Namaste and in lak’ ech and welcome to this episode of One World and new world I’m your host Zen Benefiel and this week’s guest is Kerry-Ann Powell she is a graduate of North Western University School of Law and she is the founder of traflagar strategies she talks about business
Strategy sales and marketing team optimization systems and processes and Leadership ship development uh she is the director of development programs for the memorial Foundation Incorporated uh she is also the director of fundraising and development Washington DC for the Martin Luther
King Jr National Memorial project she’s a staff attorney and food lobbyist for the United States public interest research group and I’d like to welcome her Kenne nice to have you here thank you Zen it’s good to be here so I hope I did you justice well you know tongue and [Laughter] cheek
So in our expiration of conversations that that we’ve been having over the last couple years it’s been about inner development and and we each have inner development happen in our own ways and sometimes it happens early sometimes it happens teenage sometimes midlife how how did yours begin
And and what were the things that you saw around you during this process how did you first noticed that you had something going on inside of you well I I feel like I always had a sense of um
My own spirituality well I grew up in a home that was Christian um my father was a pastor and um that certainly helps yeah and so I was always sort of introduced the to the idea that
Um I am connected um to what I call God and um but obviously as you you know you grow and and you evolve um some of it is sort of uh what you what you’re taught and some of it is what you’re
Experiencing and you learn and I think um for me I think probably when I was maybe 12 years old was when I really began sensing um a real connection that was um separate from what it was I was taught
Okay so let me ask to unpack that a little bit so what I think I heard you say was there was a there was a belief system and there was an experience system that was happening and so you were kind of
Looking at the disparity or noticing that there was the difference between the two well I think it’s more about I always knew that um that that God was with me and I was with God right so I
Always I’m very young so I can’t think of a time when I didn’t but I think um probably when I was H at the age of 12 was when I really began to uh to dig deeper into what that meant for me um
Um I guess in a more tangible way experiential rather than just a having the belief it’s like Faith turned into right your direct yeah yeah you could you could say that okay and I think over you
Know I I was lucky because um I was allowed uh you know I had lots of friends who we all were also on the Journey of of spiritual growth and so we had lots of opportunities to talk about this and to
Connect with each other and hear other people’s Journey and so forth but one of the things that I remember uh distinctly in my high school years was this Perpetual question of you know um so there’s
One thing to sort of have a real good connection with God on an individual level then you’re sort of looking at the world and you’re saying is this all there is yeah who else is out there right and
And so you begin I think that was probably where in my high school years when I was like okay there has to be more to this life than what meets the eye um and I remember that there was this um um
Artist I don’t remember his name this Christian artist who came up with a song that basically was almost titled like that and I remember when his song came out I remember I think I must have been 10th grade I remember listening to that song on a Perpetual basis there’s more to this
Life than what we see this concept of because and I think that’s always a Perpetual question for me as I even at this stage of my life and I’ve gone through various iterations of my own spiritual
Journey is the question of what we see what we take for take as face value and what is what is real and what is true sure um now do you find that that that there’s a difference in between
How you’re thinking and how you’re sensing and I bring that up because there seems to be some consistency that there’s this sense that really is in the body rather than just in the head and
You know yeah I think I think that there is one you know there’s this whole idea of just sort of being still um and sort and and and knowing and I think once you are able to be it’s difficult
To be still in this particular um iteration of our society because we’re so very busy right um and so but when when you do have opportunities to in solitude and silence and being able to sort of
Anchor in there’s a knowing you sense The Knowing within was there a process that you we talk about this being in silence right totally agree with you and and yes that’s where the do is open how
Did you get there what were some of the things that you were able to do to enter that silence in within yourself well I there’s there’s the sort of you know the the the growth of it um
Well that’s Perpetual right I’m learning even more as as I’m at this stage because I was taught early this idea of really being able to um to be still to meditate to have times of Silence it was a part
Of my practice from very young um as a result I always felt like I heard God’s voice if you might call it that whatever that means that that deep within knowledge however I didn’t really think
Of it as a thing because it was I didn’t really put it together as it being a I just thought of it more as a religious thing than necessarily uh me needing to sort of have the knowledge but I
Think um a few years probably in my early my late 20s early 30s when I think it’s a good time when people I’ve noticed um when people have sort of done everything that they are supposed to do in
Their 20s they’ve checked all the boxes so then their late 20s early 30s is when I noticed that people begin to like well I’ve done everything I’m supposed to do and uh this isn’t really working
And then you have the opportunity to then begin to to explore what what’s the next so I I went through that sort of thing i’ finished law school I’d done a great you know had a very prestigious
Fellowship the whole thing and then I began sort of feel like is that same sensation and is this all there is again right you know right right right but you know it’s interesting you say
That the view right you kind of begin to bring your head up um in 75 when I had 1975 when I had my Awakening I had the blessing of being able to talk to a psychiatrist that you know my parents
Took me there because they were really concerned he really listened well and then explained to me you know you’re not crazy you’ve had a spiritual awakening why so young I’m not sure most people
Don’t have it till their mid 40s if they ever do was his response to me and it got me thinking okay you know at that point I didn’t really care but in my mid-40s like oh I see what he meant now because
You’ve the same thing that you’re talking about only it’s more of the end of corporate career uh empty nesters that kind of thing where all of those duties and responsibilities that you once had are now what do I do next what are they yeah you know really do think these moments in time
Are are are gifted to us to shake things up and to allow us to take um to take account um and I and and so that’s one I really do think that’s why I really you obviously there’s no real destination
Per se it’s perpetual growth I mean because even every every week There’s a new there’s a new um for me you know every week every other week There’s a new understanding that I that I get
Around my connection to to Spirit and to God but I I think though that these big big moments when there’s big shifts you know coming out of your 20s definitely in your mid-40s other stages in life where you have you’re a little forced to confront because they’re big shifts right and
You reevaluate they we’re having big shifts every day right there’s if we are aware we we’re actually having shifts on a regular basis and we can use those moments they don’t have to be like you know massive earthquake you know what is it right whatever RoR scale 8 point whatever on
The RoR scale it can be a little bit of shaking a little bit of a Tremor but if we’re aware it brings us closer closer to to to that spiritual space so I I found over time that I I definitely
Did a thing you know you’re asking about like when did I begin to solidify this concept of silence and Solitude and when at that moment when I really was like okay I’ve gone down to a to a dark space
I’ve done everything I’m supposed to do I have this prestigious career what is the next thing I don’t feel fulfilled and it forced me to really um dive into what it meant for me to really exist in
This world and on the planet and and I think that was when I sort of started reading what a lot of you know sort of ancient texts around what people what people behind before me were doing to connect
More and that’s when I began to realize what I had been taught very early on as a young child around meditating and being still was actually ancient practices around connecting and that’s how I began to to make that an important part of my practice that that’s amazing and quite a wonderful
Journey too I I had a very similar coming out of my Awakening one of the first collections I read was the vadas and I was brought up in a Christian home I was in deay um my parents were were pretty
Devout and dad was also a 32nd degree Mason so I had all of these value systems in place and and live in them and yet and having read the Bible a number of times and it seemed like the philosophy
Presented in the vadas which was were all Divine threads of this unitive Consciousness in incarnate with the capacity of becoming God right not the big G right yeah and even and you know even Jesus was quoted as saying so as well and then in the Book of Revelation it talks about God dwelling
In man well this is kind of all the same thing so why do we have so many different striations or delineations of that same philosophy can we just find that and maybe a core of the essence
Of of loving and being loved in that place because that’s really what the I think the the net goal is right is to have that connection and it’s to love and that’s where it is yeah how did did that come
About would you agree with that first of all I I I think that I think that we’re all very much um spirits and we’re all having this interestingly um unique Human Experience and I think that um
We are we are Divine we are of God because we are we’re from God and we are of God I think though this idea of you know can we all kind of you know get along this concept I I don’t know I I think
Based on if we are having a human experience then everyone’s um Human Experience is so very different and deping we need to allow for it all right I think that’s where you know the uniqueness of everyone’s experiences and how people explain it I think in the end though I think in the end
Though I think i’ love for people to just you know my my hope is that it doesn’t have to be defined in a certain way but that we all are able to connect to the Divinity within so that we can
Um I don’t I don’t know really to what extent you know to what extent that looks like but I do know that there’s a lot of hurt and a lot of um Brokenness in the world thatum caused for that
Is um caused by a lack of understanding of One’s Own worth and one’s own connection to God that if if if one could understand just how much they are connected to God in a real meaningful way
I think some of that hurt some some of the hurt would would would would would be addressed some of the pain that people cause others would also diminish because I think people do things you know hurt people hurt people and if you could begin to have who are healed then they wouldn’t
Be hurting others so I think as a whole it’s a it’s it would be great I’m not saying that I think everyone needs to believe the same thing or how you know the interpret it the same way because
Everyone’s experience is different but I do think there is something core and I do believe we’re all very connected connected to the Divine in a way I think where you’re leading with that is to have a life of compassion and kindness toward one another as opposed to the aggravation right the the bias
And the Prejudice that exists to for self and others you know because I think so but it’s very difficult to have people I I realized that even the other day I I was um this this um this
Concept came to me where [Music] um my you know I don’t even know how it started coming into my mind said I was spending some time um in devotion and it was this this really the thought was like
My body is my home and my body is my home and so that that I kind of became repeating and it was something that I hadn’t really thought about and I hadn’t realized that I had actually almost
Disembodied a bit from the con like I I myself had abandoned my own body because I was still very living external and this is why I always say it’s not a destination it’s our continual
Journey of growth whereas I’ve done a great deal of connection with God and I’m not at all you know but when that came to me I’m like well that’s an interesting thought that I even know that I didn’t
Have that thought and when I began to sink into that thought of my body being my home that was the message that I needed to embody for myself I began realizing I began Loving Feeling more peace within
I began loving myself more I began the sort of messages around um any some of the messages that were coming through me that I that I would always have to sort of fight against they began to subdue
Just with that belief so if you think about the idea of how much we dislike ourselves because we don’t recognize our own connection to God our own Divinity then it’s easy for people to be upset to to hate themselves or to dislike themselves or be disconnected with oneself and then when you
Feel that way some people internalize that and some people externalize that and so you have the externalization of the feeling of not being connected to with oneself not recognizing their own Divinity and that’s where you know anger comes in you know even just the idea of not being
Able to be compassionate or being empathetic because if you can’t be compassionate with on self because you’re disconnected right so it’s impossible to be fully that way with another with another person yeah and and so I really think it’s really about if I really have a desire for people
To really recognize their own Divinity their own connection to God their own reality that there is no lack there is no separation between them and God and once you kind of realize that then you’re like well then why am I upset about anything really or why am I angry at anyone
Or why am I mistreating others because I’m okay yeah you know when you were talking about being in the ocean and having that voice not your own kind of give you this right that that to me was part of the whole notion of cosmic Consciousness condensing into form there’s a higher self that
We are that is that translator or transmitter or even transceiver if you will as that um navigation and personal evolution is taking Place yeah it doesn’t make it necessarily any less um spooky in in some ways right because you begin to have experiences that are beyond what you are used to
And yet invite you to acques to them because the empathic resonance that you have with them right there’s this I think we know right we we we know we know deep down all of us know who we really
Are um it’s the fact that we have we’re born in a world where we’re it’s just it’s kind of covered up and and and other things have prioritized other pieces of knowledge are prioritized and
So you kind of just you know put everything and this is a great story that I that I read in um a book by John eldr he talks about the the sea turtle the the sea lion or the sea turtle or sea
I think it’s a sea lion and the sea lion somehow the story starts where he’s in the middle of the desert and you’re like well why is a sea lion in the middle of the desert and the sea lion at night
He he dreams and and and hears the ocean it when it’s quiet but in the middle of the day there’s this heat and you know he’s just trying to you know deal with this dryness and he doesn’t really
Know where he’s from he’s not connected to where he really who he really is and where he’s from and he spends all this time he meets a different a couple different characters along his way and
Some are just saying you know figure out how to make it work you this is life for you you live in the desert make it work so he found like a little hole that had like a little tiny bit of water had
A a little bit of a a stoop that he could kind of sit along and look look above and and he was like that’s home for him because that’s the closest he could get and and but yet every night he just
He hears the ocean in his head and he and he knows and he Longs for something more and at some point he begins to realize he like one night he had the biggest dream where he he saw himself
In the ocean with other sea lions and other um you know uh fish and whatever folks that live in the ocean and he woke up that morning morning with a little tear in his eye and he says I’m
Heading back to the ocean he doesn’t know where it is all he knows is he belongs there and he’s gonna head he’s heading there and I think that’s often times what we do we don’t really we we deep
Down inside know that I mean I think every human has to know that this is not it right that that this sort of sense of being disconnected from each other and disconnected from what is god um
Is not it but but it’s the idea of how to get there and that’s where Stillness silence being able to be in solitude allowing oneself and even not not being afraid to allow for one’s
Spiritual sense to to take over a bit to connect right now we in our pre-show warm-up you know I mentioned that we basically live half inside and half outside and that we’ve got caught up in the
Outer which is fine but we’ve forgotten the inner we’re kind of bereft of how to get there what it’s all about and then from that place connecting to the outer which is what your sealine story was indicative of right going within in that dream state in that world within realizing that oh
That’s really home yes well how do I find that in the outer and then you you basically create the outer I think there was a guy one time that said make the without as the within without as
Within yeah yeah yeah yeah so it’s the same we’ve heard this for Millennia yeah and now we’ve got the opportunity you know especially with Quantum Sciences now revealing that yeah we’re all energy so we scientifically now we are all energy so and what’s got energy it’s everything right there’s a
Infinite Consciousness infinite intelligence that is accessible that is individuated specifically for each one of us because we’re not you know just the ubiquitous one size fits all right we each have our own specific I like to call it perfected form fit and function in the world
We just haven’t been aware of how to actually seek that now we understand it’s seems would you agree that we’re learning how to bring all of these skill sets that we’ve developed along with that internal understanding and then kind of change in the the scene in the outer world with a different
Kind of application of our skill sets toward that compassion and kindness Persona and looking for others doing the same yeah that to be where we I I do think you know um Dr King had a quote he says
You know the Arc of the moral universe is long but it bends towards Justice it’s obviously it’s a different we’re talking about two different you know things when he when Hees that quote First what we’re talking about but I do think that um The Arc of anything is pretty long but
It usually bends towards what is truth um and you know over time you know you know you you’ve lived a bit longer than I have but I’ve I’ve lived enough that I’ve been able to see patterns um
You know it’s hard to see patterns when you’re 10 years old because well you know you haven’t lived enough right you know you’re 20 you’re like I see a little bit of patterns but it’s still not enough
But I think I I what I have observed um around this is that humans are perpetually and always way because we all know humans are always perpetually trying to find what is true and and what is their
True identity um I think that there’s language now that is mainstream that wasn’t once was and people can now kind of begin to feel comfortable um understanding concepts and using language to describe what it is that they have known to be true for a while or things that they didn’t know
To be true but got a sense that maybe that was true um and I think that is a good sign that we are um that people are are more talking about this but just like anything in humanity I
Have found that there is this um one a when new language pops up when new understandings come pop up there is always a kind of twisting of it and a misunderstanding of it that then makes there to be
Additional confusion and I think that that is also happening at the same time now then um so you see some folks who recognize that this could be true this is I really do feel like I am connected to my
Divine but then you know there are folks who maybe be like well what it really means we’re going to twist it to something else and so I I do think to your point that um in my lifetime I’ve this has
Been uh a good time where I see people are finally have language to describe what it is that they’re seeking a Common Thread the of understanding that has a similar language and similar meaning that kind of ripples throughout the thought mosphere if you will yeah I think that’s probably a fear
Statement and but at the same time I think you know we cannot I you know I guess on some level yes it you if you look back at kind of say you know the Dark Ages and compare it to now um it’s
A different vibe I would assume I wasn’t there but you know based on what history tells us right um um at the same time my my hope is for there it you know if you think about Christianity you know
Christianity was just some of the one of the best things that kind of popped up at a certain time this idea that all men are equal that um you know we can connect to God and mean that we don’t need
To have a middleman all these different things and yet you know humans really kind of distorted that whole thing oh yeah we put everything into organizational structures manage them all right well and then there were some folks who were not so not so did not have great U motives and wanted
To use it yeah they weren’t good managerial material right they didn’t want you wanted to use the religion to suppress people which were able to do for a long time and still do um so I
Think as we begin to have these convers as people begin to be on their Journeys and then people are having a language around it it can also be it’s important for folks not to um allow for this time
To then be rooted in a way to you know manipul manipulate people or let make people feel badly for not moving faster than or not understanding or not going along with it or use it for other
Means so I do think that it’s a good time it’s it’s a it’s always a good time the arc is long and it moves towards goodness at the same time I do think that um we have to always be aware of
How we are understanding it for our own selves and recognizing that we all are a Divine so you can it can be individualized but it’s great if there can be a larger movement to towards good right and now
You mentioned patterns I love that you brought them up because we’re all kind of cognitive science scientists right we’re always looking for patterns and and that’s how we find our way what’s consistent in how we Bea behave how the world responds to that behavior and how others are
Engaged in that as well do you find that there’s a a consistency in how we are kind of reframing the challenges I guess specifically what I what I want to ask is do you see that there is a a
Pattern of what you have strong feelings bias preice toward that you find yourself in that place the opposite of where you were what you holding judgment toward you end up finding your place in that or finding yourself in that place to experience the other side of it you find that that
You know it’s kind of a karmic thing I guess or um you wanna you want to explain that a bit more just want to make sure I’m clear on the question sure so if I hold um judgment toward how a person is
Or what they’re doing uh or something that they have done then at some point in the near future I’m going to be on the clip side of that I’m going to be in that place and have a whole different
Perspective of what it’s like to be there in order to develop the compassion for it as a as an evolving being because if you don’t it’s hard to have the compassion for the other person if you’re
Not experiencing something relative to that does that make sense yeah no I hear your point I’m in a lot of opportunities in life and where um you know not not at this stage of my life so much as when I
Was probably um in my 20s and early 30s because I was beginning because I I had a great deal of of judgment towards there was a way of being a way of doing there’s a way of existing that I thought was
Was the way and so I had some some firm very very very very firm beliefs around how someone should should be um and during those during those years I had plenty of opportunities to be on the flip side
And be able to sort of see oh wait and I think that’s the thing about life life will I don’t I don’t really call it humble you but life gives you opportunities to really become more compassionate over time because you just realize your own Humanity um I think when you’re young you can
You can um have certain ideals which I think are are great because that you know we something um to believe in but then you begin to see life show up and you’re like oh gosh I never thought I’d ever
Be in that position um and then you begin to have a bit more compassion for people um so yeah I it’s it’s I mean I I could list a significant number of things that once I was like you know I would never
You know right right right now you’re like now you’re like oh I I totally understand understand why they’re like that I mean I don’t and and and I think too when you when you’re when your people
Like well I don’t want to lose I don’t want to lose the things that I think are you know are good or bad or you know whatever I don’t think that’s really what happens I think it’s it’s not about
Losing your own moral compass it’s about just understanding how someone could behave a certain way or do a certain thing and while you don’t necessarily think the way what they did was a good
Thing but you can understand why they did it or how they did it or or what brought them to doing it and that or understanding their own woundedness yeah in their in yeah reasons why right you can
You and and and it doesn’t mean that you’re saying well then it’s okay for them to have done that but it does allow for you to to understand to to be to be compassionate um well at that point there’s no
Real there’s still no judgment hopefully toward that what there is is greater understanding as to why yeah which opens door for the compassion I agree I agree now I do think there are some things
That can still be you can still say um this is not a behavior that we as humans should be yeah like killing people because killing people is wrong yeah right so there’s there’s a couple of
Things that fall in line with that and you’re like yeah no we shouldn’t be doing that that that’s not something that we want to encourage that’s not a behavior we want to encourage at the same time you can understand why someone would be driven to that whether it’s the woundedness whether it’s hurt
Whether it’s just you know whatever the thing is you can kind of be and be like I could see where they do that still not condoning that yeah well and we haven’t had the systems for the um
Um rehabilitate for the habilitation of those who are in those places we haven’t had the bandwidth in our service delivery to actually nurture those into Better Health it’s that privatization of the penal system and the profit in that that lessens that desire to actually have those systems to
Rehabilitate and put people back into especially with victim’s crimes and things of that nature to put people back into a productive lifestyle and you know what else what I think is really interesting and very cool so my my undergrad is in Psychology and um I’m really always been
Quite um really interested in what it you know mental health and how we are going about it and I myself have you know of course done my own um work I’ve you know had a therapist and so forth
However there is this interesting movement within this but but for for a long time though mental health was very um individualizes this concept of you have trauma or you have something right and it was DSM driven and and we’re going to fix this but I think there’s a movement now in the mental
Health field where there’s a recognition that there are some things that are showing up that um particularly um anxiety is one of those that is really showing up and suicide where this idea of it’s not the individual it’s not an individual um problem this is a human human reaction to a
Larger issue in society and I think that is really quite um that movement towards um Rec I me because there are still illnesses there’s still issues that are very spe um individualized now I I must admit me saying that as not as not someone who’s professionally in the field but just because I’ve
You know being been adjacent to it um I you know I could be stuck U to that idea simply because I I still want to feel like there’s individualized treatments however so you know that that could
Be a thing however recognizing my own bias but I do think that there is something to be said for there is a a a systemic um issue societally that is causing people to feel anxiety or it’s causing
People to feel suicidal or is causing people to feel whatever the thing is that’s um not serving um them them or Society well is it mental health that issue is it mental health or is it really
Emotional health and we’re trying to deal with things going on in the mind and it’s really got nothing to do with the mind it has to do with our emotions and how you know on the one hand you know
The 70,000 thoughts we have a day probably half or better are all self-deprecating well why how do we manage that how do we tune in to others and help them monitor their own thinking so that that
Emotional sense of not of being less than has the opportunity to rise up and at least feeling equal to if in some cases more than right when you have specific things and I think it could be I
I think that it could be emotional health it can be mental health it could be a mix of both I do think that I’m really pleased to see that um there has been a movement towards not only people being
Willing like the destigmatization of being able to get help and also that there is a recognition that some of these things very well could not be individual pathologies but really be a systemic thing and that I think is a movement towards good things totally agree and and as I mentioned
Earlier you know it used to be DSM driven whether it’s four or five or whatever the number is today and for my own experience one psychologist I saw gave me a total you know Spiritual Awakening my
Advice to you is don’t talk to anybody because they’re not gonna understand you and then I had an experience where um my parents decided that it was that I needed to be institutionalized for a bit because I could not stop talking about this experience and and I put myself in a precarious
Place I bought a couple of sets of drums put him in my dorm room and had to move out of the dorm in middle of winter right didn’t tell him about it and ended up getting beat up at a frat house
Ended up the emergency room and it was like okay we need to give him a break so in that though the psychiatrist that I talked to came straight from the DSM 4 at the time and labeled me and drugged
Me and did not try to understand me in one aspect of what I was attempting to explain to him as my story is what was going on with me there was this oh that’s wrong you’re this and we need
To treat you with that and you know and then hopefully you’ll have that will help you and it wasn’t until I actually told the doc what he wanted to hear instead of what I wanted to share
Because I thought he was there for me right he wasn’t there for me I was there for him and so I told him what he wanted to hear and all of a sudden miracle cure yeah and then they start
Weeding me off the drugs and gradually release me well that’s a far different story today because people are recognizing that yeah there is this internal connection that people have that isn’t necessarily or hasn’t been addressed in the outer World appropriately so that this nurturing can
Take place so that people can actually connect with God and feel comfortable with what happens as a result rather than feeling diminished by it yeah yeah and I think that’s what you’re talking about in in this movement of becoming more aware of that individuality and our own expression and
Connection of it yeah yeah so how do you see that evolving into the the workplace and and into um organizations and for instance even from a leadership perspective well you know I will tell this that um there are companies are now investing a great deal of resources into things that in the
Past were not even would not even pass mustard um if you had a conversation um you know obviously there’s sort of the performative wellness stuff you know oh we got yoga blah blah blah but there’s also um lots of large particularly large corporations that have the budgets and obvious
Obviously have a large portion of the employee base that are working for them are you know really starting to provide opportunities for folks to have these types of conversations around what does it mean to be authentic and what does it mean to be um to lead authentically what does it mean for
People to have emotional well-being and mental wellbeing without it just being a performative conversation um and so I do think that um in the future like we don’t really know right again back to that Arc being we are coming out of a global kurer fuffle and redesigning or reimagining like
Dennis Paka says we’re reimagining Humanity now how do we want us to be what do we want the future to look like and what do we need it to look like for and I I do think that I
Do think it’s difficult hold I I think every every step every every inch towards something is a good thing I think that it it is a a long Arc as we’ve talked about and as a result we’ll see how long it
Might take for there to be a a significant push a significant shift what I have seen um around leaders particularly you know you the folks that I work with which are owners and founders of of of of businesses they themselves are recognizing that they cannot um they cannot you know do business as
Usual because their own for their own sake they’re having a difficult time if they ignore their own inner worlds then then they begin to burn out and they aren’t able to to continue so they they do have to force themselves to um address their own inner worlds and then they recognize that the
Generation of folks that are coming into the work workplace now um they are expecting and demanding that there be spaces for their to for um health emotional health spiritual health and so they are having to then also invest in that as well and I think that that’s a good sign you know will
There be a a you know a a sort of a hosing down of it a cooling down of it I don’t know but I will say this that anytime there is there are a large number of people talking about a concept then it
Has some legs and that to me is better than not AB absolutely and and we each contribute that one of I just published my 31st title on Amazon and it is called the navig it’s called navigating holistic growth the servant leaders guide so in this holistic sense not just for Body Mind Spirit
Planet okay we’re all connected you know we are the Earth that’s where we get all our nutrients from however we receive those they come from the earth that’s what our body is it’s of the earth and then we have this indwelling Consciousness that’s from someplace else that combines and so
Why is that so distant in our understanding and cognition of in how we’re moving forward together because that seems to be a growing concern right how do we connect not only to ourselves but how
Do we connect to the cosmos who are we really how many dimensions are we on you know and and what does this mean in the electromagnetic spectrum what’s the bandwidth what’s on each one of those
Regions and there are some uh there’s a theory of everything that uh Vernon nepi and or Edward close put out in 2010 called the triatic dimensional distinction vertical Paradigm and that’s a weird you know long elongated name however what they say simply is that Consciousness space and time are
Tethered across nine dimensions of Consciousness so or in that doesn’t eliminate other dimensions just that we have that’s the bandwidth for The Human Experience so there are reflections of that same system throughout so that’s nine levels there talk about pattern recog ition right so this is
One of those tangents I love to go off on if I can just have a moment there’s spiral Dynamics nine levels of it there’s a multi-plane awareness technique that’s actually a an experiential journey of those nine planes for an individual so all of these things have this correlation
It’s like they Dove tail together they’re saying the same things from different perspectives one is totally science-based the other on the opposite end the multi- level or multiplan um awareness is an experientially based one so these spiritual spirituality and science are bridging finally and
We’re able to have perhaps a common language in those to bring us to a greater understanding and ability to evolve more intelligently than we have previously and that the Educational Systems also begin to incorporate that because we’ve not had that today we’ve been focusing on putting people
In jobs oh yeah yeah and that’s not a bad thing that’s just that’s another discussion for another day on the concept of of you know what we are you know what is the future of Education what is the
Role of it and what are we supposed to be doing with it and I do think that um this you know I was talking to a good friend of mine who’s in education and I was like you know I said I’m
Surprised that these conversations haven’t spilled into the everyday preons as of yet um and I guess a part of it is because we’re still just trying to understand you know the world we live in as you
Know as it is today but I do think that you know there is something to be said around what what’s the purpose of of Education like what we want it to what we want it to be well the word educate
Means to draw out so there’s got to be something inside to draw out right why do we start looking there and actually educate yeah rather than you know input all the data and just want the regurgitation of it for specifications right yeah that’s fair I think that’s very fair so in the and
This all wraps together this is all part of that I call it an EVO leap in humanity of seeking that higher intelligence of understanding ourselves others how the world Works what is natural order
And how do we step into that how do we align with who we really are in the natural sequence of our own evolutionary path not as as an individual and collectively yeah yeah yeah and then how do you
See this in your work how do you see this evolving and spilling out in into society from the efforts that you have which are tremendous by the way I say that the the biggest thing um for me as I see
As I observe um and I work with business owners to build their businesses is that um there are a number of this individuals that at some point um didn’t see themselves as being able to build a business or to build a business that could scale because they never really thought of themselves
As anything more than an employee and um and you know employee that had leadership skills but still an employee I think what you see happening now this is a humongous uh like a explosion of um women-owned businesses um businesses of people of color um people who wouldn’t necessarily
Have maybe they might have had a business but they thought it was just going to be a small M and Pop shop but now they realize oh wait I can actually I can scale this has yeah you know scale
I think that’s where you see that kind of owning oneself because I think in the end if you begin to think that you’re infinite then you think you’re infinite so and infinite doesn’t mean it doesn’t have patterns structure procedures processes and everything is a process you just have to
Be willing to figure out what ask the right questions right to expose what that process is for each of those things and all the answers are there you just got to ask the right questions for
The answers to pop up or to come from within and as you mentioned I I think that you know in the end if you can get people to if people do begin to believe that they are infinite then they start
Thinking big and thinking about Big Ideas and and that’s what I that’s what I love that’s what gets me excited that’s what I wake up in the morning every day and just like how and with your business
Consulting you see those incremental steps right if wow if I can do this what else can I do right each of those I think it starts from I think it starts from the top to the bottom so it’s what’s
The big idea and how does that align what does that big idea align with one’s life um and so whatever the big idea is it must align with one’s life vision and if you have one life life vision
That also is is is in line and aligned with one’s sense of being Divine then you have a different um sure sure where most of what the entrepreneurial you got a big idea and then you begin to kind of
Make it create strategy around achieving that and as you keep going down the funnel you know you begin to sort of see um on a regular you know inch inch by inch basis what is what does a 15year
Goal look like what does a one-year goal look like what is some strategic uh objetive look like what is you know tactics look like how do you measure how do you create kpis around and it just goes
Down but in the end it’s really about the big idea if you can have a because I mean Big Ideas are the only that really inspire people sure and the vision mission and then you’ve got to follow
Through with the culture that you create in the organization to fulfill that yes you do um and and you know a lot of the work that I do with people is just really being able to create strategy being
Able to be able to figure out how then you execute that at the end but um I think you’re asking about how does this concept of you know being connect with the Divine how is it playing out in in in
The work that I do it’s the idea of more people showing up starting businesses that scale and have bigger ideas like expanding the ideas and being able to uh decide I’m going to scale I’m
Going to be infinite in the way that I operate right think that’s how it shows up very cool in your Explorations what have you found that would be most worthy to share with others as far as the
Little details um being able to find a way on a daily basis to move into that connected space I think you just have to have a practice obviously there’s many different ways that people um have
Done that over the you know Humanity’s existence um I do think though in this day and age because of the noise one needs to find a have a practice that includes silence and Solitude just because I don’t think you can you can’t compete with that we just develop a practice perhaps right
Because most of us are pushed and pulled by what we perceive the needs and wants are that around us and attempting to fulfill those instead of and that’s being you know sucked into the outer world and feeling like a leaf in the wind sometimes so how do youer practice developing a practice
Can because I I think there’s there’s trendy and then there’s what works for you so you know some people feel like you know their yoga their yoga practice is works for them and that might be good
For you um but it might not work for you and if it’s not you know there’s so many people I I do find now more than ever and I think I don’t know if it’s because of folks that are sort of raised
On social media versus those of us that had an existence before social media but um even within the spiritual space and even within the sort of understanding your own Divine s space there’s a there’s almost an uh inability to decide what works for you and I think so if other people
Are doing it then that’s what should work for for me so I’m going to do that my my point more prescriptive rather than um emotive or or because I mean we all we all are different we’re all are
So very unique and so my point is try very these practices are not new they’ve been around since Millennia so try various different things that might work for you to develop and to implement
Into your life so if meditation is not it for you the meditation is not it for you right um my point though is because the world’s a bit noisy and there are messages that are constantly sort
Of being thrown at you and pulling you I think involving a practice where you are silent and they have some Solitude would be a good idea that would that you could include that in your practice and and so just because I feel that it’s difficult to kind of hear the internal and to
Connect to the internal because it’s such a noisy world but whatever um practices work do that and you will know when you are getting more connected because you’ll feel the shift within you it’s not like you’re going to be like I don’t know if I’m connecting or not you’ll realize it you’ll know
It um and and just you know develop a practice I would also say too you know if you haven’t started the process of healing um start a practice of healing you know whether it means that you and whatever modalities again work for you may talk therapy works for you maybe it doesn’t whatever
It looks like for you do that I do think that it I think most people it’s very difficult for most people to live in this world and not to you know to not have some uh trauma but that needs
Some amount of healing some in in processing so do that be good to yourself do that um and then develop a practice that keeps you you perpetually connecting to the Divine whatever that looks like as well now would you advise to actually look for these things or to sit with your desire of
Them showing up and then be aware of when they do well that’s a really good question you know I do believe that when the student is ready the teacher does appear however I think that sometimes
Depending on you know how people are you know I know how how I am and um you know the more I read and understand and and seek knowledge the more I’m able to like oh okay I’m going to try this
Or this works or something like that but for but if you decide that this is where you want to go if you sort of make an intention to be able look I’m ready to really connect with my Divine then
You know obviously I think the things pop up and show up for you because you’re like wait I had no idea I was walking on the street and I saw a bookstore and then there’s this big book that I
You know it’s been around forever and you’re like oh wait there you go um you find there in is the evidence of how that works right and so when you begin to experience that how do you develop your
Your faith and trust in it well I think you don’t you don’t have to you know faith is one of those things you don’t have to have a whole bunch of it you know you just need to have a little bit
Of it and I think one deciding that hey you know what I think there might be a Divine that I need to connect to just even saying that alone is Faith right because you said a thing so I I think people
Say oh I don’t have enough Faith oh I don’t know about that you know it it’s about the each step moves you closer towards who you are because remember you know you are it’s not like you’re
Out there saying please I need you to come to me whatever the entity like it’s it’s within you you it’s already there you already know what it is it’s not like a thing you got to go out there
Trying to find the point is about the practices we don’t if we weren’t taught those things same things we weren’t taught leadership we have to learn leadership it’s the same thing of like what is learning what those practices are the practices mind you are not it’s it’s doing the practice is
Not the goal and I think a lot of people love be like oh you know I do this and I do that and I do that and they ritual the the practice is not the goal the practice is the tool that will get get
You connected to what is already true that you are a Divine being and you’re connected to God in a real meaningful way so it’s you know you’re not trying to be like oh what are all the things
And have a long you know you want to get a PhD on practices that’s not the goal here we just want to find a couple practices that work for you that will allow for you to to then be connected and and
Be able to get that path going and once you’re there then you know you keep you keep doing you keep you know keep the path going that’s all you need to sort of you keep cleaning the path that’s
All you really need to do we don’t want to over complicate the process but if you don’t know the practices if you didn’t grow up in a home where you know you’re kind of taught some different ways
If you’re never exposed to these things then of course you’re going to be like well I really don’t know what you guys are talking about so therefore going and reading and seeing what ancient folks
Did from Melia that helps that really does help it helps to put a language to it and we all are very different in the way that we show up in the world some people are much more intuitive others are
Much more logical some people are whatever however it works for you there’s no way of being spiritual it’s just decide what works for you and go for it awesome Ken this has been an awesome conversation
I thank you so much we went into the depths of how you perceive things and I really loved how you you presented that view and it really from my perspective provided a very simple way for our audience to understand that process and maybe make it available for themselves too so I really
App well thank you for having me Zen this has been a lovely conversation it’s not um often that you do get a chance to do that I interview quite a bit with on on many podcasts but this has definitely
Been one that’s been very unique and I am that horse of a different color you are that horse of a different color but it’s been lovely because do think for whoever is listening if you are on that
Journey to to connect if you know that something’s missing if you know that there’s more that you would like to to explore um to do it because then if you’re feeling that that’s something that you wanted that means that it’s seeking you absolutely and what you seek is seeking
You as well thank you once again and Namaste and in lak’ ech and thank you for sticking with us for this episode of one world new world I’m Zen Benfiel your host and I will see you next time
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