Hello thank you for joining me for another episode of the corporate Cowboys podcast my name is Alex your host as always today is Sunday family the Lord’s Day a little proof of life for you it’s April 2nd 2023 right and we find ourselves together here once again because you chose to
Continue listening you tapped in with us you selected this episode to listen to you’ve walked in to my office asking for a little bit of my time you want 30 minutes you got 30 minutes for free if you’re not familiar with the form of this podcast I treat it as a cathartic therapy
Session of sorts and it’s geared it’s it’s it’s yeah it’s geared towards professional development oriented towards attaining consummates professionalism that state of being a consummate professional right now if you want actual career Consulting professional Consulting corporate career strategy you need a little perspective from a corporate
Cowboy then you can reach out to us our rates are more than reasonable you can find us on Instagram that’s at corporate Cowboys with a Z on patreon where the corporate Cowboys podcasts and there are multiple tiers you can subscribe to to keep this podcast free and it also goes towards
Business expenses and legal fees right that being said I do have to give a disclaimer and this time I’m going to give it to you up front anything anything that we convey across this podcast should not be construed as legal advice we do not condone any wrongful activity we do not promote
Any wrongdoing sure we might address it we might touch on it in discussion but it’s not meant for you to uh take it upon yourself and and with the belief that what what we say is what you should do right A lot of these questions are hypotheticals we don’t have the
Hypothetical clients in front of us to be able to better inform our opinion we can’t ask follow-up questions we can’t interview them for real in-depth contextual information so what you hear and if it fits if the shoe fits [ __ ] you might be able to lace it up but that
Doesn’t mean it fits it could be loose fitting tight fitting if you need if we need added context typically we would go to the client for that and we would ask right so again you need help someone you know in your circle needs help strategizing their next move through corporate
Have them hit us up we’d love to help today’s question comes from our slash career guidance and they’ve flared it for advice so they’re actively seeking advice I mean this may or may not be a uh what’s it called an opinion piece because they’re actually asking for advice and I will do
My best the body on this one looks relatively long so I’m thinking I’m thinking that they’ve supplied adequate facts to be able to and form a somewhat decent opinion a somewhat decent uh yeah it’s a somewhat decent opinion I’m not going to use the word advice because
Nothing that we say here I’m not even going to play with the word legal advice because we’re not your representatives and until you’ve actually retained us I mean really doing a whole lot for you other than giving you a free time of day free gems just general knowledge for the
Most part general knowledge every now and then we might dig a Little Deeper give you a inside a look on how it is that we consult with our clients so the question asks why do companies hire and then fire me what are they just questioning the business cycle
If someone came into my office and asked me Alex why is it that when I go and apply for a job they hire me and then they fire me I would tell them it’s called churn it’s called turnover right they see you’re not a fit and uh
Typically a lot of companies will have What’s called the probationary period right so they’ll hire you but it’s more for like a trial a trial of like one to three months I’ve seen it be the standard rarely does it go beyond that like a six-month probationary period unless it’s something
Uh really technical something really grueling then I don’t see a probationary period extending out past three months now as to why they are hiring you and then firing you I mean it’s just past the probationary period did they just decide that you weren’t a good fit for
Them were you at any points told that they’re letting you go for a specific reason I mean in in the industry we call it for cause right and practice it’s called being terminated for cause and they may or may not have had adequate cause but in order to find
Whether or not you have a case for wrongful termination I mean we need to know facts right we need to dig into the details a little bit and get to know some about your background about your circumstances your situation before you parted ways with this company right
Now I’ll go ahead and start because this is a relatively long one and I may or may not get through it you know how how it goes I will pause every now and then give some commentary maybe make some uh inferences that I may be able to justify
Right because we don’t have every angle uh in front of us having the hypothetical clients here to ask follow-up questions would serve us a ton towards crafting uh detail and informed opinion but because we have to do without then the best we can do is to make a reasonable educated
Inferences as we like to call them in practice right they say or they start with I’m a student I’m a student in the past I got hired for two positions the first a bookkeeper for a law firm and the second a financial processing assistant okay so just off of that
Sentence off of that paragraph it sounds like our hypothetical client has a background in finance a background in accounting and bookkeeping so it sounds like they have some experience counting beings right if they know how to keep books then they’re probably um also well-versed in data entry and maybe
I would say have working knowledge of spreadsheets and accounting tables right continuing they say I got fired within a few weeks damn from both of them from both the bookkeeping and the financial processing both of them got fired within a few weeks okay well it’s not really saying much because
They’re not giving us context behind those decisions whether or not they were let in whether or not they were made privy to those decisions and what the reason was for being let go we don’t know but hopefully they give us added detail they say here both companies hired two
People for the same position my co-worker is always a lot older than me they will have a masters or plenty of certificates and tons of accounting experience and then there’s me with little to no accounting experience in the real world 21 years old and have an advanced diploma in accounting getting
My degree soon okay so they don’t really have have a degree and they say they’re getting Advanced or they have they have an advanced diploma in accounting I don’t know if they offer those in public education here in the United States and if they do more than likely it’s something Regional it’s
Something that only very few jurisdictions offer I myself have not heard of such a program of such a certification program that’ll give you an advanced diploma specifically for accounting I know a lot of public education here in the United States is geared toward general education it’s
Just meant to make you uh an entry level worker an entry-level employee and then from there based on what it is you want to specialize in based on what expertise it is you want then you should go and seek right that’s where folks make the decision to continue in higher education go to
College attend University and more more often now right because it’s 2023 more often now folks are sold on this dream of going to college of going to attend University without having an actual plan not knowing what specific technical knowledge it is that they seek why because counselors for the
Most part and academic advisors aren’t really there to help you get what you want right there they’re there to help you move through the process they’re there to help process you right so if you really think that these liberal arts institutions these liberal arts degrees are just being handed out like candy
More often than not and in this case I will say more often than not it’s not even what the student wants to know it’s not even what the student wants to learn very few of them are actually able to Market it after the fact after they graduate these degrees are necessarily unmarketable right
But because they get pressured because they get persuaded and convinced that the next step after high school is to go and get your uh AAA degree and a transfer degree go attend a four-year Institution I mean they get pressured into going to higher ed and taking on loans
And then they get saddled with this debt that they can’t come up out from under not even with bankruptcy right and we’ve we’ve addressed that issue before with Alex I say here they continue I just don’t get it was I not good enough was I that
Bad they knew I was a student with zero experience why did they hire me I did all the work it took me some time but I would always complete my work I wrote at least a hundred notes and then my employer for the bookkeeper job would tell me to quote take better notes
But she would talk so incredibly fast and watch me like a hawk damn I mean it may be because I mean they’re not even really in the labor force right they’re still a student so they’re not I mean they might be if they do if they are doing a good job
Of balancing their work and school schedule if they’re going to school part-time then they have the time to work a full-time job right I’ve seen folks do that for the most part students are going to be full-time for the most part which is why part-time programs tend to have less students in them
And those that are going to school part-time they tend to have a job outside at least a part-time if not a full-time job right they’re paying their way they have bills to pay they might have a family to feed I get it understandably but if you are going to school full time
How much attention how much time and energy can you take from your studies which I presume you ought to be interested in and look forward to getting the degree getting the certification from it how much time can you divest from your academic programming in order to work for somebody else right
That was a decision that I myself had to made as a full-time student sure I might do some side gigs right either on the payroll or off of it when I was in school but for the most part I made the conscious decision the conscious choice
Not to work while I went to school granted granted I was taking on loans added loans but that’s an investment in yourself if you know you can hustle if you know you can make moves and can Market the degree that you will graduate with then it’s not all that bad
But it’s unfortunate a lot of students go through school and graduate not having done any market research on their employment prospects on the prospects of even Landing a job to start paying off their [ __ ] loans so again they’re saddled with debt they’ve got a [ __ ] degree that they really can’t use
And so they’re stuck right but if you’re working full-time you may or may not have the bandwidth to keep a job which is why internships or externships or pretty popular in higher education and then typically a job offer comes at the end of it when you’re close to
Graduation that way you can start when you graduate and make money while you work but I mean you’re in school and you’re getting paid for a job the job is going to expect a certain degree of dedication that you may or may not be able to commit to if you’re going
To school full time so so faced with two decisions if you were hired on at the same time with another individual who’s who’s well well into developing themselves professionally well into Paving their career forward they have experience certificates and they have the knowledge they have the uh the time the commitment the dedication
Available to them to boot fam of course they’re going to go with the one who has the time with the one who’s who’s has the higher likelihood of making a career of this bookkeeping slash accounting position because that individual obviously is not you they’re done with their schooling they may have to attend
You know continued uh learning educational courses some CLE or CLA right but that’s further down the line it sounds like these older individuals more experienced individuals know what they’re doing anything if anything knowing and understanding recognizing the disadvantage and it is a disadvantage now right but that’s only because you don’t know
It’s only because you lack in certain areas be it knowledge be it experience be it availability this is an opportunity actually to network with that other older individual ask them what their pathway looks like whether or not it’s similar to yours you can compare and contrast and find
Whether there’s some opportunity to you for you to enhance and augment your decision making going into accounting and bookkeeping right otherwise you’re going to walk away from every one of these uh engagements every one of these uh employment uh yeah employment engagements I guess you’re going to walk away sour so they say
They continue about this boss actually she wouldn’t let me sit at my desk and do my work she’d make me sit at her desk and then she would just watch me do the work she would Breathe over my neck it was extremely uncomfortable and nerve-wracking okay
I feel so bummed out I’m not skipping over it I’ll come back and address it they continue I feel so bummed out and now I don’t feel good enough I’m honestly traumatized and I’m so scared that I’ll never find a decent job in my field I can’t even talk to anyone about
This because I feel so embarrassed I asked both employers what I had done wrong both said it wasn’t my fault and that they saw how hard working I was I would go home and study my office material as well they said that it’s because I’m a student and still learning
So why did you hire me okay it sounds like uh they have a little uh what’s this what’s the what’s the term called spite is it spite is it rancor I think the term is called it’s it’s like they regret even having applied right what they don’t realize now and it
May be because they’re new to the field they’re new to this accounting industry they’re new to the labor market to the labor force is that when you’re new when you’re new and you have little to no experience having been hired on with another candidate essentially it will be a competition
Again again this overarching theme of business being War and it’s a delicate balance it’s a dance of working with your colleagues and also competing with them the ultimate objective is to be able to work together to improve one another steal sharpening steel am I right that’s some corporate Cowboy [ __ ]
But if you don’t know how to navigate these social interactions these professional relationships you will have a hard time adjusting you will think it’s personal you will think they’re out to get you you’ll think they hate you you’ll think why the [ __ ] did they even
Hire me I’m new I’m a student did they not see I mean maybe this is self uh effacing or self-deprecation but you’re already putting yourself in a lower strata you’re thinking don’t they see I’m a newbie piece of [ __ ] why did they even hire me don’t think like that fam I would urge
You not to think like that you’re you’re diminishing the value you do have just because someone that you worked with obviously I mean maybe not even that obvious they’re just telling us they’re older they’re telling us to have these certificates and these degrees but there
Are a ton of older people who don’t know [ __ ] there are a ton of people who have degrees and don’t know [ __ ] [ __ ] right but you’re already putting yourself in that category you’re you’re self-selecting not to be hired on and or not to be kept on why
Because someone has a [ __ ] degree or some uh accreditation over you it’s ridiculous ridiculous now it’s apparent that they have good intentions they’re taking notes they’re doing the work they got the work done they’re completing it even if they had to do it in front of the manager right having the manager
Micromanage you I mean if the manager has nothing else to do nothing else going for them on the job well [ __ ] if they have you working at their desk and they are watching you work that’s added opportunity to be asking them questions not just about your job in particular but to open
Them up to soften them up massage information massage credit some type of favorability some type of favor from them they will see that you’re not only hard working but they’ll see that you’re interested you have a deep interest not only in the industry of accounting and bookkeeping
But in the organization for which you are doing this accounting and bookkeeping for and they’ll see it they’ll see not only the reliability but some loyalty and that goes a long way this other second client with all the certificates and degrees they might possess maybe they don’t give a [ __ ] about the
Business they’re just there to collect the check so you play your cards right and this other candidate plays their own hand it’ll be the managers and the supervisors and it really is the managers and supervisors who evaluate your performance who assess whether or not you are worthy of keeping on
Sometimes it’s not even it’s not even about what it is you know but whether or not they can depend on you whether or not they they see a sense of loyalty a sense of Duty from you for the company I mean you give me two people two individuals one with
Moderate technical knowledge maybe a little above average right I mean we’re talking competitive here so one a little above average they’re a newbie they don’t have much experience you give me another who who has a ton of experience a lot of background certification and degrees
You know who I’m going to keep on after a certain trial period a couple of months of probation one month or two months I’m Gonna Keep the one who I think is coachable who I think I can train who I think I can Orient who I think I can help develop
Into someone of substance and who I think will remain loyal throughout that who can take constructive criticism and feedback and internalize it integrate it incorporate it into their work into their professional development what you think I want some some [ __ ] nerd even if they had a identic or
Photographic memory if I can’t if I can’t teach them anything even if it’s how to socialize or how to close or how to initiate contact with somebody if they must be right always if they’re neurotic narcissistic about the need to be right the need to have power over people I’m not hiring that
[ __ ] male or female I could give two shits about how many A’s they got in school how many degrees they got under the belt what certifications they might have it might be something something specialized something that I might require for my business I’ll wait my turn
Or I definitely wouldn’t hire them on I might just contract with them make it a very something very limited engagement which might also be the reason why this older 40 year old or 50 year old candidate is applying to a new job on the same level as a [ __ ] newbie a
A a duckling fresh out the egg just hatched no experience what the [ __ ] is is a renowned reputable expert doing applying for the same job you are applying to you have to assess that you have to think that through what are they are they dropping the ball and fumbling the bag
In a situation like this I might recommend the hypothetical client not stick around but keep tabs I mean while you were there I do hope that you uh were able to start and develop and maintain some professional relationships folks that you could uh bring into your network and maybe take down their contact
Information their phone number their email or LinkedIn right and if you have to come back I have to keep tabs have to follow up with them in the future you don’t know maybe this other older candidate didn’t work out and again I I tell you it’s because the managers didn’t see loyalty coming
From them they saw someone showing up for the check and now you know how much those degrees and certifications were actually worth I’m not even done with the question here apologies I’m just went off on a tangent there but I’m telling you this is as cathartic for me as it is educational
For you I hope so let me let me finish this out I got a couple of minutes but I’ll wrap this up read it through give you one last uh bit of commentary they say I was thinking I was thinking they write of getting my degree in human resource
Management upon completing my Advanced diploma I thought you said you already had it whatever since I really enjoyed the courses I took for it the human resources courses maybe accounting isn’t for me I’m so distraught you shouldn’t be you’re new you’re a student what you think because you uh
Move over to human resources your accounting experience now is going to translate over no you’re going to start with zero experience in human resources and it’s back to square one how old are you uh do you leave an age don’t leave an age okay well you don’t leave an age
It is what it is um you get you have to understand if you’re entering if you’re entering the workforce you’re entering it as a newbie as a novice unless you have the experience and education and Technical knowledge and know-how to back up whatever it is the position you are
Applying for whatever it is you’re negotiating for compensation salary title whatnot they say after I’m so distraught they say cried as I wrote this all if you can’t tell who the [ __ ] cares Council counsel them right but as a hypothetical client I should let them know reality check you’re a student
You’re a student now until you actually begin your career and take steps towards establishing your career and I’m talking like a couple of years under your belt right will you actually be able to say your uh an accountant Financial processing assistant a financial processor right not just an
Assistant but actually somebody in the trenches doing this facilitating it foreign I cried as I wrote this all if you can’t tell and they have like a little a sad emoji oh that’s too bad at it oh they provide some edits I would also like to point out that my
Co-workers for the same position were both 30 through 40 years old keep in mind I’m 21. you’re a baby bro or fam you’re a baby what are you doing worried about this right I’m telling you these 30 or 40 year old cats if they haven’t established themselves by now then they might also
Be working on it but they could have an issue which makes them unretainable makes them hard to keep on the team right which again is a is prime opportunity Prime opportunity real estate for you to uh to sneak in to slide in and keep those individuals at these companies
Keep tabs on them keep contact with them because the manager who at one point was overseeing every little bit and piece of work that you were doing [ __ ] they told you you were hard working right and they just didn’t keep you on because the decision came down to experience and
Education and time in the field nice okay well if this other candidate 30 through 40 years old if that happens to fall through who do you think they might want to call next someone who was with them through this process someone who’s also been trained on policies and procedures in the office
Who they won’t have to uh rehire and re-on-board and reorient as if from step one right but these type of connections I have a number of them I have a number of them personally now obviously as I’ve progressed through my career I’ve Advanced and and moved upward socially right that upward social
Mobility everybody speaks so highly of I’ve moved upward in a sense so if I ever have to go back to one of these positions because I burned some heavy Bridges and had to take one or two steps back to rebuild myself up gratefully I’m not there right so
You won’t find me there I think anytime soon either I’m not I mean I’ve reached the place where I’m not going to say I’m untouchable but I’m also uh not hiding I’m I’m pretty open to I’m pretty inviting to have folks try and touch us but that’s some corporate Cowboy [ __ ]
For another episode Another edit here they write I also want to mention I wasn’t allowed to work at my own pace I was expected to do everything fast in my bookkeeping position if I hesitated at all she would tell me I’m not fast enough working fast eventually caused me
To become dizzy I would be organizing about 30 hands on checks and receipts all at once and she expected it to be done fast this resulted in my head spinning I couldn’t even sit down to drink water at times she even asked me at one point if I were
Able to pick up my Pace it was crazy because after a whole day of my head spinning at work I would go home and study more work it was so draining I had worked so fast well you live and you learn that’s that’s lived experience whether or not that’s uh an office pace
A Tempo that you look forward to work in I mean it’s going to differ from office to office and place to place right I did a work at one such uh for one such company where when I was being trained to move up into management I had one of the corporate managers
Actually come in to supervise me and they they would uh they would leave me right where in a position typically there were two individuals working the position they would leave me by myself just for the sake of evaluating whether or not I was manager material but leaving me by
Myself during some of the busiest periods right and they would just stand there at the threshold of the door of the doorway letting me know that I’m working too slow telling me to pick up the pace Alex can you work faster Alex pick up the pace
Alex don’t you see the the movement in the in the building in the business pick up the pace right long story short I got the promotion but it lets you know some of the Hoops that folks set up out there and again I was young I was also about 21. at that point
At that point in my life I was hungry so I couldn’t [ __ ] too much head spinning head spinning my [ __ ] ass I was working 10 12 hours at times but but I did it out of hunger because I was a hungry [ __ ] now it’s difficult it’s hard but if you have
The choice if you have the option to look for another place of employment to take the knowledge you have now and transfer it over to another office that’s more easier going I mean you’re in the workforce now right is that not what you wanted continue applying keep that resume polished
Always highlight the education and experience that you do have and align them with the professional objectives you currently keep you see what folks want to see is commitment dedication conviction to your work and you producing quality imma leave you right here have yourselves a great week I’ll catch you next time
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