Again we are excited to see you and I’m excited to get started and introduce our panelists so we’re gonna have Alicia from the pursuing the Esquire seemed to go ahead and do the introduction Thank You Danielle good evening everyone thank you for joining us tonight for our d9
Sisters in the law panel we’ll be discussing how to utilize your denied membership in the legal field but before we begin please do not forget to follow us on instagram at pursuing esq i’m and join us next Wednesday for a fraternity panel so I’m gonna turn it over to our
Founder Nathaniel to introduce the panelists hi everyone again my name is Daniel Hardy I am the founder of pursuing the Esquire and a proud member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated I am extremely excited to host you all tonight on our sisters-in-law panel and I’m gonna go ahead and get started with our
Introductions so first representing Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated and we have our first attorney Kelly Muse Kirkland Kelly Muse is the chief of the hate crimes Bureau at the Kings County District Attorney’s Office in Brooklyn New York Kelly studied political science at Morgan State University in Baltimore Maryland where she received her
Bachelors of Arts degree in 1999 upon graduating from college Kelly worked at the state of Maryland Department of Juvenile Justice as a probation officer where she supervises youth who were placed on probation by the courts or sentenced to placement facilities such as detention centers in group homes in
The fall of 2000 Kelly entered the City University School of Law where she appeared in the Queen’s County Criminal Court to defend clients accused of misdemeanors and violations of the New York Penal Code penal law after graduating from Law School in May 2003 Kelly joined the Nassau County
Attorney’s Office at the deputy county attorney where she prosecuted juvenile offenders in her position kelly litigated over 60 cases as well as violations of probation dispositional and preliminary hearings in her first year kelly received the rookie of the your award for her outstanding performance and dedication to serving
The county of Nassau Kelly also represented the office as a member of the Nassau County gang task force in 2006 Kelly changed her focus from juveniles to adults when she began working as an assistant district attorney at the Kings County District Attorney’s Office Kelly was a science at
Criminal Court before being assigned to indict cases in the grand jury Bureau Kelly was then assigned to the gray zone tribal Bureau as a senior trial attorney where she has prosecuted violent crimes in Borough Park Bushwick bedside Williamsburg and Greenpoint a 2011 Kelley transferred to the office of the
Special narcotics prosecutor where she prosecuted individuals charged with felony level drug offenses throughout the five boroughs of New York City in 2013 Kelly returned to the Kings County District Attorney’s office gang bureau where she prosecuted gang members for violent offenses in April of 2015 Kelly was promoted to the Civil Rights
Bureau and Hate Crimes Unit where she investigated and prosecuted crimes committed by the members of law enforcement against civilians as well as hate crimes in December of 2018 Kelley was promoted to the chief of the newly formed hate crimes Bureau which investigates and prosecutes crimes motivated by victims race religion
Religious practice ethnicity national origin gender sexual orientation age or disability welcome Kelly next we will introduce representing Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated Lauren Burk Lauren is an intellectual property attorney who currently serves as trademark counsel for authentic brands Group LLC a brand development and licensing company prior to this role
Lauren was a trademark examining attorney at the United States Patent and Trademark Office she also gained experience in intellectual property law as an associate at K&L Gates LLP and a boutique intellectual property firm Lauren graduated from the University of Virginia with the be in psychology and earned her JD at
Howard University School of Law most recently she received an LLM degree in law and government at American University where she specialized in intellectual property and information policy welcome Lauren Thank You Danielle next up representing Zeta Phi Beta Sorority Incorporated is my add a Maya is an associate attorney at Bruns Brennan and
Barry PC where she drafts Talent and above the line personnel agreements for production companies such as Braun Studios Jax media and a24 Maya has served as counsel for various television series and films most recently black lady sketch show Hamilton live Tiger King Harriet and deesis and mero maya holds a BA from the
George Washington University and a JD from Howard University School of Law during her time at Howard law she served as a student attorney and the intellectual property clinic with a concentration in trademark law and served as the program coordinator for the Howard law sports and entertainment law student association she also
Interned at B et the FCC and the DC Commission on the arts and humanities Maya is a proud spring 12 initiative of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority Incorporated and is currently a member of the Omicron 5 theta chapter located in Washington DC welcome Maya hi everyone and lastly representing Sigma Gamma Rho
Sorority incorporated is Erin Darden Erin is a native of Philadelphia Pennsylvania for undergrad she attended Shippensburg University where she made one of the best decisions and she became a member of the last creative but best design Sigma Gamma Rho sorority incorporated and obtained a Bachelor of Science and
Political science with a minor in criminal justice after undergrad she worked as a paralegal for a few years before she went on to attend North Carolina Central University School of Law she was the president of the sports and entertainment society senior editor of the North Carolina Central Law Review and has six
Internship positions while graduating God Aaron began her legal career as an honors attorney with the US Department of Justice tax division as a federal trial attorney she represented the United States and the IRS in the federal district court in bankruptcy court while handling all aspects of her cases after four years
Aaron recently joined the parlor tour law group a cloud-based law firm that provides top legal services to clients in a smarter way Aaron is committed to turning passions into thriving businesses and focuses her practice on assisting entrepreneurs with small business formation and development trademark law and civil litigation Aaron
Is a small business owner herself she is a certified law coach life coach and through a series of one-on-one calls and workshops she helps women raise their self awareness to develop healthy relationships makes themselves a priority and get what they want out of both business and life welcome Aaron hi
Everybody thanks for having me now we’re gonna get started and we’re gonna talk to our panelists with some really great conversation for tonight that we hope that would be very helpful to you as viewers and our most of our viewers as you know if you’ve been tuning in our
Law students or those aspiring to be up come a law student and so we’re excited to have you as well as everyone who’s here to support their sororities we have fraternity members on the line it’s great to see d-9 support across the board so I’m gonna ask the whole panel
This question and if we could start with Kelly to just let everyone know why did you go to law school so I went to law school first of all always the one to be an attorney probably since I was eight years old somehow another my mother jammed that
Into my head and so it became so but along the way you know in my journey to becoming an attorney I was able to you know intern various places including the Manhattan district attorney’s office so I I’ll say why it is that I became a prosecutor more so why I became an
Attorney I always knew I wanted to be an attorney always and the gift of gab someone who wanted to be in a courtroom and you know litigate cases and things of that nature but why I wanted to be a prosecutor specifically it’s because I recognize that the prosecutor has the
Ability to effectuate change in the courtroom the prosecutor has the ability to say yes or no and investigate charges and investigate individuals and either do the right thing or do the wrong thing and I’ve always realized that well I realized very early on in my law school
Career that it was the prosecutor who had the power to you know look at a case and determine with not there was probable cause from the beginning look at a case determine whether or not you know the witnesses seemed credible whether or not the witnesses and the police officers versions of what
Happened lined up and you even have the ability at that point as a prosecutor to determine what charges should be should be made and what you recommend to the judge in terms of sentencing whether it’s incarceration or some type of alternative to incarceration and so for
Me it was all about you know being in public service I went to the City University of New York School of Law which is a public interest law school and they’re you know they they drilled in us you know serving the public and things of that nature so I knew that the
Best way for me to serve the public with my skills in terms of you know someone who wanted to be a litigator being in the courtroom being able to write as well that my talents would best serve the District Attorney’s Office and so I’ve been doing that ever since I never
Intended to be at the office or be a prosecutor for as long as I have been but it’s been quite rewarding to do this type of work and I actually can’t see myself doing very much of anything else would you say it’s important to be passionate about what you do it’s very
Pettit I mean there’s a saying that says if you love what you do I work a day in your life right so it’s very important to you know know that on Sunday you know when you ever getting ready to lay your head on a pillow that you’re beginning a new week and that
Your your week is going to be fulfilled if you’re going to work every day y’all know people who work every day and they absolutely positively hate their jobs you hate your job then it’s gonna feel like work every hour is gonna feel like 12 hours CEO and it’s very
Important to know that what you’re doing matters for me it’s important to know that what I do matters I mean anybody could you don’t go out and make a lot of money but for me it was about you know enjoying what I do and having an impact on the community
And being able to look at myself every day and you know having a good time at work as well you know it’s good it’s important to be able to get along the colleagues is important to know that you know you’re bringing up someone behind you to make a difference in someone’s
Life so all of that is important in my in my life come on mind so being passionate I mean there’s not a conversation that I can have about what I do without passion so it’s absolutely paramount that’s fantastic I can tell that you’re very passionate about your
Job was fantastic Lauren can you share with us why you’re similar to Kelly I knew early on that I had an interest in the law and I also had a few influences also including my mother and although I know now that television doesn’t always accurately portray what the life of a
Lawyer is like there were several lawyer shows that I really enjoyed and I was intrigued by how the attorneys articulated themselves and formed arguments I went on to get my first legal job in high school and I worked at with a solo practitioner who really
Allowed me to be hands-on with a lot of the work and so with all of that I decided that I wanted to go ahead and also help people and go to law school can you share with us some of the shows that were inspirational for you specifically the practice it’s now has
Reruns on Hulu but that was the main one that I used to watch nice I’m sure most of our viewers are familiar with show such as Law & Order or how to get away with murder and it often we get the question of is it just like what we see
On TV and absolutely is nothing not at all Maya can we have you share next sure for me I would say that the law kind of has always been in my life my father is a retired now a police officer and so I was exposed to the law very early but
Knew I didn’t want to be a police officer so the people around me my mentors were all judges attorneys and those people were people that I looked up to so I figured that since I had an interest in arguments forming arguments and things like that law school would be
A great choice I decided that fairly early but I’m also hence why I went to entertainment a big television person so I owe a lot of my choices to John Carroll Clayton Claire Huxtable and Maxine Shaw and seeing great women on television and played attorneys and I
Really wanted to be honestly like most of them growing up with the family and all that great stuff so I don’t that to them – absolutely I am a huge living single span so vaccine shots hernia law was definitely some of it I would say as well absolutely
Thank you so much Maya if we could have Aaron please share so I don’t know if my story is as heartfelt as everybody else I get this question all the time I was a business major in undergrad and I woke up one day and said I’m gonna go to law school I
Don’t really know where the idea came from I just like popped into my head and the more I thought about it the more it sounds like a good idea and I thought that I could use this platform to give back and contribute to my community at
That time I did not know how I it would enable me to do that but that was kind of my thought random thought go to law school and then use that platform to help people I think that’s fantastic because I think as we’ve all discovered over these last few weeks of the panel
To everyone’s inspiration and time that they discovered that they wanted to go to law school was different or some you know they knew from a child some got into college had a really good professor or a teacher and was inspired to to attend law school or an event in their
Life led to them wanting to go so I think that’s really important for our viewers to hear you know that there’s not one particular way that you feel like you need to get on if you want to go to law school so our next question for the panel for the different areas in
Which you all practice did you always know that you wanted to practice in this area or did you have a different idea when you were at law school and can we start with Maya okay sure I believe that initially when I was interested in law I thought I
Wanted it to be a prosecutor and this was in high school in college I interned at the prosecutor’s office and I kind of was I knew that my heart wasn’t in it and I also felt emotionally it was draining on my mental and I couldn’t
Kind of take that every day so I my dad gave me one of the pieces of advice that I still kind of pulled to this day which is that the laws and everything so find what you love and then find the law in that so once I sat down and really
Thought about it I realized that television and film was what I really was passionate about so in college I met with the at that time VP of business and legal affairs at BT and she allowed me to intern in their business and legal affairs office in DC
And I went and my first day of my internship I literally cried walking home because I knew that that was exactly what I wanted to do so I was fortunate enough to figure that out while I was in undergrad so when I went to law school I tailored all of my
Interests and things like that organizations networking events to entertainment so that’s kind of hi stumbled across this that is such a similar path for me as well I got an internship with Viacom as undergrad and just knew that so I appreciate you sharing that it’s not a lot of people
Have that experience but I think it’s so important to intern I say that a lot but I took the students internships are so important not only just for the experience but the exposure to different areas of law you know that you might want to practice in and it’s like a nice
Test run so definitely in turn if you can up next we have Kelly please so you asked why the practice area yes right so I pretty much already answered that in the first question but I want to say still rings true that in order to you know make positive changes in your
Community and in the criminal justice system the best way to do so is I believe either by you know becoming a prosecutor or being a judge or even a defense attorney but as we all see and we have all seen with a Marberry the George Floyd case with even Amy Cooper
All the cases that are currently you know in you know your new art that are in the news that are in your Facebook feeds that everybody’s talking about those cases are all being motivated and driven by prosecutors it is a prosecutor who is has the ability to view evidence to determine whether an
The facts of a case fit an actual statute it is a prosecutor who determines whether or not a case should or should not go into a grand jury it is a prosecutor who determines you know whether or not the person should go you know well a judge will at the end
Ultimately decide but the prosecutor is the person who’s putting everything together to determine whether or not someone should not go to jail or whether or not somebody should receive some type of heavy sentence whether or not I should be coming to do service whether it’s not should be anger management or
Drug treatment when you see someone you know you might see a person who you know every day we see this you know I’m looking at a case that comes in and I see you know okay this person did you know whatever let’s say they did an assault and I’m they committed an
Assault and I’m saying okay what’s the record and then I you know we’re looking through you looking through the rap sheet to see what their record is and you saying oh a lot of petty theft there’s a lot of burglaries things of that nature so then you say maybe this
Person might have a drug problem maybe this person you know had a rough you know a rough life a rough start and has never been able to overcome that so then that’s when you start looking into their history and their background you say to yourself you know who maybe this person
You know could benefit from drug treatment maybe this person could benefit from probation supervision or something of that nature and how do you how do you who makes that determination you know what I mean it’s it’s the prosecution who really has people’s lives in their hands so I want to stress
You students who are considering you know going to law school that you know being a black prosecutor is not a way for someone to be you know clinical a sell-out it’s a way for you to help your community more so than than than anything at this time black prosecutors
I’m gonna say let me let me let me be clear conscientious black prosecutors are more needed more now than ever so for me that’s what it’s about it’s about making sure that justice is served on both ends that the victims in our cases are also
Her you know a lot of times our victims are people who look just like us in communities where we all live and we have to protect our communities as well from violence and things of that nature so I I would I would agree with I think you Daniel who said interning is very
Important I tell people the same thing if you don’t know what you do want to do you definitely should find out what it is that you don’t want to do so you can be like Maya and say hey I don’t want to do this because I’ll be unhappy and then
She figured that on figured that out early on just like I figured out early on that I wanted to be in the criminal arena I thought I was gonna be a criminal defense attorney when I was in undergrad but it was my first internship where I realized something there that I
Saw was it necessarily something that I would have done had I been in charged and so therefore I was like okay this lady here she just did what she just did but she had the power not to do that and so that’s when I realized that we’re
Needed our faces are needed in that courtroom and not just our faces our our experiences you know there are people who you know listening to facts of a case or listening to you know we listen to jail calls for example and then you might say that doesn’t make sense
Or you might know what they’re talking about because of you know the culture that some people might not actually understand so I think that it’s really important for us to just be there on the front line and that’s just the way to really make an impact absolutely absolutely and again just to reiterate
The power of internships you know you could get into an internship and you can totally change your mind about what you want to do or it could solidify you know what you think you want to do and you’re able to make some really great connections along the way Lauren if you
Could share with us sure and I think this is a really interesting question to follow your first one because it’s one thing to decide you want to go to law school and it’s a whole nother thing to decide what kind of law you want to practice so I
Went to law school I thought I want to be a sports attorney I’ve always played sports I love sports and I thought I wanted to be in that arena and then I started going to different sports attorney events and networking and I realized it just wasn’t the area
That I wanted to be in now luckily through that area I was exposed to intellectual property law which is what I eventually ended up practicing because it is what I felt passionate about individuals and businesses that have these creations and ideas and for them to have ownership of them and I also
Stress that even once you figure out what it is that you want to do it doesn’t always mean that when you get out into the real world that you may fall directly into that path it took me about six years out of law school before I had a job that was
Solely focused in trademark law that I absolutely loved so I did get there eventually but sometimes you do have to go through the motions in the working world as well to figure out exactly what specific Lane you want to be it and I think that’s a really important point
That you shared because oftentimes you know in law school we take the classes we do the internships we do the clinics and it’s in a particular area which we want to practice but law school doesn’t always tell you you know alternatives to start with if you’re not able to start
In the area in which you’re interested and I think you know for some were able to just start right into our career fields that we have been planning on and for others it takes a pit-stop I know for me I was a law clerk for six months prior to becoming in-house counsel and
Entertainment and so I just think that having an open mind to know that you’re getting good experience you’re able to have those transferrable skills but keep hustling until you’re able to get to you know the practice area in which you want to practice I think that’s really important
Aaron if you could share with us if you always wanted to practice in this area so where is Kelly in my head there life figured out since 1l year I did not so if you’re in law school I have no idea what you want to do don’t feel bad
Did I know I always wanted to practice in this area of law absolutely not I went to law school thinking that I would be criminal defense attorney right because I thought that this is how I was going to help the community I want to make sure people rights aren’t getting
Violated either criminal defense or I thought I would work in child welfare that’s what I did before law school I was a paralegal in orphans Court that’s what I’m doing I went to North Carolina Central it’s the public interest law school perfect I got there that went
That idea went out the window and then I kind of went back to my performing arts fees I was a dancer and actor growing up all my friends for the most part we’re in the entertainment field so okay let’s go with that I love I piece of entertainment great president of the
Sports entertainment Law Society I sent my son my 3l summer in LA making those connections I’m going to take the California Bar I’m going to move out there and I’m going to do this three a year I get a job offer from the government in the text division
Absolutely did not plan that you couldn’t have paid me enough for me to think I was going to be in the text vision but I will say that even though substantively I had no idea that I would be doing tax and bankruptcy it was a
Litigation job and so I did know that I wanted to be in a courtroom I’m so in that regard I would say yes I’m definitely not in the text area or bankruptcy and I didn’t think that it would be civil litigation I got thought I would be on a criminal side I mean
Even now I you know I tried it I didn’t necessarily like it and I think somebody mentioned about like it’s okay to change paths or it’s going to take you some time I didn’t like it and so after four years I decided that it’s time for me to
Do something else and so now I am going to be working with small businesses and some IP and so now I have the opportunity with this firm to pretty much do whatever I want so now I have the opportunity to test different areas to try different cases to see what I do
Like what I don’t like and kind of go from there so if we got and I think again just to reiterate that’s so important because a lot of questions that we get from our students you know is you know is it okay if I don’t know
What I want to do right now it’s absolutely fine and sometimes law school is that investigative you know tool that we can use through classes through clinics or it’s an internship or it’s just a conversation with an attorney that you meet so I’m hoping that you
Know at least someone on this call who’s listening you know can feel that they can identify with that and you know not feel bad if they don’t know it’s okay if you don’t know what you want to do or you could change their mind both things are absolutely fine so my next question
Is for Maya Maya you similar to me are in entertainment industry and a lot of our viewers a lot of our students are interested and finding out just how to make it in the industry how to start out and I know you’re at a law firm so if
You could share with the viewers any tips on how to break into the industry I would say my biggest piece of advice would be to network and often one of the biggest pieces of advice that I got early on was the difference between a mentor and a sponsor so I was blessed
With that definition quite early and identified a mentor one individual the lady who helped me get my first internship at BT and she turned into my sponsor who now advocates for me in various on different ways so if you don’t know the difference and mentor is somebody who advises you that can be
Personal or career and a sponsor is a person who kind of advocates for you when you’re not in the room and can help elevate you to different positions a mentor can do the same as well so sometimes they cross paths for me I joined organizations that were geared toward sports and entertainment
Specifically Abby’s ‘la which is a black entertainment sports Lawyers Association I volunteered for their annual conference my 2l an 3l year in lost I volunteered for their mid-year as well and use that space to network with the board members who all have become like aunties and uncles for me so I feel like
Breaking into specifically entertainment has a lot to do with your network so do coffees with people this is a great opportunity to network and reach out to people on LinkedIn that you might never have access to because you’re not I’m there to stay and just reach out make
Those connections early on follow up in an industry that’s so fast-paced I know you it seems like people don’t respond and get back to you but if you keep prices keep emailing them and keep trying they will get back to you so really make sure that you’re networking
And my tip is that if you’re not reaching out to one person a week the nice out networking the once a week is a network so I’ll try to do that thank you so much for that Maya I got similar advice when I was trying
To start out as well I tell soon as all the time about the power of LinkedIn which is how I met some of you today I think LinkedIn is so helpful especially for students because you’re able to look up you know attorneys who are doing what you want to do and I
Found in my experience most times attorneys are happy to chat with students whether they’re in law school whether they’re in college because they know you know just how difficult it is to have that level of communication and that advice especially as minority trying to break into the profession so
This next question is for Kelly um with all this going on with all this going on right now and you know this country let alone the world but in our profession as it’s only 5% African American attorneys across the United States which is absurd considering all of who we represent
Kelly you’re in the criminal law field if you could share with the thing yeah I think you were oh okay if you could share a little bit with the audience any pressures or any I guess influence that you feel as you know an african-american prosecutor with
All that’s going on right now in our society any pressures that I feel yes now the minority prosecutor I’ll say that I’m I’m one of the lucky ones because I’m in a very progressive probably the most progressive District Attorney’s office in the country I work for the Brooklyn
District attorney who has already even before you know the George Floyd case had already enacted I’m a program called justice 2020 where incarceration has always been the very last result you know I mean like so violence extreme violence things of that nature we’re talking shootings homicides things of
That nature those cases are different so we’ve already had you know he’s already the first office in New York to say we’re not prosecuting individuals who you know arrested for marijuana cases we’ve you know he started a conviction review unit where you know over I think 25 cases have been reviewed and reversed
We have all types of programs for people who you know are who do have substance abuse problems and things of that nature so starting from there I’m already in a better position I think then a lot of people who are assisting District Attorney’s in other offices and other
States even in this state I’m also the head of the hate crimes Bureau so I also feel that my daily work is something that is extremely impactful in that you know a hate crime being committed against one person is not a crime against just one person it’s a
Crime against a community because you know it’s you know what you look like it’s what you love it’s the color of your skin it’s your religion it’s really you worship it’s you know your sexual orientation and things of that nature so these are things that are a very fabric
Of who personally goes to the heart of America of the city so with that I have to be very careful and conscientious about every decision that that I make as far as being a prosecutor in the day and age of um you know George Floyd I met are
Buried beyond uh Taylor it’s not new these are things that have been happening all along and as you said I’m a bio I was actually acting chief for almost two years of the Bureau who prosecuted police officers engaged in line of duty who commit acts of excessive force
You know stealing things nor search warrants you know beating people up during an arrest all types of things that were considered crimes and I think that we were able to successfully prosecute and indict more officers than any other office that I know of at that time but I think that there is no
Pressure if you believe that you have and you’ve always believed that you have a responsibility to always do the right thing as prosecutors a prosecutor’s job is to seek justice no matter what that justice looks like that means that if the justice looks like okay this case
Needs to be dismissed before it even walks in the door we’re not even entertaining this case we want to decline it prosecuted if this case should be prosecuted this person deserves 25 to life because they just shot and killed the child then that’s what justice looks like because you’re
Always hoping that you’re doing the right thing and because I’m a supervisor that’s also my goal and teaching the people who work for me you know I always tell them you know pretend you’re the defense attorney you know what I mean and you know what would you say about
This person you know who are they as a human being what about this case what are the the mitigating factors what are the factors that you know you don’t see within the four corners of this of this file so I think that the pressures are you know you’re gonna get pressure from
Your family when you go home for Thanksgiving that’s always gonna be the case oh you’re prosecutable but you should be able to sleep at night if you know you’re doing the right thing if you know that you know you know you’re not prosecuting innocent people if you have
And there’s no and I always say this there’s never a rush hey there’s no brush because it’s you rather and I tell people all the time he rather do it slow and do it right then do it fast and do it wrong so investigation the ability to
Investigate cases is there for a reason you always want to make sure that you take the time to investigate cases because if I was funny because the other night I was just talking to my family and I was telling them I said we were talking about some case my brother-in-law’s
A first-grade detective and we were talking about you know we’re always talking about cases that we used to work on and things like that and I said at sentencing I always tear up I always cry it doesn’t matter if it’s even my sentence or someone else’s I can get
Siri I because it’s very and everybody’s like really and I’m like yeah because even if the person deserves to go away for as long as they’re going away for it’s still two families usually who are you know broke in and disrupted there’s children who won’t have their father in
Their lives every day these are things that the conscientious prosecutor thinks about all the time you know it’s not just about well he did this Bo let’s give him this the statute says you know he should get five to five to twenty five let’s give him whatever that’s not
What we do at least not in my office and unlike other offices we do have a lot of diversity I would say more so than probably other offices I’m a black bureau chief and there are a lot of not a lot but there are a good number of
Black bureau chiefs who are also my friends who also you know have the task of making very hard decisions every day and it’s tough it’s tough being a prosecutor because it’s not about money it’s not about whether or not somebody’s want to make money or somebody’s gonna
Lose money on his deal or whatever is people these are people’s lives they were talking about um so that’s the that’s the daily pressure that you have day in and day out regardless of what’s going on in the world but if you’re doing the right thing every single day
When you wake up you can go to head you can you can lay down knowing that you know everything’s gonna be okay that was fantastic I you know I think about prosecutors often you know in times like this especially black prosecutor it’s because it’s a lot of times and we see
These cases on the news we don’t see a lot of black prosecutors trying these cases and I think sometimes with just a visual as we all know as minority attorneys representation is important not seeing those minority prosecutors trying these big cases can sometimes lead to a level of helplessness and
Hopelessness within our community because we don’t see any ones fighting for us we don’t see us on the front line so I think it’s very important that we have really great representation across the board so the next question that I have is for the panel and this is
Probably my favorite question for for tonight in my experience even in early on as I am in my career I found that because there are not a lot of african-american attorneys in any you know field across the legal profession that often when I do come in contact
With them they are a member of a divine nine organization and once you identify that whether I know I’ve been identified I’ve not had on any pair of but I have on my pearls and I have this I have my necklace out of my my bracelet on they’re like are you okay
So I think it just is such a sense of support a sense of community once you find that in your space your industry your office and I wanted to find out from each of the panelists if you’ve had that moment in your career where you see another minority attorney and they’re
Part of a denied organization did you have that experience and what was that experience like for you during that process and if we could start with Lauren sure so I have a very specific story I one point worked at as a trademark examining attorney at the USPTO as you
Stated it I interviewed there once and I was not given an offer and so what I decided to do was move from New York to DC in order to get my LLM and also to get more experience in intellectual property and trademark law and one of
The women that was at the office who had been networking with was a sore of mine and I kept in touch with her when I moved to DC I told her about my interest in wanting to get some more experience in intellectual property law and she connected me with another sore who had
Her own practice and so after starting my LLM program I was able to intern in that stores office until the next time that the USPTO was hiring and so when I got to the interview I was able to speak to that experience that I had gained and
I ultimately got the job offer that time so that was just a very specific instance how my connections were instant and I was able to get opportunities presented to me I think that’s fantastic I think that that is a great way to network within you know starting out in
Your career if you’re you know whether you’re active whether you’re not you know when you meet us or you know in your organization they’re gonna look out most of the time and they’re excited to see you in that space and I think that is a really great example of you know
Not only just networking but keeping in touch once you make those connections that’s very very important to growing your network and a step that is important to create a new long-lasting relationships I’m Erin if you could share next so my example was not trying since I’ve
Been practicing but in law school when I went to North Carolina I didn’t know anyone that had gone to Central I don’t even know if I knew anyone in the state of North Carolina and I think it was the last day of orientation 1l year and I
Got a text message from a sore back in Philly that I knew very well and it said there are two swords waiting at the door for you so then they both had going to central and so they became their resource for me um obviously they did
What I was trying to do they took me to dinner they made sure I was good they introduced me to you know other swords who became friends since I was so far from home I was able to spend Founders Day with them and just really became welcoming and their resources otherwise
It would have been just me I think that’s fantastic and I share a similar experience with you going to North Carolina and not knowing anyone and no looking for that community base and I remember with my team member alicia she and i would go and visit chapter
Meetings just to find you know that source of sisterhood and that’s so important especially when you’re starting off in a new area Amaya if you could share with us Sorry was that me you broke yeah oh yeah Maya no problem so for me I agree with aarón I feel that an Lauren I feel that my sorority sisters have been a huge connection for me whether it’s networking me or connected me with various other surahs but for me the
Strongest connection has definitely been through law school how we’re specifically each sorority and fraternity are really close and we look out for each other whether it’s books whether it’s meals on Founders Day and for me I don’t think I would have been able to go through law school without
Those girls and really all of the d9 sororities who all looked out for each other so that support system was very important then and those are the same girls I continue to reach out to now and really support me in all that I do thanks so much for that and we’ll wrap
Up quickly with Kelly if you could share with us any sorority connections that have impacted you and your career well there are a lot of members of Alpha Kappa Alpha who work with me and around me and so I will say that it’s always been it’s always been you know very
Pleasure pleasurable to have that connection recently I was able to interview our source sunny Hostin at a Black History Month event and the only reason why I was really you know given that opportunity is because the person who you know knew her and you know got
Her to come to the office to our program was was one of our sores so that was and I probably you know would not have been chosen to to that had I not been her her sore but I will say that more importantly than the opportunities that
Have come my way the sores have been very important in holding holding it is it has not been an easy journey for me I feel like you know you know you have to talk about microaggressions in the courtroom that are happening on a daily basis and they’re just people who
Don’t know don’t always understand that this is good to be able to get on a group me with sores with other you know with sores who you know who in my chapter now who are judges who I can just call and text and say Lewis and
This happened and I just need to vent it’s very very important to be able to have a circle of people you know you have your your sponsor you have your mentor but it’s also important to have people you know who you can just you don’t say I can’t believe just did this
Or he said this to me or he asked me was I the paralegal or he asked me was out of inter or whatever or he asked you know the the person who won you know who I’m supervising in court who one year out of law school whether or not he
Agrees with my decision you know things of that nature these are things that you need support just a deal with honor everyone every day basis because it gets hard it does it gets hard to you know although you love your job you love what you do you’re there
For a purpose it’s hard sometimes just you know being your skin and being a woman on top of it and have to deal with you know things that you should just not have to deal with you just should not have to be should not have to deal with
And you know that another colleague of yours would not have to deal with those issues so when I’m telling you that you know members of my sorority I’ve held me up to the point where you know I’m go back and forth all day with them you know about something that happens and
The thing is we all experience whether you’re an attorney whether you’re an engineer or in business or an entrepreneur we’re all dealing with the same microaggressions in the same attacks on a daily basis so it’s just important that we do they were able to support one another through it all I
Think that’s that’s I wouldn’t I don’t even know where I would be had it not been for the ability to just chat with people about the experiences that happened every single day absolutely and it’s so important to have that community you know as a minority in this profession you know as you stated
We go through a lot that our counterparts do not experience on a day-to-day you know whether that’s the microaggressions maybe that’s you know getting comments about our appearance or you know being double-checked by someone else those are things that our counterparts can identify with and it’s
Nice to have a support you know in the office or outside the office to where you can vent or you can seek advice on how to handle those things I know I personally have my dad I I actually had a judge when he told us to approach the
Bench and he’s you know having a conversation about ball for his grandson with the defense attorney who looked just like him and then we’re talking about you know discovery meaning we’re talking about what to hand over to the defense attorney and the judge just started screaming on me and said get
Back get back get back get back from my bench and I was just like stunned because I couldn’t believe that first of all he was screaming at me in front of everybody in courtroom and he’s just and I’m like I’m just standing there and
He’s like you are but I say get back and I’m like okay and so I turned around I went back to my bed my table defense attorney you know and he hooked it up for another but felt like a minute but it probably was just maybe five seconds
Or so when I went back to my table and as I’m walking back you know the judges have microphones at their desks or at their bench and he said um she that girl she’s a pain in my ass right and I said so I was stunned like I was stunned and
Like and I said so I actually said excuse me okay he said you heard what I said you heard exactly what I said I said did you just say that I was a pain in your ass and he said you heard what I said you can go back and tell anybody that that’s
What I said she there’s a defendant in the back of in the back row who’s like yeah he said it heard him and it was but this is the type of thing like where you’re just like stand strong you know who you are you know who you were raised to be
Don’t let him see you see you get upset and I literally walked out of the courtroom went to the office and I just broke down right cuz who has that type of thing happened to them I mean it’s a courtroom filled with people I’m a professional I have the
Same I passed the same bar exam that you I have a law degree just like you and you’re talking to me like this for for what reason it was really no reason and when I get back to the offices and I’m sharing what happened with my colleagues
Not the colleagues that look like me the response was what did you do to him I’m like are you kidding me so this is when you need your network of black women whether they’re akh they’re deltas there’s a toes there she rolls or they’re just you know black women in the
In the struggle you need we need each other because of things like that because who can then say I’m gonna get back up tomorrow but the next day and go back to work or go back into his courtroom knowing that you’re dealing with those types of you know that felt
Like more of a macro regression in a microaggression you know it was it was absolutely insane yeah those are the things that we’re all you know we’re dealing when I was an extreme case but I mean I’ll never forget it and let me tell you it wasn’t
That longer than wow thank you for sharing that Kelly I think this provides you know such a real experience you know description of what could happen you know in any environment yours was in the courtroom someone else’s could be in the boardroom and you know how do you do
With that but remain professional so that you’re not the angry black woman and you know in the room or in the office and you know it’s a struggle it is a struggle to have that but also be sensitive to yourself and you know acknowledging those those emotions at
This point I’m going to turn it over to Kirsten who has some audience questions for our panelists good evening everyone my name is Kirsten Edmonds I’m on the pursuing Esquire team and I’m also a proud member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated I would like to thank all the panelists for their time
Today and I also want to apologize in advance if we cannot get to all of the participant questions but I do thank you all for your attention and asking your questions so the first question that we have are is for any of the panelists whoever feels compelled to answer for
Those who are in their second year of law school and lost the opportunity to intern or attend networking events because of copán and my team how should we go about gaining experience or any advice trying to get the necessary experience during this pandemic I can speak to that a little bit
I would suggest even though you can’t go for in-person coffee or things like that or maybe your internship might have cancelled because of or this past summer because of Kovac I suggest reaching out to a lot of people on LinkedIn I know that I personally do at least two calls
With law students people interested in law a week and I’ve dedicated that kind of like during this time to make sure that I do that so you can always reach out to people that way or do zoom calls I know we do a lot of zooms now on the
Zoom Zoom calls with people and use kind of what we have at this time the best you can and people are quite understanding to that I would say on top of what Maya said if there’s any bar associations that allow law students to join any organization where you can get
Specialized information maybe about the particular area that you’re in or for example there’s the metropolitan black Bar Association if that’s just a more general that you would want to look into and you can also read up on certain parts of the law if you know what you’re
Interested in and you want to show that you have an interest in it you can read cases you can read hot topics you can present articles on those or share on your call you know if you’ve read about a recent case maybe ask a question about it um so
There’s there’s definitely a lot to do it this time even though it is it is difficult I was to say that one of the most important things that you’re going to need when you are applying to positions and you’re you said did you say rising three L’s or rising one else
Rising three L’s right I’m sorry not one else so what you’re gonna need is a writing sample and I would suggest that you contact attorneys that you know and ask them is there an issue that they have that you could write on because everybody has issues right and everybody has something that
They they could use some help with especially during a time of you know cold wit and you know people being sick things of that nature so they might let you have a stab at you know writing on an issue just so that you can have a writing sample because I I couldn’t
Imagine you know going into my third year of law school I’m applying for jobs in the fall without a without a decent writing sample so you should attempt to get one of those while you’re homeless you thank you so much that’s very helpful I know it’s a very challenging time right
Now and things have changed but it’s good to know that we still have resources that we can call on during this time the next question we have is for Aaron what advice would you give to someone who is not ranked high in their section is GPA and rank important once
You graduate and pass the bar so even though I graduated at the top of my class I went to a fourth tier law school I’m so it I won’t say it didn’t matter but there was definitely still a difference um and I’ll make this quick I
Can remember when I was in LA for the summer and we will be at networking events and there will be judges there and I would be talking to a judge but then somebody walks up and they went to Harvard just like them they went to Yale just like them and then literally I
Would be out of the conversation you know more eye contact no more conversation with me they’re completely talking to each other um so I what I had to do is I had to network I also knew that after my first week of law school that I didn’t want to stay in North
Carolina and so obviously most of the opportunities that the school is gonna have is going to be in North Carolina but I didn’t want that and so I was the networking Queen they talked about asking for coffee I probably would go into lunch two three times a week and
They pick the restaurants for you to go to um so I’d like I would have a dress email like and I would just change it I’m interested in learning more about what you do can you help me find people that does even with you even if you’re
Not sure if you think you may be interested in that reach out to them there is one quote that judge birdsong he’s out in LA I said that I will never forget and he said that it’s not about what you know it’s not about who you know it’s about who knows you because
You can feel like you know Beyonce but she doesn’t know you so it’s very important to make sure that you are finding these mentors in forming these relationships before you need a job I’m because the relationship needs to be genuine a lot of times at least the black legal community is very small
And a lot of times jobs don’t get posted and so if you know if something if a firm has a job opening that that’s not getting posted and you just have to know somebody that’s in there that’s when you need your sponsors to root for you when
You’re not even in the room where you’re not even thought of so it is definitely possible to do it if you’re not at the top of your class I personally I really don’t even like that hole or I graduated this but I can write write you a brief
Better than you like ten thousand times with my fourth tier law degree um we take the same bar we have the same license if I really think is really about your skills um if you feel like you are not going to be at the top of the class I would say
You need to work on your internships for many I think internships are more important than grades I know so many people get hung up oh I got to study I got to study I got to study but then you graduate even if you graduate to top of
Your class and you have no experience it’s still gonna be hard I think that the reason I was able to get to the government which is extremely hard to do is because I had what four clerkships with four appellate judges so I had the writing sample that Kelly was just
Talking about um so I had you know the import experience I enter at the DA’s offices and with a criminal defense attorney an entertainment lawyer and like three judges so I really stress the importance of experience maybe over grades I’m not saying don’t study you
Know do what you can but if you had to focus your energy or you know you’re not going to make that top ten top twenty percent I would say focus your energy on internships and another good way to do it Lauren was talking about our organizations I think most of our
Organizations allow you to join as a law student I know if you are in the DC area the Washington Bar Association we would love to have you we do stuff a law students all the time and nobody shows up and so we had a whole panel full the judges and I think three
Law students showed up and guess how many of them walked out of there with a summer job all three of them but there were only three there so definitely if you’re in the DC area you can find me on LinkedIn I will make sure that you are connected there are resources out there
For you I’m trying to think I know we’re over time I would say just get the experience and your mentors and just start now don’t wait till you need something thank you can I add to that if you do an internship you have to thrive in the internship you absolutely positively
Have to set yourself apart from the other interns I can’t even tell you the amount of interns that we have that come in and you know they think they got the job already or you know they’re you know not taking it seriously not taking that
You know we know that you’re gonna be a signing star of an employee if you you know you get this job there are at least amount of us I think we have like 60 interns a year and so they’re gonna be a lot of there’s gonna be a lot of
Competition because we have over 2,000 applications that we review for 60 slots every year so if you’re going to be an intern and the one thing that you do have is the leg up and that you don’t you don’t have to there’s four there’s four rounds of interviews the one thing
That you know the internship does is set you apart is that you don’t have to do the first round because you’ve already now interned for a whole summer but if your evaluation and the people that you work for are saying mm-hmm you’re gonna skip the first round of interviews but
Yes because you have an internship somewhere it doesn’t mean that you’re gonna get the job so I would say that you definitely have to set yourself apart while you’re there dress the part if you know that you want to be you know at an entertainment law firm and they’re
Dressing a certain way you know I’m not saying as a law student you will have money to dress like they do or you know dress like a you know whomever or whatever office that you’re working in but you need to be professional you need
To be on time you need to be willing to stay late and you need to be seen so that they know that you know this person really wants this job thank you so much that advice is very reassuring the last question that we have is very quick it’s
For Kelly but it’s an important question given this time in history so because of underfunding and various social economic factors in various public defenders offices how do black defendants who may not be able to afford private counsel how do they avoid getting ineffective counsel and other advisers I mean
Unfortunately that’s you know this is what we are dealing with in our justice system is that you know there are you know like for example in New York you have the you know I’m talking about what we have in Brooklyn we have the Brooklyn defender services we have legal aid the Legal Aid
Society we also have what’s called 18 B 18 B attorneys are attorneys who are in private practice but they do take cases at a certain rate from the city in order to take those cases so you do have the the you know the good I would say you
Know that I don’t want to say the good attorneys and the reason why I don’t want to say good attorneys is because you do not even realize the the level of fight that legal aid attorneys or the book and defender services they put into their clients they’re really fighting
For their clients from what I can see but I do understand that people feel like a public defender is not not as good as a you know a private paid attorney and unfortunately I don’t have the answer to that because that’s the way the justice system is at this time
And people you know with money do happen to come up with attorney you know some people wish they could afford but unfortunately that’s just the way the system is at this point it’s unfortunate but that goes back to prosecutors that’s why we need good prosecutors so therefore regardless of
Who your attorney is right justice can be served and what’s fair can what’s fair like you’re not gonna get like if I’m behind the table you know that you’re not I can tell you that you’re not gonna there’s not going to be false evidence it’s not going to be you know
You’re gonna have all the evidence that we have in front of you and it’s gonna be you know it’s gonna be a fair trial so that is and you know the very least and I can’t stress it enough I know I’ve said it 15 times during this tourism
Call if you’re interested in criminal law please consider becoming a prosecutor because that is where change happens thank you so much I really appreciate all your responses I apologize if we didn’t get to all the questions but we are over time and we want to respect everyone’s evening so
I’m going to turn it back over to Danielle thank you so much Kirsten and thank you again to everyone for viewing tonight our d9 sisters-in-law panel thank you to our panelists for your time your wisdom your advice we so enjoyed having you seeing you and your
Sororities colors as if you look at our viewers they are proudly wearing their para if you are a member feel free to drop in the chat you know who you’re repping tonight as we just support such sisterhood within our profession but just as professional women and as you
Can see all of our view all of our panelists have had moments in their careers where sisterhood is so important so we encourage you to build that sisterhood whether or not you’re in a sorority or not but just to build that community for yourself because you’ll
Need it in this career again thank you so much to our panelists please tune in next week we will have our d9 fraternity panel where we will have members from all the divine knife eternities come and share with us as well again thank you so much I know we went overtime today we
Just had so much knowledge and vice and I hope that everyone enjoyed it and has received something from tonight please share about a program we are serving aspiring minority lawyers through mentorship and access check us out on instagram at pursuing esq or our website at wwlp.com thank you again so
So much everyone have a good night tonight thank you
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