Echoes of Masonic Values Fostering Civility and Unity Today

Hey Chris yeah Fred what’s a Mason that’s a really good question Fred you’ve reached the internet’s home for all things masonry join Chris and I as we Plum the depths of our ancient craft from the common gavel to the trout nothing is off the table so grab your tools and let’s get to work this is on the level all right Chris

Hello woohoo where’s the where’s the holler where’s the there it is there it is oh my gosh sorry you ask for it I asked for it it’s my fault I get it I get it um wow uh yeah what on Earth um well today’s a big day for us today is a

Big day for us yeah it really is uh we we are able to write a terrible wrong yeah here uh today atoning for the sins and ignorances of our past for our sins and ignorance of the past mine ESP especially uh oh it’s a it’s a team

Thing it’s a team that’s we we fail together only one of us three is innocent in this group you can hear him laughing that hear him in the backgound you know who it is it’s most most worful Jeffrey s Foster yes yes morning good morning good

Morning sir and um many of our fans uh don’t know that during Grand Lodge communication uh most worful Foster was one of our first she was the reason we were doing these interviews absolute reason for it and of course uh the sound engineer me uh neglected to uh push uh

Save when I closed out his particular file and of course the machine did exactly what I told it to do it erased it yeah so uh it was gone and we could not find it so we sure spent months looking everywhere to try to see if we

It was like and and then and then Chris and I are like well now what do we do we have to above apologize we’re going to have to get a hold of him and tell him how dumb we really are yeah yes in 20 years you’ll find it it’ be the Lost

Recording yeah there you go that’s right that’s right the Lost recordings of on the level with Fred and Chris right the original unedited no no I I uh and we appreciate you coming in being a a huge sport yeah absolutely huge sport for us

So uh go ahead Chris yeah I mean we we interviewed you at Grand Lodge on on the first day I believe yeah it was definitely the first day yep yep yeah it was our second interview actually ha right worful ha was first yeah and then most worshipful after after that and

Then we said oh we know what we’re doing and really didn’t know we had we were so confident absolutely no but you know that was such an awesome experience cuz I didn’t really know the weight of what we were doing at the time we just wanted to interview people and like tell their

Story and talk about who they are But realize later it was awesome so many people in the state we know the names we know the titles but we don’t really know the person um you know a lot of people in the State uh are afraid to go to a

Grandmaster at a visit and shake their hand and strike up a conversation and so all they know is the the grandmaster’s words they get read at the uh visits and whatever The Grandmaster says at the visit if they go uh so I think this just

Has turned out to be an awesome way for especially the members of Florida to get to know the Grand Lodge people the men behind the jobs absolutely yeah that’s right it was so eye openening to talk to everyone we talked to and like I was just shocked every time like wow this

You aren’t who I thought you were going to be right right yeah you guys are like real people yeah real people yeah and I can add to that yeah go ahead yes absolutely I don’t think I don’t think I know any past Grand Masters or upand cominging grand Masters that their

Feelings would be hurt if you didn’t come up and shake their hand you know that’s one of the only reasons you know we’re we’re nobody special we’re just at the front of the pack right now and you know pretty soon we’re going to be at the back of the

Pack with everybody else and you know that that makes us one of you know a brother so there should be no reason why anybody doesn’t want to come up and Shake uh a Grand Lodge officer’s hands because we’re not we’re not anything special we’re just we’re just brothers

In a position yeah that’s and I found that to be absolutely true uh we just had our uh Grandmaster visit over at Sarasota sahib Shrine yeah and um you know I I was feeling that same feeling uh most worful that that you were talking about going up and and you know

Talking to like a as a brother you felt hesitant I maybe I shouldn’t embarrass myself or whatever is going through your mind right and uh and of course our current Grandmaster most worful Bishop um was was just so gracious and and like you said he’s just a regular guy um I

Can tell he’s the kind of guy and I would just venture to say uh most worshipable Foster that he’s he’s probably kind of cut along the same cloth maybe as as you are where very direct um you can tell and I can tell too by talking to you as well postoral

That you guys are really direct which I for one absolutely appreciate yes um because I I would assume it’s from your guys’s military background is where that com from sure sure yeah they learn not ex I know that our our current grandmas loves it when you come up and

Ask him for $ five just just go up and ask for5 inside baseball there we you that that’s as good as done we will definitely do that we’re we’re hoping to interview him I know a setup when I hear one that’s a setup big time yes a setup

I’m I’m willing to fall right into just for fun yeah absolutely we’re going to hopefully interview him uh and uh and uh the first lady uh when on their first visit down to the uh the shrine home um down to the our uh the what am I trying

To say the the I know I it went right out of your head I saw it you had it and it just left anyways the uh the Masonic Home thank you Masonic Home in uh in uh geez coffee in St Petersburg so we’ll interview him then that’s one of the

First things we’re going to do uh of course is ask him uh if we could borrow $5 immediately oh yeah sure on the air get his get his real reaction to that we’ll see how that goes curious to see what that’s going to be

Now but his wife o Odessa she had such a interesting like situation this year I I’m sure you’ve been to some of their visits right most worful I have yeah she she printed out bios of every member in our district uh that is in the Masonic Home

And she gave a speech about the people and how she wants to do things for the people not the floors not the walls but the people and it really struck me I think she got like tear choked up a bit when she was I mean there’s absolutely

Some well they so they live real close to the Masonic Home I mean they’re they’re in that they live right there in Clearwater which is right outside St Pete so she has the opportunity to spend a lot of time at the home and she’s she’s become very

Uh what am I trying to say very very close with a lot of the the residents of the home right right yeah and you know um I’ve done a little bit of work in in different you know homes and retirement villages and it’s it’s uh it’s addictive

You go in there and those people are so they just they just want to they just want to sit down and have and and talk with any about anything be engaged and when you do that I don’t care who you are when you do that it just it changes you so I

Can only imagine her going in there she seems like a woman with a big heart to begin with who goes in there yeah yeah so she’s been totally captivated by it and I’m for one I’m really glad because um you know we we we hear all these

Things about the Masonic Home this that and the other and all this stuff and all us men are trying to fix the walls and paint the ceilings and now here comes the First Lady goes in there and brings that you know hey these are just I just

Want to help the people and I just as soon as she started talking about she was she was pretty emotional about it fairly emotional about it when she was talking about it so so was the whole crowd we all just were like you know what okay fine that emot there’s

Probably some conversations that need to be happen that need to happen about the system but she’s right there are people in there who are that we’re obligated to love and take care of man and I I just love that direction so that interview is going to be really good I’m really

Looking forward to it I think when more people hear that they’ll get a lot more money for the for the cause this year because it’s just such a people are going to connect with that message big time yeah I’m I’m resident to give up anything um Masonic anywhere um I know

That like for us for instance the Sarasota sahib Shrine uh that building has been there for a long long time and they really struggled they almost lost the thing and fact on the verge yeah the fact that they’re on the ascendancy and actually actually out of the red and

Into the black and making making definite progress in the right direction it it I feel the same way about that Masonic Home it’s been there forever it’s ours we’re obligated to take care of it I would be I would be it would take a lot to convince me to go any

Other direction but keep that thing right where it is well the sahib shrine was about to lose everything and and they didn’t get an influx of members they didn’t get Angel Investors the leadership changed that’s it yeah the leadership changed sometimes that’s what it takes yeah yes sir absolutely and

That’s a great Point Chris that’s exactly right leadership can change everything good leadership strong leadership that is lifting everyone around them up right everyone starts to rally and you get momentum and that momentum solves a lot of problems yeah that’s right well most worshipful tell

Us um what what’s been going on in in uh so far in your year um how is retirement yeah how’s how’s retirement going so retirement is great um I do miss you know traveling around but um I don’t travel as much as I used to

Uh I kind of stay in the background I I try to to to limit myself you know to what I’m what I’m actually going to do um actually I have a house that was neglected for four or five years so I’m I’m in the process of trying to re redo all that

We’ll pray for you brother yeah I appreciate it I need it um I’m I’m getting more involved in local events you know right here in North Florida Scottish wri um other appendant bodies just just trying to you know take time and and do things that that I want

To do not that I need to do yeah You’ certainly earned that so uh you yourself graduated high school in 1981 is that right correct correct okay and then you went basically right out of high school into uh the Navy yep I uh I took the summer off and a matter

Of fact in uh 10 days 42 years ago I believe I showed up at boot camp wow what was boot camp like for you I never went into the military so me neither I’m always like you know you always like regret the path not taking I

Started having kids at 19 I didn’t have time for the military but looking back I wish I would have maybe taken that path first because everyone that I meet that is a military person is just different than the rest of us yeah that’s right that’s right I really admire some of the

Traits well you get you know you get thrown into a different um a different culture a different uh environment than what most people are used to because in a military environment you’re getting input from you know different people from all over the country so there’s just not one uh one social environment it’s

You’re you’re getting it from all over the place so you develop your own and and most people don’t get to see that yeah yeah that’s right yeah and and you’re at a young age you’re put into you know difficult situ situations um you know and confronted by other personalities and responsibilities

Right away you know like you said you were right out of high school um at the ripe old age of 18 there you are you know in a gigantic system yeah you know and then you have to had to learn to deal with it and to to the discipline

And all that where where me at the ripe old age of 18 I didn’t know what I was doing or where I was going you know so yeah it’s absolutely I and for me it’s definitely a Mis calling I regret I sat um at 19 years old I sat in the Navy

Recruiters uh office and was was ready to go and I backed out like a coward at the last minute and I’ve always always bitterly regretted that but anyway that’s me we’re not here to interview Fred when we see when we see Navy you were in Naval Aviation right did you actually fly

Planes or were you just no I did not fly um I started out working and then uh through a series of uh consequence quences I guess I’d say uh I ended up uh taking care of log books and um aircraft mainus discrepancies and and uh it was pretty

Much an office job for the last 18 17 years of my Naval Aviation career so yeah so administrative uh in there and that’s probably why you made leadership early age probably why you um you were uh as Grandmaster um you know that’s probably those skills were probably quite handy uh inside inside

That realm absolutely I get that but uh on paper you have the textbook life so you served in the military you got out and graduated C LA from Jones college in 2001 yep y yep I uh I figured out early in my Naval career that the best way to get a college

Education was to let them pay for it so that is true it is expensive there were a lot of late nights you know going to work and then going to school and coming home and getting up and doing it all over again but oh you had to work

Through college worth it what kind of work were you doing at that time I was in the Navy yeah oh you were doing okay right right yeah so I would work during the daytime and and went to school at night yeah and what did you go to school for

So when I first started um attending colle College I had the notion of getting an aviation degree so I went to em riddle um and then I I transfer Duty stations and uh I got involved with a couple guys couple Shipmates of mine that were heavily involved in the early stages of

Computers and uh I changed my minor or I changed my major rather to computer information so I was within I think 10 or 15 credits of graduating with a bachelor’s degree in aviation uh maintenance when I changed and had to pretty much start all over again so I’ve got a lot of

Credits you you were mainly interested in computer science right I was uh got involved with a couple guys that were you know early computer users and it just took off from there it seems like your whole life was busy at that kind of time in your life because you were in

The military you’re getting an education you actually got married at some point in that time frame right um oh yeah I got married two years into my Naval career right and then you had which was probably one of the big deciders of why I continued on instead of getting out to

Support your new wife yeah she she liked to have a a supper on the table you know so right yeah that was that was a way I could do it well it’s you know it’s it’s true when a young man takes you know takes a wife

And starts a family at a young age man it it tends to cause that that young man to step up you know and to it’s a new take responsibility you know it’s it’s that’s why uh throughout history young men got married young you know because

It was one of the ways to to get them to focus you know nowadays the average the average man is getting married in his late 30s you know and it’s right I think it’s working out all that good but that’s a conversation for another show I would assume

Yeah but then it wasn’t long after you had a son I did a son he was January of 89 January of 89 that makes him Aquarius probably I’m I’m not up on my as okay that’s whole another so that was all I mean you were

You were a young man when you were doing all that you’re in the military you’re getting an education you’re married now you have a kid that’s a lot of responsibility early in life and is that something you kind of always wanted or did that just happen to you um I

Think you know I think the good Lord just said you know he put things in my life when I needed them right uh I I don’t you know I yes our our son was planned you know I I was in the Navy you go from sea duty to shore duty to Sea

Duty to shore Duty and uh you know Holland and I had discussed that I didn’t want to have a child and immediately go out to see uh I needed to be around to help out so we were getting ready to come off a sea Duty and go to shore Duty and I knew

I was going to be around for three years so you know we kind of planned that out and uh I think it worked out well yeah yeah yeah my my youngest son was a Submariner um and uh he’s eight years he did eight years in there and he he he

Was he was torn between it you know because you know those guys are out for three months straight oh yeah um and under the water and um he loved it but he wanted to have a family and um and he knew that that’s not he didn’t really

Want to you know have that there’s a lot of guys who are submariners who do have that where they wives you know the picture of the wives sitting at the dock waiting for the boat to come in uh he didn’t want he didn’t want that so

That’s why he he got out um at eight years and started his family he’s actually he’s he just got married uh two years ago they’re just getting ready to have their first kid so uh same thing you know it’s just uh it’s that I don’t know man it’s that disciplined life I’m

I’m so grateful that he decided to go into the military like he did like I’m sure you are you know that it it gave you all of those advantages you know that that a lot of us you know didn’t take advantage of so what what what do

You see um most worful um where where are we at currently um you know as far as masonry goes um you know what’s uh what’s the what’s the good and the bad what do you what do you see what’s what’s what’s positive of late you know

So far we’re what eight months uh into the the New Year here um on a Grand Lodge I’m not asking you to you know come kind of but I’m kind I kind of want to know from a past grandmas current you know past grandmas um where what do you see what’s the

Positive what’s what’s going on that’s that’s good that’s positive about uh our craft so you know with with everything uh there’s always Cycles nothing is ever just steady right um everything goes to a cycle and and Freemasonry is is no exception we go through Cycles we go we go up and

We go down and um currently I see Freemason on an update myself um I wonder how they got on an uptick yeah maybe worshipful Foster had something to do with that right well so when I was Grandmaster you know every Grandmaster wants to go into office and

Say all right how am I going to leave my mark on the fraternity right right um there are some that that say I’m going to do this and this is what I’m doing and then there’s a lot of others that say you know what are we

Going to do so when I became grandm I got the grand line and and we during my Deputy grandm year as we were traveling around we we talked about it we we interviewed quite a few brothers and of course we all know that ear Chris uh

Rose to the top because he had a program that he was doing um in his lodge where he was using social media to get the word out about Freemasonry right yeah and I thought I was like wow that is so brilliant because you know if you look in a

Newspaper back in the 50s 40s 30s lodges took out there were little places in the newspaper that said hey our lodge is meeting on this night and we have a stated meeting and we’re going to do some business or you know and back in those days that was how people got

Information was through a printed newspaper now it’s not so much I mean everything is pretty much digitized everything is online yeah um yeah whole even newspapers you know very I I don’t you know when I was a kid one of the jobs that I had was a a a newspaper boy

Delivered newspaper make good money doing that for years yeah I don’t know that anybody ever does that anymore there’s a there’s a car that drives by early in the morning at my house and throws newspapers to selected houses out of their car as they drive by yeah yeah

And I I got I think it’s the New York Times will do that still um it won’t be much longer yeah now of course you know the New York Times as it goes flying out of the car will break your driveway you know because it’s hu huge as it is I

Mean that’s a gigantic waste of paper in my op not slowing down right they’re just zipping by and throwing them out right but but anyways yeah your point is well taken that um you know you you you you helped uh spearhead that that the new the new medium you know for for

Reaching people uh was digital you know and it’s it’s a it’s a digital medium that um you know that you you were instrumental in helping Chris bring that uh to the Forefront you know before that he I think that’s the other way around I think Chris was was uh instrumental in

Bringing that to the craft because through his efforts of you know holding classes and you know at first he held him in person and then he went and had uh Zoom uh right informational classes and you know he spent a lot of time and and I’m gonna you know I’m GNA put Chris

Out there you know he spent a a lot of time with individual lodges helping them develop their own program and show them what to do uh and a lot of it if they followed his his advice and his his instruction I’m going to say they were pretty successful on it and and I’m

Gonna I’m gonna I’m going to blow the horn of a lodge here in in my area uh cable lodge number 116 in in green Co Springs Florida they were on a Down kick they were they were really uh they were struggling um they got a couple Brothers

In there and one of them is Earl hegen Botham brother Earl who oh we know him went to Chris’s went to Chris’s class and and learned what to do and you know the man with the most infectious smile in Freemasonry oh yeah Earl is uh he’s

He’s very unusual and and a great Mason and a great brother but uh you know he took that on and you know yes Grand Lodge incentivized it we said hey if you go and spend you know this amount of money uh we’ll reimburse you so the LOD

Didn’t really have any uh there wasn’t a downside for elij to try this you really gave them no reason to say no every reason to say we’ll give it a shot correct and brother Earl took that on and you know the last time I talked to

Him he had uh I think eight brothers in the PIP line uh going through getting their degrees to become members of that LOD and it it’s been a great program and one of the things that uh you know I don’t want people to forget is that you still

Have to guard the west gate right that’s right just because somebody can fog a mirror doesn’t mean they’re going to make a great Mission so this program just brings them to the door and once they get to the door the lodes need to to weed those people out

That that are not going to make good Masons and not let them join but I mean I I I I could be wrong but if I see an uptick in membership because now people are starting to realize that you know there there are a lot of young men out

There right now that are searching for what Freemasonry could offer them absolutely yeah and they don’t know where to look no they don’t even know we exist they’ve never heard questions to ask so you know when you put that out there and you bring them to your front

Door you know that gives you a great opportunity to to do what we’re supposed to do make good men better yeah that’s right well even I won’t take credit I won’t take credit for that because uh you you came uh when you before you were uh The Grandmaster uh it was the year

Before I think you were there you came to our district and I don’t know if you said this at all of the visits but you said something that I there were two of us that stood up and gave you standing ovation and I’m sure you didn’t even

Notice but we were like so happy to hear your message he was it was a difficult time for our country there this is I think the beginning of the severe division we were starting to have and people were really drawing lines in the sand online and being pretty uh

Aggressive in the way they were talking yeah and um it was really frustrating because I see a lot of Masons that uh have their names on Trestle boards and you know are known to be Masons they’re showing it all over their profiles on social media and they would say things

That could be pretty offensive to people and you know as a leader representing Freemasonry uh people that aren’t Masons don’t know if they’re speaking for the fraternity or themselves as a person so it gets really confusing and you stood up and said hey do me a favor just just spend 10 seconds

Thinking before you hit submit you’re posting on social media maybe just don’t say everything that comes into your head maybe think about a different way to phrase it or be a little more you know friendly and think about brotherly love and that resonated with me because I was

Really struggling at the time with what I was seeing yeah from me my own Brothers oh well and and that’s you know that that’s where that really struck a court with me me is I would you know I I have a a m a maternal brother an actual

Blood brother and I would never go up to him and say some of the stuff that I was reading online yeah I would never say it to him in his face and and I’m pretty sure that the people that were writing that stuff would never say that to somebody’s face especially their brother

Oh absolutely sister or you know whatever but you know they were willing to put that out there online and have their brothers read that stuff and you know then then you got to try to go sit in Lodge and you know there’s a good reason why you don’t discuss religion or

Politics in lodge because it is very divisive yeah and it just brings turmoil so for us to live in peace and Harmony you just you don’t do stuff like that right and I that’s that’s the message I was trying to get across to to brothers and and and to a point I think

It it worked either that or yeah people people stopped letting me read their Facebook pages no no I think you’re right I think people took notice because you’re such a like everyone loved you uh you just have a personality that exudes some kind of like it’s a leadership

Quality is it it’s like an authentic honest like you said straight shooting person and that is something I think everyone’s drawn to and when they’re in a leadership role when they feel like get I think it was I think it was just I brought it to their attention hey you

Know you’re you’re you’re possibly creating a bigger divide and and they thought about it and and agreed and said yeah yeah yeah there’s definitely a a new a new culture uh within certainly within our lodge of um of acceptance um and you know that that you know trying

To figure out how we can best work and agree um attitude um we in our lodge have uh we we have a kind of a culture that says that you know you can talk about anything you want in Lodge as long as it’s done with gentleness and respect

For the other person that you’re talking to and and that has kind of caught on and we had a uh we had a um an esoteric Discussion Group a couple of months ago where the hottest topics of religion and politics and you you name sexual orientation sexual it came up all the in

A group of uh I think um six of our of our lodges in our district were represented there several sitting worshipful Masters and even a couple of EAS in the room and we had this great flowery uh conversation about the hottest topics that at the end of the

Day everybody remained Brothers every no one was offended or it was a real conversation it real it was amazing it was a conversation yeah and and I I I caution anybody listening who thinks yeah I’m going to go try that right now I would say stop and and stop yourself

And remember that you any conversation you have within within the lodge or as a as a mason in public must be seasoned with that gentleness and respect for others and sometimes gentleness and respect means just keeping your mouth shut just not saying anything at all you

Know because I I have to the attitude is is that do I do my words have my brother’s best interest in heart sometimes it’s better just not to say anything and just put your arms around a brother you know and just agree to disagree and or just move on to

Something different you know yeah and unfortunately in today’s society we we we’ve lost that ability to to have a conversation you know we’re we’re quick to to bring ourselves down and and you know respond with insults or right yeah violent um Tendencies instead of you know actually thinking about what

Somebody’s saying and then responding intelligently we just evolve right into well that’s just wrong and and I hate you and right your opinion doesn’t matter to me yeah we talked about that I think in our last podcast we’re going over some of the lecture things that we

Can talk about and that was definitely one of the things that came up is uh understanding what what we like to say is Freemasonry gives you training wheels for Life yeah because the system teaches you how to behave with each other and you almost I mean 98% of the time when

You’re in a lodge or around a lodge and there’s Brothers they do treat each other the right way right they do even when they’re mad even when they’re not agreeing with each other they’ve learned how to have respect for each other and like a little bit of tolerance for each

Other and so we talk about those are training wheels that at some point you got to take off and go out into the real world and do that too out there and that was really the problem you’d see someone in Lodge and you it’s a a different

Person than you’d see online like who is that person W right yeah we we’ve been kind of going through that with a a well-known a wellknown brother out there and um just absolutely just dumping all kinds of hateful speech on his Facebook page I mean it’s a little bit I’ve seen

Much worse yeah I mean right right but when you know when Hey Hey brother can you maybe reconsider you know that that kind of direction that you’re going in it’s like if you don’t like it you know get off my page get lost BL la la all that stuff

And it’s just like you know we’re our attitude is is you know you’re still you’re still an active Mason in good standing therefore you know we owe you we owe you respect but we don’t have to listen to it and we don’t have to be a

Part of it you know so we we decided to just move on from you know from that that particular brother and because that’s all we can do you know we exactly we can’t I we fighting each other doesn’t get anybody in fighting with each other other doesn’t get anybody I

You said sometimes just stop talking if you’re Notting is that what you’re saying to me right now cuz that that no no no I’m saying that’s a lesson I’ve learned you can’t you can’t police no you can’t and I think this this podcast is dedicated to that Chris comes from a

Center left uh Viewpoint I come from a center right Viewpoint and the two of us have conversations all the time and um it’s look forward to them I look forward to them too it’s it’s it’s enriching yeah and we gain each other’s perspective you know and and he’s he can

He has the right to speak into my life and change my mind um and I have the same right to speak into his life that only happens through you know what the basics of Freemasonry man where we treat each other right as brothers I have my

Be I have my brother’s best interest at heart in everything that I do and I mean I say this all the time on the podcast where are you going to find a fraternity or an organization um that that teaches that that lives that that you’re not

Going to find it anywhere else and I think that’s one of the reasons why as we go online into the digital Marketplace and show people what masonry really is it’s probably one of the reasons why it’s ascending um so quickly in my opinion well yeah well you know you you

Got two things one is going back to the brother that’s that’s uh maybe inappropriate online um you can whisper wise counsel yeah that’s right and as as Mason that’s what we’re taught you know if you see a brother that’s that’s heing you whisper wise counsel there’s nothing that says he’s

Going to take it right so you know you give them the advice and they take it or leave it so there’s you know you got to leave it up to them but you know even if there’s only you got to remember going back to being able to to talk to one another

That even if there’s only two of you you’re probably not going to agree on everything right so it’s okay to disagree it’s it’s how you disagree yeah you know I’m sure there’s a lot of things that my neighbor and I don’t I don’t really know my neighbor but I’m

Sure there’s a lot of things that they do that I don’t agree with I’m not going to hate them right yeah and if you saw them in trouble and in need you’d help them regardless absolutely yeah absolutely you know you’d put aside any of the you know

Those differences and you and you’d help them you know because that’s that’s the right thing to do that’s what it means to be part of the human family you know we we’ve so lost that in this country we are so divided you know the the left

Versus right ruse has has kind of um has has infected every aspect of Our Lives you know and it’s it’s just become this you know you either if you don’t agree with everything that I’m about then I can’t I can’t help you I can’t be a part

Of your life I can’t be open to you and it’s just absolutely killing us out there you know it’s just it’s ABS cut off all all hope of any kind of societal healing cannot start until we get rid of that and begin to love our neighbor as

Ourself again well more more and more when we talk to these brothers this is something they really are looking for from the fraternity they oh wait there’s a safe environment where I’m not going to deal with this stuff that’s there in the world yeah I’m definitely interested

In that uh exactly I think we have the answers here in the fraternity we’ve just got to get the word out more now right right uh because and and the the the the social media marketing program that uh you’re very involved in has done a wonderful job you know spreading the

Word and and and kind of putting that light out there that says you know hey come over here and let’s let’s talk and uh you know because you’re probably looking for exactly what uh what we need right okay now let’s go there so you’re talking about the grand LOD marketing

Reimbursement program that you started uh now well the the the grand Lawn officers that were yeah in office when I was Grandmaster we started it uh sure I was there the I think it was born and um you were definitely leading the conversation I’ll put it that way uh and

And so what I’m curious of because I saw on like the the everyday man side of that story myself firsthand uh I saw a Grand Lodge officer that appeared to be doing something radically different than had ever been done and being quite bold and getting his entire line involved and

Them buying into it as well which is an important part of leadership especially in Freemasonry but what I’m curious of is your side of that story did you get was it difficult for you to communicate your vision to people or did were they very accepting early on and like how

Difficult was it for you to get that kind of a thing going on from your side yeah so when I talked to uh you know the Grand Lodge officers and and and other administrators just said hey you know because I don’t think there’s ever been a Grandmaster that’s

Gone in the office that says I want to hurt the fraternity you know we all we all sacrifice a lot to get in line and and say okay one day I’m going to be the leader um and that sacrifice is generally I want to help the fraternity

What what what can I do to make the fraternity better when I’m out of office than when I’m going into office MH and that was you know I don’t know what made me think of it or what brought it to you know but I saw what you were doing and I

I heard stories and I said you know on a bigger scale that that would help our fraternity and I started talking to you know the deputy Grand Master senior Grand Warden Junior Grand Warden the candidates that were you know trying to get elected and they were you could see it in their

Eyes when you started talking to they were like oh yeah you know that’ be a great thing to do so we developed this program you know the grand secretary and Grand treasur were involved and you know we all got together put our heads together and and came up with this

Program and then the big question was to you brother Chris you know would you be willing to help us out and of course you jumped out on board and said sure and and I think that it’s just grown immensely and it’s doing a great job

It’s a great um tool that the grand L providing to The Lodges that they need desperately I think it’s a testimony too to my partner’s tenacity because um I spoke i’ I’ve talked to him over these couple of years about uh this this program ever since I became you know

Involved through his program by the way that’s the reason why I’m here today um but his it it was was that there was no way that this man was going to give up it was he was wrestling that bear every single day and the bear finally

Said fine fine it was it was magical for me when most Wishful Foster shocked me and took me aside I was not prepared for the conversation we had along with all the other Grand Lodge officers right and I’m Mr Nobody over here um I think it

Was more of oh my God this this guy’s G to ask me to do a lot of work and he take a lot of time and effort honestly the opposite I thought I thought in that moment what did I do wrong what did I do that caused this like this is not

Good there’s like four guys here with gold collars I don’t think this is normal and I was really scared uh but yeah it turns out it was a good conversation it was a it was a um a course changing conversation it really changed the course and I think I think

We’ll look back um on that that conversation that started the whole thing that brought you in Chris and through the initiative uh that most worful Foster put together in his Grand Lodge that moment that movement um was was absolutely uh going to be pivotal uh in in Florida masonry for the State of

Florida and perhaps even even Beyond and I think it it also ties into to this this new um movement towards um continuing you know the five to 7e plan of of the the worshipful master not just doing his thing and then leaving but but taking taking the mantle of the The

Five-Year Plan that he came into and adding another year to it to push it forward so that we have that continuity you know and that’s a big that’s a big conversation happening right now I saw it in Grand LOD at the communication and that’s most worshipful Fosters Mark also

I think he this is what you did here really did kind of bring that to the Forefront of we really need to look at continuation of certain programs that Grand Master set up and continuity so yeah yeah and and I preached that the entire time was we’ve

Got to stop and venting the wheel every year we right you know if we got a good wheel let’s use it so yeah it’s it’s and I even see that in l you know I talk to to Junior wardens and Senior wardens you know hey what what

Are you planning on during your year well I’m not planning on anything maybe I won’t get elected so and I think and brother Chris you’re probably experiencing this that from the time you get installed as a master to the time you hand the ring over to the next guy

It goes quick there’s not a whole lot of time to to think and ment stuff and you really need to start thinking about you know how are you going to better your Lodge as senior Deacon Junior Warden don’t don’t wait until right before you get elected

Because you’re going to run out of time real quick yeah that’s right oh we’ve seen that firsthand there are certain people I’ve personally know and been friends with that started planning their year four years in advance right and they lined up like 25 huge things they were going going to wait until their

Year to do and then their year came and it just exploded because the reality was right your plans don’t mean anything if you don’t if it’s not the Lodge’s plan your plans aren’t going to go far right and exactly what I see by the Lodge’s plan is that the the five to sevene

Ongoing plan is makes that possible yeah right because you and I I remember coming up to Chris on June right around June 1st and I and I don’t know if this true you tell me if I’m I’m right CHR but I I said to him I said to him you

Know how’s it feel to be six months into it and he kind of looked at me like holy crap it’s been six months yeah I have oh yeah I failed already if it’s six months sheesh it’s like what wait it’s half over well even now like right after

Grand Lodge I shortly after I feel like and you I’m sure you understand most worshipful my thinking has changed towards passing it it to the next year already I’m already trying to make that transition happen now rather than I’m not pushing my any kind of agenda I’m I’m I’m in a phase

Where I’m like getting people really ready to take over tomorrow um and making sure the continuity is going to happen and I’m already trying to step back from things because I don’t want it to be a hard transition when it happens yeah and and that’s a good thing you know

That the the days of well this is my year we’re going to do what I want yeah you know the lodge is name just because you become worful Master the lodge is still going to retain its name it doesn’t become you know Jeff Foster lodge number

267 you know I like the sound that still Orange Park Lodge you know well I don’t because you can’t have a you can’t have a lodge named after a living past Grand Master so to get a lodge named after you you got to do one very uh perent thing and

I’m not ready to do that yeah that’s right that’s right yeah but anyways um you know the lodge just because they’ve elected you as Junior Warden senior Warden woral master and and and it even goes to just because you get elected as Junior Grand Warden senior Grand Warden Deputy grandm

Grandm you need to push a uh the fraternity or a group as a whole not just you know this is my one year to shine uh mentality because that that does nothing for the fraternity and no yeah that’s right that’s right and and we’ve seen it we’ve seen it sure we’ve

Uh seen some lodges in in real real Dire Straits um because the worful master is literally trying to make it about him it’s amazing how much damage you can do in a short amount of time the shock waves are literally reaching our entire District take long absolutely all you

Got to do is is get in there and aggravate a couple brothers and they stop coming to Lodge you know then a couple more stop coming to Lodge you have nobody showing up yeah it’s a volunteer organization and they forget that you know that um I when I go

To work and my boss is you know giving me a hard time about something I can’t just not come anymore right but here at lodge if it gets really bad I mean I’m just I’m just done I I didn’t sign up for some guy yelling at me or or doing all of these

Polit political moves and all the I I have no tolerance for that and most men don’t we didn’t come here for that well it’s too easy to vote with your feet yeah absolutely exactly just say okay if this is how it’s going to be I’ll just go watch TV tonight no problem right

Yeah I’ll hang out with my wife yeah and once you do that two three times it’s really hard to get them back yeah that’s true oh it is once you get out of the habit of of you know going to Lodge it it’s real easy to get into the

Habit of not going to LOD easier than getting into the habit of actually showing up yeah that’s right and what then you end up with all the brothers that they pay Faithfully pay their dues but they just won’t walk into the door yeah we have a we have a lot of

Brothers like that just they they Faithfully pay their dues because they they there was a time when they were very active in Lodge and something happened whether I’m not I don’t know who fault it was a personal thing happened and um they still have an invest m in masonry that’s why they

Continue to pay their dues every year but they’re not right they’re not coming back in until somebody reaches out to them and says hey this is what’s happening now and uh I’m hoping that our lodge has we do have an initiative to reach back to active members uh and make

Phone calls to them it’s it’s it’s a little difficult but we’re we’re slowly working through it and just trying to ask ask brothers who are Faithfully paying their dues for years and years but have not come to Lodge hey man why why aren’t you coming and what what can

We do to get you back in you know and I it’s a worthy initiative we have 380 I think it is 380 active members so it’s a big list to uh to go back through but uh I know I know I’ve signed up to do it

Yeah um and a couple of other brothers have signed up to do it we haven’t seen a lot of fruit from it but it’s definitely something that’s in the works well what I found I got a list from the secretary and I made calls early in my

Year I had this Grand idea I’m going to call every member personally as the master in a weekend I got through about 15 names this year right but I you know in that small sampling there are two dead Brothers right right that we didn’t even know had passed and their their

Dues are still being paid by their estate right and we’re paying per capita for them still and we never you know did anything for the family it’s just that I was really upset by that that’s upsetting small sampling that I did it even happened uh yesterday I had a

50-year presentation come from Grand Lodge and I I called the brother and his wife said he passed he would have loved this but he passed terrible that’s not good yeah that’s not good and that’s that’s something that we’re working through in our lodge and that’s part of the ongoing

Next year um when Zach is worful Master he’ll have to deal with it as well we’re just going to keep we’re going to keep working through these issues yep because um it doesn’t stop when worshipful Burns um hands a mantle over to uh upand cominging uh worshipful Zach uh wly

Wiggly thank you sorry Zach that goes back to what Mor worful Foster said in the beginning with the social program he cautioned be careful about the Westgate yeah that’s right so anybody you let into your Lodge can become the master of that Lodge that’s right and it’s our responsibility we’re

Not advancing people just one chair by one chair because you did the time you have to think about who best can work for the lodge yeah that’s right exactly and if you see problems like recognize it don’t let it just go because we’ve seen that in a few

Short months uh a problem in leadership can do damage that’s going to take years to fix yeah absolutely it could destroy a lodge yeah and I know it’s hard to come out of a hole once you’re in it and so that could put them in a tail spin

That really could take the lodge down completely if it’s not fixed yeah well because it’s a whole year and um when you say you know it could destroy a lodge uh that’s a very real statement because that person is in in in charge for an entire year and you can do you

Can do terminal damage to a lodge in a year’s time for sure it’s just like our country you know we have a beautiful country a beautiful system of government a perfect almost perfect document that we guide ourselves by and uh through people having an idea that oh

It’s fine it’s always going to be fine we’re always going to have this no have to protect it we might not always have this it’s the same for our lodges I know there’s a I see so many people that think oh I was here for so long it’s

Going to be fine people say that and it makes me so mad it’s not going to be fine if you think that I um I visited go ahead go ahead I’m sorry but you can you can find you know go to some of the lodges that have

Real small numbers after them you know that were there towards the of of reary in Florida the Grand Lodge and uh just visit yeah and you know attrition and you know I’m trying to think of another word but um as Masons we get into a rut you know

We we elect somebody to the East and and they don’t they don’t want to do this and they don’t want to do that and you know the next thing you know you’ve lost what you’re supposed to be doing in Lodge and it becomes you know uh just

Another meeting right and the next thing you know it your membership is not showing up just for another meeting yeah and we’ we’ve kind of lost that a little bit in in our in masonry we need to get back to it it’s the culture really the

Exactly we need to and that man this is why I wanted to talk to you so badly because you get it you get it we you know that I when I was coming up in the line I thought people were crazy for starting to plan their year

Years in advance I’m like look at how fast things are changing I’m not going to have the same Lodge in four years that I’m sitting in today and I don’t even know if I’ll make it there so every idea I had I brought it up to whoever

Was the master we tried to do it so in my when it came time for me to be in the chair I Had No Agenda because you know every idea I had we already already tried or implemented yeah and so my whole push for our lws was just to

Maintain the pureness of free masonry as much as we possibly could and that’s what we wanted for our line this year and and to start our Five-Year Plan was to just get back to the most basic tenants of Freemasonry that we’re going to love each other we’re going to be

Passionate about Freemasonry and we’re always going to act like Masons and I think that’s where you have to start right you got to start at the beginning you got to deal with the culture before you can deal with the lodge building or the membership problems if your culture

Is not right you can’t fix anything else that’s right yeah and and culture is changed by by by changing hearts and Minds that’s how you change a culture you can’t mandate it uh from on high because it’s it’s not going to work you’re only going to reinforce people’s

Stubbornness uh by trying to make them do something that they don’t understand through through clearly defining what it is that you’d like to do and engaging people people uh where they’re at you know with that with that mindset of hey this is our lodge do you do one of the

Questions we ask people all the time is do you care if your great grandson uh is a member of this Lodge would that be something that you would work towards does it matter to you if your Lodge is here in 25 years does that matter to you and that’s that’s part that’s the

Mindset and culture we’re trying to instill in people it’s like this this is your Lodge but it’s also your great grand children’s Lodge if you’ll have it if you’ll work towards it you know Yep this is beautiful beautiful gift to humanity that like it takes a lot of

Work to keep it protected that’s right and and we’re we’re actually kind of behind the eightball we want to keep it protected but we have to first we have to rebuild it so to speak you know we have to get back to that place where you

Know um our lodge uh 147 if you look at uh the newspaper clippings of the 19 you know uh 1950s and 60s that Lodge was in the paper every weekend man they were active in everything yeah the mayor was a Mason of the of our lodge you know and

It just it’s it’s not that way anymore there’s a famous picture um in our in our local newspaper from the late 60s where the the Masonic parade was going down Main Street and it was massive and everybody came out um to you know to participate in this Sonic um you know

The lodge parade and and and it was active in the community and stuff and and we we got to get back there we got to get away from hiding behind all of the misinformation and cowering to it you know we’re we’re real bold on on telling people what masonry truly is you know

That we’re not a conspiracy we’re not you know we’re not this we’re not not any of that stuff it’s one of the main missions of our podcast really we when every time we record I imagine I’m talking to somebody that doesn’t know anything about Freemasonry that’s right

Yeah and try to make sure because it is for Masons obviously they want to talk about esoteric stuff but in my mind you know when I was before I was initiated I consumed all the stuff I could to try to understand it better right and there were certain YouTube uh Masons who are

Making content for people like me that aren’t Masons to tell them things that they could understand and so I I think that’s really a good way we can try to get ahead of that a little bit we could because there’s a lot we can be open about absolutely and a lot of brothers

Don’t understand that you know that oh well we’re a secret society that we’re not really a secret society we have secrets that Society doesn’t know about right um but you know there’s a lot of organizations that um have stuff that that only members know pretty much every organization if

You think it yeah that’s there’s always something that’s not public right but you know Freemasonry is has been around for so long that you know there’s a lot of conspiracy theories and a lot of misinformation and I think it’s only because we’ve been around for so long yeah and there’s a

Lot of information that people should know yeah and and and we’re in a day and age where you know a conspiracy theory goes a long way online you know every lots of clicks and Views lots of clicks and stuff but you know and and I know that the the conspiracy stuff is not

Helpful for our cause but I gotta be honest and I say this all the time I I just I kind of dig it it is a double-edged sword I kind of like the fact that they look at me a little mysterious you know I got some family

Members up in North Carolina who just totally don’t get it you know and I’m more than happy to let them keep thinking what they’re thinking you know just give them a little wink you know and I was I was up there visiting and we were we were getting breakfast and the

One family member I’m thinking about there happened to be a brother uh Mason in line to pay to leave the restaurant you know and I could tell because he had a tattoo on his back calf you know so I went up to him and I shook his hand you

Know and um and just said brother it’s good to see you brother it’s good to see a brother up here in North Carolina and we kind of did the chest bump handshake thing you know and as I walked away I could see them looking at me like what

Did you just do and it was just like your family yeah yeah yeah a couple of f extended family members you know cuz they think they truly buy into this entire Illuminati thing you know and it’s just like it’s like you know what I’m gonna let you go go ahead go ahead

And believe that even though you’ve known me since you were a child right you know you you’ve known me since you were a little kid you know my faith you know my conduct but go ahead you can listen to the online guys as opposed to listening to your uncle you know

Whatever there you go yeah along those same lines uh you know when I was coming in my early days as Mason um people would would kind of approach me and and talk about that same same line of thinking you know oh you guys are the Illuminati you know you you have

This great treasure map somewhere that’s you know and I would always just kind of you know took my head a little look at him and go so you know George Washington was amazing Ben Franklin was amazing uh we’ve had astronauts that were Masons uh do you think that those people would

Be as great as they are if they really follow those lines of what you’re thinking they are yeah right and you know they kind of you know you can see a little light flicker in their eyes yeah yeah and maybe that’s true it is it is absolutely true and and I mean

Fantastical thinking um it it it kind of lives in that online orb right so this Fantastical conspiratorial thinking and you you bring it into your head and you it lives in your head until you meet someone like us and we ask questions like that think about what you’re saying

You know for a second you know just just let me just bring simple facts you’ve known me forever all of a sudden I started eating babies one day all of a sudden I’m eating babies and doing things with goats and it’s like but and you can just see them

Deflate a little bit there’s a little bit of disappointment like where wait wait you mean it’s not a conspiracy you mean it’s just a bunch of men trying to lift each other up so to better society and themselves and their families that’s no fun what is that I don’t I don’t care about

That it’s true I have family like yours and it’s fun in a way it kind I’m sorry it’s just a little bit fun you can’t really engage people that have a preset you know it’s really not wise to in my opinion no you’re right you don’t want

To enter into it because then you’re just you’re you’re you become like them right that’s what it says in Proverbs right if if you argue with people like that you tend to become like them if somebody’s watching you are the word is fool that’s pretty harsh word but the if

If somebody is watching you trying to argue with a foolish person that person is going to say to themselves look there’s two fools right and you don’t want that you don’t want that exactly yeah it’s a lot more fun because they’ll uh you know I got I was uh obsessed with

Learning the ritual work and after I learned all that and got all the proficiency cards I was like what else can I do in my life so I started to learn the piano something I not really learn but I memorized oh he learned it I didn’t learn it I just memorized I kept

The memory thing going and uh my wife’s family I great they have a piano in their house so one day I they know I’m not a musical guy but I sat down and played a little bit of classical music you know and they were like whoa did the Freemasons make you do

That that’s the kind of stuff I get from them like they’ll just randomly and they’re talking about like you know the cost of avocados and they’ll be like what did the Freemasons think about that wow well when we’re sacrificing the Virgin it’s important to have avocados exactly you got to have fresh avocados

So it’s just amazing what people think out there and you know like you said it’s just still a little funny in a way you don’t really engage I’m not going to represent freem masonry to people no that’s right it’s it’s there’s a saying in the in the scripture that talks about

Casting your pearls this is another harsh saying a harsh word I don’t mean it the way it sounds but casting your pearls among swine in other words taking what is precious taking what is precious to you and is important to you and and casting it before people who have

Absolutely no desire to understand it um and and no concern whatsoever for how much you care about it it’s unwise don’t do it yeah you know just just be be Discerning and uh take for for Chris and I and I know you as well most worshipful masonry is important to us and we’re

Very passionate about it and we we think it has it has something to offer Society so to to to cast it before people who simply blow it off or want to disrespect you or it is not it’s not wise and we don’t we don’t engage that we I I love

Them they’re like I was talking about my family memb I love them to death I do anything for them but honestly I am not in the market to share with them something that they’re simply not going to they’re not going to understand or want to understand in any ways you know

So it’s it’s I don’t know I don’t know why I got off on that rabbit well well and so if I can yeah do oh you can that is why uh along that line of thinking why we don’t solicit membership in Freemason Marine we wait for somebody to seek it out

Because if if if they’re looking for it uh those are the type of people we want because they’re going to embrace our way of thinking uh if you try to convert and that’s that may not be the best word to use if you’re going to try

To you know to to to convince somebody that doesn’t want it that this is who we are and this is what we do they’re not going to really accept it right so that that that’s why you know with with what you were just saying that’s why we wait until somebody comes

To us and says you know tell me about masonry right because then they’re in a they have the mindset and the humility to to be taught they’re teachable at that moment you know and then and then you know you just simply share the facts with them you know about what it truly

Is and it works it really does work cuz um I mean we see all kinds of guys coming in yeah to us and um but they’re very desirous of understanding yeah how fre masonry can help them understand the world better right right yeah and it’s it’s like you said because they had

Exciting it’s like we’re so lucky it’s just wave after wave of these people who are such high quality people yeah we’re we’re making new Masons every month it’s amazing I couldn’t have imagined this like four years ago it would have been Unthinkable what we’re doing oh yeah

Absolut we’re it’s it’s because the the program um is is initiated or has kind of stemmed from uh worful Burns here most wor fost most worful Foster here but the it’s kind of we’re at the Fountain Head here and uh we get the full benefit of the system and of course

Now Chris has been blessed with a lot of brothers who have come alongside him um John Schaefer and one of them shout out to John who has really just picked up the man on on on doing the Sunday open house yep and you know calling these brothers

Every week every time we get we get names you know off off the system he calls them right away he invites them down they come down and he he he schedules people to join him like I was down there the other day with him and

They sit and talk and give him a tour and give him a you know a basic understanding of what it is what they can expect and then hands them a petition and uh he’s he’s like uh 80% of the petitions he hands out come back this is what happens when you work

A program properly Grand line these are the tools Grand LOD is providing us all we have to do is work them yeah and then and then continuing along that same line what what what happened was we just got bombarded and you know where I’m going with this we got bombarded with new

Petition with new candidates and all of a sudden we needed mentors and we needed we needed catechism instructors we needed we needed to engage them we need needed to do masonry correctly so that it would engage them more and more into the ritual work and into the into the

Line and all of the the serving side of it uh so we’ve had to and we have go back to creating the the proper Masonic structures right back to the basics back to the basics within our house to make sure that when those men come in um they’re properly mentored uh the

Catechism instruction is done correctly and properly um the degree work is um is our our our degree work is getting pretty good I got to say it’s it’s really starting to it’s really starting to get get good we’ve got um our uh our our degree team well we have a state

Competition teamate competition team largely made up of some 147 yeah some 147 which is really anyways the point is is right I know that bragging now we’re just bragging well I I can’t brag I’m I am they stuck me they stuck me in as Junior Warden because it’s very e easy

In the EA um but I am the turkey flying with these Eagles CU there are nothing is easy when it comes to competition it’s not easy I’m not saying it’s easy I’m not saying it’s easy but I am thankful that I was not asked to be you know senior senior Deacon or something

That requires actual skill because I am I am struggling but you know we’ve got we’ve got uh uh right worshipful and uh past uh uh Deputy Grand Masters and in past instructor and um and then there’s me the two-year Master Mason so it’s it’s I am honored don’t get me wrong I’m absolutely

Honored and I am doing my best to step up and make sure I don’t let anyone down but it’s it’s a really this is a clearly a rabbit Trail I’m going down um but it’s it’s it’s clearly been just an absolute privilege and and absolutely

Just uh caused me to want to be in degree do degree work more and more and more and I’m going to try to tie this back to where we were is that the the degree work uh being involved within the lodge and doing the lodge work is what

Makes masonry uh what makes masonry exciting and it’s like I’ve said before on the show it’s like the the cure for masonry is masonry sure you know doing masonry correctly there’s nothing that needs to be invented or we don’t need to invent anything just do it right exactly

And and they will come you know because it’s awesome it’s exactly what men want you know exactly L may I ask you some personal questions before we go sure not too terribly personal but I’m I’m really curious uh before you became a Mason which for you was uh 2004 if I’m correct

Uhhuh so you had you had a life obviously you lived a a full life before you joined Freemasonry was there anything in your Prem Masonic life that you think really set you up for what you became in masonry working through all the chairs you know the district and then becoming

A Grand Lodge officer and working through the Grand line and serving as the Grand Master and now for the rest of your life being an ambassador for Freemasonry like before you became a Mason was there anything like event that you can look at and say I think this

Really like was the start of what I was going to become as a mason so I don’t know I mean it was always I guess predetermined that I was going to join the fraternity my my great-grandfather was was a Mason was Master of mwan Lodge in New Jersey my my

Grandfather was a Mason uh my dad was a mason so you know just following in lines and and I look back and I say you know my dad um he was one of those guys that if he told you he was going to do something he did it there was never any

Question about whether or not it was going to be done and when I was young I I never really you know that that that never occurred to me that never really you know popped into my head as as you know he didn’t need something in writing

You know to say he was going to do it if he shook your hand and said that you know I’ll sell you my house for $10 and he shook your hand you were buying his house for 10 bucks um and it it took a little later on in life for me to

Realize you know those traits in him but as I as I grew up as I matured I saw those traits and I was like those are the traits that I want to emulate and and and I can tell you right now my dad will tell you I was a rotten [Laughter]

Kid were times where he said well exactly you know and one of his favorite sayings is you know there were times where he wouldn’t even trust me to count Nails in a barrel somewhere you know but uh I I think you know joining the military and and having a good work

Ethic instilled in me and you know the the some of the traits that that get instilled to you serving in the military of you know you have responsibility and now you have authority and responsibility you know coming up and and one of the and I’m

Going to digress a little bit but one of the things that I was I will eternally be sorry for was that I didn’t seek masonry out while I was in the military um earlier that that you know I missed out on a lot but I I

Didn’t know you know cuz my dad’s an old school Mason and you you just you don’t talk about masonry so I never really knew um what I was missing until after I got it and then it was like man I wish i’ had sought this out earlier but you

Know I always thought you know I was in the military I didn’t have time to to belong to an organization and do anything because I didn’t no I was ignorant um and and I tell people anybody that’ll listen you know if you ever thought about being a

Mason you need to seek it out as early as possible don’t don’t wait until till later on in life yeah I agree with that 100% ever since I’ve joined there’s been people that I’m like drawn to like a moth to a flee because they’re just great men there’s something about them

They’re just great men and like you’re talking about you can smell authenticness and uh that kind of like sincerity and all of those men when I and I do ask them is there anything you regret or you wish you would have done and they always say what you just said I

Wish I had started sooner yeah that’s absolutely abolutely they all say that I just wish I had started sooner because this has been the greatest thing in my life yep and they’ve served so much and given so much but all they talk about like you is what you’ve gotten out of it

What it’s given you and all I see is wow You’ sacrificed a lot I think that’s the beaut and your time and you know a lot of sacrifice for something uh and it and and that’s what I think the outside people don’t get is you’re getting so much from it yeah

That’s right it’s not money you’re not getting you’re I’m sure you haven’t enriched yourself as a mason or through masonry not not financially yeah that line no but it’s it’s all been a labor of love and you know it’s I would give until I canot give

Anymore yeah yeah and it’s it like like we say all the time masonry is what men are looking for it’s a it’s a you know it’s a Band of Brothers it’s uh you know it’s us holding each other up something greater than ourselves and uh you know

Our ritual work and the things we do um the teachings um the the working tools the understanding and Enlightenment that masonry brings to it a man’s mind uh within the context of being surrounded by brothers who are like-minded is exactly what men are looking for it’s

How God created us he did not create us to be alone uh Fighting by ourselves because a soldier who fights by himself is is going to die there it’s a guaranteed fact but if you are strong within that regimen of uh and now I’m talking like a military guy uh I don’t

Know how or why uh but yeah we’re stronger together I feel it I would was in I was sitting in we were doing an EA degree the other day man and I was sitting there in my chair as part of the degree team and I swear I I could become

Emotional I was over it yeah and it was just gosh I love this man I love these brothers they love me this is what when the ritual work is good you know you’re you’re getting an experience that hundreds of years of people have gotten right just as good as you did and there

Something magical about getting to be part of it yeah yeah and you recognize that so if you’re if you’re listening uh to this and if you’ve listened this long good on you you’re you’re a hero to us um they’ll listen for hours because most Wishful Fosters that’s that’s right

That’s right we have we have the ultimate hook um but yeah if you’re if you’re listening uh and you’re not a Mason um please we say it all the time go down to your local Lodge and talk to them and find out what they’re about um feel feel the energy for yourself feel

The energy for yourself get involved and if you are currently a Mason and you’re saying to yourself well I don’t see any of that stuff at my Lodge there’s a reason for that because you haven’t done anything about it yet so get busy get busy if you see the need be the need

That’s if you see it be it go do it get inside your Lodge and uh and make some positive changes and reach out to us that’s what this podcast here is for we will help you we know some we we know some big shots man we we we got people

Man so here’s another one for you that was and thank you for that um but you okay we’re talking to a man who is a military guy has a family joined the fraternity literally worked through every chair he was the Secretary of a lodge for what was it six years God

Bless you six years yep yep became a district Deputy committeeman right went to the Grand line like he did everything the hard way the way that you’re supposed to do it earned the respect of everyone Blaze trails with the social media campaign you really I think were instrumental in part of what as

Happening with the Prince Hall situation oh God bless you like he has done just so much and now uh as a past Grandmaster the the part that pains me is that these men have a sense of I need to not I need to go into the background and be in the

Shadows now and it’s like such a loss of the fraternity I think that you can’t be as engaged as I wish you were and out there but now you’re here on our podcast and I would I’m you know you are a real person you’re a man and you’re you love

This fraternity and you know potentially everybody in the State of Florida that maybe are masons but don’t even go to Lodge don’t go to The Grandmaster visits you have an opportunity to talk directly to them is there anything you would say to those Masons out there the only thing that I would I

Would encourage is if you are Not passionate about Freemasonry do a little self-reflection and and ask yourself why have has that flame extinguished itself because you were obviously passionate enough to seek it out what happened to get that flame to go out why why did it go out and then do something about that reason and see if

You can’t get that flame reignited and and make your Lodge in Freemasonry better I love that yeah that’s right and I like the the word uh self do some self-reflection yeah take it yeah absolutely where you at where you at with this yeah stop pointing fingers at

Shadows and other things and look at yourself what’s yeah what’s got you upset was it just a little thing was it just a person was it a personal situation yeah cuz I I can guarantee you if that’s you out there um you you’re needed we need you back we need you back

Absolutely U we need you good and whole and strong and back amongst your brothers um and and pushing forward because our country I masonry has something to offer this hurting country and uh and I think that’s that’s there’s just no denying it and it’s it’s it’s going to happen we’re going that way

It’s ascending it’s growing uh and and we will see we we will see it back to its for Glory absolutely well I’m really encouraged because I’ve started to get an opportunity to travel more I’m getting invited now to Master Mason associations to speak about the Grand Lodge marketing program nice and very

Nice yeah I was just at district 21 which is a huge district 14 lodges wow yes they they cover a lot of square miles too yeah it’s massive that District that poor poor right worful Simpson has to make four visits to 14 lodges this year and they are not close

Together he’s doing an amazing job but what really impressed me about that is this was a somewhat hostile crowd to the ideas that I was talking about and um the right worshipful literally stood up and said listen guys nobody’s asking the real questions that you want to ask ask

Them he doesn’t he’s not going to get offended you’re not going to upset him he’s not going to melt say what you want to say and uh it turned into an hourlong discussion at that Master Mason associate the most passionate Brothers Master stood up and these guys have been

Working tirelessly for like a decade turning their lodges around almost single-handedly some of them and it’s really encouraging because you see how passionate the people are all over the place about Freemasonry and there’s just it just takes like one really passionate person to completely turn around a lodge

Yeah that’s right and rally people I’m looking at one well I’m talking about the brothers of district 21 personally uh it was it was amazing to me to see that and it gives me hope uh because the the the one that impressed me the most you know he was pretty hostile he was

Not a hostile he had no problems telling me to my face what he thought about my Lodge in the program he said your Lodge is broken brother let me tell you and it’s because he didn’t understand right that’s why he said that so I had an opportunity to communicate with a guy

Who had an impression that was wrong and we talked about it I said brother my LOD isn’t broken because he said yeah 350 members and you only got 30 people on the sidelines that’s horrible I got 30 members and I have a higher percentage and I’m like that’s great but my log ISM

Broke and we’ve lost half our membership in the last decade we had 600 members right yeah right I’m in the same situation as you it’s just a different scale of the problem and uh I’m the same as you I’m you know one guy over here trying to change things and it’s not

Easy and you know we started to bond over the same we’re the same right we’re the same the only thing that was lacking was an understanding an understanding yeah which miscommunication misunderstanding right love it and when we talk about things and and that’s one thing I I really have to say right

Worful Simpson uh really impress me he you can’t shy away from the problems you got to stare him dead in the face together and talk about him the only way they’re ever going to change if you pretend they don’t exist you’re going to have them forever yeah they’ll take on

Their own you know which is always negative and and and put a little light on you now that you have spread that light and shown them it’s only going to take one Lodge one Lodge is GNA start start doing good yep and the other lodges are going to go

Wow look at that Lodge and they’re going to follow in line yeah you’re absolutely and the next thing you know it we’re going to be back to 80 ,000 members yeah 100,000 members and and it’s going to be because of of the effort and time that you’re putting in yeah that’s right I

Mean I was telling those guys like this isn’t a silver bullet okay there’s not one answer to every problem but this is a a valuable tool right that the Grand Lodge is gifting you and if you don’t use it you’re really doing your own Lodge disservice that’s right I think

Those guys that were really passionate and uh worried about some of the aspects of it you know they’re worried you’re going to let in riff raft that’s up to that’s up to the individual Lodge you know it’s like we said starting off you the west gate man you got to we’re not

We’re not telling you to take the gate down man what we’re telling you is to is to is to open open up a little bit get some information out there you know the the men who have already there are men out there who have uh theoretically raised their hand and said yes exactly

Yes I’m I’m I’m thinking about something along the lines of masonry and we’re just and and this program just gets us in front of them that’s it they’ve already they’re already of a mindset but they just don’t have the information that’s all this is and the thing that

Those Brothers don’t realize and I was able to successfully communicate to some of them is uh you know when you’re in a situation where you only have 30 members you’re going to become desperate at some point yeah that’s right and you will start taking anybody that can fog up a

Mirror like most worful Fosters that’s right well and so a great Point great point you got to remember that um back in the early days lodges were small memberships um it was not unheard of for you know a person to be Master several times because you know we didn’t have mass

Transportation it wasn’t easy to get into a vehicle and travel you know 40 miles to to a lodge yeah so you were you pretty much confined to to just your local area um and those lodges that are small have more of a a family feel to them oh yeah

Um if that’s not the right words I’m sorry but no you’re um but you know typically what what your experience in where you have 300 members or 380 members and and you get 30 guys that’s about about normal for lodges in Florida is they get about 10% of their

Membership that attend yeah you know meetings and and do work in a lodge yeah so that you know it you got different situations too because 21 is kind of more of a a rural right um area yeah where you’re in more of a a shitty area that definitely was a topic of

Discussion right yeah for sure well good good I’m glad that was the topic of discussion because that you know it’s just different environment yes so you know you’re the same but you’re not the same yeah I mean and and that’s one of the great things about the fraternity is

That every Lodge although we’re all Masons can have its own different culture and feel of course absolutely and uh that’s okay yeah because you know it is should absolutely it is your LOD should reflect your community right I mean yeah that’s that’s the beauty of it that’s the beauty and that’s the beauty

Of in visiting other lodges within your district and and outside of your District being that traveling Mason because you experience um you know all the different cultures all the different you know the people I I want to get out there I wanted to go with you so bad but

I had motor core that night I couldn’t go so I’m definitely going on the next one I I will not be denied yeah we have another one coming up in another district and I’m really excited about it cuz these like I tell them I’m not running for any office here I’m doing

This cuz I love the fraternity like you guys so right how do we how do we move the needle this is one of the ways and uh yeah so that being said you everything I just said to you you spoke to the the everyday brother out there

Who’s not engaged what would you say to the brother who is in the line who’s getting his MLT trainings he’s about to become an elected officer here in the next year or two uh what would you say to that brother any advice or message you’d have for those for those guys who

Are actually about to become leaders in our Fraternity in the coming years the only thing I would say is remember why you’re in that position um when I was in the Navy when we got we got promoted and then when you make the the the jump from E6 to E7 you know we

Would change uniforms we would go from the working uniform to more of a um a khaki uh Administrative Office Personnel uniform um you weren’t down in the trenches dig in the dirt but we were always taught when you made that jump don’t forget who got you there you

Didn’t get yourself there the people that are around you with ones that got you to where you’re at so just remember when when you become worshipful master of a lodge you didn’t get yourself there you were helped along the way by the brothers of your Lodge and you need to

Be there for them it don’t so most worship will Turlington my little buddy when he got elected or was was was going through the line or or trying to get elected he had a conversation with most wor vob Trump and and I used to like to kid

Around with him because Bob Trump told him make sure the same siiz hat that you wear now fits your head when you become grandm good advice and of course I of course I always tease tease my little buddy that you know went out and bought

A hat there was two sizes bigger at that time so it would fit when he was grandm but you know that I thought that was great philosophical words of wisdom that he given you know to make sure that your head doesn’t grow so large that you know

You forget the purpose of why you’re there yeah which is really to serve is what you’re saying that’s Ser exactly yeah right do you know right Wishful Doug dos I do great man we interviewed him and he said the exact same thing you just said when we asked that question

Yeah that’s amazing good men think alike good yeah that’s right great men think alike well on on that not note uh most worshipful Foster we uh we want to thank you for uh for taking the time out to uh sit with us for this hour and a half conversation absolutely um about the

Craft that we love and um well I I just I I am as a young I’m I’m you know I’m a two-year Master Mason I think maybe a little longer but not years the miles uh but I’ve had a lot of great experiences um and I’ve met a lot

Of of men that I highly respect you being one of them and I just I I just I I Echo what we said a little bit earlier I just wish I had done this so much earlier in my life and um I think all three of us would agree when we say to

Anyone listening uh don’t wait don’t wait um investigate uh Freemasonry and uh and get yourself get yourself involved uh and be a part of what’s Happening here because it’s it it it you’re surrounding yourself with with great men who have done great things man and and you you will never regret it um

Brother Chris anything that you’d like to add before we sign off with most worful Foster uh definitely like to give most worful Foster the last words and the chance to say anything he’d like Absol here but I I would like to just say thank you also um

Really like I had a passion for Freemasonry uh but my involvement with you has lit it to another level I mean I have a white hot burning heat for Freemasonry true nothing will stop um and you had a massive part in that for me personally so I want to take this

Opportunity to thank you for that personally you were great M A Grandmaster and a great leader well thank you thank you an example but I I can I can reverse that and say that because of you uh we had a pretty successful year you know during my

Year’s grandm so you know it’s it’s a two-way street I’m not fishing for those compliments but I’ll I I learned from a wise man to just say thank you thank thank you very much and and and with that we will uh end another amazing uh podcast of on the level with Fred and

Chris our interview with most worshipable Foster most worful Foster anything uh on on the way out uh that you’d like to sign off to our to our listeners I just want to thank you guys for uh for having me this has been a lot of fun and uh I hope to see everyone

Soon yep we will definitely wherever you’re at wherever we’re at we we will eventually meet and of course it will be on the level I had to do it I had to do it so if you’ve listened if you’ve listen to the podcast up to this point

You really are a hero of ours um if you have any questions or comments please just uh email us Fred onthel with Fred and chris.com or Chris the same longest uh email address uh on radio for a reason um and again like like we always

Say or like we always try to say uh now now now that you’ve heard what you’ve heard go back to your Lodge and build it strong thank you most worful thank you most worful we’ll see you guys d

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