Welcome back to another episode of the corporate Cowboys podcast my name is Alex as always your host and I’ve got you for another 30 min actually you’ve got me right for another free 30-minute consult related to professional development if you are interested if you are in a position or looking to put
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Questions coming from online also also helped me it’s uh this is a form of therapy this is a form of uh self-reflection if you will professional reflection and you are just listening in so the question comes from r slash career advice and this one is a pretty long one the
Body on this is pretty thick so I’ll read you the title and it reads my boss is making me stay after my four weeks notice because my replacement ghosted and for those of you that aren’t aware ghost it is it’s just when they’re a no-show a no-call no-show so apparently
This person gave notice four weeks notice geez that’s generous that’s overly considerate I’ve got to ask if I had this hypothetical client in front of me I would have to ask what field they’re in what company they’re in what what considerations went into making that decision to give them four weeks
Notice when typically I’ve seen professionals give a two-week notice if that if that if they got something else lined up and circumstances are favorable it could give less than two weeks in some situations when you give your two weeks notice your employer can choose to make it effective immediately and that could be
For any number of reasons maybe you’ve got some sort of special access or a special clearance to to view confidential information or or handle confidential materials proprietary materials of the company and and they want to mitigate any risk that in that two-week span that you’ll give notice you know you might do something
That harms them in regards to that proprietary information to that company property if you will but we don’t know that here we do have some some facts though and I will try to pull any reasonable inferences from them in order to better inform my Reflections my perspective on this individual’s situation
I might voice relevance questions that you The Listener might choose to write down but these would absolutely be questions that I might be asking in an interview so there might be questions that I could I could ask or I could infer from having the hypothetical clients in front of me you can read
Into the situation so my boss is making me stay after my four weeks notice because my replacement ghosted I work for a one-person Law Office oh [ __ ] me that’s tough ain’t it that’s tough when you are when you are essentially a key person the key person that keeps the operations running smoothly
I’m not going to say you owe this this managing partner you you don’t owe them anything you gave them your four weeks bounce right regardless of whether they got ghosted or not what are you banking on some type of referral a professional referral a recommendation if you aren’t you don’t need to stick
Around especially mind you this is a huge asterisk especially if you already have something lined up especially if you are committed to having started somewhere else if not at the end of your four week notice you’re affected the employment agreement is effectively terminated if they choose to keep you on that means
That they are in need of you and and that’s a new employment agreement it’s at will mind you they could choose to fire you the next day just like you could choose to leave the next day you could leave whenever but if they want to keep you that actually presents an opportunity
To renegotiate what you were getting paid previously I mean it’s obvious they need you granted you want to evaluate this uh one person law firm’s financial situation if you can right I want to gouge an eye out but it might just be compensated just what you’re worth for keeping the firm operating
In bridging the lack of personnel I’m using big terms now mind you I’m I’m using somewhat bigger terms but I should probably make this easier to listen sorry I’m practicing I don’t I don’t interact with myself I don’t um reflect on myself often which is why this serves
As a form of cathartic therapy now the hypothetical client continues I work for a one-person Law Office okay I have a great relationship with my boss okay but this job has caused me too much stress are you not getting paid enough I submitted my resignation to my boss
May 1st my last day should have been May 22nd that’s four weeks from May 1st overly generous my opinion overly generous so they continue I wrapped up as much as I could and got everything organized for the new hire whose first day was May 22nd that was my last day since my boss
Was very stressed out about my resignation I said I would stay a couple extra days to train the new hire see [ __ ] up man overly generous you’re not even working for them anymore and still and still you agree to stay on a couple extra days
To train the new hire I hope I hope you charge for those days doesn’t matter how great a relationship you keep with this boss with this manager you should be getting paid commensurately you should be getting paid appropriately so please note they say please note that this new hire has years more experience
Compared to me as I started with zero experience the only things I could train them on were administrative related tasks and not even the legal stuff since I’m such a beginner so two days was enough time for the things I was training her on I I get that I understand that
Um if the new hire has more legal experience again we don’t know exactly how much this hypothetical client how much work this hypothetical clients was taking on uh in the form of administrative or office duties right if the lawyer also had them preparing or writing motions or briefs or or
You know operating in the realm or capacity as a paralegal or a law Clerk you know then then we’re talking that they’re getting the experience but they’re still only uh what is it how many how many years [Laughter] it doesn’t say how many years that they’ve been working for them okay well if this other person has more of that legal experience than the only I guess uh transfer down is going to be the practical knowledge not so much the technical because legally and Technical this new hire would have
Years more experience and and um in applying the their legal skills but the practical an administrative duties within the office as far as this lawyer’s style for management and organization that might take a little window of time to get accustomed to for this new hire to get acclimated to
So it makes sense it makes sense that someone should stay on and train them or the lawyer should train them themselves but you offer to stay on and claim that two days is enough okay okay fine but compensation is still an issue here you’re staying on past your termination
Date so I’m hoping you’re getting compensated somehow they haven’t told us this yet so they say the only things I could train them on were administrative related tasks and not even the legal stuff since I’m such a beginner so two days was enough time for the things I was training her on
The first day of training on May 22nd went great okay okay so they showed up I thought they didn’t show up to their first day of work even so now this tells me that they showed up for the first day of training maybe the second day of training
And then stop showing up you know what this new employee did they exercised their option to terminate their employment agreement at will such is life everyone is entry level forever just like that lawyer could have fired them from one day to the next just like that lawyer could have fired
You from one day to the next without notice this new hire employee did the exact same know her feelings no no hurt feelings unless them leaving unless by them leaving they intended to cause them some harm and even then it would have to rise to the level of of of malice
Right they they took whatever computer systems you taught them on and and totally inverted them totally broke them down disorganize them so that the lawyers law practice would suffer we’re not hearing that yet they say the first train the first day of training that was on May 22nd it went
Great my boss and I both agreed that I should do a second day of training and then I’ll finally be done I really don’t like these these verbal agreements these oral agreements you should be putting this [ __ ] down and writing and getting paid for it however in the middle of our second day
Of training today the new hire left for lunch and never came back she will not answer her phone texts or emails [Laughter] yeah yeah she effectively ghosts the dress she must have seen that either the lack of volume and work or the lack of organization something about the firm
Rub them the wrong way I’ve seen it before uh I’ve I’ve done that before I think I’ve done that before but not in a uh in an Uber professional setting like a law firm no it was fast food when I was younger it’s from one day to the next I’m like
I’m not coming back to this [ __ ] because management was inept right because management was inept because there wasn’t support in place and it’s been said that employees won’t quit a job they quit a manager right the the job could be [ __ ] but if the manager makes the job worth clocking in too
The manager makes the job worth clocking in for and working out the shift employees will stick around I myself have an anecdote about just that when I worked in California actually I worked in the Bay Area was managing a uh a very popular Mexican Grill I’m sure you know
Which one I’m talking about if you go and get their burritos or their burrito bowls and I was moving up through the rinks I was putting in massive work to move up through the ranks so I was hungry I was ambitious but I came to work every day hungry
And with a positive disposition was you know more I was younger I had more energy I was very resilient I’d pull shifts from Bell to Bell because I wanted to see my store my restaurant succeed there were days where because I had originally came in at a very tumultuous time a very uh
Shaky very shady a very sheisty time there was a lot of rumbling a lot of Shifting in the ranks taking place just immediately above us and in corporate within corporate a lot of that was shaking up but the rest of this Corporation look like you know from corporate down so
When it came time for me to become a manager I mean I I spearheaded that [ __ ] I’d led by initiative and my lived experience is is have helped me lead and develop my crew to become top performers and then the best performers develop them into managers quite the operation
I really had to dive in and educate myself via any and all available manuals so that I not only would get promoted but couldn’t negotiate what I would be paid I wasn’t just handed the extra dollar and the title and told you know go go off and and get to work
That’s what they had done in previous generations without any training without any support without any resources for helping them perform successfully I went out and educated myself I dove in I didn’t go out I dove in and educated myself and this corporate manager [ __ ] out of the gall the [ __ ] balls
To tell me that they wanted to see because because just because I stepped out or I stepped up and negotiated my wages they believed they were doing me a favor and so they told me oh I I want to see a return on my investment
Yeah no I dug myself into a into a hole I painted myself into a corner because I was the only one who had done this and so I lacked the support I lack the resources because I was still a middle manager not even within corporate so corporate expected me to turn the tide
Of a store that was suffering all the while my my colleagues and my supervisors weren’t trained to the level that I was so I took my time I took my time carried out my work to the foot of every letter and shared this knowledge freely I really cared for my people I wanted
Them to get better you’d be surprised man I I hired and fired tons of people I trained tons of people I helped develop a number of people to get promoted I trained people older than me I trained people in their 50s I trained young young people 18 19 20 years old
I mean we’re effectively the same age back then I was also in my late teens early 20s and these kids and never worked a day in their life they’d know how to they didn’t know how to wipe down a table they didn’t know how to wash dishes
They didn’t know how to sweep a floor or mop it how to clean windows just just basic basic cleaning tasks I had to train them on it was insightful it was really enlightening having to um reconcile the fact that I was training people my age and I was
Already a manager I was set to take the store over some of these kids were were drug users and abusers and me I ran that [ __ ] with an iron fist I did my best to wear velvet gloves on both hands [Laughter] I had fun I had fun I had fun
Putting in work and making the job fun I hope and later on it was confirmed for me this was years after I left the company the corporation one of these newbies one of these young cats okay hit me up on social media they searched me out on social media we weren’t even
Friends I you know I was very I guess I always have been pretty professional and uh isolated in that sense where business is business personal is personal so unless unless I’m making friends we’re just Associates but they reached out to me and they told me that uh
That they remember their time with this company specifically working with me and that I taught them how to work and I taught them how to enjoy the work and I I began I began feeling emotional right this was this was all through this was all through a virtual call
I began you know feeling emotional and um that’s when they revealed to me and I I low-key already knew because they would show up to work and on some days perform very perform very poorly very very poorly and they told me that they were going through a benzo addiction a benzodiazepine
[ __ ] Xanax on those any bars right they’re on a going through a benzo addiction sometimes they would arrive to work barred the [ __ ] out sometimes they were going through withdrawals and they didn’t want to show up to work sometimes they had ideations of ending it all and they said that
They came into work and clocked in because they got to work with me that [ __ ] fuels feels good it feels wholesome it’s lacking no other feeling I mean you you truly don’t know what someone else is going through yeah you can bag on them and and I I think even
At some point right we take everything everything for granted everything as a joke because we we would bag on them like that was that was our form of of hazing and training of getting them inculcated into our crew I mean when we performed like a crew
It’s about as close to family as you could get without sharing blood but we’re not going to come out and say oh when you work here you’re like [ __ ] all of that [ __ ] all of that when you form a crew there’s still a basis of trust they’re still a basis of respect
And that’s what they showed up to work for it’s something else it’s it’s amazing it’s an amazing feeling so I could see I could see that going down at this one-person Law Firm it doesn’t mean that you can’t renegotiate for the days that you’re there if somebody else left out it’s because
Maybe they saw the writing on the wall that they were in the wrong place especially if they have more years of experience on you it must have seen some some red flags some insurmountable task at hand that they just couldn’t overcome and so they dipped out it also happens
Let me let me finish out this fact pattern because High deviated so they say now my boss oh sorry however in the middle of our second day of training today the new hire left for lunch and never came back she will not answer her phone texts or emails
Now my boss wants me to stay longer while we look for a new replacement I am distraught this job has caused me such immense anxiety and stress I was so relieved to finally be done today and that relief I was feeling was completely crushed I even burst into tears at my desk [Laughter]
Dip man if you got something lined up dip if you don’t have it lined up kick it back to your boss renegotiate your wages if you’re going to stay on double it double it [ __ ] it what are they gonna do say no double it you get you get along really well
With your boss and you need the money no no [ __ ] that maybe you need peace of mind if your boss is willing to go into their pocket and give you that I mean [ __ ] you could pull time after hours with less stress knowing knowing that your time is being
Compensated you might have to renegotiate with yourself to some extent but if this isn’t just an eight to five where you’re putting out fires running from fire to fire taking care of emergencies but if what if you did treat this as a eight to eight [ __ ] I’ve done it
I mean you effectively are an office manager or a case manager again we don’t know to what extent this hypothetical client is taking care of operations at the law firm but you effectively are in a management position if you have no one else to report to except for the lawyer
You’re not just a secretary you’re not just an assistant you’re an operations manager I mean to what degree we could qualify that it’s up in the air those are questions I would be asking the hypothetical clients if I had them in front of me but breaking down into tears at your desk
I mean that’s understandable it’s understandable we don’t know how old our hypothetical client is if they’ve ever been in this kind of stressful situation in the past so I’m not I’m not passing judgment I’m just saying it’s it’s unreasonable it’s an unreasonable response when when you have other options so it’s good
That you can pose your situation you can pose your dilemma online I mean if you want some perspective I’m I’m hoping that Reddit did its part hopefully some professionals came through hopefully some with a corporate Cowboy mentality gave you some good commentary to run with my comment is going to be
Get your peace of mind in blood I mean and money but blood just sounds more it just sounds more graphic get yours in blood damn I might have that posted on our Instagram be on the lookout for that so they end off here last two paragraphs
If I say no to my boss about staying longer which I have tried to do before she go oh she guilt trips me damn I mean is this this practice this whole situation evolves is just High Strung emotion I I guess I don’t know if our hypothetical clients is male or
Female but it’s a whole lot of manipulation just taking place if I say no to my boss about staying longer which I have tried to do before she guilt trips me and says that now she has to retire and sell her law practice all because I’m leaving [ __ ] it leave
Take her out the game for some reason she hasn’t built up her law practice or maybe maybe she’ll go work for someone else I mean how old is she saying she’s gonna sell her practice and go retire maybe she should retire does she have enough to you could help her explore these options
But again again I think you would need to be in a position of of uh of trust a position of Rapport having built this type of rapport to even suggest that or inquire into that about why why you are the key person that holds it all together why they’re having issues retaining
You even right why they’re having issues retaining you if you are planning on leaving why why was there an issue retaining your replacement before they left you know what what type of pattern has emerged from past higher ease from past employees I mean those are all valid questions to be asking
But if all you’re going on if all you are basing your decision on is how you feel about your boss oh but I really like my boss oh she’s really cool oh she makes me feel really bad [ __ ] all that man that’s all [ __ ] [ __ ] if she can’t
Double your if she can’t double your wages I think she has to retire [ __ ] it you don’t belong there again we don’t know what type of law they practice these are questions that we would ask I mean we want you know some some depth a lot really a lot of in-depth detail
Biographically about the client in order to make an informed opinion something that they could possibly act on but uh I mean we would have to disclaim we always disclaim any advice with uh with the fact that your mileage may vary right I’m giving a lot of analysis that I’ve read in
I have read into situations like this Law Firm I personally have lived through situations like this Law Firm and I’ve also consulted it with other associates and colleagues and mentors and mentees about situations such as this one-person Law Firm so they’re saying that thought to sell her law practice all because I’m leaving
I do not want to be the person oh sorry I do not want to be the reason she retires also she really likes me and I do not want to burn this bridge what do I do how exactly will you burn this bridge she’s a one-person firm connected
Not not connected like mobbed up but it is she connected and got that that kind of clout where if you leave out I mean you gave her four weeks notice that’s professional enough she as a lawyer should recognize that that’s professional as [ __ ] it’s overly generous
If at the end of four weeks she can’t find a replacement you are dust her hands off done you’re done your agreement is satisfied now if she wants to keep you she wants to retain you now I see what I did there typically people retain lawyers but if
This lawyer wants to retain you I mean now you can now you can up your rate now you can up your fees double your money [ __ ] it if he doesn’t want to retire I guess you’ll have to pay to play otherwise what is she going to write you
A a poor letter of recommendation from from her retirement [Laughter] I know I’m laughing now but these are definitely questions that I would want answered yeah I I get and I appreciate that she read that she really likes you or she really likes your work but you don’t know if it’s because she
Likes you and admires you and your Ambitions and aspirations and not just because you keep her [ __ ] Law Firm running and then the moment you quit right if if when you quit after having given her professional notice if when you quit she doesn’t like you she never liked you as a person she
Only liked you for the utility that you brought in keeping her law firm in operation in smooth operation now that you’re gone she might be cursing you uh one uh one final paragraph here they add an edit then I’ll let you go they say sorry I just realized I
Mistakenly kept saying four weeks when it’s really three weeks I was frazzled when I typed this the point is we both agree that after the second day of training I would be done and now she has changed her mind who the [ __ ] cares who the [ __ ] cares that she changed her
Mind and she doesn’t want you to leave you’re gone you’re already two days over your notice she wants to keep you she’ll have to re-hire you and this rehiring process means that it comes with a bonus with a kicker with a with an opportunity to renegotiate your compensation why because she needs
You why because she doesn’t want to retire why because she likes you that’s why she’ll have to pay you more how about that flip it flip it on them oh she likes you that much [ __ ] it pay me oh she likes me that much okay run it pay me
I’m from the job girl man have a good night a little Proof of Life Tuesday May 23. 2023. take care
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