Welcome back to another episode of the corporate Cowboys podcast my name is Alex and I’m your host today happens to be Thursday December 1st 2022. it’s a little Proof of Life for those who know if you know you know uh today’s episode might be a little short actually I mean we’ve got a
Question that’s coming from it’s coming to us from Reddit r slash career Guidance the question seems kind of straightforward but uh maybe we could just provide a professional opinion how a corporate Cowboy would approach such a situation the question asks or provide us with some detail stating
I have 50 days of PTO and potential job offers on the way can I work for two companies for a few weeks I mean right off the bat yeah unless unless you’ve signed some type of contract that’s a non-compete or some type of exclusivity uh some claws for exclusivity meaning
That you will be working for one company and one company only uh yeah you could like there’s folks who have two or three some even four part-times a full-time and a part-time there is a a point in time when I was working I think think two or three jobs myself
And this is when I lived in a really expensive parts on one of one of the coastal States I was young I was in a tight spot and needed to make the most for myself so I needed to make the most of my time
And in doing so I had to hold down one job full time and any extra time I had to push into another into another position it was tough it was a hard life but it made me the person I am today they ask or they leave the
Some additional contacts for us in the body of this question asking about whether they can work for two companies for a few weeks currently they have 50.5 so 50 and a half days of PTO 20 days are cashed out when my employment ends so in the deployment agreement
Apparently it reads that when they do leave uh HR authorizes 20 of those days of those standing days to be cashed out delivered to them in their final check so they have it says here so I have 30 and a half days left or in calendar days six weeks that’s three paychecks
I am being asked to submit references for my new role okay so it’s not job offers uh it’s it’s an actual so so they aren’t potential job offers they are actual job offers um and it looks like they’re asking for references that means that they’re pretty far in the interview process to
Just turn back around right they’ve not reached the points of no return but it appears as if both parties are showing commitment to one another so they’re being asked to submit references for a new role and it says here I’m unsure whether to ask my current supervisor to be a reference
Since he ultimately is the one who approves whether I get to use my PTO hmm okay okay can I work for two companies at once and give him a six week heads up that I’m resigning while using all six of my weeks of PTO both companies are
Hospitals and I do interact with Phi on a weekly basis p h i uh I’m not sure what’s the conflict of interest looks like again because you’re working in a hospital I would need to see the employment agreement offhand whether it’s on a contractual basis or you’re if you are
An employee on the payroll but I’m assuming you are you’ve got the PTO dealing with protected health information Private health information I want to say does create some conflict of interest so I’m trying to put myself in your supervisor’s shoes where if a subordinate came to me and said hey I’m
Starting a new position Not only would I like you to be a reference I’m giving you a six weeks heads up notice that I’ll be leaving typically in my experience I mean if you’re handling confidential information like that they would request that you uh I mean if they have an inkling if they
Have the a premonition if they’re privy to you leaving in advance I’ve I’ve known companies to just tell you to go home then and there to turn in your badges any any clearance cards and they would go through any accounts they have of yours as far as Communications so as far as access
Um and other accounts to deny you access in the future like email like uh system logs and things of that nature um I mean I can appreciate you wanting to be open I can appreciate you wanted to be open and telling your manager that um you’ll be
Leaving in the future and that would give your supervisor your manager that’d give your supervisor a heads up to look for somebody else so you don’t just surprise them with with a two-week notice or you know the the day of just bouncing the day of though it’s not unheard of
Um it’s a professional courtesy especially in in states that are right to work or AKA fire at will States you could just leave the day of you could start one morning and then go to lunch and uh just never come back from lunch I mean that’s a little dramatic or
What you could come up and you could just tell your supervisor that you’re not coming back from lunch right and that’s that’s your rights that’s your right to do that you could leave for no cause for no reason unless the contract States otherwise unless you are working as an independent contractor
And your contract states that now um there’s nothing wrong with working with two for two places at once again how that interacts with the hospitals I would need to see the onboarding documentation whether or not they require exclusivity from you as a as an employee to only work for one
Hospital at a time I mean you could have a side gear you could work at a hospital then work nights at a grocery store stock and shelves I don’t see a conflict there but you bring up a good point to working with uh personal information with patient information and that’s protected
Information that’s by law that’s confidential um so a conflict of interest could arise there though I don’t I don’t know to what extent or or to what degree such a conflict would exist but um yeah if you can if you could finesse it in a way
To start I think it’s just being stuck on wanting your supervisor as a reference I don’t particularly know for what reason I mean maybe you don’t have um co-workers maybe you only report to this one supervisor and they happen to be the only person you report to and the only
Person you work with if you don’t have other colleagues in the field colleagues that you can trust um I mean going to a supervisor you’re essentially showing your cards essentially showing your hand as to what you have planned which is to take PTO I mean in a perfect world I
Would take some of this PTO start the new job maybe with two weeks left of the six week PTO then give notice to the job I’m at now but this is assuming that you’re not using your supervisor as a reference I wouldn’t get tied down to a supervisor
For a reference unless you absolutely trust them and unless you know it’s going to go according I think in order to be sure you want to read the documents you were given by your current employer to make sure that there is no conflict of interest so you know how to
Approach your supervisor you want to assure your supervisor that they aren’t doing anything wrong by being a reference of yours and essentially facilitating you not just taking the PTO because they have to authorize uh they have the the final Authority there are the final Authority in approving it but
That they are doing anything wrong by having you work in two hospitals at the same time um you just want to relieve them of any doubt I think doing so is uh very professional that’s what I would do as a corporate Cowboy I would be thorough I would dot my eyes cross my
T’s check your p’s and your cues stay on them so that you know for sure whether or not working for two hospitals is a viable option and you effectively could double your income for a short period of time while you transition and do that through PTO so
You’ve got the paid time off to take advantage of and while you aren’t working at one place you’re working at another but still receiving the two checks I feel like that’s the that’s the most straightforward answer we would need a little bit more context as to what the relationship between
The employee and the supervisor is uh on a personal level on a professional level and additionally we would need to see this onboarding the onboarding paperwork for both hospitals actually um again this is just for the sake of being thorough if I had this person in front of me
Those would be the documents that I would ask for and questions that I would ask if you will find yourself in a similar position think about whether or not a conflict of interest exists and actually think through and read your employment agreements any any written agreement that you would have signed to
Part of uh part of your employee manual part of your employee handbook any of the policies and procedures for a place that you work at if you are interested in a one-to-one some type of career consultation I could help you with that I’m more than happy to I’ve I’ve helped
Many others in the past to get a job or get promoted or move up or resolve some type of inter-work conflict you can find us online on Instagram at corporate Cowboys with a z the corporate Cowboys podcast on patreon there are multiple tiers that you could
Sign up for if you want to shoot us some type of DM you could do that a donation with the message attached do it we can make a video from it you know you can include your contact info when they’re if you would like if
You want a shout out of sorts you know the links exist um snail mail also works P.O box 3372 Rancho Cordova California 95741 now let me let me read a couple of these comments because it being Reddit I mean I’m sure somebody has a a good idea or maybe even
Have a better idea something more reasonable than what I’m suggesting because I’m trying to not what is it not require the client not require this employee to uh juggle too many balls at once not to juggle too many things at once and it’s it’s important that the transition from one
Employer to the other employer from one place of employment to the second place of employment to be as smooth as possible Right to not all not be our Herky jerky um assuming that the second place of employment is going to be also somewhat long term enough time to you know rack
Up PTO in the future whether or not they choose to use it you know something stable uh for for the duration that they’re going to be working there the first comment here says you will get screwed if you’re holding on to that much PTO before giving notice
Start using it now or you’re going to lose it uh I would agree I would tend to agree with this and that’s why I suggested not using the supervisor as a reference I think if the supervisor is given the heads up beforehand it introduces uncertainty in the supervisor and the
Supervisor wants to be as certain as possible so if they’ve got six weeks of you potentially working for somebody else because well they acted as your reference they’re going to want to let you go immediately I mean you’re not there anymore and if the supervisor is hold on yeah if they are technically
Privy to this 20 days being cashed out when your employment ends they probably don’t give a [ __ ] how much PTO you have I mean I’m just being honest 20 50 hours 100 hours they probably don’t give a [ __ ] if you’re telling your supervisor that you’re leaving in six weeks they
Could make that effective immediately okay pack your things you can go home uh we’ll have somebody else cover your shift leave your badge at the front desk on your way out I’ve I’ve seen it happen before um but showing your cards early on that’s what I was that’s what I mentioned beforehand
Showing your cards early on may not be the smartest option because this it’s the supervisor ultimately who approves whether or not you take the PTO so they could approve uh they could essentially pull the rug out from under you for those uh 30 and a half days those six weeks
Of PTO there’s three extra paychecks you could be having three extra paychecks to make it effectively cut those down to just the 20 days that you get cashed out um to start using it now yeah I would start using it now if if you could find a a
Colleague have a colleague be a reference I don’t know why it needs to be the supervisor I mean if the colleague is a good if the colleague if your colleague is a professional and is also capable socially I think they’re more than capable I think they’re apt to give
You a good reference as well okay but I mean if the supervisor is the only person you work with and the only person you report to I mean there’s nobody else in the hospital somebody higher level that you interact with on a somewhat regular basis where you could ask for a
Reference I mean I don’t know explore your options explore your options it doesn’t have to be this one person that holds this much power over you not just the reference that you want to give in their hands but the authority to approve your PTO and if if they are privy to your plan
Whether or not that PTO will even go through just be careful of that someone here says the next one says you can be a little creative for example accept the new offer but let them know in advance that you have some personal time planned for three weeks
Okay so I mean you can give a little pre-text a little premise as to uh your personal time and at the existing spot take a three-week vacation and start your new job right when you come back give your two weeks notice work those two weeks while you’re off from the new role
And they say a little f a little unethical I guess but worth a shot I wouldn’t say it’s unethical I think you’re introducing a another layer of creativity here which I can appreciate if you know how to space out that PTO right um but then you’re only using the three
Weeks of PTO when you have six weeks coming to you ah let’s see here I’m trying to think of uh of how to fix that I’ve had a build on that and make it better it’s just that you already run into problems when you accept the new offer this is assuming
That you’ve got the second offer and you’ve got that second job but you’re still in the process of just getting the reference I I I’m really stuck on using your supervisor as a reference um I would advise you not to as a professional as a corporate Cowboy
Right I mean none of this is legal advice you do with it what you want but I would consult I would consult with you reconsidering using your supervisor as a reference because you’re going to need the supervisor to then sign off and approve your PTO before you effectively leave and uh
Any good supervisor worth their assault is going to want to save the company money right if they are up your ass in your business right that’s if they even know how much PTO you have but if the operation is pretty tight I mean we could assume it’s a safe bet
That the supervisor is chummy with HR and HR is on top of PTO so having to approve any of this if you let the supervisor in on your plans to leave um they could effectively bump up that date and make your departure immediate this next comment here says some places
Will take your resignation effective immediately so that you cannot use any future planned PTO yeah that’s that’s what I said earlier that’s smart that’s the smarter way to do it especially if the manager can just save the company money and they could hire somebody else in the meantime to fill in
For you while they’re in the process of getting somebody else to replace you um this uh and somebody actually replies that and says this if it is any sort if it hold on what if it is any sort of competitor they can walk you out the door instantly
Forfeiting any PTO you have they aren’t legally required to pay out to you start using your accumulated days ASAP yeah so anything above those 20 hours that they are required to pay out to you on your last check they could walk you out like they’re saying and make your departure
Effective immediately save save their checkbooks [ __ ] six weeks of PTO especially if you’re going to a competitor like I mentioned there might be that conflict of interest they’re working at two hospitals if this was for I don’t know some type of some food bank some grocery store a cashier at some place
There might not be that conflict of interest where the the the manager I mean I doubt that the manager would see your logic in it but maybe for whatever reason you’re taking a cut in pay I can’t see how working at a hospital working as a cashier you would make more
As a cashier than working at a hospital I can’t see that but if your manager is understanding they’ll probably give you those six weeks of PTO while you establish yourself at this other spot that goes back to your personal relationship with your manager how they treat you and how you treat each other
As a colleague and as professionals but yeah if it’s for a competitor they might as well tell you to kick rocks as soon as you let them know what you’re planning and and you might effectively be burning that bridge for a personal reference they they might be less likely
To give you a personal reference if you are not upfront with them about that um or like I said if you don’t find somebody else to be a reference player card smart man don’t don’t get caught up in this [ __ ] uh another comment here says definitely
Do two jobs at once ignore the people who have been brainwashed by Corporate America it is totally legal uh yeah I don’t think anybody’s been [ __ ] brainwashed this person has something against Corporate America when corporate is the next best thing after sliced bread I mean to be real it’s a corporate world
Order you gotta [ __ ] play the game and this person was over here acting like they just discovered fire to do two jobs at once to work two jobs at once uh one more two more comments uh somebody else is saying depends on the environment I used to work for a
College and it was standard practice that people got a new job they gave notice they took their vacation that was not paid out they started their new job and then took a vacation day from the new job and came back and worked one last day at the college you see it just
Really depends on what the practice is um and that go again goes back to the relationships that you keep professionally with employers and supervisors and colleagues as a corporate Cowboy it’s in your best interest to be able to shake hands with anybody right to be able to work with
Anybody granted there are going to be some people that you do not want to work with but if you can’t uh knock them out or dispose of them somehow it’s best to shake hands with them before you turn your back and Destroy them before you before you jump ship to
The competitor and Destroy them how about that somebody else says never use your current manager or anyone in your management hierarchy as a reference no company will expect that no company will expect that or accept that I don’t [ __ ] know no company will expect that it says nothing good can come of that
Job offers can fall through um I’m not so sure what they mean by job offers can fall through unless they’re talking about a manager or that hierarchical supervisor sabotaging your job offer if you if you ask them to be a reference but I think that goes back to I think
That speaks more so to you as a professional and the company that you keep and to them also as a colleague whether or not they can give you a good reference one last comment here says I would start using as much up as you can now with my previous employer we
Needed the vice president’s approval for any PTO requests over one full-time work week with my current employer we need vice president’s approval and that’s after the direct manager and then the direct manager approval so after the direct manager then HR manager approval they would still need
The VP approval for any PTO request over two full weeks and I get it they don’t want employees taking two plus consecutive weeks of time off since someone else will have to do their job and their absence and or it’ll take a while for the employee taking all that
Time off to get caught back up when they return I know when I return from maternity leave that was 16 weeks total they say I asked for one or two days for admin tasks so I could get through and clean up my inbox learn any of the new policies and procedures Etc
Yeah that makes sense I mean uh depending on what kind of bridges you want to keep right if you don’t want to burn your Bridges I think taking six weeks of PTO and then coming back or taking uh yeah taking six weeks of PTO now what if what if you shaved it down
To like four weeks of PTO within the last two weeks you you come back and give your two weeks notice so you could jump ship to another company it’s gonna look rather unprofessional because you’ve been there for such a long time accruing all of this PTO you take a huge
Chunk of time off I would say almost an unreasonable amount if if you’re not if they’re not expecting you to come back if you are not expecting to come back and continue working taking taking a month off and then quitting as soon as you get back
It just appears Shady it would leave us bad taste in anybody’s mouth now that’s why I suggest and insist that they go back and read the agreements find what the policy and procedure is to getting this PTO to finding whether or not there’s a conflict of interest seeing whether or not there are
Additional Hoops to jump through in order to make it happen and then do so in a polite and professional manner it would be in the employee’s best interest to do this um because uh I mean yeah they’re still planning on if they’re still planning on using their supervisor as a reference
Otherwise the supervisor what’s the supervisor gonna say you left for a month and then didn’t come back you actually let you actually gave a two weeks notice which they could have made effectively immediately and then claim you left them high and dry essentially so you took a bunch of
You took an extended vacation and then just left the company leaving them high and dry it doesn’t sound like too hot of a reference coming from your supervisor from coming from your former supervisor so there are a couple of uh details to address there really consider and reconsider whether
Or not you want the supervisor as a reference find whether or not it is feasible whether that PTO is something you want to sacrifice whether or not the benefit of this new job maybe it’s an increase in salary of some kind um whether it’s worth sacrificing whatever
Unused PTO you have at your former company I mean why didn’t you take that time off I mean is the is the work culture just that stress-free and that nice the monies and the benefits are are worth it where you don’t feel the need to leave at all for vacation anywhere or even
Take time for yourself I mean it’s a lot of paid time off you want to consider that and and uh find if you could leverage it somehow to the benefits of your employer um if if money is uh well hold on hold on if money is the motive right what if what if
You are able to leverage it somehow in a nice manner you could maybe not have potential job offers coming your way and instead introduce those job offers as a bargaining chip to your current employer and you could potentially get more money out of them get more benefits out of them and begin
Using that PTO in a productive manner in a pleasurable manner right so you don’t leave the company having lost PTO because that is effectively time that you’ve accrued with with uh with a show of loyalty and a show of productivity at your current employers um that is also an option but again I’m
Not here to I mean I’m just here to give you like a like a skeletal outline of sorts if you want to flesh it out then you have to reach out to us on some corporate Cowboy [ __ ] and you can do that online dropping us some mail and we can get in touch
We can get in touch the rates are reasonable we keep it professional until the next time have a nice one
source
