Welcome back to another episode of the corporate Cowboys podcast today’s proof of life is Saturday December 3rd 2022. this episode should be rather short I got a little question coming from Reddit this is r slash career guidance if you need any help one-on-one professional a professional opinion a second look at
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Rancho Cordova California 95741 now this one’s coming from our slash career guidance and I think it’s a pretty straight up question I think it’s coming from a good place but um also coming from a novice and and I’ll explain what I mean too kind-hearted of a person this person is asking
Should I have given more notice that’s the title should I have given more notice and just right off rip I’m gonna say no no I mean know if you’re in a fire at will state I mean they’re sorry they’re known as a right to work states where you could
Just fire somebody or terminate your employment with somebody without cause without reason you could just show up one morning and tell your manager and yo this place [ __ ] sucks yeah and Just Bounce without notice that’s most places I would I would venture to guess most places around the
World if you aren’t tied down with a contract that has some type of clause of provision or a stipulation of some kind that says that you need Justified cause a a just reason a good reason substantial cause to leave the agreement then you could just dip out get that without notice even now
Two weeks has been held out to be um professional in a sense I mean if the organization that you’re with is competent in any way if they if they do have a human resources department or a hiring manager at the very least I think two weeks usually for most positions unless they’re really
A high-end really technical really specialized in which case I mean the hiring manager the hiring manager should be putting you in a contract in those instances and and if they’re dropping the ball at the start of your employment and more than likely going to be dropping the ball trying to replace you
On your way out so so let’s get on with this question real quick this person is asking that or is telling us here in the body of the of the prompt I just gave my notice and in parentheses they put four weeks to my current employer
I have been there for close to 10 years and it was pretty tough man I got questions already if I had them in front of me on a one-to-one on a on an actual consult and that’s what sucks about reading these questions on Reddit is that typically there isn’t a lot of context
Typically there aren’t a lot of uh there isn’t a lot of factual background that we can base what the experience has been like having worked at a place for a decade and uh the toughness that they’re claiming was presence whether it was in the culture whether it was just a tough place to
Work in because there were people that were difficult to get along with or if the work itself is highly Technical and highly specialized it’s just it’s something that crosses my mind here and obviously if I was walking this person through the consult I’d be asking these questions in order to better inform
My opinion uh they say so I’ve been there for close to 10 years and it was pretty tough they told me I should have given them more notice like several months notice yeah yeah if I didn’t know any better I would say they’re just yanking they’re just pulling your leg brother you’re
Yanking your chain man but you gave them four weeks notice which again maybe I’m reading too deep into this but four weeks notice is plenty is plenty is way more than just the standard then the then the the standard two weeks and two weeks that’s why I stuttered is
Not even standard two weeks is a [ __ ] courtesy two weeks is just being a professional not wanting to leave a place pulling a parachute really burning a bridge on the way out unless unless the offer that you’re leaving a place for is out of this world and fleeting like really will slip between
Your fingers if you don’t jump ship now like n-o-w now then I think two weeks notice is sufficient but this person already gave four weeks which is why I’m thinking four weeks I feel like the environment there the culture there you must have been higher up in a position of dependability of
Reliability maybe it was more highly technical highly specialized maybe you had those type of responsibilities where where the organization might have [ __ ] up by not keeping you one on contract some type of salary to position um I mean if you could just leave from one day to another and four weeks obviously
Is not one day to the other but it also doesn’t sound like they’re just kicking they’re just booting you out the door as soon as you gave them four weeks notice right they’re actually on their hands and knees bitching about you not having given them more time more more notice months but I
Mean months notice I don’t know we don’t know the the scale of the operation this person is working in what size of Corporation or entity that they’re in um it could be a small mom and pop and so they’re really reliant on this person and now this person leaving might leave them effectively
Defunct or non-operational and that sucks I mean it sucks it you know you hate to see it but at the same time you’re not beholden to anybody not even to people uh not even to these people in business who now want to uh impress on you this notion of
Of professionalism that is Way Beyond what they might have given you if they had to let you go right would they give you the notice like hey we have to wrap up the operation because for this professionalism [ __ ] goes both ways a corporate Cowboy knows consummate professionalism goes both
Ways what type of notice would they give you if they had to let you go like hey we have to roll this operation up so we’re letting you know with months in advance right we’re projected to close down operation because we are resizing we are innovating the corporate
Structure we are branching out we are diversifying so this Branch or this division will become obsolete or will be transferred will be restructured and retrained going forward into something else right what kind of courtesy would they have paid you you have to ask you have to ask now this person says I recognize
I recognize that it will take them several months to replace me but I could never have gotten a job offer with a start date that far out I’m not sure whether I did something wrong here thoughts now you’ve been working at this place for 10 years right give or take 10 years
We don’t know your age so I can’t just bag on you for being a novice for not knowing your place but 10 years in one place I’m going to assume you’re maybe in the west maybe in the U.S right this is just me speaking from experience the earliest
You could have gotten a position with this organization is what 14 15 with parental approval if you’re not I don’t know doing something crazy like emancipating yourself if you’re going to school and working at the same time I mean you could do that with parental approval with parental consent um
So you’re at least 24. but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt you started when you were 18. after you graduated high school I don’t want to I don’t want to say after college after college you’re already what 22 so it would be 32 now
But I would say maybe you started when you were 18 and it’s 10 years later now you’re 28 and you’re like this is my first job and you’re really sentimental about it because you’re not sure whether you did something wrong fam four weeks is more than enough four weeks is an
Entire month for them to hire somebody on and train them themselves now if they want you to train them now we’re talking about something different they want to bring somebody on to replace you that’s where you have to reassess and reevaluate your worth whether or not you
Should be sticking around to train this person or whether you should be upping your rate bumping up your contract we negotiating because you’re taking on additional responsibilities not just of your position but of effectively becoming a trainer for your position but that’s not what’s being asked here they’re asking how much notice they
Should have given in four weeks is more than enough I’m not gonna at this point I can’t even say two weeks because you already gave your notice you already gave notice don’t go back now and be like no I’m cutting it down to two because you know this other offer
Is waiting for you assuming this other offer you’ve accepted and you know it’s got more money or more benefits or more opportunity something that has attracted you to it this offer exists and you’ve accepted it now you’ve given your current employer for weeks to get their Affairs in order
I don’t see anything wrong here I don’t think you did anything wrong I don’t think that’s different from me knowing I don’t know if you did anything wrong either I’m not sure if you did something wrong maybe this person is tied down with the contract and uh a clause in the contract states
That they’ve got to give sufficient notice and sufficient notice might be months we don’t [ __ ] know that so I’m not gonna I’m not gonna speculate on it but if it’s just the regular Right to Work fire at will at will position right and I don’t know if you’re hourly or
Salary at this point we don’t have that context and those are questions that I would be asking you did nothing wrong I mean I I think this is going to be a short episode that you really did nothing wrong I could read some of the comments but I I could
Foresee and speculate on what the comments are going to say the comments might largely agree with my position my position is that four weeks are more than enough four weeks are very gracious on your part because you don’t need to give more than two you don’t need to give more than one
You could have left the same [ __ ] day if if it’s valid in your position right again we don’t know if you’re tied down with the contract we don’t know what the uh what the rule is wherever you’re located if they’ve got some type of jurisdictional authority that says otherwise right
So the first comment here says uh two weeks is considered professional you were more than professional don’t worry about it yeah absolutely that’s that’s pretty much it there is a reply to this comment and it’s pretty long so I’m you know I’m wondering what it is they’ve got to say this person
Says this essentially this period uh pretty much affirming what that first comment said that it’s more than professional and they’re saying since you’ve been there 10 years I imagine they would have given you as much notice as possible if they needed to fire you yeah
Um oh okay I don’t know if they’re being sarcastic or what but they say I’m sure they value you if they’ve kept you there that long and I’d be surprised if you didn’t have good relationships with them after all that time okay no so they’re being serious yeah 10 years 10 years is
A is a [ __ ] rip of time it’s a drip of time that’s a stint that’s a good chunk man that’s a good hunk that is a stretch 10 years to develop relationships professional and personal in a workplace that is a good strip of time and having said that in quotes as much time
As possible is unlikely to be several months would they wait for you to find a new job when they fire you no they wouldn’t because they have to look out for themselves they have to they do have to give notice they do have to get notice that they they write here they State
Here they do have to give notice but not that much personally I don’t even think they have to give notice if something that will if it’s at will employment they can just walk you into their office one day and be like yo Alex pack your [ __ ] you’re leaving
And I’m gone and I’m gone like what what kind of professional courtesy could I expect even at even after 10 years you could be the best of friends but I mean I’ve had a fire a friend before and we gave them no notice why because you got to look out for
Business in the end and they understood it was a business decision they saw the numbers they saw the writing on the wall and it doesn’t matter what history we had together cutting them off was the right choice now I won’t speak on what type of personal relationship we had you know before or
After and how it changed but if we’re but if we’re talking professionally professionally several several months noticed professionally how [ __ ] slow how [ __ ] [ __ ] are the processes and [ __ ] by [ __ ] I mean slow how slow are the processes at this organization that they would require several months to replace you right
Again unless we’re dealing with a highly technical highly specialized field I don’t see that happening I don’t see this company giving me several months notice as a professional courtesy so I could go and become somebody else’s employee right especially if we’re in an industry with competitors competition I don’t see that happening
And they say likewise likewise you should give notice but not at the expense of your new position two weeks is professional and the more time you can give the better for the company you’re leaving right it’s just better for the company that you’re leaving but two weeks that’s
Just a courtesy you don’t even have to give it but if you want to exit an organization two weeks I think is enough to get Affairs in order and not leave with Bridges burning you don’t leave with any friction there’s no real tension that’s notice and they could foresee you
Leaving and they have time to plan for it four weeks is more than enough four weeks is a friendly courtesy not even a professional courtesy a friendly courtesy that’s having leveraged 10 years worth of experience working together four weeks is friendly now they say here and all and they say
Here that two weeks is professional and now they’re all for being courteous they say in parentheses and I’m all for being courteous unless you’re trying to burn Bridges but four weeks should be more than enough for them even if you can’t be replaced in that time you should be able
To make some hand over documents for your replacement right yeah I mean if you’re leaving if you’re exiting I don’t know what the workload is looking like if you’re taking on new assignments but if they’ve if they require you to uh perform a little technical writing for
Your position I mean you could I mean you you could use that as some type of exit strategy also to have it be reduced work and all you’re doing is just writing two weeks notice and uh two weeks paid technical writing so that the per so that the incoming replacement
Knows where you left off and they can pick up where you left off but I mean four weeks come on and they say even if you cannot be replaced in that time you should be able to make some Handover documents for your replacement if you’re really that’s critical to the
Running of the company then they should be trying harder to keep you well I didn’t even speak on that because this person already accepted an offer and put in their notice right um I feel like if this person wanted to stay they would have brought up the offer to their management and
As a professional Cowboy I mean that’s that’s suggested it’s not advised none of this is legal advice but it’s suggested if you want to leverage an offer to get more money out of a position you’re in then do that the company if that should have been the company’s first move instead of bitching
About wanting four weeks of notice the company’s first move should have been to inquire to ask why are you leaving what is the company uh what can the company offer you in terms of development professional development personal development even right you’ve been there for 10 years you’ve got some kind of relationship going
Some type of working work life relationship going with them where they could offer something that they wouldn’t offer just workers in general they could offer you something as a person be it more money be it paid tuition be it a company car an expense account you’ve got 10
Years with them under your belt but but let’s take a step back Alex take a [ __ ] step back we don’t know what the operation actually is the size of it the scope of it the breadth of it right we don’t know if it’s a mom and pop shop
And this person has just been hanging on by a thread that’s maybe what they mean by it having been tough for 10 years maybe they’ve been hit maybe they’ve been working check to check every day every month every paycheck for 10 years and they want to dip out and this Mom
And Pop Shop is has been sinking or has been just getting barely getting by it’s just staying afloat treading water this person has decided to make a move and leave we don’t know what commitments and obligations they’ve had to piece up and and divvy out to be able to uh
Muster up the willpower to [ __ ] leave right we don’t we don’t know all of this these are questions that I would have asked as a professional that I would have asked as a corporate Cowboy to get inside of this person’s State of Mind to really evaluate their position in relation
To corporate in relation to the corporate world in relation to this corporation that they’re leaving but it’s obvious that the organization doesn’t want to keep them either the organization is the organization is is just feels uh scorned in a way where they’re they’re just crying about the amount of notice
They received so you know you’ve one has to ask themselves when asked to ask themselves if they really were that critical to the organization yeah the organization would have done more would have would have you know broke open the uh broke open the [ __ ] what’s it called
The the donation the tithing basket the donation basket would have broke open the [ __ ] War chest even and divert some of those funds if they have a war chest we don’t [ __ ] know but would have you know broke open the coffers gone to the coffers to keep you man or woman fam
Another comment here States um several months in the U.S would be extremely unusual yeah I agree even for an employee with a decade of tenure yeah I would agree that’s the type of notice you see for like executive directors in the non-profit space not in normal corporate jobs I mean
You could see that you could see that in corporate also that but again I said that’s contextual that’s dependent on the on the professional and personal relationships on the industry that you’re in how technical how specialized it’s all contextual and it’s factually dependent it’s really dependent on the
Circumstances that you are exiting that you are existing in doesn’t necessarily have to be not Profit just because nonprofit is more is typically seen as more close to the chest more um more close-knitted more casual doesn’t mean it’s still not professional [ __ ] can get fired from one day
To the next and not in non-profits all so they can be voted out from one meeting to the next and be not granted be what does it be denied access an executive director could could just not show up also could give notice of two weeks like any other
Person that all that’s all dependent on the professional and personal relationships a person keeps I mean it doesn’t have to do with the sector whether it’s the public or the private sector or the pro or the for-profit or non-profit sector nah nah I mean it you could see it in not in the
Non-profit space because executive directors are typically seen like um are are typically seen like leaders but that’s just a stereotype for the non-profit sector some of this I’m a non-profit uh some of the non-profit figureheads are not like some may not be all they’re cracked up
To be may not be all they’re painted up to be I mean a lot of it is just money being circulated for the sake of promotion right for the sake of good will I don’t mean that as as far as like the non-profit goes and they may not even be
A non-profit anymore but for the sake of a good name and a reputation doesn’t mean that they’re good it doesn’t mean that they’re going to leave months of notice before they leave not at all one more comment and then we’ll dip out man I think this was we’re pretty much
Beating a dead horse and we’re coming up on 30 minutes the last one says here you were generous in giving them four weeks to find a replacement yeah the the end the end right there we could just cut it here Sam if if y’all are interested
Um if if this is a question that’s come across your mind especially if you’re in the U.S Man four weeks is more than enough if you know anybody who’s been in a position like this maybe they have 10 years working with somebody working with some company and uh they’re really tied to it
Emotionally sentimentally they’ve got to recognize that that value does not translate into profits that value does not translate directly does not directly Translate into monetary value they’ve got to be professionals they’ve got to distance the personal from the professional and move like a corporate cowboy you can share this with friends and
Family with your Associates we’re more than happy to uh talk about it if you have any questions any comments feel free to drop them I’ll catch you next time have a nice weekend
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