Important Sacrament I want to pull up some of the um Credo criticisms okay so I have one here yeah well all right I’m waiting for uh Dr Han to get his next hit piece for endorsing this book okay so wait let’s let’s go with this well this is this is
All goes back to this and stuff so all right well before even that Rob let’s see unless I’m misreading it Bishop Schneider and Credo seems to be asserting no unbaptized person has human dignity and two anyone who is in a state of mortal sin also lacks human dignity
This seems dot dot dot really bad and dangerous in addition to being false okay so this is who is this that wrote this this is the you know who it was that was Tom oh was it Tom so is the Dignity of this is what Bishop Schneider
Wrote is the Dignity of the human person rooted in wait is the Dignity of the human person rooted his creation and God’s image and likeness this was true for Adam but with original sin the human person lost this resemblance and dignity in the eyes of God he recovers this
Dignity through baptism he keeps it as long as he does not sin mortally so that’s what uh Nick was getting into when he said the the word dignity or Rob is it you maybe saying what do we mean by the word dignity there right Schneider is using dignitas in like the
Old like Roman sense which was like a moral standing it’s your moral standing it’s not like your identity as as a human being it doesn’t mean you’re worthless right it means it means you lost you lost something through original sin Adam loses something through original sin right so it’s uh okay so I
Would I I think Protestants view original sin as a stain on the soul where Catholics view original sin as a lacking of God’s grace in the soul well I’d say it’s both so it’s like in in the sense well it depends again what you mean by certain things but yeah like a
St the stain in the sense that like we are going to have like the niggling the niggling vestiges of Nick Nick can’t use that word wow what word oh my goodness what wordes yeah what the way you said it it just sounded like we’re just making a joke it
Justed a little I was like what’s wrong with David alre is coming for you now man I don’t even know who that is but all right um I don’t all right let’s go again let’s do the niggling did I did I trespass upon like some no we just thought it was a funny
Line what did you call me so confused okay whatever um yeah my point is so like we have you know through original sin when it’s forgiven in baptism we still of course have a certain amount of its effects right so we have you know a darkened in the remainder of a certain darkened
Intellect divided will inflamed passions things like that and it’s again forgiven I’d say Bishop Schneider is completely correct the problem is is that I think that and I thought I saw it in one of the questions that you pulled up Rob so many people are looking at this concept
Of dignity through Emanuel kant’s lens yes and that is a problem because they’re getting this from primarily an incorrect view of sin itself so this is the this is what’s so interesting so many modern catechisms and modern Faith formation programs and I can say this is a catechist for for almost four years
Now what they’ll do is they’ll say what is sin and they’ll say you know it’s a wounding of man’s dignity right which is so like okay okay this is a seventh grader like what is like how but they’re actually saying the same thing that Schneider’s saying well what they but
See this the thing what they mean by the sin though is that they’re emphasizing the fact that like man’s dignity I don’t think they’re saying is rooted in the concept of sanify Grace because where they’re getting their idea of sin comes from is they’re not focusing on the
Reality that sin is first and foremost yeah it’s Injustice against God it’s an injustice against God and therefore we as his subord creatures of course have to to render that only through Christ of course can that be rendered um and so therefore they’re looking at this human
Dignity through a a different lens and I think that’s where this this criticism come but that’s where like all theology the body and JP 2’s personalism like so much of it’s influenced by you know Enlightenment listen to me I would say when a woman dresses provocatively she
Loses her dignity how can this not be true no exactly exactly right I mean if I do something that I if I sin in certain ways of course you lose your dignity it’s undignified something is undignified I mean come on this isn’t even a problematic thing I don’t understand it
All right so let’s go to the next one according to Bishop Schneider and Credo basic human fraternity can only exist between the baptized who are only persons in with basic human dignity in quotes I’m really beginning to be not quite sure how Schneider’s version of Catholicism is compatible with
Incompatible with abortion or genocide he’s he’s twisting what means gross interpretation of what he saying so this is what Schneider said does Christian humanism radically affirm the Dignity of every person as a child of God thereby establishing a basic fraternity this is what we were talking about earlier no it
Is the sacrament of baptism that establishes basic human fraternity for there is no parity between the condition of those who have have adhered to the Catholic Truth by the Heavenly gift of faith and the condition of those who led by human opinions follow a false religion and if anyone shall say to say
That the condition of the faithful and those who have not yet attained to the only true faith is on par let him be anathema so is that that’s a dog I wonder what I wonder from what council that is let me look at that footnote real quick so yeah so look what what
He’s talking about there in the way I see it is he’s he’s address ing Francis and um the basic sentiment we have in the church right now about human fraternity oh we have to build human fraternity right and he’s saying no you you can’t have fraternity of man without
The fatherhood of God outside notice how and Lewis this is from Mike Lewis Here notice that Lewis gives the foot a footnote 53 says that says it’s a confusing claim with catechism but he doesn’t tell you what foot footnote 54 is which is probably a dogmatic statement from a
Council it sounds like Vatican one wait is that his opinion a confusing claim of the catechism of the Catholic church or is that that’s is the footnote that’s Schneider’s footnote I think let me see if I can find that yeah uh okay so what in other words human what
They’re trying to do now with the abrahamic faith house and with all the they’re trying to build human fraternity which is a masonic principle of course it’s a masonic principle doesn’t matter what religion you are let’s just have a Brotherhood of Man and what Schneider is saying is no true human fraternity can
Only exist in the one true religion it’s the only place that it actually can exist look what we’re going through right now in the church is a family crisis what we are in right now is the most dysfunctional family fight that’s ever happened because you have Catholics
I mean you’re talking about people that got upset with me for implying that baptism is how we become children of God who are Catholics who would consider themselves faithful Catholics it’s the teaching is so unclear right now that that we have such a lack of authority
And fathers in the church right now that the children have run a muck and the children are taking that Authority on themselves get that so so Lewis and and Tom and others are upset at this catechism because they even they say that it is incompatible with Vatican 2
And the pope sense right of course it so that’s kind of what we’re saying too well well foot 54 there Nick was right on it is uh de philus from the from Vatican 1 Canon 6 so that is a dogmatic statement from a ecumenical council that Mike Lewis believes is incompatible with
Vatican 2 in the pope sense the thing is is like I kind of think so too this is where my more spicy takes are but I mean yeah like it’s a different Church yeah like the entire the entire system in and of itself while there’s a lot of good things that you
Can get from it like the like you were saying a second ago Anthony you know everything is so confusing right now or the teaching is so confusing I would say like the teaching is not confusing but the hierarchy is an absolute and I say this with absolute respect it’s a joke
At the moment it’s a complete joke like if like if I as a teacher right who teaches catechism as well as theology classes if I was to teach in the way that things are being taught right now no one would get a passing grade they wouldn’t even know what I said you know
It was just it’s it’s absolutely it’s absolutely crazy but yet this is a different religion that’s more focused on human fraternity how do we get everybody to kind of col us and Kumbaya and you know rather than let’s build great Cathedrals let’s build the Great abrahamic family Temple like that is the
Greatest image pictoral image that you can get of where the consilia church is moving to that’s just all that it is so here’s here’s what uh kind of get uh baffles me about the pope spers and I mean the the Pope’s spers who are faithful Catholics right these are these
Are the pope spiners who are Pope spers not because they love what Francis is doing Pope spiners because they want to respect the Dignity of the office of St Peter okay th those people um it’s almost as if they think we’re enemies of the church where I think that a lot of trads
The I mean it says it in Scripture that there is going to be a great falling away and that St Paul says whether I or an angel from heaven preaches another gospel to you let him be accursed like we look at that and we are just horrified at what we’re seeing by
Them trying to change everything and we’re saying is that I don’t think it’s crazy to think that we are in the Great apostasy if this is not the great apostasy what exact L is the great apostasy because we are seeing every single person fall away from the faith
Right now and we’re talking about in the church the hierarchy still claiming to be Catholic falling away I think a lot of people thought the great apostasy would mean people leave the Catholic church but the great apostasy is the the Catholic hierarchy abandoning the faith what would be more like what would be
More cunning from the devil right to have everyone just leave the faith or to reinvent it and keep everybody in the same unit if you will I think that this is where like that sense of wanting to defend the office of the papacy is a good Catholic sense you’ve said it
Plenty you guys both said it plenty of times on this show and that’s great because it is a good Catholic sense the problem though is it’s like is podcasters really the problem or is it the pro-abortion feminist who’s in charge of the you know pontifical Academy of Life Who was appointed by the
Pope put into that position is is that the problem or are we just who are just kind of rambling having a conversation on a Friday night are we the problem come on give us a break and the thing is I’m not trying to so dissent and I’m not
Trying to I’m I’m genuinely confused myself right I’m just and I’m trying to work out my thoughts on air I am just some dad with a microphone and a webcam right so Lally is a dad with the webcam I just am I’m a construction worker and
A dad with a webcam and I and I think I am like so many other Catholics out there who are struggling with what’s going on right now I’m not sitting here telling everybody this is what needs to be done this is what the problem is I’m
Trying to work this out and I’m seeing things happening and I’m saying I don’t know guys this sound this just I I hate look I’m I have a bit of apocalyptic phobia myself um yes you do no filia not phobia no no no I look all right so I
Have I I have a little bit of both so I like Apocalypto Mania a bit because it’s fun but I also have little Apocalypto phobia because I don’t want to be a cliche Trad who’s always talking about Fatima and it’s it’s but like Fatima dude I don’t want to be that guy but
Like Fatima man no I mean no it’s it’s fair just because it’s like look I mean if everything was hunky dory we wouldn’t even be having these conversations I mean look at the people like you guys you guys are on Twitter you guys see it
More than I do look at the big names who are now calling the Senate onto the carpet like Cardinal Zen who rightly points out that like the two I don’t know if you guys saw that the two Chinese Bishops that left the Senate today right they said that they were
Leaving for pastoral concerns back home I’m like they’re literally communist appointed Bishops who work for the CCP it’s crazy like like are they the problem or is like this imprisoned Cardinal who can’t even get five minutes of conversation with the Holy Father is he the problem real quick Katy Mass do
You want us to just go into some of the more difficult things or do you want to actually I mean would go through I’m actually I’m actually starting a series on kredo next week and I don’t I don’t want to take it from Nick if he’s doing
It know I was gonna say like the more the marrier so it’s like this is not a competition I’m I’m putting it out there for free so it’s like if you guys want to do something where you like really have conversations about like deep stuff that’s cool I’m doing this more like a
Let let’s go line by line I give my quick thoughts and stuff so oh that’s pretty cool so I think let’s let Nick do that and I mean let’s go through all these things that Lewis is complaining about yeah let’s go through some of the problematic stuff together right now
Let’s let’s I mean we’ll do that and then Nick Nick is going to go line by line uh for for uh cat name Mass so um let’s see I’m just a caveman your world frightens confuses me that sounds like an apple podcast review yes Tom we are live right now um
Uh so uh all right so what else is what what does Lewis have in his article um let’s see here so dignity human fraternity let’s see what else he has just as so he’s got the Muslims the Muslims holding the same Faith he’s got that listed let’s go through that again
Yeah yeah I got I actually I was I was telling Rob before the show started actually before you showed up I I got to see that little snippet of your guys’ show Back to the Future because I’m a huge back to the future lover myself so
Uh but yeah no so it seems like the controver let’s look at the controversy real quick go ahead and uh so is it so this is from Schneider’s CR is it true to say that Muslims hold the faith of Abraham no Abraham saw three and adored one Genesis
182 and 3 and rejoice in the vision of the future Redeemer John chapter 8:56 excluding neither Christ nor the trinity in his faith conversely the Muslim explicitly excludes faith in Christ and the Holy Trinity yeah 100% agree 100% agree so I my my my point was um the Muslims are claiming to believe
In the god of Abraham yes and I agree with that okay so they’re claiming to believe in the god of Abraham The God Who created everything so unless there is another omnipotent all powerful being I I’m not saying that UND I like I would and I’m not even saying I agree with
This I’m giving I’m trying to steal man their argument sure sure yeah right I would say they a as Vatican 2 says they profess to hold the faith of Abraham so they’re not they’re not professing that they hold the faith that you could read it that they’re professing to hold the faith that
Abraham held or they could be professing that Abraham held the Muslim faith so so the the one the right they profess that Abraham held the Muslim faith but also I made the mistake of saying they believe the faith of Abraham Isaac and Jacob but that’s totally wrong because Abraham has
Two sons Isaac and ish and they’re the descendants of isites yeah they’re they’re ishmaelites like so it’s I mean I wasn’t even thinking when I said that last episode but so I’m I’m I am not saying they worship the same I’m trying to steal man and play modernist Advocate
Um that’s what they’re saying they’re going to say unless there’s some other omnipotent all powerful being who created everything and is all merciful and but the thing is they don’t believe God is love the the the things that that we make the claims we make about God
Because God revealed them to us they would be appalled at well and even if we remove the revelations from God and just look at God from natural reason the arguments people were making online such as the guy from CVS was that you can that if you use natural reason you can
Come to certain conclusions about the one about one God and that Muslims believe in that God but that’s not true yes we from reason we can conclude God is perfectly simple uh he is unchanging he is all good um perfectly you know all these different things well you you use
Principles right of the unmoved Mover and those th those things that’s that’s I guess what they’re saying but M Muslims to them the power of God is so important to them that they don’t believe all those other things about God yeah so it’s like you’re gonna have certain emphasises in like attributes
That are going to be conf flated as well as like their doctrine of Ted is going to be so so vastly different in so many ways than the Catholic understanding of God my question is this is that so there’s that phrase is it you might want to look it up Robin
No because I don’t want to be butchering it but like doesn’t it not say like they adore the one God with us because that’s my key phrase we pulled it up last time Rob pull that up again let me ask you this okay if they don’t worship the same
God as us are they in are they worshiping a God that doesn’t exist or are they worship worshiping a demonic entity that does exist yeah a good question so if people want to do a deep dive check out the sakur theologian assuma introduction of Theology and Christian Revelation because it actually
Gets into the basic discussion of like what is a religion a religion is like us clinging to with intellect and a religion is a relation to a personal being right with our intellect and our will so it’s like we recognize that we need God with our intellect we submit to
What he he’s given and then we say yes to following him with our will so there oh go ahead Rob yeah go for it so it says the church regards with esteem also the Muslims they adore the one God living and subsisting in himself merciful and all powerful the creator of
Heaven and Earth who has spoken to men they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even his inscrutable decrees just as Abraham with whom the faith of Islam Islam takes pleasure in linking itself submitted to God uh though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God they rever him
As a prophet they also honor Mary his virgin mother at times they even call on her with devotion in addition they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead finally they value the moral life and worship God
Especially through prayer alms giving and fasting yeah I’m looking I’m thinking of uh so it’s paragraph 841 of the CCC right the church the church’s relationship with Muslims it says the Plan of Salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator in the first place amongst those who are
Muslims these profess to hold the faith of Abraham and then this is the key phrase and together with us they adore the one merciful god Mankind’s judge on the last day well the only true what is that from That’s from the catechism let’s see paragraph 841 catechism
841 second edition so current edition of the catechism now that the catechism apparently can be changed willy-nilly but that’s another discussion anyway but yeah so that phrase adore like together with us they adore the one merciful god that’s where I’ll completely say that’s completely incorrect you guys brought up
The other night the catechism of Pope St Pi the 10th right which I think this argument started to be used really by Mr Timothy Gordon I’m not bashing him or anything I’m just that’s where I think it’s become popular but catechism of Pope St Pi 10th doesn’t say anything
Remotely near that it basically just it basically acknowledges the fact that Islam believes in a monotheistic being yeah and Pi the 10th being a good Scholastic is gonna understand that that’s a personal being that’s all that is I want okay so I lived in a Muslim country for 14 years in their prayers
They literally claim that there is no God but Allah they have a separate word for or God and Allah is a distinct way a distinct so-called deity now but if you go to Arab Christians they will call what we would say God they will say Allah but that that’s because that’s
Just the word for God well in Arab but before they were spoke Arabic they spoke Aramaic and that’s a different word okay my okay so what here’s my here’s my question do they worship a God that does not exist or is it a demonic entity I would say that it’s most likely a
Demonic entity just because when you take at least seriously the story of Muhammad and also what Muhammad himself claims you see two accounts one when Muhammad’s in the cave right he’s has an angel of Light appeared to him and then also by his own descriptions in the
Hadith right which are which are the kind of oral sayings in the life of Muhammad every time he gets a quote unquote Revelation he’s twitching on the ground he is foaming at the mouth and he’s saying like it’s a very very intense Affair of course this is demonically inspired St Augustine is
Very clear that the only true worship of God can take place inside of the Catholic church and the Catholic Church alone how can you call god father if you do not have the church for mother is what he also says and so I think that that’s demonically inspired absolutely
Because when you also look at it isn’t it convenient that there seems to be whole passages of uh Islamic Revelation which completely avate great natural and and holy things like child adoption for the sake of Muhammad wanting to marry his son’s wife convenient this is exactly what St Peter says in second
Peter chapter 2 and he says that false prophets Have Eyes Full of adultery same thing with Joseph Smith right Joseph Smith happens to have all of these Revelations that only he can understand hieroglyphics buried in New York state right only he can interpret them then they’re magically raptured up into
Heaven but then all of a sudden there’s a Herm of women that are just around him right it’s the same story with every demonically false prophet scripture has said it and it plays out every day so to me the I would say the best argument against Muslims adoring the same God as
Us is is um what was the what was the heresy of marcian it was that the new the god of the New Testament was different from the god of the Old Testament right in Islam the later Hadith I think they’re called of the Quran after um I
Forget if it’s after Mech the trip to Mecca or the trip to Medan I’m not sure yeah are mostly after just Muhammad’s life yeah the the whole but the later Hadith of the Quran abgate the like the first half of the Quran oh yeah yeah
Yeah so so what you’re thinking of is so the Hadith is separate from thean okay okay yeah you’re right AB right so it’s it’s what it’s SAS the later SAS yeah yeah exactly because it’s it’s later teachings agregate earlier teachings yeah you’re right so then the god they
Believe in is changing and cannot be the same God we adore yeah um Tom says Tom it’s actually an historian heresy um a little bit of both both yeah I mean they’re both claiming that Jesus is not God right not just not just to mention all of the uh very very interesting
Scientific problems like the sun setting in a pool of muddy water or sperm coming from the spinal cord or all kinds of insane things where Muhammad is you know marrying a let’s just say Chris Hansen worthy episode young lady or wearing women’s clothes or saying that you can like cleanse oneself
At the bathroom with an odd number of stones you have to dip the fly in the milk so that you can get that stuff is in there that’s all this is all in the Hadi so it’s like the Quran yeah but all right but you go to Deuteronomy they got
Some weird things in there too dude no no everything is perfect it all makes 100% rational sense and we have entire commentator Traditions when you go over to Muslim Nation there’s a lot of Muslims there’s some pretty crazy shakes who think you have to do this and the
Thing is this in the Quran it only mentions Muhammad four times only four times right and so there’s like a small heretical by Islamic standard sect of Muslims which are called Quran only Muslims because the Quran says that the standard of conduct is Muhammad he’s
Like the lipus test but the only way you know about Muhammad’s life is by reading the collections of Al Hadith and when you go and you read the collections of all Hadith you find that this guy you know is saying on the one hand you can
Marry up the four wives but I have nine and half of them are underage and all of these crazy things that I’ve been saying you know whether it’s literally dunking the fly or using the stone or that you can drink camel pee because God will like somehow cleanse it in your pallet
Or that the sun sets in a pool of Muddy Water why would you read this because there’s a lot of people lost that’s the thing we got to understand so when we’re doing these ridiculous acumenical meetings where we’re up there just saying oh yeah let’s all be buddy buddy and I’m like look
This guy’s book literally is saying that we can cleanse our myself with an odd number of stones that’s not the god I worship that’s insane I’m going to put a poll up tomorrow that says does Aras did Aras worship the one true God he’s far closer to it than musim I
Know he is that’s my point and I want to see how and I want to see how it compares to the do Muslims worship the one true God Joseph is BAS they can’t eat bacon that’s demonic 100% yeah Aras was way closer because he he he he he was closer he he believed
Christ was Aras believe a created being Aries even believed the New Testament for the most part he just had a heretical understanding of the nature of Christ yeah yeah heretical like you could in a strict sense say that Islam is like a heresy of Christianity in the
Strict sense but then just to like you have to again like read that catechism passage in context in the 1960s context are they really concerned about like Scholastic Precision or are they interested in kumbayas spirit let’s all get together cathars albinism that’s a a Catholic heresy but they believe in
Dualist you know a a dualistic you know basically two Gods good and evil are equal in power right so so being a Christian heresy doesn’t doesn’t mean at all that they believe in the same God as is no exactly because it’s like I mean
All it all it means is that it has its like origin in some type of Christian principle but it’s grossly inaccurate now I don’t even I don’t even I don’t even know what that you know I know what it is but I don’t want phrase is peace
Be upon him so he’s saying police be upon him but the second part I’m not gonna say it you know look the thing is is that there’s plenty out there about Muhammad and he is the last person on the face of the planet that you’d want to be
Following as a good moral conduct person like um we would have to have an uncensored show if I was just to go off right now about some of the crazy [Laughter] stuff that I want is a dubia question submitted to Rome see if they answer was there any other um
Problematic areas that Mike Lewis brought up um oh I’m sorry guys please forgive me you I do think it should be pointed out that Lewis is complaining about the beliefs of that Schneider has about Muslims Schneider lives in a nation of of Muslims Le probably hasn’t talked to
One in you you ever hear Eric samon try to say Kazakhstan it’s it’s hilarious because it’s not a hard word not at all Kazan Eric Kazakhstan it’s not you could say Kazakhstan Kazakhstan it’s not that hard bud
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