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Episode welcome to the oldfashioned Masonic podcast where we talk all things free masonry while drinking in oldfashioned I’m Brian I’m Mark reader so you met mark on a previous episode when we talked about his legacy as he’s working his way up the Grand Lodge line
In Kansas so today I’m going to put uh mark on the spot a little bit uh Mark talked about um on on his episode one of his duties early on he was put on the membership committee and membership is near and dear to his heart obviously a lot of ours heart heart as
Well um because without a good quality membership program we’re in trouble we are right we are so I’m going to ask some questions borderline controversial but that’s okay we can we can do what we want on the podcast so I’m going to ask you this question there’s been an old
Adage an old saying for a 100 years well let’s before we go to that the old school way the rumor was men had to ask three times before we let them join the fraternity we’ve all heard this right we have if that was true and maybe in some
Cases it was true and it was bastardized might have been Tradition at Lodges at times did that screw it up a little bit did we miss some people I’m yes I think we did so if we had a magic wand we’d want that to go away forever yes fair right so the next
Transition it’s the 2b1 ask one we understand the context of it right sure we do yeah um but obviously all fraternal organizations are having some sort of either it’s an identity crisis it’s a joining there’s just a lot of competition with life there is so we’ve talked about it on other
Episodes and so I’m going to ask you this question I don’t want to say full-on recruitment because we don’t want to go there but what should we from a membership standpoint what should we be doing differently to make sure this is around for our grandkids well one I think if you do
Have someone that within your circle of acquaintance that you you someone you know sure have a you should plant the seed plant the pump whatever yeah however you want to word that but you have to be willing to sh you know plant that seed but let
It grow on its own right you’re not forcing it down you don’t want to turn into salesman and we’re hey you know here’s the signed petition that’s not what I mean by that I mean by hey I I really have I really see value in being
A Mason and the things I and be able to share with them why you like being a Mas you know why you see value in it and just let them know hey I think you’d be a good Mason I agree um I think um you
Know I’m and I’m product of this my dad and my uh grandfather never told me hey I we think you’d enjoy this they never planted that seed but and I never felt this way that I wasn’t good enough to be a member okay but I think I think some
Young men get that perception because well D never asked me to join you know Grandpa never said hey I think I’d be they might maybe they don’t think I’m worth it they might not think I’m good enough hear what he’s saying folks and and especially in our the younger
Generation that has nothing to do with it yeah they were just they were just living by that old tradition of and it’s not it’s not even a bylaw no old Urban myth code crap whatever that younger that younger person that younger man doesn’t have the maybe not have the
Selfworth yet to well goly Dad didn’t think I’m good enough for that that could have been the perception and then and then once they get life happens it’s too late so let’s go let’s let’s stay on this first topic yet so we got a circle of friends the first thing you have to
Do correct me if I’m wrong you as a Mason and a man has have to carry yourself a certain way if you want people to join and and at the end of the day I’m going to tell you this most people think when I say what’s the brand
Of masonry well it’s the square encompasses Brian no it’s not it’s you it’s you it is definitely how how you act in the community and with others and how you treat others yeah is is they need to see masonry in that if you go and and look we’re you’re going to go
Buy a car somewhere if you’re going to go buy a car and the salesperson that approaches you is a total tool right you’re going to say I’m never going to that dealership they ex they’re not going to remember that it was just the the salesman that was not meeting
Expectations it’s that brand right that person it’s that dealership so first of all we have to be uphold we’re we’re supposed to be doing this anyway guys but we have to be people that they that you know I would want to like what’s he
Part of I’d like to be part of that so that’s one right that is and people don’t remember what you said they remember how you make them feel I agree so it’s not just the words you say you have to truly be vested in them and show value in them and mean
It and that’s how they’re going to maybe really think about that seed you just planted hopefully it grows that’s true so so let’s let’s go back to that so let’s assume we’re representing oursel in the way that a Mas should and we’re representing in the brand okay so
We’re buddies we’re Pals we’ve known each other in certaint number of years okay and you know I’m a Mason because I talk about I mean I go to meetings I go to whether it’s Lodge York right Scottish right Shrine whatever thing we’re involved in we’re all well he’s
Must be doing something Masonic tonight right okay that happens right yeah so in in your vision of this would this be appropriate so hey hey can we do something tonight oh anyway we can do it on Thursday I’ve got lodge tonight on Wednesday no problem no problem yeah
Yeah we can do that Thursday hey by the way you know you know I do a lot of stuff with the Masons yeah it you ever thought about it you’ve never really asked me many questions about it is there is has it ever piqued your interest is that a fair plant I
Think that’s a fair plant that’s exactly what I Invision it’s not like hey I’m in the Mas you want to join you need to do this right now right it’s hey have you thought about this I see back or and if it’s an event if you’re attending an event when you’re having that
Conversation that they can attend open okay hey hey won’t you come with me tonight yeah obviously your Wednesday’s going to be clear you want me to do something hey W you come with me I mean they don’t they they can meet you there they can enjoy the camaraderie that we
That happened before the meeting or after the meeting doesn’t they don’t have to go in Lodge yet but they can come um I I’m actually my son hasn’t really showed any interest in it but I ask him if he wants to go with me anytime I’m going to an event that that
I’m just asking hey you want to go one day he’ll say yes yeah I I hope so yeah hope so so let’s let’s go with that so lodges a lot of lodges that that I know of they’ll have a meeting at 7:00 on a day well before that they usually get
Together and eat whether it’s at their Lodge they meet somewhere they usually some sort of social time before and or there’s a social time after afterward should we not if let me ask this question if you’re not as a lodge if you’re going there just to do a damn
Meeting you’re you’re you’re killing yourself you’re missing something you need to do something before or after and if we’re doing something before or after should that not be the time of hey you know I’m in part of this but before I have a lodge meeting I know you wanted
To go grab a bite to eat want to go meet some of my my Masonic friends yeah come eat with us okay Russ talked about this on a podcast that we released in November about we challenged everyone to do a social R Russ Brown is notorious
For he’ll bring his what he calls his church friends and his Mason friends together and I know I know most of his church friends and I would argue that most of his church friends know his Mason friends and Russ never says hey why aren’t you joining but now they’re
Getting to see all of us they see that interaction yeah they see that Brotherhood that we experience in those events you can’t men of men of good character they’ll crave that they’ll see value in that well it goes back I truly believe that I agree too and and I we had a
Little conversation off camera most Good Men Travel in circles with good men that’s what helps them be good men that right so we’re not saying this we’re not saying all out recruitment start today run go ask everyone we’re saying that we could be doing a better job of planting
A seed priming the pump uh fing to open events especially of men that you know that you have you’ve known for years and you know they’re good men right we’re if we just did that we would we would grow I agree well you know Jeff saer uh
You know he he pushed membership for years and there was the slogan was that just one because if everyone were to replace themsel right you never have a membership problem if you were to replace yourself because you have to do that cuz at the end of the day we’re
Fighting the death curve I mean that’s reality and a lodge has to have a plan to make Masons correct and I’m sure if you said in most lodges most lodges today probably don’t have a plan they’re Pro they they think they do but they they they want to they want to make more
Masons they want their Lodge to grow but wanting it and having a plan and executing the plan is is a long ways apart so Mark Mark’s doing Masonic at at a lodge in Witchita tonight if we can find an organic way this is my home Lodge where he’s
Going so this is fine too do we say Hey you know we just did an episode and do we CH say what’s your plan do we do we challenge it I’m going to touch a little bit on some of the things I normally present on um some information that’s
Available to us through Mor okay about where your Lodge is trending and how it looks and what your past history is and using that data to with your membership committee to grow to put a plan together U I’m going to numbers I’m briefly touch but I’m I’m really not presenting
Tonight on Grand Lodge programs right I’m just going to kind of skim over the things I normally talk about yeah but it might it might spark some interest because if you don’t know how many if if the lodge the members sitting there tonight have no idea how many Masons we
Raised last year that’s a problem well how do you know where you’re going what’s your road map we have right we have no road map and that has nothing to do with any of the other things that come into membership but the lodge itself we have to make Masons if we want
To be here for the next Generation we have to make Masons I agree would you argue or would you disagree for years when people were just joining joining joining blue LOD Shrine and all that you could be Reckless nothing matters but we never treated it like a business from
The standpoint of the road map is your business plan sure and if if you want your business I sell X widget if you don’t have the road mapap to how you sell that widget you’re dead you’re you’re going to die off if you don’t have that road map to how to communicate
Your widget to your customers you’re dead right your perspective members you’ve got to be here you’ve got to be on paper you’ve got to be on print you’ve got to be able to appeal to the masses right you do you do definitely we’re not we’re not running de as a
Business like we should in some some standpoints and and that’s something that I think across not just in the Kansas jurisdiction that’s in masonry across the United States not just masonry all fraternal organizations I might argue cor correct they don’t they don’t have a plan that we talk about it
We but it it it’s not and at the and that’s I think the biggest problem is Grand lodges can’t fix this they can bring tools to the table but it takes the members of your Lodge rolling up their sleeves and getting to work it just does it if that doesn’t happen you
Know I I know a lot of people well Grand Lodge does this or grand the grand jurisdictions across the United States do not make Masons right they don’t even even when you talk about jurisdictions that do the alternative paths y That’s not their lodges bring those people to
Those events yeah L they’re joining that LOD they’re not joining the grand jurisdiction so right that’s true it it takes Brothers at the local Lodge rolling up their sleeves having a plan and then putting in the work agree and I I’ll go back to something that most warville Stoops said when he was
Grandmaster um and again I always say you know Stoops was pretty controversial but he was he’s very calculated he knows what he’s doing I liked his style um a lot of people didn’t get it but there’s one thing that he kept paring that I agree with you are Grand Lodge so when
Somebody says well why is Grand Lodge not doing this why aren’t you voting for it put a bylaw in why aren’t you voting why we are Grand Lodge we make that grand LOD doesn’t make Masons we make the Masons we we Grand LOD does not make bylaws either bylaws come from
The craft right to our annual communication to either pass or not pass so Mike Stoops we are Grand Lodge and those listening you are your Grand Lodge whatever jurisdiction you’re in you can you can set it home sit on your Duff and talk smack and do nothing about it or
You can make a bylaw change you can get involved in your committee you can do a podcast and challenge people there’s lots of other things that we can do to help but sitting back and mumbling to your people I don’t go to lodge because of EX fix the problem you can you can
Break a cycle right now you can and yeah theore Roosevelt having great we actually had it in Lodge the other night we read his um part of his speech um the man in the arena yep it’s easy to be the guy throwing the stone yep talking smack
On the guy that’s actually trying to do the best he can get in the arena roll up the sleeves and get to work get if even if you go in and take take the L the first time you you want to put the program and it’s just an absolute turd
Right but you know what at least you got in and did something I talk about the Discover fre masonry events the first one you have will not be a success Fair that’s okay sure don’t stop doing them right but just do your after action review why why where did we what can we
Do better what cuz even if it’s a home run you can do better right right even if you if you got five petitions that right you need to you need to always just keep doing them don’t give up don’t give up because well we did that in the
Past it didn’t work H try again try again it’s worth it our fraternity is worth trying 100% would you argue the membership membership is a really it can be a really easy fix if we deploy let’s have a few more open things and we just plant some seeds we all know good men
And if we just Target we can all get one person but listen I don’t think you’re promoting we don’t care about quantity we want the quality good men I would rather I I hear I hear that a lot that we want quantity over quality it kind of
Chaps me a little bit we do want quality there’s a lot of good men out there a lot of great men out there that will make our fraternity better and if we come at it from that perspective that we want quality over quantity we’re limiting ourselves with that
Statement there there’s a we don’t you that is a very true statement yeah I just don’t like to lead with that sometimes we want just just lead with the fact that we want quality men you know what leave the numbers out of it because I’ve been on that as well I just
Said it you know quality but you’re right we want quality men and as long as we’re targeting that the problems will start to solve let’s not limit ourselves by trying to attach it to a number that’s fair so that’s fair I just got checked boys and girls I like it though
But but you’re right um anything else on the membership standpoint that you know is something just trivial little we’re not saying we’re turning a big ship we’re slowly just tweaking dials here we’re Tune in Tokyo right we are it it it but and I attended a membership and
Marketing um you know I’m in the shrine and I attended a membership and marketing conference in Fort Worth last spring okay um it is very it very very good event but they talked about there’s really no one magic pill you know we can we can talk about all the different
Things but there’s not one magic pill it takes all of it coming together to keep keep our fraternity going forward so our grandkids which is important to me now at my stage of Life same this fraternity is around for them and it keeps going and going and going consistency is key
Too um don’t give up just cuz don’t give up I well I I invite I asked him to come and he didn’t come okay right right don’t so as in a different way yeah when you have the next one and buy him again maybe he was busy oh the life happens
You know there’s other things but consistency be don’t don’t don’t let that ego get in our way dudes and Os because he didn’t show up when they asked him to right well I’m never going to ask him again I invited him once come on man right come
On yeah give him another chance how many times do we have good leaders in lodges that you’ve ask and they didn’t do it but then they finally came back around they ended up being Stellar what’s the difference it’s not no n timing it’s timing it’s timing and and just because
Right now may not be their time their time may come and you planted that seed it may take 5 years for that tree to grow right but it might grow right and everyone we we talked about off camera uh moille Dar Darren Kellerman uh one of my favorite Grand masters of Kansas he
Was grandmas with young kids we probably wouldn’t have tried to take a bite of that because he he’s a way better man than us for many reasons but I probably would have said No at the time but everything happens for a reason but it was unbelievable because we talked about
We’d always see the kids around and it was just part of part of Darren I mean I shared the very first Daniel communication there with him his kids were at our table and and he was up doing his thing and it was great you want to talk about somebody who
Understood his charge he you know he just like you know what I know I know what it says I’ll just I’ll just blend these together a little bit and and I thought first of all again huge fan of Darren Kellerman I think he is just an unbelievable guy it really reminded me
Of my folks dragging me to events same type they they never blinked an eye about taking us yeah we we figured it out somebody set out with us made sure we stayed and and Mom and Dad did their thing here’s the interesting thing that
I think would be so cool when if his son decides to become a Mason how many of us have seen them since seen him since he was a little boy wouldn’t that be a that could be a packed house I would think so that could be a packed house Darren no
Pressure Darren listen if your son decides to be a Mason I don’t care about Mark send me the email I I want to be there I will make it happen because I just think that that that was so cool to see that that that that little boy
Running around well and being a being a son and my dad being amazing yeah yeah yeah you get it I get it Darren would would yeah you know what I think there won’t be a lot of dry eyes in the house oh no when they let when they let my dad
Do that part of yeah yeah yeah yeah that’s pretty prettyy special pretty special so so uh I think that’s what we have so we would membership we’re going to close with this it doesn’t take a lot you can prime the pump it’s not recruiting and damn it
If you care about this fraternity being around yes and you run in a circle of good if you don’t run in a circle of Good Men I don’t know what in the world you’re doing fix that problem fix it right now right and you may say well all
My friends are masons they’re not all your friends are not Masons and you also have acquaintances that you might work with too that’s right might be coworkers it might be a coworker you may run in a circle of Masons there’s somebody that you may work with that would you could
Plant that seed for sure represent the brand that means yourself so govern yourselves accordingly we need to represent oursel to represent the brand because one guy can screw it up for the rest of us so let’s uh membership membership’s pretty easy so let’s just talk about it right talk about it cheers
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