As well as pastor and missionary and uh definitely want to just promote this as something that definitely adds to your collection in your library something needs to change a call to make your life count in a world full of urgent need so tonight we are talking about decision making and how our decisions
Also impact our our present state our future state and it definitely affects our past so we want to talk about you know this is just a picture of you know someone in the in a greek organization that um we want to respect we want to honor but we also want to understand
The decision making behind joining any organization for that matter particularly greek letter organization so we’re going to just kind of first set the table and before we set the table let’s just address the audience right so we are looking to speak to these people specifically saved or unsaved christian or
Non-christian whether you’re agnostic or atheist whatever you believe if you have if you’re in one of these categories this this is tonight’s special um awareness to you uh so anyone thinking about joining a organization any organization for that matter it doesn’t have to be just a greek letter organization but if you’re
Possibly in college or you’re um out of college and you just want some kind of social um assistance in a way you know where can i go and be a part of something whether it’s meetup groups or whatever it may be um we’re we’re going to address
You know you tonight um we’re also addressing those that are all already active members of organizations um greek letter and the like um maybe their reasoning is uh you know social status tradition networking relationships a sense of family now there could be agreement with the founders of these organizations their
Statutes and so forth we’re also addressing the inactive members uh those who may not be financially equipped to pay the dues anymore or uh those who may just not feel wanted or there might be some broken relationships as well so just convict convictions as well so those are inactive and we’re also
Addressing those tonight that have denounced or renounced their membership in an organization especially in the greek letter organization we’re addressing them i mean many times you will renounce or denounce your position on something due to a loss of relationship uh you know something very critical um it could be a conviction
Of the origins or it just we can it could just be in your reasoning that you’re that you’re denouncing or renouncing uh an organization so that’s our wide range in the sense of uh community that we’re that we’re talking to tonight um and uh let’s go here so we’re gonna set the table
Um we’re gonna do it a little bit on orthodox tonight because before we go and dive into the topic um we want to unpack uh and establish our position uh through a thought devotion and this is a a reality check of how we’re going to under how we want to allow you
To understand our biblical position uh when dealing with people groups and that are inside or outside of the faith and we want to handle the truth of care and a humble attitude those are two main objectives with this devotion um what better way to uh share our thoughts um with uh with
What better way than to be with and under the authority of the scripture or the authority of god a greater authority than ourselves right um we will we recognize our limitations we recognize that we can only be so thought-provoking we recognize that we can only be so adequate in our presentation of things
And so our uh our goal is not to be the front and center of attention our goal is to be basic uh we just set the table we want to be waiters host for you to really dive in into something greater uh than us um so our first thought
That we want to examine in light of or joining an organization in light of thinking about it leaving one renouncing out of one uh is okay well what as a believer specifically what do we desire the most and we can unpack this in a dialogue context later but right now just to kind
Of really refresh our thought process we want to just dedicate a few scriptures to to keep in mind as we are establishing our our position so as a christian what do we desire the most um luke 9 23-25 which ironically luke is writing to a greek audience he’s writing to
The common person um not so much the religious person of the day and he’s being directed by peter to he was directed by peter to write many of uh many thoughts within his gospel luke’s gospel so we’re going to examine a few things here one is what jesus has said specifically
To peter and his disciples and luke’s recorded he said uh then luke 9 23-25 says then jesus said to all of them if anyone wants to come after me he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me for whoever save his life will lose it but whoever
Loses his life for my sake will save it and what does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet lose or forfeit his very own self uh or soul his very essence of himself so this in light of this i mean this speaks loudly already we allow the scriptures
To speak uh we see what jesus is saying he’s saying to his uh followers those that are around him that are listed that have been listening to him preach and teach for some time uh and they’ve seen him do miracles they see him do at this point in his
Ministry they’ve seen jesus do a lot of things that were uh just beyond reason right and at this particular point he wants to advise them that look you know look it’s not about it’s not about uh being a better you it’s being a it’s about being a whole new creation once
You follow me he said if anyone wants to come after me he must deny himself so it’s not that he needs to deny his uh his his his desires is the fact that he denies his desires if it uh denies the person he’s following the person he’s following this disciple this person
Is is is and what is being prescribed here is jesus himself he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me and she says for whoever wants to save his life we’ll lose it so in other words our desire if if our desires are holy and they are
Desires that go beyond time it doesn’t require us to have a particular place a particular time a particular item or a possession or car house situation right our desire should be beyond that if they are holy if there is something that god has given us that desire is to have eternal life
More so than just this life on this earth and that’s what he’s saying if you really uh want to save your life you’ll lose it for my sake because i’m the very one who killed who will give you everlasting life so losing your life and lifestyle for his sake
Um you’ll actually find true life because his life that he gives us is forever and uh it’s uh the reasoning he gives reasoning like hey i mean if you gain the whole world in your life in the life that you want if you gain the whole world
What is it really pro how profitable is it if you you can just lose uh everything at the end what what matters is what is everlasting not what we can touch and taste and see um so that’s that’s jesus for us right there um we could almost shut it down at that
Point but we want to kind of unpack a little more here here’s another thought as god provided us a place in himself to belong now many people that join any kind of organization right they have this sense of belonging and that’s the issue it’s a sense of belonging there’s something that they
They see in an organization where they see in in someone where they see in in a group of people that they feel like you know they must belong and in order to belong in order to feel wanted in order to feel cared for they must join in
Hands or in unity with these people or this particular person but look at what paul said through to the roman church which is probably the most uh critical and pivotal text uh to to rome because rome was the center of the known world um and so he’s talking to christians
Pretty much of the known world and he’s saying for none of us lives to himself alone and none of us do not dies to himself alone if we live we live to the lord and if we die we die to the lord so whether we live or die we belong to the lord
And for this reason christ died and returned to life that he might be lord of both the dead and the living so as you as we read the previous text it helped us see uh as we heard on from the previous text it helped us see you know our our the
Nature of our walk that we are denying ourselves to find life in christ and that life in christ is a reminder more so in this text that he controls both life and death so this is where we are are leading our thoughts to understand that if we have a sense of belonging
If we if we are lacking that sense of belonging jesus has opened up the door for us to understand that it’s not just the fact that we can belong to something but it’s the person in him that has control over life and death that if we belong to him you know
Our life is in his hands right so if we live we live in the lord if we die we die to the lord’s heart even our death doesn’t belong to us anymore that’s the beauty about being in the faith in christ is the fact that he swallows the death
And gives you the victory of life he gives us the victory of life so as believers if we remind ourselves of these things just right off the top i think that it will do us much good um so whether we live or die we belong to the
Lord and for this reason christ died and returned to life that he might be the lord of both the dead and of the living um more more evidence there’s a treasury of scripture that we need to tap into and uh the next ver uh back to luke we got to go back to
Luke he’s saying he is not the god of the dead but of the living for all uh so forth to him all are alive if you want life if you want fulfillment in life what better way than to go to the god of the living that actually gives life that actually imputes life
Um philippians bought back to paul we’re kind of flipping back and forth from paul to luke but paul’s saying again to the church in philippi i eagerly i eagerly expect and hope i will in no way be ashamed but will have complete boldness so that now as always christ will be
Exalted in my body whether by life or by death think about that the expectation when we desire him he gives us new expectations our expectations are that we will not only not be ashamed but we will have complete boldness no matter where we stand so that now as
Always christ will be exhausted in our body whether by life or by death so even if we die a tragic death in the world’s eyes let it be known that our boldness in christ is what matters more than how we die we are we are we are we are taken out of
This world into a new life in christ and it requires to just trust in him and and that trust leads us to behave in ways that people just will have no idea uh how other than a miracle that we can think the way we do that’s real christianity um anything other
Less than that would be of the world and we’re going to talk about that soon they said um paul again back to paul he’s right in the church of thessalonica he died for us so that whether we are awake or sleep we may live together with him praise god so um last one
I had to say this one for last because i’ll be honest i don’t feel i’m qualified to even repeat this text because i i i it’s it’s let’s just read it well forget about me lesson three luke 12 3-5 what you have spoken in the dark will be
Heard in the daily life and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the house tops i tell you my friends do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after they can do no more but i will show you whom you should fear fear the one
Who after you have been killed has the authority to throw you into hell and he didn’t stop there he said yes i tell you fear him now the reason we brought this up is because we have to realize that if we do serve and if we do live for the god of life
There is alternatives and the only alternatives is death if we don’t choose life we choose death and if we choose our own way realize that there’s nothing that we can hide from the one who has control over all things there’s nothing we can hide we
Can hide we can hide and and and play around with our with with our fellow brothers and sisters you know whether they be sorrows or whether they be uh um if it’s frat brothers or whether whoever they may be they could be our brother’s fleshly brothers they could be our
Church members but the thing is we can fool them but there is going to come a day when our inner thoughts what we’ve done and what we said will come to the forefront and we need to make sure that our sense of belonging wasn’t in something less than christ
Uh or with or christ plus this because i tell you my friends do not be afraid of those who kill the body okay you don’t have to fear man so much you got to keep lying to them to beef up an image he said they can kill you at the at the
Worst what’s the worst a man can do he can kill you all right okay that’s the worst but that’s not the worst that can happen to you he says but i will show you whom you should fear fear the one who after you have been killed has the authority to
Cast you into hell yes i tell you fear him everything we do matters every decision we make matters so we’re going to continue on i know that’s a little heavy uh for a sunday evening but it’s we’re talking about a sense of belonging here and if we belong in god
And we belong in him we need to understand fully who he is okay all right next thought what has god said about family so we have this sense of family this sense of belonging that we all really want here right and uh just briefly during it there’s three
Year men three-year ministry that jesus had uh he shattered a lot of prevailing notions of what it meant to be part of a family and while jesus was you know he was talking into a crowd his mother and brother stood outside of the crowd wanting to speak to him and i believe he
Might have been actually in a room um but nonetheless uh someone came to him said hey your mother your brothers and your brothers are standing outside they want to speak with you and he replied to them uh wait who is my mother and who are my brothers then he pointed to his disciples
And he said uh here are my mothers and brothers for whoever does the will of my father in heaven is my mother and my sister and my brother now this could be a controversial text because many people can say whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa so he’s saying family doesn’t matter like
I love my family i would die for my family right we have these these very tender notions about family but i just want to unpack this to be oh i’m sorry one guy jumped ahead of the other to be clear about family jesus is not saying that the biological
Family isn’t important he’s not dismissing his mother and his brothers what he’s doing is making it clear a theological point that the kingdom of heaven the most important family connection is spiritual not physical and this is truth made explicitly clear in john’s gospel when the evangelist says
Yet to all who received him to those who believed in his name he gave the right to become the children of god children born of the not of natural descent okay you’re not born into this because you’re black or because you’re white or because you’re any any natural
Thing that you can’t control nor of human decision so you don’t come to the author off alter and choose god okay that’s not how this happens either or of a husband’s will i like how he put that in there because a lot of in that day and even today in today’s
Time what fears women most about getting married is a dominant husband a husband that is dominant that says my way or no way okay and and that type of man is was was ancient and he’s modern it’s that type of man is still here and alive and he’s talking to him too he
Says no i don’t it doesn’t matter what you want man it doesn’t matter what you say or do you must be born of god and to be born of god is to be born again right so that’s our clip being clear about family um all right that was the text itself right
Who are my mothers who my brothers right all right so um just wanted to put this in here let’s keep talking about family he came to his own right and his own did not receive him but to all who did receive him to those who believed in his name he gave the
Right to become the children of god children born out of blood nor desire or the will of man but born of god so this is the actual text itself all right so we’re about to end our setting the table right because once the table is said then we can eat right then
We can actually dive into this very sensitive but very um i would say thunderous topic about greek life all right but uh next thought what has she said about the world and we had to go here because it is what it is if we’re believers right these
This is how we set our minds on things above we have to follow the text and let the text speak for us i have written to you fathers because you know him who is from the beginning i have written to you young men because you are strong and the word
Of god abides in you and you have overcome the evil one but do not love the world or anything in the world if anyone loves the world the will of the father is not in him for all that is in the world the desires of the flesh
The desires of the eyes and the pride of life is not from the father but of the world so if you’re going to choose to be in this organization if you want to uh stay in this organization if this organization is of the world if it doesn’t lead you
To christ or keep you mindful of christ then you have to question are you in the right place okay all right um now there’s a very interesting topic here about what is he saying about justice what what what has god said about justice sorry for the typo or making things right
Um and what we’ll do is we’re gonna we’re going to allow this to be something that can be talked about in our dialogue uh because i mean i’m giving you the reference here um i’m giving you kind of some keynotes here to write down for yourself but i think that
This can be addressed later only because a lot of these organizations right they they have this people rights or justice social justice mentality uh that typically um is sometimes it’s para-biblical sometimes it’s anti-biblical but the point is if we want to talk about justice and making things right um
The conversation that nathan has with david back in second samuel uh it’s 14 verses but it’s it’s an actual story that nathan brings to david uh and he’s he’s helping david see the big picture of the the rage and the outrage over oppression where does that need to be where did
That what does that outrage need to be placed and uh if you know if you know the story it could kind of bring out a chuckle if you think about it but if you don’t know the story second samuel 12 1-14 um it is it is the powerful message
About justice that god has towards us in how we interact with the world so our final thoughts to consider does making things right require us to be an organized organization uh do we assume the gospel or consume the gospel and what are the results of doing one over the other so
These are some thoughts to consider you know making things right if we’re an organization to make things right is it required that we’re in this organization to make things right will this organization amplify our desire to make things right and when it comes to making things right
In this world that we’re living in should we be in an organized organization i would say yes but is that organized organization filled with the holy spirit that’s the question um now do we assume the gospel or consume the gospel many of us assume it
We know the set of facts we know the stories we can recite it from childhood all the way to adulthood but we take the gospel and recite it more than we actually understand it and live through it and feel the actual repercussions of it so we’ll unpack that a little later too and
What are the results of doing one on the other well gabe anybody what happens when you assume you get it what’s one of the downfalls of assuming something you get it wrong many times when you make assumptions you’re actually doing it yourself with this service that’s right so um
We’re gonna tap into our next part uh but i just wanted to under i want us to kind of see what is our apologetics here when you go back to when you go back to these these these these people and and the people we’re talking to
How do we how do we as believers if someone’s in an organization if someone’s out of organization if someone’s planning on joining an organization and even those that have denounced their organization status how what is our apologetic to them how do we how do we share with them how do we actually
Involve ourselves with them in a way that pleases god when it comes to our effective witness of god okay so our we have a method we have a good better best method and just a simple walkthrough of what that looks like it’s good to not be alone man should not
Be alone man god didn’t want man to be alone it’s not a good thing for men to be alone right there’s a biblical there’s a biblical uh and and practical context to not wanting to be alone that’s good it’s we shouldn’t want to be alone so the sense of belonging is actually okay
But it could be better to belong to an orderly and orderly fashion to love and a commitment to people people that you know that are committed to your well-being and it could be much better to not just not be alone but you can also be with
People and and have a good time and have orderly uh way about you know how you live with them but what’s best we know what’s good we know what could be better but what’s best it’s best to be in a healthy church home with like-minded individuals sharing the
Mind of christ and i’ll give you one small example of myself that we’ll maybe unpack later but um my wife just recently had a nice trip to puerto rico with uh with my um my mother-in-law she just turned 60 last week and it was a beautiful time but i had to stay stay
And work because i just recently got a newer a new role and so i had to kind of you know stay in i’m in accounting so i have to close books for the year and so forth um so anyways i had to make do with celebrating my
Birthday alone on the day of my birthday at least it wasn’t like we still went out when she got back but today we’re going for a whole week and the point i’m making is going out and hanging out and just being you know around like-minded people
Has been a struggle you know in my past mainly i used to depend on the entourage or my crew right to to be to be kind of good and even when i go out um but i actually went out i got some food i met i met a couple
And it turned out to be a good time because i was with like-minded individuals right but if i go back to that place where i used a party party party when in my early my early 20s if i went back to that place without like-minded individuals well i could be
Definitely putting myself in a subjective place where i could end up falling back into uh those temp those temptation tempting moments um like you know being you know being a kid again you know and so uh that’s just something to think about when we’re talking about our reasoning for why we would
Go back you know or go into our organization again or we’re a veteran in our organization and we don’t see a problem with how we’re there why we’re there we you know there’s you know we all have convictions and i’m just letting you know my conviction on the level of what i know
Would draw me back into a place that i know i shouldn’t be versus being in that same place but having uh having a uh having a fortress of people that are actually like-minded how that makes a better difference so you can take that you can use that but
Just knowing from from my from my experience uh that’s that’s that’s true to me um as far as what’s what’s what’s been in my life but we’re gonna allow gabe to go ahead and finish this up with applying our apologetics asking some really serious questions
And uh so we can all have a nice little dialogue in a moment oh uh last thing remember you know trusting um trusting we want to trust our convictions more than our emotions right and uh we’ll talk about this a little later this was a slide from a previous event but uh
It’s just our reminders that we want to want to keep in contact with thank you for that james uh man i wish i was as grand eloquent as you are um you know when i speak uh you know i attended i tend to hit different um so basically we’re gonna go ahead and
Get to these questions in these dialogues i know you know people are ready and anxious but for the most part it’s just what i’m gonna be talking about is nine divine points right just nine divine points four points for greeks four points for x greeks and one point for every believer so
Let’s go ahead and um there you go all right so four points you know for greeks you know for people who might say that you know it’s okay for a christian to be in these organizations right right a lot of them say that these organizations are based off christian principles all right
And so as christians right we have to understand that salvation is a gift from god right so salvation is a gift from god christian principles will always acknowledge the gift so uh john 1 12 13 says but to all who have received him who believed in his name he had gave the
Right to become children of god who were born not of blood nor the will of flesh of the will of man but of god so basically like this so if if for organization or if someone right you’re not talking about like just the nine divine nine right we’re talking
About any organization or any anybody to come to you and say hey look we’re based off christian principles right you can’t make principles of something that’s a miracle the fact that god grants us the ability to believe and have faith right that’s a miracle you can’t make principles off that because if
If you if you if you try and make principles of christianity right when god comes for those that he given the gift to you fall short so that’s just something to think about that’s one point like i said i’m not like james go ahead knock out these points uh so
Just because the organization do good deeds doesn’t make them christian all right philippians 2 13 for it is god who works in you both to will and to work for his good pleasure so it’s the holy spirit that causes us right we’re saved by grace through faith in the finished work of
Christ alone and the holy spirit comes in it it it helps us to to do those things that pleases god so when you’re looking at any organization right just because they do good deeds and they use christian principles that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s of god all right so uh third point
Pastors spiritual leaders social activists and family members will always fail in comparison to jesus so ephesians 5 1 therefore be emulators of god as beloved children so i know a lot of times people might sit back and say oh okay well my auntie is whatever right she’s in these
Organizations my uncle or i see my pastor or you know you see all these social rights or civil rights people just working hard and doing all these good things well that’s cool but our focus should be on christ right and a lot of times all right especially with the social activists they carry
A particular gospel like a social gospel right that you have to stop and think about this if if the gospel of light civil rights and moving forward and things of that nature if that was the true gospel if we achieve complete um justice right and some of those people
Go to hell then what good is it as a christian right let’s think about this are you willing to give up your civil rights for christ these organizations they’ve done a lot of good things for black people right but as a christian are you willing to give that up think about it
And that’s not just greeks that’s anything right because there’s people in the bible gave up their their lives to be a christian people were stoned to death right and there are other people who are getting persecuted today just for being christian so that’s just a rhetorical question uh fourth point
It will be unreasonable unbiblical to think that you are unaffected spirit um that you are unaffected spiritually over by spiritual matters by being associated with a particular group or association so a lot of people believe that you know that within themselves right that they have the ability to not be affected
By their association over group like a lot of people say you know i within myself you know i see certain things going on that is conflicting but that doesn’t that doesn’t resonate with me you know i’m still in control of myself so uh scripture is clear that uh
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers what partnership has righteousness have with lawlessness or what fellowship has with light i’m sorry what fellowship has light with darkness with uh accord as christ with was it the l or with the portion done i’m sorry what fortune does a believer share with an unbeliever
Well argument has the temple of god with idols ii corinthians 6 14 16. next point next slide all right um so for four points for my x grease go back go back i didn’t get a chance to get uh the red light uh the scripture verses in red when we was
Making a powerpoint thanks james so the first thing uh i’d like to say is uh less testimonies and more gospel less testimonies and more gospel right for i am unashamed of the gospel for it is the power of salvation to everyone who believes to the jew first and also to the greek that’s
Romans 1 16. right you you see a lot of youtube videos coming out when people are coming coming out and they’re speaking on their experience and they’re speaking on their experience right as christians if if you believe this is something that’s salvific you share the gospel you share christ crucified right you show
The sheep the shepherd testimonies are fine they’re good but it is a gospel that saves right second point not everyone who leaves these organizations in the name of christ to say that just straight up and down uh they went out from us but they were
Not of us for if they had been with of us they would have continued with us but they went out that it might become plain that they were not all of us so this was uh first john this is john speaking on the christians who uh went back to judaism
I was clear that hey look you know they didn’t they didn’t belong to us because they wasn’t with us right and jesus clearly said not everyone would say to me lord lord will enter in the kingdom of heaven but the one who does the will of my
Father who is in heaven and then he goes on to talk about you know did you not you know cast out demons and do certain things in my name and i say that because it’s it goes back to the gospel right you can have a compelling testimony and convince somebody
To leave an organization right but if you don’t give the gospel right then how do you know that person is saved you know there is it’s plenty of people coming out of these organizations and they’re claiming that the christians and you know they’re going off into other things that are may
Be just just as worse you know so um third point i only got two more points left all right you left the organization because you’re safe not to be saved right you don’t want to build up a workspace salvation right you have to remember that we are justified by faith
Right because if you sit back and you have this right you could easily easily have somebody sit back and say oh well if i had to denounce to be made with christ right then i got to be baptized or i have to speak in tongues all right and you would deny
That we are justified by faith alone in christ alone right which is what the bible teaches so last thing sorry uh last name you all might look at me crazy about this but this is not about christ versus greek gods but rather the gospel versus a false gospel right
Because a lot of people sit back and say oh yeah you know these organizations have minerva have diagnosis have might have what’s bastard right the people that in these organizations they don’t they don’t acknowledge that and so the gospel is you can have what you want in this world in christ
And when you when you speak to them that way they’ll be more accepting you can sit back you can show them rituals you can show them you know all these greek gods or whatever and you’ll shut them up because they probably won’t have a response but they’re not gonna
This is like okay well that’s just you you know you got to get to the root cause all right and that’s the thing a lot of people choose cause over christ and that’s something that we shouldn’t do and so going talking about the gospel right galatians 1 8
Where uh the apostle paul says but even if we or an angel from heaven shall preach to you a gospel contrary to when we preach let them be a curse last slide the last point the main point remember the gospel to every believer remember the gospel right
The gospel is the thing that we have our hope the finished work of christ right knowing that he took the wrath of god on our behalf right remember that going back to what james said that we assume it and we just think that it’s some nuclear warhead right for like the
Unbeliever or whatever no no the believer needs the gospel i need the gospel we all need the gospel on the line it’s the only track that needs to be repeated in the life of a believer because any we have hope right it is the gospel that we need to have
Correctly in order for salvation it is the gospel it is the gospel that makes us right with christ so regardless of what it is right if anything would separate us oh i’m sorry if anything that we have an issue with giving up for christ then there’s a problem
Right as believers we want to make sure that we give the gospel and give it correct so that they will know the god of the bible and if you’re in these organizations if these organizations are ungodly you know you should want to leave straight up and down
Because of what he did for us right he took on the wrath of god a lot of the ex people who denounced they like to sit back and talk about how these organizations have um have haze or they’re still hazing like there’s no amount of hazing right that a person or organization can
Do that can top the wrath of god that’s straight up and down and that’s something that we all need to be reminded of and this is the reason why we love jesus it’s easy to sit back and listen to music and get all teary-eyed and everything else but why do we love jesus
It’s a plethora of false information talking about god gonna give you this and god gonna give you that he’s gonna whisper in your ears and speak to you in ways that which the bible said that he won’t and yet we love something that we don’t even understand it is the gospel that is
The hope that we have that’s why it’s the main important point to remember the gospel that’s all i got to say amen amen so i mean just a second what he said i think not much else has to be said on on the presentation however uh
Yeah i mean what we have to just come come to the grips of what is the gospel sometimes we lose sight of it we we think of the set of facts okay yeah jesus loves me so much he died for my sins and he rose up on a third day
And and now everything’s all good there’s there’s a consequence to every choice the choice that god made in christ to take upon wrath and also impute life into believers that life is not to go into people that are alive that life is to go into people that are already dead
And and only the dead can be raised to life so we realize that that’s the context of our our quickening to the gospel our actual wake up moment uh the moment we’re actually delivered if we realize that we’re delivered then we live a deliberate life we don’t live a life that allows
Everybody to have their own opinion in a way that uh everyone has their own authority no we are we are subjected to the authority of god his word his truth and his life and there’s nothing above him um but everything’s below him how do we live
In light of that well we realize that it’s not just this this this this this equipping us to be soldiers you know it’s equipping us to be um alive so therefore when we come and we present our uh our case to others about truth we don’t do it out of
A sense of duty we do it out of a sense of love and it’s the love that god gives us that allows us to uh be disciplined in in the faith uh the love that god has it keeps us away from those temptations it keeps us away it protects us from our own
Self-destructions um so other than that i think that if we just remember that the gospel saved us to to from ourselves to god instead of god save me so i can be a better me if we replace the better me with a whole new us because of christ instead of just this
More remixed version that has a lot more philosophical things to say if we detach that from are the facts of what the gospel is then um although and only then will we actually live a life that is is seen by how do people see christ they hated him
Why because he had humility instead of pride you know he why would he come in on a donkey that doesn’t make sense why would he say to turn the other cheek if someone smacks me like i’m a slave and he says oh have the other cheek like i’m a friend
Like what what is what is what is the purpose it’s baffling now these are the types of parts or the parts of you know how do we view oppression well we don’t view oppression we we we delight in every context god’s given us for the purpose of what sharing
The gospel to those that are in the same situation worse or even better we’re new creations so understanding what that looks like in everyday in everyday life is also important we can’t just uh have a set of facts without the actual truth seeing heard and uh believe so that’s that’s what
We’re going to end for our presentation points um i definitely am um let’s do this uh before we get into the uh discussion questions uh were there anybody who wanted the same thing um concerning the presentation i believe keith wanted to say something keef you there
All right um before we get into the discussion questions then uh was there anybody else who had anything else to say uh on the topic the presentation or just on the topic alone we’re getting ready to start the dialogue yes sir can you get it uh yes and what uh hey we
Typically uh yeah let’s do this so um this is my first time so tell me how okay okay so typically what we would do we would uh put uh the information in the chat so that way we can know who you are is clarissa correct carlosa carlos hey carlos how you doing
So what what question did you have for us well i thought you said comment or question oh well yeah so yeah this like you said this is your first night so pretty much like you know after we you know give like a little presentation or whatever it’s pretty much like open dialogue we
Got some questions just to kind of guide the dialogue but you know after the presentation is pretty much open season so is there anything you would like to say just on the topic or on the presentation or just comment just uh yeah okay so i know um
I said this is my first time and so you know i did love the gospel of jesus christ actively serve in our church community um at my church um and and with you know my organization but one of the things like you said the gospel remember the gospel and our relationships with
Christ jesus are so very very important and all of us have a mandate in mission for that gospel and that is to therefore go now to judea samara and the uttermost parts of the world to share that gospel you know and when you were going through the
Points and you talked about you know the conversation with um david and i think it was nathan um and there was a story with with bathsheba and everything like that you know my mind went a lot of places and one of my mind was you know
The the hebrew boys that were thrown in a fire and the fact that they were in another nation another country another setting but their gospel light and their faith you know my mind went to the fact that after jesus’s um crucifixion and burial and resurrect resurrection and the the disciples were
Said to do the work a group called the hellenists came to the disciples because their group was being neglected we’re still talking about people with the gospel then we talk about nicodemus who is part of you know the the pharisees and sadducees but he came to
Jesus and jesus told you must be born again in him there there are several i know you picked up several points and several scriptures in the bible but it’s almost like you’re setting it up where if you’re aligned with certain groups then you may be ineffective for the gospel
And you talked about being in the church and it’s like but the church lives in you and your light shining but your relationship with christ sets your mission and your mandate and the great commission was actually laid out in genesis and our bible is one story but it encompasses all god’s people
All over not and it does not take anybody out because of their alignment with any group or organization but it does take you back to what is your heart condition and mindset for what it is that god has called you to do with the varying gifts and talents that
He’s given you to utilize for the sake of the gospel that’s in church out of church or wherever because god can use who he wants to use however he wants to use that’s my comments for right now all right thanks for that uh did anybody
Want to uh um james did you want to address um oh yeah well first i i appreciate her for coming on and you know her first time it’s a beautiful thing that we can you know just be in an environment that allows us to think and allows us to uh
You know have healthy conversations that i’m pretty sure most of us need more of so uh yes i i definitely want to address what she said that was very critical i believe as far as you know the gospel will take us to foreign lands foreign places um and our point of emphasis was
That um when you’re in when you’re imparted with the gospel yeah we’re not saying you can’t take that anywhere matter of fact um we we implore anyone who has uh contacts uh with these organizations to treat these organizations as their mission field you know but there is an order and and there’s a
You know you have you have to have the you know it really comes down to kind of romans 14 right you know the the convictions that have been laid upon your heart some people can’t go into those environments with the gospel like a knight in shining armor without
Getting a little smudge on them you know and and they and they start aligning themselves not just with uh the organization from a top-down perspective but bottom up it gets a little muddy in those areas so you bring the gospel as a and you treat this place as your mission field
You just got to be careful and how far you go how long you participate uh if you’re if if it caused you to stumble a little bit to stay in that environment too long well you have to you have to monitor that but we’re not saying that you know
Because you’ve been imparted with the gospel that you need to flee from these people no no no we’re just saying that when you have the gospel you realize what what’s most important in your in your life and if you’re going to go back to those environments and to those people
And you will you’ll go back to them with you know with the full armor of god on and and when you have the full armor uh your your effectiveness will be as far as he leads instead of how far you want to go so uh let’s um did you want to reply back
Correct uh business clarissa carlitt carlosa i was just you know because when you say that it’s like then what is your perspective of the environment because i think with any organization i heard one of you gentlemen say you were an accountant and so when i think about it that means
You had to choose a school you had to go through a type of learning you had to pass you know certain tests you had to pick a company you know and you work for a company and they have a set of you know rules or parameters like you said
You know that to close out a month or a year you have to be in a certain place and everything like that but it does not take away from who you are in christ jesus you understand what your job your mission is and what it is
That you have to do to keep the roof of your head be the the leader of your household and support whatever other things that you may do because you chose christ as the head of your life you know that means that he was the person that you decided you
Know i’m gonna pray about this father and i’m i’m gonna think through this process or whatever before i do that because it to me in a sense the way you presented it that could be anything the the place you work at heck even the churches you go to unfortunately many of
Our churches have been wrapped with different scandals and it’s the person and their sin that has caused themselves and some others to stumble but doesn’t mean that everybody in that place has been corrupted because of that person’s sin but your eyes are open makes you more sensitive and aware but everything should start
With a conversation with god through prayer right absolutely yeah that’s what that’s the goal here the goal is not to be that knight in shining armor to deliver those that you know uh are you know away from the truth that’s not the first step the first step is are we
In the truth you know we do a self-examination and we we pray we go to the lord yes absolutely we seek him in his word and so you know with that being the case you know uh you know just a quick to the quick response about the accounting thing you know i
You know yes there’s set rules and principles accounting principles that have to be followed for reporting and irs and so forth but um it’s a little different from a greek letter organization or organization that actually makes truth claims uh regarding life uh regarding righteousness regarding duty
And honor and so forth so when you go when you step up when you’re stepping into those lines where there’s an organization making truth claims versus organizations that says hey we need the books close on these clients you know it’s a it’s just two different contexts you know like now this organization that
I work for was more than just an accounting firm if it was just uh you know a place of uh you know that they’re they’re in there having prayer and they’re praying to the the god of the account accounting world you know you know if if that is what’s going on
In the next room then i have to start questioning okay what the environment here is not conducive to just doing accounting it’s it’s it’s much more here than just accounting so well see i guess that’s why i’m confused because i’m a member of one of the greek organizations
And i’ve never had anybody make a truth claim to me for me on my behalf or had to recite any truthfully that contrary to what i believe in christ i’ve never had to do a ritual that well then well then then and and i guess that’s the thing that
That i’m like okay i’m trying to figure this okay out because well we’re gonna we’re gonna open up into these questions and maybe some things can kind of hold on hold on so now uh angie uh had a question for um you so okay angie you want to uh ask your question angela
Can you hear me yeah we can hear you okay sorry i forgot to uh mute that’s the question i was going to ask um uh carlissa was are you are you implying or as it sounded like you were saying that you can still be in these greek organizations and still share the gospel
Uh message now you you you made it clear just now that you’re in so you’re in one of these um mphc organizations yes ma’am i am okay so i’m an ex-member of one of those organizations and and i’m an ex-sweetheart to one of the fraternities and i have read all nine
Of their ritual book and i know that he you know when we talk about the presentation um i don’t know which one you’re part of i don’t have all the rituals in front of me i do have delta sigma theta because that was the one that i denounced and renounced from um and
They all have false gods they all have a hymn they all have pledges and things that are said that are ungodly so yes we are to share the gospel i’m a um i’m an auditor and i know there’s certain things that we can’t show far as like taxes and um you know people’s
Social security numbers but that’s what the intention of we don’t want to harm the people or you know that that are we’re doing the taxes for and things like that um so it’s kind of like with these rituals you have to go back and question and ask
Yourself one read the whole thing from front to back because i know when i got offline um like i didn’t look at it for a long time so unless you’re like usually bringing in a line or things like that when you look at them in detail
You know it may say god because i looked at a lot of them where it said in the presence of god and what people forget when it wasn’t you’re not vowing to god you’re seeing this oath in the presence of god and god tells us do not have any
Other gods before me so a lot of people in their mind they’re thinking okay well no i i don’t put this organization before god as in like you know my organization is number four because god first my family and this this and the third but when you’re saying that oath
So i asked you to go back and like um really read your ritual and your oath and everything and see is it saying in the presence of god and just there’s other there’s a lot of other um I know on one of the things early on because i know one of the questions was you know why are you doing it you know what are you doing what is it you’re trying to align with but there was a few things because one i went into some serious prayer before the lord
My pastor is not part of a greek organization but i counsel with him but there’s also the verbiage in there that tells you you don’t have to say or do anything that you feel compromises your faith whether that is an activity on a sunday any words that are saying any activity
Or anything like that it tells you there you don’t have to participate and that’s just life in general but in order to because i personally i personally i don’t want to work on sundays i don’t work on sundays everybody knows that my time that i spend at my church i don’t
With whatever is going on and even with the organization i’m with i let them know these are my priorities and me personally and i was at lunch with some of um my my sister’s day i told them oh just so y’all know and my husband knows this
There will be no triumphant ceremony for me because that’s not what i desire because for me jesus first that ain’t got nothing to do with me being saved and in my salvation and would i believe in anything like that and again that’s because i have the the authority
To direct that path according to my faith in christ jesus but it doesn’t mean i have to isolate myself and it doesn’t mean i think let me say let me make a comment so we’re not saying okay so i got out of my group organization because that is a
One-on-one thing that we’re talking about right so when you because i’ve talked about it members that are still involved okay you some people say they would mumble over the pledge some people say they they really didn’t say it really but you are still binded because these organizations go back to the rituals you
Are binded to your line sisters you are binded to everybody this is your covenant because it’s like a marriage okay you are binded to these people this is a lifetime commitment that you made now we know that we are to be unequally yoked with unbelievers these are your people
That you call sister okay we’re really supposed to only call sisters in christ and then of course your blood sister now you’re calling these people who are not christian because there’s people there’s non-christians in all of these organizations and you’re calling these people your sisters okay that’s one two even though you may
Not have you you’re supposed to verbally say the oath right so you’re you’re saying the oath whether you mumble through it but you’re agreeing to it you’re agreeing to a to binding yourself to it and you’re doing this in the presence of god not to god but the
Presence of god you’re saying that pledge so so if you’re doing all of this you know i do question to not just you but to anybody what is the point in being in this organization if you cannot have true sisterhood because you can’t you’re not supposed to god says do not
You’re not supposed to have sisterhood okay with them and then you’re not supposed to be pledging oaths in the presence of god to something that is ungodly and if people say because you want to do or you want to do community service we know that you can do that in the church
So it kind of goes back to if you’re not doing all of these things that you said that that you’re not but i still believe you have to say the pledge and you have to sign off you have to actually sign off on these pledges to in order to be
In these organizations and you agree to them when you go to your meetings and you sing the hymns and you’re saying all of that and hymns is really like a praise it’s really a godly thing and when you look at natural pen atlantic council when you look up altar when it’s certain
Terminology that they’re using in these rituals as well so i do encourage you to look back at them and i do encourage you to go back and like think why am i even doing this in the first place because all the stuff that most people are saying that they can do
We’re really supposed to do that in our church now when i don’t isolate myself because i i do have family in these organizations i go out to eat with them there’s nothing sinful about going out to eat with somebody and talking with them there’s nothing simple about you know interacting with these people
We’re not saying that you can’t do that what we’re saying is you are in a binded covenant with these people you’re in a binded covenant with this false god now so that’s that’s the part where it’s like where it’s sinful and i can if you want to talk later we
Can actually go over rituals and about that but i don’t want to keep going thank you for that uh so um thanks for the angie uh martin you want to say something and then keith martin yeah yeah can you hear me yeah oh martin yeah i think just to uh
Point out something notice about the zealots and the hellenistic ideas right zealots like uh one of the disciples of jesus was the zealot well jesus is a friend of sinners and therefore he has an interest in the salvation of all kinds of people and yet jesus didn’t become a zealot
To save a zealot and neither did simon who was saved as the zealot continued as a zillah right so i think we need to make a distinction between well yes i have opportunity to minister to everyone but it doesn’t require you to be a part of it before you can manage
To because what happens when you are part of one of the big problem is if you are going to be a part of something you want to make sure that you could do it with a good conscience and say hey best thing that i’m doing as a part of
It is also the glory of god not just what they are doing in certain things but i can say that if there is evil in here i could say this is evil on this part of you know so the bible said don’t um have fellowship with ungodliness but
Reprove the works of darkness and so if let’s say that oh has aspects of it of things in there that are not according to truth well in that sense it will say that you cannot make that fool because you will be affirming that which is not according
To the truth so for instance serving people like i think we could serve people with other organizations like for instance the red cross salvation army they don’t require you to take an oath before you help out others but in this case i think one is an obligation under christ to ask
Themselves what is written here can i affirm all these things and say in jesus name also help me god to do this if the true claims that are being made to be a part of it has aspects of it that is not agreeable to our faith then
That means we cannot in a good conscience say that we are doing it unto god and we need to find other ways of fulfilling our mission of serving others or even being able to show love to others in a certain way or the other so that’s what i wanted to ask
Oh thank you for that martin uh keith you want to say something anyone that is uh professing christian and professing greek um if you saw a scripture in this in the bible that said that it was sin to be in these greek organizations would you would you leave
It right now i mean you don’t have to answer it out loud but just think about it i i just you know would you just leave after someone points it to you or uh that the verse saying hey this is sin almost like a verse clear is
Adultery in sin if you could find it clear would you leave the organization immediately and that’s that was my that’s my question but if you want to answer it out loud you you could if you want to but i i don’t know who’s all right
So so let’s do this uh you can uh directly message him uh well uh did anybody wanna answer that question per se no you can use the chat all right well if not you cannot directly uh uh reach out to keith is uh mr e
So we’re gonna go ahead and go into our uh first question uh of the night so is it okay for a christian to be a member of these organizations explain your answer i’m muted no okay all right you all don’t speak at once i think we kind of addressed a little
Bit of this already you know with the the previous comments um and even the the last comment from keith you know he said you know he basically asking the same question let me ask that question again please so so let’s let’s do this uh sorry housekeeping rules if you want to speak
Either raise your hand or use the chat just so we can keep some order so jason you want to go yeah okay all right ask that question one more time uh is it okay for a christian to be a member of these organizations and explain your answer okay that was your question
Yeah uh cool uh clarissa did you want to uh speak on that i know you were speaking i’m sorry no no i apologize i was just going to say i think that’s what we just had a discussion on so you know like right now it’s for those that have already
Denounced or renounced or never been a part of it um right i mean and so my answer is still the same and as the gentleman asked if if i showed it to you clearly in the scripture it almost you almost want it the the thing about it is the
I was out of town visiting somebody and i saw your postcard and i thought okay this is this is really it’s really good because it’s um honestly it’s one of those things that i prayed about before making the decision and as being in the organization i’m constantly um
You know praying about it and seeking god’s face and studying about it um just came off a 15-week class called perspectives for a deep dive into the gospels you know um and like i had already stated actively involved in living out the faith that i believe in christ jesus and
So when the gentleman asked the question i can tell you this it wouldn’t be because a man told me oh no you need to get out of it because i have a personal relationship with our lord and savior jesus christ and i do read the bible and i do study and i do
Have a prayer life and i go to sunday school and i go to bible study and i take outside classes i’ve done international missions i work it within the city and out of the city not for anybody’s pat on the back or anything like that my own personal conviction it
Would be because of my conviction in christ jesus and my relationship with him that would have me to change my mind about disassociating myself um from a people group and i do know times when i can be someplace in times when i can’t beat somebody because that has to do with
Your own weakness and your own temptation you know and and the thing is if you’re asking the lord to order your steps for you to be where he is those steps are ordered but um so yeah so i take bible study very seriously all right man that uh well
Again we say thank you for coming on uh because we passed out some flyers and we didn’t know who’s gonna come on but um you know thank you for that um uh culture did you want to say anything oh i did um so i do uh quite a bit of
Study on this sort of thing um uh all the way uh back to like ancient babylon and uh i just want to say like carlos i just love your heart and um i just think you you just sound like a really beautiful woman of god and i just appreciate you
And just enjoyed listening to everything you’re saying um i think i i just felt like i had a little bit of clarity maybe to share um i think it’s not the it’s not the factual information of like this creates demonic contracts or and it can also open doors to people it’s um
I don’t think you deny that i just i i think like you were saying you will leave if your conviction tells you to and i just i just want to commend you for that because i just like that’s kind of what i just i’ve heard in your voice the whole time
And it’s i just think it’s a really beautiful thing and you i was just i wrote down i was like maybe you’re just a light in a dark place um because uh we have to i have a very fringe uh little ministry to decide i do as well
And my me and my wife are discussing like we have to go out like jesus and we have to go get the sheep sometimes we have to break the sheep’s like legs just to bring them back um but sometimes we really go into a dark place and the most compelling moves of
God as is when you know are the nonsensical really not smart to be going in there like crack houses machine gun preacher like all these radicals um so i just i love things the best and i want to thank that of you and uh i just really uh
Want to reinforce and encourage you you praying into this and i think you said you renounced it right and so it no longer no that was somebody else oh well i just i just want to encourage you from just doing a lot of study on this
This is a sneaky a sneaky thing that’s been all the way back to babylonian times where they uh they do get you to legally make uh contracts with demons and and i’ve you know i’ve heard a number of things from uh people who are in the demonic and they say this is how
It works you know so you have we have people behind enemy lines wonderful beautiful christians that that that blow the lid off this thing and they say hey like this is how they do it and this is how they get you and this is when they this is how they make you ineffective
And and stuff like that so i just want to encourage you but uh and let you know you’re very loved so so thank you for that closer uh and let me say this um man the the fact that you came on um uh clarissa speaks volumes cause i was passing out flyers and
You know they’re just some people they wouldn’t even ask the question like no like but the fact that you know you came on that i don’t know who else is on is a member of these organization it it shows that you love god it acts for real because because it’s if
If if i was completely like i if if if i was in the organization and i saw this and i didn’t love god i wouldn’t even come but the fact that you’re willing to hear the other perspective let you know that you’re a sheep um all right we can
Uh james uh was there anybody else had anything i don’t see anything in the chat or any hands uh so yeah you can go ahead and switch so is there anything wrong with just seeing this as a social group for christians man i gotta i gotta tap on this first um
Because i have christian brothers friends that are actually still members like they’re older members i mean they they’re not like going to the you know the different cruises and all that stuff that’s happening but they’re they’re a part of it you know and i actually have a friend as a queue dog i
Mean and he sees a cute dog like it’s real but at the same time when it comes to down to the the actual organization he’s like i’ve showed him videos right i sent him a video like is this your people is this this is this is this what y’all doing
And you know it was a video of uh some q dogs at a college pulling their pants down and just it was it was just the straw with the straw i mean it was it was pretty disgusting but you know in agreement you know he’s not just a christian he’s like a biblical
You know a biblical believer he’s like yeah i don’t know what that is like he i don’t he’s i don’t know i like i’ve been in the q dog situation since where 89 right i don’t know what that is that that’s not what i got into and so you have different perspectives
From different people that have gotten in in different particular times however his position is like look um these are my brothers like i want to share the gospel with them the only reason they’re going to come to my house i’m gonna we’re gonna feed them and we’re gonna talk about the lord and
I’m gonna just want to make sure that they understand where i stand now you know and and they understand where i stand now and we can still be cool and i like wearing purple you know i got the brand on my shoulder but it doesn’t mean what it used to mean for
Me like what it means now for me is just you know this is my social group you know this is the people i talk to these are my brothers you know i don’t go to the whole conventions and all that i just i’m a cute dog till i die he may
Say that part which is a little unnerving but he’s like but i’m only a cue dog in a sense that this is like an organization this is a social group that i became a part of now this is where it dropped this is where we draw the line because many
Times people that are really gung-ho like delta gung-ho aka i mean they in it like you know this is what they do this is where they have to start this is this this question right here is very befuddling because it’s like well i want to see it as a social
Group but it feels wrong to just see it as a social group so this is the very important question i believe that can start really separating the chaff from the wheat when it comes to people that are involved in these organizations but i’ll tell you just from my personal experience
I i know a guy that’s a believer that only looks at it as a social group aspect but at the same time you know he likes parts he picks and choose he picks and chooses what he likes for the purple and the gold you know and but he doesn’t want to associate with
The actual ritual stuff so it’s kind of odd right i mean it’s like he’s trying to be a part of it but not really all right thanks for that james we have uh was it uh kia riggins yes hi shalom everyone that’s correct my name is kia
Um i i did want to briefly answer this question from my own personal input and i’d have to say yes there is something wrong with just seeing these groups that fall under the national panhellenic council as just a social group for christians one there are social groups for christians
Um that exists under greek banners that are not under the npac and you don’t have to go through the rituals but the very fact that the rituals are involved in these organizations makes it so far from social because you can be in a social group without having to go through all of that
Um without pledging kneeling or vowing and binding yourselves but that that’s just that’s that’s my belief that’s my understanding and i did want to comment and say i i joined the conversation a little late and i heard the presentation on the the importance of the gospel
And i want to say that it is essential that the gospel is mentioned as the basis for this message and the reason is because the very definition of what a christian is or christianity alone is different for everyone just because you say you’re a christian and i recognize someone else as a
Christian doesn’t mean you both have the same beliefs and understandings right and for that reason understanding salvation the bible way is important to establish when discussing this topic with anyone whether they have um whether they’re members or whether they were on the line and dropped because it’s not just the members
That uh those of us that have denounced um we want to reach and we want to have a discussion with but it’s also those who are eternal whatever eternal crescent eternal scrolls eternal lamps they still have begun the process and there still should be a renouncing for them because they begun
The process because what what some people don’t understand is this is a spiritual matter that you know that’s why you can’t just look at it as a social group it’s a spiritual matter and then finally i wanted to say i pledged in 1995 undergrad and i was announced in 2009
I established the website denounce greek at that time if you’ve ever visited the site i app appreciate you visiting but at that time when when i created that website uh i understood that if you don’t examine where people are first before introducing what is to them a life-changing ministry
It will cause a wall to go up and we want dialogue exactly what we’re doing tonight we want dialogue so that the walls can come down and we can have a healthy conversation to um to address this topic with critical thought based on scripture based on scripture only not on on opinion because
We got a deal in fact and i just want to encourage everyone to keep this in mind when you are having these discussions with brothers and sisters who are still a part of their oath and and they may be on the fence you may be the deciding
Factor for them but meet them where they are and and you will be very successful at reaching their heart and allowing the most high to use you as an oracle to talk to that brother or sister that’s all i have amen for that uh keith uh you’re next
And then we’re gonna have angie um yeah the reason why i would say i have to say no is because our people is supposed to be the people of god and um yeah we can interact with people but i’m thinking of this verse came to mind first corinthians 15 33
Be not deceived evil communications corrupt good manners i think there were communications in the king james version means like company or something company yeah and um i mean we’re already technology is finding out stuff that god already knows but god knows that people community help shapes us helps cultivate our character
If i’m hanging out and i’m listening to a bunch of rap music and i’m watching a bunch of stuff on tv that goes is anti-christ it’s i’m going to be shaped by that whether i want to or not it’s just reality of it this way
Our minds work and i’m sure we could all attest to that um so if i’m around people that’s in my social group and they’re sharing ideas and things like that that’s that’s shaping my life as well that’s why it’s important and you know we stress throughout the
Scripture we need to be around the people of god okay keith can i finish my turn so yeah so uh it’s basically we know that we have to be a part of each other a community that we can shape and uh sharpen one another because that helps our minds grow in our character
Grow if we’re around people that aren’t christ-like it’s gonna rub off on you i mean you or you you’ll be probably vexed in the spirit of trying to war against all this stuff because you constantly have to you know fight and all this stuff and cast down imaginations and all sorts of
Stuff and why but why why be why play with snakes at that point so i i think ultimately gotta heard you from it i mean it’s just it’s just sound to be around your the people that are on the same wavelength as you and the world knows this as well cause
They say the same thing about billionaires all right that’s all i had to say all right thank you for that keith angie uh you up and then we’re gonna go ahead and move on to the next question um so yes about being a social group no it’s not because
If it is a social group like i think one of the ladies had said like you wouldn’t be kneeling you wouldn’t be pledging you wouldn’t be you wouldn’t even have prayer because and that’s one of the questions i asked some some of these members are do you
Think it’s social or do you think it’s spiritual because a lot of times especially in in some of these churches with leaders that are in these organizations you know they they’re quick to say and i know for sure and i’m calling on my old organization delta sigma theta will say in their visual
Book that they are founded on christian principles and they utilize that and some of these other organizations will say that too that they’re founded on christian principles and so i always ask people do you think this is social group or do you think this is a spiritual because if this is if
If you think it’s a social group then why do you have a chaplain if you think this is a social group why are you praying kneeling why is there a false god why all the spiritual stuff in this um and there are some i’m sorry somebody said something i don’t know
What they said but um so and then not only that the rituals don’t stop i mean not i mean we’re talking about i understand we want to talk about the gospel and everything but you got to talk about history you got to talk about you got you really
Have to pull these rituals out and for people that haven’t seen them it like and then now that we’re saved and stuff like it is it is crazy like when i went back and read and i said oh did i say this oh did i do this oh in our meetings
There is a table of candles lit in this like it is it is it’s really like a i don’t know how to explain it but it is really deep and dark when you really read everything and how there’s some script there’s some scripture in there don’t get me wrong
But then it’s also some twisted scripture in there and so i go back to also like there are rituals for your ma when you’re for your wedding there’s songs and chants for your wedding because let’s go back weddings are spiritual they’re supposed to be spiritual uh ritual you know with god and the
Person that you’re marrying okay let’s go to death there are oh there are rituals that are done when you die i think they made it public with aretha franklin’s uh ritual for delta ii there are things that are said when you die there are poems in in the books and like
I said all of them have like some type of uh a ritual for for weddings and for it for deaths so it’s hard to really go deep into this if we’re not going to touch on the rituals because and i like to share that with people because then you really get
To see the truth because it is it would be no justification and i understand that we’re we’re so we are to pray to god and everything but if if someone was to ask me okay can i let can i can i can i live with this man who’s not my husband wait
Wait let me pray to god if i could do it but why why go back to your father to go back to god when he already told you no or well you know why you we know in his word and so that’s what i’m saying like
You have to pull these rituals out to compare and show god is saying no and so even though i understand some people are saying they have peace or they’re praying and things like that but it may it’s very clear when you re read these rituals and you
Go back to the to the word of god and maybe some people are tugging and pulling and i understand because i tugged and pulled a little bit but i was in the church where it was so many greeks that were involved and i thought it was okay and a lot of times people
Will say well i’m gonna stay in this org i’m just not gonna do this this in the third but in order to share the gospel truthfully in order for us to really be an example we shouldn’t be in a covenant that speaks out that speaks against what the bible says
I know i know we’re all not perfect we all are saying no no not righteous no not one but i don’t think people understand how deep you are in a marriage to these organizations and i i and i know like if you can’t give that up and just say well i’m because
If you can’t give that up and say i’ma just do this part of it there’s still something in your heart that longs for it there’s still something in your heart that wants to bark that wants to have the q dog sign that wants to throw up the z5b that
Wants whatever you whatever org you’re a part of if you if you if there’s something that’s keeping you in there and you may just once a year just um you know do the whole uh what do you call it founder’s name there’s something in your heart that is still longing for
This brotherhood sisterhood so i i just wanted to share that thank you for that angie uh anybody else before we move on to the third question all right uh james go ahead and i’ll put up question number three come on dre money what’s up all right
There we go is this a heaven or hell issue please explain why oh this is what’s going to hit pretty hard for all of us because we have to also look at the organizations that we do join regardless i mean even if it’s toastmasters right like it doesn’t matter like
Whatever organization you’re in you have to be aware awareness is key for um you know i mean that’s that’s what that’s why we’ve been given a new set of eyes and you know in christ we have a uh uh we we live in the eyes of faith so we look behind
We we’re not fooled by the initial you know uh things people say we’re not a fool we’re not we’re not easily led astray anymore because we have a spirit of discernment we’re not either led astray by what people say on the surface just because someone says as a christian we’re not
Just gonna say hooray hooray i mean we we we we’re here to see fruit we’re here to bear fruit and seafood so is this a heaven or hell issue this is gonna have um this is hard okay this is not easy i’m not trying to put this this question
This was this was something that we have to really evaluate i mean when it comes down to it if we’re choosing like angie’s saying that the claims she’s saying are true um that those that those are that are that are going into these organizations are faced with these opportunities that require
Their soul tie to this to this uh actual organization then what we have to ask is is how healthy is our soul in this situation um if if you’re in an organization regardless and you’re aware of what’s going on and you and you devote everything to it
And you want to do a good job you don’t want to be half in a half out i mean if if you’re committed you’re committed right so uh if you are committed you know is this going to affect your eternity um you know so that’s just my thoughts before the floodgates open yeah
Thank you jane so we’re going to go ahead and let uh uh coaster go and then we’re gonna have uh martin i’m sorry a culture and then uh keith martin kia i forgot to put my hand down i’m sorry or maybe maybe i did i’m just yeah all right fine yeah
Clothes are you there yeah hey so yeah so it explicitly says to um do not have fellowship with darkness right and it also it also says that we are in comparison to any sort of relationship we’re supposed to hate our brother our mother or sister
You know on and so forth compared to how much we love god and those are actually that the context is actually of our our you know our um our kin and i just think it you know it’s something that should be revisited in regards to how we um how we where we
Get our council from because these brothers and sisters you know in these fraternities this is a uh i’m gonna go really dark here uh this is an organized uh you know underground ring of satan this is the occult this is how it manifests in the education system we’re seeing the
Fruition and the fruit just about ready to fall off the tree at this point in time so we’re seeing what the sowing into this we’re seeing the cause and effect we’re seeing the binding on earth as it is in heaven and loosing on earth as it is in heaven we
Are seeing the outcome on on what on allowing this sort of thing into our societies what it brings about it brings about the materialism the high flu falutineness the things contrary to god and it doesn’t have to be you know um super you know dark and sinister and
Terrible it just has to take your time make you deaf dumb and and uh ineffective and you know and these um these sort of things are an all-consuming fire and in a lot of people’s lives not everybody not you know some people are just straight up called by god like carlissa she’s
Obviously a mighty woman of god and she doesn’t stand for what the devil has come at her with this stuff and so she’s she’s someone who’s uh standing in a dark place shining a bright light but this devours a lot of people i have i have a lot of people that are all
About this this is who they identify with um if they were to be renounced or denounced from this sort of thing it would crush their life because it’s who they serve and they um unbeknownst to them they serve under a false god thank you for that culture uh um
Let me see uh martin yeah i will first say that yes it is a salvation issue from this standpoint the bible says for once if we are in christ we are delivered from the dominion of satan and we are no longer a part of the kingdom of satan so let’s
Say someone takes a binding obligation and it is to a god who is not the true god they have devoted themselves to become servants of satan in a very more direct way than just being an unbeliever in a more serious way right however in christ we are delivered so
That whether there are any curses where there are any form of one saying that oh i belong to satan versus not even whether you know it or not it is done for us in christ that we are delivered and as a result of that the bible will
Call us to pick up our cross and follow him and be willing to denounce anything that is not of god as long as we are broadening the knowledge of that reality we have to denounce it so the question where it becomes a death for heaven and hell issue is
This so you have you you confess christ and that’s where you affirm however in your course of serving christ you didn’t know some things so you were doing it ignorantly but god’s word now comes to you and he tells you that this is what you are to
Do don’t have any uh fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness you are now of god and you are the temple of god and therefore you are to have no relationship with demons right and truths like what others are sharing here showing us the dimensions in which
Occultism is concerned with and it is clearly step before you and you can even consider the very fools that were taken and the things that were said compared to the scripture and you can clearly say in your mind and art i cannot think of this as a christian thing and because of
That i have to espouse this thing as evil or to affirm that i cannot be a part of this organization because the means by which i say i am a part of it that thing itself is defiled right so let’s say now you have come to this understanding and yet you say to
Yourself well i’m in it though and i don’t want to be up i don’t want to come out at that point it become a salvation issue because that says you are now willing to take up your cross and follow jesus that says you are now willing to
Cut off that right hand that says you are rather willing to exalt your own self above jesus and so i think the area where we are brought into knowledge as long as we are brought into knowledge and conviction that this is against god the very fact that some of you are
Saying well we took it but now when i go back and i read it i’m like man how did i do this that should tell you that you cannot in good conscience now as a christian belong to it and have you even told the members of the group hey
Whatever i say i don’t believe it do they even know it right if you cannot be saved that that tells you you have made an obligation to be a part of it and when you think about the hebrew boys one could have said they could have just
Bowed down but in their hearts they were like hey guess what we are not bowing down to that idol that would still be considered bowing down right so i think once we are enlightened about what is being done as christian we are called to have no fellowship with
It and if we can look at it and say it is against god to be connected and to be seen by others as those who are in fellowship and affirming these things if we are not able to say no i don’t want to be a part of it and let that be even
A part of our testimony that we no longer seen ourselves as a part of these things then at that point it becomes a salvation issue and jesus said if you don’t take up your cross and follow me you will also be denied on the day when
He comes he will say i don’t know so i guess that’s the point that it becomes this obviously thank you for that martin uh uh kia uh that’s him right yes yeah you are saying it right thank you for uh asking so if i may to answer this question i’m
Going to come from first corinthians chapter 6 9-10 and the english standard version reads or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of god do not be deceived neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who practice homosexuality nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards
Nor revilers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of god in order to first of all i do believe this is a heaven or hell issue i read this scripture because in in order to truly be on a level uh playing field when you’re dialoguing with someone who thinks that is not the
Case you have to highlight circle and underline the word idolaters many people who are still in their respective greek letter organizations do not see that this is idolatry they do not accept that this is idolatry and that is where a lot of the challenge come from when we try to communicate
With one another we see it as adultery those idolatry those of us who have denounced those of us who have dared ourselves to turn down our plates and fast for a number of days to hear from heaven without the distraction of another human being to get a word from
The most high without distraction and when we do get that word we get a great deal of revelation as to why these organizations are uh considered idolatrous and that is the primary reason many of us do denounce and renounce it is because you are pledging yourself in secret
Uh if you ask any member to read their oaths aloud they cannot um you know and i and i won’t go all the way into it but once we once we establish that this is idolatrous that is where we can agree that this is a heaven or hell issue because everyone
Doesn’t um believe that it is idolatrous so they say well no it’s not really a heaven hell issue actually it’s not a big deal and it is it’s a matter of of your salvation according to first corinthians chapter 6 verses 9 through 10. that is all
All right thank you for that uh james can you uh do me a favor uh this is uh go to uh go to team we can come back to five i forgot to tell y’all we kind of knew that we was going to go past but uh um
Carlissa had asked a question in the chat which was uh uh kind of similar to um what she was saying so this is a dialogue night we just don’t want to make it seem like it’s beating up on one side or whatever so uh jesus stated that all that the
Father has given him he will not lose and that all power and authority has been given to him how can being in these organizations disqualified christians that have genuine faith in christ alone i thank for that carly so i’m just gonna throw that question out um so anybody want to answer that question
Um i can uh talk a little bit about it um so it’s very important let me just make sure i have some etiquette here um Mentioned first corinthians 9. well yeah and she also asked a question uh going back to the chat scrolling up and i just cause typically yeah hey guys we typically don’t post the questions like this we usually just throw it in check because depending on the flow of the
Conversation i i typically go at it but we’re doing something different so uh pretty much uh the the question is this right um a christian that’s in these organizations right that have genuine faith how can um the organization disqualify them if you know well scripture say that christ
Won’t lose any and that he have all power and authority uh clarissa is that pretty much what you was trying to get at i mean yes sir i mean that you know like i said if you’ve accepted jesus christ as your personal lord and savior you know
Then you are a sinner safe by his grace you know but there’s also this thing anything that’s not like him it doesn’t go in and i believe i heard the gentleman say you ain’t got to cough a hand this that or the other but there and and i and i and i hear
What the young ladies and the and the the gentlemen are are saying and i get and i’m sitting here and i’m praying and i’m not a lot of y’all i text one of my pastors okay and so i know that he he’s on listening right now and i’m sitting here and i’m
Going through scripture and i’m reading as well and and i guess one of this is very thought-provoking and you’re right this is one of the reasons why i did sign on because i i do want to hear i do want to hear the other perspectives but it does go back to this
Your relationship with christ jesus your heart condition your mindset because i think any people grew in any capacity um i i i think that your light or your shadow your relationship with christ should get to the point that you’re so powerful that when you walk through the city past
The gate called beautiful that your shadow can heal somebody so it’s fine to talk about what somebody else is doing wrong and everything that they’re doing wrong but what are you doing so right that your light is shining so bright to draw others closer to christ because that is part of the gospel
How are you drawing others to christ we can point fingers all day and talk about what somebody’s doing wrong but it was the love of jesus christ it is the love of jesus christ that pursues us to righteousness and repentance for all it is not the finger pointing it is not the
The brow beating or telling you what’s wrong or pointing everybody else is wrong but it it’s it it’s that that relationship and that conviction and that that mandate or that charge or or that giftedness and whatever it is god called you to do so you know where’s the light
And direction in this conversation besides oh that’s all wrong you know because well yeah i definitely commend you for that question because it oftentimes our own convictions sometimes they can and this is goals for everyone um myself included all some of our convictions can seem louder than others and so
Sometimes when someone’s convicted about something and they they they shadow on the rooftop you know there’s a person um that has their own convictions that may um not be convinced you know about a person’s convictions they may but like you said and that’s why we talked about testimonies and our
Presentation testimonies don’t save testimonies can amplify testimonies can can give you a different lens but ultimately testimonies don’t save others the gospel saves others and so our reflection on what god has said even that doesn’t save others our reflection it should be more in a meditation sense
And more so than just what we what we what we feel we have to say about it now ultimately the the danger here though there is a danger that must be presented the danger of a person after all has been said and talked about tonight
One of the dangers of a person being an organization is them claiming their allegiance to christ but the issue comes down to is they’re claiming their allegiance to christ and still living on their own terms so in other words their salvation and their mind is guaranteed however
The way of life in that salvation is flexible for them you know and that’s that’s when we are to be held at the stake uh for with our with our christian brothers and sisters we actually have to have a little bit more of an authoritative um um expression of love because it’s
It’s literally hey be careful out here you know like in a person that doesn’t see fire in their house they’re not gonna act like fires in their house you know if they see a little flame and they can just you know hit with some water that’s that’s how they’re going to respond
But the point is if a person is in one of these organizations or a person is is not fully convinced that their position is you know in jeopardy or in a sense of uh there’s there’s danger there if they don’t sense the danger the best thing for us to do is to acknowledge
That okay you can claim to know christ you can claim to have a relationship with him but our relationship is still curated it’s still commanded by christ himself and those commandments are for all believers and they’re in scripture not for you and your sake but they’re for for the whole church so
There is a little bit of give and there’s a little bit of pull here but i i just want to commend us to realize that we can’t live in christ and on our own terms we can’t say that we have a relationship with god that’s so personal that the
Scriptures that others follow we’ll we’ll we’ll see that in a little minute you know we’ll we’ll save that for later you know that that’s that’s the danger of living as a believer in a place where you’re not fully convinced you know when others come to you with with uh warning with love and
Instruction with love and training with love and and just questions it should it should open up a a place of at least curiosity to be drawn because otherwise it turns into selfishness it turns into pride and the lord says much about our company and the company we keep because of the
Company we keep uh doesn’t warn us and never we’re never if we’re never troubled with certain company that’s the company we need to question because typically the company that that surrounds us makes us feel good about ourselves is a company that will deny the father in a heartbeat so our our convictions again
My whole point is is to bring this to the table our convictions aren’t all the same or uh but in our relationship that’s been well eloquently put our relationship with christ isn’t all in the same place however uh we need to uh empower our our our our our minds
Not with those that we want to always agree with but those that will challenge us to read god’s word any challenge to read god’s word is a good challenge so um i just want to put that out there now obviously this particular text jesus stated that all the fathers giving them
He will not lose he won’t lose because he has them on his own terms he doesn’t have little people that make their own decisions and check in with god once they go to sleep when god has a person he won’t lose it’s not because Fighting to defend the bible you
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