The views and opinions expressed by our host and guests are of their own opinion and experience and are not representative of their occupations houses of worship or any other intellectual property Athens Avenue is not liable for its audience’s adaptation of said experience over the next
Hour what is Athens a Athens a is a hangout where the body of Christ can come and wrestle with our witness in the world that is becoming increasingly intolerant to our presence to our position and most of all the praise to our god what is Athens AB it’s where we give
A Biblical world view on life and Ministry and seek to courageously respond to it as it’s happening you never know who you might see on Athens a on Athens a you’re going to hear gossip in the Pew you’re going to hear a fight on in this corner and on
Athens a we’ll provide wisdom from the menar it’s always going down on Athens a make sure you make a right on Athens A hey hey you know what I was thinking about when we came back I was thinking about when you were rapping did you want to kick the Run for the people no no oh you talking about when when uh first season when we first when we first when
First heard the beat yeah he was like this is going to beat beat the beat for our opening and you were like yes he sent this he sent us the smoothest rep I double check it I think I stillo have it it’s just a freestyle okay I’m just
Going to think it up as a freestyle well let me sit back years ago they tried to years ago they tried to put me in the did you want to try to read something from your book yeah okay so are you trying to say that you
Would not like me to post that in the event that I find it okay that’s the thing yeah okay okay well well welcome everyone to another episode of Athens Avenue I cannot believe I’m oh I’m your co-host Pastor son and your host is Dr La what’s up what’s
Up we’re glad that you’re the participation I’m new subscribers you know is getting out there is becoming a household name so thank you you who’s been watching who’s been subscribing who’s been sharing who’s been liking we appreciate that you know what I mean for sure for sure we do appreciate you and
Continue to keep the emails coming Athens Avenue podcast gmail.com I’m G to go ahead and bring the the mood up the last weeks or couple weeks we’ve been a little heavy so let’s go ahead and take a look at this video and see what you all Think oh what’s up my n neor in Christ hey man I just came from this chick’s house boy she had a mother from Jesus Bible study it was about Mary and all her biblical nature hey this your car man too this is the sh kind of Glorious paint job that make
You want to speak in Tong you speak in Tong that’s the Glorious paint job yeah yeah sh about a Honda go look man I’m sorry I don’t mean to be cursing around you I know you fith and I feel why you tripping man I ain’t
God I just work for him oh I this mother on I told this where you going that was too far it’s too far my bad really go ahead so what what do you think about what do you think about this do you have friends like this Dr La that
Are like I got I got friends I got family I got yeah yeah absolutely you know you know I mean because I’m still connected you know so everybody I hang around is not Christian everybody you know there there’s guys who can’t talk without dropping you know
F bombs and and and and they always say oh my bad my bad L my bad like you know like so you know and and it is what it is like I never correct a you know or challenge somebody on on what they say nonbeliever I like ah you know um or
Easy you know I I I find that you know they you know folks who who who do it like that you know there used to be a certain level of where to do it and who to do it with and if you had adults in the room you try to chill but we’ve
Become the adults in the room you know so it’s interesting I know what is that about you know so there is no you know sadly there aren’t many adults in the room many people in the room older than us our our uh older generation has passed on and so everybody cuss
Everybody says uh whatever comes out and and then there is this it there is a certain of sensitivity uh that that those who respect me have uh there’s a group who who who may just be anti- church or anti you know cuz anybody who do something gonna have some haters you
Know they may say something just to see how I’m going to respond but hey look at I I i’ rather see your heart change than your dialogue change once your heart change your dialogue will change so I ain’t got I ain’t got time to play with
What he was ready for this you know I know come on ain’t nobody coming around him like that n come on but but that’s not necessarily true bill goth yeah yeah and he said you should be shocked when you hear those words and things of that
Nature uh I share with my folk I’m not it’s not the first time I’ve heard it ain’t gonna say I can’t say I never used them I’m okay when people do it I respect them when they say hey sorry rev sorry I’m cool with that um but that is
Your dialogue but like what you said La you know I rather see you change because once you get saved and change then your dialogue once you because now I ain’t gonna lie to you now it ain’t always unsafe folk talking like that I was gonna say hold on hold hold the thing now
Because sure there’s some cussing Christians out there there are some cussing belie cussing Believers 100% was wild this I used to be much more offended by profanity kind of coming up up uh I’m not anymore um in fact I you wonder I wonder sometimes if uh someone who’s not a
Christian is not cussing in in normal conversation do they know something about me or da d da but it it’s you hear it so much and I’m not saying I’m desensitized to it but my level of expectation is just different I think the Lord has built in me a certain level
Of Grace because I’m G tell you what I may not do it outwardly yeah but last night I got up in the middle of the night and tripped over something he’s merciful so so so have the people lost respect for our our folks who are in leadership and in christom like you
Think that that’s what this world is coming there’s some there’s some who definitely lost respect but at the same time I was going to say I also think is it’s kind of hypocrisy when we could listen to Kevin Hart or listen to other comedians or you watching movie with
With cussing in it and that don’t bother you but if somebody say it in front of you then that bother you like hey you know cuz for me like it’s like when I’m watching something if it’s a whole lot of cussing for cussin I can’t take it
Like CU I just I just can’t I can’t like yo that’s just too much for me you know and so my brother normally watch something here give me the like thumbs up I’m like n this is too much for you this is not so something cuz some stuff
Man I just don’t I don’t want to hear it I don’t want it in my spirit and I just don’t want it right you know what I mean so you know but I think those of us who who would sit there and could watch all
Of that stuff and hear all of that stuff and then when you then you got somebody else that stand right beside you say like hey watch your mou like when you just watching Scarface like come on weren’t you reenacting that whole scene like what is happening but this is a good topic so
Hey a lighter a lighter in this I’m just this being funny and hilarious she done got serious over a period of time listen because sometimes we need to talk about some of the things you yeah you got that right oh goodness all right we’re gonna go ahead and go to a commercial break
Guys and when we come back we are going to be in this corner with Dr LA and Pastor Ricky Wilson we’ll be right back I was immediately impacted through my interactions with scores of men waiting in the county jail for their day of Court they were human beings not animals they were Sons husbands grandsons uncles cousins nephews grandfathers and grandsons they were men they were me my encounter that night was not with
Murderers or rapists or thieves or drug dealers my encounter was with people suffice it to say that during that visit to holmesburg the Lord let a fire in me that continues to burn till this day over 35 years later as promised we are back are you gentlemen ready christian celebrities
Are hurting the church or are they offering alternatives to the world in this corner in this [Applause] corner what’s up my friend all right my brother how you doing today I’m all right I’m all right good service went well on Sunday service went well I can’t can’t complain you know go ahead go
Ahead man we bless God and thank God for your ministry we’re keeping you in our prayers well thank you sir and Hallelujah to you we we what we working with bro where you at on this all right well I’m not against celebrities getting Sav that’s
Not what I’m a uh my aim my aim is I think what we have done in our Christian and in our churches is that we have elevated celebrities in every component without them actually having to go through discipleship program uh without them having to go through some kind of a mentorship program an
Accountability kind of program well I say cogram Ministry but I think when we Elevate them they get Sav On Monday now they preaching on Sunday I think we we kind of do them an injustice because we’re treating them as if they’re Pradas um you know James tells us hey
Don’t have this preferential treatment of of people in the Kingdom because God doesn’t have it so I think we need to be careful of that cuz when they cross the line who’s holding them accountable of their moral behavior and things of that nature okay um so so when you see this
You’re thinking of celebrities who become Christians and how they’re treated is that what is that is that what I’m looking at both celebrities when they become Believers then instead of walking through convert class and learning the scriptures they’re elevated okay preaching they elevated to Leading the choir they elevated where the
Average Joe you don’t treat like that but you do that with the celebrities and I think that’s that’s a wrong thing for us I guess when I when I saw this hit a topic I was thinking of um how we have mimicked the world and
How the church seems to we have to do everything that the world does so so the world has moved so we make Christian movies the world has uh singers and and it sounds R&B so our our singers have their own R&B flavor um you know and so everything
That the world does you know the world does hip-hop the church does hip-hop so we we seem to create this alternative Universe uh that says that we can have these celebrities and we celebrate these individuals who are doing things and they become platforms and so now our pastors have become uh
Personalities than pastors okay and so their their pull pits have become platforms uh and people begin to follow their brand versus follow their God you know so when I start looking at this this celebrity culture you know I agree with that that level of uh the lack of accountability but when you start
Getting Christians charging $100,000 and I need a private jet to come and speak and and all of these other things I’m like wow what what has happened to what we do we do for the Lord you know not for the honorarium not you when you
Know and again is that you know I think you know CU so I’m in that world where I do conferences and I bring folks in and and it’s like wow why would you pay this secular person you know 50,000 to come speak but you wouldn’t pay a Christian
Person 50,000 to speak you know and so that’s a real issue right and my thing is are do we really want to take 50,000 of Believers money and give it to you to come do a a 20 minute talk you know because the world is Will to do that
With IBM and do a TED talk like or is that what we really want right so so is that what show us value and so I see this this level of celebrity and I see this lack of accountability of our celebrities where you don’t have to have
What you just talked about you don’t have to have a foundation that’s solid right you can have a a jacked up character but if you got good Charisma you can still step on my stage you know so I got an issue with that aspect of celebrity culture coming into
Christianity and and I I hear you and I think on one hand I think some would consider us or call people haters when you don’t give the celebrity the platform and it’s almost like you’re you’re in between you know a rock and a hard place abely as as a pastor we’re
Representing heaven and we we got to speak um the Oracles of the word of God to people so that people understand it’s not about us it’s all about him like you said we want to make sure you hear more of what he said above what we say so my
Concern is that we’re doing that celebrity a disservice by elevating them to a place God himself hasn’t elevated them so I think we need to let everybody know hey we’re brothers we’re sisters we’re all equal and if we’re all equal the same God who word says seek first
The kingdom of God that goes for every beli go ahead go ahead so if if that if that’s so true then that means we got to seek first every believer got to prioritize God and everything you have is as a result so you are a beneficiary
Of the grace of God Amen anybody to much is given much is is expected so therefore if you have been loved much and you have been forgiven much then you should be showing more of that not necessarily that I need to have a platform up on the stage I can do that
In the humblest way for example one one preacher uh friend of mine uh shared with us um how he and I guess it goes back to what you said letting everybody know how he’s hob knobbing hob knob so he threw out he dropped a name and he
Said um you know there was a well off millionaire billionaires and they came to his church and they were sitting out and they they said what can we do for you oh I don’t want you to do anything for me I give you a brush and you can go start painting the
Walls and that was to tell us that we’re telling the person I didn’t want your money just want you to paint but that’s what you told us and it sounded good but your building got built with cash and you have a mortgage so something must have happened in the back room but the
Idea is that he was trying to tell us that the that this wealthy millionaires billionaires whatever um just wanted to help by painting doing some work in the communities to to come across that and that’s cool but then on the back end you know was it you know the dis service
Would be taking advantage of their wealth I he I mean I believe we just the church just has a culture I mean if there a guy who has 50 um then and it’s a guy who has 500 the guy who has 500 uh members uh
Regardless of one preach or or or or one plan or one water and God gives the increase uh the real the reality is we believe that the guy who got 500 is better than the guy who got 50 so the guy who got 500 get the platform but if
You got the guy that got 500 versus the guy who got 5,000 then the guy who got 5,000 gets the right and so what we think is that the more of of a following the more of an audience the more of a celebrity the more of a star the greater of a person
You are right and all I’m saying is that’s not accurate right that’s not that’s not accurate but because that is the the mindset right that’s what make guys who has have 50 people have 100 people have 200 people they they feel depressed they never feel adequate they
Never feel affirm they’re working in a culture where bigger is always better and and more is affirming you don’t have more you’re trying to figure out what’s wrong with you or what do I have to do in order to duplicate what somebody else is doing right so you know because we’re
We’re being validated by the people that’s following us that’s celebrating us that’s highlighting us when in reality we supposed to be highlighted and celebrated you know our God not ourselves as long as we doing what he called us to do then you know only person we need to
Worry about is one you see what my shirt say I know y probably been trying to figure out so low right only person I’m trying to be better than is myself you know the only person I’m trying to be better than thear is myself yesterday I don’t need to compete with nobody else
Right but me and getting better for him right and and I think that is you know I appreciate that because um uh what you said the solo uh for me but my wife and I when we moved uh in 1988 and we were in Dallas and there were three churches
That we were visiting uh we were visiting Concord Missionary Baptist Church we were visiting oakcliff Bible Fellowship and then we were visiting friendship West and then we peek in on other ones but we observe so many um well educated prosperous people in those three churches and Pastor um biley used to say
Hey they got the money they got the fame but what they lack is knowledge of their Savior and to actually have them in your Bible class where their stardom had no place they had to sit there and they were listening man having them in your Bible class teaching them the word is is
It’s it’s it was great and and they have come across saying hey don’t treat me any differently I’m a human I don’t know I’m I’m here to learn and those kind of celebrities you tip your hat off to but I think we do them diservice by putting them up in the front all
Right we didn’t want to cut that story off okay thank did you guys battle or were you guys agree with each other Today and I said okay we we don’t have the same view on this yeah yeah oh well we’re seeing you know everyone in the comments some of them are saying you guys are actually agreeing with each other and I was saying the same thing
But but PK do you you want to weigh in on this topic no okay I just figured I’d ask I mean you know it’s I unfortunately I Gotta Wear the ref shirt oh Lord him in this rough shirt I uh I I generally I remember coming up and
Whenever a celebrity became a Christian it was like they were platformed like it was nausey it was just they were everywhere I am delivered now you know I I look and I’m I’m I’m always LC because I’m like like is this just a flex something for uh you know advertising or
For notoriety and I’m always suspicious when someone is a celebrity they comes to know the Lord come to know the Lord and their platform so quickly because I wonder why like why like let them let them go through the process yesterday a man came up to me following servers to
Tell me he’s been out of church for years somebody told him to read the pastor’s Diaries He got a chance to hear situations that he dealt with but never understood from the pastor’s perspective it changed his heart it softened his heart and it brought him back to church
In the pastor’s diary you hear about the pressure and the pain the power and the pride the pedestal and the perseverance that pastors deal with and go through their passion of why they do what they do um it’s easy as a pastor to have this Elijah complex like you’re the only one
Going through things and it’s easy when you’re in the pool pit to look at the pastor and have such a judgmental perspective on them because they’re on such a pedestal the pastor’s diary is meant to bring all of that together in one place where myself along with 26
Other pastors give an intimate look behind a pull pit the pastor’s Diaries it’s here for you it’s here for the body it’s here to bring some healing and some reconciliation get your copy today so so your topic for today is how do we reclaim our sons and daughters um from
The Islamic culture men of Isachar okay so um I think you know like you know we we had a conversation um I don’t know if it’s last week we but we talked about responding to Crime uh and and I felt like you know you know like when I talked about the police commissioner we don’t we don’t respond
To it we try to prevent it so this idea of reclaiming them you know I think the first thing is is is losing them you you know before talk about so I think you know this idea many of um if if we we you look at what’s luring what lures
Them um to uh the Islamic faith I know many of of of our young ladies are led to it because of their boyfriends right absolutely but I think the the real thing it comes down to the idea that that Christianity uh is The White Man’s religion you know that’s huge that’s
That’s a huge selling point right uh the it makes all other Cults and all other ideas seem cool or seem like a a rebellion uh because it’s it’s opposite from going to the norm so so there is um this idea that we’re selling out by even
Being a part of this and that makes the lure uh which can be kind of fattish to the Islamic culture yeah and and that’s um I I I absolutely agree with you on that um around this whole subject one of the the talks that I remember from a prominent
Scholar Dr Carl Ellis was uh he he looked at the the three the three things that attracts a lot of young African-American ma males to to Islam in particular Nation of Islam this it’s the personal uh the cultural and the social it’s like those three areas they see as
Being addressed in uh the Islamic rituals and in the whole practice of Islam and it’s like um he he also went on and talk about and we observe we know that this I mean this is not new uh that these are those three areas are areas where in particular the church has we
Kind of shrink back from and and and we don’t actually uh talk about the the fullness of who we are and what the Bible and what God offers and talks about God talks about Justice God talks about ethics how we ought to live and God talks about the personal but often
Times we only focus on the personal and we miss these opportunities in particular with our young men uh who many you mentioned like that are incarcerated which is where a lot of uh our young men get connected to to Islam particular the Nation of Islam absolutely and and that right there that
That is a you know a great evangelism feel you know when you talk about the incarceration you got many who are introduced to it as a way of protection as a way of connection right and it further promotes the bad boy kind of image the underworld image and it attracts these individuals within
Our community you know but I also think you know we we could talk about fornication to young people right uh and and and you know but you go to here and you can have as many wives as you can actually afford right and so you know we
Still got piics of of not we but the church in general have piics of this Anglo American Jes right with brown hair and and blue eyes up on their walls when we all know full well that’s not what he look like right but we we we will still have it on our
Walls we’ll still have it in our Sunday school materials we’ll still have it in our Bibles right and and that’s a real turnoff for somebody who’s who’s trying to find uh their identity and they say I’ve been made in the image of and then when you show me that image right you
Like no I haven’t been made in the image image of him if if that’s what we’re talking about so I think many times we don’t we don’t we’re not able to relate on that personal level uh and they don’t see it as as I mean not we individually
As a church but we as a whole they don’t see as a place that’s welcoming of them exactly you know and I think another part of that is that we have um Islam have have men’s you know they have they have many men right who are actually disciplined and committed
To their faith and our churches are filled up with women yeah and that’s uh it’s irrefutable and uh I think sometimes we we we undervalue we under uh we we misunderstand the the value of having men a strong men uh in our churches in particular our African-American churches and and these
Strong men serving not just showing up the serving being on the front lines and presenting that strong presence um and that’s attractive to uh young African-American men who some have grown up without fathers and without that presence and and there’s like yo where else do you go where you get a complete
Picture of fatherhood and and what it means to be a man then of the Bible like the Bible speaks to it but we’ve almost relinquished that and uh we we have um we don’t challenge men we don’t we don’t encourage them like like these are all
Things that that I believe if we stepped into these roles and we do at an early age we’ll see some change and so you talk about reclaiming our our our daughters and our sons uh I think man there there’s so many opportunities um there’s we got we got to stop losing
Them talk about reclaiming we gotta start I mean I think when we fail to recognize I I think this the issue we fail to recognize that if we don’t disciple boy we will never have mature men absolutely right like there’s there’s a correlation to that like if you’re not if you don’t
See the boys and you don’t love one the boys you don’t father the boys you don’t become a father to the fatherless you don’t raise these boys up right you ignore these boys and then you wonder why these boys took off the moment they were able to make a decision of where
They were going to go right is a reason they don’t come back you know after they go to college if they go to college is a reason that we lose our boys in the high school years you know what I mean because we have not discipled them enough you got
To tell them more than a nice story about Daniel and the Lions then right we got to get up into their world that the problem is by the time we get to the point of Jesus is not the way I mean a way but he’s the way the truth and the
Life by the time we get there we done already lost them right yeah yeah already lost them and they need to hear like you mentioned getting to Jesus and uh and that forgiveness that where where Islam it doesn’t talk about that forgiveness and Assurance of of forgiveness and and and
Life after death that there’s this assurance that that we will be in the presence that um you know I think we we have something as Believers that we’re almost reluctant to share about like we talk about the Father’s Love and and there’s there’s a part that we can
Communicate with those who are on the border of whether or not they’re going to follow Islam or or or Christ or whatever man share about the father Father’s love you talk about how do you minister to young boys who are struggling with with being a man in
Society and a black man in society talk about the Father’s Love talk about Grace Grace beats ritual every time talk about the Gospel of Jesus Christ and forgiveness and love to a young man or someone who has done things that they believe they can never be forgiven for
And and I guarantee you that that that our faith that the gospel addresses those things and builds builds that man or that that woman up uh talks about being truly righteous not just righteous externally in ritual and doing these practices but righteous internally like like our faith the the the gospel
Addresses all these things that our young men and our young women are struggling with I believe that we’re like you said you mentioned discipleship we’re failing at discipling uh our young people and giving them like yo entrust them with that gospel that word of Truth yeah and
See God work you know I I wonder what can we learn from a a Jewish Bar Mitzvah like what can we learn from our rights of Passage like like what can we learn like it’s interesting you know as you was talking I was thinking you know that
That we we see Jesus in in the temple with with the older men dropping word on them and his parents like where where where were you like didn’t you know I had to be in my father’s house you know like we see that but then you got these
Silent years until my man hit 30 and I wonder uh if we have lost like how to actually deciple them from 12 to 30 if we’ve lost that right and and the reality is is they need to have we need to kind of rethink what is a rights of
Passage uh for individual we know they getting killed at a younger age we know they killing at a younger age you know what I mean is there something that we should be doing saying teaching expecting when our kids go from 12 to 13 in a Christian faith like is there some
Kind of way we need to go back to the drawing board and say look here this is happening all over right you know what can we do what can we uh introduce what kind of process can we have to help them grow what are our expectations when they
Hit this point this point this point because if you know they they getting expectations in every aspect of life how to walk how to live how how to how to do things in school they get in everywhere else well what are what do we expect from them in church Beyond showing up
Yeah and and you say that that uh as you talking just thinking about I mean what you’re talking about is we we must uh pour into and celebrate our young people uh we we’ve got to remind them that they are uh fearfully and wonderfully made they are special especially our young
Boys they go They’re going to get criticism throughout their life and um and that that leaves them open that leaves them open uh to being pretied by by by n the nation or or Islam or even I mean there are other entities out there Absol absolutely and black HEB like
They’re all going after they’re and they’re they’re dipping into that same pool of young black men who feel disenfranchised forgotten ignored and endangered and those young black men they want Community they want to be a part of something and and man what better body to be a part of than the
Body of Christ and what’s offered here and we got got to stop being scared of these young men and believing that they’re parias of society they are not and they’re fearfully Wonder from and we need to invite them into the fullness of life in Jesus like yo let’s not be
Scared of that absolutely and we got to show our young girls that they’re valued and much smoke much more to them than their than their bodies and their dress and their eyelashes and and everything else that that man looks at show them that they are also fearfully and wonderfully made
From the Inside Out you in order to claim them we got to first I think we agree we got to love them we got to honor them we got to educate them and edify them and raise them up in the culture that they can be uh celebrated
And that’s and that’s not a reach like that’s that’s that’s a part of who we are that’s a part of uh what what Jesus thought that’s you you look it throughout the Bible it’s repete with exactly what you said that we ought to be doing with our young people we don’t
Have to go far we just have have to get our priorities in order and be bold and stop we got to become that Village that had raise him we got to become the village because the neighborhood that used to be the village is no longer no
Longer the village that it once was we have to be that Village uh for our young people woo we have to be that Village for our young people well you guys rustle some heavy topics uh you want to way in here um yeah you you Al I understand
Um uh the prevention piece uh saving them from it but what do you you all touched about they got men in the Nation of Islam um and you guys can weigh on the image that I’ve heard some of the men in that I’ve talked to as a part of
The nation said that the men in Christian Christianity is soft and he was talking about the africanamerican men in particular yourself yeah we do have have men who who are not the priests of their homes right you know they they they may come or be dragged in on a Sunday uh but
Won’t show up any other time our church are heavy populated I would say s to three on a large scale of women versus men and so when you get this pastor say something to him they looking at him like yo who is the boy talking to me and
They ain’t trying to you know see me like that so ultimately they just leave you know what I mean they ultimately you know just walk out because of it when in reality I ain’t trying to really Punk nobody I’m just trying to challenge you to be the man that God called you and
Created you to be I’m not trying to belittle you I ain’t trying to rumble you I just want to challenge you to just stand up be a mighty man of God you know and we got many men who just won’t take that platform right and I would add to
That I mean um what what P mentioned about uh this white Jesus and and we’ve been beat up as Christians around this whole uh white jesus that shows up and in many of our homes and some of our churches uh this’s this picture and and reality is this the Christian faith it
Grew I’m say it grew in Africa it did not grow in Europe um you talk about the early church uh first second third I mean many of our greatest theologians uh were in Africa and um they were they were African theologians athanasius and and and Augustine like
The like that that whole idea um of of a white Jesus has we we’ve been beaten with that for many years and there’s tons of resources out there that dispel that um that that our faith early on uh it was birthed in the Middle East in in
In uh in Jerusalem but man it spread before it spread to Europe it spread uh into Africa uh to to folks who look a lot like you and I and I think that that needs to be expressed and stated uh because that that is that that whole that Christianity is a white man’s
Religion is just not the truth wow goodness gracious we could go on and on about that what a what a awesome dialogue and we’re gonna go right into our my next favorite segment guys right here with the four of us we’re going to welcome um our next segment and we’ll
See you on the spot what’s up Dr La you here it is so you know what this is right now right yeah yeah it’s my favorite segment why do you always give me like the cold shoulder when I say is my faor is it really the cold shoulder
Or really I know what you’re going to say I mean but go with me on that though I we’re in our second season you know I’m finishing your sentences I know what you’re going to say I think I think that just you know contributes to the
Chemistry that we have you know I don’t think it’s really yeah so don’t read it as Cole read it as chemistry Chandra bner gray humbly presents her professional Journey enriched by a strong academic foundation with degrees from Rucker’s University and Rucker School of Law she diligently serves as the owner and managing
Attorney of betner Gray law office where her Focus lies in practice areas such as real estate landlord tenant matters I needed her like years ago Estate Planning and probate she is like the bomb.com by the way she is currently at mizio Seminary getting her doctor of ministry listen she loves her uh husband
As well she has a in there but I’m GNA let her talk about that when she gets on so everybody put your hands together for none other than attorney at law AKA Esquire Chandra betner [Applause] gray how are you oh my gosh uh what kind
Of intro was that that was so dope oh was that dope okay we we Tred here we tried here on an’s Avenue because you’re a big deal how you doing I am doing so good I’m so excited to be here with you guys it’s good to have you on here you
Know I um uh obviously U knowing you for quite some time know your daddy know your brother know your family you know yeah absolutely and um I wanted you on here because I I know you know I I just heard all the of the academic and IL
Legal and professional but uh the the personal Journey the humanistic side of you uh I’ve always uh seen you just leading worship and you got such a spirit of worship such a level of Joy uh tell tell me who the human person is that that overachieved in life with all
These things and still doing so much more like what what gave you this this drive that to be all that you are at this time whoa what a question um I you know it’s so funny you said overachieving and I feel like the beginning of my life was such like
Underachieving I was I felt like such a disappointment in so many ways and um where wherever it is that God has me now is all a reflection of him so you know I um I am as you mentioned I’m a pastor’s daughter I’m a pastor’s sister um I I’ve
Recently I guess in the last like six years said yes to the Lord for the Callum my own life um but I but I started in a way that wasn’t ideal you know my father was a pastor uh one of the administrative ministers I guess or pastors at another church before he took
Uh leadership at our current church and um I lost my mother at an early age at the age of 16 and I think it sent me on an emotional behavioral spiral um that I was you know pregnant at you know my my uh freshman year in college and then I
Tried to redeem myself and get married um but I wasn’t ready for that I don’t think and but I became a mother of four children and um I just thank God that he didn’t give up on me I’ll say that um and um I had I had folks in my corner as
Well who spoke life into me even though I didn’t feel like the path my life was taking was one that was going to be redeemable in anyway um but I pressed forward and um went to law school anyway you know finished College went to law school with my children in toe and um
God made a way where there seemed to be none so I just give God the glory and I had a second chance at marriage and um I I just am grateful that’s what I can say oh she about to make me run around here I’m sorry that’s why that’s why I wanted
All what a testimony oh um I’m you know how that did the pastes Diaries uh I’m working on the pastor wives Diaries but following that is the pastor’s kids Diaries and know you know I want you up in that right I’m I’m letting you know right now uh because you got such a
Journey and such a story um and yet you know again like when I when I first experienced you it was leading worship tell me how you stayed in love with the Lord and his church I have to say that I I had so much Brokenness throughout my
Life starting with you know my mom’s passing and it the lord always met me in the broken places in my life and I think that that is what developed the the heart of a worshipper you know I I knew what it was like to be abandoned by the
People and I know you trying to make me cry on this podcast you trying we all about to cry I’m sorry I felt I have felt um you know the aband what felt like abandonment even in the church so I know what church HT is I
Recognize that I know what it is to live in a you know Fishbowl so to speak um and to to to kind of process what the looks and the things that happen and I could that’s there’s a whole like you said I hope you do ask me about the um
Pastor’s kids diar right much there um but the lord always met me in these places of like I’m not going back um and and would would bring me near to him and I didn’t I’ve never felt so embraced and loved as I felt in the moments where I
Where he was reminding me that he was counting my tears and that that I was still useful to him and to be completely honest the the only place and I’m like feeling kind of like chills as I’m saying this the only place I felt useful um was in that place of worship where
Even even when you know I was put in a in a visible place place to lead songs and Lead worship it still felt like I was in my closet um and I felt like even if even if people don’t receive it I know that God knows my heart and I know
That that part of my heart not all of it is worthwhile but that place in my heart that broken worshipful place he loves and that’s how you know I’ve stayed there that’s dope dope thank you for sharing thank you for sharing a as we move on as as a lawyer you know lawyers
Lawyers aren’t known for their integrity not you know for their ethics and and yet you you you’re in this field help me understand how you navigate these ethical dilemmas that you may face when you’re representing uh clients like how does that work how do you navigate your
Faith and and your practice that’s such an excellent question and to be completely asked when I started I struggled I struggled with the fact that I know what the thought is of attorneys what the reputation is and and and I also have colleagues that embody all of
That um and I struggle to find my place and I know that that was part of why the Lord closed doors that I tried to go through in the field to put me where I had to create my own place um and I had to create a firm that had a different
Identity and and H you know we have an atmosphere here that doesn’t um mimic or mirror other firms that you may go to um so I’m always mindful of who I am in my um in my interaction with my clients and what I’m trying to help them through and
How I advise them even those who I know they don’t want to hear me necessarily being a preacher but I can’t cancel who I am so I still show up in that way they they don’t they may not be able to discern what it is but but that is how
I’m I’m leading and that’s how I’m making even my legal arguments and whether or not I take certain matters and I have the autonomy because I’m in my own firm to be able to say that that’s not looking like you know something that I really can step fully
Into and advocate for you know we have the ultimate example of an advocate so it’s so sad how sin has perverted um the law because the law comes straight from the lawgiver right law he is Jesus is the ultimate Advocate and so when get to
Step in these places and I take on the cares and the concerns of my clients he’s always reminding me Spirit of the Lord is always saying you have an advocate and in the way that you can be like me be that here um but there are things that I won’t attend there are
Certainly there are words and conversations that I don’t take a part of and even you know I do represent some clients that I feel have some ethical concerns and I when I’m willing to take those clients in those cases I do so um with also the forwardness to tell them
Like you know I don’t we we shouldn’t proceed in that way we should proceed in a way that has some Integrity with how you we are engaging with the other side so you know there are some still challenges because I have to learn to separate sometimes um the emotional
Aspect which people who know that I’m a Believer if they’re on the other side I’ve had I’ve been confronted wanted you know before well how can you be a part of an eviction you know when when you are a Believer you know but there’s another side to that and I’ve been on
Both sides but the other side is you have some responsibility to do your part you know you have consistently not done your part you have not communicated you have not responded to communication so there is a consequence and that is also that’s it that’s it I know that was
A long answer but that’s really that’s really it I have a question I want to talk a little bit about your family life because you did share um that with us and I’m a woman you’re a woman and we’re go-getters both owning our own businesses how uh does that play off in
Your family because you do have children and we do have husbands that we have to care for how does that work how do you balance all of that you know the Lord kind of delayed me because when I got out of law school I was ready to go
Right into a firm or whatever door was going to open I was trying to do all the things that all of my colleague you know colleagues at the time were trying to do get into the big law firms all of that um and I didn’t pass the bar exam and
You know what felt like are you kidding me God you have closed you’re closing the door after you’ve opened so many doors you made ways where it was impossible I got into the law school of my choice I got scholarship after scholarship after scholarship and I felt
Like I understood what I was learning right you know um so why is this door closed and and it didn’t only happen once I think I didn’t pass like three times but when I look back now I recognized that the Lord was delaying me with purpose and one of those purposes
Was my children grew up um and then the other purpose was that when the door finally opened I could say yes God I will open the practice because I felt like it was was deep in my heart but I was like I had fear I felt like well I’m
Not going to be able to pay my bills or I’m not going to be able to do all of the things that I you know need to do when the door finally opened the kids were old enough were kind of like high school age kids I didn’t have to worry
About daycare I didn’t have to worry about you know them being latchkey kids or any of that that wasn’t a concern of mine and then concerning my husband he works for a law firm um so he yeah he know he he knows the light he was very
Invested in us getting this practice up and running um and so we have been Partners in in a large way and then the last way is um the autonomy of the time the schedule I make my own schedule now certainly I show up I’m the hardest worker I’m here in the
Office um I have to be at court when I have to be at court but I can say my office closes at four o’clock every day oh I love it we close half we have a half day on Friday that gives me an opportunity to be present um in my
Household with my children with at my church you know whatever is I’m called to do I’m able to balance oh love it I don’t know how you went back to family but that was great answers she did she got she went back no you went back you
Took her back Sor you did that you did that woman to woman wife to wife mother to Mother thing woman thing know sorry sorry anyway back back to the professional side yes you know yes it goes together it really really does and that’s what the Lord is showing me in
This season of my life and how things he doesn’t want my life compartmentalize which was my instinct as an attorney was like okay I’m gonna have this section and I’m gonna have that section and they you know they don’t cross but the Lord has made it possible for them to come
Together I’ve called you to all of this and and watch me work watch me show you how you can be present as Mom present as wife walk in your ministry calling and in this Law Firm it feels impossible but with God it’s possible I know it now you
Trying to sneak and preach too come on here here you go here you go but but speaking of Crossing NOA are Are there specific uh projects initiatives you’ve been involved in that that kind of pour out your ministry through your professional practice like how does that
Work um yeah so I’m frequently asked to uh speak to folks a lot a lot of times in churches or various um organizations so I’ve had some fraternities and sororities approach me to speak and to um Talk on Estate Planning in particular um this the area that um
Folks in the black and brown Community especially obviously you know people in general but especially in our community it’s just one of those areas that where we we neglect um so been asked a lot and I’m eager every time I’m asked to talk about this area um and I’m and I’m not
Doing it with a desire to quickly you know get something in return I want us to have the information I want us to understand because truly we perish for a lack of knowledge and so I’m that’s that is Ministry to me to be able to have learned not only by what I’m learning
Through the books but uh by the the relationships that I’m building in my client community and being able to see how a lack of planning has impacted their life and their finances absolutely so so that’s where I’m able to marry the things together love it do do you do you
Find all right I’m G let you go but do you find that because people know you’re a lawyer that um they constantly asking you for for advice are you constantly trying to getting these free consultations in church because people know who you are you know yeah how do you put a stop to
That yeah I learn I learned it’s great I’m thank you for asking that I learned early that I had to establish boundaries um concerning that because it’s that is a that’s a really tough space and so I’ve had to create boundaries that initially were probably really uncomfortable for the people in my
Family and um and my church Community but I’ve had to be really really strict about that and and when we first started the practice it was in the church um my my pastor father was like hey you don’t got to find a place I was already
Serving there because I was over the uh Community Development Corporation that the church established so I had an office and everything there so he was like you can start here and then build so we did that and I would say about a year in a year and a half into the
Practice and we were able to purchase a building and move elsewhere but because of that there was a closeness that folks um needed help recognizing that there was a boundary there so I did that by one of the first ways was hiring so you have to communicate to my office to get
On this you know on my schedule um another thing is I wanted to honor the fact that I do have relationships with some folks so I do consultations and I charge a fee for consultations but I reduce that fee for my family and friends so I I can say to them hey
Here’s a link for you since you’re my family and since you’re my friends it’s still takes them through a process that has a boundary there it recognizes and honors them as my family or my friends who says these folks might pay this amount but I’m I’m bringing that down
For you because you’re my folks but I do think the formality of that helps with Absolut boundary and so people don’t really occasionally someone will try to pull me to the side and I now have a process to kind of like take them through okay they understand dope that
For my accounting folks cuz they ask me accounting questions all the time they’re like hey I have a question I’m like oh that’s a fee so yeah I’m like I haven’t had my firm for 20 something years for nothing oh my goodness this has been amazing do I get
Can I let me get one final let me give one okay get one final go ahead go ahead goad CA she so amazing I know when folks come to you um as a lawy uh there’s normally some hurt some pain some offense uh that they’re doing like do
You do you have you had opportunity at that point to ever share your faith or lead somebody to Christ yeah in that in that place because I know they’re vulnerable at that at that place oh gosh that’s so hard um I don’t I try to to
Not do the going all the way to Leading someone to Christ but I will say I I say things in our consultations depending on what I’m hearing and what I’m feeling that can lead to a follow-up conversation more times than not what ends up happening is someone will tell me based
On our conversation that they are people of faith and it doesn’t it doesn’t happen initially but it’ll happen as they’re hearing my language as they’re hearing you know how I’m advising them um even concerning their emotions because I didn’t go to school necessarily to be a counselor yet you
Know judges refer to me as counselor or counsel other attorneys refer to me as that and I know why now because we do meet our clients in that place of need and I again I’m always present as the minister that I am um but I try to walk
A line of balance of not of of seeing when I should or how far I should cross the the line overtly because I’m always crossing the line they just crossing it I need to get her on faith stalking oh my goodness you’re amazing that’s her that’s her that’s her other podcast she
Plug in her podcast while she’s while she’s doing listen I love her okay I have I have a round robin that we do for every one of our guests it’s really quick um it’s real quick so what’s your favorite color hot pink hot pink okay because I
See the hot pink you see it behind you yeah why hot pink though I just I’m curious just makes me happy and I know I can’t have it up front in the front part of the office so I got it back here so you got it back there okay what is your
Favorite now you’re a worshipper so what type of music do you worship to is it contemporary gospel is it old school is it the hymns what’s your favorite all of the things but but I will say right now I’m really enjoying um kind of more CCM
Less words just time to reflect and and you know I like that um that I would say that’s my favorite right now but I know it’s always changing and people that are writing songs these songs these new songs that are coming out whoa they are just awesome because they because
They’re like they’re telling you their whole life okay last question where is your now you have to have time for downtime so what’s your favorite place to travel to or just to have a quick getaway um long with Gardens that’s not far that’s like I just like walking through the gardens it
Just it’s awesome yeah that’s my favorite oh my goodness well listen it has been a pleasure talking to you absolutely oh my God like thank you for having right now um we’re gonna remove ourselves and we’re going to put you on the spot once more we want to go ahead
Um and allow you to take maybe one minute just to encourage um our you’ve been encouraging us this entire time but what is a nugget or a just a piece ofc enement that you would like to leave to Our Guest so I’m going to remove myself
And Dr LA and then the stage is all yours hey family my word of encouragement to you is that wherever God has you he has a purpose you are not an accident and your circumstances have purpose and he is moving you to where he
Wants you to be so be open give your yes and when you give your yes don’t take it back he’s a faithful God next week on Athens Avenue look our pastor and his wife gave stay together what makes you think we can stay together and I think
We’re we’re we could be marketing the wrong thing um that you know if you want to get out just go ahead and get out just go ahead and get out oh my goodness what a show yeah Dr La I mean this has just been really impactful um you can
Tell by the comments that we have we have some new folks joining us too so welcome to the ad and this has just been a phenomenal uh season thus far I’mma bring the fellas back like we always do but Dr La I’m going to give you the last
Word just wanted to say it was a good show just thank all my co-host for making it making it happen thank you all for joining us uh we continue to wrestle with these things there there is no scripts uh you know we we Comm in we
Allow the Holy Spirit to move on us on these topics uh again we appreciate the ones you suggested we try to get them in as as we fit them in uh and we going to continue to do this as long as you continue to like and share and sub
Subscribe we going to continue to do this and we going to talk about it and keep these things relevant before you so thank you for joining us on the app and we see y’all next week where at D on the ab at see you guys
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