W Naal All right everybody Welcome this is another episode of the Gator Gates podcast we’re happy to be with you again here tonight my name is kajim sopta I’m joined here with kenash sopta and our guest name is Joseph Campbell also known as second ra Min Maat so before we get
Started we’d like to give a special shout out to the forces in the non material particularly Master n NAA mus Mor denig who’s the founder of the earth center we’d also like to give a shout out to my ancestors his ancestors his ancestors and your ancestors as well and
All of the other forces and nonmaterial whether it be deities Genies entities whatever it be we just like to shout them out and we also like to give a special shout out to our sponsor sauce hot sauce so sauce hot sauce started in 2007 when a group of traveling students
Were in Africa students were in Africa and they were thinking of ways to support charitable causes so one of the students happened to be an artisanal hot sauce chef and right then and there sauce hot sauce was born so they support charitable causes by giving a portion of
The proceeds to help support misplaced families in the F and GMA region of Burkina Faso so please get yourself some sauce and support it because it supports good causes now we have a guest tonight and we really want to you know give him the floor to kind of like let us know
Who he is and tell his story all right um thank you I appreciate that uh first I would like to say I give thanks and praises to the ancestors as the brother open up we always always do that um because it’s important it’s important that we realize
That we’re not alone no matter how alone we may feel at different times we are not alone we might feel lonely but we’re not alone because there might be some of you that believe and there might be some of you that’s on the precipice of belief
There might be some of you that want to believe and let me tell you the ancestors are real and if you haven’t experienced it it’s only because you haven’t opened your eyes you haven’t opened your heart you haven’t clear your mind so I like to give thanks for those
Ancestors and like we say in the comedic tradition we also give thanks and praise to the father mother Creator who comes to us in the form of the Glorious laws of nature so again I said um I was born Joseph Campbell and I gained a great understanding about
Life through the comedic Legacy and maybe I would say in 2000 I went to through initiation and that’s where the name second ra Min ma came from I would say that I was like many other people I grew up in a in a kind of traditional way my family is from the
Islands and in the islands some of you know Christianity has a strong hold uh specifically we talking Jo we talking Grenada uh Grenada in the West Indies oh I can tell you Grenadian yeah yeah you got the Grenadian SP yeah we got we got a bit of charm you
Know so um grown up grown up like when my my parents were born and raised in the island so they they’re traditional and and I had influence of the Catholic church I’m a product of Catholic school I I was a alter boy when I was young I did all that so I
Understood that form of Christianity and and I would say it’s almost a blessing because honestly at that age just being young I literally I was in in uh Essex County here in New Jersey in Orange predominantly black neighborhood at the time and the Catholic Church you know we just got
White teachers we got white priests we got the white nuns and literally inside the church that’s associated with the schools Our Lady of of the valley and in the church on the Dome there’s a picture of a white god with a long white beard sitting on a throne there was nothing
But white Angels the the white chair buming stuff in like I’m young right so I’m I’m being taught they had the picture of white jesus there’s a white Jes I grew up in that right hey you know and my parents are from the islands though so I’m like like there’s
Something going on here I’m like you know culturally the island has that influence there but there’s always um The rosters like so my first Rebellion my first step into asking questions really like roster foreignism gave me that outlet because it was for most of
Us yeah I had a cousin to in a family who was a roster and he was just different he was he was a black sheep but mixing that together with my experience in the school I’m looking up and it just don’t make sense to me man
I’m I’m looking at a picture of a purely white God all these white angels and everything’s just white and like just for me being I’m mixed like I’m my mother and father from the islands but if you can’t see I’m lightskinned so you lightskinned you obviously mixed
Somewhere down the line I don’t deny that whatsoever I’ve learned to accept every aspect of who I am my ancestors from both lines but it was just a conflict you know it was a conflict and and that started this journey of just asking questions and so at some point um
When people ask me how did I get introduced to the comedic the comedic Legacy I would say this it it almost seemed Divine like it almost seemed Divine and without being too lengthy I will tell you this story as an example of how life connects and and showing you
How it came to the comedic Legacy when I was a baby my mother had bought me this neck necklace it was silver it was a silver rope chain necklace and it had a little eagle on it I was just drawn to this Eagle like it had his wings spread
Out I was just drawn to it and it was a small little rope chain but that this was the first piece of jewelry I ever had I’m just drawn to it I don’t know why I’m just drawn to it fast forward I’m in high school I done lost that
Chain long time ago broke in a fight I had with my sister you know kids we fight with our siblings when we’re young I did all of that mhm in high school my mother had a friend a coworker who was selling gold she had a connection with
Some it was real legit gold it sounds crazy but it was real legit gold her coworker friend is selling gold and my mom buys me his birthday gift what is it it’s a gold rope chain has the same emblem the same same Eagle same bird I’m
Talking about we this is I’m I’m in high school now this is about 15 20 years later same bird so now let’s talk about this you still have that chain I did I did up until recently I did up until recently where I end up losing it not through any kind of um
Negligence but through situation and life and but what it did teach me is that you never really lose anything MH like you know we hold on to things in life and even things that have sentimental value as that piece did it did and I had to deal with the loss of it
And in dealing with that loss I really learned that even as much as it meant to me and as much as it has always been a piece of my life losing it was no loss you know um but that piece kept coming back around um my uncle had again this Eagle this it
Was just the concept of spread wings and flying this Eagle my uncle had a statue in his house and I was attracted to that so let me bring this together what I’ve learned in life is that often times what we consider to be um insignificant events and we might consider them to be
Unattached events often times if you pay attention you’ll see how these things come back together and they sew themselves together later on in life I learned about Haru and I learned about the totem of Haru and one of the expressions of Haru is the the Falcon
The hawk with his wings spread and I’ve seen these images and literally whether that was a eagle or a hawk it was Haru from the time I was young I saw this thing I was just drawn to it I lost it it came back in my life not only did it
Come back in my life through this piece of gold I just got introduced to the comedic Legacy and and then the pieces start fitting together um so that’s just a little bit of who I am and I’ll I will Express this even further at a early
Age I kind of knew I wanted to be a teacher I saw the influence and this is all stemming from the Catholic church so sometimes when you’re in a situation where it might you know people might laugh at you and say you in Catholic church or you just around these white
Folks or you was around the p and you don’t have no no listen sometimes being in those situations help you the most because you get to see something that others may not see um so at an early age I just knew I want to be a teacher are
You a teacher now I was um I was so I taught Elementary School for four years I was tenured in everything I taught uh in a charter school down in North I taught well not I I taught four years there but quite honestly when I was in
College the four years I was in college I would do after school programs and I would do summer programs nice so I started working out with you know started working with the youth at that at that point and then I graduated from college I started teaching I taught four
Years um in the classroom with children I taught all grades from 4 through eight all subjects at one point or another and then I taught adults for 3 years um after that but my calling was always like always to be a teacher um and so it
Was you know that also taught me in order to teach you have to humble yourself and allow yourself to be taught and so it was the comedic Legacy that kind of like answered some of those questions I had having been raised under that Catholic umbrella like cuz like I
Said certain things just weren’t adding up to me um and it was through the comedic Legacy and just the understanding that yo the world is much more than than what we’ve been shown the world is much more and reties is much more than than we can
Even perceive so was there ever a point where you were like okay like this is how I’ve been raised like this is what it’s supposed to be uh and you like okay like I’m going to teach Catholicism to other people no man I never like listen
Anytime like the biggest thing for me is anytime you you tell me that there’s one and only one way it just doesn’t make sense to me it doesn’t make sense to me like and I was being being told that you know no matter who you are no matter
Where you come from if you don’t accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior you’re going to hell like it’s your soul you been this is what I was taught this is what I was told as a young child and when I started to question these things I got scared man you know
Like I was honestly scar it’s a scary statement yeah I mean I was nervous like I was nervous because I just I wanted to believe but like things just weren’t adding up and then to go against Jesus like man good Lord you know man that that that’s Troublesome yeah um so you
Got to in this life you got to kind of have the courage you got to have the courage to to seek the answers which come to you like excuse me seek answers to the questions that come to you like when you have these questions that come
To you they’re coming to you for a reason you know and I feel that it’s partly your job to listen keep an open mind and pursue the answer answer um you know but no at what what really bothered me is just this idea that there’s one
And there’s only one way and that when you told me this I said to myself you mean to tell me you mean to tell me all these people I’ve met from different walks of life exactly that are doing righteousness like they’re good people man like you know they’re helping people out you know
They’re they’re sacrificing nobody’s perfect but these are good people you mean to tell me they’re going to hell because they’re not Christian like it don’t make sense it doesn’t make sense and then and you’re the same person that’s telling me that God created everybody so God created everybody and
By your definition this Creator created everything created the different languages created different cultures different land masses the different gods different gods exactly you know what I’m saying so if every and that’s that’s where like my understanding is now is like when it takes it takes a level of maturity to understand
That God cannot be encapsulated I’m saying this even as someone who who subscribes the comedic approach and a kdic philosophy and and I do not believe the ktic way is the one and only way to worship God and to understand God no it’s a cultural expression which
Resonated with me mhm and what it has also taught me is that if you look back in the ancient days it was was never like one there was um understanding and there was sharing among amongst different cultures and different religions it was never my way is the one
And only way that’s not how it was different religious groups would share with each other they would take that knowledge back and they would bring to their people because at at the end of the day like religion was just really a facet of culture and culture is is much
More than just religion so when would you say it really like like switch though like no like okay okay there’s something wrong with this oneway ideology like there’s something going on here that I can’t really put my finger on but when was it like was it in high
School or was it after high school that you were like okay I know that there’s something wrong with this but there’s got to be something else out there and now I’m searching for it but just to add on to that cuz I really wanted to ask
You with everything he just said like at that point when it switched what was the key factor in turning off the Fear Factor for you cuz I know that’s the main for a lot of people it’s the fear it’s like I don’t want to go against
What I’ve been taught I don’t want to go against what I’ve learned because I don’t know anything else and you lose family you lose your friends all that kind of stuff oh it’s it’s it’s real I mean listen here’s the here’s the thing as well man even to this day my family
Thinks I’m troubled you know what I’m saying my my father is like a born again Christian man you know what I’m saying we just got into a disagreement the other morning because he wants to tell me how all this stuff going on in Israel and with the Hamas is like the Bible
Predicted it and we’re in the end of time I can’t stand that talk man we could talk about that later on too but not to take away from the religious context of all that but so I’m saying that to just to say that when you walk
This path you have to accept the fact that yo your family may not understand you and you also have to understand that it’s okay to live a life that other people don’t understand because at the end of the day it’s you this is your journey that you have to walk you have
Family is not walking this journey your family ain’t going to be the ones that have to stand up and face judgment your family is not going to be the one that have to make the decisions that you have to make in your life so at the end of
The day it’s your life as much as your family loves you you have to understand that you are not here to live up to your family’s expectations you’re not here to make your family happy although we want to make our families happy right we want
To bring honor to our family we want to we want our our our parents to be proud of us but at the same token we also have to understand man some of our parents don’t know no better they don’t know any better they they’ve been doing what
They’ve been taught and they raise us in the best way that they could given the information that they have but now we have too much information and there’s too much availability and too much access for us not to ask the vital questions and have the greater understanding even if you’re
A Christian I’m not knocking Christianity what I’m telling you is have a deeper understanding of what you believe in and if you go to the roots of Christianity if you look at the gnostics and the gnosticism you understand that Christianity had a foundation of wisdom it’s wisdom teachings this man you call
Jesus there’s something more there is what I’m telling you so I don’t want anybody to can shoot I’m knocking Christianity but what I’m telling you is that it is not the one and only way there’s valid there’s valid truth in it but no religion has a monopoly over the
Truth and you have to know that and you have to be okay with accepting that no one religion has a monopoly over the truth so now let me talk about me when I’m this is I’ll tell you a true story uh this is a true story so how did
I know when was the actual shift and when the chain I still resisted it I like I knew there was something in Africa right so I still resisted it so for me like my my branching away started with rastafarianism and even in rastafar it’s still kind of safe in some regards
Because some and there’s different groups in Rosa far there’s different there’s seven there’s um 12 tribes of Israel there’s Bobo Shanti like there’s naab bingi there’s different groups that have different understanding and different beliefs yeah so naing is the they worship the the priesthood so they worship like the feminine aspect like
There’s a spirit actually called naab bingi so that spirit is the spirit that was said to have possessed Nanny like Queen nanny who was the main slave revolter against the colonial system in Jamaica so she was the one who led the slaves which is my ancestors like the
Maroons she led the Maroons to fight against the Spaniards and then later on again the English H so that’s the spirit day worship and then you have the bubo Shanti which is come with the understanding coming from like Ashanti like Ghana the are in Ghana do these like denominations of rosarian ism still
Have that connection to like the biblical story and like that would be that would be the the ones he’s talking about the the 12 Tri they’re the ones that are all about that uhhuh so that’s different than you you would have rosters who was like we don’t
Deal with that bible stuff and then you have the rosters that’s like cold hard Bible I’m a Israelite 12 tribe Judah blah blah blah okay so that that’s what I was saying in some regards it was still safe like in aspect because you have some R Safari that that don’t deal
With New Testament but they’ll deal with Old Testament you know book of Psalms and and and uh Solomon and how Solomon relationship with Queen of Sheba uh M some of them eat meat some of them don’t eat meat some eat only fish and it’s it’s a lot
So um like yeah within that it’s it’s a lot and and you know then you also have just the naturalists like that just are living in nature you know what I’m saying that rejects society and and and kind of live that life so I still like like what really brought me closer is
That I had started it was in college I was at a poetry reading I read a piece up on stage this brother came up to me afterwards and he was like Hey man um yo you you like you seem like you might be interested in this I got a teacher he’s
Teaching African martial arts like you you interested cuz I did like this cultural piece you know what I’m saying I was I represented in college man I was roster like when I didn’t I had the thick locks you know what I’m saying I was that below my waist you know I had
Locks before it became like before popular popular you know what I’m saying the only people that had locks back in the day people whose family was from the islands or you from Africa or you just out there like that but that you know it wasn’t that common a thing like most
People that had locks had a Island Connection we talking about like in the ’90s yeah man we talking about the 90s that’s when I started um you know so like for me what would end up like it was just inevitable like so I’m learning more about Rosa faran ISM and Ethiopia
Keeps coming up Ethiopia Ethiopia Ethiopia because you know what I’m saying was the Emperor of Ethiopia and I’m learning more Ethiopian I’m like all right then I learned about Ethiopia was called Kush and then now going back I was at this poetry reading and and like all this is
Happening around the same time I’m learning that Ethiopia was called Kush uh and I’m at his poetry read I’m doing this cultural piece rastafar right this that and the third the guy comes up to me and he’s like you know we got this African like Master he teaches African
Martial arts it’s called kuaana and goom now once again I’m showing you how life these little random pieces start to connect back that was in 1999 when this guy came up to me and asked me if I was interested in coming to this class learn some African martial
Arts he told me that the teacher was also a priest teacher was also a comedic priest and I was like what’s Kemet like well Kemet was the name of Egypt like okay it reminded me when I was back in high school ’95 I had a element I had a
A teacher he taught me um he had an English class for freshman he was a brother he was a only black teacher in the school I was in but he was a conscious brother he was a part of a a a group that worked with political prisoners uh
It was called uru um they worked with political prisoners and they were like they were revolutionary he was telling me about this African martial art and that was in ‘ 95 I was a high school student I couldn’t get to the place but fast forward now I’m in college 5 years
Four years later I’m in college get off the stage at a poetry reading this guy is coming up to me asking me about this a it was the same martial art it was the same martial art that I got introduced to in high school but I just wasn’t old
Enough and I wasn’t it wasn’t the right time yeah sometimes things come to you in life and it’s just not the right time for you to to act upon it you know the name of the martial art it was kuaana and Gom now kubana and goom is just a
General term Ku Ghana and is Kei swah hilly and it means to fight with the body as a fist it was basically a a African martial art Federation like a representation of African martial arts in America that one of my teachers and like two other Masters had put together
And the guy the Masters were from they were from they were from America but had learned in Africa and like different Masters or bastards Masters basts the the Old Dirty Bastards I trained old dirty basts sound basts to me no the Masters were like they trained
With people from Africa and and so on um and you know it was a back in back in those times those Brothers like they grew up in a time where especially in New Jersey there was a big representation of black martial artists especially in New Jersey yeah I’m
Talking about they would go to the gym on the weekends and and fight it out and challenge each other and all it was It was a big kind of a Vibe um but I don’t I I digress a bit um thing I want to point out is that in
Our lives sometimes like we go through these things that just seem random but if you just pay attention to the the theity yeah man the synchron synchronicity you’ll start to see how things come together so to make the the shift for me it was really a process it
Was really a process it was something that took time and what I really did I prayed on it I prayed on it cuz I really felt like listen at that point who was you praying to I was praying to God whatever yeah whatever God was whatever God is some help somebody help
Me like I couldn’t pray to Jesus cuz I was questioning Jesus at the time so I said let me just go with good old number one God like you let me go with good old number one God and let me pray to God and and and uh please if I’m going wrong
And I and I really and and this is this is leading to one of the first spiritual experiences I’ve ever had M I was in college uh that’s when it really happened it happened in college phase for me uh how old are you in I wasn’t
Even 21 yet um you know maybe like 18 yeah 18 19 years old MH and I was always U I always ask questions man that was the thing like I said earlier just started out with questions I always ask questions and I knew the heart from which I was asking my questions the
Heart the intent I wasn’t trying to fall into any wickedness you know what I’m saying I wasn’t going no evil way but I’m just questioning things because what I was told is not adding up and I know that there’s something more to life than what I’m being told so all right there
Was one night it was my freshman year no sophomore year actually so let’s give you some context this is like 2001 uh I’m in the dorm room and at this time sophomore year we had a suite I I went to Ruckers I went to Ruckers any shout out to Ruckers people Ruckers New
Brunswick we had a suite it was three different rooms two people to a room that night everybody was gone and it was just me see the thing about me is that I’ve I’ve always been kind of a not a loner per se but I never felt the need
To follow the crowd and I’m always myself so everybody else was out going to frat parties and I’m like that wasn’t me that that wasn’t my scene like the parties they went to wasn’t my scene I rather stay home than to go someplace I know I don’t belong M I stayed home and
I prayed and I said God and this is what I’m telling anyone who’s questioning it like pray if you don’t you should be skeptical anytime you’re entering something new like that’s natural you should be skeptical you should ask questions but at some point you got to
Pray you pray and you live into the answer you pray and you live into the ANS so that night I prayed I man I prayed I really got on my knees and prayed because I felt like you know I might going to hell or something questioning Jesus that’s how serious it
Was I prayed yeah I mean the grip of Christianity it it spands very far oh it is it it is man to your soul expands down to got you questioning your own soul right and that night when I I prayed I just I said listen it’s something simple as this and you could
Do the same I said God Like You Listening if I’m going in the wrong way please stare me back in the right way it was something as simple as that if I’m going in the wrong way please stare me back in the right but if I’m going in
The right direction then please just keep showing me like just just keep showing me and in that very moment I kid you not man like I felt something like I just felt something and it was almost like an energy entered entered the room I’m by myself nobody else is in the dorm
And I just feel I feel something and I start crying like I’m on my knees nobody else is in the dorm I’m on my I’m on my knees and I’m I’m really like I’m I just started crying I can’t tell you why I was crying I just started crying and at
That same moment yeah I was but at the same time I felt like this presence man I felt like I wasn’t alone like something came into the dorm room with me you think it was maybe it’s your ancestors um in my understanding now it was something because I will tell
You this the whole room lit up it was just a bright a brightness a bright light like a a a a fuzzy hazy brightness and something like just swirled around and I’m crying cuz I’m kind of like just like you know like this is will freak
You out like Spirits people get into the spirituality game and think this is a game it’s not a game man Spirits are real and you could end up seeing something that you don’t know how to process or because the way we’re raised most of us are raised we we live in fear
You know what I’m saying instead of understanding the power that we have and the beings that we are like the beings that we are man we’re forced to be reckoned with you know we are and instead we don’t know that and we’re afraid of freaking ants and be in all of
The wrong ways well well exactly we learn that sometimes it takes that for us to us to learn that um but it was in that moment man I had this experience and then and I open there was a Bible in front of me I opened up the Bible and I
Can’t remember what book it was I can’t remember but it was little might have been something like Psalms or or Proverbs or something I just opened the book out I looked down and I just read the first thing that came came to my eyes and I kid you not everything it was
The Bible so yeah it was still it was still a tool of Christianity and all that don’t mean it’s not the wisdom in there and the passage I looked down and I read it answered every question I had like all my fears and all the doubts worried about going the wrong way the
Words that were in that passage spoke to them specifically and then from that point on after that I was like all right let’s run with this because at some point you have to be okay and you have to understand that listen there’s a deeper there’s there’s a deeper level to everything we’ve ever
Been taught like there’s different like like you started bringing down ni bingy and all that most people never even heard of that most people don’t even know of the connection between uh that and Queen of Sheba and the so-called Jews most people don’t know about flashes the philos Jews that in Ethiopia
They got direct lineage most people don’t like our concept of History the things that have happened is Warped it’s twisted man like like we’ve been lied to man like Malcolm X said we’ve been we’ve been bamboozled man we’ve been hoodwinked I mean yeah and even if you
Were to tell people a lot of those things like you said there’s like a fear because what religion has really done is is instilled a certain level of fear in people to the point where people fear their own culture cuz when we even really talk about na bingi essentially
What we’re even talking about is a deity which people are are been taught to fear so because it’s like in terms of like oh looking at it as like another kind of like divinity or God so people don’t even want to touch that so even like you see in certain communities even
That has been diminished that has been watered down now it’s just a simple Spirit but it’s much bigger than the spirit it’s an entire deity but what you even said just now in terms of like um any of these Gods becoming like a deity for a person right is because a human
Being is only going to look look for something that’s greater than himself to find inspiration and so of course you know our first instinct is to go out into nature but there’s nothing necessarily that animates itself to us that sort of seems outside of our you
Know con our concept of like what’s real but then when you start to have like experiences like Joe was talking about something that’s Supernatural that you can’t necessarily explain or you can’t put your finger on exactly what it is then you become inspired because you know that there’s something more that
You can’t that’s not tangible that and that people may not be able to explain to you in a very concise and precise way but it becomes a very because your story is very uh inspiring and interesting and the same Joe because there’s that part where you were talking about how uh at
One point it’s like you know you were raised in this Catholic you know environment and then you know you realize that there’s something wrong with it and then you move on throughout life and then you come to this place where it’s like okay I’m going to try something different now the safety that
You find in it is the the connection to those same things that you you know were just coming from which is of course a part of the journey and all of that but it’s like a lot of people don’t realize that that notion of like a deity or something
That’s greater than you that you’re sort of trying to shine with your with your speech right those Catholic people that were teaching you whatever they were teaching you in a Catholic school they were just shining it for you to say like this is what’s great this is what’s
Amazing this is what’s going to make your life better and you to some degree it’s like you had to latch on to it and it’s like that’s what I have for now so yeah that’s the great thing about life but then later on it’s like oh well what
About all of these oh they have these negative connotations it’s spooky nine times out of 10 you see a movie with a African person in it and anything spiritual happening it’s some scary [ __ ] Shadows involved and all that everything everything is voodoo you know even Chucky cuz it’s just was Halloween right you know Chucky I what i d that’s a whole D yeah it’s crazy CH Chucky got raised by Voodoo but yeah it’s a you know it’s a
It’s a very unfortunate part of a lot of our Journeys uh growing up here in the west but it is something that you know needs to be pointed out because it it uh it highlights something that’s very important on people’s paths that sort of emotional connection
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