Welcome back to another episode of the corporate Cowboys podcast as always my name is Alex and you are joining me for another half hour it’s a free consultation for you to just kick back and listen because I mean this question isn’t coming from you right if you want personalized
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Listen to Because as long as we’re kicking and as long as business is business as long it’s it’s business as usual as long as it’s business as usual you’ll have us so uh this also helps me think through specific scenarios and situations that I can also practice
Uh how I would address a potential client right so I’ll be walking you through a mental blueprint of sorts sometimes expressly sometimes I’ll be actually thinking out loud and other times you’ll have to infer that by yourself but you know a lot of those inferences I will
Pull from the facts that are available to us and made available by the hypothetical client right before I go off uh asking them questions if if I would be asking them questions in an interview today’s question it’s coming from our slash career guidance and they’ve flared it for advice right
So this is a Reddit thread that they’ve flared for advice meaning meaning they want some input they would like a little perspective and I hope that as a corporate Cowboy the perspective I give is enough to motivate you the listener to think proactively right not to think reactively
The title of this is asking am I asking too much of a raise am I asking for too much of a raise that’s it that’s a short title short and sweet and I think just off rip um it depends really it does depend I know I know that’s such a simplistic
Legal answer right it depends that’s what we learned in law school but um but really if you can if you think you’re asking for too much if you think you’re asking for too much you might be right you might be that there’s there’s always the possibility that you might be but
But you can remedy that personally by researching the position that you are interviewing or applying for and evaluating your personal skills and see what kind of a fit what kind of a fit your skills make with the position being offered and whether or not the skills that you have you can
Use to later capitalize on the same position that you are applying for so that is to say that is to say really that while it depends I think you could begin answering the question yourself bye doing your due diligence as a professional as a corporate Cowboy
I mean are you going to tie yourself down to the pay range if that’s what you think they’re offering if you believe you bring more to the table then even the duties outlined the duties that are that are outlined on the job listing I mean when you go through the interview process
You want to ask the kinds of questions that will outline where your duties begin and where they end end if you can if you have um the tenacity begin exploring in the same interview begin exploring those positions that are lateral to you those positions that you will be working Maybe they have
Maybe they fill out those other tasks and duties with skills you might bring or maybe they don’t cover areas with the skills you currently possess so you could be bringing more to the table than it is even on the job listing that there is an opportunity for negotiation
I don’t know if I explained that sufficiently but before I get carried away again that’s that was just a mental note if you can catch on to that by all means if you want to go back and and replay it do that but I’m not going to get too
Carried away the body on this one is pretty long so I’ll try to read through it without interrupting our hypothetical clients stream of Consciousness if you will and um we’ll see where they take us I mean I I do hope that the longer the body is the
Longer the body of this message is the more facts they give us the more inferences uh that we can deduce and we can infer and then from there hopefully inform some type of uh corporate Cowboy perspective for them to consider so they start with I’m currently working as a manufacturing slash process
Engineer four a medical device startup in Austin Texas okay so we know they’re in the U.S they’re in Texas Austin Texas and uh they’re an engineer manufacturing slash process engineer for medical devices mind you so I’m thinking they’re either making really good money or really [ __ ] money but
Because they’re asking for arrays and they’re debating whether it’s too much I’m thinking maybe they make you know [ __ ] money right now in exchange for a long-term commitment or maybe they’re one of one of the starters for it one of the founders for it so they get you know
A piece of the action some type of profit interest in the company while it’s in its startup phase we don’t know I’ll stop interrupting so they write I originally interviewed for a senior position but the offer they made was for a level one which I negotiated up to a level two I accepted
A salary of 85 000 with 10 000 in Company stock okay the reasoning they gave was that I had the experience to be a senior level I didn’t have what I didn’t have the experience as one okay I see so they have well I guess that’s what happens when
You don’t know how to how to hustle right when you don’t know how to negotiate properly if you have the experience to be a senior level then you can be a senior level you don’t need to have experience as one I think having experience as one might make you more preferable
Might be more favorable because you have experience in the very position you are applying for but if you have the experience that’s equivalent that qualifies you for it exp and it could be extra experience but it is experience that you can nonetheless transfer into this senior level position
It doesn’t mean you’re not qual it means you are qualified so the fact that you weren’t able to negotiate your way there uh that you weren’t able to get your way there I mean it’s a sign right I’m making an inference already and it’s not positive but it doesn’t mean that you
Are without hope so I’ll continue as part of the offer letter they gave Milestones that if reached would lead to receiving that title one was to improve the device usability by replacing the system used to set the position of the key feature of the device with one that
Is more user-friendly the second that’s the second milestone was to reduce the overall units cost by 20 percent [Laughter] all right so they want you to do senior level work but they’re not going to give you the senior level they want you to do senior level work for the title but
They’re not going to give you the title okay it has been about a year and a half since I started and I will be walking into my performance review tomorrow knowing that I improve the design to where user from users familiar with the old design are excited and can’t wait to
Use the newer iteration and not only did I reduce costs by 20 I beat that number and the reduction is closer to 28 percent while the title is important to me what is more important is the expected compensation that goes with it I have done my research and spoken with
Recruiters to get a good picture of what my value is on the market the general consensus that I have come to is that my value as a senior engineer Falls anywhere between 105 to 120 thousand dollars total compensation with one recruiter approaching me with a position that offered 130
000 total compensation wow that’s a jump that’s a huge jump right now they’re getting paid uh what is that 95 000 total comp total compensation I guess 95 adjusted for whatever their stock price is because they’re getting paid 85k plus the 10 in stock options if if they’ve exercised
Them already but they’ve got 10K in Company stock and that uh is dependent on where the stock price is uh present day right in in today’s and today’s Monies they’ve received offers from recruiters for up to 130 130 000 that’s a jump it’s a huge [ __ ] jump
That’s Jumping Up by almost almost half what is that 40 45 percent I’ve done uh what is it I’ve done my research no they’ve done their research and that’s where they got the uh the the recruitment offers my plan they continue my plan is to use the Milestones as
Justification that I have earned the title and if successful ask for one hundred twenty thousand dollars plus an additional 5 000 in shares My worry is that this figure is too high of a starting point and will make the conversation more difficult I have no intentions of leaving my
Position but that doesn’t mean I won’t accept a number that is well below what I’m worth I have a bottom figure I won’t go below and a number that I would like to settle at so long as the difference is made up with an equal or greater amount of equity that’s
Stock shares shares in stock I love my job they continue I love my job and I don’t want to leave unless I have to I love the work I have done and believe in our product I’ve been somewhat vague on purpose as I’m always a little paranoid that they might stumble across
This post and know what my strategy is okay okay well I think you’re off on the right you’re off on the right track you’re off you’re off you’re you’re on the right track as far as negotiating you do want to put up a high figure so if you do
Have to negotiate down if you’re the one who’s got to compromise if you are the one who has the compromise then they can meet you halfway you can meet them halfway into something that you feel comfortable in right you never know if you bring those Milestones up and you
Know how to present them persuasively and advocate for yourself you could get the raise that you’re looking for and the title the title that comes with it otherwise you might have to settle for a small raise and no title right so you don’t want to leave empty-handed but at the
Same time I get what you’re saying you don’t wanna gouge their [ __ ] eye out either you want them to see your value to see your point to view this from your perspective but not gouge their eye out doing so that’s reasonable that is reasonable that being said I think it’s important to consider
That whenever you’re going into a negotiation especially for a negotiation where you’re asking for more you want to feel Justified you want to not only do you want to feel you want to be justified so you have the feeling of being justified right so if you’re if you’re if you are uh doubtful
If you are what the term I’m looking for if you are not concerned I think I think the term was doubtful if you are a wavering equibling no what’s the term I’m looking for if you are unsure or uncertain I guess that this High figure you’re requesting won’t appear Justified given the
Milestones that you’ve achieved and beating them out beating out the milestones by a significant margin by quantifiable margins not not only qualifiable but qualifiable margins like you’ve got the metrics you’ve got the evidence you have solid proof that you can do your more above and beyond their expectations I mean
Really what you have to do is advocate for yourself and hustle pretty much exactly what I said above and beyond expectations and that shows serious commitment what you are capable of what you are willing to do your creativity your efficiency your efficacy it just shows your efficacious
They leave a couple of notes Here our hypothetical client the first is an edit an edit to this original post they write I greatly appreciate the feedback I’ve gotten so far and understand the logic behind why more than 20 percent doesn’t make sense I made the comments below
About uh I made in the comments below but added it here for to add more clarification add it here to add you know they miswrote that I out of the comment you see I’m trying to revise in real time I made it to the comments below but added it here for
Clarification there you go I am the only manufacturing engineer at our company and for a period between November and January I was the only engineer we have since added an r d engineer with several years of experience and a product development engineer who is fresh out of college with the Masters
And only a few years of experience we will have another engineer starting at the end of the month with limited work experience who just got their doctorate before that it was myself our product development engineer who left the November and an undergrad who left to pursue their masters
The improvements that I have made have also led to significant interest from the two largest companies in our sector as well as key selling as well as as well as a keys as well as key selling point to investors that led to a multi-million dollar raise what the [ __ ]
The one the improvements that I’ve made also led to significant interest from the two largest companies in our sector as well as as well as being as well as being a key selling point to investors that led to a multi-million dollar raise okay so that you know yeah
There’s still the startup phase I don’t know what uh uh what What’s the term I’m looking for what series they’re in right series A through Z right we don’t know what round of funding they’re in so being a startup this is good this is a
Good sign so off of the back of this project that they undertook they’re getting more funding for the company right from designing it to be more user friendly and cutting down the cost of the design I mean that’s that’s a difficult task to tackle but our client our hypothetical client here
Uh knocked it out the park apparently because their market research whatever market research they’ve conducted right I mean we those are questions that we would ask also whatever market research they have conducted in conjunction with the cost reductions have been extraordinarily positive now to me to me that tells me
That they need they they need a consult they need a consult in order to present this uh fairly but also persuasively like you don’t want to go in exaggerating and say that the the company wouldn’t be where it is without you right even though your work was you or you
Claim the client the hypothetical client claims that their work was the key to obtaining the funding I mean that’s not something you want to throw in the company’s face without first smoothing them over you want to think like a corporate Cowboy you want to be professional you
Want to be the most reasonable so that when you ask for this 20 this 30 this 30 this 40 raise it’s because you see a future in the company and what you are selling to the company is a future together I mean you were one of the first on
Board from what we’re reading here you want to stick around long term you want to see this thing through as much as possible but for that commitment there’s got to be some sort of mutual mutuality to it there’s got to be a consideration on their part and that is to pay you
More money that is to give you more equity why doing so would increase the stake that you have in your work with the company and when you have an increased stake in the work that you do you gain commitment dedication focus and drive motivation to be better the next round of funding
May or may not be easier to secure but now you know what the what the objectives are you have the milestones clear-cut from there it’s just about stacking them up just about multiplying and expanding on the success you’ve already attained so you’ve knocked those Milestones out the park
And that takes me back to the agreement you had with management about achieving these milestones and then getting that title is that conversation in writing [Laughter] you see comes back to covering your ass I mean they covered theirs if it’s just an oral agreement it’s it’s it’s it’s
It’s a it’s an oral promise good luck proving that good luck I mean you already you’ve already got your foot in the door you work for the company I think a significant step towards facilitating this conversation for a promotion and title and an increase in compensation would be something in writing
Because that shows that both you and the company were planning this all along we’re planning to have you be promoted we’re planning for the company’s success you are planning together I think that that would have been just chef’s kiss another foothold for you to present a very persuasive a very persuasive rationale
For giving you that title and whatever compensation it is that you’re asking for but again that’s higher level strategy and some clients do come to us for that bear in mind keep in mind though that clients who come to us want to keep their their particular situations confidential and I recognize
The uh the opsec the operational security that this hypothetical client is also employing by being direct but being vague right they want to they want to provide as much detail as possible without divulging any confidential or personally identifiable information right any personal personally identifying information to be identified yeah yeah personally
Identified personally identifying information but that can be done I mean you come to us we are your consultant in your situation remains your situation you just are purchasing and by purchase that’s it’s going to be uh by purchase I mean the what’s the term I’m looking for I mean the conventional
Meaning of purchase and that is to obtain with some effort because it’ll be a mutual effort yeah we might be a consultant but we’re still going to ask you the questions we’re going to ask you the tough questions to answer for yourself I mean what you want is added perspective
So what you pay for is added perspective we can’t attach strings to you like like Bernie’s uh Weekend at Bernie’s I don’t know why I was thinking some another movie but Weekend at Bernie’s walk you around like Pinocchio and Puppeteer your mouth and have you have
You say things right but we can help you prepare to advocate for yourself to promote yourself after all it’s going to be you who acts on whatever strategy on whatever plan that you create I mean you’ve got your fate in your own hands we just give you perspective
But what would a corporate Cowboy do corporate cowboy might uh entertain one of these recruitment offers and really confirm you know get get some confirmation that 130 is realistic is possible I mean maybe you do want to vet where that 130 000 offer is coming from I mean maybe that company is
Better than the one that you’re at now and by better I mean offering different professional opportunities chance for you to develop your skill set in a manner that that you want in a manner that you desire but if where you want to stay is the company that you are at now you see
Something even though it’s a startup you see it going somewhere you see it growing and you helping it grow you being a a key part a team player within this company I mean that’s something that you want to let the management know about to hear you out your your perspective
Your professional input it matters but you have to uh advocate for yourself and you have to Prime your managers to really listen to you and that takes a a little higher level strategizing a little higher level thinking that we don’t have time for in 30 minutes so
In that case a one to one is in order but I’ll leave you all right there have yourselves a good one reach out to us if fill the need write to us even I mean it’s going to take a little longer some snail mail you can send donations and send gifts
That way too it’s P.O box 3372 Rancho Cordova California 95741 take care of yourselves
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