All right welcome welcome everybody Welcome to the unfazed unedited podcast where we provide commentary on complicated topics in an uncomplicated format I’m Dr Shauna Payne gold and I go by she her hers pronouns and y’all know who I’m here with Dr Lisa my other half of my brain that we finish each other’s
Sentences and send each other the same memes and don’t even realize it person this is my person um how you how are you doing and uh how’s the week going so far I am doing great uh pronounce she her um it’s Wednesday and it is almost the middle of January
So time is flying it didn’t apparently decide to take a vacation um as we moved into 2024 but uh yeah doing good looking forward to today’s discussion we’ve already had our little pre-chat about what we’re going to talk about so hopefully we will uh get those uh synapses fly firing again
Um and give you some fod to chew on for the rest of the week yeah yeah well you know Lisa I think you know our first phase is a really important one because I think oftentimes even for those of us who are supportive when there is some type of violence against the black
Community black male community in particular when uh law enforcement is involved there’s a lot of hype when the videos or the evidence of the situation occur and then it’s kind of like oh okay we can forget about it because out of sight out of mind type of situation
There um and so my hope for this first phase is for us to continue that through line of what’s going on in regards to the response uh from Tyree Nichols murder it’s been a year now uh since the Scorpion special unit um down in Memphis all five indicted one played guilty the
Other four pled not guilty um and we know that we’re going to be following trials later on this year but I think what was really interesting when I opened up my social media CNN uh chopped up a kind of a press release if you will of the new doj guidance for specialized police
Teams and look y’all y’all don’t have time to read it unless you happen to be someone who is in criminal justice in any of this uh policing work you may want to take a look at this but for the rest of us that are relatively novice and civilian uh to specialized units
This is a 72 page document uh that comes as a result of this trying to give some guidance for specialized police teams and I do think this document is important uh they touch on several main stages that folks need to look at in regards to guiding cities as far as how
They actually utilize and deploy the special units um so we can do a little more of a deep dive into this Lisa but what’s really concerning to me is that I’ve been in those situations before where I was in the car driving past someone who was pulled over who happened
To have a lot of melanin probably was a male um and I’m thinking to myself if this is like three police cars deployed for a busted tail light I got a major problem with this right and so I’m thinking about that to the nth degree with something like this where it’s one
Person and you have an entire special unit with very special and important skills deployed on one human being and so I appreciate the guidance that they’re giving but it almost feels like a we’re we’re stepping over something here of is that really necessary for one or two people that don’t have
Specialized skills um and deploying an entire unit so yeah I I’m kind of torn on this more guidance may be an effort in missing the point but I’m not sure yet I need to dive into the document a bit more but what do you think initially
Lisa yeah I mean I think the guidance is trying to support law enforcement agencies that are considering getting a special unit of whatever kind and or have one and they’re reviewing it right so they’re trying to give them food for thought around what do you need to
Consider what are the changes you might need to make but that is separate and apart from how you dispatch the unit right which is what I think you’re talking about so you know as a law enforcement agency you need to ask yourself the question do we even need this like what
Purpose does this serve in what ways are we kind of reinforcing problematic stereotypes about groups of people or parts of the city or this belief that there needs to be this kind of different response for particular situations um and so I would think that in some cases or in many cases the
Answer should actually be no right so then you don’t even then you don’t even have a special unit to deploy in the situation like with um Tyree Nichols right um but if you do have said unit right and you’re not getting rid of it then your question I think looms much
Larger right like if You’ have a single person um for a traffic stop and I believe the is the alleged issue at hand with Ty Nichols was quotequote reckless driving right do you need to then deploy a five person special unit going by the name of Scorpion right uh um proba
Probably not um and then one of the things I was reading in an NPR article was that these units that are akin to the Scorpion unit in Memphis have names like that right Crush Wolfpack right like so they’re already being set up just kind of in the nomenclature as
Aggressive you know so that is even something like why would you need a Wolfpack group for example to to go to a traffic stop like I just I mean it’s not that I know that traffic stops can be very dangerous for police officers but yeah it does feel like
You’re right that there is a thread here that perhaps needs to be pulled that isn’t being pulled um or at least not we’re not aware of it being pulled I guess yeah yeah well and it’s so funny that you’re even mentioning that uh because I’ve I’ve been a big fan of
Shows like SWAT and and Seal Team for a very long time because it does uh give some Humanity to these folks that are in special units that do really great jobs and they really have to think critically even in very high press situations um and what I’m thinking about it’s so
Funny that you just mentioned like Scorpion and you know all these highly aggressive names but I’ve seen witnessed and have friends that have served in particular units that did not have aggressive names like you can’t have Bravo I mean Bravo Team whatever team name it just happens to delineate
Between alpha bravo Etc why does it have to be so aggressive well you know I I just think it’s interesting that a name doesn’t make you necessarily stronger weaker unskilled I think it’s more about skill than anything but you know to your great point it does have a particular
Look in communities and what does it mean when you’re dispatching the Scorpion unit on one human being the crush the wolf pack on one or two human beings so you know I just think we I want to dive into the document a bit more but I do think that we need to
Think critically about who is making the decision to dispatch what are they thinking about in the moment and I know it feels like Monday morning quarterbacking it but we do need to think beforehand rather than always in retrospect especially when it’s predominantly focused on particular communities that are black brown
Indigenous Etc that to me is extremely concerning like if a if a SWAT team is pulling up on a kid’s basketball court because most of those kids are black and brown highly problematic like I’m thinking about instances like that yeah yeah I mean and I I can answer the the
Who’s deploying the team decision based on my experience with law enforcement and that you know you have a call taker someone who takes the call usually and then you have a dispatcher and that person dispatches but the dispatcher is following policy so it’s di so you’ve got the person that would have deployed
Like made the decision to deploy the Scorpion team in that situation but they are not like independently making that choice B like they’re looking at probably the scenario or what’s being reported and then they’re then based on practice and policy within the Memphis Police Department they’re making that
Choice so it isn’t necessarily the call it’s definitely not the call Taker and it isn’t really the dispatcher either right it’s going to be kind of the higher up um echelons of the police department who wrote the policy and created the criteria so that also needs to be questioned like what criteria are
You creating um to dispatch these groups and I think about scorpion right like I’m thinking about a scorpion right so it’s just they sting right so like there there’s a Precision there’s a Precision to the sting right they’re kind of small But Mighty right in that sense they can
Do a lot of damage um with a with a very kind of precise incision and so that’s why I’m thinking they probably name the team the Scorpion team but then you like then you send five of them to a single person on a traffic stop and you’re like
Well that doesn’t feel very precise that doesn’t really fit their kind of definition of a sting right like feels bit more like a sledgehammer right right right yeah yeah exactly but you know I I do think that you know that’s part of it is that you know what happens when the stereotype
Serves your cause right you know what happens when you know the the notion of The Stereotype serves your cause and you want people to know hey you know don’t do this don’t mess with us don’t think you’re going to get away with something because we have this particular uh literally Killer Instinct
And skill set to ensure that we control this group these people that that to me is a little inhumane to put it mildly inhumane um so yeah I I just think it’s an interesting concept um I don’t want to see this uh effect or continued effect on particular communities that it’s just
Not necessary it’s not always necessary now sometimes it is so please don’t go running down the street saying that shaa said that we don’t need specialized teams of course we need specialized teams but I think the the intention and the consideration that that like um kind of bookins the entire deployment of
Those specialized teams yeah it does need more consideration definitely pipeline the whole Pipeline and I think think about well Memphis is under investigation by the doj for a patent and practice investigation looking at whether there’s a patent and practice of excessive force and that’s true for a lot of law enforcement agencies
Nationwide right but those pattern and practice investigations are um highly dependent upon who is in power so with a new Administration potentially um with the election coming up this year it is entirely possible that all of those investigations into law enforcement um departments nationally related to excessive force could just get stopped
Right right because the Attorney General runs the Department of Justice the Attorney General is in the cabinet and uh yeah it depends on kind of your perspective on those things so yeah yeah absolutely abely well that actually is a good segue into into phase two because right I didn’t do that on purpose
Folks but um smooth Lisa smooth we um wanted to talk a little bit about the upcoming election um but specifically the Iowa caucuses will have when this podcast airs will have happened yesterday and yesterday was also MLK Day right and so I was curious that why why would a state um schedule
Its caucuses for the Republican Party the caucuses for the Republican party on MLK Day a national a Federal holiday right um Iowa is a predominantly white state it does tend to lean more conservative more Republican but so I did a little digging and it sounds like
They have um a like election code or it’s or state law or there’s some regulation that requires that the caucuses in Iowa have to happen at least eight days prior to the next closest primary or caucus elsewhere so the one after Iowa is New Hampshire and that’s happening on January 23rd so Iowa
Couldn’t bump their caucus to the 16th because that would only be seven days ahead of New Hampshire so it had to be the 15th but it could have been earlier than the so it could have been the Friday before or the Thursday before but they didn’t move it now I don’t there
Might be another reason why they didn’t move it right but I just think it’s it’s pretty interesting that the first caucus for the Republican Party in the United States is happening on MLK day when we know that um we you know the issue of race and racism and racial
Discrimination and all of the crap around critical race Theory that’s been put out there like that’s a big issue right and you’re holding your caucuses on a really important and prestigious holiday when it comes to racial Equity so then I go to Nikki Haley how do you
Feel about Nikki Haley shaa oh here we go here we go y’all here we go well I do think what’s what’s really interesting and I don’t think any of us unless you’re a meteorologist to predict the weather is not that great this week so
If they did bump it back a bit I mean we’ve had flooding here on the East Coast um my cousin uh she’s a a higher up at uh Iowa state they’re building snowmen out there on on campus so I know they’re having a little rougher weather this week but again thinking ahead of
Time um you know what could it have looked like if it wasn’t on MLK Day number one um I know they have lots of voting Traditions out in Iowa um Lisa something that you just reminded me of even with voting Maryland has already sent the letters out to us with websites
Uh a return envelope and even a QR code that you can scan if you want to go ahead and get your mailin ballot right now so so Maryland is kind of like on it right now in regards to voting but Nikki Haley look let me tell you something
This I’m trying to figure out if this is like the best case of self-hatred and dissonance I’ve seen in a very long time because you know anyone who has done their research on her and knows about her uh background her upbringing and so forth you know it’s very interesting that yes you know
Serve as governor of South Carolina you know Republican party Etc indianamerican right yet has the name Nikki Haley but narata is her birth name and so it just gets very flustering and frustrating for me to think about a Indian woman in a leadership role who clearly doesn’t
Necessarily embrace all of that on a regular basis and doesn’t see the dissonance between her experiences and the experiences of other people in this country especially when questioned about the history of slavery the history of exclusion any of that it’s like there’s no connection to any of that in her you
Talking about brain synapses firing brain synapses aren’t connecting the dots between similar experiences and so for me just a conundrum um it was very uh violent to my experience not to name because if you’re not going to name that the Civil War was about the institution
Of slavery then what the hell was it about then what else was it about exactly so you know avoiding saying it I think was not a courageous approach to anything and it just flat out was not accurate because what else was it about so you know I just think the
Avoidance um we we have seen other people in this country recently get into a whole lot of trouble avoiding what was blatantly clearly uh evident and should have been spoken to and she does it consistently the Civil War happened to be the most recent time she did it but
I’m like come on and you’re from South Carolina too we’ve done podcasts in the past Lisa where I’ve visited South Carolina and it’s one of the most blatantly connective places that names their connection with the institution of slavery because of its ports because of its waterways uh because of all of those
Connections it is I visited a former slave market in South Carolina so how can you hail from a state that has clear connections but you’re not making a connection to the Civil War I don’t get it and and I don’t want to get it because she doesn’t want to get it she
Doesn’t want to get it yeah do you think that she doesn’t get it or you think she just doesn’t say it because she doesn’t see that as um a narrative that would make her competitive electorally right given given that she’s not a Democrat right so she’s not marketing herself to a group
Of people that tend to be a little bit more open to talking about racism and the history of the United States I say 10 to because that is not always the case um you know like but so she just doesn’t say it out loud and I just you
Know I think there could be a piece of about there I mean she’s an intelligent woman clearly and she’s also been acculturated into a white supremacist culture right so I know why she has the name Nikki because she probably got made fun of or she probably got tons of people saying
Hi what is your name where are you from where did you come from all of that right like through childhood and into her adult years so Nikki is just easier right like I get that but to your point like she’s denying kind of a part of
Herself in doing that but then it’s also so complicated because so few women and even fewer women of color are running for office generally but running for president or kind of higher level positions in the US government I mean they’re just not there right so then it also feels complicated
To critique her in a way that we might not critique other candidates well and you know yes and let’s think about the complications too of everything that she carries with you know yes being an immigrant yes having uh um being able to having the ability to pass physically
From perception um also too I’m not sure whether she fully embraced is it or not because you know a lot of people if you think about the south and you think about just you know gubernatorial races I believe if I’m not mistaken but you can look it up um I think she’s only
Like the third non-white governor for a Southern state my home state included Doug Wilder first of course in the country and then uh Bobby jindel um in uh Louisiana so you know even with that I’m like okay how much assimilation needed to happen happen in order to be
Elected governor in a Southern state where there’s a lot of reality that faces you and there’s a lot of folks that uh don’t want to hear the history they don’t want to make the connections and so you know part of me wants to agree with you to say that you know
Maybe she knows but she’s playing the political game and then there are other times where I’m I’m stunned by the ignorance of folks and I shouldn’t be so you know I I think this could also a great time to play what we’ve talked about often Lisa about um playing
Depression Olympics in that right how much leeway does it get you to be read and perceived as a white woman running versus a woman of color running in a Southern state for these highlevel positions that also plays into it so it gets Messier and Messier yeah yeah and of course she made
That non statement about slavery in was related to this Iowa caucus right and you know predominantly white State there so she’s making some choices and I want to return to your comment that you made a few minutes ago about it not being courageous right so if she does
Know and she’s making these calculated choices based on a desire to be elected um or you know get the nomination there’s a cost to that right there’s a psychological cost there’s an ethical cost there’s a moral cost and the you know uh OBS I can never say this word obif of um
The real reason for the uh Civil War you know that will leave a residue I think I mean I don’t know that will follow her right oh yeah so absolutely absolutely yeah yeah so I don’t know how that’s going to play but that’s such a big one that I doubt very seriously
People are ever going to forget that non statement um yeah I just think it’s going to continue to haunt her um in several ways so yeah but I can’t say I’ve ever been a Nikki Haley fan um after going to South Carolina I have a better understanding
Of their treatment and uh naming of enslavement and I don’t know I just feel like coming from that state that’s a state that still is okay with naming it like you got to think about my mindset coming from Virginia where you know monachello and Thomas Jefferson language was still using uh servant when
It was enslavement versus South Carolina who still gives you a tour of their slave markets and looking at their ports and saying this is part of the history no it’s not pretty but it’s also not to be stepped over or excluded either it just it’s mind-blowing for someone to
Come from that state um and just not name it not naming it you know so well look let’s let’s get into this um phase three because I think especially with it being January y’all are hearing this right in the middle of January and what’s very cool especially in the
Higher red space uh in African-American communities in HBCU life in actually the experience of underrepresented folks at pwis as well predominately white institutions January is over run with anniversary dates of what we call the divine nine uh which are many of the black Greek lettered sororities and fraternities mine
Included so by the time y’all hear this it may be a day or two after my sororities uh anniversary so I think it’s important to name that while we’re in January and there a lot of them y’all y’all not g to remember them if you uh unless you’re someone who is Greek some
Folks don’t even know the Greek alphabet so please don’t think that you’re going to recognize all of these names but I do think it’s important to name in the month of January we have on January 5th uh Kappa alpas Sai shout out to the kappas for their anniversary uh one of
My favorites Ryan Clark uh so uh a former Pittsburgh Steeler he’s a Kappa uh January 9th th Beta Sigma uh their anniversary as well my uh my son’s Godfather is uh Sigma January 13th Delta Del Sigma Theta I have so many close close close friends who are Delta shout
Out to y’all of course my beloved Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority Incorporated um and then on January 16th which is probably when y’all are going to hear this episode uh the sisters of Zeta 5 beta sority um will be celebrating so you know given that I think it’s important
To name in January um when we have lots of stuff going on yeah we got political stuff going on but we also have Dr King’s um birthday Dr King a very prominent member of alpha alpha as well uh ketta Scott King one of my sores so
It’s a lot going on in January for the divine nine and you know it’s a culture Lisa you and I have talked about quite a bit where for example if correct me if I’m wrong community colleges are not part of the higher ed experience in the
UK HBCU are not part of the higher ed experience in the UK and I’m sure Greek life is not part of the experience in the UK so we’re just throwing lots of things at you Lisa yep yep I am constantly perplexed by the Greek system um and yeah we’ve
Had lots of conversations about it because I’m like what does that mean why do you do that tell me again why why people join fraternities and sororities um so I’ve got yeah I’ve got my British Nish that works against me here in terms of knowledge so I’m often asking Shauna
What might be otherwise perceived as kind of stupid questions cuz I really have no background or history in it and find it just fascinating but I’ve definitely been schooled and um what I would say is I you know I think it is important to recognize the divine nine um and there
Are a lot of them that were founded in January it’s so interesting to me um because Greek l is so very dominated by whiteness right when we think about the long long history of Greek life we think about sororities and fraternities that are supported on college campuses across the
Country um there’s a lot of whiteness and we know that Greek life offers mentorship support um a foot in the door um reference es job opportunities right and so that those connections so aside from the what I think is ridiculous components of the Greek system it makes sense to me it
Makes sense to be why there are fraternities and sororities that are specifically for black and African-American People for latinx People right like why they have evolved like and I get that from an abstract point but then you tell me about some of the things you had to do to get in and
I’m like huh aestic Choice thought you were 18 so okay right right exactly it’s like so much no thank you um but you know I think what’s really important about the Greek experience is I do think that this is another arm of student advocacy student organizations uh student Le everything
When it comes to leader ership um even when you look at the uh the code of arms for many of our organizations and what each element means uh what the Greek words mean themselves much of it has to do with yes Sisterhood uh Brotherhood service um and
Also this higher element of again I think a lot of people assume that oh you just you know joined a sorority a Sisterhood and all it is is fun and games and parties and lots of drinking alcohol and so forth and all these stereotypes that did not hold for me in
My experience in fact are exactly counter to my experience um and and I think that’s a counter to whiteness though Lisa you know when it comes to that piece that no in fact uh black Greek lettered organizations no you will not be drinking you will not be you know all
These things that are stereotypes um that are just not true and so you know I like debunk in those stereotypes I like knowing uh or sharing with people about my organization and knowing that there was an academic standard to even be here even on The Graduate level if you want to become a
Member as a graduate member there’s still academic standards for membership and so you know given that it’s uh I love that there’s a soft place to land for African-Americans that are in higher education especially at predom White institutions these uh our chapters are all over the world at all different types of
Institutions my line sister shout out to Shaler is uh she’s over in uh in the UK and they are formulating their own interest group and chapter of AKA in the UK in fact uh vice president kamla Harris was over there visiting and so they coordinated an event around her she
Is also a member of my sority so you know those types of things where you can see your members up on the hill advocating for things that are important in the community or the majority of the time when you go see you know go to the
Boys and Girls Club or go to a volunteer event and you see a member of a Greek lettered organization with their letters on with their jacket on with their hat on representing their organization um and knowing so many prominent figures in specifically the civil rights movement in this country we’re also members of
These organizations yeah if you least to use your phrasing if if folks that don’t know Greek life well especially black Greek life scratch a little bit deeper they will see that it’s not um it’s not a movie it’s not the stereotypes that you see on TV there’s a lot more a lot
More to it and it’s a lot of work I’ve been uh now I’m now a silver sore which means that I’ve been a member for at least 25 years y’all didn’t hear that because I’m still beautiful and young and gorgeous and all those good things
Um but I’ve been a member for going into 26 years now and it’s a lot of hard work but proud work because you see the elements of it in your community um and lots of folks that are not in the system don’t know that don’t get that they just
Assume that it’s just another another group of loud people that jump around and show up at step shows and entertain and that’s like 1% of what we do I mean step shows aside I think that your earlier Point around the like a kind of a popular understanding of
Greek life is a product of whiteness right so like certainly when I came to the United States and had zero knowledge of Greek life other than I knew it existed I’m conceptualizing a Greek life from movies right um and so the only representation in movies has been for the longest time
Less so now but still overwhelmingly white right white sororities and fraternities and so that’s how I understood it I wasn’t even thinking about the fact that um that ex that lack of racial diversity in fraternities and sororities was historically intentional right like I’m just thinking these are fraternities and
Sororities and anyone can join them I’m not sure why you’d want to but you know that like as I learned and so kind of coming to better understand both the system and then the ways in which um non-white Greek organizations have risen up in response to and resistance to this
Kind of dominant narrative I think is a really important part of there I don’t know I don’t know the timeline so I don’t know like when your sorority was founded the year um and how that aligns with sororities that are predominantly white like I don’t know where it all
Fits together but yeah that’s a great question I don’t know so we we were founded in 1908 as the first uh historically black Greek lettered sorority um the first black Greek letter fraternity was in uh 1906 and so you know given that I I don’t know the white
Greek system at all the social Greek system at all but that’s a great question um to think about um because you know depending on the Greek letter organization and the school where they were founded that also can show uh a reflection of is this another chapter of the larger organization Andor is it
Flying in the face of of social white greekdom that also did not include us at the very same time because we could be expanding just because we’re expanding or they could be very clear about the lack of integration the lack of acceptance all those things especially in an educational environment that’s
Already pretty hostile yeah I mean those two dates I mean t of the century you’re still looking at significant segregation significant discrimination um much more explicit I guess cuz that’s still exists to that degree today but it’s just a little more undercover um so yeah I think there is a historical
Context to this right um as well as then how you described the value and importance of being a member of AKA um and I was going to ask you about vice president Harris because I wasn’t sure but she is okay yes she is and what’s interesting
Is that um for those that are not aware of how kind of the system works um chapters uh so you can have the larger organization such as Alpac cap Alpha and then each chapter is named as it’s founded based on the Greek alphabet so Alpha chapter is always the first
Chapter of the large organization then you go through beta gamma Etc all the way through the alphabet uh vice president Harris was initiated into my sorority at Howard University which is the alpha chapter the originating chapter which makes it even more interesting right um but yes
She is a member and you know but you it’s a great question that you’re asking though because Greek lettered organizations also have what’s called honorary membership for those that are very prestigious in their craft or in their area or industry so you know she even though she came into the
Organization as an undergrad being someone as prominent as the vice president of the United States if she wasn’t a member she could have been invited as an honorary member later on in life for example other folks have been invited as honorary as well but yeah she’s a member but now to your
Point Lisa of what you were saying about timeline and also location you know if we think about the universities where each one was founded let’s be clear not all of them were historically black institutions many but not all so the alphas were founded at Cornell University AKA at Howard like I just
Mentioned the kappas founded at Indiana uh the q’s the Deltas uh sigmas uh Zetas all founded at Howard University Sigma gamma row Butler University and then back here to Maryland for ioty Theta at Morgan State so you know that’s what makes things interesting those are all the alpha
Chapters once we start looking at the beta chapters gamma chapters going on down the line I would love to see kind of like this interactive Wolf Blitzer map of you know it did we start at historically black institutions and then start panning out to predominately white institutions for different
Reasons that makes the whole story even more interesting yeah so I do not have the tech skills to create that but I think it’s an excellenta NE should anyone be listening and have time on their hands and the technological skill to do that I think that would be a fabulous project
If it doesn’t already exist right it might it might be out there you never know it might some much brighter than us with the tech probably has a down pad at this point so but you know I think it’s important as part of the history of this
Country given you know the number of folks that like I mentioned are U members of Greek lettered organizations the proliferation of our siblings in latinx and Native American greek-lettered fraternities and sorties in this country and what that now means for their lived experience as students I
Think is very important to name as well um and I want to stand in support and solidarity of them because you know imagine being for example already a small number of for example Native American students on a predominant white campus that come together to form something to do things in the community
To educate people about their lived experience and th those chapters then have the resources and the support to be connected all across the country to other Chapters at other schools it it uh makes the isolation the sense of belonging all of that that shifts as a result of these
Chapters and organizations existing so I think all that’s powerful and we need to support those folks as well so yeah absolutely and I think that’s a fabulous place to wrap up this week’s yeah unphased unedited um good stuff I’m still learning like I just I learned some more stuff again in this 10-minute
Conversation about uh Greek letter organizations in the black community and um I think I will continue to learn CU I really am starting from a very behind Place well look I’m I’m just grateful that you’re open to learning and knowing what all this is about I think um Lisa
Most people start with the colors they’re like okay you’re in the pink sorority or the red sority that that’s where people start right um which I appreciate but um but yeah this has been a fun podcast hopefully we covered lots of different things of course as you
Know we set this up in phases so things may connect they may not and that’s okay um but we’re following the uh MLK holiday and going through uh so many Founders days of black Greek lettered organizations um and then hopefully Lisa and I will be giving you a little bit of
A a recap of uh travel can y’all believe Lisa and I will be in the same place at the same time Miracle so um hopefully we’ll be able to share some of the things that we’re we’ll be experiencing in our next podcast but until then make
Sure that you go to YouTube and find us there go to Instagram and find us there LinkedIn of course and find us there and if you have questions we’re always interested in uh thinking out loud with you all about your questions so please send us questions to info unfaced
Podcast.com and of course go to the website unfaced podcast.com like us subscribe to us leave a review share this with your people tell them to share this with their people’s people all of that um as we all continue in this phase of life so until next time Lisa it’s a wrap
All right see you soon
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