All right welcome back to seeking Excellence this is your boy Nathan crankfield here with one of my best friends in the entire world father Jonathan Meyer Meer how doing what is going on my brother it’s very good to be with you we were actually just together
Actually in seek and you and your wife and your beautiful baby and it’s good to be now with you on seeking Excellence it is it’s great to have you back you know it’s been a while since we recorded together it’s been way too long I think
There was a trump rally the last time that I was on seeking Excellence that was one of the first inperson recorded guest episodes we ever did together um well that I ever did was with you which is really exciting but yeah great to have you back we’re going to be back
Together all four of us youi Jordan and Emily here in about a month what five weeks or something like that we’ve got the E6 Men’s Conference coming up which I’m very excited about obviously it is in one of the greatest counties in America in Dearborn County one of the uh
Greatest counties for Catholicism in the US one of my favorite places to go Guilford Indiana um to East Central is that right East Central High School right East Central High School the east6 C Men’s Conference coming up on none other than February 17th the first Saturday after Ash Wednesday everybody
In the entire nation should be coming on pilgrimage to deborn County Indiana we are celebrating 200 years of Catholicism that’s right it’s the bicentennial of Catholicism in Dearborn County and we will be hosting the Ninth Annual E6 Catholic Men’s Conference E6 by the way for those of you who are unfamiliar with
E6 is for Ephesians chapter 6 I putting on the armor of God so we’re trying to armor men up to live their faith and we’re just tremendously blessed uh with a legacy of great speakers and great opportunities for the sacraments uh for men to gather and become
Saints I love it yeah I’m very excited you know you know I’ve gotten to come to Deerborn County for several different events just to visit you sometimes but never gotten to be at the men’s conferences so I’m really excited to to be there for that this year and you know
I Emily Emily would tell you this and she’d laugh at me for saying this but I was having get another probably like my fifth and the last year um like Crisis in uh I I I told her I was like I’m having a quarter life crisis about what
I’m doing with my life just because I’m reading the book boys of drift by Dr Leonard Sachs right now I don’t know if you’ve ever read it or heard of his father but um it’s quite amazing and it really just goes deep into the problem the crisis of masculinity the crisis of
Boyhood that we have going on in the US right now around the world in different countries it’s it’s affecting people uh but it’s really really hitting us hard here in the US and Dr Sachs goes over video games he talks about pornography he talks about changes in the school
System he talks about ADHD and um specifically the medicine that we prescrib to that especially to young boys um he talks about a number of different things Failure to Launch and and the rising number of men in their late 20s and 30s that are living at home
And not getting jobs and have no motivation and he talks about just a number of different things that could be causing this and for me I’ve just constantly felt this call to to just go all in on on forming men and helping to lead men and helping to inspire men and
Really I mean I’ve always debated this I don’t even know what this shift would look like of making C Excellence specifically for men I feel like in a sense I already kind of Target that and create all the content in a way that is aimed towards that but man I want to
Write books on I want to dive more into it and so the the men’s conferences for me are just really important opportunities for me to get to able to for me to be able to speak to men um I think when I’ve gone to men’s conferences in the past I did baltimores
Last year I’ve done other ones um it’s amazing how I’m often uh I don’t know 30 years younger than the next youngest speaker and so it’s cool to be able to be there and kind of have that young representation hopefully draw more young
Men to to come but what is it for you I mean you work with a lot of men obviously I think you you live and operate in a unique place there in Deer bordon County where you have um I think to an extent from what I’ve seen when
I’ve been there it’s not untouched when it comes to progressivism and liberalism and some of the things that have emasculated and demasculinized a lot of society but you do I think have a a at least um stronger culture of masculinity in Dearborn County would you agree with
That yeah I would agree when I arrived here 10 years and I’m 10 years now at All Saints Parish uh two I I received three other parishes thanks be to God uh just about two and a half years ago but when I arrived I remember it was it was after a Sunday
Mass and there were two guys that came up and they said hey we’re part of this group called the kings men and we were actually thinking about maybe having a a Men’s Conference uh what do you think about that and I said hey let’s get some
Beers and talk about Jesus and that was really the beginning of this Men’s Conference and we’ve just been very very blessed at our Parish to have men who want to grow in their faith and so whether be through the kings men whether it be through Exodus 90 whether it be
Through a program by Christoph onic called um rise up whether like we have just been blessed with men who are hungry uh in Holiness one of my new parishes there’s a there’s a confraternity of of St maximan kby that just founded this past year and so men
That want to be different than what is being put forth by the World by the church and they realize that normal is toxic and so it’s not just the fact that they need to do something for themselves there’s also a desire for them to go out
And make a difference in the life of other men which is what the Men’s Conference specifically you know clearly is about you know we We Gather over a thousand men together we bring them all from all over the place uh when we have our men’s conferences we always they’re
Very very selective those who who make the the choices of of the speakers to try to make sure that we have some solid Catholic people that people want to come and see you know a Dr Scott Han or Tim Staples but then we also try to bring in
Like big NFL players or or uh baseball players or soccer players so that people who are on the fringes are going to come and hopefully have that conversion experience so there’s a hunger to actually bring more men into a movement of making the decision to actually live
Their life for Christ so I’m I live in a blessed area I’ll just say that it’s it’s it’s fantastic absolutely and obviously you’ve contributed to that as well I know you wouldn’t take credit for it but I think you came into a good situation it sounds like and had some
You know good structure there but what you’ve built up you know over the years I’ve always been really impressed and have told obviously many people about All Saints and the work that you do and I think that’s a no you know small part to who you are as a man and your Embrace
Of of fatherhood and masculinity yourself what do you think you know how how have you grown maybe even since you started the conference but even just over your years as a priest how do you feel like you’ve grown as a man and what what do you think has been most
Fundimental to you understanding what it means to be a good man because that’s something that I’ve been wondering you know and exploring I guess and I think that seeking Excellence is kind of a culmination and a continued um you know exposure of my process of my learnings
Of what it means to be a good man and so what what for you has been kind of the most fundamental in understanding what manhood is yeah so I think I’m I’m very blessed because you know I am a priest and I have the opportunity to thanks be
To God to go on a yearly Retreat to spend time in in contemplative prayer every single day and to try to enter into that relationship with the father and through that you begin to quickly realize like wow I have my own defects I have my own deficiencies I’m I’m a
Broken Man uh even though I might want to say that I have things together like I don’t so I think for me my process has been just the recognition of my own self through prayer through spiritual Direction uh and then once you realize the wounds that you have you want to go
And you want to go out and make a difference you want to help other men you want to stop the cycle from happening and so just from my own acknowledgement and my own looking at the Brokenness in our world the Brokenness in the church like you wanna
You want to help you want to help you want to make a difference and so I would just say that would be kind of like my own formation is the recognition of my own lack um and that Christ has to make up for that and then in that as well uh
The desire to go out and change the world to make things better so that others don’t have to suffer and live in the Brokenness uh that seems to be really just accepted now as normative like the the craziness of our world is that our world is not just our world is
Literally saying oh you’re broken oh you’re sick okay well let’s endorse that let’s endorse your sickness let’s endorse your toxic uh Ness instead of saying hey no actually God God designed you for for something more and uh so yeah men’s movements are are powerful and the reality is is and you’ve had
Some podcasts recently about this but men are leaders men were made that way and so if we want to change the church if we want things to go in a good direction we need men who are willing to lead and um yeah so I’m willing to invest it yeah it’s super important and
I think you know the church in in my experience has has become so feminized in so many different ways I think um there’s obviously some of that that could be controversial or that we could debate and discuss in ways that that’s happened whether that be in the
Liturgy or just the style of the churches in the leadership um I think one of the the worst things I actually have a podcast that I recorded that I think you’re really going to enjoy that’s coming out in the next few weeks um that is uh kind of was started by
This this video that I saw vody Bachman who’s a and I always say his name wrong I think but he’s a big black uh Protestant pastor and huge dude um he’s awesome he’s very direct um and he has this video that went viral that was him
Talking about uh just the what he calls the 11th commandment thou shout be nice and he says basically what we’ve told to men and told to Christian men over the years is like you have to be feminine you have to be nice you can’t ever offend people and things like that um
And I’ve seen that just kind of move in the church in general right I think we we often get frustrated I think speaking for the lay people we get frustrated sometimes with the Bishops who aren’t willing to come out and say things that are bold that are true that are um clear
Right we we recently had some debatably confusing stuff coming from the Vatican what do you think are the ways that um we can help and maybe men’s conferences or even just Men’s Ministry or us as just men as priests or lay men can help to reestablish masculinity within the
Church how do we kind of bring that back if I can make a distinction here which I think will be helpful and beneficial so as a priest I am called to be I am called to be Christ which means that I am called to
Be the head and in that I am called to teach I am called to Proclaim I’m called to protect I’m called to defend I’m called to be a warrior for my people okay with that we think about the masculine virtues we think about me being father at the same time as a
Priest I’m also then called to be the church when people come to me and their mom dies they don’t want me telling them about how their mom was an adul Rel relationship or how their mom uh you know was broken uh when people come to
Me and you know it’s a point of death or suicide or depression or they just want someone to help pay their phone bill they don’t want someone to be preaching to them and so I think so the church is feminine the church is Mother the church
Is bride and so I think just important is these these distinctions right we as men who are members of the church have to have feminine virtue of receptivity of openness of nurturing because when people come to us as a member of the church they want us in many ways to be
Uh the bride to be the woman in in in that sense because we’re baptized Christians members of of the mystical Body of Christ however however we cannot negate the fact that I am called to be the line from the tribe of Judah and I am called to be Christ the Eternal high
Priest who also flipped over tables uh stormed the temple uh told you know the the Pharisees and the Sadducees uh that they were whitewashed tombs so I think making that distinction some can sometimes help there clearly has has been a sense where men uh priests have
Have seen themselves as I I am the I’m the visible sign of the church to the negation of the fact that I am also called to be Christ who is priest prophet and King which means that sometimes I need to say what needs to be
Said I need to say it with Clarity I need to say it with certainty and I think I don’t that that distinction helps but to to me that’s been really really interesting even in my own priesthood of no I am I have to warn my people I need to prepare my people I
Need to teach my people and that means that I’m not always going to be nice but you want know what when someone comes to me and their mom has died I’m going to be the most compassionate and loving person in the whole entire world when someone comes to me and their their
Child has a eating disorder or their child left to Faith like no that’s when I am the image of of mother church because that’s what they’re here to see but it’s it’s that distinction which I think is is very very helpful does that does that make sense at all yeah
Absolutely I think it reminds me of something I I can never remember if it was you or father chase that told me this um but I think you guys would both be okay with me attributing it to the other but one of you told me about basically thinking about masculine
Virtues and feminine virtues we often wrongly think about them being on a spectrum and opposite ends of each other when we Al we should actually think about them as being on their own scale they’re actually more of their own scale right and we can grow in the masculine
Virtues we can grow in the feminine virtues they don’t have to detract from one another and we can actually be strong in both of them yes I agree and in fact it’s a question that I that those are the questions that I try to ask myself like am I
Being yeah am I being the man that I’m called to be and then am I also calling to be am I am I being the image of Christ’s Church and but it all has to happen it all has to happen it it yeah um and it often happens actually all all
Within one day I’m having to be both really bold F and that’s where and so and I’m not making excuses but I I understand why it’s so easy for not just priests but any man who’s trying to live their their Christian faith to just side
With one side and not the other and you end up with the mess that we’re in I can imagine it’s especially hard as a priest to do that because you don’t have the the wife to lean on right at least within our home like Emily can be that
More natural one when Jordan does fall over and hit his head he does more naturally lean to wanting to go to her to Emily and when he wants a rough house you know or be tossed in the air that’s when he’s crawling over to me um and so
For us I think in in married life you can see the complimentarity of husband and wife there doesn’t mean that a husband can or a father can be just totally cold and expect the mom all of that right the father still has to nurture and everything as well but um
And and similarly I think even within the church forward priests you do have um you know Elder women and women of the church that are there to help when uh when somebody dies right when somebody loses a loved one who is going through tragedy there are still women in the
Church that they can go to I think you know in semar they used to talk about you know a lion from the pulpit and a lamb in the confessional that that image that to Proclaim to preach to teach to instruct to admonish The Sinner let’s like let’s not forget that’s one of the
Spiritual Works of Mercy is admon admonishing the sinner like I need to call out sin father Hal and I we both preached a homy this both of us this weekend on on gossip and it was a pretty strong message like we’re gonna tell you like this like it’s very clear St Paul’s
Letter to the to the Corinthians and to the Galatians like gossip you will be cast out of heaven like there like the door of Heaven is closed to gossipers and slanderers and so like there there’s that aspect of teaching preaching but then there’s also the fact of okay I
Need to be full of compassion full of Mercy full of love particularly when PE when Sinners come to me they they need that Mercy they need when someone comes and confesses abortion to you and someone confesses adultery to you and someone confesses uh whatever is going
On in their lives like like no I’m here now to be the Christ and um I’m here to receive you in a in a beautiful way so yeah that that Duality is clearly there yeah absolutely and I think you know leaning into one side or the other
Right leaning especially into the or um I would say exclusively into the feminine virtues or to the masculine virtues I think we’ve seen a lot obviously lean into explicitly or exclusively the feminine virtues a lot of the church leaders a lot of Catholics a lot of Christians in general have done
This and I think it’s led to this feminization of the church and led to this message that we see in this article that I want to discuss with you today now seeking ex listeners have heard me reference this before this article on the Catholic gentleman written by Jason
Craig that is titled Catholic churches to men you’re not welcome here and he kind of gives four main points now I want to ask you your thoughts on each of these four and just kind of break them down and go into each one of them because it’s hard to tell with some of
These if it’s a response and like fruit of us choosing exclusively to care about the feminine virtues or if it is um you know what caused it what caused us to do that it’s hard to tell you it’s kind of a chicken or the egg thing I think some
Of these some of these uh you know negative impacts we’re seeing of of men leaving the church the the just dra horrible stats that we have on Catholic men when it comes to embracing the faith and living out their faith um and we’re seeing disassociation from the Catholic
Church at younger and younger ages um as time progresses and the problem doesn’t seem to be fixing itself but I think Jason lays out at least four of the issues here four of the problems that we have uh and the first one that he gives is there’s no Challenge and so this kind
Of goes back to what you just talked about of being a lion from the pulpit and I think that I’ve experienced this right I remember going to certain things or even I I remember being at a um a retreat when I was at Mount St Mary’s University and I’m fairly certain I
Don’t want to say who it was because some people might know but it was a priest that was working at the Seminary um and so he was an experienced and like senior priest and he came on our Retreat and he basically told us that uh masturbation for for you know teenage or
College age guys like wasn’t that serious of a sin he’s like you guys are all struggling with this it’s like we know this and he’s like it’s just you know there’s kind of sins that he was basically saying you know and you can debate this or push back on this if you
Want to but he was talking about how like Mortal sins like kind of varies it was basically given a lot of context towards it and saying that you don’t have to really consider it a mortal sin given your state of life and I just remember hearing things like that over
The years where is basically making Christianity easier which I think is what a lot of protestantism especially evangelicalism has done over time and I see the church drifting towards or already has drifted towards that right and has tried to do that as well well and just basically tried to make
Catholicism and Christianity make it all easier we reduce the levels of requirements we reduce the things that are are difficult that we have to do from fasting to expecting prayers or whatever and just everything just becomes easier and easier um how have you seen this this issue of not
Challenging in your own life and what what do you think we can do about it how do we start to challenge men again yeah so some of you might know I coach cross country and track at the local public high school and I’m using that just solely as a example but
Imagine like going to your first football practice or baseball practice or volleyball practice or swim practice and the coach is saying like hey you want know what um we’re not really gonna work out this season we’re just gonna kind of let things happen and we’re just going to hope that you become excellent
By you just you know just being here within itself being here is enough and uh no one is going to take that coach as being a credible coach uh the credible coach is going to be the individual who who wants nothing but Excellence for the individual and knows the exact way to to
Guide them to that excellence and that Excellence will always come about through struggle through suffering through hard work but also with a trust in the coach that the coach knows what’s actually best for me and that’s I think that’s a great question like is that happening like I was having conversation earlier today
With uh about just Priestly leadership in parishes and a question I think that we can ask the question is like is my Parish being led by a father by a coach or do I have a babysitter uh you and Emily both know that when you have a babysitter and you
Leave for the night your only hope is that something bad doesn’t happen there’s no desire in your heart that like w wow when I get back like Jordan’s going to be speaking Latin and no Al algebraic equation and he’s going to be walking and like like he know he’s poty
Trained now like my babysitter trained by my child like no and I I think that is sadly I think when we look at like what are Parish assignments and how do we assign priests and how do we I think there is off like how do we just keep
Things there like how do we just keep the parish from shutting down and not and not the question of like are we flourishing are we growing and so there has to be the the challenge has to be there like we believe in metanoia conversion renewal all of that is change
And so change doesn’t happen uh to go from point A to point B you have to go through a transition transition is messy transition is hard and so yeah I this a question I ask myself every every week when I’m preparing my homy when I’m preparing my sermon is like how is this
Going to mess with people’s lives how is this going to shake people up how is this going to uh make things challenging in in in I mean always like in a positive way to bring them to Virtue but that you know I think that has to be the
Constant question not just like what’s the nice little thing that I’m going to say that’s gonna make them feel good about themselves um and I also think like with that like I think it’s really hard for people to to like sometimes you can even say like something good that
You think is challenging but I think that even just in today’s world like it needs to be spelled out like here’s the two things I’m asking you to change in your life today I I think it’s very very hard when people are B you know holding
On to their kids and annoyed by the person next to them or frustrated or like he here’s the challenge today like I need you to go home and pray about these two things right like Jesus is looking for this you know inviting you to this into your life so yeah challenge
Is huge we all need it every single one of us uh the gospel is radically challenging you know go and sell all your possessions and then come follow me that’s pretty challenging so if it’s not a part of the Gospel if it’s not a part
Of our go ahead obviously you know a lot of men are are lacking we can’t we can’t force the the our pastors or priest to to give us challenging homilies you know and so I’m thinking for the guys that are out there by feel like they’re by themselves feel like
They you know the parishes I think especially true for probably people in the South but people who feel like they go all the parishes around them kind of have you know very lukewarm preaching kind of lukewarm Catholicism i’ I’ve always admired for you being out there in in the middle of
Nowhere right being out there where you lose service to go to the rectory how how did you especially when you were by yourself how do you challenge yourself when you’re alone right you were the only priest in I don’t know how many miles and how many mile radius but you
Were the only priest out there how did you challenge yourself and then hold yourself accountable to try to continue to grow and to continue to be better when maybe you feel like you’re by yourself maybe a guy that doesn’t feel like he has good friends um and again
Doesn’t feel like he’s getting good Spiritual Development from his Parish okay so you just like launched into a topic that you and I should we should have a podcast about this I mean this for real um I’m trying to write about this right now actually um but iron sh sharpens iron Brothers
Sharpen Brothers this is why we actually we need a Men’s Conference because men need to be with men because men call each other to Excellence it’s very very hard if you’re into bodybuilding if you want to run a marathon to do it on your own men need men priests need priests
Brothers need brothers so the question is if I am by myself I I still need I still can’t I still need another now in a piest sense I can say well I have Jesus in The Blessed Sacrament and I do okay so like what’s my relationship with
That with Jesus a person but also um a habit that I developed early on um thanks be to God was I I would call three priests every single day and talk to three priests in the phone uh about what was happening in their priesthood what was happening in their Parish um
Because I refused to live my my priesthood in isolation and that was just a huge game Cher for me um because I live in the country and I travel back and forth between parishes like I always I have time in my car I have and and the
The priest that I call like we all know like when we ar whenever I arrive or they arrive at their destination like the conversation ends but I’m not gonna live in isolation I’m not gonna live in loneliness I’m not like I need to hear what they’re doing I need them to tell
Me and father Chase is actually you know a true bro like Father father Chase um oftentimes would call me up he’d be listening to my homilies and then would like give me feedback on my homy right of May or or tell me that hey I’m stealing your homy thank you so much bro
I really appreciate that um or uh he would call me and tell me about something that happened in vocations and through that I would then Implement in my parish and call him back and affirm him like we like the Lone Ranger mentality is toxic and uh so in your own
Like if you’re a lay man out there if you’re a husband out there if you’re a father out there um you don’t have to live alone if if you feel like you’re the only the only guy out there this like this is you know this is the new
World that we live in right we have the ability through uh I mean this is a community right here right I mean seeking Excellence is a community like you’re not alone because you’re listening to this podcast with with with other guys and you have the ability to
To know that there’s other guys out there fighting with you and fighting for you and so um yeah I think just we have to choose Community um it’s it’s not an option it’s it’s an essential aspect to to anybody who wants to be excellent absolutely yeah you need it
And I think guys just need to recognize that you know I think one thing that is often missed when I’ve talked to men who have felt like they’re in this position and some some do this so I don’t want to you know negate that fact but a lot of
Them just don’t pray for it I think we have to pray for it we have to be intentional about trying to build it um when I was you’re right you’re you’re totally killing it right there you have to pray for it and when I was a young priest I struggled really really hard
And I wanted brothers and so I accepted a group of brothers early in my priesthood and they were toxic like it it was bad like I thought they were brothers I thought they were friends but they weren’t and it was negative and they brought me down but I kept saying
Like I need Brothers I need brothers and it actually was it was it was bad for me I remember like talking to my spiritual director and he said you need to just pray and you need to wait and so I prayed and I prayed and I waited and God
God heard those prayers and he he answered those prayers and um yeah when I look at my life now like the fraternity that I have with with true Bros and I mean that for real like true Brothers like I I am so blessed so blessed but you got you got to pray and
You got to wait you do and I think you know when I moved here to Denver we I didn’t have good guy friends for a long time couldn’t find good male friends and I knew that I needed it prayed about it attempted a couple different men’s groups that just weren’t good fits and
Just kept praying about it and gave him good you know good time I think a lot of times we don’t give things a chance right you can get discouraged and ejected because you’ve went you’ve gone to one and it’s like that didn’t really click but I think continue to pray about
It continue to hope for it and then we just it was like in a short couple of months it was like in a five Monon period that I met really now all of my best guy friends here in Denver and feel like I have an abundance feel like we
Made good couple friends that are in the same stages of life as us um but that first year was just very lonely here and I didn’t feel like I super developed it when I was in Cincinnati just because I was traveling and stuff so much same thing Kansas was very transient we
Weren’t there very long and so it was a several year period where I did have to similar to what you’re talking about be more intentional with phone calls and staying in touch with previous you know just staying close to previous friends or friends from previous phases of my
Life I shouldn’t say previous or past friends but friends from past phases of my life and I think you do a really good job of that I’ve always been really grateful for that I love getting the spontaneous father buyer phone calls um and calling you spontaneously as well so
Uh I think it it’s really really big to just set those commitments to to calling people one a day you know you tell you do three a day I think one a day or one a week even just trying to reach out to your your homies and making sure that you’re staying connected
Amen all right so the next one he talks about here is emasculated organizational culture and the the good example that he gives here is he talks about a friend of his that wanted to send a catechism to every Protestant pastor his area and he said he wrote a very friendly letter
Explaining that it seems that many people are confused by what the church actually teaches and that this might help clear up some misconceptions and open up dialogue and he was basically inviting him to learn more about Catholicism um and he saids the idea was shut down because it might be offensive
To some people and he says this quote here that I really liked he said we’d often rather leave 99 lost sheep behind to recover the one offended sheep and Men experien these things and Seed as hypocritical um because challenging people to the new evangelization and then tying their hands is giving them a
Burden they cannot bear and so I’ve experienced this even in my own life of trying to do things or I remember I wanted to start a men’s group at a parish that I was at in uh when I was at faville North Carolina when I was still
In the Army and the pastor came back to me and he said okay but we need to know exactly like what you’re going to be doing and you need to have a plan this is after I’d been volunteering in youth ministry and become friends with the perocho vicer over several months and so
I knew the Deacon well I knew the proo vicer well um and the pastor says you need to have more information he would never meet with me directly to Ask me about what I wanted to teach her go over what book of the Bible I was going to
Study but I had a group of men many of whom were rough were outside the church um that were open and wanting to commit and I said we just want to meet here at the parish I don’t have another place for us to meet we need to meet at the
Parish and he said create a plan so I create this like document I have PowerPoint slides printouts I give them all this stuff of what I’m going to do and they’re just like not right now maybe later month later come back no not right now maybe later and eventually I
Just gave up and we never did it and who knows the fruits that would have come from that but I think it’s another example of just like we’re never willing to take risks we’re never willing to do anything and obviously you don’t want somebody teaching heresy right within
The parish walls but I think a simple conversation with me could have helped him to understand that that was not my intention and not my goal but I think so often we just see these constant roadblocks this bureaucracy that exists at the diant level my God but make you
Want to pull your eyes out of your face um but biocracy of dases parishes that can be so difficult to get these things going um that I think does just kind of represent an emasculated organizational culture but how have you seen this what do you think we can do about
It yeah I mean so I just think about the fact like we’re at War like we we’re at war with the culture we’re at war with mediocrity we’re at war with what’s happening and and we just constantly hesitate we’re constantly hesitating because um you know we and I’m being a
Little bit dramatic but like we sit in a circle and we talk about ourselves instead of having eyes focused on the battle and I remember newly ordained priest this is 20 years ago I was made the dasis and director of youth ministry and where I would have my leadership
Meetings with other member of the dases uh we would sit at a small table and literally in the center of a table was a pottery candle holder of people holding hands and in the center of the people holding their hands was a candle and that was us like we sat around and we
Talked about ourselves and we weren’t outward focused on like what is happening in our culture and our world that needs to be attacked that we need to be engaging in and confronting with to bring the gospel into and I know as a priest and you know I me I mean this
Like praise God like praise the Lord for the people that have been like placed into my priesthood that that are like youan what there’s a problem with masculinity there’s a problem in the world let’s found a Men’s Conference hey it’s covid-19 and our kids can’t go to Stubenville let’s found a youth
Conference called in tense where we’ll have kids stay in tense uh and encounter Jesus in the Eucharist because we don’t know what’s going to happen uh in the midst of Co and so you know you know hey we don’t think there’s enough community and relationships in our local area hey
Let’s found a coffee shop because we need a Catholic coffee shop in our local area so people can have Bible studies and people can actually spend uh quality time with each other like if all we do is sit around um and look at each other we aren’t going to act and we aren’t
Going to move forward and yeah they’re clearly is this struggle for people actually this the story that you just just told there’s a there’s a high school kid that I coached in Jennings County he he’s called me because he’s joined a parish and he’s communicated with the pastor multiple times about
Wanting to start a men’s group and he’s got nothing in response and he he he called me up again he’s like hey father can I come to East cathic Men’s Conference because uh I’m gonna come and I’m gonna try to bring some guys but like it’s been really really hard I just
I feel like it’s roadblock roadblock roadblock in the meantime of course we know like the family’s falling apart uh men are struggling men are in loneliness there’s depression I mean we can go on and on and on of all the things but like what are we doing like what we need we
Need to turn around get out of our Circle and realize is a battle like Matthew Kelly talks about like that image of like if there’s a broken sewer pipe in your family room you would you would fix it right away you wouldn’t like form a committee and
Get a bunch of people together and talk about like what’s the way to get like you would stop the sewage coming into your house right at this very moment like things things are messed up right now and what are we doing and correct there are times where you need to like
Be very slow right and strategic but there’s also a lot that just needs to happen and men are men don’t want to sit around a table and talk for hours about what we could be doing they want to just go out and do something they want to be
A part of something they want to fix something they want to build something and uh we need to act so yeah I know we don’t want to get into Mel Robbins but Mel Robbins 5c rule is clearly what I base much of my priesthood decisions off of and for
The most part it’s been a great blessing in my own life so you got to act you got to move you can’t sit around and just talk you got to move yeah the sewage example is really great I’m going to have to steal that that’s I think so
Important to understand just the the speed at which we move we definitely don’t seem like we’re in war time you know I think the military could be a great example to us for that where the military is very bureaucratic it could be really slow but when you are actually
In battle when you need things to happen there’s a different level of urgency that that exists right you give framework to people you give them guidelines you give them Rules of Engagement but you have to let people operate in order to actually achieve and
To win and I want to really talk to you about the third point he gives here which is horrible Mass experiences and I don’t know if there’s anybody that I know that is more worked up by horrible Mass experiences um actually that’s not true there’s probably people I know that
Are more worked up by it there are lot people I don’t know that I know a priest that is more intentional in in love with creating beautiful Mass experiences than you and so tell me a little bit about your journey there because I doubt and maybe I’m wrong about this but I doubt
That you were taught in seminary to do Mass the way that mass is done at All Saints Parish and so tell us a little bit about how mass is done at all STS Parish maybe I’m wrong about that you can correct me but tell me about how
Mass is done and how you if you’ve evolved over the years in or changed maybe evolved it seems prideful but if you’ve changed over the years in the way that you’ve wanted Mass to be done at your Parish is how have you changed it and what Drew you to the place that
You’re at now yeah so um came from a place where I was not I think this just so interesting you know I’m I’m 47 years old I’m 20 years a priest and so we have to also realize like where where things were at 20 years
Ago like for all of you you know young people out there like things were really really really really bad like I remember at my first mass uh like telling some other of my like seminarian friends like all I can control is what’s on the white Corporal in front of me because there
Were big glass pictures of of wine um that were on the altar that were then poured into glass glasses and distributed to the people because that’s what happened at my Parish uh and the celebration of mass and so just things were really really bad like we forget
How bad things were um in the 1980s and 90s and 70s when I was when I was raised so when I was in seminary I began reading the documents to the church and I was just like none of this matches up with what I’m seeing like what I’m
Confused on why what this says isn’t being actualized and um I know that there’s this you know of course like clearly there’s this big you know drive now towards the tlm and for me it was just always a question of like well aren’t we gonna at least try to First
Maybe actually do what the documents say before we all like jump on the tlm bandwagon like who’s actually trying to say have we done this yet before we leave and so for me it was a I just felt very convicted when I was in seminary to say
Like I’m going to be a priest who’s just trying to implement what what was never implemented and um so even even uh prior right prior to co like Father Hollowell we wrote this document like 27 priest 27 things that priests that every priest could do right now to make the mass more reverent
Without celebrating the tlm and it was all of these things like like the average Parish like Tabernacle veils and chalice veils and using incense at all the proper times and um wearing proper vestments and you know um all of these things chanting the entire Mass the use of Latin like these
Are all things that any priest could do today anything any of them could do today and so I’ve just tried to I mean really I would just say that that that’s been like the anthem of my pres is like I just I’m trying to actually live the
Second vetan Council I’m just trying to implement what is actually in in the actual text in doing so um you know if you do that then it turns out that mass is actually pretty pretty amazing um and you know it does attract like I have found over my experiences that that men
Are attracted but not just men but reverence is beautiful right young people love reverence they love reverence they love consistency and those are things that clearly were nowhere present um and I mean that I’m just like they weren’t present in my experience of the mass as
A young person uh being raised in the 70s uh and 80s every week was something different and new and Innovative um and um reverent it was about us it really was it was about us focusing more on us so anyways it’s it’s really been beautiful I mean yeah I mean an all SC
Parish not just all sa’s Parish but now all of Deerborne County because our liturgy really has um become very cohesive across the entire County any of the seven churches you know you see well-trained servers and there’s lots of them sometimes over 20 and we chant the entire mass and we use
Incense every single Sunday at every single Mass um you know mass is celebrated uh with great execution and intentionality and music is reverent and so all of those things that you would expect to be there hopefully are there now I just want to say this like I I’m
Not you know I would I would love to see more like I’m not saying that I’m done um it’s not me when I say I’m done but like there’s still things that can be continue to be per fected for God’s praise for God’s glory um but uh yeah I
Do think that for most people uh the way that mass is celebrated is is not very edifying or attractive if we really think about what’s taking place and the fact that it is the represent representation of Calvary like Calvary itself is being put is being placed for
Us uh on the Altar and that’s a really really really big deal yeah absolutely I think it’s huge I often tell people that uh all say’s par has what I think is the best novas sordo I’ve ever experienced um I think that Lords here that’s a very big Claim by
The Way It Is Well I mean you don’t know how many no I’ve seen I might have only seen really bad ones so it still could be like you know a six out of 10 but be the best one I’ve seen so I I’m a limited person but I have been to M
Probably 20 some different states and uh seen many noas sordos actually but during my travels and things like that but I think you know parishes like Lords here in Denver we get close to it but I think that I just love the way that you
Do it it’s my favorite in the world but one of the things that you do really well and I want to ask about this brings us to our fourth Point here which is parishes have no Brotherhood is the alter boys I don’t know if I’ve ever asked you about your reasoning for why
You only have male alter servers um is that something that’s in Vatican 2 document or is that something that is more uh some that you have other reasons for why do you do that and tell us a little bit about alter boys and the culture you’ve created uh with the alter
Boys whom for whom I have great affection and love yeah so just for those of who have never been to All Saints Parish or any of the churches in deborn County because the alter boys are now all in Dearborn County across board but um the alter boys is a
Group that’s what we call our alter servers um so it’s alter boys with a z just remember that okay alter boys with a z and they’re actually this is gonna be really crazy my sister who I by who just got married by by the way on December 29th uh my sister’s a
Professional dance choreographer she works with young people across the country and um anyways so there was actually an Off Broadway musical called the alter boys Boyz that’s where I got the name from and uh they I just liked the name and they had anyways so that’s where I originally got the name because
We used to call them Men In Black in my first uh two parishes we call them Men In Black but it’s just the idea that um there’s a document called redemptio sacramentum that came out uh this is in the days of Pop the 16th and it was a
Document that was to make Corrections from things that were going bad in the Liturgy and it put out a reminder about uh the importance of having young men at the altar and I took that as just a great endorsement to realize that this is where Priestly vocations come from
But not just Priestly vocations this is like if you just have to ask other questions like in the normal in the in in the majority of parishes across our country when you go to mass on Sunday if there is a server there’s might might be two maybe three they’re scheduled um the
Priest or the sacristans before Mass are frantically trying to find servers um coming out into the congregation and you know pulling kids begging them to come back and um I have just found that if you create a fraternity number one you never have so we we don’t have a
Schedule there’s never a schedule it’s one less thing for my staff to do but it also then creates memories and experiences uh and genuinely A brotherhood so just like last Sunday I was processing out of mass and there were 20 servers at mass and I got to the
Back of the church and there were a bunch of alter boys alumni and so these are all the Bros that are they technically can no longer serve because theyve graduated from high school and I turned to uh one of the sacristans someone who sets up for Mass who’s in
The back of the church I’m like look at this alter boy graveyard back here I’m like all these boys back here like they they wish they were still uh that they were still able to serve um and it was something really really beautiful but I mean like my experience Nathan I know
Once again born and raised Catholic I was an alter server my brother and I served Mass but like I had no relationship with these other servers like we weren’t a Brotherhood or a community we were we just fulfilled our our function on Sunday morning uh once a
Month and then we went home and so the idea is actually to create a Brotherhood this is you know I’ve learned it you know just from my experiences in sports and Athletics but you just I mean you just look around like this is like do we want thriving communities do we want
Like these are our future men who are going to run our Parish festivals that are going to you know be coaching C basketball then coaching C football and these are the men that we want to be involved in our men’s group in our Bible studies and these are the men that we
Want to be raising other good men and so I want to form them now I don’t want to wait until they’re having the crisis like later in their life like so so creating the fraternity now and I always like listen this is a weekly youth group
The weekly youth group might only be for five minutes before Mass but that’s our weekly youth group and that’s the opportunity to just be like hey I know every one of my servers by name I know what school they go to I know what’s happened in their life and it so it’s
Not about not not saying like that it’s me me knowing that they also know each other and they they feel comfortable talking to a priest and they and they’re next to the altar like I always just say that as well like I want as many young people as possible to be kneeling close
To the altar of Jesus Christ like why would I not want that so creating that fraternity aspect is is really important and having that ability for them to have that relationship ship with Jesus because then you know in the sacry before Mass I can talk to them about like you know
What do you just a few days ago we were before Mass I asked every I went around the the the sacy I asked every single server before Mass like what’s your mass intention today what are you praying for today at Mass right I mean like when does that conversation happen um but
That opportunity is there to happen that and it’s happened you know in a beautiful way so anyway just thankful for all those little opportunities that we have uh yeah to make those encounters so that the alter boys we have logos we have merch we have gear we have everything they have they have
Everything every article of clothing you could imagine uh they’ve been given there swag so it’s fantastic they have more swag than you can imagine that’s awesome man well father thank you so much I’m excited to come and experience the novas Ordo at my favorite novas Ordo
Parish in America in just five weeks and so we want to invite people again to the E6 Catholic Men’s Conference there in Dearborn County Indiana at East Central High School and so we’ll both be there obviously um I’ll be giving one of the the keynote talks and and be there
Throughout the the entire day and so uh very excited for it father is there anything else you wna you want to share on that yeah no I just want to encourage you check us out at E6 Catholic Men’s Conference E6 Catholic Men’s Conference Tim Staples Shan Casey uh my dear friend
Father John Hollowell who is cured at Lords uh Nathan my bro is gonna be uh the MC for the day and yeah I mean we’re talking 37 days away my people so get signed up get checked in and I really do hope that you can join us if you’re
Anywhere in the local area feel free to fly in we have a coffee shop by the way as well so ours Cafe and median house ours Cafe is name after St John VI the Cur of ours um not a pirate not ours like a pirate more like ours uh in
France but uh yeah I mean there’s a lot you can check out we got four beautiful churches that are right there in the local area so you can make Pious pilgrimages to all of those it is the national eucharis rival and it’s our Bicentennial 200 years of Catholicism I
Me so many reasons to come to Dearborn County uh besides just to see Nathan and uh yeah God Bless you that’s right thanks so much father it was a great talking with you as always and um we look forward to having you back here on seeking Excellence peace
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