Thank you foreign Thank you Foreign Thank you Hi everyone happy happy happy Wednesday welcome to dig deep conversations with Christian leaders I’m your host Dr geriosi aljo it is a rainy Wednesday here in Connecticut so I hope the weather where you are is nice and sunny and or warm I’m just really ready for summer
Um you know spring is nice spring is great when you have allergies it’s not the best it’s summer that I’m looking forward to so I hope the weather is good for you all I do want to welcome you to the show this evening my new series is
Starting it is called finding the Divine in the divine nine I have a black Greek organization so fraternities and sororities uh coming on Christian leaders that are active in their fraternities and their sororities coming on and we’re talking about their experiences of being Christian leaders and also being part of Greek
Organizations I’m very excited about this conversation I did post a question on Facebook the other day if you’re connected with me on Facebook I did post a question on Facebook the other day asking which sorority you think I would pledge if I was pledging and so I did
Get quite a few interesting answers so I think I’m gonna have to drop some hints throughout the series now I will tell you all that I am not a part of a sorority uh but I have always found uh this experience or this or these organizations very fascinating I think
They do a lot of great work in our communities and so part of that is why I wanted to have my guests come on so let’s get right into it if you don’t know me make sure that you stay connected to me and with me through Facebook social media Instagram YouTube
All of that good stuff it’s Daria C Audio basically on all social media except Twitter I don’t have Twitter anymore got rid of that after undergrad praise the Lord thank God because Twitter just is it’s a bit much for me right now but I do love Instagram do
Love Facebook make sure that you stay connected with me um I can’t wait to connect with you and to see where you’re watching from so if you’re watching the replay make sure you use the hashtag replay if you’re listening to the podcast thank you for listening thank you for tuning in and if
You are here just to represent your sorority or your fraternity please make sure that you shout them out in the comments let’s bring on our guest here on tonight we’ve got tea Asia and we’ve got Jonathan Hi how are you all hey we’re good good good good good thank you all again
So much for saying yes thank you for uh coming on and wanting to share your experiences with everyone absolutely my pleasure thank you for having us of course of course so before we get into our questions for the evening why don’t we just have you all introduce
Yourselves if you could just give us your name uh your fraternity or sorority your occupation and then I think one word to describe your fraternity or sorority Jonathan why don’t we start with you awesome um Jonathan Dukes I’m a army chaplain and guys did he taught me active duty
I have been in uh maybe sci-fi for four years now and one I’m also with an important y’all married with three awesome children so praise God for that I said that’s a big deal and I also I became a member of Grant chapter which is something that’s also
Significant that we’ll talk about later and when I think of a a maxi-fi friendship um that’s that’s really the resonating word I mean our model friendship decisions and so but if you’re not a good friend you know maybe it’s not for you okay I love it I love it thank you and we’ll
Get into uh your experience and what Drew you to this particular fraternity um for those of you that don’t know the divine nine uh there’s let’s see if I can get this right now here we go there’s Alphas akas kappas Deltas Sigma gamma rho Omega
Um Zetas and did I say sigmas no sigmas did that get on that oh and iota’s ooh [Laughter] and you should say all of their names because everybody mixes them up because they hear a stigma Sigma gamma rho they hear like people don’t know what belongs with what people I’m people that’s me
That’s me okay yeah yeah like trying to do the flyer like having a look up like on Google like let me I don’t want to mess this stuff up I don’t want to disrespect nobody let me make sure I’m getting this right is the spelling right it’s right
Like I just don’t even want to mess nothing up so I love that um hey everyone my name is tiasia Martin if you forget the Asia you can call me T um I have been a member of Sigma gamma Rose word Incorporated for now 12 years um I currently serve
Um as an admissions manager at a university here in Michigan um but I also run two businesses outside of that one is called the passionate Powerhouse where I help people create their personal brand or help small businesses launch their brand and then my second business is called RT financial
Investments where I help people find life insurance final expense or investment plans to meet their budget in their family’s needs uh so lots of work lots of work lots of work I love it we are here for a conversation about all things Christianity being a Christian leader being a leader in the community
Um and then also being an active member in your organization so I’ll share with you all um there are some folks that have very strong opinions about this um I I was sharing earlier I don’t feel um I don’t feel sort of one way or the
Other I don’t think it’s a bad thing I think it could be a really great thing to be a Christian and also be part of an organization um that is just my personal feelings my personal thoughts and opinions about it so the perspective tonight will certainly be from that lens
Um having my guests on here just talking about their experiences and just I think helping everyone to really understand sort of what um what is real and what is not I think there’s a lot of things out there that are being said and shared that are not necessarily real just from knowing other
People and organizations in fraternities and sororities and so I really just wanted a chance to have conversations with Christian leaders who have experienced this firsthand and it’s part of their perspective so thank you all again for coming on thank you I think it’s going to be a great conversation
We’re going to jump right into it um first can you all just share with me like why you chose um your particular is it okay to call them organizations or okay why so why did you all choose your particular organization so uh teenager let’s start with you please
Yeah so I think my journey to Sigma was very much curated for me um because at the time when I was looking at Sigma gamma row a lot of my peers were looking at other organizations um so it was a fun time for me and my group of friends while we were
First-year students at Grand Valley um Sigma stuck out to me once I kind of did some basic research and we’ll kind of go into talking about how to research and how to effectively approach an organization um but I chose Sigma because our Founders lived and experienced very much akin to my own
Um Sigma gamma rho is the only sorority to not be founded at HBCU with my Founders were very much accustomed to the experience of a predominantly white institution and the stress that that brings um not only that uh Butler University is situated in Indianapolis Indiana
So at the time when we were founded in 1922 uh we were right in the midst of the Ku Klux Klan and the Grand Master actually being in Indiana okay so when we think of resiliency of what black ones do um that stuck out to me I was an
Aspiring educator at the time as well so values wise the organization and the idea of the organization aligned with me and then it helped that I liked the girls in the chapter at Grand Valley I mean sometimes people don’t like the women or the people yeah the chapter right
Um but that was an added bonus I decided I wanted to join an organization that met my values and I could see myself matriculating through for the rest of my life uh I really wanted to make sure that if I partnered with other people that we could have a greater impact
Together as I recognize as one person I couldn’t do everything that I wanted to do on my phone yeah so Sigma became like the natural it for me I love that um so I made a couple of notes Here I didn’t realize that your particular organization
Um was not founded at an HBCU like that to me is just fascinating because you all I shouldn’t say you but I always associate you know black Greek organizations with being founded at an HBCU so that’s good too I want to talk a lot about nphc history
Listen I am just here to learn because it is again this um this sort of life is very fascinating to me has always been very interesting to me I was sharing earlier um I had wanted to pledge an undergrad but I didn’t have the GPA there were GPA
Requirements and at the time uh the chapter was at a school that was about 15 minutes away and I didn’t like have a car so no Transportation didn’t have the GPA and then by the time I did I think I just was too focused on wanting to graduate so yeah
Um but this this is very fascinating so thank you for sharing that Jonathan let’s hear your story why’d you choose uh the omegas well I first want to say that there was uh one paternity that was the first to be founded on a historically black College University and that would be
Omega sci-fi returning Incorporated so uh Alpha Phi Alpha and Kappa Alpha Psi were found on predominantly white institutions but we were the first uh fraternity founded on HBCU so you put that in your pocket as well so I have two I have two seeking Omega stories so I have my
Pre-jesus uh second level making so I had no idea about any black Greek uh letter organizations before I went to college and then my roommate was like Hey we’re gonna go to a probate and I’m like and I was like I don’t know who they are
But I want to be one of them and it was just this excitement about how they kind of set the culture for the campus when I was there um just very astounding in them in their masculinity and you know and then I went to class I was a electrical engineering
Students I’m like these same brothers that’s out here you know in the fatigues in the boots they’re out here getting A’s in in engineering classes so I’m like what’s what’s going on with these brothers and you know setting out opposite marches and that’s what I aspired it to
Be because so then I went to the military in the middle of my my undergrad years and then I came back and then I got saved or rededicated my life January 1st 2011 and then my my my priority shifted because so at this point I’m working night shift you know
Electrical engineer major I had a girlfriend sliced Beyonce about to get married and commissioned in the army so I was very interested but I’m like man that’s gonna be that’s gonna be rough because I’m working that right so I I gotta feed myself so but it was
Interesting so as a at ROTC in North Carolina a t there’s a I got I got to call the championship the Army Championship so I look on the wall and the first black comedy Army Chapel Center in school was on the wall of my a t ROTC building and he’s an Omega Man
So then I go to the engineering building and the first action black astronaut to go on space I believe was Ronald E McNair and he’s an Omega Man and then my professor military science so we we out there running ROTC and I hear somebody
Barking I said oh oh he’s a Mega Man too I said okay say no more so and then uh I went to Pittsburgh in 2013 and uh Bishop that I was sitting on there a Mega Man so I’m over here like okay oh so I was being formed by the Excellence of you
Know black clergy black Champions matter of fact the first black chap uh chief of chaplains in the United States Army is in the Mega Man Matthew Zimmerman right so it’s something about our founder uh Bishop Edgar animus love is an army Chapman right so it’s something about
Chaplains in in clergy so I was like okay so then um so then like I said when I went to Seminary you know in Houston my wife was like uh you gonna finish school first before you I’ll let you you know join this organization because she knew that when
I once I got into the organization I was going to get active and get involved and we also had a a two-year-old baby and she was pregnant so she was like nah brother but um as soon as I got to uh Fort Polk Louisiana I found out there
Was a mega sci-fi chapter I would have gamma gamma before I even got there I’m already reaching out like hey I’m interested in your organization and uh little made it happen in 2019 and I became a member of making sci-fi so that’s that’s a little bit of my my
Journey to becoming a Mega Man wow I love is this so interesting how it’s you know sometimes like I you look at people like celebrities or you know scientists or Educators or whomever and you wouldn’t even think that they were part of you know different organizations or
Anything then you’re like oh snap okay okay um so it’s always very fascinating it sounds like for both of you you know the organization’s really connected with your values and where you saw yourselves going in your future um and so it wasn’t just you know I like
The colors I like you know the representation that they have on campus like it was there’s personal connections for both of you so I really love love that um can you talk to me a little bit or just kind of explain to folks who don’t know
Um sort of if um th I think you brought it up early like if you’re interested in an organization so um do you prefer Jonathan or John by the way uh Jonathan or Dukes whatever I’m in the Army so you call me Dukes is fine okay so um if you were listening
Um dupes mentioned grad chapter and also undergrad chapter so can you all just explain the difference between the two of those yeah so um to answer your first question about how to approach your organization um I do want to dispel the myth most of us are attracted to the organization for
Superficial reasons first so if you are still there it’s okay it’s totally okay um so you approach an organization kind of um you almost want to be a Smooth Operator mainly because all of us when we have a healthy relationship relationship amongst ourselves we talk about
Um a myriad of things and sometimes one of those things are people that are interested in if they fit the caliber of the organization right because we all do have standards whether um they seem stereotypical or not um academics and positionality of the community matters so as long as you are matriculating
Towards a bachelor’s degree I can’t remember if Iota Phi Theta switched their requirements because that was a touchy conversation when I was coming into Sigma gamma wrong um you have to have a certain GPA each organization is a little bit different but I think the going minimum is is a c
Which is a 2.5 GPA and then before you finish your degree if you decide to join an organization you are a member of the undergrad chapter should you have finished your bachelor’s degree the next option is a graduate chapter even if you aren’t going to graduate school
So that option is for any person that has a bachelor’s degree if you are working in your field you’re not going to get a master’s or a PhD you would still be a graduate member because you have finished under grad if that makes sense at that point you have the
Capability to kind of Mentor um be a professional kind of mentor to the undergraduate Center like 19 that because they know everything and haven’t experienced life yet yeah I love that um so so if y’all are um thinking about you know Dr Roger you said you can you can have the GPI yes
That is right in undergrad Dr Roger had below a 2.5 in college all right get over it all right okay thank you yeah that’s okay I I had a semester or two where mine dropped below and I was on social probation until I got mine up so it happened so
Social probation what can you explain that yes so um my specific chapter and in our organization we do have academic standards that you have to uphold after you become a member wearing letters is an additional bonus and a privilege all of us go to school to get a degree
Um so if you can’t academically perform you are kind of Bringing Down the image of the sorority because scholarship is a part of all of our pillars of success have to make sure that you’re performing well in class so social probation means you’re not going to a party yeah you’re
Not going to a step show and you are not hanging out in your letters you should be in the library quietly getting yourself back together because you Let Yourself Go so um my social probation lasted uh academic semester got that corrected and uh got back out
I love that see so I think it’s you know that I think are sometimes some um negative stereotypes out there about you know it’s all about parties and doing this and all the strolling and all this other stuff and it’s like no definitely focus on academics I see my
Best friend Nova is here yes she can attest to my undergrad days and we’re not gonna go there John mm-hmm so first you have to like you you have to know why you want to be a part of your organization and because uh you don’t want to get lost and you
Don’t want to lose yourself in trying to be something that you’re not and that makes sense so uh a Greek Lord that organization should be an extension of what you’ve already been called to be by God so you shouldn’t have to undermine who you are to be part of an
Organization that should be a organization of Excellence anyway so on the grad chapter side uh so undergrad The Stereotype is that you’re coming there to kind of be known Cloud a little bit of community service but mostly notoriety and yeah to be out right but on the on the
Grand chapter side it’s a little more emphasis on the business side than the server side more so than the undergrad right so if you’re seeking on the grad chapter side you should already be doing community service already like because one timing is everything so it would be
Awful for them to be having a line and then you like oh I wish I was doing community service and now you can’t even apply when because you didn’t so if you want to be a part of organization you should be doing community service now because best believe as soon as you
Become part of an organization you’re gonna be on a front line serve especially as a new uh new member I I hope so you should come and understand you’re going to be serving and you should want to that’s that’s why you should be one of the poor people part of
The organization anyway to help uplift the community and make the community better and to promote you know black scholarship with black education like that’s that’s what you should be doing second go to some events go so when they do on community service we should go don’t just go do parties because that
Gives off a perception but when they go they go do a mentorship event if they’re doing a community service they have a worship service then you should go and then and then you know go to different things so you can see kind of like what what it’ll be like
Um and then also you know start reaching out and being able to to have that conversation sir ma’am I’m interested in your organization and and just just come out with it because it it’ll actually looked worse if somebody says I knew you for five or six years and you joined my organization
And you need me to come talk to me it can kind of look like like why why didn’t you share that information with me because you never know who can help you in the long run anyway if that makes sense and then um make sure you’re financially
Make sure your finances are in order yeah yeah okay it’s a financial investment I’m just gonna just gonna be frank with you it’s a financial investment and you’re willing to put money into what you do is important so just know that it is it’s the same and then make sure
Um you’re willing to make some time commitments and sacrifice other things you know in the in the Jordan aspect if you were to join they’re going to be some time commitments so it’s it’s an it is some sacrifice and it is some some time to serve and to be a part of the
Park I mean amongst your sisters or brothers so just know that like when you’re you have to really humble yourself to want to be part of organization if that makes sense because you’re essentially asking what can you add as value to that organization I mean they could they
Could pick anybody but why should they pick you so you’re kind of saying hey here’s what here’s what value I can add and here’s why I would see myself as a valued member of this of this organization that makes sense yeah no that does make a lot of sense um and
That’s thank you all for breaking that down and explaining that I see Joan is watching Joseph is tuned in on YouTube John is on YouTube what’s going on Jonathan Rhode Island I see my girl Marissa is here from Facebook so I do see you all’s questions we are going to
Get to these questions so um dukes and uh Tasia can you all see the question on the screen there okay so we’ll start with that question first if y’all don’t mind answering that yeah uh what’s the question so it says um is grad chapter solely focused on community service and
Attending events that the organization has and then to follow-up questions to that are what are the other benefits and how will being a part of an organization help someone further down the road so I will let the Neo go for and then so I will follow up as the
Elder there you go I will give difference so um it’s not so the organization is not only about community service but like that’s a major a part of it um so most most of us in our organizations were created to combat women’s suffrage civil rights Jim Crow like there have always
Been action-driven organizations so to come in and not want to serve is kind of counterproductive so it’s that’s that’s what that we we do almost all of us do some kind of internship with the middle or high schoolers to promote black scholarship and get these young people involved in activities that help them
Get the college and things of that nature so we’re we’re always trying to and then most of us are professional helping professionals anyway so that’s just an extension of what we already already do and then um attending organ attended events uh yes you’ll definitely attend events there’s going to be meetings uh chapter
Meetings district meetings National meetings um and then you’ll do some national panhandling Council meetings where you’re collaborating with other um denied organizations in your in your city or county to attract to do a collaborative effort to help impact their community in a positive way and then what are the other benefits so for
Me personally um being a black officer in the army is a is a place where it helps to have people who are culturally aligned with and then when you add uh being in the fraternity it makes it even better so like I said because I’m moving every two
Years and that means that I gotta kind of fit in everywhere I go so me being a member of Omega sci-fi like even when I go to Georgia in two in two months I already have brothers there who say hey here’s where you should live
Um if you if you know you need me to help pick your wife up from the airport we’ll take care of her hey here’s my son your son can play with my son hey um you know do you need Church to go to I mean it’s it’s a Brotherhood that’s
Why I said if you want to be a Mega Man you got to be a friend first because we should all be guilty of being a good friend so that’s definitely benefits I mean and then I mean besides that so we talked about undergrad and grad chapters
So if you’re an attorney is sorority and you know so my sister here she’s in the education field so if you’re a undergrad you say hey hey I need a job right and she’s an education field well now you have somebody who can help help you
Navigate which way to go so you get mentorship professional development uh camaraderie and and you have somebody to ask tough questions before those tough problems even arrive because you’re you have that Bond but you can ask those those challenging questions and how being a part of that organization I mean honestly
Um since I’ve been grown I realized that the cool part about being in college was you always had people to hang out with and then you get grown you have kids you and then you realize that you don’t really have as many friends as you think
You you had so being a part of a my organization I actually have people who are closely aligned with it I actually get to hang out with and spend time with as a as a black American uh young adult because I mean it gets kind of lonely after you graduate because you
Actually have to go find and see people and then you don’t always have time but being a part of the organization even when you travel I still go on vacation you can reach out to your Civil Wars or your fraternal Brothers even even overseas I mean I I have frat brothers
In Japan Germany Korea you name it and it’s just it’s a blessing fill in some of the spaces that we can expound upon a little bit so miss Marissa the straight answer to your question the first part is grad chapter solely focused on community service and attending events that the organization
Has the answer is we are focused on multiple things at once um as uh right right um the community service at the grad level is almost imperative because at that point because you’ve gone through undergrad and because you are now a part of the workforce by definition you’re a
Citizen of your regular community so because you’re a member of your community there should be issues going on within your community that you see as a problem and you are trying to position yourselves as a problem solver by being a member of any organization that naturally puts a demand for you to
Go to events you want to host events if like um here in Michigan every summer we have an issue around kids drowning in Lake Michigan we I think it’s still a going thing that black people don’t know how to swim so for example Sigma gamma rho has a swim initiative a swim
Initiative to deal with that specific issue so that naturally puts a demand to go to that type of specific event right um so naturally it organically becomes you go to events but there’s much more than we do outside of just um formal events we still need to bond like just
Because we share letters doesn’t mean that we’re best friends sometimes we’re just uh co-laborers in the work that we agreed to do together um so we need to hang out and as this mentioned sometimes you need to have your kids around other kids that share the same values
I will say as my favorite benefit is going to new city a new state and looking across the room and thinking that I’m alone and I find out that someone else in the group is there um at the University that I’m working at now there is less than
10 domestic people of color on faculty and staff and when I saw another black male at work he’s significantly older so I immediately respected him as an elder because he had the gray hair and he walked like a mature Uncle uh if you will but as we go
We got my SG Road bracelet and he goes I’m a Phi Beta Sigma and it made sense to me that someone like him would be at a campus like I am because we are one of the few So principally speaking our values align in because there’s not that
Many of us we have a history that helps us be a little bit more bold to go in spaces that most people aren’t there that man is easily 30 plus years my senior but felt that same sense of relief and camaraderie when he saw another person with these letters on so
Um further down the road as you get older and as you’ve lived through more things you have the ability to go back and reach back I think um do tell me remember which philosopher talked about The Talented tent uh WWE The Boy Yes believe it or not he’s a member of uh
And I think Booker T Washington is an Omega Man right can’t remember get back to you on that one yeah okay both of them are in fraternal organizations but I say that to say when we started talking about The Talented 10th the principal was a tenth of the black people in America would
Rise to the top and it would be their responsibility to go back to the community and continue lifting the rest as we all climb so my definition sometimes we take on that position I have access to different information and resources now I want to bring that back
Home to my community where I live and I’m a regular citizen at so that’s kind of like the long-term ways that it can help further down the road but having a network in a net becomes your net worth to immediately inherit friends that are doctors that are lawyers that um serve
In the military that teach that you immediately get people in all different areas and now they’re in your phone when you have access to them go ahead um so this we’re talking about the Divine and divine nine right so I’m gonna bring to the ministry side right
So honestly as a as a black man there’s a lot of challenges for black men to confide in one another right um for fear of being judged for the information to be weaponized or just our insecurities trauma so honestly um being in in this and being my
Organization gives me a platform for men to really be transparent and tell me what’s really going on with them um and because men particularly I’m just speaking I’m a man so I’m just going to speak oh man like I said there’s a lot of fragility and a lot of insecurities
That lead to suffering in silence so being being in a fraternity like when I say friendship matters like if you you know if my fraternal brother caught me to talk like one hey I really need to talk that’s really serious and we take friendship really seriously so it
Creates a lot of ministry opportunities for me being in my organization I love that you mentioned that um I see Renee is watching from Philadelphia hi that’s my big sis hi Renee and then uh Joseph we do see your question so we’re actually going to go to that question next
Um so Joseph on YouTube has a question if you all can see it on the screen there I’m gonna go to you all um but I love uh Dukes that you mentioned about it’s a great opportunity for Ministry um because you know we have to understand that not everyone in these
Organizations has a relationship with God and so you all are sort of the light um and the ones that can connect people to Jesus A lot of times that maybe maybe they’ll never step foot into church but you know they’re a part of the same organization as you they’re going to
Different events and they’re working alongside with you and you are able to be a witness for Christ I really do appreciate that you brought that that you brought that up um Joseph thank you so much for asking this question and for watching on YouTube while you’re just
Tuning in this is dig deep conversations with Christian leaders I’m your host Dr Dre see aljo tonight starts my three week series finding the divine line in the divine nine the question on the floor is as mature Believers how do you now view the rituals Oaths and hazing required for admission and
I’m gonna let you all answer that to whatever extent you feel comfortable so Dukes why don’t we start with you all right so I would break so I would I kind of want to dissect that question because things he said aren’t necessarily always required so that’s I
Just want to put that out there um especially especially Hazen because yes clearly yeah all right so uh for my for my worldview the organizations have four four P’s right so you have the purpose you have the principles the process to become a member and then you have practices right so the
We have a the per the purpose you know obviously was you know out for Alpha they were they they were the the minority they needed to organize and they saw that you know the european-american counterparts got to organize and become you know a bond on campus so they wanted that so a lot
Of our organizations started out of of black you know young um talented people needing a space to to grow to build bonds and to help change the world buy that togetherness right so that’s the those that’s the purpose and then we have the principles so like like my sister said our Cardinal principal
Manhood scholarship perseverance and uplift and so the the principles are are solid so then you have the the process right so the process and the practices I would love to say are uniform cross chapters but it might not necessarily be the case right um just kind of like there’s
You know our organizations were found my organizations found over 111 years ago and anything you give to people over 100 years there’s going to be some some people want to do it this way some people do it that way right so um I wish I could say everybody does the
Same practices and and process right but it’s incumbent upon me as a Christian to uphold what what Christ tells me to do and make sure that when if I’m over a process that my process follows what Christ has been do and if I’m over um a chapter that that chapter exudes
The right practices right um so that that that’s that’s why I get so that’s why I say it’s coming for you to know who you are as a Believer and if something doesn’t align with your convictions then that’s not for you so but then I mean even with churches right
Churches have uh a purpose and we have principles and there are some practices we love but there’s some practices that some people look although you’ll go too far right but you you have to know what church you can grow in if that’s the church for you right so I’m not
Suggesting that black Greek organization is the same as the church but I’m saying any organization you’re going to be a part of you have to check is what they should be about what I’m what they’re exuded and if they’re not is it a challenge with this chapter or person or
Is it is it a problem with the organization is that does that make sense so yeah that makes a lot of sense um you know it’s similar to um something that I shared at a conference that I was speaking at um last week where I said you know we were
Talking about diversity equity and inclusion and the conversation was about you know addressing different diversity issues um and Having the courage to do so and I said you know at some point when you are addressing things with people you have to understand is it this person person or is it the institution
Um you know is it a problem or a concern of just this one person or is this a reflection of a larger problem and so I think you’re absolutely right where you know there might be some things that are done um in any organization business you know
Social work whatever it might be Church there might be some things that you don’t necessarily agree with and if you feel convicted as you said um then that’s reflect on and kind of sort of shift away from um if if that is the case um Deasia let’s go to you for this
Question here so sorry I dropped my phone y’all I am klutzy and sometimes put together in y’all um Joseph thank you for your question um I think this has been a high button topic every initiation season um I think last was the last one so normally in the spring I see it
Happen a lot like January when all the January babies are celebrating their Founders Day like everybody wants to denounce and then again in the fall when everybody’s having like intake and uh lines uh introduce themselves yeah I’m throwing away my letters and I’m burning them because so
This question kind of starts to dabble into some of those issues um so I want to say first that Sigma gamma rho sorority Incorporated is a non-hazing non-fledging organization so if hear anyone talk about stories or anything of that nature connected to hazing or pledging ask what year they came into the
Organization and find out when the organization outlawed that okay um financially and insurance wise we do not support or endorse any of that kind of thing so that answers the last part of your question as far as getting into the organization as you call the animation
As a mature believer how do I view the rituals in the oath um personally I am revisiting what I think it means to say yes and notice something um my word for the year is agreement and I’m really trying to be cautious about what I come into Covenant with and what
Type of Demands I then put on myself as a result um I went to check through my phone and it’s funny that y’all heard a phone dropped it’s just timing-wise um I saw a young lady her name is Jackie Hill Perry and I’m specifically citing her because she had a really great
Conversation about Beyonce but she went through and she started dabbling and talking about some of the other things that we subconsciously come into agreement with and by us being in the space we endorse sin confusion and all of it her conversation indeed made me think twice about my affiliation with Sigma
Gamero am I in a space where I am considering throwing away my letters or thinking that I made a horrible decision no I am not but I am revisiting what does it mean to come into the Covenant with something whether I knew what it meant initially or not
That’s where I’m at as a mature believer where I’m revisiting what is the yes meaning what does that know mean first initiated into the organization or I joined Sigma Gamma Road um a lot of my clothes were blue a lot of my clothes were gold
Um at one point I had blue highlights in my hair y’all um my schedule uh it changed because I added something but I never let Sigma drive my life it was just an addition to it so for people that were used to having access to me um and they had now even even
Um more limited access to me they felt that Sigma took me away from them it felt like it had became my God or that I was worshiping or that I was just so absorbed in Sigma but it’s almost like what happens when you start dating somebody share space and your time division looks
Very different in my heart Sigma never took priority over the things that were already prioritized what I’ve seen other people do with the rituals and the oats they take that and they make those priorities or make that mental connection much bigger than it ought to be so that’s where it becomes
Kind of problematic for each person I will say the people that decide to denounce um their positionality on things is always a little tricky for me thank you and even the people that decide to stay and say negative things about the organization is again tricky for me
Because I believe out the part of the conversation for why they felt comfortable saying yes in the first place before they decide to leave it’s a lot of negative but we kind of leave out the positive so I think we missed the opportunity for a full well-rounded conversation around that so I hope
Joseph I answered your question as best as possible I um love that you brought out you know if your organization does not drive you it’s an addition and and I really appreciate you saying that and I do think just like with Christianity it is an individual walk and it’s what it
That’s what I’m hearing from you all’s uh comments is that you know your conviction is going to be individual um how you engage and interact with the organization where you place it where you prioritize it is individual um and so I really do appreciate um also your transparency there um and
Sharing that you know you are in a space now where you are sort of re-questioning and reflecting and not necessarily your membership so to speak but um so I think that that is truly um truly powerful yes go ahead Dukes so I’m I’m I rest I try to stay away
From from saying what or what not to do but I I always ask questions right so biblically right um where we say that Naomi and Ruth were and they make a covenant right did Naomi not say the ruth hey wherever you go I shall go right yeah Jonathan and David
Um now make a covenant to to be friends and be loyal to each other um when Jonathan obviously could have pursued the kingdom because his daddy was you know was the king so he gave up his his you know rights to the beginning for God’s covenant with with David right and then
Um let’s look at Jesus I mean Jesus told 12. he chose 12 men to fellowship with and to you know share his mission to the world through those twelve and eight and eight and they they served the community they you know they did Ministry together
And he broke bread with them and he said as you love each other that’s how I want the world to know about me by how you love one another and then also if you start to think about it uh he said um there’s no greater luck than this than
One who will lay down their life with their friends right so so it’s there’s a there’s even some some biblical aspects of friendship and and and and why you are connected more so than just being connected so that that’s something that what people are considering gotta explore why are you connected why are
You choosing to become friends are you walking together are you walking around some people and then what is your purpose so my if you and so someone says hey um not everything about this organization is is right if that was the case am I not a light in a dark place
Right don’t I bring the holy spirit with me right uh so so can’t can I can I be the proponent of change because last time I checked you know God used us as ambassadors you say come back to god so let’s say there was a young person who
Was misguided what better than a person in the same organization to say hey how you doing spiritually right so if we’re not in the organization so then there’s a whole you know over 2 million you know loss you know people in organization right now without us influencing them
And a lot of organizations were found about Christian leaders too so that’s another thing that to to consider I love that that extra the little Razzle Dazzle piece there’s like you just you know cut everything you just don’t sprinkle a little bit on top I love it I absolutely love it
Um I do see some uh some additional comments here um so that is the end result the question is the rituals and it was before so I think um Tasia touched upon that and said you know it’s an individual um thing you know the Oaths and the
Rituals and prioritizing and you know as a Believer um knowing where your convictions lie and and knowing where your relationship with God is and and what you are prioritizing and I think that’s true with anything I could prioritize work I could prioritize my own Ministry over my relationship with God
Um my relationships over God so I think it it does become an individual thing um like I was a man called by God to to be his you know his light and sitting on top of it I mean out to be a minister before I’m I’m a minister so
Even if somebody is not denying I’m not going to be like hey I can’t pray for you I can’t minister to you I can’t you know I I got friends in the fraternity out of paternity I’m an army chaplain so I minister to people who believe like me
I ministered to Muslims uh Mormons uh Jewish folks so and some so that’s what I was saying it’s just because you see somebody who may make their organization an idol that doesn’t make the organization promote idolatry it’s it’s two different two different things so I’m I’m hopefully I’m a genius follower
With through his grace and his Spirit to anybody whether you’re in a denial organization or not okay so uh novocaine I love this question and I think perception is what’s going to drive the answer so I would say on the premise of how you frame the question the natural answer is yes
And it alienates you because you’re not in the organization so you can go to the meetings with me you can’t wear the same outfit as me you can’t get in the line you can’t step with me so like you’re you’re on the outside so by definition
If you feel that that creates a distance in alienation then yes is that anyone’s intention no what happens is exactly like Duke’s explained when you join an organization when you get married whenever you create a new relationship there’s always an inside joke there’s always something special about it and I think what
Happens is when people are familiar with you in one way and they aren’t able to maintain that familiarity anymore there is that distance that begins to feel like alienation so when you um I think that’s what creates that friction sometimes for some people um and then again family and friends why
Can’t well Sunday nights you always have something to do yeah I do why is that a problem right so now we really have to go so the issue isn’t the organization it actually is the perception of what you think the organization means to that person and the access that you have to the
Relationship um I in my heart never felt like my family lost me but because I shifted my priorities and I added something to my plate something else did take a loss so I had to humbly accept that yeah my family did miss me because they might
Have wanted me to be at family dinner Sunday night but I had a chapter meeting so I had to kind of massage the fact that the time spent wasn’t the same anymore but the inverse was true too my family needed to accept that I made it I made a
Choice to add something else to my life which further separated me as an individual to go out and serve now the call to serve is still Broad and anyone can join whether it’s through an organization or independent but that still drives us to have different agendas and sometimes different is just
Uncomfortable and it naturally just alienates us from one another sometimes and you know Justine said in the comments it’s just like when we get saved um you know if you come from a family that’s not saved and or friends group or friends I know when I first got saved my
Girlfriends and I were out Faithfully Wednesday through Sunday after clubs everything and I said you know hey y’all so I don’t party any I didn’t say I would say I don’t party anymore you know that’s long I’m no party no more um and and it did feel for me it felt
Like I was alienating them but I knew in my heart I was prioritizing my relationship with God I knew that I could not um you know go to the club and and hang out with my friends and you know having them drink around me at that stage even
Now you know I don’t feel comfortable that was my conviction and I felt like I couldn’t be an effective witness for Christ if I’m out clubbing with them and then yeah but y’all come with me to church on Sunday morning that’s me that’s my conviction if that’s not where
You’re at that’s okay but that was me and my conviction and so I feel like sometimes for me it did feel like I was alienating them and that I was ignoring them and and again that that transition was challenging um so I can only imagine that challenge of a transition for
Someone that’s active in their organization and also active in their Church community and also active in their professional life and also active in their personal life as well as I think um I think that’s a great a great Challenge and a great um opportunity to continue again this
Sort of keeps ringing here this theme about prioritizing you know how do you prioritize different things how do you make sure that people you know that you’re doing the best that you can um and and making sure that people are understanding of that and if they aren’t
Kind of figuring out how to navigate from there so we’ve got a couple minutes left can y’all believe that we only got to like one of the questions that I sent them ahead of time I told it I told you I told you it’s gonna be it’s so good
Though it’s so good okay I’m trying to think I’m trying to think um let’s go with is it okay let me ask my guest let me ask you all was there any questions that you were just like oh can’t wait to talk about this when we
Get on the show I think we’ve kind of touched upon a lot of different things from some of the other questions um but was there any particular questions um that you all were really just yeah Dr Alger don’t ask this question I’m a messenger after and you know tell her
About herself any ones that you in particular wanted to answer um I’m looking at our question list right now um I’ll I’ll talk a little bit since we’re digging deep on the face side yes no one in my church really understood what it meant to um join a sorority or fraternity
Especially Sigma gamma row um so I kind of got a chance to be a light in a space where people weren’t familiar with blue and gold together they’ve seen variations but they weren’t very familiar hey my summers are here shout out to the Grand Rapids grad chapter um
So it was a little different um having my church family just not be super familiar with my organization but they did know of the community positionality in bringing the good things that way so my church was very supportive of me um being active um my Bishop politely gave me a two
Finger tap to make sure that I understood the principles of the organization and was I truly okay and I think I appreciated that the most because that kind of gave me the Comfort the comfortability to start challenging and asking some of those tough questions um so I’ll leave everyone with sharing like
Make sure you’re in a community or around people that will make you be thoughtful about your decisions um because from that it helps you block them or grow in a better way I love that um I think it is important to anything that you do
Um is to know who’s going to be in your corner and not just always yes yes go go go do do do but really help you question um in a good way the decisions that you are getting ready to make and and I think too I’m certain you felt this as
Well knowing that if things didn’t turn out the way that you know you would have wanted them to go or if you decided to change your mind or whatever that those people would have been there to support you still they wouldn’t have been like well we told you not to do but whatever
Because maybe um so I do like that you talked about that community and that support that you received um from your ministry Dukes I’m curious to hear about you because you are poor years into this now and I think you had mentioned that you had already rededicated your life to God
Um as well before sort of going ahead on to grad chapter um or to pledge grad chapter so can you share a little bit about um sort of what Christians in your inner Circle how that conversation went did you have people that supported you were completely against you let’s talk a
Little bit about that well I have one friend from college who we thought uh like organization moved to gang and I was like come on bro like come on man and and it’s the the things that people would think about Christians without doing their research is is I don’t say similar but
It’s a lot of like commonality between just people make these generalities with not even talking to you or knowing about your organization or what it stand for or why they reformed I just wish people would do a little homework a lot of organizations were formed these were
Young black men and women dedicated to making the world better by United because they were facing discrimination uh women suffering civil rights Jim Crow I mean uh trying to get black officers trained before they went to World War One like if you don’t understand the historicity of it and then you see one
Person doing something that you don’t agree with then you just want to throw the whole organization away so for me all I can do is be the man God has called me to be and continue so my the things that I would be doing I would be
Doing if I wasn’t a Mega Man but I love doing them because I’m a Mega Man and then when the young man sees me I’m already marketing for him an opportunity to go to college to live on the Shane as a believer in Jesus and to say hey other
Black men we can come together and we don’t have to fight each other that’s what fraternity is about is I’m building bonds with other black men and we’re gonna help make the world better by by serving and and taking care of women like my my daughter one time uh she was
Like yeah Mommy Daddy’s telling the truth he’s an Omega Man like even my daughter holds me to a standard that I’m a man of accidents right so I don’t I don’t ever want that to change so I just like I said I just want the the church
And those who have some some some challenges to just talk to somebody in the organization ask do some homework and say and then we’re very quick to throw things away without asking are things redeemable right so even if something did fall short of Christ standard is it
Redeemable or is it just just bagging and so I just just wrestle with those different things and like as we talked about um are there people who aren’t meeting the standard or is the organization I mean standard so that’s some things that people have to wrestle with but for me
Man I I love being a Mega Man I I love seeing other uh deny people I don’t care what the organization I would say what’s up greed you know what’s up you know 1922 you know even though November was I you know I found a day
First you know we we’re gonna give them a little room you know but but even how we can joke like that it it just makes uh also it makes it being black fine I’m not even a lot like like when when Atomic Dog come on and I’m out with my
Brothers and we we setting out you know a hot boy March it just brings us to Georgia Embrace being black Embrace being uh community influencers and and hopefully God is glorified by how I’m able to to minister and to help uplift that that young that young black man who
Said I wasn’t going to college but because we do a mentor mentorship event he like okay well if I want to be a Mega Man now I’m gonna go to college and so it’s just just changes and changing the game so um yeah that’s
We just we get we can’t be so black and white on everything it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s not it’s complex it really it really is it’s according to your own convictions honestly yeah according to your own convictions um you know we we have hit the one hour
Mark so we really don’t have time to talk about um the mentoring that your organizations do I know a friend of mine is an sgro and her daughters her young daughters just um I don’t know what is it a rosebud or is she a rower uh maybe the rosebuds I mean they’re
Like they’re like yeah she’s a rose bud yeah yeah yeah yeah and so just for me just seeing that was just like oh my gosh like that’s so amazing and great that you know there’s a way for her to now connect with her daughters along with connecting with the organization
And oh it’s Allison hey hey that’s my SG girlfriend hi Allison I would connect with her daughters and get them connected to again Community um and I think you know that’s that’s one of the pieces that I think a lot of people misunderstand about or these organizations is that it really truly is
Connecting the black community um in in scholarship in leadership and just giving back from promoting one another um doing a lot of great things um in in the community so it it’s fantastic we didn’t get to touch on it we’ll have to touch on it next Wednesday
Um before we head on I have to thank you all so much again for sharing your experiences thank you for sharing with us um I know I did see one question from Renee I don’t know if she is still on we did talk about uh the requirements for
Uh grad chapter she asked if they were the same as undergrad so I don’t know if it was specific to like GPA requirements but I know that we did talk about grad requirements um earlier on in the show so Renee I don’t know if you were here during the
That portion of the conversation but yes go ahead Dukes so for our organization if there was an undergrad chapter at your school while you were in school you you have to wait four years it’s just so you know okay yeah okay it’s tough yeah um each organization is unique in their
Timeline between when you can join so please either find a member of that chapter that you’re interested in take them to coffee and add some basic information you don’t necessarily have to reveal that you’re interested in their particular organization at that point it’s kind of data collection like dating
Um not Dukes now no it’s okay yeah okay okay I’m like what’s happening what’s going on but when you’re a grand person once you’ve graduated from undergrad your GPA it doesn’t hold the same weight as when you were an undergrad um so most of the grad chapters that you
You’re interested in they’re going to need a copy of your transcript to verify that you’ve graduated um but again talking to um someone from that grad chapter they can give you the specifics even down to the cost that is associated with getting into the chapter um and they can talk you through the
Logistics because each of us have National meetings and at our national meetings sometimes our intake policies are updated so what you don’t want to have happen is you talk to someone like five years ago they told you something things have changed and you missed out
On all those changes so like I said even if something as simple as going to get ice cream a coffee spend some genuine time and get to know what that intake process is going to look like so you know where you fit and everything it’s easy expectation management so if you talk to
Great person they might have like two semesters when they got to be able to you know become do Interstate Grand Champion it varies so expectation management is a big deal that’s why it’s essential like uh said to you make sure you talk to somebody um currently to get the most updated
Information because it’s a situation you might go somewhere they might not have a chapter for a year or they might be having it you know the next you know the next season so it varies awesome thank you both so much is there anything that you’d like to leave with
Our guests or what you would want our guests to walk away uh with having this just such a great conversation thank you to everyone that tuned in um anything that you all want to share when the folks to take away from tonight I’m going to start with uh TI Asia and
Then Dukes I’m actually going to ask if you will pray us out uh once you are done and then um I will after Duke’s praise I’m gonna give a couple quick announcements we’ll talk about our guest coming up next week and then that’ll be the end of our actually let me do that
You know what let me do that first we’re going to pray yeah we’re gonna flip it around we’re gonna reverse it here we go so here’s what we’re gonna do we’re gonna do the announcements now then T Asia final thoughts then Dukes final thoughts and then prayer amen all right
Here we go so coming up I saw in the comments that I should do a part two it is like y’all are like in my mind because part two is already planned it’s coming up next week Wednesday we’ve got here we go imma say the whole thing
We’ve got Zeta Phi Beta we’ve got five Beta Sigma and we’ve got Delta Sigma Theta coming next Wednesday at 8pm Eastern Standard Time to talk about finding the Divine in the divine nine we’re going to continue the conversation with some Christian leaders we’ve got pastors National assistant chair ladies
And National evangelists uh social workers talking about all of these great and wonderful things about being active in their Greek organizations so I am excited make sure that you tune in on next sequence Tuesday 8pm right here Eastern Standard Time right here if you are not connected with me make sure that
You connect with me on Facebook Instagram I am on Tick Tock uh not on Twitter I do have a conference coming up the first official conference the dig deep conference women of the word it starts Friday October 13th Saturday October 14th registration is now open this conference is perfect for any woman
Ages 13 to 65 that wants to intentionally seek a deeper relationship with God through his word and to fellowship with other like-minded women I have some Dynamic preachers coming in on Friday night uh and on Saturday night Saturday during the day we’re gonna have some workshops talking about studying
The word of God living the word of God and teaching the word of God then we’re going to do a women celebrating women brunch afterwards and then Saturday night we’re going to church and we’re gonna go home um if you’re looking for hotel accommodations contact me let me know I
Do have a whole tell set up so if you are interested in coming to that please make sure that you connect with me if you’re interested in sponsoring a young woman to come or if you have a business and you want to be a conference sponsor connect with me as well
Um that’s all that I have to Asia we’re going to go to you for final thoughts and then Dukes you’re gonna give us final thoughts and prayers home please yes so just so we are clear everyone tonight has heard loud and clear that Sigma gamma Rose were already
Incorporated is the best sorority out there that’s what I hear but I’m not kidding okay um no uh the one thing that I do want to leave you all with is that uh our organizations were designed to be servants to the community not to be uh Soul snatchers okay please advise that
Anytime we’re talking about culture the root word is cult um so there’s always going to be some type of cult element when you find a culture or a group of people doing the same thing so um be cautious about positionality in your opinion when you start doing the research
Um all of us have questions comments and concerns find someone you trust to start unpacking that stuff because doing it by yourself without real context can lead you down to bunny trail of nothingness and it doesn’t lead us to fruitful advancement because the at the end of
The day we want a space where our kids our nieces and nephews and our elders and even us have a safe space to grow and flourish so that’s what our organizations are about at the end of the day and can you if you wouldn’t mind either dropping in the comments or
Putting it in the private chat and we can post it any way that you want folks to stay connected with you y’all heard at the top of the show um Teenage has got a lot of great stuff so I want you to make sure that you connect with her Allison y’all you know
Y’all sorority sisters y’all should definitely connect okay um Dukes we are on to you what would you like the people to walk away from tonight uh speak into to the people of God um my prayer is that we would consider Grace so a lot of things that people judge
Um Greek letter organizations off of they have to remember that they’re thinking about 18 19 20 year old maybe 22 year old men and women and are we being harsher on 18 to 22 year old Greek letter orientation college students than we are 18 22 year old Christians right
So every so the same way 18 A young adult Christians need discipleship you know D9 folks any young impression an impressionable person needs mentorship so I just asked an invite the church folks to consider getting to know somebody praying for them and ask God if I was to see somebody in the three-letter
Organization they were doing something that I didn’t necessarily align with have I considered reaching out to them loving on them getting to know them and recruit and perhaps creating a bridge to see uh the gospel flow through that relationship um there’s so just I I I would hate to
See that your uh challenges with their membership hinder you from being the per the witness that God called you to be so that’s that’s my that’s my prayer um and if all hearts and minds are clear all right uh well God we thank you for this this awesome and uh fruitful conversation
And we uh we thank you for the the selflessness of the of the of the leader in creating a space for us to talk about black Greek letter organizations in the Divine mind and God we just I just asked that for every uh member and then divide
Nine who is a follower of Jesus that we will continue to live unashamed as your Witnesses and as your children and that we will continue to spread the good news and we would continue to live and love like Jesus as members of our organizations and God wherever in our
Organization there is is doubt God uh bring Faith wherever there’s lack God give us more than enough so we can be blessing to those who are in need wherever there’s friction bring peace and wherever there’s ungodliness God I pray that you would even save uh members
Of all organizations even as we speak on today and that they would really dedicate their lives or surrender to Jesus just based off of this conversation so God we pray that you get the glory um from this conversation please continue to protect us and keep our morals and our and our interests pure
And and please uh bless the the next conversation next was there as well that would be that would be glorifying to you and and bless us and keep us and as we go through our respective places in Christ’s name I pray amen amen Dukes I certainly want to extend the offer to
You as well if you want to type in a private chat or in the comments how people can connect with you thank you all again so much for tuning in thank you for listening uh make sure but who are typing hashtag replay um listen to the podcast whatever the
Case may be so happy to connect with you I’ve got my stuff up there I’m gonna throw tiasia’s stuff up there one more time as well so please make sure that you connect with her and then once we get Duke’s stuff up uh we’re gonna throw
His stuff up in there as well Nessie okay so that makes sense Dukes because I was trying to find you to tag you on Instagram and I couldn’t find you and I was like well I’ll have to ask him when I see him tonight so there you go
So it all works out thank y’all so much for tuning in have a great rest of your evening here we go we’re gonna put it up right now if you want to stay connected there you go perfect find them on Instagram and I think we got one more
The email comment hang on one one second let’s get that up there and there we go perfect so you can connect with my guests continue the conversation if you’re interested in either of these organizations I’m sure that they’ll be happy to answer questions or point you in the right
Direction thank y’all so much make sure that you tune in on next Wednesday at 8pm Eastern Standard Time right here on Facebook live with Dr Drea see all Joe dig deep conversations with Christian leaders until then I hope you have a great rest of your week and I will see
You on next Wednesday foreign
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