Interview with Roberto Sanchez: Dropping Tea with The Revolutionary Texan Mason

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to Us you’ve reached the internet’s home for all things masonry join on the level podcast as we Plum the depths of our ancient craft and try to unlock the Mysteries dispel the fallacies and utilize the teachings of Freemasonry to unlock the greatness within each of us I have you now All right welcome back to on the level podcast formerly on the level with Fred and Chris uh today we have a guest special guest uh I don’t know if I call you sir Knight I don’t know if I call you most worshipful I don’t know if I call you

Worshipful right brother what I’m not good with titles so I’ll just say brother Roberto M Sanchez uh welcome to the show brother thank you for having me Chris it’s a it’s an honor to be here so give me some of your titles let help me

Help me sort all this out I know you’ve done a lot in the fraternity and a lot of our listeners might not know you who you are and I need them to know who you are before we get into why you’re here what we’re gonna talk about well I am a

Past Grandmaster of the grand launch of the state of Mexico but I know nalia Mexico which is the state that surrounds Mexico City I’m also the current Grand Chancellor for that jurisdiction um I’m in the grand York right lines in Hawaii I’m the grand generalisimo for the uh Grand commandry

Of the grand commander of Hawaii um I’m also in the chapter in the council line there uh I’m the Grand Master of the Royal Society of knights ocidental um I was the Grand bunk for the order of corks involved in pretty much every Masonic body that exists very active in

All uh belong to 30 lodges around the world uh from Belgium to Alaska to Hawaii to the UK I mean all over Brazil Mexico obviously several in the US wow that’s amazing I get around how long have you been in Mason now uh I was initiated pass and race in 2005 so 18

Years and some change and you’re currently a Texan yeah I was I was intered past and raised in Texas my family lives here in Texas I have a house in Hawaii a house in Mexico I a lot for work um so what do you do for work um I’m a consultant for the

Rail industry regulatory manager for the rail industry so I I okay have a vast territory and and which is literally all over the world so if I’m needed uh I’ll schedule myself to be in wherever I need to be so it’s so you’re a true Traveling Man in every sense of the word

Absolutely absolutely I us 120 flights a year since Co had slowed down a little bit but I’m yeah still busy that’s crazy well I want to thank you for coming on the show U we’ve been talking through Facebook for a couple months now um I think I reached

Out to you because I uh I started following some of the happenings of the Grand Lodge Shenanigans in Texas on the Facebook group for Texas Freemasons and you over time seem to have become kind of the lightning rod that Co everyone kind of coales behind is what it looked like from the outside

I mean you can correct me if I’m wrong absolutely what happened uh yeah lightning rod is a name that the that the powers to be or the pass Masters gave me as a uh it it was supposed to be a dis but I we turned it into a positive and and and

Completely shocked the world for a lack of better uh um yeah but I stirred into that skid I’ve had issues with some of those guys in the past and and when I saw them doing the same thing they tried to do to me years ago I did not let them get away

With it this time so that’s crazy that the people the everyday Brothers kind of and and I mean I guess we should start at the beginning one of the things that I talked about when I covered this previously was it’s really difficult to find out what’s really happening from an

Outside perspective because the jurisdiction of Texas has laws against talking about anything that happens at Grand Lodge outside Grand Lodge um they’ll take the charter if you’re in a LOD and and Masons can’t talk about it like no one can talk about this stuff is that correct that’s not normally the

Case so the the junior pass Grandmaster put a lot of gag orders from the gate um so I guess to kind of start at a little bit at the beginning we like most grand lodes we have rules codes regulations that everybody follows sure and with ours for the last I mean

For as long as I’ve been am Mason I’ve noticed that the past Grand Masters or the powers that be I mean I call them the machine um you call them the what the machine the machine okay or is seemless and they have a Playbook and again I’m I’m very familiar with the Playbook

Because 10 years ago in 2014 I was a a a hot up encumber in masonry I was District Deputy at the time doing a lot of things I made myself available for a couple of office uh and I was bringing the Masonic groc srcf to Texas a second col to that uh not

Because I asked for it but because I was tapped by the Supreme magas to start a second one and the Machine didn’t want it didn’t like it so they threatened me and they told me if I didn’t season assist I would rule the day and okay so actual threat and a real

Threat absolutely yeah and like I was summoned to the pass Grand Master’s office during the um Grand LOD session back in 2013 in ree Harrison which that is a name that everybody in Texas knows but he’s very popular uh or should I say Infamous infam that’s different than popular he’s very Infamous everybody

Knows who he is in in the in the national uh like in the big okay right yeah he’s the most decorated Mason in the history of the United States he’s got more national titles than anybody ever what was his brother’s name Rees H Harrison or Reese L Harrison J Jr he’s

From San Antonio is this where the term Reese’s pces came from that’s it okay this makes sense now I saw a lot of chatter about Reese’s pces and I was like Wow ree yeah Reese’s pie is the term that I came up with for his follow because uh a

Lot of people follow this man blindly because they’re afraid of if you don’t do what Reese wants he would destroy you and he’s a lawyer so I mean so people are afraid that they might get sued and he dangles Masonic titles and and honors and things over people’s heads and if

You want to play in this game you have to to do what I tell you or you’ll never get it and he not only does that in Texas but at Masonic week like he’s he’s one of the powerhouses he’s one of the three there’s three camps at Masonic

Week uh that kind of rule all the national organizations and he’s the head of one of them he’s the head of the more powerful one say yikes so people are afraid of this guy and and so that’s why I came up with the Tim Reese’s Pieces is anybody that is

That has sold their integrity for a pot metal to follow this man uh for whatever reason so anyways back to the story in 2013 uh when I was getting the second Rose Cru in college in Texas this man threatened me and he told me either you seize and

Desist or you rule the day and your Masonic career is over and I try to not plead with him but kind of tell him like look that’s that’s the son Masonic I I didn’t ask for this it’s already happened uh it’s not how this works right and his response was well no you

You do as I tell you where you’re done and he had beef with the Supreme mags at the time guy named Bill very good friend of mine and he basically told him it’s either him or me you get the pi you don’t get the either pick Texas or you

Pick him and uh pick right now and I I didn’t like being threatened or told that I needed to pick a side right then so I just walked out of the room and 13 days later I had 10 Masonic charges 10 charges yeah 10 charges um and I try to

Fight him the grand launch wouldn’t tell me anything uh as I went through it I found out that lot of past Grand Masters the den Grand secretary a lot of really big deal name masons from the time were the ones that wrote the charges and created this whole conspiracy they

Threatened a lot of my friends uh my friends ended up getting sued that defended me uh it became a huge massive thing for years they got sued outside of the fraternity or just charges civil law uh but in Civil Court every officer and a couple of friends that defended me

Were sued for a million dollars a piece uh in hopes that they would all turn on me and and and give them what they wanted but every one of them like stood firm they didn’t they didn’t turn on me they they like no what you guys were

Doing this wrong uh so essentially they F two more um Masonic the the grandm the next year Michael Wiggins who is now the sgig of uh of Texas he filed two more Masonic charges against me so now we’re up to 12 um and again years before he went to

Actual trial they pulled AWS of shenanigans so I became very familiar with their playbook and finally went trial uh spent 12 hours at the trial the jury took 7 minutes to find all 12 charges false um because they were so we poked holes into every

Single um thing that they did so I I knew the Playbook I knew what they were capable of um so in the jurisdiction of Florida uh our digest says that if you bring charges against a brother and they’re found to be false you’ve opened yourself up to being charged yourself

For unic conduct is that the case in Texas thing in Texas now when my trial was now in the middle of all this trial I ended up getting sued myself for $10 million by two different individuals but they were all contingency on me being found guilty at the Masonic trial uh

When my Masonic charges were dismissed The Trial Master looked at me and said you know these are all now false charges and that is a masonic offense would you like to file charges against all your accusers and I told them no I wanted it to end because it had been years and I

Assumed Masons were good people so the Masons that defamed me for years would do the right thing and be like you know what we screwed up we’re sorry for causing so much trouble well let no not even a little bit um so this is like uh

One of our biggest weaknesses I think as a fraternity is we assume people are doing good or they have good intentions we assume that even when they’re showing us over and over again that they’re not we try to make the assumption that there’s good here Good’s going to come

To this or the right’s going to Prevail but really at the end of the day and I’ve gotten a lot of flak from personal friends because I see things and I want to say something and they’re like it’s not your job to police the fraternity well whose goddamn job is it then whose

Job is it to police because they’re not doing it at the top so who’s supposed to do this stuff if not us exactly what happened this year um and it just kind of Grew From there um eventually all of my stuff went away right like I mean I

Won the the the trial which made all the all the lawsuits the ones against me and against all my friends they all went away so everything away I I expected these guys to apologize and uh like rectified what they no they did the complete opposite they lied they

Said that I I squeeze by they to try to say that the trial never happened that that so that that a Grandmaster of mine just became friends and just dismissed the chart no none of that happened I have I have the 12-h hour recording of

The trial like no but wow 12 hours yeah it was it was it was a long trial uh and for 12 hours they just sit there and threw all they they claimed that I was ah head of a Mexican cartel which is that’s how I can afford to travel

Everywhere that I go to and that I was smuggling drugs and that all the guys that were helping me were were under the threat of death and that’s why they were so loyal to me that if they stepped out of line they would die and it just it was asinine uh well

Let me ask you this and this is like okay maybe aren’t people won’t like it but is are these individuals White oh absolutely okay do you think that that had any bearing on their motivations the fact that you are from another country oh some of them for sure

I mean I heard it this weekend um and that’s one of the reasons I I don’t I mean I I’ll need to post a picture online so you could see it but my uh my traveling apron as a past grandmas of Mexico is very loud it’s got like a

Giant Mexican flat on and and I that one proudly because I know it I know it Rices the the hair the back of their head at least uh there’s another one that’s blue and it’s more common to like but I I wear the Mexican flag one just

Because I know nice did no what was the real reason that you you got them so hot and bothered over you what were you doing that got so under their skin that they had to bury you I I I was I was flying too close to the Sun and Rose too

Fast I mean 2013 you weren’t part of the cabal you weren’t part of the machine and you you clearly weren’t going to play game their game with them when they came to you tried the big thing is that most of and that’s the problem and that’s where the story

Gets interesting is that people that go on the on the on the clim they’ll approach you and I guess test you to see if you’re going to be bending a knee or play play the game and I don’t like I answer to no one like it’s me and God

And that’s it like I’m not gonna just no no no no no no and I specifically with the rose secution chart when the Supreme Maga said I’m going to get a second Rose cran college in Texas and I want you to lead it and I said yes sir and I didn’t

Ask for their permission and when they told me to turn it down I wouldn’t that was the last strong but I mean uh I was also running for the uh Grand Commander line at the time and running for the lodge of research and they stopped that

Uh because of the charges so it became like a a huge thing but so once you cleared all the charges and all the lawsuits are gone like how bummed are you about being a Freemason at that point or do you feel like justice prevailed maybe you have some hope in

The fraternity like where you at at that point I mean I was I was more energized when it was over just because of how many people from all over the world came to my defense and and and kind of stood by me not loudly like not like I did

With this issue here but like they stood firm behind me just in case and like just to push me forward and when I would get a little bit no no keep going yeah so kind of what and that’s why I joined as many lodges as I did is that I had

Several jurisdictions that were like hey if you if you get screwed over in Texas come here and you’re you’ll be you’ll be good here yeah now at the time I couldn’t because I was under charges so one of the things you’re Texas when you’re under charges you cannot demit

You cannot affiliate that seems to be a tool they use to weaponize their agenda in Texas is to bring charges absolutely and that’s what they’ve been doing uh and that’s what made me lose my cool this year because they they use that Playbook so you were triggered you see

What’s going on and you’re you’re triggered now you’re like oh hell no oh hell no people that they were doing it to were all friends of mine and I saw the Playbook and I would go up to them and be like this is what’s going to

Happen next and they just look at me and like you’re crazy and then it would happen and then I would get phone calls and like how the hell did you know I lifted that t-shirt uh and so the story with with what happened this year is that

Texas has a weird dynamic than most States because we’re actually fully Democratic when it comes to electing our leaders Most states claim that they are but they’re not Most states the Grand Master will appoint the grand Steward or the grand Deacon and if he knows he advances and becomes the great like not

In Texas in Texas n nothing is Progressive you make yourself available for the offensive Grant Junior Ward um and if elected then you progress and if tradition prevails but like you get the vote and every past master in Texas gets a vote so if you presided over a lodge

In Texas you get one vote The Lodges get three so either whoever’s representing the lodge whether it’s the master one of the wardens or the elected proxy he gets a clicker that counts for three votes so the most you can have is for so for example this year I’m worful Master for

The seventh time of a different launch uh and I’m a pass master so I had two clickers one for three one for four so I would get four V and that’s the most any one person can have um and there’s pockets in texes that carry a lot of

Weight and a lot of votes uh the committee on work is one of them uh North Texas I mean it’s just divided into SE separate different groups and usually if you have three of those groups you typically win that’s kind of what my analysis or my breakdown of how

Who gets elected wins and we’ll go back to December of 20 or November of 22 right November of 22 there’s a guy named Jim Rumsey Jim Rumsey is right now the new Grand junior or the grand senior Warden of the grand launch Texas and at the time he was running for Grand Junior

Warden and he was running unap poost this is the first time since 1964 that anybody had run unopposed for the office of gr Junior Warden and we’re like two months away from Grand launch um and at the time Brad Billings was Grand Master of the grand LOD and

Brad very young at the time he was 39 years old I think um youngest Grand Master we’ve had in a long time not ever we’ve had some that been much younger um but back in like 19 dickity to and yeah Brad whether you like him

Hate him uh love him whatever like it is undisputable that he had more activity and more energy brought to the Grand L than any other Grand Master in the last 50 years easy easy probably more in the more in the last 20 years combined I mean Brad did a lot uh

And he embraced new ideas right he was all over social media abely absolutely and and he he did a lot of really good things for the grand launch but he upset some of the past grants even from the gate for for his the way that he did his

Campaign essentially he did not break any laws but he didn’t do a a a traditional campaign for the office of grand Junior Warden and he beat two other guys that were the the favorites to win so there was a four-man race that year and and Brad won and he beat two

Guys that that should have beat him uh so that pissed them off so from the gate Brad had enemies uh in that so fast forward the whole time he’s Brat’s going to the line they’re they’re trying to stop him trying to file charges against

Them to make him not get to the East but it wouldn’t work because the guys that were in front of him in the line didn’t agree with it so Brad’s Grandmaster and they have the past Grandmasters at this point have a slew of charges that they’re going to file against Brad as

Soon he gets out out of office so they approach Jim Rumsey the only candidate running for Grand Junior Warden and ask and tell him we’re going to fou charges against Brad are you on board and his answer is if they’re legitimate yeah and they left it at that well this gets back

To ree Harrison and REE is like no that’s not an answer go ask him again and they went and ask them the same question again back in in November and the answer was the same if they are legitimate I’m on board and that’s not what they wanted to hear they wanted to

Hear yes implicitly no matter what happens even if they’re f false charges you need to be on board right so when you didn’t do that um it kind of blew up out of proportion so in December during our grand chapter and Grand Council session there is a blue house that’s

Like across the street from the side door of the Grand Lodge literally like across the street um and Masons usually rent that and they have a party there during whatever the grand York ride grand chapter session or grand LOD session and there was a party there and

I Jim Rumsey left the party to go to the Grand Lodge building he had a cup in his hand and he tried to open the side door and it was locked but they have him on camera holding a cup and allegedly there was alcohol in that cup now we have a

Law in the grand launch of Texas uh that states that intoxicating Liquors which is why we use that term a lot on the Texas Freemasons um is forbidden in the grand lot Memorial Building or any building occupied by masons in I in right not on thees not on

The building in we had the same exact law in the jurisdiction of Florida right so the fact that it say in not on created a problem because they filed charges against Jim Ramsey a month before he was running for office to be gr Junior Ward for having alcohol on the

Premises so but the only evidence they had was a picture of him holding a cup yeah it was all speculation but uh now was there alcohol in the cup I’m not a betting man but I’m pretty sure there was right but again it is their their

Burden to prove that that he never he never brought it into the building anyways right brought into the building however the guys that at the time were in the grand line so at the time the grand Junior Warden Jim rum or um Ren reer and the at the time Grand senior

Warden Bart Henderson are the ones that filed the original charges against Jim uh that was I mean saw that that was done open Grand L that was before that was before that so like oh okay ahead of yourself right so this was in in in December when that happened did that got

Jim Jim returned the favor and file charges against Bart and rurn for the same thing because he’s like hey I was just a conro lodge two weeks ago and Bart Henderson brought a bottle of wine to the lodge building and in the lodge building presented it to

Rer and said this is from my wife to yours now I was sealed guess what that violates the very law of that they filed against him because they had intoxicating Liquors in the building in the building yeah so whenever he brought those then everybody dismissed the charges Brad Billings was Grand Master

And he just dismissed both sets because he’s like okay well Jim never had it in the building you guys did it was sealed on his mistake dismissed all of them well the past Grand the machine got four guys to run against uh Jim Rumsey that year for GR Junior warden so now we’re

We are in January of 2023 Jim is running for office but the rumor mly Grand Lodge that year spread like wildfire that Jim needed to be unelected because he was a drunk he was an embarrassment to Free Masonry yada yada Jim won in a landslide in a landslide against four other people

He won on the first ballot I think he had like 1,800 votes wow just s them well that’s where you come in and that that video you saw online happened as soon as the new grandm Klay Smith gets install he receives charges that he’s never seen

Before which we could all tell he would that was scripted did a horrible job at reading he read like a toddler like kindergarten or like um and it was it was embarrassing like they they did this in front of all the people that showed up to to have to watch their

Family be installed all these open installation and then they recorded it and put it on YouTube to embarrass Jim now we stopped it from happening right we like Brad billing got up to the microphone at point of order you can’t do this we’re in s yeah I mean so that

Became Infamous yeah uh and the very next day during the executive session they relieved uh Jim from his duties of his from his ceremonial duties as Grand Junior Warden that they couldn’t take his administrative duties so he’s still on the board uh all that meant is basically like if if there’s a

Cornerstone leveling you can’t show up and represent the Grand Lodge you can still wear your apron you still get the title but you don’t get to submit reimbursement for for travel like I mean for several months I think it was like almost six months Jim was like suspended from his duties and in

September like the whole year we had ups in Downs where the Grand Master would do something stupid right Klay Smith told all of his deputies that if he saw them online with a cigar or a intoxicating bever he would remove him as District Deputy grandm it doesn’t matter if it

Wasn’t at lodge or it was if it weren’t wearing Masonic if you were online holding a a uh there’s no law there’s no law that says that that is an issue right no there isn’t right there is so how can you justify that how does he justify that that’s what he wanted to

Say like he want that’s like saying if I see you wear polka dot Someday I’m gonna just remove you as a Mason like you you don’t get to arbitrarily make those rules absolutely you don’t but he did he he thought he was uh he thought he was enti I mean there’s

A lot of things that he after he removed Jim Rumsey he sent out a letter saying like it would be a masonic offense if you discuss what happened with Jim ramsy with anybody you can’t tell me that I’m an adult they did though right but they

Sent it out and then and I didn’t stop talking about it because they can’t that doesn’t violate anything of grandl you can’t give an edict that interrupts my personal life if I want to tell my wife that that you guys are acting crazy and suspending a guy from his like no that

Wasn’t a secret M that was you did something secret but I didn’t you’re not going to stop me from talking that I’m a grown ass man um but that’s kind of what set the toone him the whole year he did stuff like that that just kind of like

You said it started triggering a lot of a lot of uh things that was seen happening and then I approached Brad Billings uh I approached Jim Rumsey I approached Justin dudy Justin dudy at the time was the Grand secretary and he was running for Grand Junior Ward Brad

Billings past grandmas was running for Grand sec secretary and Jim was running for Grand senior Warden and I told all three of them this is what’s going to happen and by the end of the year Brad is going to be brought up on charges for

For some of the things that he did last year Justin’s going to be brought up on charges and they’re going to try to get rid of all of you guys and they all kind of laughed and they said no they have nothing on us they can’t do that okay

Sure it’s going to happen like I didn’t do anything wrong but they filed 12 Masonic charges against something that I did not do so they’ll find something they’ll twist they’ll twist it and and mark my words that they’re going to charge each one of you with is conduct

That brings discredit to masonry because that’s that’s very vague right you could pick your nose and say well that brought discredit to masonry and what are you gonna like it’s speculation and it’s that guy’s opinion so he could file it for that it’s just burden to prove that

But nevertheless if you are under charges for picking your nose because it is unmic’d you can’t be nominated for a position right exactly they basically pause your Masonic career you’re locked out exactly so that’s exactly what they did so in September I was asked to give

A talk um and that’s what I talked about I did was at the Houston festival and the talk was basically just like the trustees and the Machine are using Masonic charges as a way to advance their agenda and that was kind of like the spark that sparked this little

Revolution we created was that talk and everybody that was there kind like within two days everybody in the whole state knew about it I had people from all over the state asking me if they can have copy of it um when was this roughly yeah remember that was September 9th and

That day okay enough one of the things that I said at that talk I said before the end of the month and Brad Billings was sitting right next to me I was like this man Brad Billings is going to be under charges before the end of the year

That man right there Justin dudy is going to be under charges and sure enough that day they fou charges against Brad in Dallas by while we were all having the Fest aboard the machine was filing charges against Brad in some Lodge in Dallas uh so wow that kind of got me

Stirred up and I didn’t like it but but um and people started like well you need to run for Grand Master I don’t have the time like this is crazy yeah and time progressed we go to grand chapter and Grand Council in in uh in December I talked to some of

The powers that be from part of the machine the then Deputy Grand Master Bart Henderson I’d tell him like hey man what you guys are doing is not cool uh you and I are friends Bart you need to kind of talk to the grandm and and cease

Some of the some of the stuff you’re creating a division uh you don’t want a civil war man and his response was you don’t know what you’re talking about you don’t know the whole story and I kind of just laughed I was like par I know the

Whole story better than you think I do uh and he goes well no you don’t I’m like all right well then I might have to prove you wrong one day you don’t know the manufactured story that’s that’s what he’s basically saying couple days lat or that very next day

They had a meeting of the trustees where they tried to fire Justin Duty from office as Grand secretary and it didn’t work I saw it looked like there was some kind of a a report that was given that said actually they couldn’t find any of what he was

Accused of well so this so then this meeting the reason that that Justin got saved is because they brought up during this meeting that the the upper trustees which is not a term to find anywhere in our law this is something that The Grandmaster made up the upper trustees

Became what he called himself as Grandmaster Bart Henderson is Deputy Grandmaster and Raven reer is Grand senior Warden and that like and for some reason by calling them upper trustees he gave them more power than the other three the titles are offensive to me the fact that you have an upper trustee is

Offensive to me me too but I mean he made it up and he made it up just to give them more Credence because our our law clearly states what the trustees are and are the elected officers the grand launch Grand Master Deputy grandmas senior Warden Junior Warden treasur and

Secretary and they run equally there’s no above below high low level exactly and you need you need four of them for a quorum four of them for a majority like that’s how this works if you if you have three guys at a meeting you didn’t have

A meeting if you didn’t notify all six you didn’t have a meeting if you don’t have four people voting in favor of it whatever you voted for didn’t pass well the upper trustees had a secret meeting where they were going to vote to remove Justin Duty from office and approved

That and they hired a very expensive Law Firm to get this done so in this meeting that I’m talking about in December December 8th they that’s when it came up they’re like well we we hired this this law firm and uh and and they discovered that we have rounds to remove them from

Office and this is how we’re going to do it and the treasurer went time out when did you guys approve this oh we had a secret meeting a few months back a secret meeting like you need you need you need all of us there right I wasn’t

Informed of this and then he’s like well we we submitted a bill and you approved it I was like oh this bill this bill for $4,000 no I didn’t approve this I haven’t paid for it because we didn’t approve it and so then when he brought that up

They got mad at him investigation time yeah gotta get rid of him he’s not playing ball so exactly so the very next week they kind of like that failed nothing happened and a week later I’m in Mexico and my phone starts blowing going up and I’m in Mexico because we’re doing

Uh a tall seaters I’m on the board of directors for the tall seaters of Lebanon and we have a house there that we sponsor for kids that are uh that that are abandoned that don’t have mobility issues that we help them most whatever else and we were there from a

Christmas party and and it was a cool time and as I’m getting ready to go to this the day before I mean I’m already there and my phone starts blowing up that they have removed Justin Duty from office and they had filed Masonic charges and they did the same to the Grand

Treasur and the grand Treasure’s reasoning was because he didn’t do a lawful order of the grandm of paying $110,000 worth of legal fees that nobody approved so he got fired for doing his job right for saying like I’m not paying this because the lodge the Grand Lodge

Didn’t vote for this it’s not in the budget right we didn’t approve it as a trustees which the Javas of the trustees is to run the day-to-day operations of the grand launch uh when it’s not in session I I’m not paying it so then they fired him and threatened him with

Charges for the same thing that’s what blew me over the top whenever they got rid of Rick because Rick is he’s in his 80s great guy uh like straight as an nrow he is brilliant with finances uh he’s made a lot of people a lot of money and they attacked

Them just because he didn’t spend the KN and everybody else was a younger Mason right like Jimson is 40s I think Jim’s like 44 45 Justin dudy is 40 41 Brad Billings is 40 uh so I mean so these are all younger Masons that are making themselves available for office those

Four guys that’s four people on the Board of Trustees right so if they get if they stay on if they all get elected they have majority of the board right became d That’s so that’s when I was like nope not hav uh and I published the

First te uh which was about how they they illegally try to remove Justin from office and I talked about the lawyer Fe now you said you published the first T A lot of people listening aren’t going to have any clue what you’re talking about where does that come from so

Um in in the South uh predominant there’s a saying uh that you say spill the tea uh which kind of means like give give us the gossip gossip okay give us the gossip kind that come from is spilling the tea give us the gossip gotcha all right I thought there might

Have been some revolutionary reference to the tea party so then then I also used that together with with the with the talk that I gave on the 9th of September where like I said like if we we’re not careful they could take our Grand Lodge from us but I think A revolution is

Necessary and so it brought both both of those things together about uh Green Dragon Tavern where the Boston Tea Party was was was come up with during a passionate speech and this idea be so I merged the two together and that became the battlecry was the teas the T now the

Week before like during the the when the grand chapter Grand Council session that took place I was installed as conductor of the council for the grand Council of Texas and the guy that’s grandm was a good friend of mine named Aaron zinski and Aaron was accosted by several past Grand Masters

Demanding that he remove me from office because I was a lightning rod and I was bad for the for the grand Council and he shouldn’t have me there right he’s like I’m not removing him he’s he’s a good Mason he’s done a good job uh so that’s

When all those terms kind of like hit together at the same time so I branded the whole tea idea with the spilling the tea the Revolutionary uh aspect to it and the fact that they were going to call me a lightning bolt as as a disc so

I took that away from them uh and and made it made it a positive thing so I started publishing these te’s and every other day or so I would publish an article couple pages long kind of outing something that some of these guys did yeah uh so like some were incredible I

Mean the video the guy peeing in the catering room for example how you even get that where does that come from so um I say the guy that is a past Grandmaster right that’s Rees Harrison this is the this is Rees yes the most decorated powerful Mason in the country

Yeah that’s him with his pants around his ankles and explain that situation a little for people because I found it amazing so I caugh I caught a lot of flag for this but but and and a lot of people a lot of people especially older Masons tried to tell me that that was

Wrong of me to do um and I didn’t do that to embarrass Reese I did that to prove a point because if the if the animal would have been on the other oh would have been completely different as a matter of fact whenever whenever the whole thing came up with Jim Rumsey

About him having the alcohol or whatever reys was trying to get the the the civil law committee to embarrass uh um Jim and they said if we were to the full video of him doing something like we would have destroyed him and this is what ree is telling people like if like

We would had a video of him doing a little bit more we would have shown it to everybody and and that’s why they like I mean his whole idea was to embarrass them so if that would have been any any of us if I would have had

An accident or a similar situation I wouldn’t be a Mason right now because Reese would have Ed that to get me expelled yeah so um that video I I I came through it through through legal uh measures and it happened back in March of 23 and rumors started popping up

About that existing uh and people were talking about it but everybody nobody would say who it was because everybody’s afraid of Reese so people would pop up on Texas Freemasons and say well this happened right so back in April so a month after it happened I made this post

On the Texas Freemason kind of alluding to it and I I became a Freeman of London uh which is an honor that you that’s bestowed upon people by by the the city council and the mayor of London which it’s an old term but it basically says that you have certain rights within

London one of those rights is that you can carry your sheep across London Bridge into into the city of London and you can relieve yourself in public now again it’s a very old uh um honor yeah but old into that saying like well apparently uh re apparently a pass Grand

Master because I didn’t say his name was jealous that I got that so he created his own his own club called pee in the coffee cup um and and so the rumor kind of started fluttering and but nobody would say who his name was um

So I kind of elongated that to be the last thing and as I was going through Mike Wiggins the sgig one of his mentors uh would would tell like no Roberto’s ly that never happened that would never happen at a Scottish right building Mike knew since March that it happened he

Actually ordered that the tape be destroyed um this is so bad on so many levels he like he he he when he was told about it he laughed and they’re like no this is a really big deal because the cater is really upset and he’s like yeah

Well destroy the tape don’t call me don’t bother me with this again hangs up the phone um and all the trust knew the guy that the guy that that Bart Henderson the guy that was going to be Grand Master the deputy Grand Master last year he he knew about it and he

Pretended that he didn’t Brian Dodson pass I mean all these pass Grand Masters knew about it and they just kind of turned their the other cheek to it so what happened when that particular instance is that ree Harrison for many years was the chairman of the valley of

San Antonio which means he ran that building ran that Scottish right and in the kitchen there is a storage room in the back of that uh in San Antonio um there’s a storage room and in the back of that storage room is a bathroom that nobody used so Reese

Always for the whole time that he was personal representative and chairman of the valley of San Antonio used that as his own personal bathroom well about 10 years ago he was retired uh from that office and somebody else became PR and the people that became PR after him

Decided to rent that storage room out to a cater and that cater used his own money to gut it and re uh build it to how he wanted it to and made that into his catering office and in the back of that office there’s that bathroom and he

Wanted to be able to lock the office but he was told like no you cannot lock this office because inside of this office is where the security equipment is for the building so we need to be able to have access to here so we could turn off the

Alarm turn it on uh so the cater is like well then can I like lock the bathroom and put my safe and like important file cabinets he’s like yeah it’s that’s fine and then he also put a camera because it’s like if I have to have the door

Open and unlocked I want to be able to have a camera just if something goes missing I know who who did it well on one of the one of the days uh they were having a St Thomas of acon meeting and in the lodge room and REE Harrison

Needed to go to the bathroom so he passed up three bathrooms from from that particular room to go to his private bathroom right so not one not two but three different bathrooms he passed up because he wanted to go to his private bathroom right so he he trespassed into

Somebody else’s property that that a tenant of the scotus right who uses that room to to prepare food food to have his his like to bring customers in to display food I mean it’s it’s he walked into that room when he found it loed at a spite not at a necessity at a

Spite decided to put a coffee cup next to the coffee pot and other visible like box of cookies or stuff and dropped his pants like a toddler and peed into a coffee cup on video on video now he didn’t know that the camera was there no

Of course not uh but I mean he’s there with the like with the night humilitas and night caratos like collars around his neck which for those of you guys that are not members of St Thomas of acon those are super high honors for uh living your life with humility and

Rectitude of conduct so he’s wearing like the highest Grand Cross of this particular order super Invitational like super hard to get very few people have these orders and these these honors and he’s wearing those as he’s peeing in somebody else’s property that he trespassed out of spite out of spite

Because they locked his private bathroom that that’s just so you released that shocking shocking now this was before your grand law session this year I believe you released Monday before the the session started that Thursday I released that on Monday I lost track of the of the story once your grand love

Started I really I was keeping track of you guys were saying oh this resolution passed or that one didn’t pass I don’t know what those resolutions are so it was tough to follow maybe you could tell us what because you guys went on mass to Grand LOD all of these brothers showed

Up and became that is that is definitely one of the proudest things I I’ve ever I’ve ever done orchestrated in my life um because of the teas and and I’m not saying this to Pat myself on the back or to like it’s a fact like we we created a a I will

Forever have changed the the trajectory of the grand launch of Texas you cannot mention the 188th convention without my name because it’s because of those t’s we had the largest attendance in years like I we tracked it from 2004 which was 20 years ago which was the year that ree

Harrison was Grandmaster by the way uh to to 2024 and this that was the largest attended Grand laod session in those 20 years uh we we had I mean I lost the final number but we had we had 35 3600 votes uh available to to vote and and we

We were playing we were playing High skill chess against people that were playing checkers I mean we dance circles around these people um me and some of my friends and I’m not going to expose them because they don’t need to have any any Flack I’ll I’ll take all the bullets uh

But we created a Playbook I don’t know anyway we we created a Playbook that if if they do this we do this and if they do this we do this and we had scripts and we had lines and just like and they were all followed by law whatever they

One of the main things that they were trying to do was a make sure that Brad Billings and Justin dudy and all these people were not eligible for office right um they were trying to there were proceedings because they’re they were supposed to hold their charges and have

Trials at the Grand Lodge correct they try to do it right before Grand launch right and it was delayed and delayed against because the people I was able to prove connections that shouldn’t have existed so like the guy that was the The Trial Master the judge for for Brat’s

Case had like seven conflicts of interest that would have prevented him from being a judge in a real court right but but they were but he was he was part of their team so he was going to do what they wanted but so they overlooked all those uh

Indiscretions um the guy that was the prosecutor against uh Brad like they had they had just given him a charter for it was a I did a whole another article about that that took place in Austin that just I mean it was it was fishy and

And it was bad and long story short the the different mediums the the the trial was postponed until after Grand launch so we had a resolution that was resolution number 10 which was one of the big ones that was a resolution that was written that stated that if Masonic

Charges are filed against somebody that is running for office the trial had to be handled before the elections and that would take place immediately upon passing so that was the first one that we wanted to make sure that we we did because that would make sure that Brad

Billings the trial would take place that day so we could we could elect them as Grand secretary which was one of the big things we were trying to push um so we pushed for that one um these guys I can just imagine these guys watching this unfold in front of them

Like watching the sand slip through their fingers essentially it was it was a beautiful thing there was this one guy pass past Grand Master Terry stogner I walk into the building and within seconds he like he sees me so I go up to him to shake he’s a pass grandm and I go

Up to shake his hand and he wouldn’t like I stick out my hand and and he’s and he just stares at me I was like you’re not going to shake my hand right worful he goes after what you’ve been publishing on Facebook I’m sticking out

My hand as a as a brother if you choose not to shake it that’s on you not on me you don’t have to like what I published on Facebook but I’m thinking out my hand as a brother so he shook my hand beg gretly and he’s like by the end of the

Week you’re going to have Masonic charges I’m like okay then by the end of the week you’re going to have Masonic charges too two can play this game I got stuff on you too Terry you want to play Let’s play um he left the next day before

Lunch was over um because he just saw you said the sand just falling through his fingers um so he left and he was very distraught wow that because it Texas Masons came to play I mean they were tired and like we were overwhelmingly turning I mean the we we

Voted down the grand Masters report now people always like what does that mean well if you we didn’t ratify his actions that’s what that means that means that unless he submitted a a supplementary report that we approved that means everything he did this year did he did it without our

Consent so we did not approve that so all the all the all the Mayhem that he cost on record is we didn’t like it you were back and that that I don’t think I’ve ever heard of that happening before in any jurisdiction have you no and and

And we did that like we we we turned down there was a there was an audit report that we turned down as well that the audit the audit committed guy came in there and basically just Defan Brad Billings he was just like Brad Billings

Is a is a is is a fraud he should be in prison I mean essentially he used big words to make it sound like that and then he was called he’s like you can’t just be throwing around accusations like that and he came back like I never said

That he was a fraud he just did a lot of fraudulent things since should be in prison for uh and then but he gave his report and just basically defame Brad Billings and say that he did all these things that weren’t okay and then during the discussion another member of the audit

Committee came up and be like um we should vote this down because there’s eight of us I think he said on the on the audit committee and not one of us other than him saw any of the stuff that he’s asking for so like the rest of us

Do not agree with that he’s putting our names on our report we are not in favor of that half of that stuffs are either lies or things that he fabricated or things that we didn’t find or we didn’t even get get to look at so didn’t pass yeah so it didn’t pass

Like overwhelmingly like I think like 93% uh know for that Jim got office right yeah so so Jim was already Grand Junior Warden he Advanced uh the deputy grandmas which a lot of people now are having buyers not buyers remorse but a lot of people are now like their guilt

Setting in because the guy that was Deputy grandmas did not move up to grandm we we elected a pass grandmas uh for that office um and a lot of people were having guilt about that and Bart is a really good guy Bart Henderson the guy that was Deputy Grand

Master the guy unelected he was a really good guy he’s been a friend of mind for years but Bart was led astray by the then Grandmaster Kay Smith by ree Harrison and by past Grandmaster Brian doson he was doing their bidding doing what they wanted and they are the ones

That cost him his Grand mastership so well you have to be careful who you associate with because it’s that I mean he did their bidding so like Bart is a great guy but he did not do very good things last year right he followed what they what they what they told him he

Needed to do and and it’s a shame because I mean I would have loved to seeb Grandmas I was looking for for to that but this this past year proved that it wasn’t going to be Bart in the in the grand East it was going to be ree

Harrison and Brian Dawson uh again and those guys were going to do whatever they wanted to and they were going to attack other people and we were going to have what we had this past year with Kay Smith on steroids with Bart so it was going to be bad the state

Wouldn’t have survived that I feel like you guys would have fractured off and tried to form a second Grand Lodge and it would have been a hot mess I don’t know what would have happened but it would have not been good so so so we stopped that and and and again uh I’ve

Been I’ve been in Communications with with other people about that uh because I mean some people are like well I feel really bad for Bart you know I do too but I mean like that’s not what my intention was my intention was not to break Bart’s heart I mean Bart and I are

Good friends I right right there it’s a picture of him installing me as president of the master wardens and secretaries Association I mean you B are friends but what but there’s there’s a line and that line is called integrity and like you could be my friend but if

You cross that line where you’re not doing what you’re supposed to be doing or if you’re doing like then that’s when friendship needs to be questioned then a good friend is going to tell you look dude you’re you’re and you need to rectify that or or we’re gonna have issues right and I

Did I went up to Barton I told him hey dude like I don’t like what you’re doing what you’re doing is not wrong and his response was you don’t know what you’re talking about okay then I guess I’ll show you what I’m talking about let’s start typing

Um so Brad is now the grand secretary yep Brad is the like we we had we I had I I say we I had 29 things on my agenda to to accomplish at Grand Lodge 28 of those things happen uh what was the one you missed getting a new Deputy grandm

The the guy that was senior Warden did get elected as as um as Deputy so he Advanced the grand West voted to give him another another shot uh it wasn’t it was close right I mean uh so he didn’t he didn’t win overwhelmingly but the the grand West voted to give him another

Shot so I I have confidence that he’s going to do the right thing this year but if he doesn’t I’ll be back um so I mean how much do you think the message was received by the machine oh absolutely absolutely I that it’s over or do you think they’re trying in the

Background trying to rebuild some kind of a momentum I know they’re going to try to find a way to to f my Sonic charges against me or come after me one way shape or form like I mean I’ve already showed him that I’m not a bull

You mess with right I wish I come at me um come at me bro yeah come at me bro I like I I got I got plenty of ammunition like I did not use my most important stuff like I I kept that for a rainy day

Yeah uhart so I if I’ve learned with these people well of course if you’re part of the Mexican Mafia you would know how to do this right obviously but I mean um I got a I got a friend who’s from Mexico and uh every time I hang out

With him he brings tequila and I never remember the end of the night son of a I mean always he he’s gotr private reserve stuff coming from Mexico that’s like wow really really good tequila they know what they’re doing in Mexico actually I’m trying to get him on

The show but he’s like oh they won’t understand my accent I said look if anyone gets mad about your accent I don’t want them as a listener on the show anyway so he’s going to be on the show I like that man I I really think that they’re

They’re trying to regroup um I think they got most of them did I mean because you you you had to have blown that message like I mean that’s why some people were leaving early I mean and across the board Mike Wiggins the sgig The Sovereign Grant Inspector General

The head of the scotus right in Texas ran for the library Museum office and got his ass handed to him by like 70% vote against him for a non-pass grandm Don comedy who’s a great guy great Mason like slaughtered him uh for the so like he

Beat a pass grandm in the sgig like that’s huge in any jurisdiction right like the head of the Scottish right in that particular State just lost a committee for a a board of directors for the liary museum building uh to a regular pass master like to a guy that

Doesn’t have a resume a mile long I mean Don is very active but he he his resume does not compare to Mike Wiggins and again Don ran from the floor he didn’t he didn’t have a statement of availability printed in the program like he was from the floor 70% of the books

Wow that’s crazy yeah they they they got the message they got the message now if they’re going to heed that’s up to them it’s up to the brothers to stay vigilant now because they’ve seen what’s going to happen when you lose attention and when you let

People just run wild and you don’t ask questions and you don’t check behind people they’ve seen that what’s going to happen and the reason I’m so excited to have you on our show is because we’re we have listeners all over the all over the world in different countries that listen

I’ve been talking to guys in England and Australia and we all have similar problems wherever we go the problem is the men the men are the problems in our fraternity and and when the problem is at the top you can guarantee that it is trickling down throughout the entire

System absolutely guarantee it’s G to happen so if you don’t hold the people at the top accountable you can pretty much kiss your entire jurisdiction goodbye because it is going to slowly devolve into Lord of the Flies all right that’s what it’s gon to happen and U you

Know and I’m really proud because in the jurisdiction of Florida they asked us not to talk about this of course but we had a Grandmaster who after his year was brought up on charges and expelled from the fraternity for the actions and also some of his cohorts for for the actions

That he did as Grandmaster um and you know a lot of people are embarrassed by that that to me means we’re doing our jobs like right somebody looked into something they found something they acted on it it got taken care of that’s how the system supposed to work you

Shouldn’t be embarrassed by that um that’s a good thing um it’s not like somebody trumped up some charges and they you like you know slammed a fake trial here I mean these were things that were well known were going on and it’s happened everywhere I mean there there was a

Grandmaster um from Alaska that got keep kicked out I think last year or the year before last he was grandm I want to say like in 2014 and he was one of like the biggest deals in Alaska he was a fourar general uh for those that don’t know

What that means pass Grand Master pass Grand high priest pass Grand Commander Pass Grand uh Master of the council um really big deal was a member of the great PR of America like one of the the biggest deals in in in Alaska and he got kicked out two years ago because he had

Essel like $750,000 from different Masonic organizations there like yeah those people should not be part of the fraternity but it’s this is a story of we need to be res like always on Watch and it’s every brother’s individual job to protect the fraternity from bad actors every one of us is responsible

For that you cannot say it’s the DD GM’s job or it’s the grandmaster’s job no if you saw it you’re responsible for it act on it do something about it that was exactly my battlecry for this year I mean I I walked around and I told anybody that would listen and I

Published part of that uh on on one of my te’s the one the last day of the grand line so a week ago Saturday uh but my Battle Cry was like look we take all these obligations and we have all this pretty ritual that tells us to be proud

Of our apron and we there’s nothing higher than that Lance King and we should wear that with a badge of a Mason and and be proud to have that on and y y y right but at the end of the day if we’re not following the precepts if

We’re not following the teachings that Freemasonry is doing to us then we’re not wearing that apron with equal pleasure to ourselves in honor to the fraternity we’re merely man playing dressup we’re collecting all these Badges and all these things we’re just playing dressup we’re just like look at

Me on the sh look at all this shiny new stuff that I have and and and and you look like my 5-year-old little girl with her princess out like I mean exactly all dazzled yeah right so like that’s what that’s what we become if we’re if we’re

Not going to follow the precepts if we’re not going to do what a Mason says we’re supposed to do then we’re just playing dress up we’re just a bunch of parrots playing pretend there was a great article I shared the other day and I got I I got some interesting comments

On it when I shared it but it basically said imagine if we stopped introducing people by their titles and started introducing them based on their character traits imagine if instead of we said this is right most worshipful Roberto Sanchez which automatically people start to treat you differently because of a

Title sure this is Brother Roberto Sanchez he’s done this this this he’s he’s active in there and there and there they get to know who you are based on your actions that title means nothing about who you are as amazing oh I agree and and people comment on that and say

You need to respect titles and this is a serious thing and I I agree we do respect the titles we rever the titles and the positions but the men shouldn’t be judged based on the titles they should be judged based on their actions respect is earned and I’m I’m an admin

Believer of that I had one of the past Grand Masters that we just spanked this time uh he he told me several years ago that like because he didn’t like that I would address to certain past Grand Masters or past Grand this and that as as brother such and such but in the

Jurisdiction of Florida our our Masonic iate book says that’s always a valid title to use regardless no we can use it too but if I if we were sitting in a in a in a hospitality room in Dallas after some function oh they still want you to

Use the title like he wanted me to I’m going to uh like I’ll call you brother such and such or I mean like I’m not going to kiss your ass and tell you hey right worshipful sir like no if I respect you I might but just because you

No no no no no no no like at lodge oh yeah I’ll be the first person to to call you that and if somebody doesn’t I’ll be the first person to correct them right but if we’re at a hospitality room and we all have a scotch in our hands and

And and you walk in and and uh and I shake your hand and I’m like hey what’s up Tommy and you go no no no that’s right worshipful past Grand M no no no no no go go eat something like um get out of here yeah you you really do like

Um I was pretty involved in Freemasonry in Florida um and I went to a lot of official functions and I I’d bring my wife to the ones that were important to me and she would always ask me why are they clapping for these people like what

Have they done and I’m like not much not much really she’s like why are you clapping I’m like I don’t know this is just what we do we if they have a title we clap and if you got a really high title we clap special like that’s how we

Are it really is not a lot about who you are as a person or what you’ve done as an individual it’s very title driven and that’s a weird thing because the fraternity is not about that it really is it’s not supposed to we’re all on theel we teach that like so it’s not

Like we’re on the level and some of us are on on the same level more on the level of than other it’s like no no no we are all on the level right everybody equal yeah it’s it’s no you don’t get to be a little higher because you have a

33rd or because you have you’re P like no no no no no we’re all on the level right that that’s one of my favorite stories and I mean I’m I’m I’m gonna have to cuss on this one because that’s part of the story all right but my uh my

Wife I met my wife through Mason uh my mother-in-law when I first met yeah like my when I was when when I joined masonry my mother-in-law uh was their whole my whole in-laws are very active in masonry right like my my father-in-law has been all sorts of titles in masonry my

Mother-in-law was a couple years ago she was the international uh president for the social order of bosean Supreme worthy prent I think is the official title uh so like they’re very very enthal and masonry and they’re very active in the night’s Temple section of it so we used to drill

And long story short my mother-in-law would always tell me like you need to meet my daughter for 10 years she told me that until we finally did and that’s how I met my wife so um fast forward and we are and I’m not going to mention the

Name because I don’t want to embarrass anybody but we were at a function where we there were round taes but we were one of the head round taes and was me my wife past Grandmaster of of of an organization the sitting Grandmaster of an organization the a past Grandmaster of the grand

Launch of Texas the sitting Grand worthy matron of Eastern Star my mother-in-law my father-in-law and me right that’s what sitting at the table and my wife is really good friends and really likes hanging out with this particular past Grandmaster of this National body okay uh and each other they hang out and and

I mean my wife is 35 at the time she must have been 30 um and if you don’t mind me asking I’m 40 okay uh young very young in Freemasonry for everything you’ve done I hit the ground running I hit the ground running um and anyways

Like this this man is inocent of a KN right so they’re but they’re good friends and my he’s he’s very intellectual my wife really likes him and in the middle of their conversation like they gabbled because we were going to do a prayer so we St we stop the

Conversation we do the prayer we sit back down and as soon as we sit back down my wife puts his her hand on on the past grandmaster’s shoulder and says his name and says okay such and such where were we and to continue the conversation and the sitting Grandmaster of the

Organization goes and he just kind of clutched his pearls and he’s like we don’t call him by his name his name is past Grandmaster such and such we use the correct title here we don’t call him by his name and my wife looked at him

Dead in his face and he go I don’t play your Club this is my friend such and such and I’m not going to address him for anything other than that I don’t have any obligations to you I’m not part of club I’m not part of game so anyways

And just continue to talk your wife and my wife would get along so well and it it was a beautiful thing because like the past Grand Master Texas just looks at me and starts laughing the worthy matron is kind of starts doing this my mother-in-law is like underneath the table now because

She uh because she just told the grandm of this International order uh because she tried to use like he tried to tell my wife like you use the titles for him she’s like no not even a little bit she’s not even a member of the fraternity why why would she have to use

A title but but because most women do like and they’re trained to do that they do you’re right and and my my mother-in-law’s adamant about that like she’ll see one of these like hi grandmas hi and she knows all everybody’s title and and it’s a respect thing and I mean

And I can respect that uh but I guess that’s her choice and if that’s how you choose that’s cool so if if I want to call you most worshipful or right worshipful because I believe you’ve earned that title in a social setting I’ll do it because that’s what I do to

People that I admire and respect uh but if I don’t don’t expect me to call you that uh if we’re at a hospitality room uh at a banquet maybe right because a banquet that’s still kind of like a masonic thing so I might I might extend you that

No uh we’re on the level so I mean that’s a great story I mean I’m I my wife I just recorded uh the last episode with her and we did a whole hour and 20 minutes about what it’s like to be the wife of a Mason and the sacrifices and

The challenges and all that and uh going to an event and 18 old ladies asking you to join their we need you we need young people and uh all that um but you know moving forward looking at the future of Texas do you feel you got to feel more proud

And and excited for the future at this point than maybe you have in the last 5 10 years right oh absolutely absolutely I mean like we proved this past weekend that we matter our voice matters and it’s not just a bunch of people in a purple tower that are going to make the

Decisions of what happens at our grand this is a democratic fraternity our country was built on the principles of Freemasonry so if you’re a Democrat not a Democrat obviously that’s son I’m sorry I’m talking to a guy in Texas but if you’re into democracy and you like the idea of our country

Then you got to respect that in the fraternity because that’s where it originated from and I brought a I brought a new guy uh Sean Cooney he’s now the junior warden in my Lodge to Grand Lodge last year for the first time and he didn’t have a lot of background

But he came in and saw the legislation taking place and The Grandmaster put forth legislation that the craft shot down The Grandmaster tried to revise it they still shot it down it didn’t pass they just didn’t want it and this is a good grandm Master he was trying to do a

Good thing he was trying to raise the level of our dress in The Lodges uh but that can be a sticky subject you know because people come from work and people work you know on a farm in some parts of Florida like it’s really tough to say

Everybody’s got to wear a suit um and it didn’t pass nobody wanted it and he saw that he came out jaw dropped like whole I I just saw I think democracy for the first time in my life like people voted on something and everybody had a voice

And at the end of the day everybody shook hands and loved each other nobody was upset or pissed at anybody like that’s the way it went okay let’s move forward you know that’s how we got to work on that legislation and try to find something that they will like obviously

Uh it’s not a dead issue but it’s not going to pass the way it was and that’s like what happened in Texas the voice of the people should dictate what happens not a few people in a back room having secret meetings not telling anybody making back room deals trying to squash

People’s Masonic careers if they don’t play ball with them and that’s happening even at the lodge level even in a blue Lodge I mean happen I’ve experienced it myself in a blue Lodge yesterday I was on a call with a brother who knows me and called just to tell me his story and

He has been basically squashed masonically and threatened uh for trying to do what’s right because the people around him are part of the machine and and they’re linked to the Top If you if you connect the dots it all starts the top and that’s how he did it that’s

What we’re gonna yeah it’s it’s a vicious game with a vicious cycle and and I’m not standing for it and you shouldn’t either I mean this I’m really hoping that this movement that we had in Texas this this little tea party we that that we threw ourselves uh carries on

Texas is one of jurisdictions in the world and if we were able to do this in Texas you can do this anyway okay but you do have to have a outgoing personality you have to not give a about the negative crap that’s going to be heaped upon you which most people

Don’t have the the fortitude for that let’s be honest you do and Texas had you and a few other people uh but I know I see it people aren’t willing to fight they don’t want they don’t have the fortitude or the or the courage to stand

Up and take it and you are going to get it trust me if you stand up against the machine no matter high how high or low it is you’re going to catch some and people are going to they’re going to attack your reputation it will happen and you have

To have the fortitude to take that hold your head high and show up the next day fighting the good fight right and and and I might kick myself for saying this later but I’ll say it now like if anybody needs help in any jurisdiction come find me I will help um we’re in

This together Brothers I mean it’s it’s it’s it’s a thing so I mean I’m I’m here to stand up for for justice for integrity for doing what’s right in our fraternity because I believe in The Valleys that we teach I believe in the precepts that it does because my biggest

Thing like the biggest reason that I push for this is that I now have a new son right I have I have a 14-month-old son right now that that was born um in November of 22 congratulations thank you and first born well second I I have a

Little girl that’s five but I have a son right and and my daughter cannot be am Mason but my son can and I am an adamant believer that this fraternity we did not inherit this fraternity from our forefathers I we did not inherit this from George Washington and and Paul rier

We are borrowing it from our sons right so I want to make sure this fraternity gets passed down to my son it’s something that he could be proud of and say you know what my dad was a member of this fraternity and my grandfather from mother’s side because my my dad wasn’t

But my and my son will be like an eighth or ninth generation Mason through his mom’s side um but that’s something that I want him to be be proud of and to be able to inherit or get a fraternity that I’m borrowing from him that way when he’s Amazon it’s

Something that he can be proud of and that we’re actually teaching the teachings uh and and practicing what we teach and it’s so important because we can lose it we’ve lost it we’ve already lost it in some places and it can be gone in your Lodge it can be gone in

Your jurisdiction if you don’t be careful um and and these people wrap themselves in power they they surround themselves with an aura of esteem with titles right uh and they lean on the on those very people that we all look to like George Washington and the and the

Founding fathers that were that were Freemasons and say I’m like that guy and that’s how they get credibility again it should be about what have you done though what have you done though like who have you helped other than yourself and your family and your friends who have you helped that’s

What I want to know did you help grow did you help in charity in your community like what have you done though because you don’t get to Point at those guys this is our time we’re alive now this is our fraternity right now we’re holding the torch like you said

We’re we’re holding the torch for our kids coming behind us if they choose to do that hopefully they do hopefully we give them a reason to exactly and I think that you know with the in with the people turning more to social media more modern forms of communication um video conference calls

Like this podcast like we can coordinate and communicate better now than probably at any point in the history of the fraternity absolutely and that scares some people oh for sure pay attention to who’s scared by that because that’s going to give you a little clue as to

Where the problems might be oh for sure there’s nothing wrong with talking to each other and coordinating and sharing IDE IDE is uh there should be nothing wrong it should be encouraged by our leadership uh for brothers to communicate with each other and help each other uh if anyone’s afraid of that

Oh that’s yeah that’s a canary in the coal mine right there I think uh and it’s something people should take a close walk shutting down you can’t talk about this you can’t say that okay something Shady’s going on there you should know that immediately don’t don’t

Fall prey to the titles and the people saying it and I’m not against the leadership okay like I don’t want to come across like the there were just like you’re just having a a beat on the trustees party and and no no no no no you guys

Are doing stuff that’s that’s shady you guys are trying to keep us in the dark and that’s one of the things that happened that you probably didn’t see because you didn’t make it out to you but about a week before um the grand laun section there was a letter that

Went out to every Texas Mason through Grand View uh from the deputy Grandmaster um telling all Texas Masons that like basically don’t look behind the curtain the the the allegations that are being thrown out there are unfounded and and and don’t listen there’s there’s somebody that’s trying to dismantle us

From within because jealous of what we’re creating what you’re seeing isn’t really happening what you’re hearing is all fake like don’t don’t look behind the curtain like don’t don’t pay attention to the evidence that that he’s already uh provided you don’t look that way like just trust does we’re we’re

Cohesive we’re working for your everybody everybody’s good nice friends and people laughed at that it was it was a joke they put out a statement before your grand LOD session that was a total joke oh absolutely and I was going to respond to it and I didn’t have to no

You just read it you could see how bad it was by reading the words that were written in that stat it was a joke and that was that was that was that was Bart’s nail in the coffin that’s what that’s what and everybody against them

Was that one if anybody was on the fence uh that that pushed them over because it it showed that they had no remorse with what they were doing and that they were going to keep doing their stuff and it was trust us the government’s here to help you while while they’re like caring

The head of your like dead grandmother on their shoulder like um servant leadership we’re here we’re supposed to be doing servant leadership like we serve the population the brothers absolutely and you answer to that you you hold a seat for a short time and you’re already flawed as a man

You you should already know that so you got to be watching out for the fact that you when you have power you might abuse it and these guys that lean into it and are empowered by it you know like I I was told you I was talking to a brother

Yesterday who’s dealing with it in his lodge and it involves his district deputy and it involves people with gold collars as well and I said just get out of the lodge man you can’t win this fight you just need to go to another Lodge and try to find some people that are

Real Masons to surround yourself with or you’re not going to be a mason in a few years you’re going to get burnt out you’re going to be hating you’re gonna be hating your involvement that you through the day you even join this fraternity if you don’t get away from

That right now uh you need to get out find a better Lodge regroup get yourself some good people and you know have a better experience in the fraternity unless you’re willing to be a voice are you willing to do this and this and this said no I said get a just

Go get another Lodge just just leave uh cuz he tried charges and that didn’t work yeah so you really have nowhere else to go at that point just just get a new home and uh and we need to be out here talking about the fact that this is going on everywhere in our

Fraternity and it shouldn’t be something that’s brushed under the rug or allowed to happen we got to fight back um and we fight back using you guys did not break a sing single rule in what you did in the jurisdiction of Texas everything was done in order at

Grand Lodge as per the digest of your grand LOD right yeah we out LED them every step of the way so we came we came prepared we that that Playbook saved usan because every we had a if they do this we do this and it was just by for

Whatever resolution for whatever fight we were fighting it was tabbed and organized oh we yeah we came prepared uh and it was said so after the meeting after the meeting we were told that they were the a lot of the lawyers and some of the past Grand Masters assembled at

The uh at the one of the committee rooms in the back and one of the lawyers went like look they they beat you at your own game they out lawyered the lawyers and and they made fools of you they spanked you at your own game because they came prepared you underestimated Roberto and

His team um and I mean I had a hell of a team again I’m not going to say their names because I don’t want them to get attacked like let the bullets come to me but uh I I the my my the people that work with me um they deserve a lot of

The credit cuz there was a lot of us there was a lot of us and a lot of them put their their uh Masonic careers on the line because some of them were more focal than others right there were some that were working behind the scenes but

There were a lot of them that were standing up at the podium and holding on to the little scripts that we would give them and reading their their portion of of their things to make their argument and whatever and well I’m planning to have um Dennis Yates and possibly Justin

Jones do you know these brothers yeah those are they run a podcast themselves Dennis uh was was very boisterous about some of the things that happened Dennis is a good dude so is Justin they’re they’re great guys they’re they’re planning to come on um actually we’re probably going to be recording this

Weekend so they’ll have their their point of view on all this too there there are people not afraid to to step forward with you yeah Dennis Dennis and Justin for sure we were uh were were some of the the guys from the beginning that help help me get the get

Get the message message out there they had me on their podcast when was it I want to say in December maybe I don’t remember either November or December yeah before Grand lunch they had me on their podcast to kind of um the word out of some of the things that

Were happening and then they had another uh podcast where they had me on with uh brother fluff if you’re not familiar with him he runs a very successful Tik Tok account okay uh like I don’t know several thousand followers nice uh so we we had one with him I we’ve had several

We got the out so was many Texas Masons could uh could know what was happening I personally I try to follow all these podcasts and and support them because um I you know if you’re an outsider you’re going to look at that as competition and you you’re going to like kind of be

Jealous but as a brother we’re supposed to rejoice in each other’s successes and all these people are trying to bring light to the fraternity so we should be supporting each other that’s how we should act as brothers now you have risked your Masonic career um you’ve risked your personal

Reputation uh you are still risking that to this by coming on this podcast and talking about what you’ve talked and and what you’ve said publicly online you’re well aware of that and you just made a very magnanimous offer that if anyone in any jurisdiction is feeling like they’re being persecuted wronged or they’re

Witnessing UNM Masonic Behavior they can reach out to you for help how would they reach out to you um easiest way to find me would be Facebook um Roberto M Sanchez you you’ll see me I’m wearing my uh um my high1 12 uh International vice president caller

On there uh would it be okay if I shared your Facebook URL with with okay um you get you also email me as well um Roberto at high1 12.org Roberto high1 12.org 12 spelled out right number 12 no I hi G and then the number 12 the number 12

Okay number 12 U and I mean you can go to the high 12 um web page and my my email will be there as well U at Roberto a2. org um you can email me there and I answer emails probably very uh very quickly excellent those those the two

Ways to get that actually could provide some hope to some people out there that don’t the the way they WI is by isolating you or making you feel isolated and so to have somebody that they can like this brother I talked to yesterday I can’t really fix his

Problems for him but he knew me because I’m locally known uh and he just needed to talk to somebody about what to do and um I think a lot of people are in that situation they don’t know they don’t have a friend they’re afraid to talk to

Anybody in fraternity about it for fear of the repercussions if they tell somebody what they said uh and so so they stay quiet to themselves and they take it or they leave the fraternity which is and that usually is the goal yeah one thing we don’t need is be driving men

Out because we’re but right seems to be happening at break next speed in many jurisdictions for sure um that that seems to be one of the the I mean if somebody does something that they shouldn’t be am Mason four then yeah like definitely file charges against them and get that’s what they’re there

For but I mean and like as you mentioned there those trials aren’t always Fair as you know right no and it’s happened more and more often where people are just being uh the Char like in my case when the charges were father against me like they kept me in purgatory for years

Hoping that I would just quit and and in Texas we have this thing called as a as a form three where form three is a voluntarily exposion when you have charges filed against you you just find a form three really submit that done yeah and that’s what they were hoping I

Mean every every couple months I would get a letter from the grand secretary saying do you just want to form three and I’m like no I’m fighting this to The Bitter End like I time’s on my side I’m young let’s do this that’s right and like but they were hoping that I

Would just quit halfway through because that’s what they were hoping would just happen is that I would just leave and I wouldn’t be their problem and and and they did that more often than not and a lot of people just say okay yeah like this isn’t worth it because they hadn’t

Invested that much time by the time the charges had B against me I’d already been Amazon for 10 years and I’ve already had invested a lot and that’s um I think that’s maybe how you’ve insulated yourself from repercussions is you have um accomplishments and achievements um that could perhaps you

Know show people who you are um well uh so let’s talk about that um they they did try to stop me from getting some of these accomplishments and achievements because again when the oh they will well well they tried originally right like when when the first charges were filed

Against me back in 2014 like I was I was an up andc Comer right but I was I was a I was not a somebody like a young man in his 20s I was 29 years old when all this stuff happened like maybe just turned 30

Like uh I just proposed to who the person who was now my wife like I was I was like I was a takeoff yeah so they had like I didn’t have all these Grand titles and everything else those came later um but because I wasn’t going to

Let them take that and some of those I I my motivation was like well they’re not going to take this away from me I don’t like the titles I don’t care about the titles but if that’s what’s going to for me to get some credibility like let’s do this um and I mean

And I’ve done fairly well for myself a Sonic and here we are right but I mean it it a lot of the ones that I do have is because that’s how I was able to get a little bit of credibility because I mean I I’m a young mason I’m 40 years

Old I’ve been a Mason for 18 years um but I mean I I hit the ground running because I really like what this organization offers and it has taught me a lot I think to our world this organization um and we can’t we can’t let it slip away like I said it’s we’re

The guys that are active right now and it’s it’s on us to keep it or improve it if we can and I think that’s what you’re really looking to do is improve it uh people people often fear this idea because young guys I say young I’m 48

But in this fraternity that’s young um they look at us as young and trying to change things but the change we’re trying to make isn’t making it into something different or new it’s trying to make it into what it’s supposed to be what it was to bring

It back to former chory that’s the change we’re trying to make we’re not I wrote a whole book I wrote a whole book about that uh the true Masonic experience um it was it was it started out as a study of of where the fraternity was so you wrote a book that

People can get on Amazon or something called true Masonic experience true Masonic experience all right I’ll go get a copy and it started with with my journey in masonry because I was very disappointed when I joined masonry and what I expected uh now my Lodge was in

Transition we had just sold the building so that’s kind what I believe there was the reason it was down but when I joined what I expected to cut out of it was not what I got yeah like I expecting the the fraternity that George Washington and Paul and Warren all these people were

Proud to be members and what I got was SP yeti on paper plates and reading minutes home and and and I expected everybody to know their work and nobody knew what they were doing and it was atrocious and my Lodge had an average attendance of maybe like seven or eight

People uh attending a stated meeting and I started implementing some of these older traditions and and more traditional aspects of Freemasonry and by the time I was mastered like I had a meeting with 120 people imagine attending my average attendance was in the 80s so we went from having seven

People uh and in six seven years by the time I became Master of the lodge we had 80 as an average and you didn’t do that because you brought in Circus performers and goats and strippers you did it by trying to be a Mason right yeah I I I did a lot of

Research and spent a lot of time figuring out what masonry used to be and we we did the precepts uh the biggest thing I mean and I talk about it heavily in the book is that I created this concept where I interviewed thousands of Masons and I asked them I don’t care why

You became a Mason because everybody’s story is going to be a little bit different why are you still active and what I discovered it was it was one of four things which is like what I kind of dubb the quadrant and that quadrant kind of formul the fact that Masons are

Active for one of four reasons or multiple of those four uh whether it be the ritual the philanthropy the fellowship um and those four quadrants whatever you fall into that Circle if you really like participating in in the community and helping out uh the community then you focus particularly on the

Philanthropy part like a lot of Shriners do that right because they want to be able to be part of an organization so that’s what they that’s what they formulate on if you really like the rituals and and belonging to a lot of groups and and doing and Performing the

Worful Masters part in all the degrees and then and collecting all the little trinkets from all the then you gravitate towards that part if you like the historical and philos philosophical part where you like I want to know why we do that motion and why we we use those

Emblems and then you focus more into like L as of research or just deep down phical studies uh or if you like the fellowship if you just like having a place where you can go and be with your friends right that’s and if you have a lodge that actually encompasses all four

Of those those are the more active and more successful lodges because you’ll have something for everybody right um and that’s what I brought to my Lodge and it was a formula that worked because we had something for somebody whatever it was in that in that quadrant whether you were philosophy ritual uh fellowship

Or or philanthropy there was something for you and a lot of people fall into like multiple things right where they like two or three or even all four of them but if you offer that that that’s what grows I mean in when I was Master my first time uh that Lodge had table

Lodges and Chambers of reflection for the degrees and and and we brought back a lot of traditions we we uh talked about the Excellence of dress and what that actually means and uh yes it is the internal not the external y y y but I mean you’re still showing respect to the

Institution so if you are willing to show up to your daughter’s wedding in in a wife beater and shorts then okay walks the same way but if you would be embarrassed doing that there then you should be embarrassed doing that yeah and you’re showing true respect to the

Institution and if you come from work and you’re wearing overalls and that’s the only way you can well then come to lots that way my brother we’re not going to stop you right but if you do have time and if you do then and if you would

Be embarrassed showing up that way to your daughter’s graduation or your son’s christening or insert special event here uh like that’s the kind of reverence you should hold to the fraternity um so I cover all that in the book and and it was a formula that I use from my Lodge

That again those people didn’t show up in numbers to see me I’m nothing special they were get there to see what the lodge was offering and the lodge was offering free masonry right which is something me and a 97 year old man will have in common or me and an 18y old man

Will have in common is that we join this fraternity is that we wanted something to do with Freemason whereas the 90-year-old man might want to watch a uh a program on how to write a will and the 60-year-old man might want to watch one on how to check your prostate but the

18y going to be like right right it’s but if you have a program on Freemasonry you know what the 60y old the 90y old the 40y old and the 18y old are going to be like this is cool yep because that’s something we all have in come one thing

Uh I just finished being master of my Lodge I’m finally out one month out and loving it but um one thing I did was uh people always say the business meetings are boring and I know they are um but you you have to do that business so I

Would always bring a 25 gift card and like six trivia questions that I prepared and as soon as it was getting boring to me we did Masonic trivia and it was a game everybody played and you raised your hand if you had the question you went west of the altar uh and you

Waited until we had another contestant who’ win go west of the Altar and then those two guys would play heads up for trivia for the $25 gift card so everybody had a chance to win money everybody thought it was fun and entertaining and it only takes 10

Minutes or less if you have good people but they’re learning the whole time and they don’t even realize it so you got to try to think creatively about how to like you said how to integrate these different things uh because in like trivia for example is just what you said

A masonic program it’s all Masonic trivia and it’s amazing how many people with gold callers or District deputies don’t know the most basic things about Freemasonry you see it when you start asking trivia questions ask what the landmarks of free masonry are and you’ll see go

Like do you w better ask any American Freemason we talk about you give three distinct knocks upon the outside of the door when you’re getting admission ask any random find any grandmas in in in the in any Grand jurisdiction in the United States and I challenge them to

Tell me what those three knocks are I guarantee you most of them won’t be able to give me that answer well in uh in the jurisdiction of Florida we tell them in the Entered Apprentice lecture that it presents certain passage of scripture sure but that’s what it that’s

What but but again the there’s a sequence right and I’m not this is a public forum so I’m not GNA give there there is there is an actual there is a secret knock that most Americans don’t know but if you go to Europe or if you go to Canada even

Mexico uh if you’re late to Lodge the Tyler doesn’t knock you knock and so Ty just tells you like it’s an EA knock in that fashion oh they want to see if you know if they want to see you know most masons in America wouldn’t know they’d

Just be like yeah you just knock three no yeah there’s a there’s actual knock fur every degree and and it’s associated with with right a certain passage in scripture and it and and it’s tell there’s a lesson it’s a lesson that we kind of diluted here in American ritual

That we don’t talk about that the rest of the world still does right so again I challenge most brand Masters what those that those knocks are uh and if and if some of them can I mean come find me I’ll buy you a drink but uh and it’s not

It’s not anything you can say publicly right right okay yeah because it’s a secret knot right so if I tell you what the with the KN are I mean then then you’re you’re gonna have random people that watch your podcast they be like I know the secret I’ll I’ll delete my own

Podcast if I give away a secret on the air there you go but Robert man I appreciate you coming on hour and a half you gave us really really appreciate the time um absolutely I know you’re a busy guy and you probably have better things

To do but but I promise you this is going to do good um for the fraternity continuing to talk about this stuff and standing for what you stand for offering to help people it’s all U it’s all things on behalf of the brothers uh I would like to thank you for what you’re

Doing and the sacrifices you’re making for the fraternity it’s good stuff my my honor man it’s Masonic labor is to learn and teach others we’re not here for ourselves or we shouldn’t be uh I I want what people remember me for is not what they engraved on some Monument or a

Stone I went for what I left behind in other people um so that that’s that’s that’s my whole Mantra right duct as example leadership by example uh I wouldn’t expect anything else from anybody else so I’m I’m I’m honored to be here I’m honored to help um and and I

Do hope that this inspires other Masons to I think it will yeah thank you for coming on and hopefully we’ll have you again in the near future absolutely my brother I would love to come back you let know Sh

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