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In this episode, I speak with Ben Wildavsky, a seasoned expert in education policy and a visiting scholar at the University of Virginia School of Education and Human Development. Ben shares insights from his new book, “The Career Arts: Making the Most of College, Credentials, and Connections,” new from Princeton University Press in November 2023 which delves into making the most of college through career credentials and connections.
We explore the value of college education in today’s economic landscape, discussing the balance between acquiring broad skills and targeted skills that the job market demands. Ben’s perspective is rooted in extensive research and personal experiences, making our conversation not only informative but also deeply relatable for anyone thinking about the true value of higher education.
Ben also opens up about the concept of social capital and its critical role in career advancement, especially for first-generation college students. He provides practical advice on how students can build their networks and leverage these connections to enhance their career prospects.
This discussion is particularly close to my heart as we navigate the complexities of preparing students for a world that values both academic and practical skills. Ben’s thoughtful approach to these topics, combined with his genuine passion for education, makes this episode a must-listen for parents, students, and educators alike.
Join us as we unpack the tools necessary for turning educational investments into successful careers.
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Key Takeaways
00:02:21 – Early years and lessons on success
00:07:12 – Discussion on high school to college transition statistics
00:19:11 – Three important skills students should acquire in college
00:34:04 – Advice to parents about college preparation for their children
Tweetable Quotes
“I still believe there is a strong case for taking on a moderate amount of debt for college. You’re young, acquiring skills that the marketplace rewards. Borrow money, earn your degree, then get a job and start paying it back. You’ve invested in what economists call human capital.”
“Growing up, the notion of upward mobility and the American dream was apparent to me. My father, a child of immigrants, managed to go from modest beginnings to becoming a professor and owning a house in Oakland Hills. It taught me that with fortune and hard work, higher education can propel you forward.”
“It’s not just about having a degree or specific skills. If you don’t know anyone or can’t communicate your abilities, it’s hard to advance. Building networks, especially for those without inherited privileges, is crucial. It’s about who you know, who can vouch for you, and who can open doors to opportunities.”
Guest Resources
Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/ben.wildavsky/
Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/wildavsky/
LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/benwildavsky/
Twitter – https://twitter.com/Wildavsky
Book Mentioned:
The Career Arts – https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691239798/the-career-arts
Mindful Money Resources
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To buy Jonathan’s first book – Mindful Money: https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Money-Practices-Financial-Increasing/dp/1608684369
To buy Jonathan’s second book – Mindful Investing: https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Investing-Outcome-Greater-Well-Being/dp/1608688763
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Website: https://mindful.money
Jonathan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathandeyoe
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Ben Wildavsky [0:00 – 0:23]: I still am a traditionalist, where I believe there is actually a really good case for taking on a moderate amount of debt because you’re young and you don’t have a lot of the skills that the marketplace is rewarding. So borrow some money, maybe with government help, maybe from other sources, and then after you get your diploma, if everything goes well, your college degree, then you can get a job and you start paying it back because you’ve acquired what economists call human capital.
Ad [0:25 – 0:47]: Do you think money takes up more life space than it should? On this show, we discuss with and share stories from artists, authors, entrepreneurs, and advisors about how they mindfully minimize the time and energy spent thinking about money. Join your host, Jonathan DeYoe, and learn how to put money in its place and get more out of life.
Jonathan DeYoe [0:51 – 1:30]: Welcome back. On this episode of the Mindful Money podcast, I’m chatting with Ben Wildavsky. Ben hosts the Higher Ed Spotlight podcast, is a visiting scholar at University of Virginia School of education and human development. His decades of experience in journalism and education policy include leadership and research roles at Strada Education Network, the Brookings Institute, the Kaufman foundation, and US News and World Report. He’s the award winning author of the great Brain Race, the co editor of Reinventing Higher Education and Measuring Success. I wanted to talk to Ben about his new book, the career making the most of college career credentials and connections. Ben, welcome to the Mindful Money podcast.
Ben Wildavsky [1:30 – 1:32]: Oh, well, thank you so much for having me.
Jonathan DeYoe [1:33 – 1:36]: First, where do you call home and where are you connecting from?
Ben Wildavsky [1:37 – 2:12]: Well, I am in my home office in Chevy Chase, Maryland, about two blocks outside Washington, DC. My home office is the childhood bedroom of my youngest child, now 26 years old, living in Oakland, California. And that’s actually my real hometown. I was born in the Bay Area, grew up in Berkeley, went to high school in Oakland. But like a lot of people, I came to Washington a couple years out of college for a one year sort of intern type job, and one thing led to another and I ended up becoming a journalist and staying in DC and getting married. And I’ve been here now more than 30 years.
Jonathan DeYoe [2:13 – 2:19]: Yeah. So just take us back to your early years in Berkeley. What did you learn about success?
Ben Wildavsky [2:21 – 3:34]: Oh, gosh, that’s a great question. I mean, I was really there as a pretty small child. I actually moved away for a while before I came back. But, you know, you know, my dad was a professor at the University of California at Berkeley for 30 years. And so, you know, I suppose I don’t know if I was aware of this as a young child, but certainly the notion of upward mobility in the american dream was something that was very apparent to me because my father was the child of immigrants. You know, his father had gone to school, probably left school at age twelve or 13 in eastern Europe, had come to the United States with nothing. They were like, like many immigrant families, a very poor family. But this does not work for everybody. But in my dad’s case, you know, he was able to scrape into Brooklyn College and go for basically for almost nothing, go to college and ended up going to graduate school and getting a PhD and became a professor. So for him to get a house in the Oakland Hills, which is a beautiful part of Oakland, having come from pretty modest beginnings, that was, I think, one of the things that, nobody told me that exactly. But that’s one of the things that I learned, which is that if you were fortunate and you worked hard, you could get ahead through higher education.
Jonathan DeYoe [3:34 – 3:40]: I’m wondering about those early years, if money ever sort of arrives as a topic. Did you ever talk about it, or was it just taken for granted?
Ben Wildavsky [3:41 – 4:25]: Gosh, I mean, I suppose, you know, these things are all relative. You know, like a lot of people, we certainly, you know, we were in Berkeley, you know, and then, you know, my dad ended up living in the Oakland Hills, you know, so we were living what would be considered middle class or upper middle class neighborhoods. We did not think of ourselves as super wealthy. But of course, as you get older and you look around the world and you look around the United States, you realize there’s a huge variety of life circumstances. And oftentimes, you know, through no fault of their own, people end up in really tough situations. So I think that we did have a lot of privileges. I can’t say that was drilled into us because I think, like a lot of people, we just thought that our, we were living a fairly ordinary life.
Jonathan DeYoe [4:26 – 4:51]: I totally understand what you’re saying, and I kind of think that that’s the sense that we live an ordinary life, is gone. I think the flashlight has been shining pretty brightly on the differences now. So it’s difficult for kids, my kids, absolutely. No, they live a privileged life. Absolutely understand it. But that may not be the case for everyone. We’ll see. So before we dig into the book, can you kind of describe the arc of research and writing that leads you to writing career arts?
a few years back in the early:
Jonathan DeYoe [7:12 – 7:34]: I love you’re sort of introducing the three or four topics that I actually want to talk about. But just before we go there, there’s a lot of statistics around high school to college graduation. Can you kind of paint the numbers of people that end up leaving high schools in a year, the percentage of them that go to college, the percentage of those that graduate, and what kind of situations they graduate into, debt levels, those kinds of things?
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