I think that people got to realize that the birth of Irish democracy took place in Belfast it was the Presbyterians and they’re thinking to change to it’s been the biggest Rebellion ever over 25,000 people were killed that’s probably the biggest casual list in any battle that
We know of a lot of these people are suspiciously being killed the kill the revolution you need to kill to so if wolf Tong landed in Ireland and the French beat the Eng Eng would we be speaking French to hi everyone it’s Stevie from Ireland before you die and today we’re in
Belfast and we’re here to meet sha Neer Shawn is a historian and a 1798 tour guide for anyone that doesn’t know 1798 was a really important period in Ireland’s history it was the period of the United Irishmen who were men who came together with the goal to unite all
Irish men under the one Banner Catholic Protestant and the center this movement inspired further movements such as the 1916 rising and the Irish war of independence which ultimately led to the creation of Independence for most of the island of Ireland so we’re here to meet
Sean have a pain with him and to learn what this period was all about let’s Go Hi Sean thanks for meeting us you first don’t you y good man thank you lovely lovely I must say day amazing gar bar absolutely good bar indeed bit of History bit of pedigree this bar yeah so Sean you you are a historian and tour guide for 1798
Well the period of 1798 on the United Irishman can you just tell us what was the 179 rebellion and who were the United Irishmen well suppose in Belfast in the 1790s uh sort of it really all goes off really from the enlightenment era and the enlightenment era is very very
Important where you had different ideas coming out of Europe you had the American Revolution happen in 177 5 and after 1775 you have these ideas from Thomas P the Rights of Man all these writings of these great enlightened writers and it starts to be read by the locals over
Here particularly the the merchant class the Presbyterians the Des centers who were quite radical in their thinking and Presbyterians by their nature are quite radical here at that particular time so of course in 1780s 1790s there was the rise of a group of people in Belfast the denters mainly denters and they decited
To find the cesari of United Irishman based on the principles a of Enlightenment and the principles generally of the French Revolution which of course is equality Liberty and fraternity and they aspis those ideas they aspired the great thinking behind it and they wanted to see that happen in
Ireland they wanted to free Ireland and unite The People Under the common name basically of Catholic Protestant and the center mhm so the united arysman in Belfast at that time like who who are the main leaders of the Revolution at that particular time uh we have wolf
Tony comes up from Dublin and you have Thomas Russell who comes up from Dublin and they’re both sort of a package that come up here but in Belfast itself before the the likes of tone and Russell came up and many others it was mainly the likes of Samuel neelson and we also
Have Henry Joy McCracken you have Sinclair you have Mater you have uh the likes of uh William drenan who is a doctor in Dublin but he is actually from Belfast he’s the son of the mans of the the first church in in Rosemary and his father was the minister but he was
Writing an influence in Belfast from Dublin so a culmination of all these individual people from as I said drenan and right through to neelson Nelson’s a very big character here in Belfast we always hear about neelson and mcracken and they amalgamate and become the leaders of the Republic
Minded people of Belfast and they’re all Presbyterians to the man so like basically they’re from a Protestant background yes they like Republicans would that be quite mad for someone to hear that in today’s context people don’t realize those days there were three classes of Citizen and they were
Basically the first class of citizen in Ireland was the Protestants the anglicans the second class of Citizen were uh your denters they were the denters were the Presbyterians or quick or anybody wasn’t basically Anglican in that you know that side and of course you had Catholics who were the third
Class citizens and of course you probably even say you had a fourth class of Citizen which were women and they were treated not very well back in those days so you you have a quite a lot of stratisfied system in Ireland of the 1780s and ’90s so these guys I think
They were highly educated the United Irish men what inspired them to do the revolution well most of these United Irishmen were fairly well educated a lot of them were businessmen they were prob wealthy uh Samuel why would someone who’s wealthy want to change their society yeah I because they believed in
Rights they believed in equality and you know they had I mean they they could have done quite well they could have know and become very successful they were very successful they come from very successful Mercantile families in particular uh all of them were making money but they felt uh the the ideas of
Enlightenment had you know get into their bones and the ideas of equality and the ideas of of the French Revolution had really changed them because what they wanted to do they wanted to reach out to their neighbors their Catholic neighbors and show that they believed in equality and which is a
Great thing H which was happening at that time they wanted to help and emancipate Catholics they wanted them to have the same rights because you can’t be an abolitionist against slavery which was a big thing at that time yet just completely ignore your neighbor who at that time wasn’t able who was still
Suffering under very much the penal laws and not able to elect uh some of their religion to go into Parliament because at that time uh Catholics uh were not allowed into Trinity College and Catholics or Presbyterians for that matter weren’t allowed to go into Parliament either in Dublin which was
The main they called that the ascendancy parliament so in that ascendency Parliament it was only anglicans could go into it so Presbyterians couldn’t go in and Catholics certainly couldn’t get in and in Trinity College it was changed quite late in 1780s the Catholics got actually go into it so Catholics were
Generally not allowed into anything they weren’t allowed into serious areas of law they won’t all into teaching won’t let into government and any big government job so there a lot of gravance going on there and these United Irishman came along based out of alas may I say and they started the ball
Rolling to get people their rights so you could say that basically the Irish Republic you know it’s has its capital in Dublin yeah was sort of founded here yes that would be for someone not from here to grasp I think that people got to realize that the birth of Irish
Democracy took place in Belfast it was the idea of republicanism the idea that is we’re not we don’t believe in monarchy as in they were able the question monarchy of course this all goes back to Thomas pay and his writings about the Rights of Man and the rights
Of man was known as the the Quran of Belfast according to Wolf toone Wolf toone described Belfast of their enlightened thinking he called Belfast the Athens of the north because all thinking and ideology and radicalism was coming from Belfast it wasn’t coming from Dublin so Tom and Russell and many
Others were attracted to Belfast because of their enlightened politics and toone mentions himself it’s because of their religion the Presbyterian way they thought where the Presbyterian mind ticked that this was a place to be and tone wanted to be in the middle of all that and of course you could say yes the
Birth of Irish democracy does come from crime entry and crime Tavern in 1791 it All Began there pretty cool cheers up okay so you mentioned the wol tone um I think when a lot of people hear the the name wol Tone they think of the wol tones the Irish F group um Celtic
Symphony and all that but U who was W wol sou leader TI well wolf Ton’s the guy comes up with the idea of the Society of United Irishman uh so so much so that it it’s actually influenced by other people and his tone that crystallizes the idea the
Ideas he picked up from various people particularly William drenan the Belfast son of the mans son of a of a minister and it is really tone taking it to the next stage uh of drennan’s idea this sort of Brotherhood for Independence for self-determination and tone takes us to
The next stage and wolf told himself as a young barister he’d studied at Trinity College he’d went over to London and at that time he couldn’t really fit in to being you know at that time a a man of the a man at the bar as you could say he
Basically wasn’t cut out to be a lawyer and he says so himself and his daries and but he comes back to Belfast or should I say he comes back to Dublin and he starts to write for local journals and writes pamphlets and different things those days people wrote pamphlets
Not books and Tom was really good at it and he would be writing pamphlets and stories about the ascendency parliament which they called it in duin which was the Protestant Parliament and he’s very good critiques of what was going on maybe over the Stranges of things but
Tom got noticed for being a really good writer and he was picked up by a bunch of guys in the north uh a club A Wig club and they called him the northern wig club and the northern wig Club had asked him listen you want to write some
Stuff for us you’re pretty good and he starts writing for them he starts writing these fabulous pieces so comes the stage where by ton has actually invited the Belfast and he comes up to Belfast in 1791 and he accompanies his friend uh Thomas Russell If you probably know
Thomas Russell he’s the man from God knows where beloved of the people of Ding and he actually met Russell a year before in the strangers Gallery in the Irish Parliament where they’re both being really nosy find out what’s going on and Russell and him strike up a great relationship and they become
Friends very very close friends tone absolutely love Russell and they both loved each other but these were two of the greatest figures of course Russell himself was a cork man and Tom was a doublin man but most of all that Shan through was the Republican politics of Enlightenment uh from the Belfast
Presbyterians they were Tone’s guiding star believe it or not it was the Presbyterians and they’re thinking to change toone and so they were as much influential on tone as they were on them so what significance did the rebellion of 1798 have on Ireland and the future
Well in many ways it’s it was a terrible failure at the end of the day 1798 it fell apart and that’s due to many issues it was one of the biggest battles if not the biggest battle in battles that were held throughout Ireland and Rebellion broke out was a
Lot of well there was a lot of fighting going on around the island at the time there were uh different counties biggest Rebellion for it’s been the biggest Rebellion ever really uh the biggest Rebellion uh over 25,000 people uh were killed that’s probably the biggest c l
In any battle that we know of in 1798 it was actually preceded the active Union and it was because of that battle and and various battles held across from down from the Battle of Bal Hench from the Battle of Anum right down to Vinegar Hill and waxford and various battles
Throughout Ireland and that Ireland today was very much shipped by that because it made the British realize that irand needed to either go in the union and she needed to be held by force and qu a whole line of issues but also apart from being the fact that it was a
Failure it also was a great inspiration to Future Leaders because after them 1798 after that rising of uh republicanism for independence of self-determination you had the movement of this the young irelanders then from there you had the foundation of the uh the phans and the Irish Republican Brotherhood which would evolve into the
IRB from the IRB into the modern day Irish volunteers and into 1916 so the whole thing is linked and the old always link each other three right history each one’s rated to the other so the United Irish man met and Belfast and they planned Rebellion the Rebellion took place but what was the
Outcome of that obviously he said that it was a failure how did it end well the biggest problem with United Irishman was that uh because of the fact that the British were uh had the whole movement was riddled with informers and they s knew what was going to happen before you
Know many Irishman knew what was going to happen and at the time all their leaders uh in in the North and the South uh the day of the commencement of the uprising was the 23rd of May and it went off first in down in South in uh in the
Lster area of course in Wexford and different areas around there and it happened in the North in June and it didn’t all go off in one go because what had happened is the British had arrested most of the leaders uh in the South and had arrested most of the leaders in the
North so for example Sam neelson uh was in jail at the time Thomas Russell was in jail Henry J mcracken had just got out of jail so they were very very spers you know the whole movement itself had very little leadership and they were led by people relatively inexperienced
Perhaps Henry John mcracken was experienced enough but the Rebellion itself fell flat because so can I ask what type of warfare was this was this like modern warfare what the what was the weapons whatap the weapons would have been small cannon for a start and the pike of course the famous
Against the basically the you’re talking about yeah you know P to Pik yeah well the British army didn’t use Pikes they used you know rles and they used Cannon well the Irish already an up struggle oh yeah I mean the Pikes were very good you’re talking 8 to 10t pools which
Would have been able to grab a soldier and pull him off or you could Pike him but that was really nothing against grape shot from a from a cannon so you’re coming into antram town as they were or uh or in Bal the Hench you know
The British just had let go of their cannons and it would just cut down people uh with the grap shot and it’s very hard to to beat a cannon against a pike unfortunately uh that was probably put an end to quite a lot of that their armaments weren’t that good they had
Bravery and they had plenty of Pikes but that’s nothing to compared to a cannon fan grap shot at you so what happened all the leaders of the rising of 1798 so following 1798 you have even the before the rising there was so much arrest going on in
Droning and most of them were in jail or most of them had been either uh deported or they were already uh on their way to to leaving they’re already in jail and when the ones at work CAU the leaders were all basically executed uh so for
Example in Belfast the likes of the ones that didn’t es skipe so Henry J Kraken was caught and he’s the son of alas of course one of the most illustrious ones so he has caught after the battle of antrum and he’s made taking his way to Carrick to escape but he’s caught he’s
Brought into Belfast and there he’s had a court Marshal and he has tried and he is to be H he’s not he’s only given something like two to three hours from the sentence to be in h and and obviously it’s a very very sad event he’s hanged in High Street so all the
Other people in that day were hanged there was two or three other people generally the heads were cut off and removed from the body and they were stuck on a spike so for example the day that Henry Jo Kraken was hanged there were two people’s heads on a spike on
The same scaffold up in the air and of course uh was a guy called James Dicky and John’s story their heads were on a spike for at least three or four months until they had to take them down due to the bad smell and that would have been
The fate of Henry Jo McCracken so Henry was hanged but his head wasn’t taken off because the family were so well-liked and there was a deal done that Henry Joy’s body would be taken down it’d be buried at High Street there in the little church of St George’s and most of
The other leaders like wolf toone yeah wolf toone himself well he’s caught of course he’s in France he’s back he’s caught with a B well he was in France because he’ gathered an Army in 1796 that it came in Christmas of that year but they couldn’t
Land what army was this this was a French army French army with 15,000 crack Austrian Republican troops should I say aan we’re on the Austrian front line they were French trips so they had to go back to France but he kept coming back with another Army and he came back
With another Army he go over to the mland in convince them to fight with the AR y he went over to France in 17 uh January 1796 he goes over to France gets speaking to the French directorate and they gave him a huge Army uh an armada
Effectively to come to Ireland and they arrived at Christmas day but as they say the weather was so bad that toone commented it was like the second Protestant wind in that it was the greatest Escape since the Spanish for the English and tone seal back to Ireland with the very disappointed but
He would come g 2 and a half years later and this time it would be in T island off the coast of johal and this huge battle is a battle of T Island and is there that wolf tone is captured and he’s brought into bonr then into Derry
And he’s brought down to Dublin where upon he’s pied to trial for treason interesting so what is your you know let’s talk hypothetical let’s let’s be hypothetical here so if W tone landed in Ireland and the French beat the English y would we be speaking French to or would he be part
Of France it would be all like LA and and stuff together and all this very nice I don’t think so because the the Irishman weren’t you know Tom was very and Robert em was like this as well there were this is a period though that you know there’s all these wars in
Europe and all yeah me people didn’t realize that you know we we don’t mind you helping us with our Revolution but we’re not leans come in here to colonize I’m not going to replace the British with the French fren might have replaced the English and then there be another
1916 could against there’s a lot of people say that you know the French going to be here to stay and the idea is no we just want these to help us to with the revolution but as soon as we’re there thank you very much a bit like
America cuz in America the French helped the Americans win the war remember and they came into the war why went over there well toone went via America to get to France cuz France was Block it’s very hard also told him he was getting out of revolation he wasn’t involved actually
Landed in America he went he went he left Belfast in 1795 well he was he was in Belfast for a couple of weeks and that’s where he went up to Cave Hill up to mon carts Fort and declared a revolution effectively is where where where it transcends into the
Radical revolution and then it comes down he stays for a few more days and he heads up to he heads to Philadelphia from Belfast and he arrives in Philadelphia in Wilmington uh in July and in July he spends the next 6 months basically trying to make his way to
France via goes to New York he just settles his wife down and he makes his way to New York and there from New York he leaves on the 1st of January 1786 at the end of that month he’s in France and he arrives in France and as there he
Makes his way as we talked about earlier to the French director in Paris and there of course he rises he raises a huge Army to invade Ireland incredible guy I must say I mean even uh the J willing to himself praised him he says
It Tong was a man of Genius to do these things intive so how did Tong die did he get executed well the thing about tone is there’s a great debate on at the moment about Tone’s trial and how he was apparently committed to side there’s a
Lot of people work a lot of research the moment that to was actually murdered because if you look back at various people at that particular time a lot of these people are suspiciously being killed you a wood fall on them in prison or they would get beaten up in prison or
Their necks would be broke and Ton’s cases that he caught his own throat has been questioned and u a good friend of mine Patty civan is doing quite a lot of work on that and he was able to show that you know it’s impossible to say wolf tone committed suicide because no
Possibility it’s more likely wolf toone was murdered and he was murdered for one reason because they had to kill the revolution to kill the revolution you need to kill to so the 178 rebellion and what happens after that so after 1798 quite a lot of people are very very
Wounded and basically there’s defeat of the United irman and everyone’s got their head down and of course within a year or two out comes this active Union which if you understand the active Union and how it came about it’s probably one of the most corrupt corrupt most corrupt
Piece of legislation ever to Comm in it was basically bribed and of course Castle Ray’s job was to bribe everyone and particularly the ones in in the parliament in Dublin it’s very important to realize that the Catholic church was for the active Union and the Orange Order was against the active Union and
You remember asked yourself why would that be because the Orange Order knew that United Irishman were beat night and they could do what want if they had their own Parliament which was a Protestant Parliament Catholics Catholic Church back it was because they threw their lot in with English because they
Realized weren’t going to get any rights out of that Parliament dou that ascendency putant Parliament so after 17 1798 you have the active Union and of course things settle down for another couple of years but up again comes Robert emt’s rebellion and that’s an 1803 me Robert emit is a young man he’s
26 years old he’s a trinity man and he of course is famous for one thing only probably apart from the fact his H bravely and his Rebellion he writes his famous epito when he is hand and beheaded in Thomas Street outside St Catherine’s Church in 18 and his em
Rebellion is the first Rebellion inside the active Union and that set off the Next Generation and in that rebellion in 1803 it’s Thomas Russell he gets out of jail by this time cuz he’s been turned for six years Russell never gets a chance but he comes out and he’s
Involved in that Rebellion but he’s caught and he’s caught in Dublin and he’s deliberately bought by the British to D Patrick cuz he is he’s a COR drick because D Patrick was or something no it’s as much it’s because they like because he’s beloved of the locals that
He’s beloved of the people of the Defenders and unit Irishman of down p in South to they really really like he was their commander and uh the general say no I want him up here and I want him hanging down pfck and I was going yes
It’s to teach the people of d a lesson and of course it’s a very famous uh very famous poem The Man from God knows where and of course that’s Thomas Russell and he’s buried in a very uh beautiful little graveyard just there in down Patrick and it’s a gravestone and the
Gravestone says the grave of Russell 1803 and Miram mcracken she paid for that gravestone H in sort of later days in her life in the 1840s and 50s so for people today what’s the legacy of the United Irishmen and um what influence did they have in modern irand I think in
Many ways the legacy is uh about unity and it’s about the unification of the Catholics and the Protestant and the centers and to be able to rule themselves together and stop looking back to the past and look to the future look to the Future as an island people with their differences of their
Different religions but we’ve all got a sh a common you know we’ve all got a common denominator where we of this land and it’s very important to see that the United AR can try to say to people listen the English are here really for themselves they’re not really here for
You and that has been shown throughout history they’re here and and when they are here they will create the vision Among Us but this was the first thing that move told and youit AR recognizes no we we understand that you’re really not here for us and for the good of us you’re
Here to exploit us but if we get together and stick together we can make it a better place for everybody so they realized that these differences that we have even to this day they’re actually manufactured cuz if you look deeply we’re all roughly the same we’re all very same character maybe different by
Religion but that’s all the unit we able to see well into the future the vision a better place to live in tears up see I’m really enjoying this chat it’s really fascinating um you do tours walking tours uh all Rel the 1780 Dublin how can the audience find out about the
Tours and bit one so you can go into Eventbrite and type in 1798 Belfast walking tour or Dublin and we’ll definitely pop up the event right and you’ll probably find us anywhere in Google in reference to we pop up up in the news a lot we do a lot of different
Stories quite unique what we do and we’re also quite pioneering in it we like to see Belfast change and show more about this history and one of the main things that we also do is we also do we do private tours we can do talks we do
Lectures we spread out because the this whole story doesn’t belong to us or it doesn’t belong to me it actually belongs to everybody anybody can do it but there’s been a great interest uh from all sides on this and no matter what religious persuasion you are politics this seems to get everybody cuz
Everyone’s seems to love these United Irishmen because remember they were United they were of all religions and they were very much into their equality and looking after each other and I think that’s the essence of why they’ve survived it’s over 230 years since these United Irish men and women but can’t
Forget the women and it’s amazing that these people have such a strong uh a sort of strong pulse in society today it deves a sort of Romanticism revokes a sense of greatness and equality maybe a better time of perhaps a time that probably a time that didn’t come but
Maybe it has a time that will come sometime soon so it’s very much a conundrum for many people but it still is because the United Irishmen are unique and that’s why people are so interested in them that’s great Sean um SLA cheers thanks so much for the chat
And today I just want to say blessed Lu with the tours and you know I hope that this video will inspire um more people to learn about 1788 going one of your T so thank you very much thank you very Much
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