Good evening citizens of Portsmouth City staff invited guests and my colleagues on city council call to order the public work session for today and I would ask that all my colleagues that are present please note your presence electronically oh five members of city council are present thank you
Ma’am and Madam interim city manager are you ready yes sir you have the floor ma’am good evening everyone we’re going to start this evening’s Public Work session topics with uh the N the planning uh the DDC appeal from the Planning Commission um is Mr under would
Here oh yes sir yes sir please come up um and we can start the proceedings hi good evening uh my name is Timothy Underwood excuse me Mr Underwood welcome sir thank you for coming you have 10 minutes sir thank you thank you mayor uh good evening uh again my name is Tim
Underwood and I lead a nonprofit organization uh we are hope with love and we have a vision uh to provide affordable housing to two uh veteran families who have formerly experienced homelessness in the downtown uh we have uh gone through the planning process uh with the downtown design
Committee and the planning office and we have applied for a certificate of appropriateness uh which we were denied uh and we are here for an appeal uh I would just like to share uh upfront that we are appealing based on uh just the continuously uh I would say the stream of
Challenges that have evolved uh especially as it relates to a moving goal line uh the the the expectations that were Set uh have continuously been moved we would meet those expectations and then the goal line would move further creating a very negative experience for our nonprofit organization uh to obtain uh the
Approval to proceed I do also want to add uh that uh I was in this very chamber uh several weeks ago uh where the the chief of police was sharing uh really appealing for Solutions uh looking for solutions to reduce uh the crime here in Portsmouth and we firmly believe our nonprofit organization
Firmly believes point of order uh the speaker is talking about crime I I don’t think that’s the subject matter of what we’re discussing now sure I I can thank you thank you councilman Moody uh there is a point of order sir and when you’re speaking it’s recommended that you speak
Specific to the the the proposal that you’ve put forth you you bet mayor we’ll do okay Dr Whitaker you have the floor the challenge to what he was speaking to he wasn’t just speaking about crime in general I thought he was connecting crime to his project and how his project
Um somehow will help address the issue of crime so I think he was on point uh and should be allowed to continue his train of thought thank you sir I’ve already ruled on the point of order sir if you would continue we’ll do uh and
Just noted uh the uh as it relates to uh jobs and opportunities that businesses and nonprofits like ours bring to the city of Portsmouth the experience that we have personally had we could easily see would deter other businesses and nonprofits from wanting to serve in
Portsmouth uh I I will also share so my mother who is a retired Portsmouth public school teacher is the single reason that I am here and that I have not given up on this experience um I as I mentioned a second ago we uh have continuously had a goalpost uh that
Keeps keeps being moved uh I am more than happy to speak to that uh but I just want to share my two ask uh here today uh number one my ask is that our appeal be uh overturned uh that is number one and number two our ask is
That in addition to uh our appeal being overturned that the the leaders in this room uh grant our organization our nonprofit organization uh the ability uh to uh and the authority uh to provide pro bono technical assistance to the N uh to the different agencies that our nonprofit organization serves like we’ve
Successfully done with 30 communities where we’ve both identified and eliminated issues with taxpayer dollars uh so who does that include that includes the permit office uh the the planning office uh but but again we are asking as I mentioned for number one uh for our appeel to be over overturned and
Number two we are asking uh for the authority to provide technical assistance with improving the experience and how that would look I’m I’m happy to go in further detail uh but I just want to say very quickly uh as I mentioned and this will be the third and last time
That I say it uh the goalpost has continuously moved uh as as we have been working with the planning office and downtown design committee so to respect everyone’s time here um I would ask that I defer the remaining of my time to reply to the latest uh unmet expectations that the downtown design
Committee and the planning office will share with us this evening um so again I’ll defer to the leadership here but my request would be that I provide the yield the remainder of my time for efficiency to just reply uh to what they’ve identified this evening sir this this is your time to
Speak you don’t have to defer anything if my colleagues have any questions once your speaking time is over you have an opportunity to do that if you have something else you need to add we’re more than happy to allow for you to do that so I just wanted to make it clear
You don’t have to defer your time for us to ask questions there will be a Q&A period that that will will enable uh my colleagues to ask those questions of you thank you mayor and well understood uh and my point of just saying that is to
Get clear on what they will share this evening because as I’ve mentioned over the past year we’ve been working with these offices uh they would set expectations and they would continuously move so I would really surgically if okay with the leadership here like to uh leverage my time at the end to reply
Pinpoint to what they share sir this is this is not this is not a court room We’re not gonna have rebuttal back and forth that is not the purpose of this you as the applicant have your opportunity to present your case which you have done and you are allowed time
To do that once your time is up and questions are asked you will have an an opportunity to answer your questions have your questions answered then the Planning Commission will come up as we have asked them to come and present their position this this is not an
Opportunity where we go back and forth that that’s the process okay I just wanted to help you understand that Dr Whitaker you have the floor sir uh yes what’s your name again I’m sorry yes sir Timothy Underwood Mr Underwood yeah um this this is an appeal you’re bringing
And you’ve mentioned now on I believe three occasions that there was a moving of the gold post I think you should use your time to explain what you mean by this moving or the gold post because evidently you’re saying that there was some criteria that was there and then it was changed and
That’s I thought would be the basis of why you’re coming before us so I would advise you to use your time to explain what you mean by that absolutely and U permission to uh address those with a handout up front he will then distribute them to my
Colleagues so as that being passed out um I’ll share that there uh several tabs uh specifically there eight tabs uh we don’t have time to go through each of them uh but I I want to get very clear uh on the the timeline and TABC uh so if
You could please go to tab C uh so tab C really starts uh where it initiates uh our our Communications with the planning office uh and what’s what’s not mentioned here and I think this is very important uh for the leaders in this room to understand is that uh we uh met
With the planning office we had 65 interactions uh leading up to December 2nd so between September 26 and December 2nd we had nearly 65 interactions the majority of those were email server were calls uh during those requests expectations came out from the planning office those office they wanted to see
Schematics they wanted to see visuals so we hired an architectural firm we we hired uh in addition to that an engineering firm we we went in we provided them and what we provided them uh we were advised uh that we’re going to have to make some really expensive
Changes because we’re making more than 50% uh uh changes to the the structure we have to bring everything up to code uh So based on the cost from our architect and based on the input from our engineer uh we we identified Point Blank that this this is not feasible to proceed
It’s too costly uh so we we provided that uh and uh we have since been uh told that that was not enough so I I then went to uh the the week of Christmas we received a request uh two additional requests uh which we turned around as quickly and as much as we
Could uh leading up to this January meeting uh in early January we met with the downtown Town design committee uh frankly they were all over the place but the the the questions that they asked were valid so we we we addressed them as best as we could and we got back to them
And what they wanted uh we feel that we have addressed and then they’ve come back and they want more uh so uh and I I I say more uh as in uh we met what they said what they had identified was acceptable and that uh was achieved and then we provided
That and they they just kept asking and asking uh so at this point uh you know Bas as I shared on the uh just the constant goal moving uh and the the user experience we feel that there this is a hopeless a loss cause we cannot uh proceed without the support of this
Council is are you finished sir or do you are you open for questions now yes I’m open for questions okay yep councilman Moody sir you have the floor thank you mayor I don’t have a question but I would like to hear the other side
Of the uh story uh is uh that be city manager uh is somebody from planning can speak to this yes that will that will be after um after he’s he’s done presenting councilman hugle so you have the floor yeah thanks Mr Mayor so Mr under I’m
Going to try to help you uh the appeal that’s in front of us is you’ve asked to demolish the building and the downtown design committee has denied you permission to demolish the building right that is correct and that’s it you’ve asked to demolish the building they’ve said no reading through the
Package it appears that there was a lot of discussion about what you’re going to build behind this building which in my mind doesn’t have anything to do with do you demolish the building or not it appeared from the package that there really was only one thing that they
Asked for that I didn’t see you provide but you spoke to it just now and that’s the Architectural Review of the structure which you told them the Architectural Review was uh the structures in such bad condition that you it it’s not feasible to refurbish the structure hence your desire to tear
It down and start with a new structure all that’s we’re we’re tracking here that is correct okay so in in my mind um we we kind of got two choices tonight we can either approve you to demolish a building that’s falling down and that vagrant people have been habitating and
That you’ve been steadily getting compliance tickets written on because the building is fallen down and you’re trying not to spend money on a building that you simply want to tear down and it’s not a historical building and it’s not in the historical district of downtown and so that’s one option tear
The building down and solve all those problems and clear the deck so that you can move on to your next step which by the way you may still experience moving goalpost because the next step will be you got to submit the design in detail that satisfies the architectural requirements and all of
That that that you haven’t invested in yet because you haven’t gotten permission to tear the building down and I assume you’re waiting to tear the building down before you spend any more money to finalize the rest of the site plan and and details of the building uh
That would satisfy some of the other concerns that I saw the design committee was worried about terms of uh you know uh how the building is going to look in the midst of the neighborhood and all that all is that all all that still true that is true okay so that’s one
Choice we let you tear the building down the other choice is we say uh no we’re going to stick with what the design committee decided and we’re not going to let you tear the building down and I take it from the discussion that you had with the downtown design committee if
That were to happen then you would walk away from this we would still be stuck with a old house that’s falling down that has vagrants occasionally living in it uh and we’d be out looking for somebody else that uh wants to buy that home from you and and cross our fingers
That they decide it’s worth their while to invest the money to bring an old falling down building up to current code and that seems a little unlikely but the other thing that I think we have the opportunity to do in approving the demolition is to send the message that
We’re reasonable people and when reasonable people talk with reasonable people about doing things that help the city that we’re willing to listen and and be reasonable and so so I think that’s really what you’re asking from us tonight is can we be reasonable and let you demolish an old building that’s
Fallen down so that you can invest in the next phase which is building something that you’re going to live in and that uh offers an opportunity for a couple of homeless vet uh families or homeless vets to live in with you tracking tracking and I would just
Add one thing uh Admiral and that is you know we would also ask that we be given the authority to to provide technical assistance as I requested okay so so I I got that yeah that’s not on the docket tonight we’re we’re willing to talk about about process Improvement kind of
After the fact but let’s let’s stick to the main thing and the main thing that you’re here for tonight is to get permission to demolish the building sir that you currently own so that you can move on to your next step yes that’s 100% correct yes sir okay perfect that’s
It thanks mayor thank you sir are there any other questions from my colleagues on councel seeing none then thank you sir for your presentation and Madam Madam manager is uh the next presenter coming forward please okay if you could state your name and address sir my name is Nathan leay 310 Chandler
Harbor Drive Portsmouth Virginia 23701 I’m here as the representative from the downtown design Review Committee I’d like to speak briefly uh as to our Comm committee’s understanding and could you speak into the mic thank you I’d like to just speak briefly as to our committee’s understanding um as to
The process and uh why the decisions were made so um I’m not privy and neither is anyone on the committee to um the 65 or so interactions that may or may not have taken place with the planning department prior to the first uh time we saw this application um when the application was
Presented uh members of the committee felt that they didn’t have enough information available to make a decision to uh whether or not to approve the demolition of the building um unfortunately for the applicant uh in the time that he met with us versus the time he met with us
The second time we had some uh months where we didn’t have a quorum uh present and we had some things we ran into that delayed his application which is not an excuse and is very unfortunate and I think reflects kind of poorly on our committee that being
Said uh when he came back he had provided a lot more information than uh previous and uh it was indicated that there was a report from a structural engineer that specified that the building was fit for Demolition and and really not able to be occupied
Um I believe some of the members of the committee wanted to see the report versus just the word of mouth um with that in mind uh a motion was made by made in seconded by the committee to support the application for demolition um the two of us that voted
In support were the only two that that voted in support of that and the remainder of the committee um elected to vote against I believe that they’re reasoning and I don’t want to speak entirely for others to thought process but my understanding of the reasoning was they
Wanted to see that report and it was indicated to us that there was no longer any time left for another month to see the report and a decision needed to be made that day um so I think that’s why the motion and the vote
Came and I think that kind of sums it up and I’m happy to to answer any questions or attempt to answer any questions are there any questions from my colleagues on Council councilman hugle sir you have the floor yeah thanks Mr Mayor so so Mr
Lei you said you were one of the folks that voted to support have you visited this building um I I was uh someone who voted in support I don’t know that I stated that there were two of us did I’m sure that it’s in the minutes so thank you
For reading the package um know that that doesn’t always happen in some of these instances um trust me that happens we read what you send us well thanks yep um I have not visited the site I can I can tell you that uh the two of us that
Voted in support are probably in Allied professions that are similar to land PL planning and permitting and architecture and things like that yeah other members of the committee are not I remember these are volunteers um this is the first time in my four or five years that I feel like
We actually have a consistent Committee of people that show up for the meetings so others on the committee I believe have visited I I have not I I didn’t necessarily need to visit to understand the conditions okay thank you so so I did visit the building uh and W and with
The package to understand what Mr Underwood’s trying to do uh whe whether you had a copy of report or Word of Mouth from the architectural firm I think it’s pretty clear walk in the building that what he wants to do ain’t going to work with the building in the
Shape that it’s in without a substantial investment compared to the cost to tear the building down and and start fresh and so so I appreciate you you being here here and providing Clarity on how the discussion went uh at the downtown design committee um it did appear to me
That there was a fair amount of conversation around what was going to be built back and as I said in my earlier comments to Mr Underwood that’s part two of this discussion another approval process that that he’ll have to undergo to get from kind of the 40% floor plan
And and sketch to uh to finalize the uh permit ready uh plans that that I guess will have to be reviewed again to make sure that they’re consistent with the character of the neighborhood so so uh G given all that I think um I I didn’t see a whole lot of
Consternation about tearing the building down uh it seemed more like what’s going to get built back in place of the building as I said um some something Fresh’s got to be better than what’s there now um I think you’ve summed that up pretty accurately I I think that
Despite the fact that we were tasked to vote on the demolish of the building that you have people that do get hung up on the appearance of what is coming back um a lot of our members are residents of downtown and so they have that they’re
They’re tied to that you know as I mentioned I live in Green Lakes some on the other side of the city yeah um so I I think you’re right I think that maybe um decisions may have been voted on that were being dictated by things outside of the purview even though we understood
That the applicant would come back with with what he would like to to do um I think that’s where some of the issues may have Aris okay thank you thanks for your comments are there any other comments from my colleagues on councel thank you Mr Le thank you for your service too as
Well the City attorney has asked for the floor ma’am you have the floor before a motion is made I would like to just update Council that the question before you is whether the applicant is able to demolish the building that is what you would the motion would be about okay so make your
Motion is there any um is is there a motion on the floor so Mr Mayor I move that we approve Mr Underwood’s uh desire to demolish the building second is there any additional discussion on this item seeing none would you please vote electronically this item is adopted 5 60 to overturn the commission’s
Recommendation thank you all thank you all for your participation and Madam interim city manager ma’am you have the floor thank you mayor now we will start our the order for um collective bargaining uh our first speaker will be from the National Fire Fighters Union let me the name
Mr Mr Kevin OK Conor yes sir you have the floor thank you very much is the mic on the mic is on sir very good thank you uh my name is Kevin oconor uh I provided a PowerPoint slide deck which I think traces is history going back as far as
Jamestown so I’m going to try to summarize it at a higher level what I’d like to start with is a little bit of an introduction myself the organization that I’m representing today and a high level issue a high level discussion of the issue of collective bargaining generally public sector in
Here in Port Smith Virginia my background is I was a firefighter in Baltimore County Maryland for a number of years uh both labor and management I served as Chief of Staff to the fire chief and was also our local union president as my career progressed I started working for the International
Association of firefighters in Washington DC where uh I led their governmental Affairs Division and public policy in that capacity I was working with other organizations League of cities on grant funding I know you all in the past going for afg safer grants that was something I started lobbying
Back in in in the 90s uh I also served collectively with the International Association of Fire Chiefs chairing the Congressional Fire Service Institute so I’ve been dealing with these type of issues for a very very very long period of time the International Association of firefighters is very unique uh in terms
Of overall labor unions we’re an organization that essentially has almost a monopoly control of career firefighters in the MS across the country and we think that’s a very good thing when you think of other unions they’re very diverse they’re not everywhere our members are in every single Community both here in the
Commonwealth and across the country we have 343,000 members but most importantly they’re broken down into about 3700 affiliate chapters now what does that mean that means we’re part of the community we’re part of the fabric of the community our people live there they’re they’re vested in the success of
That Organization unionism for a lot of people and I recognize that I’m the chairman Scott’s uh congressional district means a lot of different things for the iff it’s collaboration wages are important certainly they are we are a labor union we believe our people should be treat fairly but more importantly
We’re a profession when you’re riding on highway you see that little red sticker on the back of somebody’s window it says I our people are proud of our organization every single person that ascends into management into fire service started as a firefighter there’s a fraternity of Brotherhood not un like
The military everyone has the same same focus and the same purpose collective bargaining is something that really legitimately allows us a seat at the table so I’d like to State you know Collective parain generally it means so many things to different people you think in the private sector of strikes
What’s going on now in Ford you think of Discord but in the public sector and specifically in the fire service that really isn’t what it’s about it’s about working together when you go to an International Association of Fire Chiefs conference either nationally or locally you’re going to see the leadership of
The iff and when you go to an iff conference you can pretty much count on one of the key noters is going to be someone from management why is that our common interest revolve around the safety of the community protecting life and properly and the safety of members
As I go through some examples a little bit later later on I will actually get into that a little bit further but what I’d like to do is basically define collective bargain it’s simple it’s just a process whereby management and labor sit down to discuss issues terms of employment and hopefully reach an
Agreement the Virginia law doesn’t mandate that an agreement ever has to be reached it just mandates that a process occurs a structured process that is collective bargain what I’d like to do is dispel some things that collective bargaining is not a lot of folks will say well collective bargaining right to
Work can’t coexist that’s just absolutely not accurate you look at States like Florida Mississippi Louisiana Wyoming Oklahoma Texas all right to work states all have various forms of collective bargaining Wyoming and Oklahoma two of the Reda States actually have full interest arbitration Statewide in Texas their laws very
Similar to what is being proposed well what passed in Virginia and what is operational now and that is the state essentially passing a statute allowing local option that’s how Texas has operated now for the last Dozen Years and Florida it’s Incorporated actually into their State’s Constitution so right
To work which Virginia has a long traditional right to work is not at all impacted by collective bargaining both empirically and in terms of practice it also doesn’t allow vote unions to be recognized through something called card check for folks at Federal Congressional legislation there was something years
Ago called the employee free choice act that unions people who just sign a card and instantly the unions recognize your state law makes it very clear that a process has to be established for an actual election so there is a process to do that and that’s Incorporated uh in
The state law does not mandate any outcomes you sit down at the table it mandates as I said it mandates a process not an outcome there are those who are going to suggest that it artificially inflates wages and I actually want to compliment the mayor and this Council
Your proposal I noted from uh the uh DAV Port uh slide deck slide four you’re offering a 7% pay raise next year for your employees in 2024 I can assure you I I’ve had access to contracts all over the country that’s not replicated in a lot of places even where there is
Collective bargaining I think the average wage increase Nationwide uh combined public and private sector is 4.8% in 2023 so the point is there can be a bit of there can be a bit a bit of an increase but it’s not dramatic a 7 point a 7% pay increase is legitimately with
Collective bargain or not that aspect of a contract is not going to increase mitol whether you have a bargain agreement or not and and I would thank you for doing that the same applies for with respect to bond ratings uh I can tell you I mentioned I’m from Baltimore County
We’ve had collective bargaining that jurisdiction since 1976 we’ve always maintained a AAA Bond rating there are a lot of factors there it certainly merits consideration we can provide data where jurisdictions have an equivalent or higher Bond rating uh to the city of Portsmith and actually be able to provide you where there’s Collective
Bargain what those Bond ratings are um so I don’t know if that was me um if we decided to move forward if the council and mayor decide to move forward how would it work in Virginia in the Commonwealth but more specifically how would it work here in Portsmith and the
Answer is absolutely any way that you wanted to work and that’s really the genius and the beauty of a statued $40 .1- 572 the legislation by Senator saof and delegate Guzman first it’s 100% local option all the state did was pass a law saying you can do it so Richmond’s
Not intervening the decisions are going to be here made in this room there’s no Statewide bureaucracy that is established it’s not some states like Florida where there’s a public safet or a public uh employment board you get to make the decisions here on how you want to address those issues um fiscal
Control one of the most important things about the Virginia Statute you have ultimate fiscal control you can have an outside entity come in and actually impact your budget you are the fiscal Watchdog yes you have to sit down at the table yes you will be able to come up
With an agreement that you can sign but you have the ability to say no you have the ability through the strings of the purse to make sure that whatever is offered is reasonable and in align with the priorities of this Council and this city um you also get to determine what
Actually is a bargaining unit it’s part of the statute that’s been proposed in most most cities where firefighters are representes from battalion chief down to Firefighters but you get to make that decision you also establish the scope of bargaining what are you going to bargain about can you bargain about safety can
You bargain about Staffing in some states where they have bargaining their Statewide pension systems so that issue is just written off the table because it’s not relevant again this is the one statute I’ve seen Nationwide that gives the absolute control uh to local government the Tim tables of bargaining the processes for
Settling disputes it all rests on your shoulders the enforcement mechanism there’s no Outsider coming in telling you uh that you need to do this um if you’re a fan of Jefferson democracy there’s nothing in terms of more local control than the way this law has been structured and I very much encourage you
To to look at it in that context what works here in Portsmith might not work in Rowan o and vice versa so what are the real advantages we’ve talked a little bit about your very generous 7% pay raise for firefighters the issue to us to us is health and safety we are
Involved collaboratively with management not just fire service management League of cities we’ve sponsored things there for Education uh public fire safety education we actually run programs for our members career and management on cancer testing we have 10,000 uh people in terms of if the people are in a crisis we have peer
Review teams established we train in Hazmat we mentioned the the uh Grant programs we do Hazmat wmd training we’re moving into Wildland training all of these things we do collaboratively we are very proud of our jobs as firefighters and that’s pretty much a universal element people don’t want to
Protect bad employees we want to elevate good employees and that’s something that be accomplished of pretty easily through the collective bargaining process um in The Proposal that uh is the council is considering lines 18 and 19 say and this kind of struck me it is a policy of the city to promote
Harmonious safe and Cooperative relationships with the employees that’s something legitimately that I think the legislation if an AC it would accomplish talk a little bit about the precise model of the if um we have a Labor Management initiative that’s been been uh talked about widely uh it was focused on the
National Association of counties at one point a lot of our local union leadership Ascend into manage EUR roles as chief of the fire department de Mo Omaha Baltimore Baltimore County Miami I could just keep naming them and the reason for that is where there’s a process and it’s done in terms of
Teamwork everybody’s working together everyone Rises to the top there there really aren’t teams there’s not clicks when it’s done appropriately it’s it’s better for everybody else uh again for us it’s really based on uh collaboration some of the advantages with the iff is because we are National in scope we work
With the organizations and providing GIS uh we just want to try to be doing the right thing for a membership and for the jurisdictions that uh that we serve the whole really is the the equal the sum of its parts management has a place labor has a Place elected officials have
The place Collective bargain is a Nexus that really kind of brings it all together so I’ll conclude with a question and I’m happy to answer any questions or refer to any pieces of the uh of the slide deck if you have specific questions but let me just let
Me just end with this and the question is why should you be granting firefighters Collective bargain here in Port Smith since the New Deal enacted the National Labor Relations Act in 1938 every single construction trades person who builds a fire station has the right to organize and bargain for wages every
Single machinist that puts their uh breathing apparatus together has had the right to organize and bargain for wages every textile worker that sews our garments together is able to organize and bargain for wages and if Factory workers that put our fire trucks together they too can organize a bargain
For wages the people who can’t are the ones living in an our house wearing that protective equipment wearing that breathing apparatus and riding the fire trucks and lifting their lives this is just asking for a seat at the table it’s not asking for anything Draconian it’s
Not looking to change the scope of a Labor Management it’s to create a seat at the table where it’s been done it’s been done successfully uh folks from managerial uh organizations like the Chiefs would certainly tested this it’s just giving people an opportunity and with that I’d be happy to answer any questions
Thank you sir well I I I uh I will go ahead um councilman Hugo you have the floor yeah thanks mayor uh so I didn’t catch your name sir Kevin OK Conor OK Conor okay Mr OK Conor thanks for for being here tonight and uh and sharing your perspective uh one of
The discussions that we have had around collective bargaining is and now talk specifically about the firefighters uh so you mentioned the the pending pay raise uh there we we’ve done pay compression pay raise we’ve we bought new apparatus we have uh uh corrected an issue with the heart and lung
Insurance so there’s a long list of things that have happened over the last uh year or so uh where we have heard the firefighters here and responded with action to to try to address things that that needed to be addressed and the question then is well okay so if we’ve address those things
What else does the firefighter Union think they need to benefit from collective bargaining why collective bargaining instead of just continuing the behavior that we’ve had over the past year can you give me that your opinion on that please I absolutely can I bet you can the the answer that is continuity when
You have a progressive Administration City or fire department uh cooperation can certainly be Eng gendered without collective bargaining there’s no question at all about that but what it doesn’t do is it doesn’t protect things and I’ll give you a success story of a native Virginia gentleman’s name is Adam
Teal uh Adam currently is the Philadelphia Fire commissioner before that he was a chief in Alexandria and he was Terry McCullough’s kind of emergency services coordinator on a Statewide basis he went up to Philadelphia they had problems up there uh with prior Fire Chiefs he went right in sat down with
The organization said we have a process here that you have with collective bargaining I want to sit down and I want to go over all these different things I can’t promise you we’re going to get it done but it built the engagement among the membership and they were able to
Make the change I won’t sit here and bore you with all of them but essentially if you all are able to put something in practice in the fire department you don’t know who the fire chief’s going to be in three years you don’t know who’s going to be sitting
Around this table all you have to do and I make a living Lobby in Congress is look at what’s going on up in Washington DC you want to make sure that the process exists past the people and that’s the purpose of the collective bargain agreement okay thank you for
That and then I I have kind of the reciprocal question to ask which is uh there’s an investment that the city will have to make to make this happen uh so so while we’ve done a lot of things and we we’re we’re you know investing in in the firefighters and in the police
Department um in the city staff with the with pay issues and whatnot uh there’s still an investment that that’s going to be required and there’s going to be push-ups required frankly on the management side to get in a position to do collective bargaining there’s staff that we’re going to have to hire to
Handle labor relations that isn’t in the city lineup card right now so so what do we what do what does the city get in return for that investment from your perspective well I will respond solely as it relates to the fire service okay I could make a case you know with respect
Respect to larger employee groups but but our business is fire from the perspective that I think you get from an investment return is you get immediately immediate engagement of not just the people sitting behind me but their successors you also have access to an entire network within the fabric of the
International Association of firefighters we work as much with Fire Chiefs on things in terms of going after grants in terms of getting training in terms of providing training uh just two weeks ago one of the things I I do uh as a service to to my community Baltimore
Is I serve as a fire commissioner non-compensated we lost two firefighters the I went in souped the nuts handled all the line of duty desks all the hotel Arrangements I mean it’s a value added I mean we operate as a family and that’s why I began my comments kind of trying
To differentiate a little bit between the if and private sector unions and even some other public sector unions that that are a bit more edgy I mean there’s a lot of value that we bring in terms of information when you legitimately have I think the Bureau of Labor Statistics says that we’re 91%
Organized of all corrup uh professional firefighters in the country you’re able to to Garner a lot of information a lot of positives that you can share um with jurisdictions here participatory yet okay thank you and and one last comment I’ll make the comment and then if you have a response you’re welcome
Too so my experience is right down the street here in the in the Naval Shipyard uh where I was in a collective bargaining Arrangement and had union workers working with me um safety was an issue there much as it is with the firefighters uh we decided that we
Wanted to apply for an OSHA star site through the voluntary Protection Program uh and it was interesting to me that OSHA required the labor leadership in the shipyard to sign up side by side with the management leadership in the shipyard to commit to making the environment a safer environment and so
Uh I I know from that experience uh the collaboration between labor and management uh is at least viewed by OSHA as critical to provide a safe working environment and I wondered if you’d like to add a comment sure we we have a Labor Management initiative we’re working
Jointly with the Chiefs now both in detecting cancers for firefighters mental health issues studying the impact which was a military issue as well posos and turnout clothing and all of it is trying to aggregate the knowledge resources and everything to try to move in the right direction I would also add
To Admiral is as I’m sure you’re aware uh the Navy firefighters are also represented uh and at most of the bases uh the the cooperation is extraordinary uh you know friends in Annapolis both fir side and and from the academy side uh it it works well I mean it just works
Well okay thank you thanks Mr Mayor Dr Whitaker you have the floor sh yes um Mr Conor thank you for the information um I was part of council when this issue uh came before us previously and um I’m still um not convinced of of the uh value of what uh
Your organization represents as far as unionizing the firefighters one one of the things and and I’m asking the questions too because I know that uh our citizens are listening and this has been a a very uh watched issue so one of the things that you presented particularly at the end of your um
Presentation was you listed several organizations s that have unionized uh the Garment workers um the um equipment workers and I noticed that each of those were private organizations and so therefore the issue in unionizing with private organizations is different than a public organization and and and the the issue
Particularly is is that as you know management and labor at the private sector uh particularly have competing interests um the incentives for management um to keep wages low so profits are high that’s that’s a major uh benefit and incentive uh that causes uh some tension between management and
Labor trying to uh cut cost uh for safety issues um to also uh hit the bottom line that’s not the issue that I see here um particularly and I can’t speak for all cities but I have not seen a devaluation of what fire fighters bring to the community to the to the extent
That you uh verified something that I needed to hear that confirms um in your conversation about the 7% rais which was done without collective bargaining so therefore why should we spend millions of dollars to put in place a system that the firefighters here are already getting the benefit of without
Collective bargaining um the other issue that I have is who becomes The Voice once unionization occurs and can you who who becomes The Voice first start with that that the end of it and then I’ll get back and try to to wrap the answer around it the leadership
Locally are the ones who interact with the council and the mayor you don’t have people coming in from out of town bargaining they have resources naturally but we believe very strongly it’s why we have the 3700 affiliate chapters that I mentioned that nobody knows their City Nobody Knows the elected officials and
Nobody knows the citizens better than the people on right and very different model right right that’s that’s the issue I want you to address at the local level who becomes the voice and and how is that voice determined well two-part answer that the voice is the local voice and
That is universal in our organization we have a concept called local autonomy right I can’t come from Washington DC where I work now to my old local and tell them what the bargain what’s important who they should support ever right it’s all done locally the membership elects their leadership and
Their leadership represents them for whatever period dat of terms appropriate so who is that membership it would be the well the membership of the union and the membership of a bargaining unit aren’t always the same thing you can have people who this Council may not choose to give representational rights
To Deputy Chiefs as an example but they can still freely join the union on their own valtion so the union membership the people who belong to the union are the ones who can vote that can differ a little bit between a bargaining unit okay so what about the those who are
Rees for example what about those who are are not a part of that Union and how is their voice represented their voice is represented uh they have every right to talk to the fire chief uh as you probably know the Janice decision they came down a couple years ago uh there is
No such thing as a closed shop in the public sector anymore Virginia they’re never has been right um we’ve had the state of Virginia ironically we’re in a district includes Pennsylvania Maryland West Virginia the largest number of unionized firefighters we have is in Virginia yeah so if I’m hearing you
Correctly then you have one voice that’s being represented by the union which um circumvent the fire chief and deals with counsel no not circumvent I would I would suggest it augments them but you also have you say you would suggest what that it it augments the voice of fire
Chief it offers a different perspective yeah well there there are some there are some that differ with what you just stated but as far as the um voice of the majority that would be the voice what about the voice of the minority in cities like Atlanta for example Baltimore they Affinity organizations
For African-American firefighters female firefighters all of which can raise their issues uh with the politicians and with the fire chief right uh there’s an organization called women in fire service which again one of the differentiations between the if and other unions we Embrace those organizations we partner with them but
When it comes to whose voice is being recognized that becomes the the unionized voice that barain that is correct right and so you can embrace all you want those organizations the bottom line is what the law is going to dictate as far as who gets represented and so
When when I see this type of arrangement to me I see a suppression of the minority vote which has been historical and so I I don’t see anything that has been presented that would change that uh otherwise and and so I’m I’m just um saying that for a city like Portsmith to
Invest the amount in the millions of dollars that it would take to do this uh at the expense of uh minority groups losing their voice uh also uh at the expense of us doing what we’re already doing and that is providing um the salaries that are
Requested to to the extent that um there have been lawsuits that because of the city following directive of of the fire department with the exempt issue that the city had to come back and end up paying millions of dollars for um U Back pay and so I’m not I still have not
Heard anything that would suggest this would be a wise investment on the part of the city to put millions of dollars into doing something that we’re already seeing achieve the uh the only thing I resp respond to with the disenfranchisement is we’ve got places all over the country African-American
Cities predominant Hispanic cities and the issue of the firefighters Union being part of a disenfranchisement just it’s just not something that’s occurred at least in the 38 years that I’ve been around now I’m certain it did prior to that but that’s you know that’s not one
My watch should I can speak to and certainly your opinion is a valid opinion it’s one I don’t have to agree with but it is a valid opinion uh the Commonwealth of Virginia is prohibited bargaining for a long time but I will say on average I mentioned the number of
Red States Southern States conservative States and certainly northern states where bargaining is uh an operationally effective way of managing relationships between firefighters and their public sector employees your point also is correct with respect to the private sector very very different deal and uh you know their ability to strike for
Example is is something that we would never ever ask for because we don’t think it’s appropriate in a setting of protecting property laines vice mayor Lucas Burg ma’am you have the floor thank you mayor um thank you for the presentation Mr O coner um I guess I
My question is um being transparent and open um you know the amount of money that the city would have to invest to to get this going um I like hearing perspectives um we’ve had several presentations and I was a part of the council that voted prematurely um in
2020 before Governor uh Northam um delayed the um the actual vote um and we didn’t have nearly um as much information as we do now so we do need to be informed uh going into this final vote and this decision um my my concern or my question um is um you know the
City will be able to and we’ve met with our uh Team here our Council and our legal uh team as well who will be helping to guide the process depending on which way this vote goes um today we will be able to write what we want in
Our policy in our resolution and that the city council will be able to vote um up or down on issues that that you would bargain for say um if we didn’t have it in the budget to move forward um and I believe that a lot of people look at um
The revenue that we’ve prematurely or or have you know uh to date earned from our Casino earnings and um we want to know what that looks like longterm um we’ve only been in that type of Revenue um for about 10 months now so uh we need to see realistically what our funding looks
Like um at that point too um and then another concern was um uh we know that we have a union already in place and that there are other organized groups that are together we know that you know the fire would be the first one out of
The gate and how would this benefit we know that our fire uh police would have to se um create a separate Union and then our general employee so how uh does this provide an opportunity for us to move in that direction in a positive manner well I I think at least From The
Far Side and this also gets to Dr Whitaker’s uh comment I should have said this earlier I believe that and I’m not a member of the Portsmith fire department but 90 % of the members of the overall fire department of the total fire department do in fact right now
Belong to um the Portsmouth firefighters Union the generalized questions that you were asking about law enforcement uh law enforcement’s represented I believe here in this city by the Fraternal Order of Police uh but there are other organizations that represent officers there’s pbas I think uh chesap or nukk
Is represented by PBA uh there’s National Association police officers and for General employees it’s all over the map with respect to public sector employers like ask me SEIU um this is not a unique problem here um because of the nature of our organization the unionization of our
Members is greater but in my city of Baltimore for example they had the same issues when they were organizing and ask me actually were the ones that ended up picking up the general employees um and the Fraternal Order Poli ironically as he represents the Law Enforcement
Officers there um but the key is what you said and it’s what I really Tred to hit my testimony the enabling statute that was passed in Richmond gives you guys control and I couldn’t come here and say that if I were making this case in Oklahoma I would have to be saying
You have an entire state bureaucracy I believe in Collective bargain I think it’s worth your effort to do it but here the folks sitting at this day able get to craft what works for you and that makes it very unique and very uh self-fulfilling that you get to do what works for your
City thank you Dr Dr whiter sure you have the floor yes uh Mr con you you mentioned something uh to um our vice mayor that um 90% of the firefighters in Portsmouth are part of the Union okay now now that’s what I’m speaking to when I say
The voice being suppressed are you aware of what percentage of that 90% is made up of minority firefighters I am not well I don’t even know if 10% of the fire department in pouth is minority and so you would have a significant suppression of of their
Voice and that’s that’s a concern that I don’t think investing millions of dollars like that at the expense are suppressing the vo so I’m I’m not I’m not sure if that’s something that climate we want to create all I can say anecdotally that in cities like Baltimore Prince George’s County
Maryland DC the unions are actively and vibrantly involved in minority recruitment recruitment in terms of women so we like to think that where we’re there we can be part of the solution right well I’m you know recruitment Recruitment and presence uh those two different things and I’m I’m
Speaking about those that are there now that would be under the voice of the Union at the expense of their voice thank you sir councilman Moody sir you have the floor thank you mayor uh thank you Mr OK Conor for being here uh couple of things uh one you mentioned
Earlier that uh you would not uh support report a strike or call for a strike but isn’t it a fact that the Commonwealth of Virginia Statute prohibits public employees from striking I’m sure it does yeah and and and I wanted to make that clear because I think the public
Misunderstands that that that would not be allowed yeah uh the the other thing where the rubber really meets the road is not in that ordinance that we’ll pass tonight but rather in the collected bargain for a contract uh can you explain what role you or uh the international will play in those
Negotiations are they strictly uh local they’re local in terms of who is at the bargain table um we have resources like we can do a municipal financial analysis of things uh we can do GIS and that’s just not unique to the local I mean we’ve done that for fire departments as
Well but we no outsider will be sent in here to sit down at the table and bargain on their behalf it will 100% be done at local level that’s how organizations work since 1918 and it’s one of the reasons frankly why I think we’re successful you don’t have somebody
That you know gets a degree in you know Labor Relations from Cornell and you know is just dropped in San Diego and hey you’re running the city is in we don’t work that way it’s local okay the other thing let let’s talk talk about the negotiations let’s say that uh they
Can’t agree uh What uh step us through what what happens at that point well again you get to draft your dispute mechanism deal the council gets to draft that there’s nothing that the state did so there’s all kind of ways that it can be done let me say say one caveat at the
First part of it the only thing that can’t be done is your fiscal Authority can’t be stripped they can’t take your ability to manage the finances away so you could structure something in terms of a binding arbitration for non-fiscal issues that could be done you could have
Uh a voluntary impass you could direct the American Arbitration Association to do it you could set the process how you want to set the process and that’s what’s unique about this my my advice would be it’s a good thing to do and just get it right I mean sit down and
Come up with something that works for a city thank you councilman till you have the floor sir thank you mayor uh Mr OK Conor uh thank you for coming and presenting I would say in my opinion I think this is probably uh the most comprehensive uh presentation we’ve had on collective
Bargaining um I had quite a few questions that I think all of my colleagues already answered and um I think you for giving a very good answer to those um so my my concerns have actually been addressed but I just wanted to thank you to for taking your
Time to to come speak to us and I don’t know the timet table on any of this but if you need anything follow up or further I’m more than happy to to to answer any questions provide any additional information thank thank you Mr OK Conor I I have a few questions yes
Sir several questions um so I I come from a blueco collar town that that has a fire Union Erie Pennsylvania born and raised and a good friend of our family was the fire chief but I have a couple questions for you that the that concern me um you stated
That the national Union wouldn’t be involved in local negotiations now I’m not going to suggest that that’s not true but is it realistic to think that your National Organization and this local organization that pays dues to you you would not have some input involvement or perhaps is it unreasonable to think that someone
Couldn’t come down and have lunch with somebody to give them some guidance is that unreasonable oh no what what I was referring to exclusively is we will provide them with all the research information that they could possibly have all the advice that they would ask 100% you’re spot on but what I’m
Suggesting is like the model for hypothetically asks me they have Prof professional people who work out of a regional or state headquarters that actually go into jurisdictions and sit down and bargain on behalf of their local members what I’m saying is that’s not our model certainly we would provide
If they were negotiating here we provide them salary comparisons that we would be able to generate from nor furer chesap 100% I don’t want to suggest for a minute we wouldn’t be doing okay the the other question I have in your opinion and you’re certainly a professional with a lot of
Experience is there ever a situation where collective bargaining isn’t needed I would suggest that if everything is is for the present moment just like the just like the 7% you’re providing I can’t speak to all the other issues but that actually is a pretty generous deal but I’ve seen
Places where legitimately you know Charleston South Carolina is an example we lost nine firefighters down there at a Superstore fire there was absolutely no dialogue with the employees there’s National studies done not by the union but by OSHA by other folks that clearly demonstrate that they weren’t operating
Correctly I can point to other jurisdictions where you’ve had a change in administration and he said you know what we’ve decided almost like a Garbage Contract that we’re going to give the EMS to a third party provider so yeah the consistency when I was was responding to the Admiral’s question
Earlier that’s the issue you get good people in place you get good policy in place bargaining protects that right and and also when you talk about collaboration is it is it is it fair to say that collaboration has to occur in any situation whether it’s collective bargaining or not is that fair that’s
Fair the other thing is have you ever heard of things called sick outs is that is that a realistic thing in unions that unions participate in I’ve done some reading and I don’t know I’m asking you because you’re certainly more more more well versed in that than I I I I can
Tell you back in like the 60s and 70s yeah absolutely um we haven’t I haven’t heard of a sick out we certainly hav ever sanctioned to sick out um but but but do they can they still occur in this in this environment sure sure they can but they can occur whether there’s a
Union contract or not part of the purpose having a contract is to make sure that there’s a process that if you’re bargaining table the union certainly you know there’s a process there where a lot of that things happened in the 70s where people trying to organize and but there hasn’t been
That kind of Discord in a very very long period of time okay that’s that’s good the other thing I wanted to ask you about so fiscal fiscal impacts because that’s that’s what I really pay attention to Portsmouth is a city that 50% of our land we don’t derive any
Taxes from um a hurricane something catastrophic anything could really put us in a big Financial Bond where we don’t have the flexibility financially perhaps of cities like Baltimore city and other cities are you aware of any any cities like similarly situated like Portsmouth um with your data that has
Fiscal constraints that might cause a problem in a negotiation when you have a contract in place and there is a bargaining unit that saying that says we want X and you’re saying we and I understand that the city ultimately is control of the fiscal purse I I
Understand that but is there is there ever a situation um that you’ve dealt with Portsmouth is unique in that regard and I think that we do a very good job we can all improve we can get better but I think we do a good job in our
Leadership and our and and our Council in listening to the concerns of our fighter fighters I’ll give you an example um when I was first on Council there was an issue brought up about the um retirement and our retirement rate the rate of retirement that we were paying the multiplier wasn’t consistent
With the region and we listened very intently and the council voted to raise that multiplier to give our fire firefighters parody with the region so that’s just one example and so I just wanted to see if if if there ever never been a consideration because at the end
Of the day it has to make fiscal sense too there have and I’m going to give you a couple of examples if that’s okay with you uh the first two I’ll talk about it’s a little bit north of here one is Atlantic City uh New Jersey that at one
Point operated I’m going to say don’t hold me to it nine casinos it went down to three their revenue completely fell out and uh concession bargaining that you wouldn’t believe uh you know 30 35% pay cuts that were done through negotiations City Miami Florida same type deal uh you know something occurred
Down there I’m not quite sure what but it really hit them fiscally hard and there was bargaining Flint Michigan uh would be an another example in Detroit um there’s cases that abound that where we’ve had mature bargaining relationships and Something’s Happened to the city’s finances that it’s been
Dealt that way here in Pennsylvania I believe at one point was was under act 47 if you remember that they were my friend was the mayor at that time right so I mean there’s been there’s been cases like that where that’s been worked through um and an example of a similar
Type town uh and and to your point vice mayor uh with uh the casinos was down the Gulf Coast of Mississippi Golfport buuy those cities they ended up having bargaining agreements back in I guess the ’90s and a lot of it was contingent on the resources that they were
Developing from that so they parallels I mean with with 3700 Affiliates we we’ve kind of G through things a lot of different places okay that that’s all I have sir thank you appreciate it thank you for the opportunity thank you Mr OK Madame interim city manager you have
The floor ma’am yes our next presentation will be our annual Retirement Board presentation for our Legacy systems the fire and police and the uh psmith supplemental uh the uh presenters will give their names and what division they represent thank you good evening everyone good evening sir hear me okay
We can hear you okay you please state your name for us again yeah my name is Tom Shenley I’m with John Hancock we are the retirement plan provider for the what we refer to as the Frozen retirement system and we’ll explain that uh as we go through the presentation so
I have two individuals also joining me they’ll come up as part of this uh three-part update uh John Morrison who is the um assigned actuary also with John Hancock and then Brian Barm who’s with greyone which is a company of Morgan Stanley uh he’ll come up and
Focus more on the investment aspect of the retirement system excuse me Mr Mayor uh Dr Whitaker sure you have the floor I I I was going to ask the city manager is is this report in line still with collective bargaining and impact it’s going to have on the retirement system
Is that what this is she she stepped out to to go to the res if if you want to hold a minute I we can pause just for a moment if that’s okay because I don’t know the might can is that what this presentation is I don’t want to speak
For the manager but in discussing it with her I think it it relates to the the entities that are still in the retirement system as it’s um making its way matriculating through will conect to the dollars and cents related to what retirement cost has been and could be considering collective bargaining so it
Is an an an item to consider as part of collective bargaining I no I just just for my context we still in collective bargaining all right okay yes sir yes please continue sir all right thank you Mr Mayor so again my name is Tom Shenley as I said I’m with John Hancock
We have been the provider of this uh retirement system which is a defined benefit plan for approximately the last 15 years uh I’ve been um thankful enough to work with the city over that time as well so we’re we’re going to give this three-part update I will give an
Executive overview uh some highlights of the program uh looking at the past fiscal year and also some updated information and then um I’ll ask John to come up to take over the second part and then Brian will come up and do the third part um obviously open for questions so
With regards to um the executive summary I just want to point out a few things um in addition to to what I already stated So currently the system has approximately $188 million that’s an invested in a separate trust that’s held um outside of City assets it’s still obviously an asset of the retirement
Program uh those assets are held combined with John Hancock and Morgan Stanley again who has an affiliation with Greystone um those assets are set aside to pay for all current and ongoing future benefits for individuals that have a retirement benefit that’s part of the system as you can see uh from the
Third bullet uh during the last fiscal year uh we generated uh close to 11,500 monthly benefit checks that went out to these individuals uh for more than $28 million um and that’s an important number and one we’ll come back to as we talk through this but it gives
You a sense of the cash outflow that comes from the system and the assets that are held uh to support it um the good news is that the uh overall funded status where we look at the comparison of liabilities or what is due now and what will be due compared to assets held
Uh did improve uh from the prior fiscal year and uh based on a number of projections that we have done throughout the years for the city um we really have been falling in line with what those projections uh predicted if you will how the how the portfolio would perform and
The other piece of good news is over the past year the expenses to support the retirement system uh decreased so just as a reminder so I referred to this as a as a frozen or clothes system uh this system stopped um having new members uh be added to it
Going back 30 to 40 years so if you see fire and police was closed in 1995 the supplemental system that covers uh city employees designated city employees that was closed back in 1984 and since that period of time as as new employees have come on board uh
Those individuals go into uh versions of the vrs uh the retire the Virginia retirement system um and in general this retirement system is here to provide benefit payments uh for individuals uh based on service when they retire if unfortunately a death occurs um to themselves uh in in the future and name
Beneficiaries based on how they set up their benefit payment this graph here just gives you um a high level look at the past uh 11 years of what we’ve seen from the retirement system so if you see the bars uh in green are the uh the assets held
So market value of assets helds for each fiscal year compared to the bar in Blue uh which designates uh projected liabilities um and then the funded status which essentially it’s an Actuarial determined number which I’ll let John talk to a little bit more but it it looks at the percentage of you
Know looking at Future uh benefits based on assets currently held and projections of of both of those to what percentage uh is the system uh holding assets to pay for those benefit payments so as you can see in the red line it’s been very consistent um in the area of around 70%
Uh you’ll see there was a big jump back in 2021 that was to the benefit of um some good investment manager agement by the Retirement Board and and really strong markets at that point um but it has settled back into again where we have seen consistently around
70% if we take a closer look uh ending in September we’ll see there’s always going to be variability uh within the assets that are held uh we see a slight dip where the overall funded level is is around 67% now again I mentioned 187 U million uh there’s some comments here
With regard to benchmarking so uh we did take a look and and we talked to this last year uh to look at the average funding level of US public Retirement Systems you’ll see it’s reported here from a Boston College research study um at 78% so the this number here 67% is a
Little bit below that um the Boston College research looks at uh different variations of how uh percentages of of systems can be determined so if we looked a little deeper into that study um and again I’ll let John comment a little bit more we see that city of
Portsmouth is is closer to around 74 75% uh based on how the Boston College looked at um that Benchmark of groups last year the retirement system here in Portsmouth was above that number and again we consistently see it right around that level which is which is a good
Thing uh one of the other comments up here just gives you uh an idea and obviously an important aspect of the city of what will be required for contributions so what’s recommended uh based on the Actuarial work done um the the ADC or the Actuarial determined contribution for the upcoming fiscal
Year is uh targeted to be around 8.4 million that it is slightly up from the last fiscal year was just under 8 million so those are just some highlevel uh updates on the system uh just want to give you a little bit more background on the ongoing uh government and oversight
And then I’ll bring John up to take things um from here for a little bit more information on the Actuarial uh results so there is a Retirement Board that oversees uh the system uh the Retirement Board meets on a quarterly basis um that board uh meets directly with um members from John Hancock
Including myself or John or others if needed and then also from graceone Morgan Stanley uh Brian who will Who will talk and give an update um uh Jim Whitney who’s also here among uh as well as others as part of their team so we meet on an ongoing basis uh we give
Updates on the system uh we talk to all the things or I talk to the things that John Hancock does um and and really we’re providing all of the ongoing Administration the recordkeeping the issuing of checks uh the Actuarial work we deal directly with individuals who are looking uh to model benefits
Although the vast majority of individuals in the system are in Pay but we handle all that ongoing customer interaction so we provide updates there and then uh Brian Jim and their team they focus on uh economic events the impact of those uh they talk with the board around proper asset allocation um
And forward-looking you know decisions on how the money should be invested again I’m sure Brian’s going to comment a little bit further on that uh this is just a slide to give you an idea of what the committee uh looks like the committee is made up and has
Historically been made up of uh both uh public citizens uh individuals that have ties to both fire and police um as well as um working for the city and then obviously individuals from City leadership and staff sit in on those meetings as well and and um are involved with
Discussion I think I’ve given a little bit overview of what John Hancock does and and what uh Greystone Morgan Stanley does and again as and if questions come up we can speak a little bit further to that and then the last thing I just want
To comment on is uh we operate in full discl closure and full transparity uh transparency on fees and expenses uh this is an annual look at what the expenses of running the system from uh the Consultants that you work with here at John Hancock and Greystone um and
What we also reference there is that uh there was a drop in uh expenses and fees paid over the last year the expense structure for how we get paid is set up based on really the size of the program so as uh the number of individuals and
The benefits or the assets Associated to them decrease as this system continues to get smaller our uh fees also reflect that obviously there are times where we see strong market performance and an increase of assets which will help from an overall uh perspective of making sure
That um the fund uh has the assets there to pay for ongoing liabilities um and and fees could variably increase as well but um they’re they’re in line in agreements and um negotiate it and have continued discussions with the city and the board on what our fee structure
Is so that’s everything uh for me just to set the stage again I’m going to hand things over to John and he’ll take it from here and just give you a little bit more detail on the Actuarial most recent Actuarial Val evaluation welcome John thank you good evening Mr Mayor members of council
Thank you for having me today uh as Mr chle mentioned my name is John Morrison I the assigned actuary for the plan I have a few slides in our presentation to give a high level overview uh of the status of the plan um as Mr Shanley mentioned the systems have been closed
To new entrance for quite some time now so if you look at the uh demographic makeup of the participants in the plan you’ll see the P the plans are primarily in active so the the liabilities for the plan uh really represent benefits for particip ipants that are now retired uh
And are currently receiving money in the plan there still are a few remaining actives as of our recent valuation uh but again primarily uh participants receiving benefits uh from the system when we look at an overview uh the plan over the past fiscal year as Mr Shanley mentioned uh we see an
Improvement in the funded status what we see in this slide is we have that value of assets in the plan so there’s that separate account that held in the trust to pay benefits uh for those participants uh the liabilities represent the the value of the stream of
Payments that we project to be paid out to those participants U brought back to today’s dollars at the assumed 7.25% investment return that rence the uh the single liability a single figure for those benefits to be paid out when you compare the assets to the liabilities we
Have a a deficit in the plan of approximately 93 million as a prior fiscal year uh you can also do that as a funded status that’s the percentage um of the assets over the liabilities when we look at where we were from June 30 2022 to June 30
2023 uh the two components we see on the liability side the interest cost and benefit acrs uh as we mentioned the benefit acral so those are the uh additional acrs for those active participants in the plan that’s at this point basically a rounding eror for the
Plan given the the few number of people that are still AC crewing benefits so the majority of what you see there is the interest cost so that represents the assumed growth in the liabilities uh as those future payments come one year closer to being due those are offset by
The the payments to the retirees as Mr Chanley mentioned those are about just south of 30 million so a pretty significant amount of money that is coming out of the plan on an annual basis uh those come out of the assets and the liabilities equally so you can
See there’s no net impact on the funded status uh of the system on the moving over to the asset side um the the assets will grow with contributions to the plan that are made by the city uh the 7.9 million represents the actual o determined contribution for fiscal
2023 um that is projected to go up to 8.4 million for fiscal 2024 uh over the past uh fiscal year we had a a strong investment return so about a 10% returns that’s the the 18.5 million and then those expenses that Mr Shanley mentioned come out of the plan
Uh one thing to point out here is well a couple things to point out here uh as Mr shley mentioned that the funding status improved so at the beginning of the year there was a deficit of about 93 million we see an improvement of fund ass stat
Of about a deficit of 87 million you will note that the assets of the plan are still decreasing and this is a function of the the value of the benefit payments that are coming out of the plan uh it’s about 14% of the plan assets are coming out so significant amount of
Money is coming out of the plan so even though we had a strong investment year year the city is continuing to make contributions the asset pool is dropping the The Hope here with the long-term funding strategy is what you’ll see is that the liabilities are dropping
Similarly and so the hope is that the as the contributions are made the fund is earning money that the assets will decrease less than the liability is decreasing and that’s how you close the gap in that funded status uh over the life of the plan any questions or
Comments councilman Moody sir you have a question yes yeah mayor uh it was asked earlier and I think the City attorney replied that uh this was part of the collected bargaining presentation but uh isn’t it true that uh no members uh that will be involved in any Collective bar bargaining
Agreement uh are in this plan or would be in this plan there new members coming into the plan the plan has been closed to new members for 30 to 4 years a it’s a closed plan correct just wanted to make that point uh you know to to label it as part of
The uh collective bargaining presentation and I guess the rebuttal I I just yeah the discussion well annually they come and give this presentation every November um the reason it’s a part of this discussion is because uh to understand the fiscal impacts is to understand what we already pay into a
Retirement plan for our fire police retirees even though it’s a Clos plan all of these dollars still are equate to what taxpayers pay out to be able to to put um money into this closed system it’s just another mechanism to understand the expenses that uh we pay for a retirement plan system system
Which is our Legacy A system that those under the any collective bargaining agreement won’t be part of yeah that wasn’t the point they’re under vrs correct is that that’s my understanding yes or current employees are in the vrs correct thank thank you on Council M tillage sir you have the
Floor thank you mayor my my question was very similar to councilman Moody um according to this slide there’s only eight employees in the entire city that are active uh employees and so from my understanding retirees that are already retired cannot be a part of collective bargaining so I understand that we’re
You’re you did this presentation for to talk about benefits that are already being offered but I don’t really see the correlation between this being part of the overall collective bargaining conversation so I’m just I just want to get some clarity on how that connects uh the fiscal impact of what we are already
Paying out it’s not that it’s open to any CI to any um employees it’s a closed Frozen system however there is a fiscal impact and again they do this presentation every year and so what we’re looking at is just the fiscal impacts and we and that is the next
Presentation will come from our financial advisors but all this correlates with debt these are all expenses associated with what we put out every year um annually for the cost of doing operations and doing business so since we’re having it this night is Just coincidental that this happened to
Be the timing yeah because next one we got some other things we have to deal with yeah but it’s still a fiscal impact go ahead thank you have a question so just for clarity Mr Mayor wait wait Dr Whitaker has the floor Dr Whitaker you have the floor sir okay so I I’m
Assuming there’s more presentation coming that’s going to show what the fiscal impact is of implementing collective bargaining yes sir right and that’ll be tonight as well yes sir right and so the reason you were you were out when I asked the question about the relationship that that’s what I’m trying
To make sure I’m understanding is um that we’re getting this information as we get annually but also it does have to be taken into account um because there are some fiscal impacts that going to occur that also is going to impact our uh present uh payouts and so I’m
Comfortable with what I asked and the response that was given yes sir councilman hugle sir you have the floor yeah thanks sir so just for clarity we’re getting this brief because we always get this brief this time of year but the fact is this brief wouldn’t be
Any different if we were in collected bargaining or not in collective bargaining because it’s a bill that we pay to cover Legacy Retirement folks and we’re going to pay that bill whether we’re in collected bargaining or not true true but every year there’s a just like he mentioned and he’ll continue
That there’s some cost Associated and it increases so if there’s a loss in stock if it’s a loss in here these things impact what our bottom line is regardless so correct it’s no no matter what you would get this presentation just having to fall on tonight and it is
The old police and fire retirement system got it okay thank you please continue all right thank you John I have a similar uh excuse me a similar slide to show where we were uh where we are fiscal year to date uh so this represents the 3month period ending September 30
2023 uh so a little down Market a little and that’s really impacting the the funded status but still early in the year and we’ll continue to review this and update this at the end of the fiscal year the next slide oh sorry next slide here wanted to highlight the the payouts
That come out of the plan mentioned that the the benefit payments in the neighborhood of about 30 million a year a significant U portion of the plan assets are currently held this is the a projection of those payouts over the next 40 50 years and the thing to highlight is that those
Benefit payments are still going to remain at a relatively high level in the 20 to 25 million uh in about the next continuing over the next 10 years uh but start a steadily decline as the system uh progresses when we look at the the actual determined contribution so that
Is the one of the purposes of the annual valuation is to come up with a recommendation uh for what the city will put into the plan on an annual basis uh to help ensure the solvency uh that contribution is 8.4 million for fiscal 2024 we project that to steadily
Increase to about 11 million annually uh over the next few years excuse me sir can I ask a question I wanted to ask a question of a manager what are we currently paying to service the debt currently this this this program right now what are we playing on a monthly basis do we
Know is that the obligation Bond I’m sorry I do not have that information what I mean what are we paying then 10 10 million 10 million a year that’s just on the pension obligation Bond okay and then I guess I just want to understand it from a dollar amount
Yes sir when you say the increase the 8 million to 10 million annually over the next few years what is that related to that’s the actual determined contribution so the projection of the I’ll go to the last bullet point okay go ahead no you’re you’re okay I’ll follow you so the the
Current goal or method of the system is system was put in place approximately I think 20 or so years ago that that deficit would be funded over a 30-year period so somewhat analogous to a mortgage payment if you can think of it like that right um so the the
Contributions are determined using the liabilities of the plan those are projected to remain relatively steady steadily decreasing uh you will see some gains and losses on an annual basis but that should be relatively relatively small the bigger driver what you’ll see here is really the the assets that’s
Going to drive the funded status on annual basis it’ll go up and down with market movement but the expectation is that over the long run uh the fund will earn that 7.25% so the the the the deficit in the plan that currently exists is going to be made up through either excess
Earnings or contributions that the city puts in uh to help fund the existing deficit uh so the current method or or system that exists is that contributions will be made on an annual basis again somewhat similar to like a mortgage payment over the next I think we’re at
13 years now to help fund that Gap um on the current Year’s valuation that number is 8.4 million um the way that the contribution is determined and Mr Shanley mentioned this earlier about the different asset values is we use what’s called an actu value of assets um so
That Smooths in some of the gains and losses that occur in the market uh on an annual basis those are eventually recognized uh but the purpose of the actal value is to create a little bit more smoother pattern so that as the market goes up and down your Actuarial
Value of assets is relatively stable or as stable can be with movement market so the increase that you see from the 8 to 11 really represents the the phasing in of some of those losses that we saw during 2022 uh when markets were down so we currently project that 8.4 will
Increase a little over the next I believe it’s three or four years as some of those asset losses become recognized in the method uh and then it should steady excuse me level out in the 10 to 11 million range uh through through 2037 with the goal of having the systems 100%
Funded at that time all right that’s everything I have on the I guess we’ll call it the liability side of the house so if there are no further questions I’ll turn it over to Mr Veron all right thank you very much good evening Mr Mayor uh Madame
Vice mayor City Council um staff it’s a pleasure to be here with you uh this evening again it’s good to see everybody in person going to spend a few minutes talking about the asset side and the performance um the investment performance of the plan I’ve got a few
Slides uh that are going to go into some detail on that I first wanted to provide a little bit of overview on who Greystone Consulting is um as was communicated we are part of Morgan Stanley we are the institutional Consulting division within Morgan Stanley so that means we work with
Pension funds and Charities and insurance companies and helping them manage their assets we were formed in 1973 clearly Morgan Stanley’s been around a lot longer than 1973 but our organization the institutional Consulting piece was formed in 1973 we consult this is a little bit um
Stale number I saw in in uh a new number updated number uh this morning we consult over 500 billion dollars in client assets so um investors that look an awful lot like um the retirement system here we provide um customized uh Solutions asset allocation advice manager selection portfolio construction for all of our
Clients uh any Investments we do make are with uh firms that are not Morgan Stanley and that’s important from a conflict of interest perspective we scour the world to find the very best managers around the globe and bring those um to uh the retirement system and our other
Clients we’ve been working with the board uh retir irent board since uh 2016 and our relationship has evolved over time and we reference here um at the end of October of 2018 we uh have been employed in what’s referred to as a discretionary investment mandate now what does that
Mean it means we work with the board and they set investment policy broad asset allocation strategy and then they hand it off to us and we go out and we hire in fire managers and we move the portfolio around within the confines of the board approved and adopted investment policy
Statement I want to touch on asset allocation how we’re currently allocating the assets um we’ve got um about 70% of our portfolio in stocks mostly US Stocks we do have some uh exposure um outside of this country as well we have about um a little bit less than 25% of our
Portfolio allocated to bonds all us bonds and we have um about 8% of the portfolio allocated to Alternative Investments that’s mostly in um in real estate quite frankly when we compare that um allocation relative to the common practices around the country so what is the average public fund doing that’s the
Light blue bars on this chart you can see a dramatically lower allocation to stocks and a dramatically higher allocation to Alternative Investments you can see almost 30% of the average public fund is allocated to Alternative Investments that’s investing in private companies it’s investing in real estate it’s investing in hedge
Funds as we talked about earlier this is a closed system and a frozen system that means liquidity is very important to us we’re spending upwards of $30 million a year in benefit payments and so we need to be able to access those assets on a moment’s notice when you invest in
Alternatives it’s very a liquid you don’t have access to that Capital you might not have access to that capital for 10 to 15 years or longer that’s a big reason why you don’t see a big bar for us in Alternatives the other interesting thing about alternative
Investments is that um um uh a um an individual in our industry named Richard Enis he basically started the investment Consulting industry happened to be my mentor early on in my career he’s done a lot of research and using statistical techniques to see if he can replicate a
Portfolio that has a lot of Alternatives with Justin stocks and bonds that’s what that effective asset mix looks at it looks through the Alternatives exposure and tries to reallocate it to the other asset classes that we know all know and and understand well and the outcome of
That research is to say that on average even though these public funds have 30% in Alternatives it’s basically the same thing as having a portfolio that has 72% in stocks and 28% in bonds so the implication of that is the strategy that we’re implementing for the retirement
System is almost exactly in line with what the average public fund is doing not that we strive to do what everybody else is doing but it’s important to understand where we are relative to what others are doing given um the public nature of public pension investing here’s a quick look at um plan
Year performance we go back to 2013 and the way to read this chart is each of those individual years is the 12-month return ending June 30 so June 30 of 2013 the retirement system earned a 12% return net of all fees and expenses um we have a bench Mark that
We’re measured against and we’re managing to um that return was 6.9% over the same period the difference being 5.1% I’ll come all the way down to the bottom of uh that first grouping of numbers um the Actuarial return assumption is 7 and a qu% so that means as the actuary does
Projections about how the assets are going to perform in the future to see if we have enough assets today to cover those benefit expenses uh payments they’re assuming we’re going to earn 7 and a qu% return I can tell you we’re not going to earn 7 and a qu% return
Each and every year that’s not how the capital markets operate in fact you can see in 2022 was a very challenging year we all know why inflation was highest it’s been in 40 years stock market had historic losses the bond market has historic losses those things happen in
Um any given year however what we do strive to do is to generate a return over a long period of time time that’s going to meet and exceed that Actuarial return expectation for the plan year 2023 we earned a 10.1% return better than the seven and quarter we were a little bit
Behind what our Benchmark was but from an Actuarial perspective that’s a big reason why the funded status improved from fiscal year 22 to fiscal year 23 when you look over longer periods of time and that’s shown in the last three um rows of this table the discretionary period when our relationship with the
Retirement Board evolved to be one of a discretionary manager we we can hire and fire managers uh on our own certainly tell the board that we’re doing that and what we’re doing 7.4% return net of all fees higher than the seven and a quarter The
Last 5 Years 7% um just short and since we’ve been involved with the city going back to the spring of 2016 the average annual return net of all fees was exactly on top of what the actuary expectation was so this is a good outcome this is what was expected we
Were able to participate in capital markets when they were strong we were able to generate the returns that were required to bring the system to fully funded we’ve got a ways to go as you heard from John but uh at least over the last uh whatever that is seven years or
So it’s been um it’s been a good outcome last thing I want to point here is um I I I mentioned earlier we don’t manage to what um other public Retirement systems are doing but we compare the return that we’ve been able to generate relative to the returns that are being generated in
The industry but you know out outside of Portsmouth we have access to a universe of public fund returns these are actual returns earned by um plans that are very similar to Portsmith scattered all around the country their Statewide plans their Municipal plans their teacher plans fire and police Etc
It’s an organizations that’s that’s it’s a Universe um that’s called uh investment metrics um and over the last year for the 12 months ending um uh June 30 2023 there were 465 plans within that universe so this is one of the broadest and most deep universes of um returns
That are earned in the public sector the way to look about this this blue bar and think about this blue bar is this is the distribution of returns earned by everybody else our black triangle there is our return we earned a 10.1% return it’s at the top that means
Our return over that period of time was better than pretty much everybody else a good outcome when you look over the last five years um the distribution gets a little bit skinnier and this is what we see over time the longer the the time period you have the less extreme outcomes you
You tend to defined our return over that period was 7% slightly behind the Actuarial resumption if uh assumption if we looked at the full period I mentioned earlier we we exactly matched it but our return that 7% return uh ranked at the 25th percentile so we did better than 75% of
The other public Retirement Systems around the country so a lot of credit and the progress that have been made goes to the board um goes to um um the city of Portsmith for uh continuing to fund the system Investments are doing what we would expect um and we’re we’re closing that
Gap so with that Mr Mayor um I’m happy to take questions thank you Brian are there any questions from my colleagues on Council councilman hugle sir you have the floor yeah thanks Mr Mayor uh actually my question is for Mr Morrison so on your observation Slide
The very last bullet you say the current funding method will drive the systems 100% funded by the year 2037 yes sir so why 2037 not 2030 2040 2050 I mean the payout slide that you provided shows that we don’t really need to get to 100% until well after
2037 it’d be nice to be at 100% today so why 2037 sure so there’s two answers to that one is uh the system that was put in place years ago had recommended um advertising that or closing that Gap over a 30-year period that was back in
2007 so this is where we are in The Benchmark okay what we see in this graph the projected outflows um as you can see most of the payments are are front loaded the the period of 2037 is actually very consistent with the expected lifetime of the remaining
Retirees that are in the the plan so about on average the length of time that you expect to pay out to go for those participants so a best practice is typically to amortize those losses around the average lifetime of your participants and that’s about where the the 2037 and that 14year period comes
Into play and is there anything that requires us to be at 100% by 2037 so if if there was a dial to adjust it’s available for us to to work with you to adjust that’s understand I don’t believe there’s a requirement uh but that’s the existing policy that’s in place okay thank
You thank you gentlemen thank you very much thank you the next presentation will be from our financial advisor uh Davenport David Rose will begin thank you mayor members of council um I do have a handout it’s it’s going to be on the screen but if anyone likes
To uh write or mark it up perhaps is that this yes okay while the officer is uh handing this out I would just point out um just a just a little commentary on the previous gentleman’s presentation um we do have a policy it’s 80% um we’re not
There right now but that is uh actually a formal policy of the city uh was put in place when we did those uh pension obligation bonds several years ago okay again mayor pleasure to be back here good to see you m Rose thank you again David Rose I’m with Davenport I’m
The managing partner there um and what i’ like to do tonight is just address um some Financial uh implications and considerations um I’m certainly not here to say whether this is good or bad that’s not uh my purview but rather to try to provide some uh information for
All of you uh to consider as part of uh your ongoing uh deliberations so with that said um a little bit of background for those that are watching and uh may have not seen uh Davenport myself in the past um we’ve worked with the city as your financial advisor for probably
About 15 or 16 years now so uh we said at least a decade um we try to stay out of your politics but rather uh just give you some information that is as close to just being factual as possible uh if I don’t know the answers I’m certainly
Going to tell you that try to get you those answers but the bottom line is I just want to provide some uh input as again you do your deliberations whether it’s budgets whether it’s Capital planning uh whether it’s overall policies like one I just mentioned uh
That you have as it relates to pensions so with that said um on the second part of that uh basic uh handout here in the screen uh we were asked to uh come behind the Jackson Lewis law firm and talk a little bit again of the financial side
Of what this might mean uh to the city uh going forward so I would like to touch on maybe three general areas tonight I will not be overly long uh the first will be the general fund the second will be local funding to schools of which of course it comes from the
General fund and then third uh something that the geman uh Mr OK Conor talked a little bit about uh and that is uh the future uh and current credit ratings uh that the city enjoys um in spite of the fact that we are the single largest local government that has non-taxable
Property as the mayor indicated uh 50% roughly uh nevertheless uh by the things that you have done and continue to do we enjoy very solid credit ratings we are basically one tier below AAA which is the highest credit ratings that you can get part of why you are there is because
You have paid attention to and followed the majority of your policies today that wasn’t the case 10 or 15 years ago um and you know I’ve told you that before and we’ve talked about that so with that said let me just talk first about the general fund um the general fund is
Roughly about $300 million that’s your FY 2024 budget that you’re in right now of that some 45% of that is tied to compensation what we Define as salary and benefits put that together that’s about $135 million so as we indicated the gentleman before indicated uh the board yall uh
Council I should say uh approved a 7% wage increase uh in that um certainly uh it’s one of the reasons why you’re very competitive within the region uh as it relates to compensation um and just this is where I’m trying to be a little bit of education for everyone when you look at
That if you had a 1% adjustment so you did seven but a 1% adjustment is a little over $1.35 million to the general fund so just to give you a perspective every penny on the real estate rate using that as an IND indicator is about a million dollar
So if you think about it uh you basically gave well over 7 to8 Penny equivalent towards increases with regard to compensation uh this past uh year that you’re in right now so that said I want to give you a sense of what alls that mean those numbers being thrown at you
And you’ll see where I’m getting with and I hope you will in a few moments so in The Last 5 Years basically we have taken our rainy day fund meaning that fund balance which is so critical for us to have a good solid credit rating and
We have added $20 million to that over the last five years we can always get you the year-by-year details but just suffice to say we have averaged about $5 million because this Council has been structurally balanced you’ve added to the fund balance over the 5 years now why is that
Important because you’ve averaged $5 million a year having said that though the bullet right below that is a little bit something to me is sobering and that is that if we were to go forward and think about a 5% increase in compensation that alone would more than
Eclipse your Surplus in a given year it’d be almost $7 million so the point I’m making is while the last several years have been very positive we’ve had arpa we’ve had cares act and you’ve done a number of things um the reality is while we’ve been averaging $5 million that could very
Quickly evaporate and you all know many of you know I started working with the city when you were in a deficit position uh back some 14 15 years ago so one of the things want to be careful about when it comes to uh a collective bargaining um is that it can put
Some impact on cash flow requirements and that’s something that we just want to be careful of uh and want you to make sure you take that into consideration so city of public city ports withth public schools that second area I wanted to touch upon um as you
Know um we here in the Commonwealth are required local minimums we have to do certain funding whether we like it or not um and you can see here that in this current fiscal year that we’re at um the school budget about 250 million 60% of that is compensation salary and benefits
And that’s about $145 million you on the other hand um have been providing some $63 million to to the schools um and again that is essentially largely uh you know salary and benefits and what have you they of course use that in their various categories that does not include
The debt service for the things that you’ve helped them with that’s just again those other categories so once again a 5% increase let’s say and what you might give the schools would be a multi-million dollar impact to your general fund again I’m not here saying
That’s good or bad I just want to make sure everyone understands that when you look at percentages you can go considerably below 7% and still that could eat up any of the Surplus that you enjoyed very very quickly in a given year so let’s talk about the rating
Agencies um as you know um the city enjoys them as I mentioned right now didn’t always be the case um when we were first involved and engaged the ratings actually went down because there was a structural deficit but one of the reasons why in Virginia um we enjoy very strong credit
Ratings is that we have uh very solid flexibility thanks to the Commonwealth and the legislature with regard to revenue creation and expense management so with that said you look here and Fitch which is one of the three major rating agencies they have you rated um indicated and put in record and we’ve
Got that report if you like it they indicated that that combination of the House and Senate bill which is now in effect said to somewhat weaken your expend expenditure flexibility for the Commonwealth and its local governments so let’s make no mistake anytime something like collective bargaining is
Put into the mix it may be very good for you but it will impact your flexibility you will not typically see collective bargaining done on an annual basis goes to one of the council members indicated we’re talking about a lot of effort a lot of time a lot of dollars and so it’s
Not practical to do collective bargaining every year but what it is is usually something between 3 and 5 years and that six said one of the things that in talking to Jackson Lewis and I’ve got this a little bit later but I think the timing is right to say it once you get
Into that collective bargaining and you’ve got an agreement it is virtually impossible to undo that agreement I understand and I appreciate the gentleman talking about how various local governments I’ll give you one I lived for a while after school up in New York and the wealthiest County perhaps
One of the wealthiest counties is Nassau County and they actually went bankrupt and yet the police Union there refused to change their compensation at one time they were at the same time nasau County which is a wealthy County was basically bankrupt had a non non-credit rating non
Credit excuse me a non-rated credit uh they were below credit rating uh of what we call investment grade um they just stood their ground and said too bad this is our agreement this is the way it works pay us and they at one time were
The best paid uh police uh in the in the entire country so again may have changed dramatically I don’t know but again from my perspective you look at that green part all I’m simply saying is that collective bargaining has the ability to just put another belt and suspenders on
Your flexibility again it may be good for Portsmouth and what have you but at least the credit rating agencies um are somewhat concerned uh that again it just takes some of your flexibility and they talk about that lower down as I quote and they say uh fit’s assessment of expenditure flexibility considers the
Following the impact of debt service and retire benefit costs on the budget something you just had in addition to levels of pays you go capital investment and other non-core spending the government may be able to defer during a period of fiscal stress so again um this won’t be a positive for us but
Nevertheless excuse me Mr Rose I think a couple of years ago I remember we had a presentation that talked about fiscal stress our fiscal stress and there was a rating do you recall that Miss Terry about in the region where we live where we were in a fiscal stress situation and
I if I recall Portsmouth had a high level of fiscal stress at that time and I don’t know we probably haven’t seen an updated um form that indicated that but I would suggest that we probably still have a high level of fiscal stress is that fair yes mayor so interesting you
Say that I think I may have that document okay um it may be in the car but but I do I I do have that document uh the most recent and um I will I will say that I do have that recollection yes sir okay hold on Mr Rose Dr Whitaker you
Have the floor sir yes Mr Rose you you made a statement there I just want to um follow up on uh you said although collective bargaining uh will not uh be annually um but what will be annually is that there will be a structure um that
The city will have to put in place that will involve uh additional compensation to to employees which would as you said have an impact so although it may not occur annually we still would have to have in place a structure human resource-wise to address uh the collective bargaining so that that would
Still be an annual expense you know Dr whiter I me say one thing because I did uh I did speak uh incorrectly if I said that what I really meant to say was it’s not practical to do annual collective bargaining it could be I don’t know of
Another place that does an an ually um but the point is what we are typically seeing is something in a 3 to 5 year time period because it is so honorous and cumbersome to do you know negotiations that doesn’t mean they’re not good but that’s right we typically
Are seeing them over several years well my point is regardless whether it’s annually or three years you still have to have a structure in place that’s going to require compensation which from what you’re saying and what the mayor just mentioned about fiscal stress um it would have a significant impact uh on
The on the city financially and so I I just wanted to make sure that I was I was clear on that that and what I heard as far as although it may not or may it still requires a structure to be I I again my role here is I worry about the
Dollars and cents I’ve never been elected obviously and probably wouldn’t be but what I’m worried about for any local government particularly the city of Portsmouth and knowing the history uh of the city of Portsmouth financially is that while we’re enjoying right now a surplus while we’re enjoying structural
Balance um I know it can turn very very quickly and so with that said what I am concerned about which is what fit and the rating agencies are concerned about is it all sounds great you know this is a nice Union and we’ll work with you and we’ll we’ll make sure everything works
Again I lived in New York when that was the exact opposite and there was a wealthy community Nassau County growing prosperous and it couldn’t borrow other than junk bond status because its unions were so strong and so powerful because the other factor is once you get into a collective bargaining the experience and
We’re talking to Jackson Lewis about this it practically speaks you’re really never going to extricate yourself the way to get out of that it’s very difficult to comprehend but it could happen um but so I just want to make sure that y’all are knowing when you
Walk into this that it will be more rigid than a year-to-year working of this Council that’s the only part and if you do it that’s your your business right and when you when you speak about the uh impact on the Surplus right um what imp impact does that have on bond
Rating so that’s a great question so typically the rating agencies they’re number one consideration is available cash they look at cash and equivalence meaning your fund balances and you’re meeting your fund balance policy which several years ago you were not now you’re there and you exceed it you’re in really very
Good shape as as I’ve presented to you before Dr Whitaker so from the rating agen standpoint if you don’t have structural balance that’s sort of almost onea if you know one is having dollars having available dollars a rainy day fund if you would we call that your unassigned
Fund balance and that’s what you’re in good shape but then number onea is that you have a structurally balanced budget and really all I’m saying here is that if you are able to control your own destiny and that means that you get to go directly to to your folks in terms of
Your your work your Workforce and can be more flexible and Nimble versus something that was created imagine this imagine if you ended up in collective bargaining one year or one month before you had coid hit I mean could you just imagine a required three or fiveyear
Period of increases or years ago you had layoffs you had fur you had any number of things that you had to do all of those un undoubtedly are not going to be something that are going to be possible going forward I mean they may say that there’s examples
But and so the impact of uh the impact on the bond rating uh what just so the citizens and what does that do financially to the so that is directly tied to your tax rate and your ability to take care of not not only service the debt which would be higher if your
Ratings are lower or were higher when your ratings were lower but also as you improved your ratings you may recall I was in front of y’all multiple times to refinance because we’re able to lower the costs of our debt so that is one of those vestiges of having a really strong
Credit rating is that you were so desirable in the marketplace for investors that’s not the case everywhere in the Commonwealth we don’t as you know so it’s really about saving dollars it’s really about being more competitive it’s really about having more dollars to go
To be able to do a 7% raise on your own valtion versus having some experts that construct an agreement for multiple years so the last thing I would point out is when we see it here Yes Virginia Beach is one of my clients and and and we hear some some some discussion I’m
Not as close to that I don’t do the day-to-day of of the Virginia Beach as one of my colleagues does but by and large where we’re seeing this and where it has moved forward is up in Northern Virginia um we see several places um
What I don’t have here for you is any of the places that have said thank you but no thank you as it relates to collective bargaining I can tell you because I represent probably 3ar of all the counties in in in the state in the Comm
Um the majority of them have said no thank you for the moment that could always change but much more have said no than said yes um so again but doesn’t make it right or wrong you just every local government’s different so I think I I’ll just I’ll end there if
That’s okay hold on uh we have a couple more colleagues have questions vice mayor Lucas Burke ma’am you have the floor thank you mayor um thank you Mr Rose for the presentation to this point um I guess my question was um with the general fund as well you referenced the
5% increase in the compensation um about tied being tied to the bond rating um and that’s in the event that we do nothing that we don’t continue to um have in uh revenues to come in through um businesses and um entertainment venues and other opportunities that the city would work
With that is just if we just stop working Al together um that 5% would impact our um Bond rating it could and I think again it’s going to be a pattern uh vice mayor meaning one year I I I I won’t see us having our
Credit rating lost in a one year but I think if we show a pattern of a couple three years then certainly they will not look at us with the strengths they see which is again structural balance and adding to fund balance those things would no longer be realistic in fact if
Anything we might be taking away from fund balance to to just take care of existing payments so uh again you know we’ve all seen this change very quickly um so again I just you know me I’m I’m conservative um so I just want to make
Sure y all know yeah but we um we’re here to make sure that we do everything to make sure our city stays sound as well and that includes keep keeping our revenues and our businesses and any other options that would bring a additional Revenue um back to the city
So that we can continue to invest into um that Bond um that general fund but also that there’s something called midterm bargaining where um if there’s something that’s not going right um we could take a look at that and then also the council is going to be responsible for writing into our bargaining
Agreement what we would like or what we would not like so that would be an opportunity for us to address some of those concerns at that time whether uh the fund balance goes below a certain amount that we would have to put a halt on a contract or something to that
Effect so I hear you councilman hugle you have the floor sir yeah thanks Mr May thanks Mr Rose for for the presentation this was really a very important uh aspect that we need to look at carefully so on the general fund slide uh in one place you mentioned that
We have done a 7% wage increase in this fiscal year another place you say but a 5% increase would chew up more than our kind of average Surplus well in fact I think even though we’ve done a 7% raise we’re still tracking toward a surplus this year that’s right and so to the
Vice mayor’s point if we don’t turn any other knobs and we just let this go then we’re headed to a disaster potentially but the fact is we are going to turn other knobs which is what was done in order to allow us to do a 7% pay raise
And continue to contribute rute uh toward the the accumulation uh in the uh in the fund balance um in the school slide I I think it’s worth pointing out that that whether city council elects to or elects to not go to collective bargaining has no impact on the schools and school compensation because
Collective bargaining in the school system is the school board’s call not our call so any decision that we make will have no impact there now it’s worth pointing out that in our discussions with the school superintendent they’re currently doing a salary survey because of their concern about teacher salaries
And and other salaries in the school system so we we probably should anticipate that we’re going to see some Financial pressure from the schools coming back to us but but collective bargaining or no collective bargaining we’re going to see that um because they’re right I think they’re going to
Find that they’re out of kilter now the good news is I think that our 7% increase has put us back in kilter and so again as the vice mayor said uh when we sit down at the table kind of the starting place in the compensation discussions is well how we doing
Compared to other communities in the area and if we’re in the ballpark and that raise is going to absolutely put us in the ballpark then the opening Salvo ought not to be what Richmond’s going through which is opening Salvo we need an 11% compensation increase across the
Board which is costing them a whole lot of money but when they did their salary survey they discovered in fact they hadn’t fixed their salaries the way that we have addressed our city salaries and Public Safety salaries over the last couple of years uh one other comment uh so so back
In your other considerations uh you mentioned that uh uh if we have an agreement it’s probably going to be a 3 to 5e agreement I agree with that it does lock Us in kind of okay so the Virginia Statute has a financial Escape Clause so using your Co example if Co
Were to hit you can be darn sure that we’re going to go back to the table and say hey uh We’ve looked at our city finances and and something that got baked into the collected bargaining agreement compensation wise across that three-year period let’s say a uh null
And void ain’t going to work because it’s going to bankrupt the city so there is that escape Clause that’s important in the in the Virginia Statute and and in city council hands to uh again another lever that is available to use in uh you know if we need to uh to pull
The ejection handle so I’m offer you the opportunity to make any comments to my comments but think those are well I I I personally appreciate your comments uh ad um again I think you hit on it and that is the first way you go into that collective bargaining is going to be
Critical because it will set the stage for years to come yeah so I think we want to be careful uh that it is really as the gentleman said it really is in our favor our favor meaning the local government because I’ve seen the worm turn you know over 43 44 years I’ve been
Doing this and you know uh it happens so we just have to be careful like I said it may be very very good for Portsmith as long as we’re going in widey and it sounds like a lot of you are thinking that way is that we’re going to be very
Prudent and not expect every year to be better than the previous year I mean you know it’s interesting that right now you you look at it and sort of every single year we’ve see increases in assessed value in general throughout the Commonwealth but we also remember when those things were not the
Case so when we get that kind of negative I just want to make sure we’re we’re ready for it so again I don’t have uh a dog in the fight other than I just want to make sure that if I if I’m still asked to come back in three or four
Years and things are moving to the negative we have the ability to to sort of really do that and not be a really contentious situation uh that’s important to me yes sir so so this brief that you provided us tonight is the shot across the bow to remind us to go into this
Wide-eyed uh and carefully if we just to if we make that decision yes sir so thank you for that thank you so much you have the floor thank you mayor um so vice mayor Lisa Lucas Burke and councilman Mark hugle they kind of hit on some of my points already already but
Um it was made mentioned and I just want to put some clarity to this that um while Portsmith is considered to be one of the most physically stressed cities um in the region that in a presentation that was given to City Council in November of
2018 um it was made mention as a key takeaway and the statement was Portsmouth ranks the most physically stressed City in the region possesses the highest percentage of tax exempt property and has the highest dependency ratio yet the city imposes a comparable or even lower tax burden in the context
Of income for the two commonly cited measures of tax burden and so I just want to say that while we may be physically uh fiscally strapped based on our City’s policies and tax policies we’re doing a good job Absolut compared to other cities so I don’t want the narrative that we are
Physically strapped that we have no money to be a narrative that’s being cast out to the public well well let me let me underscore that to your point okay that’s why you have strong credit ratings you have good dollars in the bank that are over and above your
Policies and like I said you run structurally balanced and on top of that you have again proven year in and year out that you operate within your means so all of that is important and the citizens should heed what you’re saying and hopefully they hear what I’m trying
To reiterate which is that’s the case all I’m also saying is I remember some of the darker days whether it was here whether it was Hampton whether it was any number of places and when we just know there’s really tough times we just want to make sure that we’ve got those
Cushions in place we’ve got the safeguarded place as the Admiral said shot across the bow and I’m just trying to make sure you know that’s why I wear dark suits you know because you know um Economist famous economist many years ago Thomas malus he said you know econom
You know economics is the Dismal science that’s what he called it so that’s why I wear a dark suit you know so that’s how we do it but on a on a serious note um yes the city is works with its means and it just has to be careful it’s not easy
For us us me and the city to do as other places might say we’ll just add some tax rate to it that’s that’s not easy for us to do as you know so yeah most definitely and I appreciate that um because you know one thing that we’ve
Been getting from a lot of the presentations which the state code States is that it’s up to the municipality on how Collective baring comes about and so the fact that we have done right throughout the last at least since 2018 um with our uh policies internally
Shows and to me that gives confidence to the public that we will do right as far as the policies as we’re considering collective bargaining um and that we have that ability as was mentioned to turn the knobs um to what needs to be funded here and you know XY Y and Z and
So I just want to you know give that confidence to the public that um we are in good standing and we’re going to continue to stay in good standing um while we do the due diligence to uh work towards what needs to be done so thank you absolutely councilman Moody you have the
Floor thank you mayor and uh good evening uh Mr Rose uh you mentioned a penny is worth a million I think you and I can remember in Portsmouth when a penny was worth in 400,000 uh level so uh and I think that’s indicative of the growth that we’ve had
Fiscal growth Revenue growth that we’ve had as a city uh with that said uh and I think the vice mayor mentioned it uh these numbers uh pertain to uh no growth as as things stay the same but I would also think in a 3 to 5e contract uh
That it would be good from a fiscal planning standpoint to know what your uh payroll expense is going to be going forward uh I think something can be said for that is that not absolutely in fact um one of the things the rating agencies like is to see a five-year forecast
Under different scenarios so I think that would be an excellent way to do that councilman absolutely yeah and and I think with the safeguards that we all have mentioned that uh we need be need to be in an ordinance uh I think to protect us from any fiscal uh Calamity
Or natural disaster what whatever comes down the pike I think if we have that uh in the ordinance I think that’s that’ll be the important document to uh help protect us from anything like that and I would like to think that the people that would be on the other side of the table
Uh they would uh be willing to uh understand the need for that as well well again I I like the way youall are thinking about making sure however whoever negotiates you know attorney or whatever that you memorialize it and make it clear and and try to make sure you take into
Consideration things that may seem very remote but are very possible so again if we can be of help you know where I you know where I am on that but I’m certainly no negotiate I’m not trying to I’m busy enough as it is but to the
Extent we can throw in a two two cents we’re happy to do that thanks Dr Whitaker you have the floor sir yeah U Mr Rose I’ve I’ve heard you make presentations over the years to council and what I heard you address and say is
Is not a shot across the bow um I don’t thinkk you were just giving us a warning shot to be aware um it sound like you’re a little more specific uh than that and I I think that again that Council needs to address the question and and the
Citizens do too is if what is it that spending all of the millions of dollars for collective bargaining what is it going to gain that the firefighters and police already don’t have I think that’s a very relevant question and I haven’t heard anything in any presentation that would justify spending
Those millions of dollars uh for what’s already being achieved the other issue is one I raised earlier with u mral and that was the public versus private um the expenses that the private sector incurs because of requests for increased salaries um that’s passed on to the consumer through increase in
Pricing well if counil has to do that uh that’s that’s passed on to the taxpayers however increasing the price of bread by 5 cents versus increasing your tax rate um that’s a big difference and so I I just want to uh say that um there’s a knob out here keep hearing
About these knobs that going to be turned there’s a knob that I think we have to be very conscious of um and that is our school system uh the buildings the um Staffing uh the the state has already significantly cut our school system and it never caught up and so that’s that’s
A knob that’s out here in a uh City such as ours um that will always have to to have significant attention and I don’t want us to uh Overlook that and so I don’t see this as a shadow of the bow I see it as something very emphatically
That you are quoting um uh Bond rating agencies with caution and so um and again I I appreciate Mr Whitaker Dr Whitaker I mean um again that you’re making a number of points and that really is purview of you and your colleagues that’s that’s really not my
World at all it’s just not it’s but what my world is is again and that’s why I appreciate a very robust discussion tonight that I feel like hopefully if I’ve done one little thing tonight and that is to say let’s try to be extra vigilant when if and when you go into
Collective bargaining we have those outs we have it away from just what the state or the Commonwealth may say is a is a provisor that we can do I would personally like to make sure it’s in there explicitly with certain different uh maybe examples or what have you again
Showing my navity I’m not a negotiator that’s not my world but what I do know again is there’ll be some cautionary uh issues for the rating agencies they’re not fatal by any means if they were that would be a whole another kettle of fish but we just have to make sure this
Doesn’t look like son of Nassau County which was uh again just a from my perspective just a a Calamity I mean crazy to see that happen and and I have a son in law enforcement so I understand you know again making sure they’re taken care of but again I just think that
There’s a balance here and if yall have going to work towards that I get it right and there hasn’t been any um I would say facts presented that the fire nor police have not been taken care of you you didn’t not say something what I
Was okay let me let me go ahead Mr Rose I did have a question yes ma’am um in talking about about about the the fund balance and how we utilize those dollars I was thinking about we just this this past uh may we had voted on a reduction
In our tax rate as you were aware we we had one of the highest tax rates property tax rates in the region and we did a 5c reduction yes sir credit and and so when we’re thinking about these things because I understand and and I know you’re not the The Negotiator but I
Just want to remind the citizens that collective bargaining bargaining is a negotiation process and people don’t have to agree and when people don’t agree it’s all sounds good but when people don’t agree just like me and my wife don’t agree all the time things can get it can get a little bit con
Conflicted the reason I want to make that statement is because what we’re essentially doing is in our city we’re doing well financially but as we talked about I’m a financial guy too in the terms of I want to make sure I have enough in the in the kitty in the worst case
Scenario and we have a lot of our citizens who are aging we have a lot of our underserved citizens we have other competing needs as as Dr Whitaker was saying and if at this time and I know you don’t deal with the collective bargaining piece if there is not a
Compelling reason why we should enter into another financial obligation because this will be a financial obligation why why would why would one enter in something like that based on your experience would would would do M municipalities behave that way generally you ask a very good question mayor you
Know it it seems to me and I don’t know the answer here but what I believe is with your adjustments in 24 fiscal year 24 you have moved very much into a highly competitive area in terms of compensation in the Hampton Roads area in in this area I may be wrong about
That but that’s sort of what I when I take a step back I believe that’s the case all right so I’m if I’m wrong please tell me and I would say to to the interim city manager correct me but that’s what I see at least from the
Outside if I’m understanding it so that really then begs the question will having collective bargaining make it so that you’re not going to see as much bleed from some of the various we’ll call it employees Workforce um you know that’s the you ask about the compelling element is if
That’s going to be something that could be helpful but if you’re not seeing that right now I I’m again I’m I’m a simple guy I don’t really know what collective bargaining does if the workforce is happy if they’re being competitively compensated and they’re being properly treated um but again that’s me as an
Outsider thank has asked for the floor so ma’am you have the floor and I’ll do and then I have portion of my presentation to do is what can you hear me no not really okay so I’ll ask this question but um when you say if we do nothing and
We stand still we are you know it looks like we will be on our average but this city is actually not standing still uh again we’re looking at a reduction of real estate taxes uh assessments may go up or down you know it just depends on
The market um we’re looking to we are definitely competitive in our wages because we want to retain uh the best the best and the brightest for this organization um but we also know that down the road we’ll be acquiring more debt and so those things and with debt
Comes Debt Service payments which will increase so it’s just making this statement I understand that you know we don’t have a crystal ball to see in the future but we know the current requirement well we know currently the the priorities we have for the city and
The fiscal impact of those and adding um another Debt Service because I’ll call it that because there are some additional expenses that may come along with wanting more pension benefits and some other things and again I want to remind us that this is just not for fire
This would be across the board I think we just get caught up because fire has a union right now that came and spoke before us but we’re talking about across the Citywide not just one organization that would be able to unionize um so I guess that was more of a statement than
A a question because when we say if we do nothing else but we’re doing other things and just being able to see additional revenue streams when we are now looking at a reduction in real estate tax to benefit and give a relief Tri our citizens is where we’re trying
To invest our dollars so if you have anything else no I can go ahead with my portion of the presentation I don’t think there’s anything else I appreciate it and thank you for Mr Rose thank you as always sir much all right thank you m Terry you have the Floor if it would please Council I would like to do my portion of the presentation from before you yes yes ma’am please proceed again good evening porsa family this is uh the portion of the presentation where I am going to try to summarize some things and answer the questions or
Hopefully with an attempt to answer some of the questions that Council had that I really didn’t hear answered during the portions of presentations that we actually had over the course of several weeks can you hear me um so I want to start with saying what are our options tonight what I’m
Asking or what we are here to do is to approve collective bargaining by an adoption or a resolution of a resolution or ordinance or reject collective bargaining by adoption of a resolution or ordinance who can participate we went over that again I just want to remind Council and the public that this we’re
Looking at all city employees are able to unionize and would be required to participate no elected officials constitutional officers nor their employees would be allowed to participate what has the city currently provided Citywide this has been a question that has been asked so when we look at this when I
First came back in 20120 and back in 2023 we had a vacancy rate in many of the Departments that was about 66% vacant so we’re trying to rightsize our organization we are I remember fire came up the chief and did a presentation saying they didn’t they were reduced
They had very few applicants for firefighters now there is actually a waiting list to become a firefighter because we have we don’t have any uh positions available uh address employee class and compensation pay we’ve done that for all public safety as well as for city employees and that will continue to be
Ongoing the city has absorbed The increased cost of health insurance premiums over the past 3 years what used to happen is increased es with health insurance would go up and then the employees would get a general wage increase and that would absorb their increase so the city has absorbed the
Increase in health insurance cost by adding some additional plans in that have been able to leverage the increase in cost every year so our employees can actually see an increase provided additional well annual General wage increases for employees we’ve done that over the past 3 years
That I’ve been here we matched what the state paid this year um we were able to give bonuses and retention bonuses and Frontline bonuses over the years that I’ve been here because we had additional funding through arpa updated educational requirements for Recruitment and Retention when we looked at the the rate
Vacancy rate we looked back at what is causing us not to get employees in um certain level labor level positions so we went back back and we looked at the educational requirements so we were able to change some of the educational requirements if they had certain years
Of service for certain positions as well as certifications in those areas and so we’ve been able to do that as well as having Workforce Development and we have some of our employees who are now going to get their GED and their CDL license so that has increased or allowed us to reduce our
Vacancies again continuous development of coherent strategies surrounding diversity equity and inclusion as you know we as a organization have been working with diversity equity and inclusion and we are um continuing to do that as we move forward improve uniformity we are working together as a structured organization now and you will
See Ed our trucks our vehicles our uniform our uniforms we are moving as one team with our employees now increased safety measures again that all comes with training and being able to identify areas of need where we need to um increase safety and we are doing that together collectively improved employee
Morale by creating fairness and equity in the workplace that speaks for itself revamp the pay structure class and pay plan to enhance fairness and competitiveness what has the city currently done for fire address pay compression increase Department staff and compliment you all know that they come before you and ask
For additional um positions and we have been able to do that I think my first year they asked for 17 my second year I think they asked for five in this past budget they increased it by an additional five for EMS revamp pay structure class and pay plan to enhance fairness and
Competitiveness that speaks for itself pay allowance increases in 2024 budget so in other words they have additional allowances for different steps or for different um things that they do within the fire department Department that gives them an additional pay allowance um Career Development progression steps implemented for EMS paramedics now we
Have one twos and threes th a Progressive Progressive progression steps for our EMS paramedic and firefighters improved working conditions fire and EMS facilities we’re constantly doing that and we’re doing that every day we’re finding what the needs are and we’re actually addressing those City funded vrs health and lung benefits we
As a city has funded that the firefighters came um to council asked for that request the chief bought that request before me doing budget deliberations and we added that as part of the funded benefit for f for EMS options to use City or Civil Service Commission grievance procedures
Currently if there is a grievance you can go to the Civil Service and you have that commission and or you can go through the city grievance procedure policy procedures uh right now I think 99% use the city’s grievance practice and procedure they don’t really use Civil Service I think
It’s a little more aggressive than they want um so they use the cities what is the current um what are we still currently Ved we increase Fleet Fire EMS apparatuses we got a new fire engine um we got that in June a new medic arrived in may we had another new
Medic that will be arriving this month or next month another one December 2024 because of the length of time it takes to build these um apparatuses we have um another one that’s coming in the fall of 2024 we have a new aerial ladder that’s coming in 2024 Community Response Team vehicle
Arrived in April remember BHA BHS funded that for that vehicle um two Battalion command Vehicles they were ordered in October um what was the city and and I want to go back to this real quick I remember there being a conversation where fire came up up and said they were
Having to borrow Vehicles Council heard that issue and Council addressed it with the budget what is the city currently providing for fire health and safety initiatives um Mr OK Conor talked about grant funding we’ve actually addressed that there’s some cancer cancer screening funding for Grants uh the fire
Chief is always always always plus always some more going after grant funding to cover the cost so it would not be an impact on the city traffic control signals I mean it the list goes on um with grants and we this year uh we shared with you the 911 emergency
Medical dispatch Center accreditation we received um The Crisis Intervention training program um we actually created a training area a training center under at uh social services so they don’t have to go to um different sites to have their training I think they were at the
Um Safety Town so now they have a area uh for their training at Department of Social Services um peer accreditation theyve submitted that for office of EMS critical incident stress management and various fire facility improvements again what are the operational impacts of having collective bargaining limited flexibility and
Reduces the ability to quickly respond loss of and again this is operational across the city this is just not fire because again we have Public Safety we have Services we provide to all of our citizens loss of direct communication between supervisors and employees because then you would have the union
Invested for arbitration um under emphasis on S seniority and the employment relationship again s seniority gets funded I should say versus the other people who are there seniority hits first um unions can sometimes be viewed as adversarial peer-to-peer manipulation again you have a situation you don’t join a union you don’t get the
Golden ticket and there are some other things that come to dealing with peer-to-peer manipulation and you have to pay into your dues we require layers of review and new formality ities I think we’ve all heard that several times by the attorney different attorneys and in sessions increase operational cost uh
Our financial advisor has already provided that information creation of new positions specific to collective bargaining we’ve seen that in heard that presentation and we all are aware of that of that need an increase in wages and benefits for employees again there may be some additional pinion calls associated with wanting to become a
Union um labor collective bargaining I think we’ve touched on that and what we already are paying into our retirement system but I know things like that come up as part of a bargaining U mechanism increasing payroll costs and expenses those things you will definitely see over time but again across the board all
Of our employees we’re working with that now and that concludes my presentation um and this and I am open for questions Dr Whitaker you have the floor sir two issues as you brought up dues payment who determines the amount of dues I would think the union the union the union determines
That okay yes and also I I would like to um hear from the chief of police and the uh fire chief in regards to um the impact of unionization on um their position do we mind if I do we do that tonight since you all have to make a
Determination oh oh I don’t mind if if they’re if they’re going to be available at the later meeting that’s fine oh at 7 o’ which I I wanted to hear from them to you know tonight either here or the later meeting Chief n okay does that please counsil I don’t
Want to step out of line I think it’s important to hear a Viewpoint um from from from uh the chief if if the councilman has made a request I don’t see a problem with it mayor VI mayor members of city council and Dr wher could you ask your question again please
Yes um as far as unionization how would that impact uh your position as Chief as far as any hiring recruitment discipline um paying um salaries uh how how would you be impacted in your managing iial role yes so so what I know about um the the preparation for collective bargaining
And I understand that it’s just the first step that’s coming forward so I would have to guess or I’ll be saying a guess on what the impact is because some um contracts out there in Virginia for fire departments will exclude certain areas right so there are areas that can
Be excluded that would not affect my ability to to hire or promote whatever is because it would just maintain the administrative policy of the city so to say if it’s going to negative impact me that’s up in the negotiation side so um you that that’s really the best answer
That I could give you so so you’re saying you won’t you you’re not able to answer that until when yeah so when the when the Rules of Engagement um are decided my assumption is with Council and City because you all have to decide what is part of the collective
Bargaining um agreement so there are there’s a portion with um compensation and benefits but but also there’s a portion there when it comes to the administration of the organization itself okay thank you you’re welcome councilman till you have the floor thank you mayor um I’m glad to hear that there’s been so
Many uh advancements made um in the fire department across Citywide uh my question is in regards to the Creer development progression steps implemented by EMS emt1 123 and firefighters one two and 3 um have those paramedics fire and firefighters 2 and three been notified of their new
Step increases uh and if so how many were able to move up to those levels so those came with the budget so Council adopted the budget in 2024 for those uh grades and changes so based on the promotional process those at that point they will be notified based on the
Promotional process within the department but Chief Nester can speak to that yeah I can address that yes so we just finished the policy internal policy on making those um appointments because it’s a non-competitive appointment basically is years in service and certain um certification requirements
And we had to base it off of the job description for each one so we worked with an internal team uh Personnel led by battalion chief we had the local 539 representation we had um other people that were involved with the process itself they what they were going to gain
In it and so forth so with everything else going on with budget um it’s still on my desk but that is a priority to get done by the first of this year to make sure that we can make the next level of career steps which will be EMS paramedic
2os and firefighter um twos gotcha so the policy has been drafted and created it just hasn’t been implemented just yet per yes sir yes sir gotcha but I do want to just remind everybody we did have gwi which was the 7% and we did do the comp um compression pay for fire as
Well Chief before the before the chief of police come can our fire chief come back I have a question okay and this this is an an inquiry as well um was there a vote of no confidence taken against you yes sir was that by the union yes sir and so you don’t foresee
Unionizing is going to cause a negative impact on you well as as far as the working relationship that we have today um right that that to me that’s in the past it’s interesting that you got a vote of no confidence within the context of view diversifying the fire department
Historically at numbers that we had not seen previously and so I don’t like to play games and I think that that needs to uh be very transparent um in regards to what we’re about to do thank you yes sir councilman Moody sir you have the floor ch ch Chief you okay chief would
You go ahead I’m sorry and then I’ll entertain councilman Hugo and then Dr Whitaker you have you still want them oh no that’s okay yes sir Chief please sure uh good evening mayor vice mayor members of city council uh Madam city managers Madam City attorney so you know me I
Don’t mix words too much when I come up here uh so obviously uh as a police chief uh I do have some concerns about collective bargaining and its implementation uh as it relates to uh my ability to be able to address issues within my organization uh and so uh you know
Obviously I’ve heard a lot of the presentation so far as the uh options that are given to council if uh put into the uh language early on which uh offers some uh some comfort uh however that information uh definitely needs to be spelled out clearly and and defining
Because again uh for for my standpoint uh I see it as a potential adversarial uh position uh with all with the already uh sometimes uh challenging environment the other thing that I would uh also um uh like to highlight is that I think that uh one of the main issues
That uh we’ve been discussing uh over the course of time and again I’m internal person here so I’m not going to stand here and act as if I don’t know what a lot of what Public Safety has dealt with over the years and that is uh consistent and fair pay raises over the
Time so I think if we uh took the time to come up with a uh comprehensive pay plan and then fully implemented on a regular basis if nothing but every other year in increments I think that a lot of this conversation would be done with uh
Lastly uh I want to uh to highlight that again um you’ve not seen any police officers up here for this conversation uh we are again uh very much um in support of our fire department and the job that we do as Public Safety but when it comes to the
Conversation of collective bargaining um we are uh I have not had much conversation with people that work within my organization concerning it and I have bought it up most recently as last week in a public uh form with supervisors uh so again uh there’s a lot
Of information that is uh unknown and I think it definitely needs to uh have um a lot more conversation um so that we as Leaders um of uh of within the city department heads have the ability to manage our organizations properly thank you Chief Admiral uh councilman Hugo you have the floor sir
Yeah thanks Mr Mayor uh so to the interim city manager I appreciate the additional information tonight I particularly appreciate the laundry list of good things that you and your team including both Chiefs have done for our employees and the list of those things uh during your time that we saw tonight
Is long and impressive uh and it speaks to the concern that you and your team show to take care of the people who are serving the the city and so so I appreciate that we don’t agree on a whole lot of things up here on the deis but I think one of
The things we do agree with yuan is if we don’t take care of our people then the city isn’t going to run the way the city needs to run uh and so so we have been supportive of of the things that uh that you listed um uh on your laundry
List I I guess I would point out though how did the list get so long of of unaccomplished things on behalf of our people how did the list get so long of the equipment that we needed and we weren’t in the process of procuring until you took took that aboard really
Till we took that aboard and and got after the problem and so I asked Mr OK Conor uh about uh the benefit from his perspective of collective bargaining and the thing that he spoke to was consistency in engaging with leaders well the fact is City leadership hasn’t
Had a lot of consistency at the city manager level City leadership attitudes haven’t been consistent from one city council to the next to the next and so right now we have a city manager who cares to make sure that we’re taking care of our folks and a city council that supports the
City manager to do that but it wasn’t that way apparently before if it was we wouldn’t have had a laundry list of things that needed to be addressed over this past year and so to the to Mr OK Conor’s Point uh someday you’re not going to be
The city manager Someday I’m not going to be the city councilman someday they’re going to be dealing they are our employees are going to be dealing with a new set of leadership and if that group doesn’t care the way this group cares about taking care of our folks then there won’t be consistency
And we will have pay compression reoccur and we will fall down in the pay that we’re offering to our employees compared to other folks in the region and so therefore in my opinion one of the benefits and I heard it from our our Union uh uh representative is this
Consistency issue because it won’t matter that you’re not the city manager and I’m not the city councilman anymore if we have a collective bargaining agreement that at least provides some stability okay uh across the period of the collective bargaining agreement now Dr Whitaker asked the the the Chiefs for their
Opinions uh and I appreciate both of their opinions and and it’s really important to hear from them I I I appreciated the um particularly Chief maab BET’s uh honesty in saying well you know what’s the impact to me it depends on what gets written into the collective bargaining
Agreement because if it gets written wrong then the impact to the to the leadership in the city could be enormous which goes back to we can’t do this if we aren’t committed to doing it right and so we just got to do it right we got
To put the time in we got to think of scenarios could you put your last slide up please the impact slide and I I want after you finish I do want to yes ma’am so so I want to talk to this impact slide because I got a little bit of
Experience in a collective bargaining environment right down the street so I’m going to I want to share with the public my experience on these bullets okay limited flexibility and reduces the ability to Qui quickly respond I can guarantee you that the United States Navy isn’t going to put up with a lack
Of response from one of their nuclear shipyards even though I had half a dozen unions that every single one had their own collective bargaining agreement with with Shipyard leadership and so you do it right there’s a way to fix that the next one loss of direct communication between supervisors and employees that’s
Crazy okay it’s crazy now do the union leaders have a seat at the table and therefore a voice on on behalf of the workers they absolutely do that’s kind of the whole point so part of this is figuring out who are the supervisors and who are the workers and
Therefore who’s in the collective bargaining agreement and who’s not and then making sure that the leadership team reinforces to our supervisors hey just because your folks are union employees the fact is the firefighters right now they’re already Union employees and we don’t have that problem
Well maybe we do but but but we we don’t have to have that problem if we have communicated to our supervision we expect engagement between the supervisors and the employees and the engagement cannot be sit down and do it the way I told you because I told you so
Because that kind of behavior leads to people driving trash trucks down narrow Alleyways and nobody telling you that it’s a problem until you go out and follow the trash truck down the narrow Alleyway and figure out this is dumber than dirt now why did the city manager
Have to find that problem instead of let us listen to the to the poor lady who’s driving the trash truck every week down the narrow Alleyway and risking bumping into cars and fences and everything else all the stuff that we talked about when we watched that happening why didn’t why didn’t they
Bring those issues forward well I don’t know but the fact that you had to go do the process Improvement by going out and looking at it yourself in my opinion is a big problem because we can’t afford to have the city manager be the only person in the city government that’s figuring
Out what processes we need to improve okay next bullet over emphasis on seniority uh the fact is we’re we’re decompressed in pay because we weren’t paying for experience now you can call experience seniority if you want to but the fact is the only way you get a police officer
That’s got 10 years of experience is to hire him 10 years ago and when he walks out the door that 10 years of experience is impossible to replace next item sir sir sir excuse me we we we if you could condense it a little bit yep yep CU you know so unions
Can be adversarial absolutely they can part of the deal but the fact is we’ve seen some some social media behavior from from the firefighter Union that kind of irritated us they shouldn’t have to go to social media to complain that we didn’t that we aren’t taking care of
The number of uh ambulances they ought to have a seat at the table so we can have the discussion peer-to-peer manipulation I’m not even sure what that means uh requires of review new formalities absolutely that’s true that’s the investment that we’re going to have to make to figure out how do we do
Collective bargaining the right way and fairly and there is an investment now I’ve heard Folks up here say millions and millions of dollars so Fairfax County set aside a million dollars to to implement collective bargaining and they have many more employees than we have city of Alexandria set aside $850,000
To implement collective bargaining to start the conversation so that’s that’s but that’s to start the conversation to get the collective bargaining agreement in place once it’s in place you’re right we got care and feeding that we have to do with some Labor Relations Staffing on your team that doesn’t exist right now but
It’s not dozens of people I mean in the shipyard I had seven times more employees than you got here in the city and and I had a a a pretty compact crew that took care of it and believe me it wasn’t millions and millions of dollars
At least I don’t think I paid him that okay um increased operational costs okay maybe depending on how we negotiate salaries going forward uh new positions yep you’re right Labor Relations people we got to have them and increases in wages and benefits maybe okay coming
Back to we just fixed that and so I wouldn’t expect and this is a shot across the bow for you Union guys I wouldn’t expect that the first thing out of the starting blocks is going to be give us a 5% pay raise because we just are giving them 7%
And that brings us back into the the average band and and then the payroll cost and expenses kind of the same argument so we got to be careful if we’re going to do this that we do it right I appreciate you listening to your concerns hey I get
It this is a lot of extra work for you and your team that you don’t have to do today kind of but the fact of the matter is whether you do it formally or whether you do it informally by having to deal with the issues that are going on around
The city where your Workforce is out there doing their their hard work every single day and some of them are doing it and saying you know there’s a better way to do this job but I can’t seem to get anybody to listen to me until the city manager manager goes
Out and sits down with those employees that ain’t the right place to have that discussion on how we get more efficient in the way we deliver services for employees sir yes ma’am yes so thanks and thanks mayor I’m done yes Dr Whitaker you have the floor and I’ll
Close it out then we have a motion for a closed session did the city manager Madam did you need to say something I’m absolutely not going to take the whole no go ahead 500 hour and and let me just can I can I preface something for the
Audience if if we could just pause for a minute that we normally start our meeting of course at 7:00 this is a very important issue it’s is very important to a lot of folks in the room we want to make sure that everybody is heard and that the appropriate information is
Shared so that’s why we’re going to continue to move in that particular order and once we’re done we’re going to go into a Clos session and then we will return out for the regular open session at that time thank thank you so real quick um when I look out into the
Audience I don’t see other city employees I only ever see fire but I also can give you a laundry list of things that have happened for fire um again I’ll just preference I won’t go through all these CU I dare not but we’ve come a long way but why do we have
To do this today the reason I say that is because I gave you all top 10 things that we want to do or we want to start considering we’re already looking at a budget for 24 we’re already looking at acquiring some infrastructure we’re already looking at acquiring or fixing
The things the basic things that we have neglected infrastructurally wise over the years we have some heavy lifts coming up we have additional things that we’re doing for for employees for retirees that we’re trying to address um we’re not in a state of lack but it we
Had to get right size first one of the things we’re looking at and that we’ve talked about is relief to our taxpayers there has to be a point where you invest back into the people that are paying because again without your citizens you can’t do any of this now that we finally
Got people realizing that Portsmouth does not own the casino that has kind of calmed down but we are looking for areas to develop to increase our revenue streams why we taking all of our money out the kitty right now with the unknown because again we’re still talking about
Unknowns we’re still talking about what we have to produce what we have to policy procedure blah blah blah blah blah but we still have real things priorities competing priorities for the city so do we take the money and the the food out of the mouths of the people who
Are actually paying they’re not missing anything and I don’t want to say just fire across the board we’re catching up give us a time to breathe deep and then once we get there let’s then look at what can we do to enhance to better again you’re right there are going to be
Some changes it happens but if I don’t get us where we can just do the basic then adding another sprinkle of something that’s going to create adversity that’s going to create issues you know you’re adding more again Collective bargain and guess what I could sit back and do nothing because
Every time I get a question or a need from one of the council I can say I’ll have to get with the union and we’ll let the union determine what they can do you can call me now citizens send me emails all day and I can send out my people to
Do and get the work done or at least to hurry up and follow up so I can give them some relief there will be no deep breaths because I’ll go into cardiac arrest before I can even help or get to that point they’re not lacking right now it is definitely incumbent on this
Council to make sure that whoever is in my seat whoever is on Council continues this move but let’s invest in the people who are investing in us first the citizens deserve a relief and I don’t want to take it from them before they can even get it that’s all I have to
Say thank you ma’am I think we can do both Dr Whitaker you have the floor sir uh yes not today yes um Madam inter city manager uh the chief was still if I had another question um for the chief chief of police Jenkins yes yes sir the chief you have been
Mentioned by this Council uh as being our top law enforcement person in the city yes sir you have been transparent with the citizens about our crime issue and you have had forums where you have spoken and you have the confidence of the community because of your forthrightness and because of how you
Have conducted yourself as chief of police when I hear you stand up here and say that as our top law enforcer and also the crime issue we’ve been dealing with and you state that the Union uh unionization of the police could cause issues with you and the management of your
Department I don’t see how we can just Overlook that and say that well um we need to put this in place to uh protect continuity well I think we need to make sure that you’re able and capable to do all you can to address the issues that citizens have been coming into our
Meetings and it has been in the media about our crime issue and and I think for this Council to undercut your management and what you do in that department is Not only would be a disservice to you but to our community this issue is highly politicized because anytime you’re
Talking about spending millions of dollars and the shipyard is not exactly a good example to use um as far as as unionization and Equity but when we are talking about spending millions of dollars to do something that is already being done I I think that’s irresponsible I would like to hear from
You now that um the citizens are here and I would like to hear you be a little more specific as far as your thoughts as to how unionization U might would [ __ ] what you do in a managing role as the chief of police uh yes sir so uh again I I
Want to make sure that I highlight uh a couple of things uh I’ve been in this city 21 years and and frankly um the city has been over the course of time has been very neglectful of its city employees uh the uh men and women of the Police Department fire department and
Other other city employees who have stayed over the years um have done so a lot of them out of loyalty and loyalty not only to the city but to one another and to getting the job done and so for them the ones that have stayed and continue to remain um their hope with
Seeing what has uh taken place over the last several months is progression with the city uh understand that this is a a very very large ship to be able to turn on a dime and so it doesn’t turn overnight but I think you see and I was
Just I can only speak for my my part uh we are now starting to see people come to the police department uh we just had uh 69 applicants apply to the police department we’re hoping to send 25 individuals at the minimum to the police academy so we are now
Starting to be able to see some things that are positive as it relates to my section of Public Safety and attracting people and the hopes of getting a police building the hopes of of better pay better facilities things of that nature however to get to the other side of
That collective bargaining does have the potential to make situations that we uh sometimes look at when we talk about issues of uh inclusion and diversity and things that nature more difficult uh than it should be policies that we put in place to address certain issues now
Have to be uh scrutinized even more to ensure that you aren’t not only violating uh federal policy your own City policy and departmental policy but now whatever reunion contract that you have in place to make sure that everybody uh again uh is has some level of understanding and is pleased about it
Uh the the hopes of of this and again I I think there’s a lot of this that can be handled if a comprehensive pay plan is put into place and I understand as a uh as a city we have not done that for a number of reasons but uh the the issue
That I had and many of folks that are in public safety especially is when we did have a pay plan um you could see those things go by and as one of the gentlemen came up and said earlier but of course we were in a different financial
Situation at the time so you would see those steps go by and no raise and so 5 years later we look up and I know I’m supposed to be there but I’m not and the person that I went to a regional academy with with they’re now making $5 to
$10,000 more than me that is an issue but we today are in a lot better place we’re competitive we understand I think this city realizes that to in order to attract and obtain the the best and brightest we’re going to have to pay we’re going to have to compensate folks
In that manner we’re going to have to provide better facilities we’re going to have to do those things that are necessary my fear is that uh individuals that I have in my organization that I I’m now starting to be able to get to buy into the progression that we are
Making we’re going to possibly step back because I’m adding an additional layer that sometimes may not be necessary and again I’ve had some conversation with uh other Chiefs across the country uh most recently uh was in uh September as it relates to uh collective bargaining those ones that actually have it uh we
Don’t know what that looks like I do say uh uh if if we’re going to take the the utilization of the Clause I think every opportunity should be uh put into that to ensure that we don’t paint ourselves and the leaders who are charged with uh
Running this ship paint them into a box where they’re not able to do what they need to do uh when they need to do it thank you Chief yes thank you Chief I’m I’m more concerned about us putting the money into the people uh versus poity and so I thank you yes
Sir councilman Moody sir you have the floor thank thank you mayor my response was going to be to the city manager but she sits right next to me so she she doesn’t need to go back to the elect ter uh but but she spoke of the unknown and
I think councilman hugle touched on this the people that deal with the unknown some of them are sitting in the audience tonight when our firefighters respond to a call they’re dealing with the unknown when the when the chief Jenkins uh police officers respond to a call they’re also dealing with the unknown
And every time a city manager changes every time a council changes those folks are dealing with the unknown when it comes to their financial stability I’ve sat here a number of years and and seen years where yes every year we haven’t had a Miss Terry that proposed a 7%
Increase uh stop and think next year is an election more than likely we’ll have some different council members so once again the people that we rely on to protect our lives will be dealing with the unknown not only will they be dealing with the unknown their families
Will be dealing with the unknown so that that’s not right and and the chief just said uh we’re going to have to well you know going to have to doesn’t always Prevail with a new Council and a new city manager going to have to sometimes leaves town and these people are left to
Come to this Council and and beg for and beg is the proper word beg for a salary increase inrease I’ve seen it for a number of years it’s not right we we need some consistency I think that was what uh uh councilman hugle said consistency we haven’t had it we need
It and that’s all I’m going say on the subject thank you okay before we go into close I I have one more comment to make before we go in read our close close session motion you know we’ve sat here and listened to a lot of information I I
Think to to uh my colleague councilman Hugo you know when we’re comparing Portsmouth to the shipyard when we’re when we’re asking questions of behavior of our Union Representatives um and and and making statements that they shouldn’t have to do that we should all act responsibly 100% And so in acting responsibly I
Think we have to look at this in a comprehensive way no one let let let me be clear because I know how the firefighter Union has has acted and I know how when you don’t support them they have acted they have acted in an unprofessional
Way and they have I’ve had to go to the president and ask him personally not to put my face and my name on Facebook and to ask his people not to do that I say that because in any situation whether you have collect Ive bargaining or not there are going to be personalities
There are going to be negotiations and guess what that is the real world collective bargaining no more makes it a better situation than before and yes I hear the the argument that it is a contract well guess what contracts get broken every day people grieve contracts every
Day the fact of the matter is you may not want a contract that you can’t get out of and I’m not speaking in favor or against but as the mayor the elected leader of this city who I ran and I’ve I’ve worked in this city I’ve paid the
Dues and many of us have up here but I support the citizens of this city and I’ll share this with you I was asked by the president of the Union the other night at an event do you support us and you know what I shared with them I said I support
The citizens of the city of porman and to the day I die I will continue to support the citizens of the city of porman and so if that means that you feel a certain way we’re one team we’re one family this council is going to make
A decision it’s going to be a decision before we make it we all need to understand that it is one that we all must live with and it’s not going to be a easy way if you don’t agree with the way people behave with the way that people conduct themselves because that’s
Just the way it is so I wanted to be clear uh mayor Glover isn’t against anybody I’m actually for everybody and I want us to consider to do the right thing that is in the best interest of the citizens of our city that is all I have to say and thank you for
Listening would you please read the the closed session oh m I’m sorry go ahead ma’am so I’m going do this pretty briefly CU I know you have a closed session um we have uh I’ll just say the the report number the grant amount um and the department uh CMR 23- 361 for 11
15,644 for adoption of a grant for the police department uh 23- 362 20540 adoption of the grant for the fire department 23- 363 $175,000 adoption of a grant for courts 23- 364 27592 adoption of a grant for Behavioral Health Services 23- 365 1.27 3783 million uh adoption of a grant for BHS 23-
3666 , 65 adoption of a grant for BHS 23- 367 25280 adoption of a grant for VHS 23- 368 29485 adoption of a grant for VHS BHS 23- 369 $40,000 adoption for a grant for BHS uh 23- 370 contract for the health department the uh fiscal year 24 agreement 23-7
371 uh adoption of a re resolution for V uh Transportation commitment that concludes my portion thank you ma’am and Madam vice mayor would you please read the closed session motion please yes I move to go into a Clos meeting a pursuant to Virginia code subsection 2.2 3711 A8 for the purpose of consultation
With legal councel employed or retained by the city regarding specific legal matters requiring the provision of legal advice by such Council specifically regarding collective bargaining and B pursuant to subsection 2.2 3711 a. 6 for the purpose of discussing or considering the investment of public funds will competition or bargaining is involved
Where if made publicly public initially the financial interest of the governmental unit would be adversely affected specifically regarding Hampton Roads Regional Jail and C pursuant to subsection 2.2 3711 a. 7 for the purpose of consultation with legal counsel pertaining to actual litigation where such consultation in open meeting would
Adversely affect the negotiating or litigating posture of the body specifically regarding Swinson versus city of Portsmouth Portsmouth circuit court case number CL 23577 d00 second we have a motion and a second council members would you please vote electronically we are in close session coming out of close and so
Madame vice mayor would you please read the motion yes I hear by move that each council member certified to the best of his or her knowledge one only public business matters lawfully Exempted from open meeting requirements under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act and two only such public business matters as were
Identified in the motion by which the closed meeting was convened were heard discussed or considered in the closed meeting just concluded we have a second second we have a motion and a second would you please vote electronically this item is adopted 60 that concludes our work session we
Will take a 10-minute break reconvene at 758
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