Mr Vivian. Thank you so much for being here with us. We are officially in a 2024 election year. Uh The caucuses are taking place and we are going to be put into an entire year of campaigning. The primary here in um Republic GOP primary in Georgia is in March and then in November,
We’re going to have our election between whoever the GOP nominee is and President Biden. Um I wanted to talk to you today about voting rights specifically for those black residents here in Georgia. We know that Georgia is the center of the civil rights movement and there was a time
Where black folks could not vote. So can you talk to me a little bit about the history of that time and kind of it’s been a long time now. So we can’t get through all the nitty gritty, but just from that time to where we are now. Yes. So
Originally, nationally voting was only open to white male landowners, which at the time was only 6% of the US population. So 6% of the population determined everything for the country. Uh Eventually voting rights came uh the 15th amendment was passed, that said that, uh,
No one could be denied the right to vote based on their race. However, women still could not vote, uh, anywhere in the country, uh, that got changed eventually 19th amendment. But in um 1877 the state of Georgia initiated its first massive voter suppression to stop African Americans from voting
To stop all people of color. But in particular, at the time, then they were thinking only about African Americans. And at that time, uh, they started with a poll tax which was, you had to pay in order to be able to vote.
Uh, it was a small amount but it was a large amount for the average African American. It also hit, uh, poor whites as well because they couldn’t vote either because they couldn’t afford it. But quite often that was waived. Poll workers when white showed up sometimes would,
Would waive that and they didn’t have to worry about it. Uh, later they did other things like, um, voter, uh, voter suppression with, uh, a, uh, literacy test and keep in mind the education system was not the greatest in the world. Uh, still is not in the south compared to the north.
But, um, if you couldn’t pass the test, you couldn’t vote. And so there were a lot of people, they made the questions purposefully confusing, worded, strangely asked questions that no one in the world would know the answers to. And so, uh, you would more than likely fail the test one wrong answer.
They could then deny you the right to vote. Uh, eventually, uh, actually I was gonna say eventually they got ruled out but actually literacy tests remained on the, on the ballot on the polls, uh, until 64 I wanna say. So, this went on for decades.
Uh, they later came up with the grandfather clause which said that if your, uh, if your grandparents uh could vote before the civil war, then you could vote. If not, you couldn’t vote. Well, of course, African Americans couldn’t vote back then. So that remove that. But still some whites were hit with the,
In particular poor whites and under educated whites were hit with the uh hit with the literacy test and the still the poll test. But when they put the grandfather clause in, you also could vote. Not only if you’re, if uh your grandparents could vote during a time frame before the civil war.
But also if you, um if you were a descendant of a confederate veteran, you could vote. So that then freed up poor whites from the poll tax and the, and the literacy test. So in the state of Georgia in 1900 they created the, what do they call it? The whites only primary.
And the reason why that was so important because not only who could vote, but the laws that could be passed, that was all determined during the primary and if you couldn’t vote then the few that, that were of color that could get passed the poll tax and the,
And the literacy test they now had no say in what the laws would be that could be voted on. And just like when you play the game monopoly, what happens, the first few rounds determines everything. So that’s the way it was with the laws.
Uh, and this went on forever and ever and ever and ever. Uh in 1907, uh Hoke Smith ran for governor in the state of Georgia with his entire platform being he was gonna eliminate or he’s gonna suppress the black vote. Uh He said if I quote this correctly
To make sure that whites have the fullest ability to rule, uh make sure that whites could vote massively and that African Americans could not. So this has been the Georgia thing forever. Even after the law said that, uh that everyone could vote again, the 15th amendment that all men could vote.
Uh They still made sure through the southern states didn’t follow those laws and make sure they put these other barriers in place. Georgia and, and Mississippi were two that were leading the way in that. So this is, this has been our history forever. What part of Georgia history did we see
The right to vote come and then that push back. Can you take us back to that year? So 1965 when the voting rights bill was signed in the law, that was what changed everything. Um, at the same time, you still had threats of, of intimidation,
Especially if you lived in rural areas, people would threaten you, you threaten your life. Uh, employers would deny you, you know, say they would take away your job if you voted. So there was still voter suppression taking place. But legally, uh, 65 voting rights bill changed everything.
And anybody that served on King’s team, uh which included Dad Ct Vivian. They would, he would tell me stories about how uh that was and everybody that served on King’s team, they said that was the pinnacle event of the entire civil rights movement was the voting rights bill.
Without that, you wouldn’t be sitting in this chair right now. Uh We had no rights and so things were denied to. So voting changed everything because when you have the right to vote, excuse me, when you exercise your right to vote, then you have a voice. People pay you attention
And take it seriously. Which is why John Lewis said that, you know, the right to vote was the, was the greatest non violent uh piece of power that we had in the country. Can you talk to me a little bit about the actions from groups like the NAACP the urban league,
Several other grassroots organizations that have try to register folks. Now we have the right. So there are a lot of people that stay home and don’t vote either because they can’t get to the polls. They don’t know how to get registered. What have we seen over the history specifically here in Georgia?
People going out there and trying to get people register. You’ve seen the, the, of course Southern Christian leadership conference in O Kin’s team, uh NAACP Urban League, like you mentioned, also uh Black Greek letter fraternities and sororities Divine Nine were very big on pushing uh voting and doing voter registration drives.
Uh But again, still everything met with opposition for a very long period of time. But um we’ve made some massive progress uh but yet, and still, now we’re watching all that stuff being eroded and taken away from us now in various ways of using some of the old tactics of before.
So SB 202, which was the state bill that was put into place immediately after uh voting rights. A after the state of Georgia flipped uh blue uh with the election of Ossoff and Warnock that then uh was the first piece of legislation that was put into
Place and it put in some of the old policies of the past curtailed voting uh voting precincts of voting locations, uh decrease absentee ballot uh request. The ability to even have an absentee ballot was harder to get and the state could not mail them to you unless you personally requested
Those where before they could just send them out if they wanted to. Um There was a comparison on uh wait times in voting. If you were in a area that was 90% or higher white versus an area that’s 90% or higher people of color. And it was determined that
The average white, wait, the average wait time if the area was 90% or higher, white was uh average of six minutes in the areas that were 90% or higher. Nonwhite people of color, blacks, Latinos, Asians, native Americans, Arabs and et cetera. It was a 51 minute uh average wait time.
And that’s the average, that was sometimes we waited for over an hour or two hours. And so all of those things have been put into place with SB 202. And so that has been a major challenge because it’s going back to the old school rules.
It’s more covert now than it was in the past. It was blatantly over, but now it’s more covert, but it’s still having some major impacts. Now, some would say that these moves are not racially motivated but politically motivated to try to stop Democrats. Um Have you heard this criticism in the community
And just what are your thoughts on that? Well, sure, you, the, the there, there and there and there is some, I think a shred of truth to that. However, if you look, uh I always generally say that there are two parties and I don’t say the Republican or Democratic Party,
I say the white party and the diverse party. And if you look, you’ll see that the Republican Party is well over 90% white and the Democratic Party uh is overwhelmingly diverse. And so it’s not either or, and then both it does the same thing in many ways.
Can you talk to me about a little bit about just our, those civil rights leaders um that like even your father who has worked with so many people. Um, and the, the battle that they fought to get us where we are, what does it look like?
Can you even maybe some of those childhood stories that you? Yeah. So, so I remember, uh there was a movie that came out at one point when I was a little kid. Um, oh, what was it? I think it was from, from, from Selma to Montgomery.
I forget the name of the, of the movie. Exactly that it was. No, not that one. But, but now in the movie Selma, the gentleman wearing the preacher collar on King’s team was playing the part of dad. But, but uh, yeah, I remember when I first saw this movie from Montgomery to Memphis.
That was it from Montgomery to Memphis. Uh There’s a scene where, uh, dad is trying to register people to vote and get hit upside the head with the Billy Club by the sheriff at the time there. And I remember being picked at, in school? Oh, your dad got hit
Head and I’m, like, shut up. You wouldn’t, your parents would have the right to vote if it wasn’t for that. But I, I heard the stories of, of, of threats of violence. Uh, I remember specifically, uh, one day leaving our house, we lived in Chicago for a good period of time.
We’re leaving our house in Chicago and there’s like a, a big bullet sitting on our front porch with a note wrapped around it. And my mother sweeped it up real quick as if you know, so I almost didn’t even notice it and, and just played it off like nothing was going on.
And then years later, as an adult, she explained to me or as a teenager, she explained to me what was going on there. So these, these things happened, I remember on my uh parents uh uh 50th wedding anniversary, my mother and father at the house and others came to visit
Andy Young was there, Juanita Abernathy and so many others. And they started sharing these stories of how houses were bombed and how they were threatened and those kind of things. And I, I, I just, I just remember hearing all of those old stories. So it was,
It was always uh life on the line uh for those who were actively involved and it, and it wasn’t just the people that we all hear about like King’s team and the NAACP and others, there were local pastors who were involved, there were celebrities who were involved.
You even had a good number of white celebrities who got involved and were trying to help to make sure that uh that African Americans and other people of color had the right to vote. So this is, this has been our history forever as a nation and in Georgia, uh heavily. So
The pain that you expla explained and described the violence that you explain and describe, you know, younger generations hear about it sometimes depending on what their education looks like. Um That’s a whole another story that we could talk about. But because our history is being excluded from the history books,
Given the fact that we hear these stories or you can go to the museums or you can see different videos, read books about it. Why do you think there is still um some pause to register for certain people? Not even just the younger generation. There are people
In older generations that aren’t going out to vote and they might have even lived through it themselves. Why is there that pause? But there’s also this apathy that no matter what we do, they’re gonna keep doing the same things is what people feel in many cases.
Well, I voted before it, it had no difference and it, you know, I’m still putting up with the same challenges. I’m putting up with many people have that mindset. But, but again, again, if you don’t vote, you have no real power. Um If, if, if every African American in the South
Who is eligible to vote actually voted, almost all of the South would flip from Republican to Democrat. I mean, so there’s their power. I’m not saying they have to vote one way or the other, but that’s just in AAA measuring stick of how much power is actually there. That’s not being utilized.
But a lot of it is apathy. It’s like it doesn’t matter, they’re gonna do what they wanna do anyway. Why should I vote? Demand this demand that? And I always say, you know, well, you know, people can only do what you allow them to do. And if you really use, utilize your power,
That people put their lives on the line for many died for them to have that, right? If you really utilize that power, you have that power. So if your, if your vote was not important, people would not be in, will not be trying to suppress it.
Do you think that in addition to apathy, there’s an issue in the state of Georgia when it comes to access and education, the access in particular? Uh again, SB 202, put some of those old tactics into place. Uh Now there’s a, there’s a solution to all of that
And that’s hr one and hr four and that is the, the for the People’s Act and the um and the John Lewis, Voting Rights Advancement Act. If those two got passed by the House and the Senate like through the House previously, but then got stopped in the Senate via the Filibuster,
Which also the Filibuster goes back to old racist uh uh uh intentions and motives. But there, there are ways around all of this, but you gotta get politicians to do what they’re supposed to do and those who want to curtail the voting
Are doing a great job of curtailing the vote by going back to the old rules of the past. If you could pull like one, I don’t wanna say life lesson, but just kind of like want something that stuck to you from
The stories that your father told you as a child or just from the civil rights era to this new generation of people. Or once again, like I would say, even folks who have been around and just have not been deep in it.
What is one of those kind of like life lessons as that you would say to them in an effort to motivate them. Here’s why your vote matters. Uh All the things that we have now that we take for granted. If, if, if we did not have the right to vote,
There would not be thriving black middle class communities, especially in the South. Uh There wouldn’t be elected officials who are of color African Americans, Latinos and others. If it were not for the voting rights bill being passed. Uh, it’s, it’s all of those things but,
But the, the story that sticks with me the most was not actually as a child. It was as an adult. So, um, I’m sure you’re familiar with storycorps that, that PBS does, uh, where they have people interview people that they’re either close friends with the relatives of, well, when they were expanding,
It started in New York only then they decided to expand, expand it nationally and they picked certain cities as the test sites. And Atlanta was one of those. So they asked if I would interview my father, uh for a storycorps interview
In Atlanta. So I’d be, be more than happy to, I’d be honored to do that. So I had my questions lined up that I was gonna ask. And so the first question I asked my father, I said, uh, as one of the few remaining living members of Ml King’s executive team,
Uh I know what advice you gave me as what I needed to do to be able to succeed as an African American male in America. My question is, what advice would you give to my sons, your grandsons as to what their generation should do to succeed,
Uh, and thrive as an African American male in America. And his answer totally shocked me. I mean, he says, well, son, I don’t, I don’t know. And I said to myself, you know, you don’t know. I mean, I I’ve never, I had never asked my father any question about race.
And he said, I don’t know, he always had an answer and a good explanation and in depth knowledge of. And he says, I don’t know. And so we’re being recorded. So I’m trying now to like in my mind, help him out.
So I try to throw out what I think the answer is, oh, are you saying that? Because um uh that, that my generation is the first generation of African Americans to have the right to vote uh in the US. And he says,
He says, no son. And this is what he said that shocked me. He says, I’m not too sure that when whites are no longer the majority, that the majority of whites will even want democracy. Now, when he said it, I was totally shocked. I mean, iii I just,
I mean, I was, I was floored and so I’m thinking to myself, dad has lost his mind is what I was thinking at that moment. So then I just said something to, to kind of move on to the next question. And then couple years later, the voting rights bill got gutted,
Uh the preclearance clause, which was the clause that was put into place. It said all states that had a history of uh of suppressing the vote and denying the vote of people of color, um had to get clearance from the federal government before they could change their voting laws that got removed and
When they got removed, it was like, whoa. So then the, about a few days later I was at my dad’s house and I said, do you remember that? He’s sitting in a chair watching TV? And I’m standing next to him.
And I said, I looked down and I said, do you remember when that, uh uh, we did that Storycorps interview and you said you weren’t sure if whites would really, the majority of whites would want the right to vote, want democracy, you know, for everybody. Um when they’re no longer the majority
And without hesitation, he looked up, he says, yeah, I remember and he just kept looking at the TV, said as if to say, I saw this coming, I’m surprised you didn’t. And it’s so we see these things happening now so much to the point where something no one ever fathomed
An actual insurrection attempt at the US Capitol. I mean, that’s, and many are acting as if that never happened or as if those were peaceful protesters. And it’s just not fact. Uh And, and it’s important to understand also that originally, if you go back to
Uh the earlier time of voter suppression of African Americans in the South, in particular, uh there was the Democrats who were doing this, not the Republicans who were doing that. Um The, the blacks pretty much follow um voted Republican because that’s the party of Lincoln, the
The president that got us our rights to vote. It wasn’t until Barry Goldwater ran for president that, uh, he took the party in a different direction that was based on race and that’s when the black vote pretty much started shifting, uh, to the Democrats. So
It’s, it’s not just one party that’s done this, it’s one party that did it for a very long period of time and not another party that’s doing it now, just more covertly than overtly. Well, it’s not even all that covert. Now, what, what’s your message?
And this will be my final question to you, to those folks um, who, regardless of who they vote for. Um Why should they register? Why should they go out there come if they’re Republican in March to vote in the primary, if they are whatever they vote for, um,
In November, why should they go out and do that even in the local elections? Because we don’t just have national elections and, and you’ll find that African Americans vote far more likely during the time when there’s a national election than they do when there’s local election. But all politics is local. You know,
So all of these laws that get put into place on a local level have massive impacts on the national outcomes. But my message is you have the right. You have the power utilize it. Do not sit back and allow your power to not be used because you would then be taken for granted,
No matter what race you are, no matter what gender you are when, when you’re, when you have a right and you don’t utilize it. People don’t value your opinions, utilize your power, uh everybody and for, for African Americans and other people of color in particular, I would say
That people literally put their lives on the line to make sure you could have that right? Why would you let that bloodshed and death go unmerited? Take advantage of that Mr Vivian. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. It was my pleasure. I appreciate it.
Uh Thank you very much.
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