction or that direction but do something but I have to remain quiet because if anybody see this and be like
Oh oh really ah well now let me come at you so a lot that’s why a lot of people don’t talk wow they go around the issue like I always have this thing I say talk to me not at me and definitely not around me Goa but in this instance we can’t talk
To we have to talk at and around I mean somebody could take this right here somebody in the higher powers that be and see this and some things that I may have said or you inferred you implied ch ch byebye okay we’re gonna keep it on a
Straight and narrow we gonna keep it on a straight and narrow because we need to keep you we need to keep the lights on um well let me ask you one question hopefully this won’t get in in too much trouble but you mentioned earlier uh about principles my question is the pathway to
Becoming a principal is not always through the classroom you don’t always have to have that experience not anymore oh not not anymore back back then you you used to at least have three years five years of classroom you know experience then you become an assistant principal for a couple of years then if
There’s an opening and you’ve deemed yourself worthy you can become a principal now they have these classes like hey [ __ ] oh you coming in you teach hey we got this course here we have this course here principal ship be assistant principal wow things have changed things have changed well let me
Ask you this another new phenomenon that we’ve seen creep up over the years is this concept of charter schools how does that impact your traditional K through2 campuses um a lot of schools aren’t K through 12 they’re M get K through 8 and then you go you have your regular high school
They did break that off okay but the charter schools know they may go k through 12 you know but they’re they’re small because if you tell a parent hey we have smaller classrooms we don’t have all these kids all this noise all you know just distractions that’s good I want that
Because I want the best for my kid I’m sorry every kid that them came from a charter school and transferred in because of budget cuts and that school is not there no more has transferred over into my building like okay so you’re supposed to have the best of the
Best and you get this um you don’t know this you don’t know that uh you don’t know this no and then a lot of people in charter schools for some reason they don’t like it they get out of it and they come over so I mean it’s a you know it’s
5050 okay so okay and okay so let me see here in charter schools Educators do not have to necessarily have the same credentials as you’re supposed to but I’ve known some some teachers in charter schools that didn’t go to college I’ve known some that they don’t
Have a degree they don’t have a degree in education they don’t have a degree oh they took some some courses no yes because know with there when you need people you have to feel this you gonna feel it the best way you can okay and you want people in your
Building hey I know I well I know this person I know they going to handle they going to handle this and hey you go take these classes these courses over time you know whatever then you you’ll be okay but a lot of times that’s how it is get out of
Here you know I’m I’m so far removed from it you know you hear the words you hear the terms I don’t really like delve too deep into it but you know you just have you just have expectations you’re like okay this is a school here in the
United States if you’re going to teach some students there are certain regulations and requirements that we should be expecting for you to fulfill and being properly trained to teach produc students would be a minor expectation me I’m thinking there’s a lot wrong with public education there’s a lot there’s a lot
Wrong with education period but it didn’t used to be that I mean I’m I’m a I’m a product of public education so I’m I’m just always perplexed like how did we get here it was it just you know somebody just said we’re not going to invest in kids anymore or things change
Ideas change some people that were a product product of one thing once they got older you know he no I I didn’t like that so now I’m in power I can change that okay once you get in power you can change anything you want once you get in
That position so yeah it happens give me a a bunch of people that you know buy into my program we can do this but what what what our grandmothers used to say uh don’t just eat the meat and throw out the bone I mean you got to keep some
Parts of it right you got to keep some parts of it okay well let me ask you this then uh let me let me segue here and stay on some safe stuff here um we we hear this constant term all the time about um ideal class size Educators have ideal
Class siiz preferences in your perfect world in your perfect world so you can you know give each student the proper time dedication they need what what’s an ideal class size well for me it’s different because I can do a lot my biggest class at one time was
46 and they all learned something small classroom on top of each other but you know I why did you have 46 people in a class that’s how it was I have what uh four different class five different classes four different classes 46 42 43 and one was
30 that’s how and that’s how it was for everybody on my whole team but that’s how it was at that time but ideal for me you know they say oh smaller classroom sizes that you give me 18 for me even TW 20 you give me 20 I’m good
Okay and that’s with the you know the one what they want to call them the problem kids or you know uh belligerent disrespectful ones you give me and we gonna learn I can make something work I can make something work I I didn’t ask this uh what what is your what is your
Uh grade level do you teach or what I teach Middle School oh okay so you got some busy bodies you got some six seventh and eighth graders that just smelling themselves and they’re all over the place you know the conversations that I listen to like get your point all
Right stop Focus you know because I’ll let you work once I go over the lesson and we break off in groups and whatever I’ll let you have your conversation okay I play music okay you know I listen I let them I DJ so let them listen to me you know DJ
Sometimes and we just have we have a ball but then when it gets too out of hand or just really inappropriate all right that’s it shut it down if you can’t do that get out gotta gotta gotta is it hard I mean because you seem relatable as a educator to the students
Um and you probably know better what they need what’s going to get the job done is it hard to balance that versus what admin rtion expects you to do yes an know yes I know one I I’ve been indoctrination realm of society so I can you know we can discuss a trickle down
Theory so I understand that M but then also I’m a product of of my environment I like I tell them I come from the hood and a lot of the family members some they know me they be like oh yeah he’s a teacher but he wasn’t
Always a teacher yeah and so you know I can relate when I talk to him I just sit and I relate so yeah you want to be in my classroom you you you get kicked out of another class come on sit there do your work don’t say nothing don’t talk
Whatever you know and I come up for lunch can we do this I don’t mind I don’t care come on gota Goa but I you know I talk to them there’s a way you talk to and then there’s a way you put your your foot on their
Neck and then you have to be able to talk to them you know once we go into a meeting with their parents and whoever you have to be able to you know explain this and then all right hey no no fers on the wall no bugs in here look him he
Scar we got to make sure teachers don’t see okay all right okay okay and and now that brings me to another issue that I have um especially when it comes to our kids so you’re relatable you understand what gets the job done what’s going to
Be effective but we don’t have a lot of Dr Thomas’s in in public education system system what we have in K through2 is predominantly women and predominantly white women who are teachers in these classroom so um because you’ve been at this forum for a while now how do you
Tell these teachers to effectively teach students who they don’t have the cultural experience background understanding um and they’re standing in front of kids who there’s a a little bit of disconnect how do they become effective listen listen listen to what they’re saying then listen to what they’re not
Saying if you don’t know because there’s a cultural disconnect find somebody and ask them love them show them that you care you show them you care they’re T them they’re okay and you and you’ll be fine now if you come in here on some trash and you
I’ve seen you act like you’re better than them and they’re nothing you talk down to them because you have a little something oh you’re going to lose them you’re gonna lose your classroom and guess what you’re GNA be crying every day you’re going to have a problem are they um do you see
Them mastering this more often than they do not or is it I I see a lot of them they they try they try they care they care it’s like hey this is these are my kids besides my own these are my kids so my kids ask me like how many kids do you
Got I’m like um 120 but there’s going to be one to be like he means us and I be like okay yeah you got it why y’all here with me y’all my kids so you know some of them they may not say Dr Thomas a say Mr Thomas they be like hey
Uh hey Daddy can I get some money it’s a village it is truly a village yes it is truly a village and you know and I let them joke like that a lot of teachers they won’t let them joke like that I mean that that’s harmless that’s harmless and then you
Have some you know in our community we know how they don’t have a father they don’t have an uncle grandfather they don’t have that male figure as they’re like okay so if you had the opportunity to stand in front of a young man who’s probably in his college career and he’s like you
Know Dr Thomas I’m considering becoming an educator and you had a moment to sit down and give him the pros and cons and you know this is what to expect what what would the uh conversation be like are you crazy no I’m just kidding he educated come on now come on Dr Thomas
I’m expecting more we gotta get him in there now Spock pull out your Dr you know I would I would tell him to you know you know we need more but really think about you know the type of person you are are you quick you have a quick temper are you quick to
Just like uh get frustrated if you are maybe this not for you because I’ve seen some come get mad and just lose it and then they go I’ve seen teachers come in one day you don’t even make it to lunch I’m out of here boom
Go it it’s and it’s it has gotten it worse but you have to have a certain about yourself to be like hey I can be a that me myself you know if it wasn’t for you know that a good old Sigma would hey Lessons Learned lessons learned that They Carried you
Through so but I was like we need you but think about do you want what what level do you want how do you reach kids you know if something is a real problem what are you going to do when you hear this or you hear that something that would literally break your
Soul how can you handle that and then I’ll give them you know just you know it’s a easy fix it’s easy fix you just have to like I’m a Mason also okay so it’s something that you know we always say you know in masonry you have to subdue your
Passions you know and they’ll figure that out what that is and then you go about it and then have an outlet have something to decompress have something to decompress is it easy for black men to um move up through the ranks in you know start off
In in as a classroom teacher and to move to Administration and superintendent and stuff like that is it an easy I would say no but I was always told uh if you want to survive get out of the classroom go into Administration I don’t try to figure it
Out I don’t want to hear that because I have no aspirations of being a administrator none at all I mean I say well maybe my last three years I’ll be a principal or something but the lives that I touch in the classroom I’ll stay in the classroom
Awesome versus you know just having to go a meeting here this there and I know You by name and it’s or you’re a problem that no I need to know you in that like the back of my hand and I know all my students like that so and I you know and
I have them for years like this and even as they go on they come around I’ll see them in Walmart or you know whatever grocery store hey hey hey hey how you doing you don’t remember me yes I do you were a problem I remember all my
Problems you know and that makes them feel good but you have to be that individual to want to do that yeah it takes a special person to be a teacher and unfortunately you know black men we quick temper and a lot of stuff you know it’s like whoa this is
Disrespectful like that how you let these these kids just dis how can you deal with the disrespect every day all day or a whole we know for years you deal with that and you know one you got to have a sense of humor two you got to have some drinks and
Three I just be like you know it’s it’s it’s you as a person you find a way yeah do I get mad I get mad some days I don’t even want to go back I don’t I get some days I want to just push my chair in walk straight on
Out the door just whatever and I but then it’s students have seen over there you kind of get assistance from them once I get to that point where it’s like you know don’t do it it’s th don’t do it don’t do it ain’t worth it because
That’s the same thing I would say to them if they got into aration or it’s a problem or something is it worth it it ain’t worth it come on so they I find them you know saying the same thing to me relax relax breathe now why don’t you breathe huh can’t
Breathe taste your own medicine right we gonna throw it back at you right so you know it’s it’s it’s very hard it’s trying but I and then you got to love what you do if you’re not going to love it nah won’t work do something else let me ask you
One more question before my my random question here uh one of the things I I’ve often heard about black men who are in education is you’re often called to be the disciplinarian or does that happen to you all the time all the time all the time I joke around with my
Colleagues and I tell them like yeah black Superman here like what like black Superman and some um I’ll blast it on the speakers in my room so you can hear in the hallway like Superman and I’ll be in a hallway just I’m I’m assuming the rest of the
Staff understands Dr Thomas by now right yeah yes okay y’all know he crazy so just leave me alone but Um I don’t you know me I don’t mind okay I don’t mind and do I get I I told my principal once I don’t need accolades but you know thank you will be okay just a simple thank you know know I can see on their face they’re losing they going
Crazy come on need to relax doggy give them to me come on come on with me ground by the ear lightly ground by the ear they feel like that but you know they they like that come you put them in the headlock we just walk walk and talk
Be like hey come on now you know you ain’t going to be acting like you may be having a bad day or whatever what what happened you’re hungry aren’t you you got to find that out you know then you have to know your students it’s art to it it’s such an art
To it not everybody’s built for it I got little first graders second graders I don’t even see them because I’m upstairs where they come with a note that the door like like come on in what you scared of got that little note and you can you read that to me never
Mind don’t read it to me so you have to come to me oh boy so amazing it’s it’s that way it’s that way time goes on they they look forward to wanting to be in your classroom as the years go on I’m going to be in your
Classroom oh I’m going to be in your okay okay let me ask my random question and and then I’m going talk to you for a little bit more all right let’s see what I got here how often do you look at your phone every day busy having fun look at my my phone
Oh so I guess your your students are not looking at their phone in class either like oh no I have a no phone policy in classroom not at all no you don’t need that phone no no no we have I’m fortunate enough to have a whole cart full of
Chromebooks in my room okay so you know we can do that and but a lot of sites are blocked and a a lot of them aren’t so you know you’re doing your assignments and a lot now with this technology everybody wants to do the technology thing so it’s a lot of the curriculum
May be online have to do that but look at my look at at my phone put it on silence I know somebody want to call me up hey uh can you DJ hey can we we going to play golf or what we doing I’m at work calling me
F things have changed things have changed curriculum on the Chromebooks so they don’t have the The Paper Bag covering the books anymore like they used to and none of that right um they have these little workbooks now you spend money you know in within the budget the previous year you know you
Have money to spend on these work books that you know this company sold you dreaming some land over here in Egypt you know so you have that here or there I got you I got you okay all right well Dr Thomas I have truly enjoyed our conversation and uh our continued conversation
Today um first but further than that I I I just want to say um thank you to you for your dedication to our children I mean I just it just always amazing because I personally don’t have that I love the kids but to have done it uh in
The manner that you have done for so many years kudos to you because I I I would have uh it would have played out a whole different way you you you folks are just a very truly treasured uh people that can do that and I really don’t I I don’t
Think people appreciate the impact that Educators have on how Society functions as a whole because from that classroom we have our future politicians we have our future doctors we have our future generation of Educators and I I just don’t think that people give you guys uh
The credit you deserve so here from my end I mean just than you for all you do just thank you for all you do how many more years you going to be at this uh six hopefully six no we naming and claiming six yes nameing and claim oh that’s Cas
Four okay four that’s for full retirement four years no no um I can only do six it’s getting to a point where you know hey my sanity means more to me than anything else my mental state of being means more than anything else I’ll do six more okay well I appreciate
You from from Little me I know the kids say thank you and I’m hoping the staff says thank you but from Little me in my little corner of the world I want to say thank you for uh pouring into our future generations and future generations and
Future gener so we got we up to the grandbabies now the great we at the great grand babies yet in classroom Grand just Grand okay well thank you for that and I just I thank you for all you do thank you no problem I love that all that is all for
This week’s episode of the male perspective I’m your host Lana Reed and I will see you everybody next time
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