The special bond relationship and friendship between Christians and Jews we’re talking about that with David nman today stay with us on personally Speaking Hello and welcome to personally speaking I’m your host monor ganti and David mcran joins me now David has served the calling of Jewish Christian relations for over 20 years and is the executive director of the Isaiah projects the Isaiah projects is a Ministry dedicated to creating resources that EMP power
Christians to discover the hebraic roots of their faith David has a masters in social work from the University of Pennsylvania and a masters in biblical literature from Oral Roberts University his Oral Roberts degree established David as one of the very few Orthodox Jewish persons to graduate from a Christian University’s theology program
David’s oped articles have appeared in the Jerusalem Post The Times of Israel and Charisma magazine David received special recognition from Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs Department of world religions for his two decades of service as a Goodwill Ambassador for Jewish Christian relations he was recently selected for the chosen Jewish
Advisory Board counseling the dramatic series staff for season 4 and perhaps Beyond David lives in Israel with his wife and their three sons he’s here with us today to talk about the Isaiah projects the Jewish Christian relations and the faith and values that sustain him David thanks so much for coming on
Personally speaking David before we get into many any wonderful things that you’re doing like the Isaiah projects and other things I wanted to ask you I’m always intrigued when someone loves God and loves Humanity as you clearly do I often wonder about the family that
Formed you so let’s go back to family of origin tell me about the people you come from the parents who raised you and what they did right uh so for the first eight years of my life as a fourth generation New Yorker okay um I was a a secular Jew
Went to synagogue once a year during the high holidays and uh in 1979 my father’s colleague at work I heard my father complaining that I was getting beaten up in first grade and figured this was an opportunity to help my father become more observant in his Judaism so he came up with this
Brilliant plan take me off from public school and put me into the most Ultra religious Jewish parochial school possible and and so in 1980 I went from crisy bacon and Night Rider and Dukes of Hazard on Friday night till all of a sudden uh becoming an an observant
Orthodox Jewish household and it took about two years so the person who did that accomplished his mission to make my family more religious and uh at that age I became sort of the rabbi of the family because my parents were not well versed in the aspects of the laws of Judaism so
Everything I learn from my school I brought into the household uh that basically made me uh um the beginnings of a leader uh so that’s that’s my background in New York and I I live next to the most Italian neighborhood possible called bensen Hurst right sure so all I knew of Christianity was
Through the Catholic church I didn’t know there was like 40,000 different movements in Christianity but we won’t talk about that because I want to respect M seniors and the Catholic church right now well we we love our Christian Brothers and Jewish brothers and Arab Brothers
But let me ask you this when you made that transition did you make that willingly well no we at eight years old you you’re you’re going along with what your parents want really at the end of the day and um I would say someone who was our common friend uh Rabbi Dr Jo
Meister of blessed memory he was really the one in in during my college Years that mentor me not only in Jewish Christian relation my own walk with God in in actualizing the that expression of Faith through Orthodox Judaism and then when I’m when I’m uh it’s about 23 years uh
In Building Bridges between Jews and Christians uh I I eventually found how I I walk between the lines in order to still have the Integrity of Judaism but also incorporate the idea that uh Jews and Christians believe in the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob we have a common
Scripture that is the Divine word of God we want to actualize bringing the Kingdom of Heaven down to earth and we’re all waiting for the Messianic moment together and indeed there are differences between Judaism and Christianity but what is in common far ways what divides us uh and therefore I
I can’t be who I am as a Jew stewarding the land of Israel Without You Manor thank you there’s a covenantal bond between us and although there was a bad history between Judaism and Christianity right now what I’ve experienced in my own lifetime I was born after
Nohate and so the development of what has happened specifically between Jews and Catholics has been unbelievable and the theological turnaround of the Catholic Church towards the Jews as one time uh enemies has become that the Catholic church is saying I’m Joseph your your brother brother that’s been a Monumental transformation theologically
There’s always going to be things that we need to talk about but all in all if a Jewish Community is next to a Catholic Community chances are the relationships that have been developed locally have been incredible and uh although there will be statements that we always have to take in consideration the sensitivities
Between Jews and Catholics for well over a half a century that began with Pope John the 23rd and Rabbi hesel have really reaped the fruits of what we’re what I’m doing here with you today I don’t think I could be on the zoom call without the
Divine agents over 55 56 years ago so much Dave necr is our guest so much of uh the bondedness between us does trace back to the uh Legacy and the papacy of John Paul II what was your experience of him David I uh again I was at the Israeli
Consulate when uh in New York when I I I guess you could say that there was a Divine interruption in my life and I entered into the portfolio of building up relationships with Christians and a also a good friend of ours on senior guy Massie yes uh is a good friend if you
Want to talk to somebody about who helped me within the Catholic Church man senior guy Massie was also a mentor of mine besides Rob by Dr generald me but it’s good to have a Catholic right help you go along and learn everything uh so
For me uh just to see the how Pope John II specifically had this admiration and respect for Judaism I mean without him going into the synagogue and making his Monumental visit representing the Catholic Church visiting the state of Israel literally it was the second most secure event in the history of Israel
The only one that as far as security and respect was concerned before the pope came to Israel was former president Anan Sadat who wanted to make peace with Israel in the late 1970s and he his Monumental visit to the knesset but everybody even though I know the pope
Was trying to keep his prayer secret when he inserted into the Western Wall nothing is a secret when it comes to Israel and and that what his prayer meant to everybody in Israel and the Jewish people worldwide yeah he was remarkable and of course for our listeners and Watchers his experience of
Having lived through the Holocaust and seeing the destruction of the Jewish people of Poland in particular was certainly an eye opener and a conscience opener for him David out of this work that you’ve been doing comes the Isaiah projects tell us a little bit about the background and what’s the hope of achievement
There so the Isaiah projects was born of a third chapter of another Divine interruption in my life so the first chapter was the Israeli council in New York where I was given the Christian portfolio was very ignorant about Christianity this about 23 years ago and started to learn theology one-onone in
Coffee and diners with my mentor and obviously that includes man Senor guys Massie as well and understanding the complexities and the sensitivities followed by making Aliah making my move with my family I wanted to be a chapter heading in sacred Jewish history as opposed to a footnote and if if you live
As a Jew outside of Israel You’re a footnote in Jewish history I want to be a chapter heading I want to be equal with the sanitation worker that we are fulfilling the ever ever fulfillment of biblical prophecies mentioned in Isaiah and Ezekiel and Zechariah that the in
Gathering of the Jewish people from the four corners of the world is happening every single day I am no different than the sanitation person the only difference I have is my calling specifically is the reconciliation between Jews and Christians now when I came I didn’t think think I was going to
Go back into Jewish Christian relations but God has a funny sense of humor and Rabbi schl Riskin who is who was the chief Rabbi of e frat which is parallel to Bethlehem found out about my experience and we opened up the first Orthodox Jewish Center called The oror Stone Center for Jewish Christian
Understanding cooperation I served in the executive director position for 14 years I stepped down from that because uh Christian grandmothers were asking me to help them out with their grandchildren uh because of the progressive um uh values being introduced into the public school system unfortunately and some of
The ideologies that are against our common judeo Christian values they said because you are teaching to Ley uh the hebraic roots of the Christian faith would you be willing to help us in The Homeschool area uh so the Isaiah projects primarily is focused on grining hebraic resources for Christians to
Discover the roots of their faith with a specific calling to homeschool Christian education now mind you I didn’t go to a a Catholic Seminary but I did go to an Evangelical uh theological school called all Roberts University I got my masters in biblical literature I’m also the
Advisor to to The Chosen TV series so apparently my experience in the halls of Christianity uh is adding to the hebraic roots of the Christian faith and uh so right now we have something called biblical excavations and we launched our first curriculum uh on the Sabbath because in
The last I should say second to the last verse in Isaiah it says from New Moon to New Moon from Sabbath to Sabbath all worship me says the Eternal and uh how do we get to that prophecy now in that same chapter it says can a nation be
Born in a day so I I I’m part of that nation that was born in the day and at the end of this chapter there’s supposed to be this Messianic Sabbath and therefore I think Sabbath as well intentioned as it was to acknowledge God the Creator and God the Redeemer of what
He did to the Jewish people and taking them out from Egypt into the promised land there is an ultimate Redemptive Sabbath and Isaiah envisions and therefore we want to talk about that Sabbath But first you have to excavate revelational nuggets of what took place before sin and what are we looking for
In a Sabbath that means that you’re at my table man Senor and that we’re celebrating together I’m not asking Christians to eat cila fish uh on the Sabbath not asking Christians to not turn on a light on the Sabbath but there is something about acknowledging the Redemptive Sabbath uh Messianic period
That we in whatever your eschatology may be but at the end the here and now means that Sabbath is about contemplating on the kingdom of God and what are we planning to do together as Jews and Christians for the week coming that we can say we’re moving Kingdom a little
Forward so that that the curriculum is based upon the Sabbath working on an elementary school uh to call the children of Abraham for a curriculum like that so it’s just developing hebraic resources and all of a sudden October 7th came and I had to stop what
I was doing in Israel and and for two months every single day taking something that’s small impacting that immediate need saying thank you and then moving on to the next thing so Mona we’re both we’re both originally we’re from New York and you know eventually I became a
Guy who knows a guy who’s able to get something from a guy in order to go ahead and help our First Responders to help out um uh families we saved families uh from the border of Gaza we raised money to put them in hotels uh these are people that would not get a
Government subsidy so it’s been very interesting for the last two months of dancing around around missiles uh meeting uh families who have their loved ones still in Gaza as hostages uh but the work I was doing could have not been done without the network of true friends
Of Israel who are Christian and this is and we actually worked with Christians in Israel together we were the only organization to do co-sponsorships and co-p Partnerships to help on the ground uh My Hope Is that I can get back to the curriculum because we want to work on
The Parables of Jesus in its hebraic context I always say that uh you know having if G Christians believe that Jesus is 100% 100% Divine 100% human uh his Humanity took place in the Jewish household and that means he learned the Jewish way he taught the Jewish way and
If that can be discovered and recovered within Christianity in its understanding of its own Scriptures it adds a high definition to a Christian’s walk with God I know this is weird for the Orthodox Jew to talk about this but I want Christians to be Christ centered I
Want them if they are that means the Judaism of Jesus is is equally important in a Christian walks life with God and therefore uh truly you will be the in what we would call Joseph in the context of working with the Federation of the tribes of Israel that have been gathered
From all over the world so I want Christians to be Christ sented and I think it’s important that Jews understand that that we shouldn’t ask of our Christian uh Christians brothers and sisters to compromise Jesus in any way I I want you to be who you are uh there
For the one God there is respect and integrity in the diversity of an expression and faith in him David I want to ask you because you brought up uh the horrors of October um at the heart of our understanding of Christ always comes back to his incredible willingness even
Unto death to forgive those who persecuted or killed him um it’s it’s heart and parcel of our faith to believe that you have to be a forgiver um October 7th and even more importantly before that the Holocaust as an Orthodox Jewish man how easily or how difficult
Is it for you to embrace that concept that that God is a merciful god and that we are called on to be instruments of Mercy when we seem to be standing occasionally against Invincible evil so as we know we know the end of the story yeah I think that’s important
We start from the end and we know what’s going to happen and God’s name will be one upon the Earth and all will worship before him so that gives us something uh incredible in our faith walk with god of hope we have then we also have to take
The practicality of every day not everyone is acknowledging the god of Abraham Isaac and jaob and Kamas is one of them not only that they are taking away the image of God from others and therefore they’re creating evil in the world they are a terrorist organization they are abusing using their own people
Uh let alone doing the murderous horrendous acts that happened on October 7th I have friends who’ve been been affected obviously through this may friends through the last two months and hearing the stories so when you’re hearing about this first and foremost uh the government has to make sure that
Kamas is not around anymore as much as that we take the day by day and unfortunately there are innocent people in Gaza that are affected by the actions of the Israel Defense Forces but at the end of the day please don’t blame us blame the people who are governing you
Who put you into this situation don’t blame the victim blame the per people who are the perpetrators David you talked about education how important it is one of the things I noticed through all the coverage of October 7th was the uh presumption that we understand things about each other that we don’t
Necessarily I whenever I read an article about the church I always find at least one or two things that the reporter didn’t get about what we believe where we’re coming from in the same way um the presumption was automatically that everyone knew what a kabut was and most
People I think in fact don’t have a clear understanding can you give us a small definition of what is a kabut these attacks that were on kabut is what was going on in those is before the attack so very short kots is an agreed upon community that they’re sharing in
All the resources and the and the benefits of those resources in a cubots okay um and and again you can do that for small communities it’s not very conducive for Statehood so I want to make that very clear it’s it’s good if you have a community willing to share in
Those resources for a small amount of people but in governance of a greater Society you can’t use what would be a socialist model for for running and governing a country you do need what we would say the best form of government in a capitalist Society allowing people to go
Ahead and see that Beyond socialism because we we that’s a different talk but that’s basically what a kibuts is so these communities that had over either 1,00 people or less were and very much Pro Palestinian in a sense looking for a two-state solution these people were fighting for the rights of the people
Living on the other side of the Border uh in and in fact the hospital um Bari Medical Center which I helped during the war still helping uh they’re the ones who treat gazin if they do need Emergency Care uh in fact sinir who the architect of October 7th was treated in
Israel uh he was one of the prisoners that was released for gilat Shalit for a soldier uh and spoke fluent Hebrew and instead of learning I don’t know instead of really following God at the end of the day decided follow the devil and Satan and AR and become the architect of
The worst episode since since the Holocaust on one day of the amount of Jews murdered and brutally murdered um so when you have so that’s the Community these are the communities living on the Gaza border these are communities some of them predate statehood at or some at the beginnings of statehood uh
And tragically uh everyone is in in uh some type of traumatic uh season right now and need tremendous care and intervention and particularly customized intervention therapy sessions I want to ask our listeners and our viewers to go online and and look up the good work that David NR has been
Doing for a long time especially the Isaiah projects but my final question David is that um Peggy Nunan talks about this beautifully in the Wall Street Journal but um are you at all shocked or bothered or troubled I imagine you are I am uh by the The Rage of anti-Semitism
That has shocked a lot of us in this country by the demonstrations um we would have thought that if there was a community that was safe and respected it would be the Jewish community in our country it’s not and there are people who uh clearly still Harbor hatred in their hearts
Uh seeing that as you do as I do um the greatest illness in the world I think is not physical it’s discouragement you know that we give up hope you are obviously a man filled with hope but I wonder do you get discouraged by the fact that here we are in
2023 where people still demonstrate in the streets of major cities in a way that is there’s no way to describe it except anti-semitic uh where do you find Hope how do you avoid discouragement when you see some of what’s going on in our culture so I I look at it again I go
Back to the Bible Bible has already written something like like this style and it’s called The Book of Esther which takes place outside of Israel between first and second temple period we have someone who Harbors such anti-Semitism towards morai he’s willing to kill the entire nation of Israel in one day gets
Permission from the King to do that and because of God uh intervenes in sacred history through the Agents of human beings including Jews and non-jews if you look at the end of chapter 8 you see all of a sudden non-jews accepting the remarkable God of Isaac into their lives
And willing to stand uh toe-to-toe with the Jewish people in fighting a war it was a military victory at the end of the day but it wasn’t a Jewish VIP Club it happened with non-jews right uh and therefore Esther marks a holiday on the Jewish calendar that goes beyond
Leviticus chapter 23 about listing all the holidays of rashash Shana day of atonement the Feast of Tabernacles she P creates the precedent of a holiday on the Jewish calendar but it’s all because of anti-Semitism there’s a book on anti-em it’s called Esther and what’s quite fascinating is that Esther was never
Supposed to be in the Canon of Christian scriptures if you want to call a holy fa moment that’s it that Esther ends up into the Canon of scriptures and in fact many people when they’re supporting Israel quote Esther 4:14 is a Time such as this as part of their foundational
Faith expression of support with the Jewish people so for me there’s a book on this so right now we’re living in a hmon like season where the veil has been taken off of subconscious anti-Semitism to outright calling for the death of the Jews am I shocked yes I’m shocked in the
Sense that we went from from being pro Palestinian to being pramas I think that for Jews worldwide was the shock of the moment like how did we get to that’s okay to call the death of the Jews in a Public Square the only other time we had
That was in the Holocaust and I thought somehow that got you know somehow removed from society because of what look what happened afterwards what starts with the Jews doesn’t end with the Jews I make that very clear so what you’re seeing right now is more than anti-Semitism you’re seeing being
Anti-god and it’s just the way it’s expressed to be an anti-god is in the form of anti-Semitism because at the end uh people are not are saying that we don’t deserve this land well the only reason why we have this land from my personal opinion is the Cal bond with
The Jewish people what God said he meant it’s eternally there whether despite we’re worthy or not it’s a covenant that’s the concept of Covenant not a contract God said that that yes if we don’t fulfill our our covenantal bond the land throws us out and we were
Taught that lesson twice that was the first temple and the second temple right now we have this amazing opportunity to be a steward of the land Covenant land comes with Covenant responsibility but people people have a problem with Covenant and with what God says about the Jewish people so what you’re seeing
Right now is an anti-god moment and secular demonic uh things that are happening right now in the view of all this is all is all is all anti-god at the end from my perspective it’s actualized and expressed through anti-Semitism so I would say for the church Please be aware
Because these secular this type of this type of Paradigm of thinking will eventually affect the church oh absolutely absolutely David I want to thank you for being with us David nman is a great guy who’s been doing wonderful work for years uh but I I
Wanted the folks not only to hear him on SiriusXM the Catholic Channel but also to see him on YouTube because you’d have to be moved by his incredible energy and enthusiasm not only for his belief system but for taking belief and putting it into practice uh I was one of the
Many many things that Isaiah project has uh accomplished is that David and those he works with have been feeding sometimes the Arab Christians of Bethlehem uh because he is truly a a bridge between Christians and Jews but also a willingness to serve all mankind
In the name of God and Dave when I see your energy Your Enthusiasm your dynamism on this particular work it gives me great great hope and I I hope you continue to have that Zeal because our world needs it you are truly a bridge for Hope and uh away from
Discouragement and truly I think an instrument of God I thank you so much I thank my good friend Gary krup and the pave the way foundation for first introducing us and David much much success with the good work you’re doing the work of God the work of humanity and
Uh we truly appreciate all you do well you made my morning Manor I get a blessing from Manor this morning so thank you and when you’re next talking to guy mhy give my love I went to Seminary with him he was a great man then it’s wonderful to hear that man
Sior Massie continues to do wonderful work I’m glad he’s a friend of yours David God bless David Recruitment and all the work that you do I want to thank you for being with us on personally speaking if you need to reach me for any reason you can write me
At personally speaking podcast gmail.com you probably listen to this program on the Catholic channel channel 129 I’m privileged to serve as host and executive producer personally speaking our producer is Lisa janitz thanks so much for joining us we’ll be with you again next time on personally speaking
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